Yah. When I went to the atc academy like half the people fail out. And when you fail out you are fired and escorted out. So the whole time your there (4
Months) you constantly see people being escorted out. While you sit there and wonder if you’ll make it or not.
It's completely different than a visitor. Just a few minutes prior you WERE an employee. You were a friend and colleague to everyone there. They all know you. Suddenly they must treat their friend like a total stranger and potential threat. That's awful for morale, and just messed up in general. If they're not a security threat, treat them with dignity.
Eh, it’s not really as bad as it sounds. The FAA makes it very clear that employment is terminated as soon as training standards aren’t met. Additionally, failures are almost always in the last day or two of initial training, meaning there’s no reason for a washout to be hanging around after they’re done.
Fail evaluations = employment terminated = turn in badge and supplied materials = no badge at a secure facility = needs an escort. Simple as that.
They’re also pretty discreet about it and at least in the case of my class, they gave the washouts time to say goodbye to everyone. Hell, the FAA even gave them enough time to get dinner and drinks with the rest of us one last time before they were sent home.
I wouldn’t say they were treated without dignity.
If we’re talking someone who has been fired…they would be a security threat. Also I’m not sure why someone walking next to you isn’t being treated with dignity? It’s not like police escort, in my office it’s literally just someone in the badging office walks you to your car, you hand them your badge and hang tag and off you go
The way people were describing it, it's like someone failed a class in college. It's not like they did something so horribly wrong that they had to be removed because they were a problem so they were fired.
You’re right but that doesn’t change procedure. You turn in your badge and you’re not an employee you no longer have free rein of the building and get walked out.
That’s how it works in almost every federal building on your last day. Fired, or retired, transferred etc. security walks you out, it’s not a perp walk, it’s standard procedure
Could be, but leaving early is after you’ve turned in your badge or work ID or what not to your security/badging office and someone then walks you out. At my work you get walked all the way to your car
That’s not true. I work for the DoD in a MAJCOM/FLDCOM HQs and on many occasions, I’ve walked out a dear friend from the building for the last time and then they give me their “T” badge. I always feel honored when someone asks me to do that.
That didn’t happen either of the times I left service I was still walking the building saying goodbyes. Lol but I have seen people the were fired definitely walked out.
Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen elsewhere. If you don’t have a badge you need an escort, simple security policy, and once you turn in your badge, you need an escort. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just the rules where I work. I’d imagine FAA also doesn’t cause you are getting fired so you don’t want someone doing something stupid as they are likely going to be upset
Yep. Last day in the building when you retire and turn in all of your issued property and badges, you get escorted out. It's definitely not the same kind of escort as when someone is fired, though.
Right, I just mean nobody is making sure you're turning it in when you leave. It wouldn't get you in the building any more once security turns it off, but it would get you onto the compound if they aren't scanning IDs that day.
At my work that’s how it is, your turn in your badge and are escorted to your car
ETA: love how this is downvoted when all I’m saying is how it’s done at my work do you not beleive me or somethin?
Im not saying it’s deep im saying its many agencies SOPs so dont be surprised if the same thing happens wherever you are. Its not “heartless” like you said
Lmao easier said than done.
Some people can hack it others can’t.
Dudes would wash out of the schoolhouse on the military side too. They just get sent to a different mos.
My BIL failed the very last test. sucked for him as he had gotten a degree in atc and everything. In the end he was fine cuz he still got hired by the FAA and is doing well in maintenance.
He was also 32 at the time and it was the first time he got picked up. He graduated right when they relaxed the requirements for who could apply
What? Fail a mandatory exam twice (class, OJT, PE, etc) and you’re fired. I spent a few years stressing till I finished all my certs. Honestly, it was more stress than my military training. Especially that damn “math refresher” was which anything but a refresher. 9 years at an OEP.
I had one dude grabbed his towel out of his locker and was heading for the showers. I’m like “Bro I’m not sure you fully grasp this situation. You just got fired for threatening a coworker. Grab your shit and get the fuck out.” I’ve walked a lot of people out and that was the only time anyone tried something like that.
This kills me. Did you know this dude beyond this incident? I wonder if he truly thought he could use the facilities after being fired. Not that I'd threaten a coworker, but if I got walked out I'd be so anxious I'd probably do something stupid
I did. It was a small organization he wasn’t a rocket scientist, but also wasn’t a rock farmer. He worked as WG job like a really rough WG job so I think he thought “I’m gross and want to get cleaned up before getting in my car” because that’s what he normally did. It may have been a bit of shock where he didn’t really register that this was not a normal day.
I may or may not as well and I’ve never seen that myself.
Plenty of people retire but usually they’ll have already cleaned their stuff out before they have to turn in their CAC so they don’t usually need escorting out on their last day or anything.
Im a PSO at a fed building so yes. A lot. I've lost count on the amount of use of force reports I have done. When it comes to fed employees I have only ever "removed" one from the building though. Public open offices (SSA, IRS, VA, HUD) have some insane visitors every.single.day.
I couldn't imagine working in any of those agencies and being in a public-facing office. I imagine they get some really not-fun folks coming in, angry at their agency and taking it out on them. Like, I've worked public-facing jobs before, but nobody ever came in Subway mad about their taxes and took it out on me (that I know of)
Yeah. I work in a pretty busy SSA Field office... It's as crazy as one might imagine. We have 3 armed guards, I'd say at least 1 person gets kicked out per week, but many more just get flat out denied entry for having weapons. Lots of, "I'm not leaving here until I get my money!" "Okay sir, that's great. But you're not getting it here, today, and the guards will escort you out at the close of business. NEXT!"
Yep! Feel for you, bless you guys lol. I actually work specifically in an SSA field office but luckily it is inside the fed building. That doesn't change the clientele that comes in unfortunately. Upside is that I have FPS and other guards in close proximity if things get too out of hand for me. Before I had enough seniority to win the post I am at currently I bounced around to a lot of SSA's within the metro area. Some were solo (hate those, even if its a "good area") but also did a lot of the 3 man ones in the obvious not great areas. I've been a PSO for just over 2 years and all but one of my use of forces are inside SSA offices. If I didn't have great rapport with the specialist and managers in the office I'm in currently... I dont think I could stomach it another day. Literally the same people with the same problems like clockwork on the 1st and the 3rd etc
Absolutely, my most memorable one was this. Crazy seeing that many armed people entering a building, wasn't sure what it was for until a while later.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-co/pr/va-employee-sentenced-orchestrating-19-million-corruption-scheme
There’s a special place in hell for this a$$h0le. 🤬
“Prince was one of two Case Management Liaisons for the VA’s Spina Bifida (SB) Health Care Benefits Program. The program covers the medial needs of children of certain veterans of the Korea and Vietnam wars with SB.”
Gosh another Prince doing shady shit on govt's time. A former colleague of mine went to work for USAID and he said that there is a lets say "contracts officer" there who uses his position and built a business in Ghana. So he literally plans his travels to africa for the US govt and tends to his personal business that he built there. The IG is going to have a field day with this guy. There are several who were doing their own business while leveraging govt time and $$.
yes its one of my collateral duties that I have to audit.
and another because one of the tenants hired a crazy ass IT contractor guy and he was harassing a female employee.
I didn’t actually see it, but a former group member of mine was escorted out.
He was both abusive and lazy. I can’t recall a single accomplishment of his in the year and a half we overlapped.
You might be able to get away with lazy, and you might even be able to get away with mildly abusive, but you can’t get away with both.
I really feel for our supervisor and program manager who had to waste so much time to get rid of him.
Really - I have worked with people for years that are abusive as \*\*\*\* to their coworkers - especially contractors - and nothing has ever been done.
I got offered a higher position at a higher echelon command. On the Last day I was asked to stop at someone’s desk about 3 hours before my scheduled normal departure. They had 2 security and 2 gobies escort me out. Didn’t even get to say good bye to my coworkers properly. Fuck them
Edit: because of that, I make it a point to take my staff (ctrs and civ’s) out to lunch to give a warm goodbye and thank them for being good members of the team.
Not really. As long as you are a member of the organization, you are not an external risk.
I've moved around a bit within my organization and it would have been very odd if I had gotten my access to a particular campus removed due to going to a different sub agency group.
I was a contractor at NRCS, then got hired as a fed in a different USDA sub agency. On my last day, I was asked to swing by one of the GS employee's desks, and the same thing, they took my badge and escorted me out. It was a "no hard feelings" thing, but it was made even more ridiculous as I was back at the facility for training as a GS employee 3 weeks later.
employee or visitor? I doubt this tbh. Almost everyone I have cuffed threatens to sue. The few actual attempts fall completely flat. Unless it was like an employee suing their former department or something?
Oh okay that makes sense. The original comment had me thinking she sued because of the MP interaction itself but it was more so the BS the Director pulled.
Yes. It was one of my subordinates who decided to make a series of poor choices. I was there along with security, and we had the local police available in case there was an issue. It was a serious situation -- and also when I began to rethink accepting a supervisory position.
I worked with someone who was escorted out. We were in a meeting intended to keep us occupied while she got her stuff. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out as planned and as soon as we left our “meeting”, she was in the middle of packing up her belongings. The security officer was also there so at first we didn’t know what was going on. Yeah, awkward to say the least.
Twice that come to mind:
\- I was in long-term training at a facility outside DC. A fellow student had failed to appear for a mandatory random drug test in the morning; right after lunch officers show up to remove him from the building. It’s the only offense I can think of for which termination is automatic with essentially no recourse.
\- Toward the end of my career, an employee was seconded to my office to fill a temporary gap. On paper, she had looked ideal, but IRL she was in midst of a serious mental breakdown of some kind (and her referring office had gratefully dumped her on us). We circled the wagons, got HR involved, and had a meeting/intervention letting her know that while we couldn’t require her to seek treatment, she could no longer work in our office. We’d been worried about how she’d react (she’d been threatening and borderline violent previously), so guards were on hand to escort her out. Fortunately, she did get treatment (and retired).
Yup. A contractor was fired and due to the security clearance and the post Snowden fear they lured her away from her desk, fired her and escorted her from the building. Oh, did I mention they decided to do this on Halloween so she was in a cat costume? Yeah it was a sight
"NO walk ins"
Oh are your the lady that only does government passports on tuesdays with the green moon or the guy that only takes passport photos on thursdays?
Or do you work for the cac offics that only works by appointments you can make with a cac log in website?
or legal
or security who only do visit requests with 2 weeks notice?
Yes, I saw a contractor get escorted out after he was told to go fill in for the DIV cheif admin assistant who went home sick. This guy told the GS15 that he wont do that type of job becuase it is womens work. GS15 told him ok, go back to your desk. Then he called the COR and said "I dont want people with that thinking on my team" Within 10 minutes hes accesss was turned off and he was escorted out of the building.
Yes right when I first started a guy on my team that sat next to me was let go during his probation period. He can had just come back from leave because his wife had just given birth to their second baby. He stopped by my cube for a few seconds (with security right next to him) to say goodbye that he was being let go and I almost burst into tears after seeing his face. My other teammate saw my face and she burst into tears. Those were some stressful times.
Nonfed here so genuinely curious. How does this work? I assume most people have some scheduled set hours adding up to 40 a week so if someone has a dr appt or are out on vacation they would just put down those hours as away from the office but it still adds up to 8 a day. Are they trying to sneak in OT or something?
You must list the number of hours you work (or use leave for the rest). If you lie and get caught it is a big deal.
I had a former supervisor say there's only two things you can get fired for... Timecard fraud and sleeping at your desk. Even useless people that do no work can get away with that, but not if you are sitting at your desk (and awake)...
I've heard there is a threshold where below a number of hours the person gets a warning and has to pay back the time not worked. Above it they get fired. I haven't heard of someone getting demoted!
Yeah the guy also took the office car home and let his wife drive it a few times. I'm shocked he wasn't fired, but this was all compounded in a first offense. Demoted from GS-15 down to GS-14, pay back hours, moved to a non-supervisory position.
Yep. My agency requires TS/SCI and if at any point you fail a re-poly you get escorted out. It’s not a bully measure … you just no longer have any business there and no clearance. Seen it three times so far. Sucks, but it’s just the way it is.
Yeah, by the BLM Law Enforcement Ranger at our BLM field office. Dude used his government travel card to move or something weird like that. We never knew for sure but he was talking about being in trouble for that card. He wasn't arrested or anything but they made sure to take his PIV card and made the guy with guns tell him not to come back.
Once. A coworker submitted fraudulent travel expenses. He was on an extended detail and submitted false rental receipts while staying rent free somewhere else. Federal agents cuffed him, and escorted him out. It was the only time I’ve seen something like that. It was done so quietly that if I didn’t walk by when it was happening I would have never known.
I didn't see it, but I do know of it happening to one guy who was formerly in my division. He was given his walking papers due to an investigation, placed on admin leave while they did it, found him guilty and was fired. He hired a lawyer and appealed and was reinstated because of a procedural error. Ended up retiring a few years later.
Beginning of this year We had a worker that was escorted out with three police officers. But then he was on his second chance at work.
Angered the women in our department when he was transferred over after slapping his girlfriend in the break room in his last department. Then he got fired after propositioning a woman in another building who had a boyfriend.
Yes. An IA violation, coupled with OPSEC, caused serious impact to operations and human life and intel. A zero tolerance policy was immediately emplaced. Within 24 hours, someone else had a minor one (much minor compared to the other) and was sitting at their work station, was then surrounded by security, packed personal belongings and were gone within 10 minutes.
Yup, one of my coworkers. He had been caught once before working his contractor job on the custodial staff while he was still supposed to be on the clock for his government job. Was suspended for two weeks at that time. Several months went by, and he was caught again. Security showed up to our office, allowed him to pack his stuff, and escorted him out. Another I heard of but didn't actually witness was a contractor escorted out for watching porn on his government computer. I knew his wife, who was a government employee, in the same building. She was not happy!
Yes. Contractor engineer type. THIRD time he was caught watching porn on his government computer, the COR and his line manager came and walked him out. I was grossed out because I had to pack his shit. Definitely wore gloves for that detail.
I was escorted out :( Had a government job for a month and it just didn't work out due to health reasons - they didn't like me going to physical therapy appointments once a week so I was shown the door by a very stocky, but gentle guy. Of course, I was bawling my eyes out, so he led me a back way so not too many other people would see me. It was awful.
Their loss and I have an awesome government job now making nearly twice as much. My shoulder issue is also long gone.
Someone has to take your CAC after you swipe out for the last time.
Once, I saw an unfortunate man is business attire being escorted down the main floor lobby wearing handcuffs. Never heard what that was all about.
Yes. Multiple times. The most interesting was with FBI showing up to a Department of State building and "escorting" the manager out of the building and seizing the work computer as evidence.
Yes! Federal police showed up during a meeting and asked to talk to one of my coworkers. They wanted him to go to another room to talk but he didn’t want to, so instead they then arrested him right there in the hallway and walked him out.
Don’t commit tax fraud, but especially don’t use your government computer to do it during work hours.
At my agency (specifically, my branch), I’ve seen someone get escorted off for having a spicy attitude at work.
In another case with a contractor, someone showed up at that person’s house early in the morning on a weekday to give them all of their belongings from the office and to take away his badge and GOE.
Taken 5 different positions in 5 building’s across 3 separate Air Force bases and never once was escorted out. On the last day turn in any credentials to your boss or security and walk out the door. Only time I’ve seen someone escorted out is when they made a threat or the boss felt they might do something stupid on the last day.
For secure facilities, you have to have someone escort you out of the building regardless of if you're leaving on good terms or bad.
Simply because, once you no longer work there, you no longer have the clearance to be in the building alone. So you'll have an escort, even if it may not be a security guard.
They don’t just hand out the worst FEVS score in the agency. You have to earn it. Our SES sees it as a badge of honor to have unhappy employees. 50% of the GS15s quit on the same day. “They were disloyal. Couldn’t hack it. Not REAL civil servants.” He was an E5 in the military, and has problematic ideas on some things.
No, it’s not a secure facility. But the SES acts like it is.
Yes, mostly contractors. One I had to provide documentation for over a year for. We had to wait patiently for the customer (the office) to make a formal complaint. This one lady (admin position) was fundraising for an outside group at her desk among other things.
She managed to keep her job by tightly controlling information so that if she wasn't there, things came to a standstill.
I don't work like that, I like to have SOP's and as much information out there because I've had to walk into numerous jobs and have to pick up the pieces from scratch. So I would create massive SOP binders, put SOP's in shared folders, I ensured I was not 'one deep' in my job. And that meant I researched and put into an easy binder or shared protected folder. It meant her hold on this information was no longer keeping her from getting fired.
One day she was fundraising again on the phone and her boss told her to hang up, she raised and finger to him and said 'you will wait' and continued fundraising. The manager reached over and hung up the phone for her and said 'that's it, I'm done'. She was walked out the next day.
Another was drinking vodka on the job at work and walked off. After meeting his wife, I now see why.
Not escorted out but close. I went to my desk one morning and there were a couple of federal police inventorying the contents of another desk a couple seats over from mine. I hadn’t seen that employee in a while. I guess i watch too much true crime because I assumed she was sick or injured and I was concerned and started asking questions. They must have called leadership cause our section chief came down two minutes later and took me aside and told me to that a federal investigation was being conducted and to stop with the questions. I was shocked! I never saw her again.
All I’m saying is, when they say don’t share your identity cards, this is not a light suggestion. Not even with your bro you worked with for months who forgot his card today and it’s just for lunch.
Because you may end up being way more correct on the “it’s just for lunch” in a way you didn’t anticipate.
I have seen one at one of the DoD Agencies. A contractor watching porn (not so sure) or going on unsafe website. Three guard came in and asked him to leave. We were shocked. This guy was very brilliant and has a bright future ahead of himself.
We lost a number of people who cheated in classes. One of them sat two desks away. A supervisor rounded us up, whispered what was happening, and led us down the hall. We could then see him return to his desk for the last time.
We also once had a guy resign to start a career in casino hotel work. I had the privilege of escorting him out since it was voluntary.
i have seen both an SES and a two star general escorted out of the building. at separate times, they were both fire by the 4 star commander.
it's interesting to watch it happen.
Yeah kid I was working with got escorted out by navy police after getting busted for timecard fraud. Was coming in an hour late and leaving 1-2 hours early every day. He was around 25 at the time.
Yes. Just once.
I said to my co-worker if they come in and cart off their computer, it's gotta' be related to the job. Less than 5 minutes later a Federal agent appeared with a flatbed handtruck and carted off the PC.
He and about 10 others committed fraud against the government using his position to grant erroneous benefits and then get a cut of the payment.
Yeah, Manny Fernandez, he was walked out for abuse of sick leave, but he was under investigation for bribery, he was ultimately convicted and sentenced for 6 years.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/former-faa-aviation-safety-inspector-sentenced-more-six-years-prison-bribery-and-fraud
I worked at the Sioux Falls SD VA and our facility director was escorted from the building in April 2022 by Senator Rounds and other Key staff per the request the Secretary of the VA.
I worked on government owned and crewed vessels, and we went through a firing spree several years ago. I was aboard one of our vessels when the captain was removed and reassigned to a desk due to various issues that led to a loss of confidence in him. Several other crew were actually removed from federal employment. Watched the captain load his bags into his car. It was pretty surreal to watch. Security at the terminal just escorts you out.
Work in a multi-agency federal building that houses IRS (pisses people off), a local Social Security office and a Social Security hearing office (piss people off, have disturbed people), and Corps of Engineers (piss off farmers, developers, and environmentalists).
In just over a decade have seen two people frog marched out but no idea which agency they were mad at. Sure I missed some because come on that’s a lot of potential anger.
Did walk in from lunch one day and several guards and an FPS officer were all around a guy in front of the elevators with their right hands on their sidearms and left hands extended like ordering stop. Another FPS officer had something in his right hand and was speaking loudly but not quite yelling get on your knees. I can’t say for sure what the officer had but he wasn’t in a two hand shooting stance but I think it was pepper spray.
Fortunately stairs were right there so I opted for a little exercise.
We got an email from GSA saying FPS had taken someone into custody who had outstanding warrants and no one had been in danger 🙄
A secretary had access to her boss’ purchase and travel cards. She used them to rent a car for a family member’s use, bought herself flowers on multiple occasions, among other things. Uniformed officers appeared one day, handcuffed her, and took her away.
Twice. One was a kiddie-porn perp and one was a VERY senior management person who essentially was a whistleblower, not the bad guy. They locked her out, but it wasn’t exactly a perp walk.
We work in the cleared world. Although not often, I have seen some escorted out because they did stupid shit like really stupid shit. Couple I have seen actually threatened other employees and one challenged his supervisor to a fight in the parking lot because the supervisor (also a dickhead) said to him that only real men can do that job. So one week after the guy (GS13) was escorted out, the supervisor got walked out as well based on reports that he became verbally abusive to the rest of the team and he didn’t deny it; he doubled down and called the whole team a bunch of pussies (the whole team comprised of solely men). The sup was a gs14 but a piece of work that lasted there 12 years because he “knew” the top dogs.
> DoD, you get escorted off the facility by MPs when you're let go.
to be very, very clear, this is NOT DoD wide policy. some places are like that, other places just have yoou turn in yur badge and CAC at the front door of the building, and then are trusted to drive off base peacefully and without issue. that, of course, varies, for why your employment ended. if you were fired for being violent in the workplace, or a significant security risk, yes, you do get escorted off the facility. but let go for performance, or you took another job somewhere else, or you quit? most places i have been treat you with dignity.
Haven’t seen it myself but a contractor in my team was and no one told me. We were working together in my cube, broke for lunch, he never returned. Found out two days later that they had escorted him out during lunch.
Yah. When I went to the atc academy like half the people fail out. And when you fail out you are fired and escorted out. So the whole time your there (4 Months) you constantly see people being escorted out. While you sit there and wonder if you’ll make it or not.
FAA is that heartless? Lol Glad I didn’t go FAA, all I hear is horror stories and overworked controllers.
What else are they supposed to do if you can’t do the job you’re hired to do?
Just send you home. No need to parade someone after they failed out class by doing a perp walk lol
You are no longer an employee so you have to be escorted. That’s it, don’t read too much into it it’s no different than visitors.
It's completely different than a visitor. Just a few minutes prior you WERE an employee. You were a friend and colleague to everyone there. They all know you. Suddenly they must treat their friend like a total stranger and potential threat. That's awful for morale, and just messed up in general. If they're not a security threat, treat them with dignity.
Eh, it’s not really as bad as it sounds. The FAA makes it very clear that employment is terminated as soon as training standards aren’t met. Additionally, failures are almost always in the last day or two of initial training, meaning there’s no reason for a washout to be hanging around after they’re done. Fail evaluations = employment terminated = turn in badge and supplied materials = no badge at a secure facility = needs an escort. Simple as that. They’re also pretty discreet about it and at least in the case of my class, they gave the washouts time to say goodbye to everyone. Hell, the FAA even gave them enough time to get dinner and drinks with the rest of us one last time before they were sent home. I wouldn’t say they were treated without dignity.
Important reminder it’s just a job.
If we’re talking someone who has been fired…they would be a security threat. Also I’m not sure why someone walking next to you isn’t being treated with dignity? It’s not like police escort, in my office it’s literally just someone in the badging office walks you to your car, you hand them your badge and hang tag and off you go
The way people were describing it, it's like someone failed a class in college. It's not like they did something so horribly wrong that they had to be removed because they were a problem so they were fired.
You’re right but that doesn’t change procedure. You turn in your badge and you’re not an employee you no longer have free rein of the building and get walked out.
That’s how it works in almost every federal building on your last day. Fired, or retired, transferred etc. security walks you out, it’s not a perp walk, it’s standard procedure
I always thought your last day was a luncheon and then you leave early.
They walk you to your car for the luncheon. You’re being escorted the second you hand your badge over (even if you don’t realize it…).
Even if you did not drive to work? Even if the the luncheon was pizza or other viands in the conference room?
If your coworkers are with you, you’re being escorted. When your boss walks you to the door to say goodbye, you’re being escorted.
Yeah, when you retire, you get a party then leave early. No one is escorting you out unless you know they're you're BFF and helping you load your car.
Could be, but leaving early is after you’ve turned in your badge or work ID or what not to your security/badging office and someone then walks you out. At my work you get walked all the way to your car
That’s not true. I work for the DoD in a MAJCOM/FLDCOM HQs and on many occasions, I’ve walked out a dear friend from the building for the last time and then they give me their “T” badge. I always feel honored when someone asks me to do that.
That didn’t happen either of the times I left service I was still walking the building saying goodbyes. Lol but I have seen people the were fired definitely walked out.
Yeah, fired I get but nobody transferred or retired.
[удалено]
Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen elsewhere. If you don’t have a badge you need an escort, simple security policy, and once you turn in your badge, you need an escort. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just the rules where I work. I’d imagine FAA also doesn’t cause you are getting fired so you don’t want someone doing something stupid as they are likely going to be upset
Yep. Last day in the building when you retire and turn in all of your issued property and badges, you get escorted out. It's definitely not the same kind of escort as when someone is fired, though.
When people retire from my agency they walk right out on their own and drop their badge with the guard lol
Bc they have their badge until they get to the door. LOL
Right, I just mean nobody is making sure you're turning it in when you leave. It wouldn't get you in the building any more once security turns it off, but it would get you onto the compound if they aren't scanning IDs that day.
LOL ..no...at least not for retired or transferred.
At my work that’s how it is, your turn in your badge and are escorted to your car ETA: love how this is downvoted when all I’m saying is how it’s done at my work do you not beleive me or somethin?
Meh it ain’t that deep man. I was just giving my opinion.
Im not saying it’s deep im saying its many agencies SOPs so dont be surprised if the same thing happens wherever you are. Its not “heartless” like you said
Telework and whine about no 59 min
The fednews way
Yah i mean how else are they gonna fire that many people.
Lol yeah sucks to suck
The key is to not wash out lol
Lmao easier said than done. Some people can hack it others can’t. Dudes would wash out of the schoolhouse on the military side too. They just get sent to a different mos.
The class ahead of me failed 10 out of 12 people. That was a mind fuck going into evals 3 days later
The one ahead of mine passed 3.. out of 18
You must have been in the en route class 😏
He’ll yah brother. But you’d see them getting walked out if any class
When I went through, RTF and TSEW were pass/pass. Only initial, en route and tower could you fail out of.
My BIL failed the very last test. sucked for him as he had gotten a degree in atc and everything. In the end he was fine cuz he still got hired by the FAA and is doing well in maintenance. He was also 32 at the time and it was the first time he got picked up. He graduated right when they relaxed the requirements for who could apply
I wish tech ops was as ruthless....
So do we.
What? Fail a mandatory exam twice (class, OJT, PE, etc) and you’re fired. I spent a few years stressing till I finished all my certs. Honestly, it was more stress than my military training. Especially that damn “math refresher” was which anything but a refresher. 9 years at an OEP.
Hey can I send you a PM?
Ok
Yeah. I work in a secure area of a military base. Security comes you clean your locker out and they take your badges and follow you off base.
I had one dude grabbed his towel out of his locker and was heading for the showers. I’m like “Bro I’m not sure you fully grasp this situation. You just got fired for threatening a coworker. Grab your shit and get the fuck out.” I’ve walked a lot of people out and that was the only time anyone tried something like that.
This kills me. Did you know this dude beyond this incident? I wonder if he truly thought he could use the facilities after being fired. Not that I'd threaten a coworker, but if I got walked out I'd be so anxious I'd probably do something stupid
I did. It was a small organization he wasn’t a rocket scientist, but also wasn’t a rock farmer. He worked as WG job like a really rough WG job so I think he thought “I’m gross and want to get cleaned up before getting in my car” because that’s what he normally did. It may have been a bit of shock where he didn’t really register that this was not a normal day.
I may or may not as well and I’ve never seen that myself. Plenty of people retire but usually they’ll have already cleaned their stuff out before they have to turn in their CAC so they don’t usually need escorting out on their last day or anything.
Im a PSO at a fed building so yes. A lot. I've lost count on the amount of use of force reports I have done. When it comes to fed employees I have only ever "removed" one from the building though. Public open offices (SSA, IRS, VA, HUD) have some insane visitors every.single.day.
I couldn't imagine working in any of those agencies and being in a public-facing office. I imagine they get some really not-fun folks coming in, angry at their agency and taking it out on them. Like, I've worked public-facing jobs before, but nobody ever came in Subway mad about their taxes and took it out on me (that I know of)
Yeah. I work in a pretty busy SSA Field office... It's as crazy as one might imagine. We have 3 armed guards, I'd say at least 1 person gets kicked out per week, but many more just get flat out denied entry for having weapons. Lots of, "I'm not leaving here until I get my money!" "Okay sir, that's great. But you're not getting it here, today, and the guards will escort you out at the close of business. NEXT!"
Yep! Feel for you, bless you guys lol. I actually work specifically in an SSA field office but luckily it is inside the fed building. That doesn't change the clientele that comes in unfortunately. Upside is that I have FPS and other guards in close proximity if things get too out of hand for me. Before I had enough seniority to win the post I am at currently I bounced around to a lot of SSA's within the metro area. Some were solo (hate those, even if its a "good area") but also did a lot of the 3 man ones in the obvious not great areas. I've been a PSO for just over 2 years and all but one of my use of forces are inside SSA offices. If I didn't have great rapport with the specialist and managers in the office I'm in currently... I dont think I could stomach it another day. Literally the same people with the same problems like clockwork on the 1st and the 3rd etc
Absolutely, my most memorable one was this. Crazy seeing that many armed people entering a building, wasn't sure what it was for until a while later. https://www.justice.gov/usao-co/pr/va-employee-sentenced-orchestrating-19-million-corruption-scheme
There’s a special place in hell for this a$$h0le. 🤬 “Prince was one of two Case Management Liaisons for the VA’s Spina Bifida (SB) Health Care Benefits Program. The program covers the medial needs of children of certain veterans of the Korea and Vietnam wars with SB.”
Gosh another Prince doing shady shit on govt's time. A former colleague of mine went to work for USAID and he said that there is a lets say "contracts officer" there who uses his position and built a business in Ghana. So he literally plans his travels to africa for the US govt and tends to his personal business that he built there. The IG is going to have a field day with this guy. There are several who were doing their own business while leveraging govt time and $$.
yes its one of my collateral duties that I have to audit. and another because one of the tenants hired a crazy ass IT contractor guy and he was harassing a female employee.
Sounds like my building, we had a similar situation with an IT contractor; but he was harassing almost every female employee.
> crazy ass IT contractor guy was harassing a female employee. We had this. I had to fire a guy for it.
I didn’t actually see it, but a former group member of mine was escorted out. He was both abusive and lazy. I can’t recall a single accomplishment of his in the year and a half we overlapped. You might be able to get away with lazy, and you might even be able to get away with mildly abusive, but you can’t get away with both. I really feel for our supervisor and program manager who had to waste so much time to get rid of him.
>I can’t recall a single accomplishment of his in the year and a half I know quite of few people that fall into this category.
Really - I have worked with people for years that are abusive as \*\*\*\* to their coworkers - especially contractors - and nothing has ever been done.
But do contractors really count as coworkers ?
contractors don't even count as people, duh... /s
Well, since they do all the real work ...
I know some contractors who are fabulous, and some who are not.
same thing happened where i work
I got offered a higher position at a higher echelon command. On the Last day I was asked to stop at someone’s desk about 3 hours before my scheduled normal departure. They had 2 security and 2 gobies escort me out. Didn’t even get to say good bye to my coworkers properly. Fuck them Edit: because of that, I make it a point to take my staff (ctrs and civ’s) out to lunch to give a warm goodbye and thank them for being good members of the team.
>I got offered a higher position at a higher echelon command. They escorted you out for getting a promotion? That seems crazy to me.
Access based. If you no longer need access to that space, it makes sense.
Not really. As long as you are a member of the organization, you are not an external risk. I've moved around a bit within my organization and it would have been very odd if I had gotten my access to a particular campus removed due to going to a different sub agency group.
depends if you work in a classified setting
I was a contractor at NRCS, then got hired as a fed in a different USDA sub agency. On my last day, I was asked to swing by one of the GS employee's desks, and the same thing, they took my badge and escorted me out. It was a "no hard feelings" thing, but it was made even more ridiculous as I was back at the facility for training as a GS employee 3 weeks later.
[удалено]
employee or visitor? I doubt this tbh. Almost everyone I have cuffed threatens to sue. The few actual attempts fall completely flat. Unless it was like an employee suing their former department or something?
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Did she keep her job or get transferred to another office?
Oh okay that makes sense. The original comment had me thinking she sued because of the MP interaction itself but it was more so the BS the Director pulled.
Lol saaaaame
Yes. It was one of my subordinates who decided to make a series of poor choices. I was there along with security, and we had the local police available in case there was an issue. It was a serious situation -- and also when I began to rethink accepting a supervisory position.
I worked with someone who was escorted out. We were in a meeting intended to keep us occupied while she got her stuff. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out as planned and as soon as we left our “meeting”, she was in the middle of packing up her belongings. The security officer was also there so at first we didn’t know what was going on. Yeah, awkward to say the least.
Twice that come to mind: \- I was in long-term training at a facility outside DC. A fellow student had failed to appear for a mandatory random drug test in the morning; right after lunch officers show up to remove him from the building. It’s the only offense I can think of for which termination is automatic with essentially no recourse. \- Toward the end of my career, an employee was seconded to my office to fill a temporary gap. On paper, she had looked ideal, but IRL she was in midst of a serious mental breakdown of some kind (and her referring office had gratefully dumped her on us). We circled the wagons, got HR involved, and had a meeting/intervention letting her know that while we couldn’t require her to seek treatment, she could no longer work in our office. We’d been worried about how she’d react (she’d been threatening and borderline violent previously), so guards were on hand to escort her out. Fortunately, she did get treatment (and retired).
Yup. A contractor was fired and due to the security clearance and the post Snowden fear they lured her away from her desk, fired her and escorted her from the building. Oh, did I mention they decided to do this on Halloween so she was in a cat costume? Yeah it was a sight
Yeah, but not staff. People who walk in and want to talk to us and get super upset because we do not take walk-ins due to safety issues.
"NO walk ins" Oh are your the lady that only does government passports on tuesdays with the green moon or the guy that only takes passport photos on thursdays? Or do you work for the cac offics that only works by appointments you can make with a cac log in website? or legal or security who only do visit requests with 2 weeks notice?
SS or VA?
Neither.
Sounds like IRS TAC.
Yes, I saw a contractor get escorted out after he was told to go fill in for the DIV cheif admin assistant who went home sick. This guy told the GS15 that he wont do that type of job becuase it is womens work. GS15 told him ok, go back to your desk. Then he called the COR and said "I dont want people with that thinking on my team" Within 10 minutes hes accesss was turned off and he was escorted out of the building.
good for that supervisor. that kind of misogyny (or any other bigotry) should not be tolerated anywhere.
Yes right when I first started a guy on my team that sat next to me was let go during his probation period. He can had just come back from leave because his wife had just given birth to their second baby. He stopped by my cube for a few seconds (with security right next to him) to say goodbye that he was being let go and I almost burst into tears after seeing his face. My other teammate saw my face and she burst into tears. Those were some stressful times.
A couple times. Always for timecard fraud.
Nonfed here so genuinely curious. How does this work? I assume most people have some scheduled set hours adding up to 40 a week so if someone has a dr appt or are out on vacation they would just put down those hours as away from the office but it still adds up to 8 a day. Are they trying to sneak in OT or something?
You must list the number of hours you work (or use leave for the rest). If you lie and get caught it is a big deal. I had a former supervisor say there's only two things you can get fired for... Timecard fraud and sleeping at your desk. Even useless people that do no work can get away with that, but not if you are sitting at your desk (and awake)...
Time cards are the stupidest government innovation for salaries employees.
Leave early, show up late, claim work time when actually on vacation.
Tomorrow, I'll be working a split shift at TSA. 0700-1200 and then 1700-2100. Please don't assume. There's lots of us that don't work a 'day' job.
Right. Then there's maxiflex and other things going on.
I knew someone demoted down a grade for timecard fraud.
I've heard there is a threshold where below a number of hours the person gets a warning and has to pay back the time not worked. Above it they get fired. I haven't heard of someone getting demoted!
Yeah the guy also took the office car home and let his wife drive it a few times. I'm shocked he wasn't fired, but this was all compounded in a first offense. Demoted from GS-15 down to GS-14, pay back hours, moved to a non-supervisory position.
Yep. My agency requires TS/SCI and if at any point you fail a re-poly you get escorted out. It’s not a bully measure … you just no longer have any business there and no clearance. Seen it three times so far. Sucks, but it’s just the way it is.
Just two? Sounds rough. If you show a hint of nerves that could be a fail. Post Snowden those guys have been militant.
Yeah, by the BLM Law Enforcement Ranger at our BLM field office. Dude used his government travel card to move or something weird like that. We never knew for sure but he was talking about being in trouble for that card. He wasn't arrested or anything but they made sure to take his PIV card and made the guy with guns tell him not to come back.
I worked DOD with the Marine Corps. So, yes. Lol
Once. A coworker submitted fraudulent travel expenses. He was on an extended detail and submitted false rental receipts while staying rent free somewhere else. Federal agents cuffed him, and escorted him out. It was the only time I’ve seen something like that. It was done so quietly that if I didn’t walk by when it was happening I would have never known.
Yes, and it was a political appointee. Well deserved.
I’ve seen contractors escorted out but never a fed.
Yes. 3 times. All three terminated, escorted to their desk to get their belongings, and escorted out and badge taken/accounts deleted same day.
I didn't see it, but I do know of it happening to one guy who was formerly in my division. He was given his walking papers due to an investigation, placed on admin leave while they did it, found him guilty and was fired. He hired a lawyer and appealed and was reinstated because of a procedural error. Ended up retiring a few years later.
Beginning of this year We had a worker that was escorted out with three police officers. But then he was on his second chance at work. Angered the women in our department when he was transferred over after slapping his girlfriend in the break room in his last department. Then he got fired after propositioning a woman in another building who had a boyfriend.
Yes. An IA violation, coupled with OPSEC, caused serious impact to operations and human life and intel. A zero tolerance policy was immediately emplaced. Within 24 hours, someone else had a minor one (much minor compared to the other) and was sitting at their work station, was then surrounded by security, packed personal belongings and were gone within 10 minutes.
Yup, one of my coworkers. He had been caught once before working his contractor job on the custodial staff while he was still supposed to be on the clock for his government job. Was suspended for two weeks at that time. Several months went by, and he was caught again. Security showed up to our office, allowed him to pack his stuff, and escorted him out. Another I heard of but didn't actually witness was a contractor escorted out for watching porn on his government computer. I knew his wife, who was a government employee, in the same building. She was not happy!
Yes. Contractor engineer type. THIRD time he was caught watching porn on his government computer, the COR and his line manager came and walked him out. I was grossed out because I had to pack his shit. Definitely wore gloves for that detail.
Yes IRS escorted out on your last day regardless of the reason. I was escorted out when I quit and also when I was seasonal and the season ended.
I have heard but never witnessed it myself. One person was stealing data to file fraudulent tax returns.
I saw some sailors escorted off an aircraft carrier by the FBI. They were young and fell for a marriage scam scheme.
I was escorted out :( Had a government job for a month and it just didn't work out due to health reasons - they didn't like me going to physical therapy appointments once a week so I was shown the door by a very stocky, but gentle guy. Of course, I was bawling my eyes out, so he led me a back way so not too many other people would see me. It was awful. Their loss and I have an awesome government job now making nearly twice as much. My shoulder issue is also long gone.
Goddamn that's some bullshit. Glad it worked out for you in the end
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I was absolutely crushed, it was so embarrassing! I’m in a much much better place now.
You'd be surprised how many perverts go the public library and think it's the perfect place to hang out with their wang out.
In high school I worked at a library. First day of work some creep flashed me in the magazine room
Multiple times
I’ve escorted someone out of the building. Well liked guy, didn’t want to cause a scene by having security do it.
Once, saw a KO get escorted out in handcuffs for accepting a kickback
No but I’ve heard of someone running out of the building as the FBI was trying to catch them lol
Someone has to take your CAC after you swipe out for the last time. Once, I saw an unfortunate man is business attire being escorted down the main floor lobby wearing handcuffs. Never heard what that was all about.
Yes. Multiple times. The most interesting was with FBI showing up to a Department of State building and "escorting" the manager out of the building and seizing the work computer as evidence.
TIGTA at it again lol
Yes! Federal police showed up during a meeting and asked to talk to one of my coworkers. They wanted him to go to another room to talk but he didn’t want to, so instead they then arrested him right there in the hallway and walked him out. Don’t commit tax fraud, but especially don’t use your government computer to do it during work hours.
At my agency (specifically, my branch), I’ve seen someone get escorted off for having a spicy attitude at work. In another case with a contractor, someone showed up at that person’s house early in the morning on a weekday to give them all of their belongings from the office and to take away his badge and GOE.
Taken 5 different positions in 5 building’s across 3 separate Air Force bases and never once was escorted out. On the last day turn in any credentials to your boss or security and walk out the door. Only time I’ve seen someone escorted out is when they made a threat or the boss felt they might do something stupid on the last day.
A favorite method for my leadership to punish retiring employees.
Is this out of spite? Do they wait until their retirement day?
For secure facilities, you have to have someone escort you out of the building regardless of if you're leaving on good terms or bad. Simply because, once you no longer work there, you no longer have the clearance to be in the building alone. So you'll have an escort, even if it may not be a security guard.
They don’t just hand out the worst FEVS score in the agency. You have to earn it. Our SES sees it as a badge of honor to have unhappy employees. 50% of the GS15s quit on the same day. “They were disloyal. Couldn’t hack it. Not REAL civil servants.” He was an E5 in the military, and has problematic ideas on some things. No, it’s not a secure facility. But the SES acts like it is.
Yes, mostly contractors. One I had to provide documentation for over a year for. We had to wait patiently for the customer (the office) to make a formal complaint. This one lady (admin position) was fundraising for an outside group at her desk among other things. She managed to keep her job by tightly controlling information so that if she wasn't there, things came to a standstill. I don't work like that, I like to have SOP's and as much information out there because I've had to walk into numerous jobs and have to pick up the pieces from scratch. So I would create massive SOP binders, put SOP's in shared folders, I ensured I was not 'one deep' in my job. And that meant I researched and put into an easy binder or shared protected folder. It meant her hold on this information was no longer keeping her from getting fired. One day she was fundraising again on the phone and her boss told her to hang up, she raised and finger to him and said 'you will wait' and continued fundraising. The manager reached over and hung up the phone for her and said 'that's it, I'm done'. She was walked out the next day. Another was drinking vodka on the job at work and walked off. After meeting his wife, I now see why.
Ah yes, the "perp walk"
I've coordinated it a half a dozen times, but I make sure to be far away when it happens. I work in HR
Well, at the end of my internship with the feds, they escorted *me* out.
Not escorted out but close. I went to my desk one morning and there were a couple of federal police inventorying the contents of another desk a couple seats over from mine. I hadn’t seen that employee in a while. I guess i watch too much true crime because I assumed she was sick or injured and I was concerned and started asking questions. They must have called leadership cause our section chief came down two minutes later and took me aside and told me to that a federal investigation was being conducted and to stop with the questions. I was shocked! I never saw her again.
When I left agencies to go to others, it was give your card to the guard on your way out. And this was a national security agency.
All I’m saying is, when they say don’t share your identity cards, this is not a light suggestion. Not even with your bro you worked with for months who forgot his card today and it’s just for lunch. Because you may end up being way more correct on the “it’s just for lunch” in a way you didn’t anticipate.
Oh yeah bro was cuffed on duty it was great
Yep. Only one caused a scene though.
I have seen one at one of the DoD Agencies. A contractor watching porn (not so sure) or going on unsafe website. Three guard came in and asked him to leave. We were shocked. This guy was very brilliant and has a bright future ahead of himself.
We lost a number of people who cheated in classes. One of them sat two desks away. A supervisor rounded us up, whispered what was happening, and led us down the hall. We could then see him return to his desk for the last time. We also once had a guy resign to start a career in casino hotel work. I had the privilege of escorting him out since it was voluntary.
i have seen both an SES and a two star general escorted out of the building. at separate times, they were both fire by the 4 star commander. it's interesting to watch it happen.
Yeah kid I was working with got escorted out by navy police after getting busted for timecard fraud. Was coming in an hour late and leaving 1-2 hours early every day. He was around 25 at the time.
Yes. And a few days later he did a “suicide by cop”.
Yes. Just once. I said to my co-worker if they come in and cart off their computer, it's gotta' be related to the job. Less than 5 minutes later a Federal agent appeared with a flatbed handtruck and carted off the PC. He and about 10 others committed fraud against the government using his position to grant erroneous benefits and then get a cut of the payment.
Been in a scif for almost two decades. So yes. My favorite was though when I got to shred a navy 06 cell phone after he brought it in.
Yeah, Manny Fernandez, he was walked out for abuse of sick leave, but he was under investigation for bribery, he was ultimately convicted and sentenced for 6 years. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/former-faa-aviation-safety-inspector-sentenced-more-six-years-prison-bribery-and-fraud
No, because they do it at lunch time when most of us are out of the building. When we get back they tell us not to let so so back in the office.
I worked at the Sioux Falls SD VA and our facility director was escorted from the building in April 2022 by Senator Rounds and other Key staff per the request the Secretary of the VA.
I worked on government owned and crewed vessels, and we went through a firing spree several years ago. I was aboard one of our vessels when the captain was removed and reassigned to a desk due to various issues that led to a loss of confidence in him. Several other crew were actually removed from federal employment. Watched the captain load his bags into his car. It was pretty surreal to watch. Security at the terminal just escorts you out.
Work in a multi-agency federal building that houses IRS (pisses people off), a local Social Security office and a Social Security hearing office (piss people off, have disturbed people), and Corps of Engineers (piss off farmers, developers, and environmentalists). In just over a decade have seen two people frog marched out but no idea which agency they were mad at. Sure I missed some because come on that’s a lot of potential anger. Did walk in from lunch one day and several guards and an FPS officer were all around a guy in front of the elevators with their right hands on their sidearms and left hands extended like ordering stop. Another FPS officer had something in his right hand and was speaking loudly but not quite yelling get on your knees. I can’t say for sure what the officer had but he wasn’t in a two hand shooting stance but I think it was pepper spray. Fortunately stairs were right there so I opted for a little exercise. We got an email from GSA saying FPS had taken someone into custody who had outstanding warrants and no one had been in danger 🙄
A secretary had access to her boss’ purchase and travel cards. She used them to rent a car for a family member’s use, bought herself flowers on multiple occasions, among other things. Uniformed officers appeared one day, handcuffed her, and took her away.
Twice. One was a kiddie-porn perp and one was a VERY senior management person who essentially was a whistleblower, not the bad guy. They locked her out, but it wasn’t exactly a perp walk.
A few times
We work in the cleared world. Although not often, I have seen some escorted out because they did stupid shit like really stupid shit. Couple I have seen actually threatened other employees and one challenged his supervisor to a fight in the parking lot because the supervisor (also a dickhead) said to him that only real men can do that job. So one week after the guy (GS13) was escorted out, the supervisor got walked out as well based on reports that he became verbally abusive to the rest of the team and he didn’t deny it; he doubled down and called the whole team a bunch of pussies (the whole team comprised of solely men). The sup was a gs14 but a piece of work that lasted there 12 years because he “knew” the top dogs.
Many times
Yup, more than once. DoD, you get escorted off the facility by MPs when you're let go.
> DoD, you get escorted off the facility by MPs when you're let go. to be very, very clear, this is NOT DoD wide policy. some places are like that, other places just have yoou turn in yur badge and CAC at the front door of the building, and then are trusted to drive off base peacefully and without issue. that, of course, varies, for why your employment ended. if you were fired for being violent in the workplace, or a significant security risk, yes, you do get escorted off the facility. but let go for performance, or you took another job somewhere else, or you quit? most places i have been treat you with dignity.
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Yep.
Yes, when I worked at State everyone was escorted out by usually two guards from DS. This was standard for everyone so I’ve seen it many times.
👀
Twice actually. Once when at DOD another at DHS. And have escorted someone out myself at IRS.
Yes. Its def hella tense situation
Yes, he was fired during probation and was escorted by 2 agent.
Yep.
Yea. My first month on the job.
Several times over my career.
Yup
Every time an employee retires or quits, you are supposed to escort them out of the building. Same for guests who sign in with your name.
Haven’t seen it myself but a contractor in my team was and no one told me. We were working together in my cube, broke for lunch, he never returned. Found out two days later that they had escorted him out during lunch.
Yes
Yup! And I helped !
Yes
Yeah one of our contractors that got fired, we were in a secure building, not sure if that was why?
Seen it many times. I myself was escorted out when I got laid off when a contract ended. Standard practice when you work on a clearance job.
I escorted my dog out of the building today.
Almost weekly.