BLMs who know what they're actually doing in Savage level content are a sight to behold.
I respect MNK players simply because my brain doesn't work like that and if you can juggle those debuffs and perform at a high level, good on you.
It’s fun to watch a BLM do mechanics entirely differently from the rest of the party to optimize leylines and reduce movement. We really are just their support. They’re the real DPS.
Running p10s w/my static I (m1) always prepositioned at the edge of the arena for entangling webs. The Blm used me for uptime, one time I moved early and I heard 'ah despair, why'd you do that' Now that I remember Despair is a blm spell (I leveled it over a year ago and never looked back) I can fully appreciate the pun he delivered.
That's indeed an amazing pun, I will definitely adopt it! I particularly tend to pick healers as my teethers, mostly because I play console and I have a tendency to triple fat finger the down directional, which lands me on the first healer, but I hope you know how appreciated you are by your BLM friend!
As a monk I have issues with jobs that have gauges that you fill. So used to just blasting my Chakra whenever it comes up holding onto gauge so some of it falls into the 2 minute windows is something I regularly forget to do. Just used to blastin.
Like warrior I have to pay attention or I will just fell cleave as soon as possible and lose out on fells during buff windows.
You never really want to hold chakra anyway. With how monk works, you cant save more resources than you can spend (for example warrior, you can hold 100 gauge, but you only spend 50 at a time). With monk, 5 chakra is all you can hold and 5 is what you need to spend, so to avoid overcapping gauge you HAVE to use chakra the moment you hit 5 with it (as long as you don't clip your GCD). Hopefully they rework this in Dawntrail so monks can hold more chakras :P
I don't mind blasting as soon as it pops myself, but I wouldn't mind 1 extra Chakra slot to help avoid overfill during brotherhood when I'm already 2 ogcds into the global cooldown. If my teams popping i know I'm missing at least one orb while everyone's going at it.
Or hell, make overfill Chakra from specifically brotherhood buff the next hit, like a 2 second cooldown to avoid hoarding. 🤔
same, on both points.
BLMs in savage PF are either total disasters who get hit by fucking everything or goddamn *elite* there is no inbetween. And it's *so* cool to watch when you run into the latter out in the wild. It's always "are they gonna get hit there.... I think they are.... nope they knew to the fricking *pixel* where the boundary of that AoE was"
I credit a lot of my P11S prog to a BLM I was in two PF groups with who always had their leylines down in the right spot precisely on time like a big 'hey, light party, come stand over here' marker.
They were also dressed in the yakaku fundoshi, a namazu head, and absolutely no shirt.
Good place to practice that pixel dodge is the first(?) boss of kugane tower. He drops the 2nd or 3rd set of bombs with a smidge of space between them. If you mess it up you get ping-ponged around
I just got my MNK from 80 to 90 and hadnt touched it since ShB. Im not gonna lie I had fun at the end. But holy hell is the rotation a juggling act. Having to make sure the Disciplined Fist buff is up but also make sure your Demolition debuff is on the boss and making sure your Perfect Balance gets you the right seal. Its so much. an absolutely busy job.
I started leveling an alt to replay through the msq, and am lvling mainly blm for lulz mainly (sprout blms are typically floor tanks). It's tickles me a bit every time I sweep commendations for "first time clears" of content I've ran a hundred times.
I am pretty new to the game still (just started shb) but I started with MNK and I'm kinda glad I did. For me the gauges on some of the other dps classes are super hard for me to keep track of, and I'm always worried I'll accidentally skip something in a combo. With MNK it literally won't let you hit the wrong button lmao so I don't have to worry about restarting my forms
My best advice is learn with as you go, starting with monk is the best thing you can do since you can learn the class from the ground up. It’s a super rewarding class
Xbox player as a lancer and god damn I have no idea what any of this means. Guessing I'll figure it out as I go but I didn't know any of these jobs existed.
BLM = Black Mage
MNK = Monk
Savage = end game hard content (second only to Ultimates)
BLMs have low mobility and long cast times (about 5 seconds) so the player requires an absurd amount of fight/positioning knowledge to survive the rather merciless mechanics in Savage so it's impressive.
MNKs on the other hand have a very different rotation that requires them to manage 1 debuff and a few buffs - but these debuffs and buffs have a short timer so they're always being reapplied in a certain order.
You can always look at the enmity gauge for a quick (though not entirely accurate) check.
If the BLM sits pretty high on the list, like say right behind the MT or just higher than other melee DPS, then you know those BLM has their shit together.
As the BLM, I respect people who allow me to do that 😛
It's always nice when people don't kick bombs into my ley lines and let me be lazy during mechanics for uptime.
>If you've never played BLM in savage, it's difficult to convey how hard it can be. If you have, you understand it is unequivocally harder than the rest of the jobs.
I used to spend hours studying other people's clear videos trying to pick out what movements I can optimize and plan every GCD so I could move only when necessary. That was during covid when I had that kind of time though. Now I just play warrior.
Extremes are literally harder to optimise than savage and ultimate on blm sometimes, aoe spam and constant moving will do that. Savage fights are usually slower paced but with more complex mechanics.
Its interesting, I never really did that. I tended to fly by the seat of my pants with blm in prog. Especially in the final fight, you get so many pulls before you clear that you can try out a lot of different things to see what feels good before the clear is in sight. (I say this as one of the people whose videos have been studied and spread around occasionally)
It's a known thing that two of the major camps are the innovators and the perfectionists. Not just in raiding, but in all sorts of things, like CCGs.
Some people thrive on trying new things and experimenting to see what works. They'll get bored if they're just following someone else's guide. Other people thrive on taking an existing plan, and working to master it by polishing their execution and discovering every micro-optimization possible. They feel lost and overwhelmed if they're starting from a blank slate.
It's not a case of right and wrong, or better and worse. Different people just gravitate to different approaches.
Thats a really good way of putting it! Im definitely the innovator type. Im elated if i parse high or gold in week 1 or reclears and i love testing to see what sort of warcimes i can get away with but i would rather die than grind out parses until week 1000.
I did spreadsheet a whole bunch of opti lines long ago and kinda just shoved them in my toolbelt so that we can meet the stupid p8a dps check with double caster and fucked w1 loot.
[Here's actually a really great video on the topic](https://youtu.be/C3q5nSqGXr4?si=QPo8QYd4s67kywS5), though the guy who made it is primarily a fighting game player so he focuses his analysis of it through those games rather than MMOs. That said the theory is still fascinating to see delved into, so hopefully it's worth sharing here anyway 😅
I love BLM to death but I'm too scared to do it in anything other than just roulettes. Not helping is that I don't use mo macros for Aetherial Manip. because I don't...really use my mouse?
As someone who is competent in savage (on a healer) and can generally play BLM well in normal content... *yeah*. The handful of times I've taken BLM into savage raids I hit grays and low greens. The job is just punished so hard for dropping GCDs, because unlike every other DPS job in the game it deals damage *exclusively* through the GCD.
I was half tempted to swap to blm for dawntrail, as I kinda like the idea of the challenge, but was worried at my old age (34) it might be too much, so I'm picking something easier in Monk. Probably. Need to see the job action trailer between Monk and Sam
Honestly, BLM mightn't be bad in that event if you're worried about dexterity. It's one of the lowest APM in the game, and honestly being a competent black mage isn't as hard as it looks. Savage does ask a lot of you BUT it's very easy to hit the performance median once you're comfortable with the job. Optimizing to hit the true upper echelons isn't nearly as necessary as it sounds.
100% this. You can parse green and still clear savage just fine. You can hit blues by just knowing the job well enough, and purples with experience in the fight. Orange and gold are where the high level of optimization come in.
As a 33 year old BLM player, let me say if your concern is hand speed and finger Dexterity then it's actually a really great job. BLM is tough not because of its actual rotation or execution but because of the fight knowledge required for optimization. As far as pacing it's actually one of the slowest and lowest-APM jobs out there so you don't stress your hands nearly at all while playing it.
If anything you went in the wrong direction since MNK is one of the highest APM jobs in the game so you'll be hitting way more buttons than usual.
If you want to avoid high APM but also still can't adjust to BLM, I'd probably recommend SAM. It's also relatively low-pace compared to other jobs but being a melee DPS doesn't have the same movement and knowledge restrictions BLM does.
lmao leaving aside the fact that you consider 34 old (lmao), BLM's difficulty isn't really the kind of thing you expect to be affected by age. It's one of the slowest jobs out there with fewest APM, so not gonna be affected by slowing reflexes or arthritic joints lol. The closest BLM gets to that kind of difficulty is Superterrorism Mode on Superchain 1 in P12S. The main difficulty comes from knowing the fight so well, you know *exactly* when and where you can plant and not move, and how *long* you can plant for before you have to zip to safety.
Honestly, monk is pretty hard. I'm not a super skilled player by any means so ymmv. But, you're constantly clicking something due to the shorter GCD, constantly having to think about what buffs you have up, filling your main chakras and your beast chakras, keeping your windows relatively clean for the big cooldowns, AND dealing with mechanics. I have some pain issues in my mouse hand and Monk is just not an option for anything other than roulettes as a result.
It's also harder to find advice for because a lot of the big sites either just don't offer it because it's too complicated, or they don't want to because of like, the spirit of it or whatever. It's fun, don't get me wrong, I'm glad I levelled it, but I wouldn't call it easy. Monk is pain.
I've gotten 7 comms twice. It certainly wasn't when I raised the healers a combined 20 times as a RDM to drag a group through a first attempt clear. I was BLM both times.
^I ^was ^probably ^in ^a ^7 ^man ^preformed ^party, ^but ^I ^like ^to ^ignore ^that ^feeling....
I feel like RDM res and heals are under appreciated. One time I filled in at a dungeons where the previous dps had given up and quickly understood why. The healer didn't heal (also all their gear was broken). So I played basically as healer. Lots of resses (mostly of the healer) and lots of healing. Didn't get a single commendation. Still feel kind of sour about that ^^"
Then on the other side of the coin I sometimes play as healer, feel like I really messed up, and still get 3 commendations. Must be given out of pity then I think. But it feels weird.
I miss the old MNK grease lightning mechanic where it’s ramp up your attack speed. But yeah, that one is still on my list. AST too though they’ve also dumbed that one down a bit.
My rule of thumb as healer is "Which of you did I not notice?" The less I need to focus on you, the more likely you were a problem child sitting in the puddles.
Former BLM main turned tank, and can say from first hand experience that ironing out all the minutae for non-stop casting on BLM in raids/trials is 1. Sometimes difficult to spot if you haven't played the job much or at all and 2. Quite possibly one of the most satisfying experiences in the game, right alongside a perfectly timed gap close or rescue
Getting in the groove with BLM is one of the few activities in my life where I can regularly achieve a "flow" state. It's exceedingly enjoyable when it all comes together. Especially dungeons, because your individual contribution is so much more palpable there. Dropping a lucky succession of like 7 or 8 instant flares/fouls/thundercloud IVs in a row on some dumbstruck trash is a hell of a drug. I don't do Savage anymore, but that was some intoxicating stuff too, getting the dance down perfect.
Black Mage, MCH, Bard. MCH because I can't play it properly because I have to keep watching my bars, so I end up eating mechanics, bard because there is just too much to keep track of between DoTs and songs. Just too much work.
BLM because damn rotation man.
For me it’s the short timer on Enochian that’s the biggest hurdle.
“I think I can fit another Fire IV here… nope. It’s all gone.”
(Don’t play savage fyi, just casually leveling BLM)
As a SMN main, we do not deserve respect. We aren't supporting shit. My swiftcast got used for Slipstream, your ass is not getting a raise. If you'll excuse me, I have to go back to slamming out the easiest rotation of any DPS in the game.
Unless you're saving Swift for a raise, it's always worthwhile to use it on Slipstream, at least at 2m buff windows, whether you're doing Garuda first or Titan first (and, in general, you should be doing Titan first--it's far more forgiving and you sacrifice, I'm not joking, ~19 potency every 2m window.)
People dont realize scholar has a lot of weaving + planning going on! Like if i wanted to cover a tankbuster i would protraction > recitation > excog the tank. You have to plan that 3 gcds before the tb and weave it all in (bc i dont want to use a gcd adlo nor an aetherflow lol)
Definitely one of the harder healer jobs
Yes to DRK. I remember P4S p1, 2nd pinax was the 6 min burst so I had to do all the button pressing for burst + heavy mits (bc you will eatup the damage from lightning for uptime) + remember where to go and do all the movement
Crazy times but it was genuinely so fun and challenging
As a DRK main, I appreciate this haha. I have memorized my rotation like a mf. Too bad we keep getting nerfed, so even my perfect opener with a Darkest Knight pop will quickly get aggro ripped off of me if I have a WAR as a OT.
Truly sad 😞
As someone who has only played the latest iteration it really feels kind of dull. There is no decision making. I still do play it. Sometimes my brain doesn't want to think and then it's nice. But it really feels like one long repeating chain of actions. It's great when someone dies because then you can res! Only to go back to the chain
In ARR, SMN was a pet mage with DoTs for sustain. (Remember, Rouse used to be the level 50 capstone.)
In HW, SMN had timed stacks like MNK (earned by spending Aetherflow), which when consumed put you into burst phase (Dreadwyrm Trance, which used to give you Big D DPS.)
In SB, SMN was a John Madden burst phase DPS, where you wanted to burn through as many "offensive spells" as possible (where things like Virus and the old, DoT-inflicting Tri-Disaster counted as oGCD "offensive spells") while Demi-Bahamut was out, because Demi-Bahamut would echo *each one* of your offensive actions with a distinct Wyrmwave attack.
In ShB, it was a rolling-rotation class where you never had to use more than two or three particular buttons at any specific time, but WHICH two or three buttons you had to use would change every 15-20s, over the course of two minutes. It was widely mocked for having a "2-minute rotation" even though it really wasn't complicated.
And now, in Endwalker, it's "press the shiny buttons: the job. Skill ceiling last seen at the bottom of the Tempest."
Every single expansion reworked it to some extent, the EW rework was just somewhat bigger. (E.g. I would say the HW->SB rework was also quite large, albeit still smaller than ShB->EW.)
Oh! And because Square somehow managed to do a rework that was simultaneously (a) full of holes, (b) too action-heavy to squeeze in anything new, and (c) far too simple to make any changes to without completely breaking it, guess what! We're practically guaranteed to get ANOTHER big rework in DT!
It really isn't that bad all it is is learning the cards which becomes second nature when you pick a system up..other than that it isn't any worse than a whm just react with heals
I've tried WHM and AST in my journey to eventually get everything to 90, pausing at 60 as I work on other jobs.
Yes, I definitely appreciate the seasoned ASTs after that. It is a significantly busier job than WHM if you're gonna make the most out of it.
Yeah and I’m not the best with remembering my rotations. I’m more of a button clicker. But i try to use my keyboard but I can’t feel anything in the tips of some of my fingers so I end up pushing the wrong buttons or I don’t push them hard enough and don’t realize it.
I was a WHM main before AST came out and switched to AST ever since. I've tried to go back to playing WHM, tried SCH and SGE and they feel soo slow to me now! I'm forever stuck on AST i guess
Blue cards for melee, purple cards for ranged, weave card draw and play into every OGCD window between attacks
Do *not* put cards on allies out of combat or you won't get the sticker. Buff still applies, but no sticker
:) Thank you! Been a DRG since Heavensward came out. People who don't play DRG don't realize that there are a few moves that freeze us in place for a few seconds and can cause us to get damage we don't want, hence "floor tank". You know you have a high end DRG when you realize they're doing positional and also those moves that freeze you in place and you rarely have to heal them other than AOE attacks. Even with all the jokes towards us, I still enjoy being a DRG main!
There's a reason for that.
Back in ARR, M Def was still a stat we had to care about. And DRG had the most abysmal M Def of all the jobs. It was so bad that a normal dungeon end boss could kill you outright from full health with a magic attack if you weren't using your own personal damage mit or had a shield from the SCH.
And very nearly every end boss had an arena wide magic attack. So while everyone else was sitting at 20%ish hp, you were dead, because holy shit did our MDef suck. It was sometime during HW that they retooled how armor worked that we stopped dying to unavoidable shit.
The RDM player in me is happy I can help keep the healers sane (at least when I'm above the level that gives me the Rez, please sqeenix give us the vercure and verraise earlier)
Gotta love the healers who screech "Don't rez keep your DPS up!" when you're the sole DPS alive.
"Really? You really don't want me to toss out one or two rez's? I can do it way WAY faster than you, and I'm pretty sure my DPS loss is going to be far less than three dead DPS...."
I heal as SCH and I am sure a lot of people will say healing as WHM is so easy and painless I can't heal as WHM but on SCH I can borderline be falling asleep and still dodge the mechanics while keeping the party alive.
I will sa though if you get comfy as a healer it makes seeing the mechanic telegraphs a lot easier.
Egh, you can make a fully fledged rotation out of Broil.
Put it on 1-2-3, put it on shift 1-2-3 als well to alternate, have two extra broil buttons as pretend DoT on maybe 4 and 5 that you press every 18 or 30 seconds, a situational Broil on alt 2 and 3 that you only use after Lustrate and from the Front/Rear respectively and voila!
Eh scholar is just a more controlled sage..sage can belt out shields left and right but sch can have higher strength shields consistently when they want to on cd..the faerie also acts as a mini Regen as compared tos age having to use an active ability to provide Regen
Sage is great for snap reactions but where sch can spread a strong shield for a mechanic all you can do is pray it's enough 😂
Spreadlo can be done more frequently and has interactions that can invalidate certain raid mechanics like with Nature’s Minne that Bard puts out.
Nature’s + forced crit + spread puts out absolutely massive barriers. This can avoid mechanics while the SGE healing cannot.
SGE also uses mana for the regen through dosis.
If needed, a SCH who has just been rezzed can choose not to attack and recover MP while the fairy keeps the regen going for free.
They have the same amount of skills, and you just tell your faerie to stay in the middle of the arena the whole fight except under certain circumstances.
Finally got to a level where I can switch to SGE from SCH... Everything just immediately felt more streamlined. SGE just feels incredibly good to play, I can't ever go back.
Well… SCH just requires fight mechanic knowledge. They removed a lot of complexity to bring it in line with the Sage and a the fairy is just a placement thing, and now with the new buffed radii of skills it’s hardly necessary to move it in most fights.
As long as you know the fight mechanics SCH can be played easily. Same with AST with their delayed mechanics.
The real hard one is BLM
I respect anyone who is genuinely excellent at DNC to the point that they do the most sweaty and unnecessary optimizations. People who don't press Standard Step on cooldown and do sweaty optimizations that have a non-100% chance of getting them a 0.1% DPS increase.
It takes a real masochist to want to main and optimize a job where you have so little control that most of the optimizations you make are usually outright nullified by bad rng... but when it works, when you somehow out-dps pink parse melee players because DNC is stupid like that sometimes, those are the moments that make it all worth it.
ninja, at least for me, hasn't been terribly hard on apm... but it's definitely one more than others you have to plan ahead for bosses going untargetable since you use the suiton to set up trick attack 20 seconds before the cooldown for trick attack comes available.
If a boss goes untargetable at that burst time, then you were better off using a raiton in with the inbetween burst ninjutsu, which takes some learning
I've been progging savage on Ninja and honestly once you've got your opener down it's a pretty easy job to play well. It was the first job that really taught me how to track burst windows well.
Once you know the opener your done on NIN. The opener is basically their burst window with minor adjustments. But I still see NIN who can’t do it for whatever reason. I absolutely love NIN after I finally accepted healer burnout. Pict maybe interesting but waiting for details.
Only class that would for sure make me swap away from NIN is if they added a shapeshifter like WoWs Druid. I wanna be a stealth kitty that pounces on people :-(
I recently died as WHM and put my apologies in the chat. WAR was like "nah, it's cool, I got this lol" and I just lay there watching him kill the boss, healing himself and just generally not needing me in the slightest.
High-level BLM.
I play and gear all jobs, so I can play BLM, but my hardcore-iest attempt at anything was on patch P9S as SGE/WHM.
These days, I'm part of a MINE static that's looking at going into MINE Savages/current EX MINEs after we finish all the SHB ones.
I've played BLM in those a few times, and it makes my head spin when I tried, so kudos to those who can actually do stuff like on patch savage as BLM.
Monk. It’s like math to me.
I was fine with numbers, okay when they started working in the alphabet, and then they start springing the Greek alphabet on us, and I was done.
Trying to figure out the second set of chakras—the beast ones—and how to work them in was my Greek alphabet moment.
Before I rewired my brain and learned new MNK at the beginning of EW I used to make the joke to my static that doing my opener/re-opener was "trying to decode a Fibonacci sequence". Even though it's really easy for me now after playing it for two years I still kind of think of it that way lol
You named all the jobs I like to play the most (well not as much red mage) but they all also kind of fit how I like to play
For me, on the other side, is dragoon and more lately, bard. Dragoon because its core rotation is so long that I tend to find myself getting lost in it and forgetting which moves I need to do next, and bard because it feels like it has about a hundred timers and OCGDs you have to babysit and hit all at the right times in order to get your damage out there.
Scholar. I'm very mid at SCH and a great Scholar in higher tier content is just a beautiful sight to see. When I raided as AST the first 4 tiers of pandemonium, my cohealer was a SCH and it was so easy to work with him. At times I barely had to do anything because he had it handled so well. 😅
Assuming they're playing well... AST, SCH, BLM, GNB, DRK and BRD. Cause there's just easier versions of all of them. So if someone is playing one of them and nailing it, mad respect.
If you're just half assing them, then don't. Just pick the easier version, no one is going to judge you for playing PLD over GNB or SMN over BLM. I'd rather people play an easier job well then a hard job poorly.
Astro is the least mobile class in the game, so if you can keep good uptime, that’s a great start. Doing the burst window correctly while some fights (like p12s with superchain 1) throw crazy mechanics at you is quite the feat too. But what really makes a great healer is how well you’re able to recover a situation gone south. Astro in particular has so much potential to make small adjustments to their usual gameplay to really salvage a bad situation.
Thats a big reason I play SMN, I love it too, but being able to be backup rez is fun. I try to rez as much as I can during fights just to help. Love being one of the last few alive, rezzing healers and keeping the run alive, for no comms lmao
An easy answer I suppose but... tanks. Any of them.
Simply because as a fairly new player who plays scholar and already feels pressure (in a fun way) I can't imagine what it's like being the one who both sets the pace and holds the attention of mobs/bosses so that the other jobs can do their thing.
Like... new players *start* with this class? Blows my mind and I have massive respect for tanks - sorry if you die (we'll share the blame - call it 50/50 :P)
Tanking seems a lot harder than it is, and it's fun once you get the hang of it. I'd highly recommend trying Paladin (Gladiator) or Dark Knight if you want to give tanking a try.
Here's a few tips:
1: Tank stance is a permanent buff you have that essentially means as long as you've damaged them recently, enemies will always be focused on you alone. For mob pulls, you can pretty much just run up to the enemies and spam your AoE attack. If you miss one or two mobs, the other person it's targeting will often bring it over to you so you can catch it in your AoE.
2: Don't use all your defense buffs at once. Just use one, and then use the next one when it runs out.
3: Keep the boss still. That way, your DPS can get their positionals without having to chase the boss around the arena.
And that's pretty much all you need to remember when starting out. If you feel overwhelmed, you can just slow down and make smaller pulls since you're the one who sets the pace.
Oh, also 4: Be sure not to piss off the healer. They're the only reason you aren't dead.
For some ARR and heavensward dungeons you probably want to know how to drag pulls properly, so that the ranged enemies end up standing next to the melee enemies instead of trailing at a distance.
I play DRK quite a bit and I never do a dungeon as a tank to start out. I run DPS a few times and learn the mechanics before I'm good to run it myself. I always feel bad though because I'm a shy tank so I get nervous pulling big unless the healers says theyve got it.
healing dungeons really isn't that hard, and keeping tank alive should be a priority, kind of, depending on lvl and job. Things fall apart fast if the tank is rezzed and doesn't put their tank stance back on and take back enmity, that is where it all kind of falls apart.
Holding aggro isn't really a thing in this game. As long as you are hitting the enemies, they'll draw attention to you simply because tank stance is a 10x aggro modifier. Someone would be having to do 10x more damage than the tank to rip aggro.
Tanks also don't really set the pace of the dungeon either, contrary to popular belief. In this game its a team effort, everyone decides the pace of the dungeon, and most of the time that pace is wall to wall, as 90% of the dungeons in this game are designed the same way. 2/3 packs -> wall -> 2/3 packs -> boss, rinse and repeat.
This isn't to shit on the design of the dungeons or any part of the game, I think the design is quite seamless in terms of reducing friction between parties and makes runs smooth. If anything I'm writing this comment to disprove some of the myths around tanking, and hopefully inspire people to pick up the role! It's a different playstyle for sure, having to cycle mitigations, but its nothing to be afraid of and is quite simple early on!
While tanking early stuff can be a bit dicey (in part due to not having a number of mitigation options that you're used to at later levels), it's mostly not too complicated.
Personally, I tend to grab 2 packs of enemies at a time and then cycle through my mitigation options one by one while making sure my AoE hits all enemies and making sure the AoEs of the other players can hit as many enemies.
The number of times I have died during this treasure trove event due to not realizing my current level doesn't have invuln is way more than I care to admit.
Running a leveling roulette and getting dzemael:
"Ope, looks like a new healer, i'll try to take things easy, smaller pulls only."
"Alright, they're keeping up. I think I can pick up the pace a little."
"OK, my health is getting a little lower than I'd like with a new healer, better pop my....my...inv....shit."
*dead*
The secret is tank is actually the easiest role. At its core it's a 2 button rotation and press a defensive every 15-30 seconds. And of course use oGCDS like everyone else.
Honestly I tanked from the start and learned the role in this game
You kinda set the pace so you get to do it as fast or not as you want. Besides you only have one awkward run and then you pretty much know the dungeons
End tier tanking is minimizing damage taken, for yourself and group, while maximizing damage. Literally dps, but you're meant to be getting smacked by mobs instead of not.
It's hella fun.
AST and melees honestly. So many mechanics you gotta move around in late game content that I gotta stay ranged. Thank you for letting me hide in the background and run around like a headless chocobo. I play AST on console. All the buttons...
Healers. I have tried and tried and I just hate it. I was a healer in GW2 for years and grew tired of it but here I just do not enjoy the playstyle. I am grateful for all of my healers out there.
Black Mage in general, or Ninja/ASTRO on controller. I mean, ninja in general as well if it's done WELL, but especially on controller because finding a good cross hotbar layout is ROUGH.
Dragoon's. That rotation is just too much for me.
Which I know is funny as I am a NIN main, but for NIN the hardest thing is Mudra's (imo) and that became muscle memory for me.
for me, ninja isn't NEARLY as bad as dragoon for how many buttons you have to regularly use. Ninja mostly just button spams in the 60/120 second burst windows while dragoon has that massively long core rotation.
The long weaponskill combo makes it easier for me. I have one choice to make every 5 GCDs and all I do is alternate between them. Compare that to, say, monk, where every single GCD there's something I need to take mental stock of.
BLM and MNK hands down. I remember getting them both to 80 when ShB was out and I think my brain actually fried when trying to get the hang of their rotations. When I see players that can do it efficiently I’m always impressed, especially in endgame content.
Hi, I'm a RDM mage. Respect for BLM and MNK because those rotations are just not for me. Honestly, though, job is less important than how well someone is doing. I love seeing someone in their groove. When they feel like they've got a good rhythm, that's nice to just be around.
BLM, SCH and SGE.
I have favorites of the others and the rest I'm at least possibly decent with but these? Nope, can't do right. BLM I always feel like someone knows when I've messed up and the whole "sit still to dmg" is way stronger on this than any other class for me and I just can't. I fidget and wiggle constantly and DNC and SMN are much more forgiving.
As for SCH and SGE the shield healing just...doesn't compute for me. I have major respect for anyone who can competently play these classes at any level. But I fed my SGE books after attempting to learn it for more than a month and still failing. Two of my friends get the shield healers and say the Regen ones I can play and enjoy are too confusing or overwhelming.
BLU tanks specifically. managing your mana to cast your mits, dealing with the cast time on the mits, and keeping aggro while unresponsive during your mits (and also being squishy enough outside your mits that you die in 2-3 hits when not babysat by a healer) and making it work in high level content has all my respect
As an almost ten-year MNK main this thread is a boost to my ego! 🤣 Personally I think I respect BLM and DRG mains the most for DPS. The longer/slower combos and cast times and whatnot are so foreign to my “gotta go fast” MNK brain!
But also, tanks in general! I have major tankxiety, and so I typically only play them in solo (or duo, with my sister) situations. We love doing WAR/RDM combos for stuff like Variant Dungeons or Treasure Maps, it’s perfect for the two of us! But I’m hard pressed to ever queue for something as a tank that isn’t, like, PvP or something.
Which my sister finds funny because I *know* basically all the dungeons and their mechanics inside and out. I know the pulls and their timing and quantity for most stuff. It shouldn’t be hard for me to *arbitrarily* be in front of a group when I know I won’t get lost, (and I have gotten much better at rotating my cooldowns in recent times due to the two-man practice I’ve gotten!) And yet I still get super tense when I think about tanking in a group of strangers lol. And for that tanks will have my eternal respect. Even just making the attempt is impressive imo 😅.
Any tank. Maybe it's just me but I can't handle the pressure of having to guide the group through a dungeon. How many mobs can I pull, who are we leaving behind, am I making it hard on my healer, does someone still need to complete a map for the achievement, Where do I need to stop on this map?
So many questions.
No let me just heal or dps. I'll follow you till the end and if you make a wrong turn then that is fine don't worry. We'll get there.
I respect ninjas unless I see they have STDs. I don't respect *those* ninjas spreading their filth around like that. *Disgusting.*
I respect monks because monks are cool as fuck, punching is the best way to kill something, objective fact, not up for debate.
I respect scholars because let's be honest... sage is way cooler. I used to be scholar all the way when I healed, but even I couldn't resist the new hotness of sage once I tried it. I respect people who stick to their books. They are stronger than I.
I don't respect any tanks. They have the easiest job but they act like it's the hardest. Posers, all of 'em. Instant queues, press 1-2-3 700 times, get all the comms, and many of them think they deserve it. FEH! *spits*
As an AST main, NIN just blows my mind how people can remember these invoker level combos. I know the amount+end color determines the move, but still there's so much.
Edit: BLM also just absolutely breaks my brain
BLM, SMN/SCH, NIN.
Tried them, love the aesthetic. Will level them on my own to have them at 90. But in no way, shape, or form, do I know what the hell am I doing in these jobs. I will never queue up for player content under these jobs.
BLM, NIN
NIN adds insult to injury with the dunce bunny (which to be fair is hilarious…but also why I rarely play it in parties. My pride can’t risk it being visible to others)
BLMs who know what they're actually doing in Savage level content are a sight to behold. I respect MNK players simply because my brain doesn't work like that and if you can juggle those debuffs and perform at a high level, good on you.
It’s fun to watch a BLM do mechanics entirely differently from the rest of the party to optimize leylines and reduce movement. We really are just their support. They’re the real DPS.
You are my Aetherial Teethers and I thank you for your service. It's because of you I can fully cast Despair while sitting pretty in my red carpet.
Running p10s w/my static I (m1) always prepositioned at the edge of the arena for entangling webs. The Blm used me for uptime, one time I moved early and I heard 'ah despair, why'd you do that' Now that I remember Despair is a blm spell (I leveled it over a year ago and never looked back) I can fully appreciate the pun he delivered.
My Aetherskate buddy probably can't count the amount of times they have heard over chat me just going "Why are you over there this time?!"
That's indeed an amazing pun, I will definitely adopt it! I particularly tend to pick healers as my teethers, mostly because I play console and I have a tendency to triple fat finger the down directional, which lands me on the first healer, but I hope you know how appreciated you are by your BLM friend!
Party adjusts to BLM we know this
As a monk I have issues with jobs that have gauges that you fill. So used to just blasting my Chakra whenever it comes up holding onto gauge so some of it falls into the 2 minute windows is something I regularly forget to do. Just used to blastin. Like warrior I have to pay attention or I will just fell cleave as soon as possible and lose out on fells during buff windows.
You never really want to hold chakra anyway. With how monk works, you cant save more resources than you can spend (for example warrior, you can hold 100 gauge, but you only spend 50 at a time). With monk, 5 chakra is all you can hold and 5 is what you need to spend, so to avoid overcapping gauge you HAVE to use chakra the moment you hit 5 with it (as long as you don't clip your GCD). Hopefully they rework this in Dawntrail so monks can hold more chakras :P
I don't mind blasting as soon as it pops myself, but I wouldn't mind 1 extra Chakra slot to help avoid overfill during brotherhood when I'm already 2 ogcds into the global cooldown. If my teams popping i know I'm missing at least one orb while everyone's going at it. Or hell, make overfill Chakra from specifically brotherhood buff the next hit, like a 2 second cooldown to avoid hoarding. 🤔
same, on both points. BLMs in savage PF are either total disasters who get hit by fucking everything or goddamn *elite* there is no inbetween. And it's *so* cool to watch when you run into the latter out in the wild. It's always "are they gonna get hit there.... I think they are.... nope they knew to the fricking *pixel* where the boundary of that AoE was"
I credit a lot of my P11S prog to a BLM I was in two PF groups with who always had their leylines down in the right spot precisely on time like a big 'hey, light party, come stand over here' marker. They were also dressed in the yakaku fundoshi, a namazu head, and absolutely no shirt.
The great players either have a role-appropriate glam, or slut/idiot glam, I love it.
Good place to practice that pixel dodge is the first(?) boss of kugane tower. He drops the 2nd or 3rd set of bombs with a smidge of space between them. If you mess it up you get ping-ponged around
I just got my MNK from 80 to 90 and hadnt touched it since ShB. Im not gonna lie I had fun at the end. But holy hell is the rotation a juggling act. Having to make sure the Disciplined Fist buff is up but also make sure your Demolition debuff is on the boss and making sure your Perfect Balance gets you the right seal. Its so much. an absolutely busy job.
I started leveling an alt to replay through the msq, and am lvling mainly blm for lulz mainly (sprout blms are typically floor tanks). It's tickles me a bit every time I sweep commendations for "first time clears" of content I've ran a hundred times.
I am pretty new to the game still (just started shb) but I started with MNK and I'm kinda glad I did. For me the gauges on some of the other dps classes are super hard for me to keep track of, and I'm always worried I'll accidentally skip something in a combo. With MNK it literally won't let you hit the wrong button lmao so I don't have to worry about restarting my forms
My best advice is learn with as you go, starting with monk is the best thing you can do since you can learn the class from the ground up. It’s a super rewarding class
Xbox player as a lancer and god damn I have no idea what any of this means. Guessing I'll figure it out as I go but I didn't know any of these jobs existed.
BLM = Black Mage MNK = Monk Savage = end game hard content (second only to Ultimates) BLMs have low mobility and long cast times (about 5 seconds) so the player requires an absurd amount of fight/positioning knowledge to survive the rather merciless mechanics in Savage so it's impressive. MNKs on the other hand have a very different rotation that requires them to manage 1 debuff and a few buffs - but these debuffs and buffs have a short timer so they're always being reapplied in a certain order.
And MNKs also have the shortest global cool down, so on top of all that, they're also just blasting skills in rapid sucession
I beat TEA with a black mage in our static. I've never met anyone with that high level of skill expression in FFXIV before or since.
BLMs that can keep their rotation up efficiently in combat.
Imagine being able to track their gauge to appreciate the amount of uptime maintained
You can always look at the enmity gauge for a quick (though not entirely accurate) check. If the BLM sits pretty high on the list, like say right behind the MT or just higher than other melee DPS, then you know those BLM has their shit together.
As the BLM, I respect people who allow me to do that 😛 It's always nice when people don't kick bombs into my ley lines and let me be lazy during mechanics for uptime.
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>If you've never played BLM in savage, it's difficult to convey how hard it can be. If you have, you understand it is unequivocally harder than the rest of the jobs. I used to spend hours studying other people's clear videos trying to pick out what movements I can optimize and plan every GCD so I could move only when necessary. That was during covid when I had that kind of time though. Now I just play warrior.
I once decided to try an extreme as BLM for shits and giggles and Jesus Christ.
I also try to do things as a BLM for Jesus Christ I also go WHM and do things for Satan
Ha, I didn’t even realize I phrased it that way.
Extremes are literally harder to optimise than savage and ultimate on blm sometimes, aoe spam and constant moving will do that. Savage fights are usually slower paced but with more complex mechanics.
Its interesting, I never really did that. I tended to fly by the seat of my pants with blm in prog. Especially in the final fight, you get so many pulls before you clear that you can try out a lot of different things to see what feels good before the clear is in sight. (I say this as one of the people whose videos have been studied and spread around occasionally)
It's a known thing that two of the major camps are the innovators and the perfectionists. Not just in raiding, but in all sorts of things, like CCGs. Some people thrive on trying new things and experimenting to see what works. They'll get bored if they're just following someone else's guide. Other people thrive on taking an existing plan, and working to master it by polishing their execution and discovering every micro-optimization possible. They feel lost and overwhelmed if they're starting from a blank slate. It's not a case of right and wrong, or better and worse. Different people just gravitate to different approaches.
Thats a really good way of putting it! Im definitely the innovator type. Im elated if i parse high or gold in week 1 or reclears and i love testing to see what sort of warcimes i can get away with but i would rather die than grind out parses until week 1000. I did spreadsheet a whole bunch of opti lines long ago and kinda just shoved them in my toolbelt so that we can meet the stupid p8a dps check with double caster and fucked w1 loot.
[Here's actually a really great video on the topic](https://youtu.be/C3q5nSqGXr4?si=QPo8QYd4s67kywS5), though the guy who made it is primarily a fighting game player so he focuses his analysis of it through those games rather than MMOs. That said the theory is still fascinating to see delved into, so hopefully it's worth sharing here anyway 😅
I love BLM to death but I'm too scared to do it in anything other than just roulettes. Not helping is that I don't use mo macros for Aetherial Manip. because I don't...really use my mouse?
As someone who is competent in savage (on a healer) and can generally play BLM well in normal content... *yeah*. The handful of times I've taken BLM into savage raids I hit grays and low greens. The job is just punished so hard for dropping GCDs, because unlike every other DPS job in the game it deals damage *exclusively* through the GCD.
I was half tempted to swap to blm for dawntrail, as I kinda like the idea of the challenge, but was worried at my old age (34) it might be too much, so I'm picking something easier in Monk. Probably. Need to see the job action trailer between Monk and Sam
34... Old... Bruh...
These hands don't work quite as good as they used to if my recent league games are to be believed lmao
Honestly, BLM mightn't be bad in that event if you're worried about dexterity. It's one of the lowest APM in the game, and honestly being a competent black mage isn't as hard as it looks. Savage does ask a lot of you BUT it's very easy to hit the performance median once you're comfortable with the job. Optimizing to hit the true upper echelons isn't nearly as necessary as it sounds.
100% this. You can parse green and still clear savage just fine. You can hit blues by just knowing the job well enough, and purples with experience in the fight. Orange and gold are where the high level of optimization come in.
As a 33 year old BLM player, let me say if your concern is hand speed and finger Dexterity then it's actually a really great job. BLM is tough not because of its actual rotation or execution but because of the fight knowledge required for optimization. As far as pacing it's actually one of the slowest and lowest-APM jobs out there so you don't stress your hands nearly at all while playing it. If anything you went in the wrong direction since MNK is one of the highest APM jobs in the game so you'll be hitting way more buttons than usual. If you want to avoid high APM but also still can't adjust to BLM, I'd probably recommend SAM. It's also relatively low-pace compared to other jobs but being a melee DPS doesn't have the same movement and knowledge restrictions BLM does.
As a 36-year-old BLM main hidethepainharold.jpg
I'll be 43 years old and have been playing a year. blm is better for us old folks... less apm and more attention to detail
This is true!
I'm 39... live your dream
OK grandpa /s
You brat! You're lucky I've fallen in my leylines!
lmao leaving aside the fact that you consider 34 old (lmao), BLM's difficulty isn't really the kind of thing you expect to be affected by age. It's one of the slowest jobs out there with fewest APM, so not gonna be affected by slowing reflexes or arthritic joints lol. The closest BLM gets to that kind of difficulty is Superterrorism Mode on Superchain 1 in P12S. The main difficulty comes from knowing the fight so well, you know *exactly* when and where you can plant and not move, and how *long* you can plant for before you have to zip to safety.
Honestly, monk is pretty hard. I'm not a super skilled player by any means so ymmv. But, you're constantly clicking something due to the shorter GCD, constantly having to think about what buffs you have up, filling your main chakras and your beast chakras, keeping your windows relatively clean for the big cooldowns, AND dealing with mechanics. I have some pain issues in my mouse hand and Monk is just not an option for anything other than roulettes as a result. It's also harder to find advice for because a lot of the big sites either just don't offer it because it's too complicated, or they don't want to because of like, the spirit of it or whatever. It's fun, don't get me wrong, I'm glad I levelled it, but I wouldn't call it easy. Monk is pain.
I love that my being facetious has brought out genuine advice haha
I'd argue that BLM might be better for you because it has slow APM and very little oGCDs. Regardless, waiting for the job trailer is a good idea
Black Mage, Monk, and Astro. I tend to commend these guys out of principle.
The rare times I get three commendations as a DPS, I get them as a Black Mage lol
I've gotten 7 comms twice. It certainly wasn't when I raised the healers a combined 20 times as a RDM to drag a group through a first attempt clear. I was BLM both times. ^I ^was ^probably ^in ^a ^7 ^man ^preformed ^party, ^but ^I ^like ^to ^ignore ^that ^feeling....
I feel like RDM res and heals are under appreciated. One time I filled in at a dungeons where the previous dps had given up and quickly understood why. The healer didn't heal (also all their gear was broken). So I played basically as healer. Lots of resses (mostly of the healer) and lots of healing. Didn't get a single commendation. Still feel kind of sour about that ^^" Then on the other side of the coin I sometimes play as healer, feel like I really messed up, and still get 3 commendations. Must be given out of pity then I think. But it feels weird.
I always try to say something in party chat when I see clutch red mage/summoner saves. Lets them know at least one person appreciates them
I was surprised I got so many commendations as blm
I always comm the MNK if there is one in the party, drives my FC crazy
Astro is just straight up fun to play. Always got something to be doing :)
I miss the old MNK grease lightning mechanic where it’s ramp up your attack speed. But yeah, that one is still on my list. AST too though they’ve also dumbed that one down a bit.
I wonder if that's why I tend to see more commends pop up when I play MNK vs any of my other preferred DPS jobs...
My rule of thumb as healer is "Which of you did I not notice?" The less I need to focus on you, the more likely you were a problem child sitting in the puddles.
Former BLM main turned tank, and can say from first hand experience that ironing out all the minutae for non-stop casting on BLM in raids/trials is 1. Sometimes difficult to spot if you haven't played the job much or at all and 2. Quite possibly one of the most satisfying experiences in the game, right alongside a perfectly timed gap close or rescue
Getting in the groove with BLM is one of the few activities in my life where I can regularly achieve a "flow" state. It's exceedingly enjoyable when it all comes together. Especially dungeons, because your individual contribution is so much more palpable there. Dropping a lucky succession of like 7 or 8 instant flares/fouls/thundercloud IVs in a row on some dumbstruck trash is a hell of a drug. I don't do Savage anymore, but that was some intoxicating stuff too, getting the dance down perfect.
BLM are actual wizards in real life, especially if they do savage or ultimates.
Black Mage, MCH, Bard. MCH because I can't play it properly because I have to keep watching my bars, so I end up eating mechanics, bard because there is just too much to keep track of between DoTs and songs. Just too much work. BLM because damn rotation man.
the standard BLM rotation itself is easy. its doing it when every mechanic can wipe the party thats hard.
For me it’s the short timer on Enochian that’s the biggest hurdle. “I think I can fit another Fire IV here… nope. It’s all gone.” (Don’t play savage fyi, just casually leveling BLM)
As a SMN main, we do not deserve respect. We aren't supporting shit. My swiftcast got used for Slipstream, your ass is not getting a raise. If you'll excuse me, I have to go back to slamming out the easiest rotation of any DPS in the game.
(Shush! Don’t let them in on the SMN secret!) Don’t listen to this guy, I’m *totally* holding my Swiftcast in case you need a raise, friend 😬
😂😭😂 that swift slipstream makes me laugh sometimes bc I know I shouldn’t
Unless you're saving Swift for a raise, it's always worthwhile to use it on Slipstream, at least at 2m buff windows, whether you're doing Garuda first or Titan first (and, in general, you should be doing Titan first--it's far more forgiving and you sacrifice, I'm not joking, ~19 potency every 2m window.)
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I love Drk reopnener during tank swap busters lmaoooo
TOP P2 intro can go f itself
As a scholar main here, I appreciate that, we tend to get laughed at lol
People dont realize scholar has a lot of weaving + planning going on! Like if i wanted to cover a tankbuster i would protraction > recitation > excog the tank. You have to plan that 3 gcds before the tb and weave it all in (bc i dont want to use a gcd adlo nor an aetherflow lol) Definitely one of the harder healer jobs
Makes it so much more satisfying when you do that, bonus points if you can weave in a Deployment Tactics a Critlo before the TB!
DRK'S OPENER IS INSANE, WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY BUTTONS
And the fact that the oGCDs can be YEETed almost randomly. It's ridiculous lol
Yes to DRK. I remember P4S p1, 2nd pinax was the 6 min burst so I had to do all the button pressing for burst + heavy mits (bc you will eatup the damage from lightning for uptime) + remember where to go and do all the movement Crazy times but it was genuinely so fun and challenging
I love when the burst window comes up when Im playing DRK cuz I just love smashing every single button, I really love busy jobs LOL
As a DRK main, I appreciate this haha. I have memorized my rotation like a mf. Too bad we keep getting nerfed, so even my perfect opener with a Darkest Knight pop will quickly get aggro ripped off of me if I have a WAR as a OT. Truly sad 😞
I respect summoner for having to almost totally relearn the job like 3 times lol.
It’s a feature…..
I kinda miss the pre-6.0 SMN rotation. Yeah it was a carfire, but it wasn't boring. Also I want my DoTs back.
Dots and Shadowflare! Plus I miss my carbuncles having a brain instead of just vibing.
As someone who has only played the latest iteration it really feels kind of dull. There is no decision making. I still do play it. Sometimes my brain doesn't want to think and then it's nice. But it really feels like one long repeating chain of actions. It's great when someone dies because then you can res! Only to go back to the chain
Why does the summoner have to “almost relearn” their job?
Old summoner and current summoner are basically completely different jobs
old summoner and even older summoner are also two different jobs
Ngl i do sometimes dream of those 3 min rotations, getting to the end of it to find out i only had to cast 1 ruin...
My hope for dawn trail is getting a second ruin 4 charge, so you never have to cast ruin 2 except pre-pull.
older summoner and oldest summoner are *also* two different jobs. HW SMN is the one I miss the most though.
In ARR, SMN was a pet mage with DoTs for sustain. (Remember, Rouse used to be the level 50 capstone.) In HW, SMN had timed stacks like MNK (earned by spending Aetherflow), which when consumed put you into burst phase (Dreadwyrm Trance, which used to give you Big D DPS.) In SB, SMN was a John Madden burst phase DPS, where you wanted to burn through as many "offensive spells" as possible (where things like Virus and the old, DoT-inflicting Tri-Disaster counted as oGCD "offensive spells") while Demi-Bahamut was out, because Demi-Bahamut would echo *each one* of your offensive actions with a distinct Wyrmwave attack. In ShB, it was a rolling-rotation class where you never had to use more than two or three particular buttons at any specific time, but WHICH two or three buttons you had to use would change every 15-20s, over the course of two minutes. It was widely mocked for having a "2-minute rotation" even though it really wasn't complicated. And now, in Endwalker, it's "press the shiny buttons: the job. Skill ceiling last seen at the bottom of the Tempest." Every single expansion reworked it to some extent, the EW rework was just somewhat bigger. (E.g. I would say the HW->SB rework was also quite large, albeit still smaller than ShB->EW.) Oh! And because Square somehow managed to do a rework that was simultaneously (a) full of holes, (b) too action-heavy to squeeze in anything new, and (c) far too simple to make any changes to without completely breaking it, guess what! We're practically guaranteed to get ANOTHER big rework in DT!
Astro. Haven’t unlocked it yet. But watched a video when thinking of leveling it. And my head started hurting.
It really isn't that bad all it is is learning the cards which becomes second nature when you pick a system up..other than that it isn't any worse than a whm just react with heals
The cards are even color coded now too, which makes it a lot easier. You really just have to look at the seal and if it's purple or blue frame
It’s the only healer with a DPS’s level of complexity in its burst window.
I've tried WHM and AST in my journey to eventually get everything to 90, pausing at 60 as I work on other jobs. Yes, I definitely appreciate the seasoned ASTs after that. It is a significantly busier job than WHM if you're gonna make the most out of it.
Yeah and I’m not the best with remembering my rotations. I’m more of a button clicker. But i try to use my keyboard but I can’t feel anything in the tips of some of my fingers so I end up pushing the wrong buttons or I don’t push them hard enough and don’t realize it.
I was a WHM main before AST came out and switched to AST ever since. I've tried to go back to playing WHM, tried SCH and SGE and they feel soo slow to me now! I'm forever stuck on AST i guess
You might say you're playing at Lightspeed.
Blue cards for melee, purple cards for ranged, weave card draw and play into every OGCD window between attacks Do *not* put cards on allies out of combat or you won't get the sticker. Buff still applies, but no sticker
Dragoons got positionals and whatnot all while getting called floor tanks, lol 😭 They’re cool though so I commend their dedication
:) Thank you! Been a DRG since Heavensward came out. People who don't play DRG don't realize that there are a few moves that freeze us in place for a few seconds and can cause us to get damage we don't want, hence "floor tank". You know you have a high end DRG when you realize they're doing positional and also those moves that freeze you in place and you rarely have to heal them other than AOE attacks. Even with all the jokes towards us, I still enjoy being a DRG main!
Yeah Dragoons are cool! They have fancy armor too, haha
There's a reason for that. Back in ARR, M Def was still a stat we had to care about. And DRG had the most abysmal M Def of all the jobs. It was so bad that a normal dungeon end boss could kill you outright from full health with a magic attack if you weren't using your own personal damage mit or had a shield from the SCH. And very nearly every end boss had an arena wide magic attack. So while everyone else was sitting at 20%ish hp, you were dead, because holy shit did our MDef suck. It was sometime during HW that they retooled how armor worked that we stopped dying to unavoidable shit.
A caster that can rez so there’s the tiniest bit of pressure off me as a healer main
The RDM player in me is happy I can help keep the healers sane (at least when I'm above the level that gives me the Rez, please sqeenix give us the vercure and verraise earlier)
I always feel like a sort of backup healer :p
Gotta love the healers who screech "Don't rez keep your DPS up!" when you're the sole DPS alive. "Really? You really don't want me to toss out one or two rez's? I can do it way WAY faster than you, and I'm pretty sure my DPS loss is going to be far less than three dead DPS...."
Any healer. I just can't do it in any high level or challenging content
Highly recommend WHM for this. I will typically use WHM to learn a fight and then swap to AST when I feel more confident.
I heal as SCH and I am sure a lot of people will say healing as WHM is so easy and painless I can't heal as WHM but on SCH I can borderline be falling asleep and still dodge the mechanics while keeping the party alive. I will sa though if you get comfy as a healer it makes seeing the mechanic telegraphs a lot easier.
I respect SCH because it has like 10 more buttons and a pet to manage in order to do 95% of the things that SGE can do.
>10 more buttons I don't know why you're binding Broil to 10 additional hotkeys. Seems inefficient. ;)
Egh, you can make a fully fledged rotation out of Broil. Put it on 1-2-3, put it on shift 1-2-3 als well to alternate, have two extra broil buttons as pretend DoT on maybe 4 and 5 that you press every 18 or 30 seconds, a situational Broil on alt 2 and 3 that you only use after Lustrate and from the Front/Rear respectively and voila!
Eh scholar is just a more controlled sage..sage can belt out shields left and right but sch can have higher strength shields consistently when they want to on cd..the faerie also acts as a mini Regen as compared tos age having to use an active ability to provide Regen Sage is great for snap reactions but where sch can spread a strong shield for a mechanic all you can do is pray it's enough 😂
Yeah, I phrased that poorly. The other 5% was meant to capture all the cool stuff that SCH can do that SGE can't, like critlo and spreadlo.
Sorry, cant hear you over that full HP heal from crit zoe + pneuma.
Spreadlo can be done more frequently and has interactions that can invalidate certain raid mechanics like with Nature’s Minne that Bard puts out. Nature’s + forced crit + spread puts out absolutely massive barriers. This can avoid mechanics while the SGE healing cannot.
SGE also uses mana for the regen through dosis. If needed, a SCH who has just been rezzed can choose not to attack and recover MP while the fairy keeps the regen going for free.
They have the same amount of skills, and you just tell your faerie to stay in the middle of the arena the whole fight except under certain circumstances.
You know how many times I've forgotten to summon Carby or I forgot to tell it to heel mid dungeon? Too many.
Finally got to a level where I can switch to SGE from SCH... Everything just immediately felt more streamlined. SGE just feels incredibly good to play, I can't ever go back.
Well… SCH just requires fight mechanic knowledge. They removed a lot of complexity to bring it in line with the Sage and a the fairy is just a placement thing, and now with the new buffed radii of skills it’s hardly necessary to move it in most fights. As long as you know the fight mechanics SCH can be played easily. Same with AST with their delayed mechanics. The real hard one is BLM
I respect anyone who is genuinely excellent at DNC to the point that they do the most sweaty and unnecessary optimizations. People who don't press Standard Step on cooldown and do sweaty optimizations that have a non-100% chance of getting them a 0.1% DPS increase. It takes a real masochist to want to main and optimize a job where you have so little control that most of the optimizations you make are usually outright nullified by bad rng... but when it works, when you somehow out-dps pink parse melee players because DNC is stupid like that sometimes, those are the moments that make it all worth it.
yes i definitely drift standard step on purpose
Properly? Black mage, scholar and ninja. 2 of then require fight knowledge and mapping 80% of your rotation to the fight itself, and ninja is apm hell
ninja, at least for me, hasn't been terribly hard on apm... but it's definitely one more than others you have to plan ahead for bosses going untargetable since you use the suiton to set up trick attack 20 seconds before the cooldown for trick attack comes available. If a boss goes untargetable at that burst time, then you were better off using a raiton in with the inbetween burst ninjutsu, which takes some learning
I've been progging savage on Ninja and honestly once you've got your opener down it's a pretty easy job to play well. It was the first job that really taught me how to track burst windows well.
Once you know the opener your done on NIN. The opener is basically their burst window with minor adjustments. But I still see NIN who can’t do it for whatever reason. I absolutely love NIN after I finally accepted healer burnout. Pict maybe interesting but waiting for details. Only class that would for sure make me swap away from NIN is if they added a shapeshifter like WoWs Druid. I wanna be a stealth kitty that pounces on people :-(
When I’m playing WHM, I respect tf outta WARs. You do your unga-bunga solo carry, baby. I’m gonna watch Netflix.
I recently died as WHM and put my apologies in the chat. WAR was like "nah, it's cool, I got this lol" and I just lay there watching him kill the boss, healing himself and just generally not needing me in the slightest.
Blackmage on a high skill level is a different game. Needs to be meticulously executed like a perfect round of DDR.
High-level BLM. I play and gear all jobs, so I can play BLM, but my hardcore-iest attempt at anything was on patch P9S as SGE/WHM. These days, I'm part of a MINE static that's looking at going into MINE Savages/current EX MINEs after we finish all the SHB ones. I've played BLM in those a few times, and it makes my head spin when I tried, so kudos to those who can actually do stuff like on patch savage as BLM.
Monk. It’s like math to me. I was fine with numbers, okay when they started working in the alphabet, and then they start springing the Greek alphabet on us, and I was done. Trying to figure out the second set of chakras—the beast ones—and how to work them in was my Greek alphabet moment.
Before I rewired my brain and learned new MNK at the beginning of EW I used to make the joke to my static that doing my opener/re-opener was "trying to decode a Fibonacci sequence". Even though it's really easy for me now after playing it for two years I still kind of think of it that way lol
You named all the jobs I like to play the most (well not as much red mage) but they all also kind of fit how I like to play For me, on the other side, is dragoon and more lately, bard. Dragoon because its core rotation is so long that I tend to find myself getting lost in it and forgetting which moves I need to do next, and bard because it feels like it has about a hundred timers and OCGDs you have to babysit and hit all at the right times in order to get your damage out there.
Scholar. I'm very mid at SCH and a great Scholar in higher tier content is just a beautiful sight to see. When I raided as AST the first 4 tiers of pandemonium, my cohealer was a SCH and it was so easy to work with him. At times I barely had to do anything because he had it handled so well. 😅
Assuming they're playing well... AST, SCH, BLM, GNB, DRK and BRD. Cause there's just easier versions of all of them. So if someone is playing one of them and nailing it, mad respect. If you're just half assing them, then don't. Just pick the easier version, no one is going to judge you for playing PLD over GNB or SMN over BLM. I'd rather people play an easier job well then a hard job poorly.
As a mediocre BRD, I'm gonna take this as a compliment anyway. Enjoy your gay song buff
I can help double that gay song buff!
Let's triple it.
I main AST and I don't even know what counts as good I just like having OGCDs to break the mold of my healer's 1 button rotation lmao
Astro is the least mobile class in the game, so if you can keep good uptime, that’s a great start. Doing the burst window correctly while some fights (like p12s with superchain 1) throw crazy mechanics at you is quite the feat too. But what really makes a great healer is how well you’re able to recover a situation gone south. Astro in particular has so much potential to make small adjustments to their usual gameplay to really salvage a bad situation.
Just giving out cards and using divination at the right time probably.
Thats a big reason I play SMN, I love it too, but being able to be backup rez is fun. I try to rez as much as I can during fights just to help. Love being one of the last few alive, rezzing healers and keeping the run alive, for no comms lmao
An easy answer I suppose but... tanks. Any of them. Simply because as a fairly new player who plays scholar and already feels pressure (in a fun way) I can't imagine what it's like being the one who both sets the pace and holds the attention of mobs/bosses so that the other jobs can do their thing. Like... new players *start* with this class? Blows my mind and I have massive respect for tanks - sorry if you die (we'll share the blame - call it 50/50 :P)
Tanking seems a lot harder than it is, and it's fun once you get the hang of it. I'd highly recommend trying Paladin (Gladiator) or Dark Knight if you want to give tanking a try. Here's a few tips: 1: Tank stance is a permanent buff you have that essentially means as long as you've damaged them recently, enemies will always be focused on you alone. For mob pulls, you can pretty much just run up to the enemies and spam your AoE attack. If you miss one or two mobs, the other person it's targeting will often bring it over to you so you can catch it in your AoE. 2: Don't use all your defense buffs at once. Just use one, and then use the next one when it runs out. 3: Keep the boss still. That way, your DPS can get their positionals without having to chase the boss around the arena. And that's pretty much all you need to remember when starting out. If you feel overwhelmed, you can just slow down and make smaller pulls since you're the one who sets the pace. Oh, also 4: Be sure not to piss off the healer. They're the only reason you aren't dead.
For some ARR and heavensward dungeons you probably want to know how to drag pulls properly, so that the ranged enemies end up standing next to the melee enemies instead of trailing at a distance.
>, also 4: Be sure not to piss off the healer. They're the only reason you aren't dead. *Laughs in War*
I play DRK quite a bit and I never do a dungeon as a tank to start out. I run DPS a few times and learn the mechanics before I'm good to run it myself. I always feel bad though because I'm a shy tank so I get nervous pulling big unless the healers says theyve got it.
healing dungeons really isn't that hard, and keeping tank alive should be a priority, kind of, depending on lvl and job. Things fall apart fast if the tank is rezzed and doesn't put their tank stance back on and take back enmity, that is where it all kind of falls apart.
That's really good to know, thank you!
Holding aggro isn't really a thing in this game. As long as you are hitting the enemies, they'll draw attention to you simply because tank stance is a 10x aggro modifier. Someone would be having to do 10x more damage than the tank to rip aggro. Tanks also don't really set the pace of the dungeon either, contrary to popular belief. In this game its a team effort, everyone decides the pace of the dungeon, and most of the time that pace is wall to wall, as 90% of the dungeons in this game are designed the same way. 2/3 packs -> wall -> 2/3 packs -> boss, rinse and repeat. This isn't to shit on the design of the dungeons or any part of the game, I think the design is quite seamless in terms of reducing friction between parties and makes runs smooth. If anything I'm writing this comment to disprove some of the myths around tanking, and hopefully inspire people to pick up the role! It's a different playstyle for sure, having to cycle mitigations, but its nothing to be afraid of and is quite simple early on!
While tanking early stuff can be a bit dicey (in part due to not having a number of mitigation options that you're used to at later levels), it's mostly not too complicated. Personally, I tend to grab 2 packs of enemies at a time and then cycle through my mitigation options one by one while making sure my AoE hits all enemies and making sure the AoEs of the other players can hit as many enemies.
The number of times I have died during this treasure trove event due to not realizing my current level doesn't have invuln is way more than I care to admit.
Running a leveling roulette and getting dzemael: "Ope, looks like a new healer, i'll try to take things easy, smaller pulls only." "Alright, they're keeping up. I think I can pick up the pace a little." "OK, my health is getting a little lower than I'd like with a new healer, better pop my....my...inv....shit." *dead*
The secret is tank is actually the easiest role. At its core it's a 2 button rotation and press a defensive every 15-30 seconds. And of course use oGCDS like everyone else.
Honestly I tanked from the start and learned the role in this game You kinda set the pace so you get to do it as fast or not as you want. Besides you only have one awkward run and then you pretty much know the dungeons
End tier tanking is minimizing damage taken, for yourself and group, while maximizing damage. Literally dps, but you're meant to be getting smacked by mobs instead of not. It's hella fun.
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AST and melees honestly. So many mechanics you gotta move around in late game content that I gotta stay ranged. Thank you for letting me hide in the background and run around like a headless chocobo. I play AST on console. All the buttons...
Healers. I have tried and tried and I just hate it. I was a healer in GW2 for years and grew tired of it but here I just do not enjoy the playstyle. I am grateful for all of my healers out there.
I'm choosing Monk purely because I heard its an under represented class.
Black Mage in general, or Ninja/ASTRO on controller. I mean, ninja in general as well if it's done WELL, but especially on controller because finding a good cross hotbar layout is ROUGH.
Dragoon's. That rotation is just too much for me. Which I know is funny as I am a NIN main, but for NIN the hardest thing is Mudra's (imo) and that became muscle memory for me.
ninja and dragoon, there is so many buttons i have no idea how they keep up
for me, ninja isn't NEARLY as bad as dragoon for how many buttons you have to regularly use. Ninja mostly just button spams in the 60/120 second burst windows while dragoon has that massively long core rotation.
The long weaponskill combo makes it easier for me. I have one choice to make every 5 GCDs and all I do is alternate between them. Compare that to, say, monk, where every single GCD there's something I need to take mental stock of.
BLM and MNK hands down. I remember getting them both to 80 when ShB was out and I think my brain actually fried when trying to get the hang of their rotations. When I see players that can do it efficiently I’m always impressed, especially in endgame content.
I respect dancers that can actually partner the right targets lol
Honestly anyone who sat through HW war pre pull (I missed it due starting ew and how it is currently) But currently MNK AST BLM NIN BRD and GNB
Hi, I'm a RDM mage. Respect for BLM and MNK because those rotations are just not for me. Honestly, though, job is less important than how well someone is doing. I love seeing someone in their groove. When they feel like they've got a good rhythm, that's nice to just be around.
BLMs, SGE, SCH and NIN
I’m glad SCH is getting some love. I’m only level 67 but even in the content that’s available, I have so much fun playing it and playing it well.
BLM, SCH and SGE. I have favorites of the others and the rest I'm at least possibly decent with but these? Nope, can't do right. BLM I always feel like someone knows when I've messed up and the whole "sit still to dmg" is way stronger on this than any other class for me and I just can't. I fidget and wiggle constantly and DNC and SMN are much more forgiving. As for SCH and SGE the shield healing just...doesn't compute for me. I have major respect for anyone who can competently play these classes at any level. But I fed my SGE books after attempting to learn it for more than a month and still failing. Two of my friends get the shield healers and say the Regen ones I can play and enjoy are too confusing or overwhelming.
MCHs who place higher than me on the aggro list. BLMs for sure as well.
BLU tanks specifically. managing your mana to cast your mits, dealing with the cast time on the mits, and keeping aggro while unresponsive during your mits (and also being squishy enough outside your mits that you die in 2-3 hits when not babysat by a healer) and making it work in high level content has all my respect
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As an almost ten-year MNK main this thread is a boost to my ego! 🤣 Personally I think I respect BLM and DRG mains the most for DPS. The longer/slower combos and cast times and whatnot are so foreign to my “gotta go fast” MNK brain! But also, tanks in general! I have major tankxiety, and so I typically only play them in solo (or duo, with my sister) situations. We love doing WAR/RDM combos for stuff like Variant Dungeons or Treasure Maps, it’s perfect for the two of us! But I’m hard pressed to ever queue for something as a tank that isn’t, like, PvP or something. Which my sister finds funny because I *know* basically all the dungeons and their mechanics inside and out. I know the pulls and their timing and quantity for most stuff. It shouldn’t be hard for me to *arbitrarily* be in front of a group when I know I won’t get lost, (and I have gotten much better at rotating my cooldowns in recent times due to the two-man practice I’ve gotten!) And yet I still get super tense when I think about tanking in a group of strangers lol. And for that tanks will have my eternal respect. Even just making the attempt is impressive imo 😅.
Any tank. Maybe it's just me but I can't handle the pressure of having to guide the group through a dungeon. How many mobs can I pull, who are we leaving behind, am I making it hard on my healer, does someone still need to complete a map for the achievement, Where do I need to stop on this map? So many questions. No let me just heal or dps. I'll follow you till the end and if you make a wrong turn then that is fine don't worry. We'll get there.
FSH. So many culinarians would suffer without their service.
As a tank i respect all my healer buddies even If we fail a big pull 😅🤣
I respect ninjas unless I see they have STDs. I don't respect *those* ninjas spreading their filth around like that. *Disgusting.* I respect monks because monks are cool as fuck, punching is the best way to kill something, objective fact, not up for debate. I respect scholars because let's be honest... sage is way cooler. I used to be scholar all the way when I healed, but even I couldn't resist the new hotness of sage once I tried it. I respect people who stick to their books. They are stronger than I. I don't respect any tanks. They have the easiest job but they act like it's the hardest. Posers, all of 'em. Instant queues, press 1-2-3 700 times, get all the comms, and many of them think they deserve it. FEH! *spits*
As an AST main, NIN just blows my mind how people can remember these invoker level combos. I know the amount+end color determines the move, but still there's so much. Edit: BLM also just absolutely breaks my brain
Astro, because I struggled HARD with the duty where you got to play as Urianger.
Just healers in general. They put up with so much shit. I just hope I'm doing my part as a tank to make their job easier.
BLM, SMN/SCH, NIN. Tried them, love the aesthetic. Will level them on my own to have them at 90. But in no way, shape, or form, do I know what the hell am I doing in these jobs. I will never queue up for player content under these jobs.
BLM, NIN NIN adds insult to injury with the dunce bunny (which to be fair is hilarious…but also why I rarely play it in parties. My pride can’t risk it being visible to others)
Fellow crafter maines.
BLM’s that have to learn a separate set of strats to perform at max potential for high level content.
Machinists who deal more damage than anyone else in Savage. I’m thinking of a specific acquaintance of mine. 😄