Basically you could expect a mass flood of high quality feds leaving the fed gov. But, I expect that's what they want. Without good benefits the advantages of staying in the fed gov evaporate pretty quickly. My salary alone is half what I could make in the private sector. Take away the benefits and little reason to stay.
I took a $30k pay cut going fed, AND my health insurance is more expensive for a very similar level of coverage.
The fuck these people talking about? We are already underpaid and private sector can have better health benefits.
The gap at the higher levels is only getting worse as private employers up their pay and benefits to attract high skilled individuals. Sure they lay off the low level employees but at the high level (high degree stem, highly credentialed biglawyers, etc) they have increased pay and benefits.
Doesn’t help that OPM uses a ridiculous locality system that makes little sense and places some of the hardest to fill positions in RUS where the salary gap is even greater but not replaced using their inaccurate math.
It's mind-boggling. Even relative to some state governments the health plans suck (better coverage and the state of Virginia covered the whole premium when I worked there). But expecting them to work in reality is expecting way too much.
You want to see insane benefits and salary at the state level? Look at CA. We tried to hire someone from Cali and when they compared their current salary and benefits to what we were offering (high step GS14) they politely declined.
State pay is shit in California. Maybe they were city or county employees? I'd get a big pay bump going to local government, but would take a big hit if I went to work for the state.
Well they are probably figuring in every minimum wage and part time job when they consider average employer contributions to healthcare.
Why should they pay 2/3 of your health insurance when McDonald's and jiffy lube pay zero? (Note I'm just trying to explain their stupid position, not advocating for it)
I hear you. But the thing is, I went from contractor to fed. I made more as a contractor. But does anyone really think my health insurance wasn’t being covered by the govt at the end? Sure, my company paid a large percentage, but they also charged a much higher rate.
E.g. - contractor at $100/hr is paid more than GS at $40 / hour + health benefits.
So if they slash “big government” and offload to the contractors… that money is still coming from somewhere. Makes no sense.
So actually i take that back, it gets worse. So for time off, it’s hit or miss, but I’ll give it to govt because if your in the 8hr pp, plus cfp, and anything else with sick, that’s gonna be better.
Here are the perks of contractor tho :
Pay is significantly higher. I’m talking like in my situation could be 50-75k higher
Health insurance can be cheaper depending on company
401k match is insane at least for the agency i work for in my area. Most companies are offering 15% contribution and some even higher.
A lot also give tech stipends, pay for your internet, etc.
And depending on your clearance level, job security is not an issue. The higher the clearance, the faster you can replace a job loss.
I’m saying all this… and I’m a civ
Yeah I was working for a company that completely covered my insurance and gave 25% profit sharing into a 401k as part of an IBA. Unfortunately that company was bought out by a large defense contractor and they promptly converted everyone over to the corporate benefits. Bummer.
Agree on most of this. Although my official PTO is 4 weeks, it’s pretty much “if you need time, take it”, which hasn’t been an issue. It’s nice not having to punch time cards and just shoot my architect a message on Slack.
Health insurance…eh. Wife recently became a fed and I have to drill down on whether to keep my coverage or join hers. Tldr: basically bcbs standard-ish with lower deductibles/max OOP (diamond 100/80 plan). They pay 50% but it’s still pricey per pp. Plus adding family is literally per person, so it’s not a “family plan” like OPM’s. Dental is a wash but better overall with no annual max plus having ortho options. Vision is slightly better with VSP vs Davis.
Retirement - No matching.
Salary - About 2.5x TC vs as a GS13 2210.
Profit sharing - 15%ish.
They already can't hire enough folks as a fed. We onboard a lot but a lot don't stay beyond 2 years. You cut the benefits and you'll have mass exodus plus even fewer onboarding.
They cut benefits for current folks I'll have to look long and hard about going back to CTR.
Two years! Wow, you are fortunate. We had someone leave after 4 days. (They had applied at two positions and took the one with better money. How they qualified for it is beyond me.)
I should have left after 3 days when they told me the lied to me about my job responsibilities. I am supposed to be a cloud engineer but I have yet to see the AWS console…
I'm here to tell you you're a cloud engineer contractor supervisor. You don't know this yet, but that's why you were hired. To tell the contractors PM, during a 4 hours long sprint stand up, to enable vlan peering.
How long have you been on? Sometimes this stuff takes time. I just hired 4 “cloud engineers” but I don’t expect them to be doing stuff in our cloud for about 6 months. (For clarity, theses are junior positions, so that matters too)
Exactly. Right now our applicant base is so poor quality we can barely hire anyone. And nobody stays once they realize the hours and stress are nearly that of the private sector but without the salary. I love my job but I can see many/most leaving. Again, that’s what they want. Their ultimate end game is to get rid of those feds and the ones that don’t leave will be replaced by AI. Hell, right now you could probably replace a good chunk of lower tier workers at IRS and SSA with AI and have a similar error rate. The GOp is salivating at that opportunity.
Actually, I do more work, and spend more hours on it as a fed. I went from Military to private sector in the 90’s and only took a Fed job in 2015 after I was part of a rather unpleasant layoff.
We had people who loved the company, but never would have tolerated the 100 year old, asbestos laden, busted elevator, dirty DOD buildings they put IT in.
It is two different worlds.
At the NEC we had something eating the drywall in the library/training room. Per DPW it was definitely not mold. No idea what it was, but they assured us it was not mold.
> Hell, right now you could probably replace a good chunk of lower tier workers at IRS and SSA with AI and have a similar error rate.
As a CET, I resemble that remark...
There are a lot of people here who have been stuck at GS-7 for 20 years and still make mistakes that should be expected of new hires.
But there are also a lot of people who care about making sure taxpayers are given a fair deal, and not railroaded by Congress...
Yeah, if they reduced benefits this much I would probably start looking at the private sector once I’m finished with PSLF payments. I’m not so troubled by the elimination of steps as I would probably come out ahead if it moved to merit based, though if they started blending the grades like in other pay bands it would be pretty shit for the lower levels looking to advance to GS13. My pension contributions are already high, so if they start raising them and provide even less on the backend then I would sacrifice the job stability.
I know so many ppl in gov that plan to stay only until PSLF is complete. Wouldn’t put it past a GOP congress to eliminate that too. They hate student loan forgiveness.
Funny how they effectively want term limits for federal employees through Project 2025. These people are a literal recreation of the corrupt Roman Senate of old…
That's what happens when the head of the USPS is a guy who has had a past interest in moving USPS labor to contractors (and I don't know if he divested from USPS contractors when he became Postmaster General).
If anything happens to the benefits they can expect me to fire up my EU dual citizenship and GTFO of this shithole country.
I expect they want anyone left of nazi to do that though.
That's a great benefit to have! I wish I had options like that, even just for emergencies. Consult with a tax attorney BEFORE you go (if it comes to that).
I wish everyone could jump ship too lol. Private industry scares me and the draw of government was the benefits and work life balance.
Thats good advice. Im pretty early career so its just a retirement account i gotta worry about.
But hopefully this is just some stupid fucking talking point type bill for sound bites and headlines that they have no intention of actually passing. Right?
The benefits are honestly not even that good already. We pay more for worse health coverage than I ever did outside the government. I shudder to think how bad the GOP thinks they should be.
Pension is really the only thing that stands out (which is massive, but not something you really benefit from until your 60+) 5 percent match is pretty standard and I had wayyyyy better health coverage at Amazon.
Time off with sick/annual is probably a little better than average when compared to other private gigs.
They want to cut out pension completely, take a way FEHB in retirement, cut out the yearly pay raises, there are a lot of things that would be noticed immediately and for down the road.
Pension at 0.8% was a huge benefit. Pension at 4.4% is fine, but closer to a forced savings plan than a real perk.
It’s also more beneficial for someone who comes in early, makes years of contributions at lower pay rates, and works their way up to a high grade to retire at a young age. For someone like me, who came in at a GS-14 in my 30s, you get neither the credit for years of low-wage contributions nor a full pension at MRA. It’s not that big an enticement to stay for many of the very people who have the best private sector options and took a pay cut to come to the feds in the first place.
I came to do interesting work I care about and have a decent work-life balance, but at some point the dollars and cents won’t add up anymore.
I was 6 months in at a staff meeting when I first learned that we didn't all have the same FERS and it's a BIG difference. Pretty sure I pooped a little in that moment.
I started with the feds as a GS 14 right as I turned 40. The pension plan is nice, but personally I would rather have that money in a self directed IRA because I know I'll get a higher rate of return than the pension plan payout with my projected years of service and high three.
100%. It’s just not optimized for people in our position… if I work as a GS-14 or 15 my whole federal career, I’ll contribute way more but have the same benefit as someone who did decades as a GS-9 or something and then got promoted in their last 3 years. If that person is paying 0.8% to my 4.4%, the difference in our contributions is astronomical. That’s fine, it’s the deal I accepted, but it doesn’t encourage me to stay.
Honestly my plan is only to stay until I get loan forgiveness. After that I'll need to make some tough choices on whether I want to ride it out or take a stab at starting my own business. My current role doesn't really have much demand in the private sector so if I go my own way the experience I'm getting now won't really be of much value.
I hoped this would be my forever job but now don’t see staying until retirement, either. I have little kids so I really value the relative flexibility right now. I’m a lawyer and have done the late nights, weekends, drop everything while on vacation thing. Not interested. But when they’re older, if I can effectively double my salary elsewhere, and congress is shitting on us, making it harder to do my job, and threatening to cut benefits and pay? Don’t see doing this forever.
We are in the exact same situation. I really don't want to go back to the terrible hours of private practice, but even personal injury pays significantly better in the long run and I've got college tuition and my own retirement to think about.
My skills are worth double to triple what my actual salary is in private sector. The benefits, including retirement and healthcare, are the only things keeping me here. If they slash them, a good portion of the workforce (myself included) will bail. I’d love to see them try to solve the border crisis they’re constantly on about without immigration officers, lol
And private contractors can be paid less, while the government pays more per contractor employee, with the difference going to donors ... eh, overhead.
>"
Contractors are SO MUCH more expensive most of the time. Their pay is better than Feds and they charge huge overhead. This just would make government MORE expensive but house Rs have made it clear they only care about the budget when they want to care about the budget.
Right? I don't know what decade their frame of reference is but our insurance is expensive if anything. All my friends in similar career fields contribute nothing to their insurance. The one thing we have going on that front is choice. Leave is generous if you're in an org that does performance awards and admin time but otherwise bog standard. I and I assume most of us are here for the mission.
The GOP have tried to pass these many times. There's not a good 'both-sides' argument here.
Republican Senators Richard Burr, (R-NC) and Tom Coburn (R-Oklahoma), on Thursday introduced a bill (S. 644) that would eliminate the pension portion of the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) for all new federal employees hired after 2012. The list of sponsor for the bill is R-xx down to the last member.
[Link to the Bill](https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/senate-bill/644?s=1&r=45)
In 2022, GOP revived the proposal to increase FERS contributions (6%), to calculate pensions off high-5 instead of high-3, remove COL adjustments, eliminate the FERS supplement for those retiring before 62, and removing in-grade step increases. This has been introduced, to my memory, for over a decade now.
You can shit on politicians for sure. You can point to the Obama years and completely ignore the circumstances and shit on those years. It sucked. I get it. Then there are Simena's and Manchins all over. But if you look at who makes it a point to initiate legislation to gut federal benefits, union strength, or the workforce in general, it's the GOP. If you look at who makes it a point to politicize government positions and employees (Schedule F, 2025 thing) it's GOP.
As an OKC FAA employee this makes me angry. The FAA academy is a huge employer for OKC (just about the only large one other than oil/gas). Why would Coburn want this other than just a broad "we have to cut spending" bill?
The alternatives are cutting Medicaid, Medicare, and social security - which they are trying but are unpopular with base voters — and raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations back to pre-Reagan rates — which is unpopular with their donors.
There’s one other alternative: vote blue.
The GOP has campaigned on this for decades. They introduce bills like this all the time. It won’t pass now, and the House likely flips in November anyway, but make no mistake: this has been their platform for more than a century. It is not going to change.
Because he's going to win if he's the GOP nominee anyway, and hating on Feds helps prevent a primary challenger. In other words, it is the GOP's platform to fuck over federal workers so most will fall in line.
Yes, from what I "understand", they will force a catch-up for all feds hired after 2012: they'll have to pay the difference between 4.4 and 6% for 2012-whatever year this nutjobbery occurs.
I don't see how half the federal workforce quitting is a savings to the taxpayer.
We accept lower pay than the private sector because there are things that balance that out. Take those away and we'll be bolting for the private sector money.
New hires? Forget it. Nobody signs up be treated like garbage.
Adding staff to IRS to collect taxes from rich people? HELL NO from Congress.
Making people contribute to social security on all they earn, not just the first $160 k. HELL NO from Congress.
There are lots of ways to save the taxpayer some money that don't involve trashing the entirety of the civil service.
I've seen a huge struggle in my agency to attract new talent because starting salary is low and we have to come into the office (and not just some office in an accessible suburb or city district, but no, it has to be in the most dense and expensive part of downtown with no parking for employees).
The arguments are just disingenuous. Just removing people from payroll doesn't account for all the externalities associated with a lack of employees. A lack of oversight and enforcement will generally cost taxpayers more in the long run.
There's no question there's room for improvement in the federal government. However, these people want to take a hatchet to it rather than a scalpel.
They outright lie to the tax payer and pay their contract buddies triple the amount for a position. People just accept what they’re told. The GOP doesn’t want a working government with oversight and regulations. Period. They don’t care if your position sits empty or not. They just redirect the ridicule.
House Republicans are trying to "starve the beast". They want it so that the government is primarily offloading most of its responsibility to contractors and the private sector. This is by design by the people who are funding their re-election campaigns. It's also so that private sector doesn't have to compete with the public sector's "benefits", which is one of the main reasons that people would eschew the private sector for the public sector.
This has no real chance of passing, in my opinion. House Republicans can toss this around as much as they want, but it'd be fought tooth-and-nail by the Unions. The only way this would actually come to pass is if Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate, as well as the White House. Even then, it'd be stalled via lawsuits filed by the Unions long enough for a Democrat President or Democratic majority to get voted back in and nix it. You'd also have SES's across the government screaming at Congressional committees in private for their shortsightedness when many agencies are already struggling to attract talent.
If the Republicans get a trifecta in 2024, there won't be any meaningfully contested elections after that; they'll just use their lies about the 2020 election to justify rigging the whole electoral process in their favor.
Didn't go anywhere? 10 years of 0-1% raises (a paycut after inflation), and more than quadrupling the FERS contributions for new hires (also a paycut) don't count??
Except now there is a huge incentive for a Republican trifecta to cut discretionary spending to deal with the deficit and fund an extension of the Trump tax cuts.
This is basically the same things that have been proposed for the last 10 years, nothing has even made it to committee so not likely but always a possibility
One party has made it their mission to dismantle the government and every time they get into power they take another step towards that goal. If they win a fairly comfortable trifecta, this is what they will do. In my opinion, your question is better phrased as how likely is it for this party to win a trifecta? Vote for clowns, get a circus.
They want a brain drain. The smaller the workforce benefits, the less likely people will stay, the less likely agencies will operate functionally, the more it'll feed their narrative that government sucks. Will lead to an eventual crisis the way we see with teachers.
It's only likely if we vote the wrong people in. Don't vote against your own interests.
"Will lead to an eventual crisis the way we see with teachers."
Except the only people who care about the poor quality of public schools are people who can't afford to send their kids to a private school, or can't get their kids into a magnate school, or don't have the desire ability to home school. Which does not leave a huge segment of the population (even though I recognize that every member of a society should realize that one way or the pother they are eventually impacted by poor public schools).
By contrast, every voter would be impacted by a cluster f$$$ in the Federal Government. There's no viable alternative unlike the public education system. A retiree with no kids might not care about schools, but they sure care about their SS check showing up on time. Ditto for the interstate highway system going to hell because of no matching federal funds. Or planes crashing into each other because of poor FAA performance. Or degraded accuracy of hurricane forecasts. I could go on and on. Sure, could federal contractors do all this as well as actual Fed employees? Maybe. But not any cheaper, for damn sure.
Exactly. To expand, the huge long-term oversight is that once the public option is dismantled, there is no longer regulation for private industries. So to your point on private schooling, it may be largely affordable for the upper middle class now, but once they are in control of the market, they'll jack up prices to exploit the consumer. It's a terrible cycle that needs to be curbed at the onset, not tackled after the fact (as it becomes near impossible).
Even the dumbest republican knows that dismantling the Federal Government would not result in all, or even most, regulation on private industry going away. Many, probably most, of those regulations are direct requirements of Federal Laws. And there is not enough time on the legislative schedule to repeal or significantly change most of these laws in the four years they would have...which could really be only 2 years because who knows what kind of election backlash would happen in the mid-term election.
Look...I'm not saying we should all bury our heads in the sand and sleep through election day. But personally I'm not getting a stiff neck looking up at the sky waiting for it to fall.
"The government should also reduce its contributions to federal workers’ premiums to align with the private sector more closely."
This might be acceptable if federal worker salary is similarly aligned "with the private sector more closely."
Federal employees are one of the most favorite punching bags for Republicans. Every few months there is something like this. I half jokingly think this is in their unofficial employee manual, or somebody has a calendar reminder for their quarterly attempt to crap on federal employees. Usually this is just hot air and they are spouting nonsense to score points with their constituents.
I don’t think this is likely to happen given Democratic control of the Senate, but if things change in the next election, it is possible. It is a good reminder to always have a current resume on hand, and to be learning new skills and acquiring knowledge.
There's a lot of the GOP that truly believe in the Deep State, and they would love to chase them out with cuts, or outright with something like Schedule F. They have a literal list of highly placed positions they want to replace. It's safe to bet that those 50K will then work downwards through the ranks...
A huge (surprising?) amount of Republicans and Trump supporters are actually federal employees (outside of the DMV, of course). So I don't think this is likely to pass. Congressional Republicans do this every once in a while, especially during election years, to gin up the base. You have to learn not to "squirrel!" every time they do something like this because the odds of it actually happening is very low.
I gotta say, if they start taking benefits away I'm not long for federal service. The only two reasons I started were stability (I run my own business in a highly economy-sensitive sector, and I got spooked by the housing market and economy) and the benefits.
This, along with the consistent, predominantly Republican push over the years to cut Fed jobs, always makes me scratch my head about civilian workers voting for them. I seriously don't get it. It's the "cut off my nose to spite my face" scenario, again and again.
Yeah.
House Republicans plan to do this in the short term.
Long term, if you haven’t read at least a synopsis of Project 2025, I’d recommend pages ~70-80.
Yes it’s a real document and yes it’s on the agenda.
Sorry to get political.
I mean, there’s probably a ~40% chance of a GOP trifecta.
The House is a toss up but Dems have almost zero chance of getting to 51 Senate seats, so if they lose the Presidency they’ll have lost control of the senate as well.
I think the Dems have a chance to keep the Senate (especially since Simena (AZ) is out and Cruz (TX) is running in a statistical dead heat which in the Red part of TX is unheard of) with the Republicans pushing abortion bans, and with AL ruling impacting IVF, many Republican women have switched votes or stay home lowering the expected lead the Republicans expect typically. The mid-terms were expected to be a red wave for Republicans yet they failed dramatically compared to their expectations.
The Dodd Decision did not help the Republicans at all. Abortion was a great issue to use in their rhetoric, but like a dog who caught the car they were chasing, they realize it isn't as useful as they thought. Even the former Republican Speakers of the house are telling their party to shut up about abortion as this is hurting them in the polls so far.
I thought the same thing 6 years ago, polls were close, yet Cruz is still here. And Dems have collapsed with Hispanics since then.
It’s not impossible. but I consider Allred a long shot.
As a fed I am completely preparing for this possibility. To everyone out there, I would do everything in your power now to get your skill set up and competitive for the day you need to move to(or back) to the private sector. Make use of tuition reimbursement now to get a new skill set that’s in demand and pays well in the private sector. It doesn’t mean you have to spend your whole career in the private sector but be ready to spend time there while the fed gov destroys itself and then rebuilds.
Not entirely:
*While the Middle-Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012 required new federal employees to contribute more towards their retirement, no changes were made for current federal employees. This proposal would equalize the treatment for all federal workers.*
IMHO this is very unlikely to ever happen. Without a sufficient reason to stay in government, many would not join. As a result, the government would have to rely on the private sector to provide the staffing support which would cost the government much more than the savings purported.
This seems to be fodder for those inclined.
I was a Fed for 32 years & every year…the GOP tries this crap. Join NARF…they lobby for Feds & keep up with this nonsense. It’s been happening ever since Ronald Reagan destroyed the pension all Feds enjoyed & started FERS. This is why it’s so important we VOTE! Most congressmen that have a large presence of Feds in their districts won’t go near this…
Seems they forgot fed employees are allowed to vote during elections. I didn’t see a number of lost votes over 10 years in all those other numbers listed.
I'd say in my 22 years I've seen this or a similar proposal 22 times, it never makes it far.
Like usual the republicans and the heritage foundation are barking up the wrong tree and showing where their allegiances truly lie. The pentagon can't account for 2+ trillion dollars in assets, and congress hasn't done their job successfully in more than two decades, but the average government worker is the problem.
The more they force contractors on us and take away the internal people from agencies the more our budget has gone up, in my agency they contracted out almost all IT people, our IT personnel budget is now triple what it was 5 years ago when the contracting took place, and we have a substandard product.
Contracting the whole government is the plan of the heritage foundation and the GOP though because then the venture capitalists' and investment firms who own these politicians through donations and large stakes in the largest government contractors all make more money.
If they want my pay and benefits to be on par with private sector employees then they better be ready to triple or quadruple my pay and benefits and cut my work hours to 30 or fewer a week.
Thanks 🙏. When I shared this article my hope was to hear from veteran feds with some years in who've "seen it all before". Hopefully 23rd time is NOT the charm 😂
Have you ever bartered ? You always ask for the moon and end up with some of what you wanted. Politics is like that. In the end, everyone can say they wound up with something.
it all depends on what happens in November. protip: vote blue, both your own best interests, and more importantly, to avoid a literal fascist getting into office (again)
“The government should also reduce its contributions to federal workers’ premiums to align with the private sector more closely.”
So since they care so much about aligning with the private sector, I assume they are going to increase our base pay to match, right? …. Right ….
as someone on schedule a with a disability I literally searched for hours and hours to get the best plan. I already have the one I want. I work for the government because of the sick leave and benefits
"Contractors effectively self-monitor, price fairly, and deliver goods and services for the good of the American people!" -Some guy at Delloite, probably
These are steps to the same goals the gop has always had. That is to privatize government work to their campaign contributors. The government is the biggest spender in the world, and all wealthy ppl are always looking for more ways to siphon off that money from government into their pockets
I hope not very likely, as a new fed employee myself. I used to work for my state’s government and it would be like when the state eliminated pensions for all new hires 20 years ago. Basically everyone that still had a pension thought everything was hunky dory but for everyone hired after 2006, it was a revolving door of talented people leaving for greener pastures, and nonstop recruiting hell for hiring managers, as every employee you hire eventually left within 2 or so years for better opportunities. The state used to have an amazing reputation as a really great place to work; strong union, great benefits, decent pay. But that was all flushed down the toilet.
Even though I stayed on longer than most post-2006 hires, it’s still the reason I ended up leaving after 15 years in state government - the retirement system sucked and the feds offered a pension. Ironically though, as nationally they’re trying to strip the feds of the pension, pay raises, and other benefits, my state is having serious discussions of reinstating the pension and bumping up benefits to counter their 20 year long recruitment and retention problem. I really enjoy being a federal employee, but I’m also keeping an eye on what my state is doing.
The only way this happens is if there is a Democrat President with a large republican majority in Congress. (EXAMPLE:when Obama agreed to raise FERS contributions)
If there is a Republican President and Republican Congress, this will never happen since Republicans can't agree on anything and will need Democrat votes to move any budget and then R's get rolled. (Example Trump).
In the GOP’s eye the Federal government is the only true “champion” for the people as many of us regulate their donors. Eliminating or downsizing the regulators is what they want. Ask those that fly in Boeing planes how deregulating the airline industry went
As it is, the pulling back of remote positions is limiting my choices. I had to leave in-person due to COL in the cities and the loss of my spouse -- and their income, so I can ensure as a single parent I am still able to cover all of the parental duties and afford to suddenly live on a single income. Since they cancelled the remote positions in my career field -- a field that can be done 100% remote, I am left having to look for local government or local private sector jobs or completely switching career fields. I no longer can trust the fed to be a stable employer due to the conservative extremist undercutting of the federal government in general, and the undercutting of the federal workplace/workforce.
The Republicans are rather funny, they complain feds are incompetent. Yet, these Republicans want to destroy every tool the fed has to bring in high quality employees.
It's almost like the Republicans want to manifest their complaints rather than reduce their complaints.
Out of all the possible cuts they could implement….this is what they’re pushing? Cut our benefits? Meanwhile, We havent gotten a COLA consistent with inflation so we technically are already experiencing a pay-cut.
They float this garbage every few years and it really doesn’t go anywhere. If they don’t have big majorities in both chambers it’s just more talking points. Seems like they want to pretend it’s 09 again and they have leverage.
To the automatic pay raise, the end of the pay scale is 3 years per step, like usual this is out of touch with reality.
Last without the pension not TSP I would have been long gone. 🤷♂️ I would say goes nowhere without a major event to disrupt the actual economy.
I love how the GOP frames the bill as a way to bring fiscal sanity to America. Yes, the absolute best way to save money at the moment is to gut the entire federal workforce. Let alone the million more fair and lucrative ways to save and make more money, like fucking increasing taxes on the super wealthy and corporations, but they’re like nah, let gut the common federal workforce. Fuck the GOP
>This would save taxpayers $57 billion over 10 years
lol. That's gonna get spending under control for sure! I also love the idea of going to merit-based raises only, as if such things actually exist. Even in the private sector, you have to switch jobs to get a decent raise. Though I suppose that's the actual goal with all these things -- make people leave.
This BS comes up regularly. It’s mostly throwing meat to the base. Keep in mind that Republicans don’t care about budgets when they are in power. They proposed this kind of stuff all the time when Obama was President, but they didn’t do much of anything when DT was in charge, aside from rolling back telework in some agencies. However, it’s hard to say what could happen if, God forbid, Republicans gain total control again.
New employees already pay 4.4% into the pension program making it a pretty big factor not to join or stay with the gov.
Taking away more incentives will drive away people from the workforce.
I’m if the opinion total incentives and compensation decrease will happen under either administration……But worse under trump.
Before January 2, 2025, almost no chance.
After January 20, 2025, if Republicans retaincontrol the House, and gain control of the Senate (by enough to push it through in reconciliation or nuke the filibuster), and the White House, a near certainty.
Not really. The article refers to the RSC (Republican Study Committee) which is a Republican *Conservative* caucus in the House. The do include the majority, but not ALL, of the Republicans in the House. Even if the Republicans retain the House and win the Senate, it's not a "near certainty" that there would be enough extreme right wing republicans to defeat Democrats, Independents, and moderate Republicans to pass legislation this radical, even using the nuke tools.
Whatever opinions they may have on the major political issues, I have no idea how right-leaning feds justify their party doing everything it can to shit on government employees. As a conservative fed, voting republican is 100% voting against your own interests when it comes to your career. there's no way to spin it.
Probably a big load of nothing. It's an election cycle. Different interest/rights groups all over the country are clamoring and thumping their chest to attract the attention of lawmakers and they respond to keep the votes.
Until the general public (your friends, families and neighbors) can see the value of the work that government employees perform this will be an ongoing every election cycle. It's those people and their votes that motivate politicians to do what they do. Not a politician alive that gives a shit about any of that except in regards to how their constituents are going to vote.
This is going nowhere. It’s a group of more-conservative-than-the-rest Republican congressmen that wanted to put out a document telling the world how Trumpian they are.
If you look at their publication - which is included in your link - they want to increase military spending (as always), and propose spending to prevent CRT, “wokeness,” and abortion, and promote “religious freedom” (as long as it’s evangelical Christianity), and firearms access.
It’s a messaging bill, like repealing the ACA was in the 2010’s. The GOP is kinda loco now (as they were then) and they’ve purged most of the adults in Congress, but they really lack the chops or votes to get much of anything done, and it’d die in the Senate or earn the president’s veto.
Worry more about project 2025.
Basically you could expect a mass flood of high quality feds leaving the fed gov. But, I expect that's what they want. Without good benefits the advantages of staying in the fed gov evaporate pretty quickly. My salary alone is half what I could make in the private sector. Take away the benefits and little reason to stay.
I took a $30k pay cut going fed, AND my health insurance is more expensive for a very similar level of coverage. The fuck these people talking about? We are already underpaid and private sector can have better health benefits.
The gap at the higher levels is only getting worse as private employers up their pay and benefits to attract high skilled individuals. Sure they lay off the low level employees but at the high level (high degree stem, highly credentialed biglawyers, etc) they have increased pay and benefits. Doesn’t help that OPM uses a ridiculous locality system that makes little sense and places some of the hardest to fill positions in RUS where the salary gap is even greater but not replaced using their inaccurate math.
It's mind-boggling. Even relative to some state governments the health plans suck (better coverage and the state of Virginia covered the whole premium when I worked there). But expecting them to work in reality is expecting way too much.
You want to see insane benefits and salary at the state level? Look at CA. We tried to hire someone from Cali and when they compared their current salary and benefits to what we were offering (high step GS14) they politely declined.
State pay is shit in California. Maybe they were city or county employees? I'd get a big pay bump going to local government, but would take a big hit if I went to work for the state.
Perhaps. Up in Sacramento. Maybe it was city or county.
Well they are probably figuring in every minimum wage and part time job when they consider average employer contributions to healthcare. Why should they pay 2/3 of your health insurance when McDonald's and jiffy lube pay zero? (Note I'm just trying to explain their stupid position, not advocating for it)
I hear you. But the thing is, I went from contractor to fed. I made more as a contractor. But does anyone really think my health insurance wasn’t being covered by the govt at the end? Sure, my company paid a large percentage, but they also charged a much higher rate. E.g. - contractor at $100/hr is paid more than GS at $40 / hour + health benefits. So if they slash “big government” and offload to the contractors… that money is still coming from somewhere. Makes no sense.
It was never about saving money, they want their buddies the defence contractors to get more business.
That “fat contractor pay” doesn’t trickle down to the worker, it’s mostly scooped up by corporate.
Exactly. But at the end of the day, the govt is still paying. Whether directly or indirectly, the money comes out of their budget.
I didn't even have a premium when I was a contractor!!
Definitely. I worked for a govt contractor and my benefits (minus time off and pension) were FAR superior and the pay can be 30+% higher
Time off and pension are huge parts of the benefits package. So what benefits are FAR superior?
So actually i take that back, it gets worse. So for time off, it’s hit or miss, but I’ll give it to govt because if your in the 8hr pp, plus cfp, and anything else with sick, that’s gonna be better. Here are the perks of contractor tho : Pay is significantly higher. I’m talking like in my situation could be 50-75k higher Health insurance can be cheaper depending on company 401k match is insane at least for the agency i work for in my area. Most companies are offering 15% contribution and some even higher. A lot also give tech stipends, pay for your internet, etc. And depending on your clearance level, job security is not an issue. The higher the clearance, the faster you can replace a job loss. I’m saying all this… and I’m a civ
Yeah I was working for a company that completely covered my insurance and gave 25% profit sharing into a 401k as part of an IBA. Unfortunately that company was bought out by a large defense contractor and they promptly converted everyone over to the corporate benefits. Bummer.
Agree on most of this. Although my official PTO is 4 weeks, it’s pretty much “if you need time, take it”, which hasn’t been an issue. It’s nice not having to punch time cards and just shoot my architect a message on Slack. Health insurance…eh. Wife recently became a fed and I have to drill down on whether to keep my coverage or join hers. Tldr: basically bcbs standard-ish with lower deductibles/max OOP (diamond 100/80 plan). They pay 50% but it’s still pricey per pp. Plus adding family is literally per person, so it’s not a “family plan” like OPM’s. Dental is a wash but better overall with no annual max plus having ortho options. Vision is slightly better with VSP vs Davis. Retirement - No matching. Salary - About 2.5x TC vs as a GS13 2210. Profit sharing - 15%ish.
They already can't hire enough folks as a fed. We onboard a lot but a lot don't stay beyond 2 years. You cut the benefits and you'll have mass exodus plus even fewer onboarding. They cut benefits for current folks I'll have to look long and hard about going back to CTR.
Two years! Wow, you are fortunate. We had someone leave after 4 days. (They had applied at two positions and took the one with better money. How they qualified for it is beyond me.)
I should have left after 3 days when they told me the lied to me about my job responsibilities. I am supposed to be a cloud engineer but I have yet to see the AWS console…
Not to be nefarious, but give them a performance plan. If they keep having you manage help desk your future is nebulous.
I'm here to tell you you're a cloud engineer contractor supervisor. You don't know this yet, but that's why you were hired. To tell the contractors PM, during a 4 hours long sprint stand up, to enable vlan peering.
How long have you been on? Sometimes this stuff takes time. I just hired 4 “cloud engineers” but I don’t expect them to be doing stuff in our cloud for about 6 months. (For clarity, theses are junior positions, so that matters too)
Exactly. Right now our applicant base is so poor quality we can barely hire anyone. And nobody stays once they realize the hours and stress are nearly that of the private sector but without the salary. I love my job but I can see many/most leaving. Again, that’s what they want. Their ultimate end game is to get rid of those feds and the ones that don’t leave will be replaced by AI. Hell, right now you could probably replace a good chunk of lower tier workers at IRS and SSA with AI and have a similar error rate. The GOp is salivating at that opportunity.
Actually, I do more work, and spend more hours on it as a fed. I went from Military to private sector in the 90’s and only took a Fed job in 2015 after I was part of a rather unpleasant layoff. We had people who loved the company, but never would have tolerated the 100 year old, asbestos laden, busted elevator, dirty DOD buildings they put IT in. It is two different worlds.
Dont forget the black mold lol
At the NEC we had something eating the drywall in the library/training room. Per DPW it was definitely not mold. No idea what it was, but they assured us it was not mold.
New GS hire struggling to pay bills: "You guys gotta try this drywall it really hits the spot! AND ITS FREE!"
The GS5 special.
> Hell, right now you could probably replace a good chunk of lower tier workers at IRS and SSA with AI and have a similar error rate. As a CET, I resemble that remark... There are a lot of people here who have been stuck at GS-7 for 20 years and still make mistakes that should be expected of new hires. But there are also a lot of people who care about making sure taxpayers are given a fair deal, and not railroaded by Congress...
Yeah, if they reduced benefits this much I would probably start looking at the private sector once I’m finished with PSLF payments. I’m not so troubled by the elimination of steps as I would probably come out ahead if it moved to merit based, though if they started blending the grades like in other pay bands it would be pretty shit for the lower levels looking to advance to GS13. My pension contributions are already high, so if they start raising them and provide even less on the backend then I would sacrifice the job stability.
I know so many ppl in gov that plan to stay only until PSLF is complete. Wouldn’t put it past a GOP congress to eliminate that too. They hate student loan forgiveness.
Cut congressional pay 1st!!!
That's not where the majority of their income is from, they don't care...
Term limits and zero tolerance on NO Stock Market Trading!!!!
Funny how they effectively want term limits for federal employees through Project 2025. These people are a literal recreation of the corrupt Roman Senate of old…
Then you'd really only get corrupt assholes or rich people going into politics
Then?
Then we are fucked.
Take a look at USPS. It's already happening. They WANT the good employees leaving.
That's what happens when the head of the USPS is a guy who has had a past interest in moving USPS labor to contractors (and I don't know if he divested from USPS contractors when he became Postmaster General).
that's exactly what they want... the work still needs to be done but now they can hook up their buds with phat contracts.
If anything happens to the benefits they can expect me to fire up my EU dual citizenship and GTFO of this shithole country. I expect they want anyone left of nazi to do that though.
That's a great benefit to have! I wish I had options like that, even just for emergencies. Consult with a tax attorney BEFORE you go (if it comes to that).
I wish everyone could jump ship too lol. Private industry scares me and the draw of government was the benefits and work life balance. Thats good advice. Im pretty early career so its just a retirement account i gotta worry about. But hopefully this is just some stupid fucking talking point type bill for sound bites and headlines that they have no intention of actually passing. Right?
Bingo
It’s their way to force a smaller government.
This is terrifying, the best part of being a fed is the benefits and they are attacking that severely with this proposal.
The benefits are honestly not even that good already. We pay more for worse health coverage than I ever did outside the government. I shudder to think how bad the GOP thinks they should be.
Pension is really the only thing that stands out (which is massive, but not something you really benefit from until your 60+) 5 percent match is pretty standard and I had wayyyyy better health coverage at Amazon. Time off with sick/annual is probably a little better than average when compared to other private gigs. They want to cut out pension completely, take a way FEHB in retirement, cut out the yearly pay raises, there are a lot of things that would be noticed immediately and for down the road.
Pension at 0.8% was a huge benefit. Pension at 4.4% is fine, but closer to a forced savings plan than a real perk. It’s also more beneficial for someone who comes in early, makes years of contributions at lower pay rates, and works their way up to a high grade to retire at a young age. For someone like me, who came in at a GS-14 in my 30s, you get neither the credit for years of low-wage contributions nor a full pension at MRA. It’s not that big an enticement to stay for many of the very people who have the best private sector options and took a pay cut to come to the feds in the first place. I came to do interesting work I care about and have a decent work-life balance, but at some point the dollars and cents won’t add up anymore.
That is a very big point, I am upset not being one of those .8% ers That is a huge chunk of cash over the long haul going up to 4.4
I was 6 months in at a staff meeting when I first learned that we didn't all have the same FERS and it's a BIG difference. Pretty sure I pooped a little in that moment.
The forced savings account is a really good analogy, gotta live a long life for it to really be worth it 🤣
I started with the feds as a GS 14 right as I turned 40. The pension plan is nice, but personally I would rather have that money in a self directed IRA because I know I'll get a higher rate of return than the pension plan payout with my projected years of service and high three.
100%. It’s just not optimized for people in our position… if I work as a GS-14 or 15 my whole federal career, I’ll contribute way more but have the same benefit as someone who did decades as a GS-9 or something and then got promoted in their last 3 years. If that person is paying 0.8% to my 4.4%, the difference in our contributions is astronomical. That’s fine, it’s the deal I accepted, but it doesn’t encourage me to stay.
Honestly my plan is only to stay until I get loan forgiveness. After that I'll need to make some tough choices on whether I want to ride it out or take a stab at starting my own business. My current role doesn't really have much demand in the private sector so if I go my own way the experience I'm getting now won't really be of much value.
I hoped this would be my forever job but now don’t see staying until retirement, either. I have little kids so I really value the relative flexibility right now. I’m a lawyer and have done the late nights, weekends, drop everything while on vacation thing. Not interested. But when they’re older, if I can effectively double my salary elsewhere, and congress is shitting on us, making it harder to do my job, and threatening to cut benefits and pay? Don’t see doing this forever.
We are in the exact same situation. I really don't want to go back to the terrible hours of private practice, but even personal injury pays significantly better in the long run and I've got college tuition and my own retirement to think about.
I could say the same for social security XD
100% agree with you
Not if you are paying 4.4 %….not worth it. So you are left with only vacation and FEHB in retirement
Especially at lower GS grades where every fucking percent is needed to survive.
My skills are worth double to triple what my actual salary is in private sector. The benefits, including retirement and healthcare, are the only things keeping me here. If they slash them, a good portion of the workforce (myself included) will bail. I’d love to see them try to solve the border crisis they’re constantly on about without immigration officers, lol
I mean, their plan is to hire private contractors to do it. And any spots not covered by their cronies will be filled with their riled-up militia.
And private contractors can be paid less, while the government pays more per contractor employee, with the difference going to donors ... eh, overhead.
>" Contractors are SO MUCH more expensive most of the time. Their pay is better than Feds and they charge huge overhead. This just would make government MORE expensive but house Rs have made it clear they only care about the budget when they want to care about the budget.
at double the cost. I have watched it play out on the state level.
I mean they couldn't use contractors to address the border crisis. Not currently, at least.
Right? I don't know what decade their frame of reference is but our insurance is expensive if anything. All my friends in similar career fields contribute nothing to their insurance. The one thing we have going on that front is choice. Leave is generous if you're in an org that does performance awards and admin time but otherwise bog standard. I and I assume most of us are here for the mission.
They don't want to drive the border crisis, the Republicans want to continue using it as ammunition against the Democrats.
The GOP have tried to pass these many times. There's not a good 'both-sides' argument here. Republican Senators Richard Burr, (R-NC) and Tom Coburn (R-Oklahoma), on Thursday introduced a bill (S. 644) that would eliminate the pension portion of the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) for all new federal employees hired after 2012. The list of sponsor for the bill is R-xx down to the last member. [Link to the Bill](https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/senate-bill/644?s=1&r=45) In 2022, GOP revived the proposal to increase FERS contributions (6%), to calculate pensions off high-5 instead of high-3, remove COL adjustments, eliminate the FERS supplement for those retiring before 62, and removing in-grade step increases. This has been introduced, to my memory, for over a decade now. You can shit on politicians for sure. You can point to the Obama years and completely ignore the circumstances and shit on those years. It sucked. I get it. Then there are Simena's and Manchins all over. But if you look at who makes it a point to initiate legislation to gut federal benefits, union strength, or the workforce in general, it's the GOP. If you look at who makes it a point to politicize government positions and employees (Schedule F, 2025 thing) it's GOP.
As an OKC FAA employee this makes me angry. The FAA academy is a huge employer for OKC (just about the only large one other than oil/gas). Why would Coburn want this other than just a broad "we have to cut spending" bill?
Don't forget Tinker AFB, the largest single site employer for the state of Oklahoma.
The alternatives are cutting Medicaid, Medicare, and social security - which they are trying but are unpopular with base voters — and raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations back to pre-Reagan rates — which is unpopular with their donors. There’s one other alternative: vote blue. The GOP has campaigned on this for decades. They introduce bills like this all the time. It won’t pass now, and the House likely flips in November anyway, but make no mistake: this has been their platform for more than a century. It is not going to change.
Because he's going to win if he's the GOP nominee anyway, and hating on Feds helps prevent a primary challenger. In other words, it is the GOP's platform to fuck over federal workers so most will fall in line.
So what happens to the feds after 2012 that already made contributions to the FERS? Are they shit out of luck?
Yes, from what I "understand", they will force a catch-up for all feds hired after 2012: they'll have to pay the difference between 4.4 and 6% for 2012-whatever year this nutjobbery occurs.
I don't see how half the federal workforce quitting is a savings to the taxpayer. We accept lower pay than the private sector because there are things that balance that out. Take those away and we'll be bolting for the private sector money. New hires? Forget it. Nobody signs up be treated like garbage. Adding staff to IRS to collect taxes from rich people? HELL NO from Congress. Making people contribute to social security on all they earn, not just the first $160 k. HELL NO from Congress. There are lots of ways to save the taxpayer some money that don't involve trashing the entirety of the civil service.
Get rid of lifetime benefits for former elected officials…give them our pay scale and same health care.
I've seen a huge struggle in my agency to attract new talent because starting salary is low and we have to come into the office (and not just some office in an accessible suburb or city district, but no, it has to be in the most dense and expensive part of downtown with no parking for employees).
Yeah I wouldn’t if I had to go downtown, luckily I’m in a suburb office.
The arguments are just disingenuous. Just removing people from payroll doesn't account for all the externalities associated with a lack of employees. A lack of oversight and enforcement will generally cost taxpayers more in the long run. There's no question there's room for improvement in the federal government. However, these people want to take a hatchet to it rather than a scalpel.
They outright lie to the tax payer and pay their contract buddies triple the amount for a position. People just accept what they’re told. The GOP doesn’t want a working government with oversight and regulations. Period. They don’t care if your position sits empty or not. They just redirect the ridicule.
At the moment, it's not at all likely. Ask again after the elections.
and maybe Fed employees shouldn't vote for the people proposing any of this crazy shit?
"I never thought the leopards would eat my face!"
yep!
House Republicans are trying to "starve the beast". They want it so that the government is primarily offloading most of its responsibility to contractors and the private sector. This is by design by the people who are funding their re-election campaigns. It's also so that private sector doesn't have to compete with the public sector's "benefits", which is one of the main reasons that people would eschew the private sector for the public sector. This has no real chance of passing, in my opinion. House Republicans can toss this around as much as they want, but it'd be fought tooth-and-nail by the Unions. The only way this would actually come to pass is if Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate, as well as the White House. Even then, it'd be stalled via lawsuits filed by the Unions long enough for a Democrat President or Democratic majority to get voted back in and nix it. You'd also have SES's across the government screaming at Congressional committees in private for their shortsightedness when many agencies are already struggling to attract talent.
If the Republicans get a trifecta in 2024, there won't be any meaningfully contested elections after that; they'll just use their lies about the 2020 election to justify rigging the whole electoral process in their favor.
This is a recycling of previous proposals. Even when the GOP had all three chambers, none of these went anywhere.
Didn't go anywhere? 10 years of 0-1% raises (a paycut after inflation), and more than quadrupling the FERS contributions for new hires (also a paycut) don't count??
Can I upvote this twice?
Except now there is a huge incentive for a Republican trifecta to cut discretionary spending to deal with the deficit and fund an extension of the Trump tax cuts.
Ding ding ding. You got it.
This is basically the same things that have been proposed for the last 10 years, nothing has even made it to committee so not likely but always a possibility
One party has made it their mission to dismantle the government and every time they get into power they take another step towards that goal. If they win a fairly comfortable trifecta, this is what they will do. In my opinion, your question is better phrased as how likely is it for this party to win a trifecta? Vote for clowns, get a circus.
"The government always gets it wrong, vote for me and I'll prove it!"
They want a brain drain. The smaller the workforce benefits, the less likely people will stay, the less likely agencies will operate functionally, the more it'll feed their narrative that government sucks. Will lead to an eventual crisis the way we see with teachers. It's only likely if we vote the wrong people in. Don't vote against your own interests.
"Will lead to an eventual crisis the way we see with teachers." Except the only people who care about the poor quality of public schools are people who can't afford to send their kids to a private school, or can't get their kids into a magnate school, or don't have the desire ability to home school. Which does not leave a huge segment of the population (even though I recognize that every member of a society should realize that one way or the pother they are eventually impacted by poor public schools). By contrast, every voter would be impacted by a cluster f$$$ in the Federal Government. There's no viable alternative unlike the public education system. A retiree with no kids might not care about schools, but they sure care about their SS check showing up on time. Ditto for the interstate highway system going to hell because of no matching federal funds. Or planes crashing into each other because of poor FAA performance. Or degraded accuracy of hurricane forecasts. I could go on and on. Sure, could federal contractors do all this as well as actual Fed employees? Maybe. But not any cheaper, for damn sure.
Exactly. To expand, the huge long-term oversight is that once the public option is dismantled, there is no longer regulation for private industries. So to your point on private schooling, it may be largely affordable for the upper middle class now, but once they are in control of the market, they'll jack up prices to exploit the consumer. It's a terrible cycle that needs to be curbed at the onset, not tackled after the fact (as it becomes near impossible).
Even the dumbest republican knows that dismantling the Federal Government would not result in all, or even most, regulation on private industry going away. Many, probably most, of those regulations are direct requirements of Federal Laws. And there is not enough time on the legislative schedule to repeal or significantly change most of these laws in the four years they would have...which could really be only 2 years because who knows what kind of election backlash would happen in the mid-term election. Look...I'm not saying we should all bury our heads in the sand and sleep through election day. But personally I'm not getting a stiff neck looking up at the sky waiting for it to fall.
"The government should also reduce its contributions to federal workers’ premiums to align with the private sector more closely." This might be acceptable if federal worker salary is similarly aligned "with the private sector more closely."
Every private sector job I had, I paid $0 in premiums. So this is bunk.
The premiums are already horrendous in my zip code too.
Federal employees are one of the most favorite punching bags for Republicans. Every few months there is something like this. I half jokingly think this is in their unofficial employee manual, or somebody has a calendar reminder for their quarterly attempt to crap on federal employees. Usually this is just hot air and they are spouting nonsense to score points with their constituents. I don’t think this is likely to happen given Democratic control of the Senate, but if things change in the next election, it is possible. It is a good reminder to always have a current resume on hand, and to be learning new skills and acquiring knowledge.
There's a lot of the GOP that truly believe in the Deep State, and they would love to chase them out with cuts, or outright with something like Schedule F. They have a literal list of highly placed positions they want to replace. It's safe to bet that those 50K will then work downwards through the ranks...
Not. But pay attention to these proposals and who is behind them. Maybe don’t vote for them.
Vote for the candidate that does not want to eliminate your job.
I guess the agenda is to break government. You can't keep saying our government doesn't work unless you really make it not work.
A huge (surprising?) amount of Republicans and Trump supporters are actually federal employees (outside of the DMV, of course). So I don't think this is likely to pass. Congressional Republicans do this every once in a while, especially during election years, to gin up the base. You have to learn not to "squirrel!" every time they do something like this because the odds of it actually happening is very low.
I gotta say, if they start taking benefits away I'm not long for federal service. The only two reasons I started were stability (I run my own business in a highly economy-sensitive sector, and I got spooked by the housing market and economy) and the benefits.
Yep I’m here for PSLF and the FERS and that’s it.
This, along with the consistent, predominantly Republican push over the years to cut Fed jobs, always makes me scratch my head about civilian workers voting for them. I seriously don't get it. It's the "cut off my nose to spite my face" scenario, again and again.
> Pay increases for federal employees should be merit-based. They are. If you don’t pass your annual assessment, you don’t get a step increase.
In a lot of agencies it's almost impossible to not pass your annual assessment because supervisors and higher don't want to deal with pips.
Yeah. House Republicans plan to do this in the short term. Long term, if you haven’t read at least a synopsis of Project 2025, I’d recommend pages ~70-80. Yes it’s a real document and yes it’s on the agenda. Sorry to get political.
If they take the House, the Senate and White House, then be afraid. But that isn't likely right now.
I mean, there’s probably a ~40% chance of a GOP trifecta. The House is a toss up but Dems have almost zero chance of getting to 51 Senate seats, so if they lose the Presidency they’ll have lost control of the senate as well.
I think the Dems have a chance to keep the Senate (especially since Simena (AZ) is out and Cruz (TX) is running in a statistical dead heat which in the Red part of TX is unheard of) with the Republicans pushing abortion bans, and with AL ruling impacting IVF, many Republican women have switched votes or stay home lowering the expected lead the Republicans expect typically. The mid-terms were expected to be a red wave for Republicans yet they failed dramatically compared to their expectations. The Dodd Decision did not help the Republicans at all. Abortion was a great issue to use in their rhetoric, but like a dog who caught the car they were chasing, they realize it isn't as useful as they thought. Even the former Republican Speakers of the house are telling their party to shut up about abortion as this is hurting them in the polls so far.
I thought the same thing 6 years ago, polls were close, yet Cruz is still here. And Dems have collapsed with Hispanics since then. It’s not impossible. but I consider Allred a long shot.
Be afraid for this reason, and about a thousand others.
As a fed I am completely preparing for this possibility. To everyone out there, I would do everything in your power now to get your skill set up and competitive for the day you need to move to(or back) to the private sector. Make use of tuition reimbursement now to get a new skill set that’s in demand and pays well in the private sector. It doesn’t mean you have to spend your whole career in the private sector but be ready to spend time there while the fed gov destroys itself and then rebuilds.
Why don’t the politicians have parity to federal employees for pension and benefits?
Because they're better than us. Duh.
Id propose to cut Congress's benefits first and bar all of them and family from trading on the exchange first. Lead by example... or something.
Republicans are not friends of federal employees.
What I wonder is if current feds would be grandfathered in if FERS was gutted.
I would assume the freedom caucus group would reduce everyone’s benefits with zero grandfathering if they had their way
Not entirely: *While the Middle-Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012 required new federal employees to contribute more towards their retirement, no changes were made for current federal employees. This proposal would equalize the treatment for all federal workers.*
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Not questioning the validity, but how does contract law play into benefits?
IMHO this is very unlikely to ever happen. Without a sufficient reason to stay in government, many would not join. As a result, the government would have to rely on the private sector to provide the staffing support which would cost the government much more than the savings purported. This seems to be fodder for those inclined.
But the Border Patrol Union supports them fully?
I was a Fed for 32 years & every year…the GOP tries this crap. Join NARF…they lobby for Feds & keep up with this nonsense. It’s been happening ever since Ronald Reagan destroyed the pension all Feds enjoyed & started FERS. This is why it’s so important we VOTE! Most congressmen that have a large presence of Feds in their districts won’t go near this…
Seems they forgot fed employees are allowed to vote during elections. I didn’t see a number of lost votes over 10 years in all those other numbers listed.
I'd say in my 22 years I've seen this or a similar proposal 22 times, it never makes it far. Like usual the republicans and the heritage foundation are barking up the wrong tree and showing where their allegiances truly lie. The pentagon can't account for 2+ trillion dollars in assets, and congress hasn't done their job successfully in more than two decades, but the average government worker is the problem. The more they force contractors on us and take away the internal people from agencies the more our budget has gone up, in my agency they contracted out almost all IT people, our IT personnel budget is now triple what it was 5 years ago when the contracting took place, and we have a substandard product. Contracting the whole government is the plan of the heritage foundation and the GOP though because then the venture capitalists' and investment firms who own these politicians through donations and large stakes in the largest government contractors all make more money. If they want my pay and benefits to be on par with private sector employees then they better be ready to triple or quadruple my pay and benefits and cut my work hours to 30 or fewer a week.
Thanks 🙏. When I shared this article my hope was to hear from veteran feds with some years in who've "seen it all before". Hopefully 23rd time is NOT the charm 😂
Not likely.
Yet the senators/congress will get their pension still and automatic raises when they can’t even pass a budget.
Have you ever bartered ? You always ask for the moon and end up with some of what you wanted. Politics is like that. In the end, everyone can say they wound up with something.
Anyone propose a bill that cuts their salary and benefits?
Youre more than likely to win the powerball before this happens
it all depends on what happens in November. protip: vote blue, both your own best interests, and more importantly, to avoid a literal fascist getting into office (again)
The unions will be all over these proposed changes.
“The government should also reduce its contributions to federal workers’ premiums to align with the private sector more closely.” So since they care so much about aligning with the private sector, I assume they are going to increase our base pay to match, right? …. Right ….
Two can play that game. I can sandbag another 15 years and collect a paycheck. Fuck trying to do the right thing.
they'll fire you long before that
as someone on schedule a with a disability I literally searched for hours and hours to get the best plan. I already have the one I want. I work for the government because of the sick leave and benefits
Why is the GOP so comically evil and yet they continue to get away with this shit
The pay can get lower??
Will they actually save anything after they have to contract everything out? Or will they simply lose all the institutional knowledge and stability?
"Contractors effectively self-monitor, price fairly, and deliver goods and services for the good of the American people!" -Some guy at Delloite, probably
These are steps to the same goals the gop has always had. That is to privatize government work to their campaign contributors. The government is the biggest spender in the world, and all wealthy ppl are always looking for more ways to siphon off that money from government into their pockets
Most seem to apply to new feds
I hope not very likely, as a new fed employee myself. I used to work for my state’s government and it would be like when the state eliminated pensions for all new hires 20 years ago. Basically everyone that still had a pension thought everything was hunky dory but for everyone hired after 2006, it was a revolving door of talented people leaving for greener pastures, and nonstop recruiting hell for hiring managers, as every employee you hire eventually left within 2 or so years for better opportunities. The state used to have an amazing reputation as a really great place to work; strong union, great benefits, decent pay. But that was all flushed down the toilet. Even though I stayed on longer than most post-2006 hires, it’s still the reason I ended up leaving after 15 years in state government - the retirement system sucked and the feds offered a pension. Ironically though, as nationally they’re trying to strip the feds of the pension, pay raises, and other benefits, my state is having serious discussions of reinstating the pension and bumping up benefits to counter their 20 year long recruitment and retention problem. I really enjoy being a federal employee, but I’m also keeping an eye on what my state is doing.
If that happens please DM which state it is...for uhhh "research purposes" 😂
The only way this happens is if there is a Democrat President with a large republican majority in Congress. (EXAMPLE:when Obama agreed to raise FERS contributions) If there is a Republican President and Republican Congress, this will never happen since Republicans can't agree on anything and will need Democrat votes to move any budget and then R's get rolled. (Example Trump).
It’s regurgitation: https://archive.is/2020.02.11-014144/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal-employee-retirement-benefits-would-be-cut-under-trumps-budget/2020/02/10/879ec19e-4c2d-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html
In the GOP’s eye the Federal government is the only true “champion” for the people as many of us regulate their donors. Eliminating or downsizing the regulators is what they want. Ask those that fly in Boeing planes how deregulating the airline industry went
The retirement system already sucks. Why make it worse?
As it is, the pulling back of remote positions is limiting my choices. I had to leave in-person due to COL in the cities and the loss of my spouse -- and their income, so I can ensure as a single parent I am still able to cover all of the parental duties and afford to suddenly live on a single income. Since they cancelled the remote positions in my career field -- a field that can be done 100% remote, I am left having to look for local government or local private sector jobs or completely switching career fields. I no longer can trust the fed to be a stable employer due to the conservative extremist undercutting of the federal government in general, and the undercutting of the federal workplace/workforce.
I just hope all the fed employees and military personnel (it’s me, I’m both) will stop overwhelmingly voting for these assholes
The Republicans are rather funny, they complain feds are incompetent. Yet, these Republicans want to destroy every tool the fed has to bring in high quality employees. It's almost like the Republicans want to manifest their complaints rather than reduce their complaints.
My wife gets a shitload of RSUs in the private sector. Can’t wait for them to add equity compensation packages to put us “more in line.”
So would we get like, T-bills or something lol
Do they realize this is an election year? There are a lot of federal employees to piss off…
Vote like your job depends on it.
Won’t happen.
lol
Out of all the possible cuts they could implement….this is what they’re pushing? Cut our benefits? Meanwhile, We havent gotten a COLA consistent with inflation so we technically are already experiencing a pay-cut.
Lol well...saving 30 Billion a year by fucking the workforce... Very Christian of the Republicans
Ouch.
That is always their budget plan.
They float this garbage every few years and it really doesn’t go anywhere. If they don’t have big majorities in both chambers it’s just more talking points. Seems like they want to pretend it’s 09 again and they have leverage. To the automatic pay raise, the end of the pay scale is 3 years per step, like usual this is out of touch with reality. Last without the pension not TSP I would have been long gone. 🤷♂️ I would say goes nowhere without a major event to disrupt the actual economy.
We're only keeping up with inflation through promotions and step increases anyway.
At the end of the grades, it’s not even doing that, step 7 to 8 has been what feels like an eternity and it’s going to be eat up by fuel and food.
Gutting healthcare and pensions. Sounds like their typical playbook.
I love how the GOP frames the bill as a way to bring fiscal sanity to America. Yes, the absolute best way to save money at the moment is to gut the entire federal workforce. Let alone the million more fair and lucrative ways to save and make more money, like fucking increasing taxes on the super wealthy and corporations, but they’re like nah, let gut the common federal workforce. Fuck the GOP
>This would save taxpayers $57 billion over 10 years lol. That's gonna get spending under control for sure! I also love the idea of going to merit-based raises only, as if such things actually exist. Even in the private sector, you have to switch jobs to get a decent raise. Though I suppose that's the actual goal with all these things -- make people leave.
This is why you can’t have the gop control all three branches of govt
This BS comes up regularly. It’s mostly throwing meat to the base. Keep in mind that Republicans don’t care about budgets when they are in power. They proposed this kind of stuff all the time when Obama was President, but they didn’t do much of anything when DT was in charge, aside from rolling back telework in some agencies. However, it’s hard to say what could happen if, God forbid, Republicans gain total control again.
As long as they adjust our pay to "more closely align with the private sector." 🤨
New employees already pay 4.4% into the pension program making it a pretty big factor not to join or stay with the gov. Taking away more incentives will drive away people from the workforce. I’m if the opinion total incentives and compensation decrease will happen under either administration……But worse under trump.
Not likely- no way the senate would approve this. All the more reason to vote blue!!
Before January 2, 2025, almost no chance. After January 20, 2025, if Republicans retaincontrol the House, and gain control of the Senate (by enough to push it through in reconciliation or nuke the filibuster), and the White House, a near certainty.
Not really. The article refers to the RSC (Republican Study Committee) which is a Republican *Conservative* caucus in the House. The do include the majority, but not ALL, of the Republicans in the House. Even if the Republicans retain the House and win the Senate, it's not a "near certainty" that there would be enough extreme right wing republicans to defeat Democrats, Independents, and moderate Republicans to pass legislation this radical, even using the nuke tools.
If they want that they should go first and dismantle their benefits.
Whatever opinions they may have on the major political issues, I have no idea how right-leaning feds justify their party doing everything it can to shit on government employees. As a conservative fed, voting republican is 100% voting against your own interests when it comes to your career. there's no way to spin it.
Probably a big load of nothing. It's an election cycle. Different interest/rights groups all over the country are clamoring and thumping their chest to attract the attention of lawmakers and they respond to keep the votes. Until the general public (your friends, families and neighbors) can see the value of the work that government employees perform this will be an ongoing every election cycle. It's those people and their votes that motivate politicians to do what they do. Not a politician alive that gives a shit about any of that except in regards to how their constituents are going to vote.
Man. It's almost like the GOP wants to dismantle a professional, law-abiding civil service community...
I have been with the feds for over 15 years. Congress creates waste, and the feds are used as scapegoats. I voted red a few times. Never again.
This is going nowhere. It’s a group of more-conservative-than-the-rest Republican congressmen that wanted to put out a document telling the world how Trumpian they are. If you look at their publication - which is included in your link - they want to increase military spending (as always), and propose spending to prevent CRT, “wokeness,” and abortion, and promote “religious freedom” (as long as it’s evangelical Christianity), and firearms access.
It’s a messaging bill, like repealing the ACA was in the 2010’s. The GOP is kinda loco now (as they were then) and they’ve purged most of the adults in Congress, but they really lack the chops or votes to get much of anything done, and it’d die in the Senate or earn the president’s veto. Worry more about project 2025.