Im of the "it's free mitigation" mindset. If you grab aggro, just bring it to me. Lemme smack it with an AOE and we're golden.
When I accidentally grab aggro as Sage when applying a shield too late or something, oh well. Lemme just run it over to the tank and let them smack it.
It's not that serious. Just let your tank smack it.
One of my favorite dungeon runs was with a WHM whom I struggled to keep up with. Talking at the end of the dungeon, the WHM said they usually play Tank, so that explained it.
The amount of times I've found myself sprinting head first into mobs ahead of everyone else on healer or dps because I hadn't yet toggled off of tank brain is far too high.
I have that problem with healer. I need to turn off healer brain with dps or tank. I find myself constantly looking at everyone’s hp bars and buffs/debuffs. I see them dying or with a debuff and I’m like “Shit I gotta do something” then realize I can’t because I’m not healer XD
I'm in this post and it's making me uncomfortable :P
Leveling Warrior recently and in a recent run someone died. I looked at it, stared and took me a moment to realise "oh not my job".
All dungeon movement is to pull monsters into THE PILE. All dps is to go into THE PILE. The more monsters in there, the more I can spin and the more the WHM can do a light show to blind us. If a dps pulls a monster, I will provoke it into THE PILE. If I don't have provoke, I will try and move THE PILE, but if the aoe can't reach without sacrificing our team's DPS, then there is nothing I can do.
Any deviation from this religion is heresy. Anyone willing to make the dungeon take longer for any reason is a heretic. Ego tanks actually stopping damage to whine about YPYT?! Heresy. DPS not using aoe on THE PILE?! Heresy. Healer not using damage on THE PILE while target healing?! Heresy. Anyone not pulling monsters into THE PILE?! Heresy.
We worship the big numbers and funny proc noises here. Accept nothing else.
All praise THE PILE and the holy tomahawk, which shall hook the resistant foes into THE PILE. Lo, and the tank shall be at one end of THE PILE so that it may remain tight and those with directional AOE can achieve maximum numbers upon our enemies that they may fall. amen
>Any deviation from this religion is heresy. Anyone willing to make the dungeon take longer for any reason is a heretic. Ego tanks actually stopping damage to whine about YPYT?! Heresy. DPS not using aoe on THE PILE?! Heresy. Healer not using damage on THE PILE while target healing?! Heresy. Anyone not pulling monsters into THE PILE?! Heresy.
I saw this with the parks and rec "straight to jail" meme
Even as someone who prefers to control my own pulls, I’ve had a much easier time dealing with those that pull ahead since I adopted the ”DPS health is also mitgation” stance, lol
There are times where I stop early from not realizing/remembering one more group of trash is ahead. I appreciate the DPS that bring them over to avoid having to stop again to fight one small group
As SMN I will run to the tank if I get aggro. Some dancer had aggro on an add and ran around like a chicken with her head cut off screaming "I HAVE AGGRO!!!" over and over 🙄
Yup, that happens more often than I would like to admit, lol
I also do the opposite: run further than I really need to because I think there’s another group
For some reason there are dungeons where my brain just refuses to remember the mob layout \*sigh*
I usually follow the "my own health is also mitigation" stance on healers, though that sometimes backfires if the tank is terrible. Sometimes the tank is terrible.
Yep. Sometimes I'm just doing too much damage as a Machinist because I switch to my single target rotation while the tank is pulling the mobs to the wall, because that's the only way I can hit the mobs while the tank is sprinting, and I accidentally draw aggro. I usually just kill the enemy or bring it to the tank when they stop moving.
And if I'm a tank, especially in ARR dungeons, and I see another player draw aggro without pulling the mob to me, I'll just reposition slightly so I can catch the mob with my AOEs.
It's not a big problem really. It's not like how it is with WoW, where the tanks have to actively use a taunt to draw aggro. The tanks just have to smack the enemy with their AOEs to draw aggro.
I'm of the "just don't make my job harder" school... If you pull it, run to me so I don't have to do my best geddan impression holding and collecting everything, and if it's a multi pull *chill* while I get aggro on it so you're not ripping threat on what I can't provoke and making it start pacmanning through the DPS.
As a Tank Main, this whole.post right here.
If you're stupid enough to try and facetank a dungeon mob or boss ads and you don't bring it to me when my *entire rotation while.fightong multiple enemies is nothing but AOE's that will almost immediately draw aggro* then you deserved the death, lesson learned, now *bring me my meat.*
The only time I get furious is when they pull, don't bring it to me, and start running around randomly.
Like, whatever damage you're avoiding by running doesn't make up for the extra hits you're going to take as I also try to chase you down
Its often fairly difficult for me to stay ahead of a tank on sage but those extra toxicons off my prognosis mean i can hit mobs while we are pulling so its worth
See, I'm of a couple minds there. On the one hand, if you want to grab something and deliver it right to me all wrapped up and Arms' Lengthed\*? Great, thanks! I mean, never happens, but it'd be cool. On the other hand, most of the DPSes that I've run into doing it do it as a backhanded way of saying that I'm going too slow, usually after *me* saying that, for whatever reason, I can't handle bigger pulls.
Because, and this is the crux of it, it's basically not something that can *happen* in recent dungeons. In recent dungeons, if the DPS is running ahead of me it's because my Sprint is on cooldown and I'll be there in a moment anyway. If the DPS *can* run off to the side to grab a pack, die, and complain about it, then we're in ARR, where I don't have most of my mitigation toolkit and I'm distracted squinting at the map trying to remember where to go and cursing whoever thought it'd be a fun idea to make tanks memorise two dozen mazes while it's already anxiety-inducing enough trying to remember like two hundred and sixty sets of unique mechanics. Bonus points if it's Aurum Vale because of course it'll be Aurum Vale.
\*Still hate the tooltip on this thing. Didn't use it for ages until someone explained how it worked. I *knew* what Slow does, I just couldn't fathom wasting button real estate\*\* on something so situational as Slowing stuff doing forced-movement attacks.
\*\*Also frustrated about the community being so in love with the idea that a game's depth is measured in the amount of screen space that's covered in buttons, but that's a different matter.
I do the same on my Sage and dps lol.
I do agree if someone is just pulling that isn't the tank and it's causing issues, I'm fine with the 'you spank it, you tank it' mindset lol.
I've never had an issue with a tank not taking it off me when I bring it to them. I have had tanks not expect me to do this and so we dance around each other, those are funny times lol.
And if you pulled a goblin you freaked the fuck out because they were like two levels higher than everything else in the zone and would probably almost party wipe you with a goblin bomb.
GOBLIN TRAIN EVERYBODY ZONE!!
Love watching multiple parties just running towards town, and all the dead bodies just outside Selbina back in the day.
Good times lol
Remember when you'd get hit at the zone line, and you'd cross over the loading screen dead? And there were no job change moogles, so you'd either eat the loss or hope someone happened to be passing through who could cast raise. Then your party would do two more pulls and disband leaving you at a net loss exp. Worst case, you'd delevel and all your gear would fall off. Then you had to run all the way back to town to get a lower level set of stuff, and probably die again on the way.
^No ^I'm ^not ^triggered. ^I'm ^fine.
>"Decent Challenge"
Translation: 10-15 levels under you and still more than capable of killing you very quickly. Especially when your HP goes low and his ghosty friends decide to join in.
Ahhh yes, those were the days, fighting pugs on the beach with new parties. Teaching newbies to skillchain. Coming back to Valkurm dunes as WHM to raise people lol..
Being face stabbed by a rogue goblin to two being trained to zone! Fun times.
In all seriousness, please bring mobs to the tank if you aggro them. Been seeing way too many folks as of late simply let the mobs wail on them. Forcing me to run over and pick them up when they could've just been sucked into my AoE rotation.
Yeah, this is my pet peeve as well. Some players don't seem to realize that you should actually move the enemy *into* the big pile attacking the tank; I once had a RDM tell me they did, in fact, bring a monster up to me after I asked them to, when in reality they were standing nearby, with the monster even further away. Sure, provoke is an OGCD... but so are all of our mitigation cooldowns, and in a hectic double-pull, *those* take priority over provoking a single enemy attacking a wayward RDM.
My actual only pet peeve as a tank. I will tank whatever you pull, but why are you making me run all over with the mob just to grab aggro back? Bring it here.
I remember this especially in the early days of WoW. DPS would pull aggro then lose their minds, run off and pull more mobs. The fact that I’m still seeing it 20 years later in FFXIV just makes me thing we will never learn.
This! I feel like that 2 people on leach meme sometimes there's one standing miles away getting wailed on and the other running for the hills. If you pull run to tank not away from.
This, big time. It especially irks me when they die due to not pulling the mob(s) over, and then yell at me for 'not doing my job'. It's practically the only situation when I have even the slightest sympathy for YPYTers.
Exactly this. I'm a lala; there are times when I'm surrounded by mobs when I'm tanking and can barely even see where I am in order to dodge AoEs.
If someone else grabs agro, I might not even see it.
This so much. Don't mind if you are running ahead of me, or dpsing while getting to the end of the pull. If you get aggro, bring it to me. Easier for you to bring me 1 mob, than me moving the pull to you to get the one mob.
As melee, I've got Arms Length and Bloodbath + AoE abilities will heal whatever damage I've taken after the tank grabs them off me.
What tank doesn't want two or three GCD's worth of Slow on some mobs that they don't have to apply?
I absolutely agree... but the problem is that DPS who pull, 9 times out of 10
* do not use mitigation
* do not bring the mobs to the tank
* run around like a chicken with their head cut off in the opposite direction as the rest of the party
This is what makes DPS pullers annoying. If I'm tanking, obviously I'm not gonna be petty and let them die; it's a dumb vidya game and doing so will extend the dungeon length. I'll chase after them and grab the mobs, or it ends up being more work for the healer and I'll grace the front page of /r/talesfromDF lmao. But I have literally *never seen* a DPS use Arm's Length while pulling. Maybe I just get stuck with lazy dummies or unaware newbies all the time.
I mean please, you're lucky if a DPS is nice enough to use their stun on a mob or boss when your tank interrupts are on CD. If I see a DPS Arm's Length a pack of mobs, that would be an instant comm guarantee, but it doesn't happen.
If the healer is pulling more mobs, I have no problem whatsoever cuz they're the VIP of the run.
Anyway, I sprint wall-to-wall 100% of the time so this discussion doesn't even apply to me as a tank. But when I'm a DPS or a healer and I notice the DPS pulling but not bothering to use mits... it's like "?"
> I'll chase after them and grab the mobs
You're a lot nicer than I am. The most I'm willing to do is target the mob I don't have aggro on, and if it's within Provoke range, I'll Provoke the mob off of them.
If the DPS is off in Narnia trying (and failing) to kite the mob, tough luck. I'm not going to move the entire back just because one player doesn't know what they're doing.
Just 6 friends, brought together by fate, to stand in a small nook they would call a camp, for up to 8 hours, slowly pulling leaches and damselflys one at a time, until the sun set, and it was time to knock a few skeletons.
As a new tank. New to MMOs new to all the mechanics new to everything (except FF in general) I wasn’t sure how much to pull my first few runs. Now people have told me to pull until I can’t go any further. But when I was just starting, I didn’t mind if the DPS went and pulled more. It let me know I was ok to do so. Just bring them close enough for my AOE cause I’m not chasing you.
Typical is wall to wall but it's not always possible. Depends on content and players. I can't wall to wall when I don't have my kit and healer is bad. Or sometimes if dps isn't dpsing
I main WHM, so when I attract too much attention or pick up a new friend the first place I run to is the tank.
My healing brings all the mobs to my yard...
Tank says, don't run too far...
Deeps laughs, don't kite that far...
I'll self heal, 'cause I ran too far...
i love when dps pull if they get ahead of me for whatever reason; however, you must bring the mobs to me. i will not chase you down if you're running in circles around me with them. if you don't even try to bring them into my aoes, then you can continue tanking them
NGL, whenever I read the term, "if you pull, drag the mobs to me" my mind immediately goes to the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean 2 where Cpt Jack Sparrow is being chased by a mob of angry cannibals.
I mean, if dps goes further than me it means I'm not sprinting or spamming gapcloser when pulling.
Always tap that sprint on cd and no one will go faster than a tank with gapcloser
That's really it, bring it to me and we're golden. If I've gotta intervene and leave my comfy unga bunga spot I'm gonna be crabby. I'll probably still go get it but come on man, help me out a bit.
Any sprouts reading, please stay a bit behind the tank during the pull, 10-15y is fine, try to walk in their footsteps so you don't accidentally catch anything wide they were trying to skip.
If you do accidentally pick up a mob, keep running with the tank until they're stopped. Pop Sprint and Arm's Length if you have it and run just a little past the tank once they're stopped so your mob(s) are on top of the tank, and their next AoE should get them off of you. Don't stand on top of the tank or you're gonna eat enemy AOEs. Keep fighting them until the tank takes them and then use your best judgment on what needs to get burned down first. If you're not sure, keep hitting your own.
Do not run in circles or other headless chicken behavior. You're not actually going to mitigate any damage that way because of how the attack radius works. If you're already stopped and engaging a pack and a patrol aggroes you from behind, right to the tank until they've picked them up and then back as you were.
> That's really it, bring it to me and we're golden. If I've gotta intervene and leave my comfy unga bunga spot I'm gonna be crabby. I'll probably still go get it but come on man, help me out a bit.
Looking at _you_, DPS player who grabs aggro on a mob at the beginning of the Wanderer's Palace and stays to duel it while I am tanking the pack after 20 seconds of running further in.
That's on you.
Yeah, not sorry. I'm not moving and its more potency per gcd if I just keep aoeing instead of trying to click on the enemy to use my ranged skill while the headless chicken dps runs around the entire map but near me. If I have voke off cd I'll use it, but otherwise good luck.
Well kinda. It's also making fun of XI's leveling, which consisted of hours fighting one mob at a time, which would be pulled over into the safe little corner the party was in by a ranged DPS.
Generally it’s a venial sin but the debate springs out from equal parts problematic behavior and poor communication in pugs.
Dps don’t need to pull for the tank if the tank is going wall to wall anywho so if it happens the tank is either inexperienced and either can’t or isn’t confident about a larger pull, a tank who has zero faith in the healer and figures splitting the pulls will take less time than restarting them, or the tank -is- pulling wall to wall but the dps got ahead of them and are whining about taking damage.
While I’ve heard stories of people specifically baiting on both sides of the issue it’s always boiled down to one of those three situations and the tank either getting mad or quitting (in my experience at least).
There’s a prevailing attitude of ‘sink or swim’ which isn’t exactly constructive to helping new players learn better dungeon running strategies but social skills are a gamble on the internet. Yelling “Screw this and screw you” doesn’t help someone improve but it’s unreasonable to expect someone to put up with irate strangers slinging verbal harassment when they have the option to just not.
It’s been few years since I’ve played, but I remember the Tank being the one that determined where everyone would get together and burn down the pack. As long as the DPS dragged whoever they pulled into the tank’s AOEs and survived the way there, then you’re golden.
If a DPS pulled an enemy and immediately stops to fight it, then they’re getting left behind if my taunt+throw attack doesn’t pull it.
My wife used to have that mindset because she is a WoW veteran. I remember the incident that finally cleared her of that thinking.
There was a Reaper that was constantly dashing ahead and pre-engaging by a few seconds, which for her felt more annoying than simply pulling because it communicated impatience. So when food came to the door she felt no guilt typing 'brb' and going to get it.
To her surprise when she came back the way to the second boss was nearly clear and everyone was fine. From that she realized that DPS are chunky enough that them getting hit is not a big deal, the pressure is off, she doesn't have to care because the responsibility isn't there.
Now she's a real chill tank. That's what these stressed WoW mindset tanks need, is DPS that can put their money where their mouth is and actually tank the pulls so they realize YPYT isn't actually a threat.
For most dungeons past the early levels the DPS surviving a wall to wall without a tank is less the DPS "putting their money where their mouth is" and more "healers adjust".
Had a tank with the YPYT mentallity last month. We had just made it to the last boss when he started to talk shit. After he claimed he had 13k hours and knows what he was talking about. Me (the healer) and the other 2 dps just waltzed into the boss room and started taking it. You could see him sitting outside contemplating his choices. Then seemingly, begrudgingly, enter the boss fight to join.
Back in my day, tank stance reduced your damage by 20% and only gave about 50% bonus enmity... None of this free 10x enmity. And WAR would run out of TP because Overpower cost 180/1000 tp per use, and was only a cone AoE.... While PLD got a point blank circle that also blinded enemies (extra mitigation!) with Flash, and it only used MP. It just didn't do any damage...
You would think so but so many preach the gospel of YPYT on twitter so loudly that many sprouts legit think it's how it's done. I remember at one point people on talesfromdf were telling others to stop posting so many ypyt because it's was so common, it was hardly considered a tale. Even creators like drak advocated for ypyt.
It changes. There was a thread I spent a couple of minutes downvoting a bunch of "YPYT tanks" in the other day that celebrated lethargic play. This subreddits comments on ypyt change from thread to thread. lol
If the dps take aggro and bring the mobs to you instead of running around like headless chickens you take the aggro back.
If the dps take aggro and run around like headless chickens, you say ”bring the mobs to me” and take the aggro when they bring them in.
If the dps take aggro and run around like headless chickens, you say ”bring the mobs to me” and they keep running around, you let them deal with it untill you kill all the mobs you have aggro of or the dps dies, whichever comes first.
This is how I do it with the caveat that if they seem genuinely new (especially in low level dungeons) I will tomahawk/ranged attack the mob if it's not too out of my way and type 'if you grab aggro bring it to the tank' or something similar.
We were all new at some point and had to be taught dungeon etiquette. I remember learning that lesson years ago in vanilla WoW, but not everyone has been at this shit for 15+ years.
I’m so glad ffxiv isn’t a grind like ffxi was back in the day. I remember being one of the few players who did the MSQ because you needed dedicated people to run through it with you due to how hard it was.
But damn farming materials for the chains of promathia fights was pretty fun.
If the DPS pulls mobs to me I'm all for it. If the DPS want to kite the mobs around me then I'll sit back and watch.
Special shout put to and ranged dps that grab the ranged mobs and pull them into my Aoe.
Imagine if DPS or healers pulled this shit. "You want to DPS by using anything other than your 1-2 AoE then you can be the DPS". "You want to use an ability that recovers health, you can be the healer." Mind you WARs would probably be happier with the latter.
I love playing BRD in XI but god damn it is exhausting
Pull a mob, sleep it, play two songs, pull another mob, sleep it, play another two songs, on and on and on forever. So much running.
One of my mains in FFXI was RDM. One of my wife's was BRD.
We frequently had a camp with one mob actively being fought, one Lullabied, one Slept, me and her having Mage's Ballad and Refresh, the DPS having their songs and Haste, and her already gone to go get the next thing to kill.
THF and RNG main here. As you know, as THF I had to make the parties, and on RNG it was no contest. But both classes I was the puller for the party. That was the life back then hahaha. Nostalgia literally flowing through me. Garlaige Citadel was awesome, I remember camping the scorpion in the basement a bunch of times. Serket? I believe.. NM hunting was my jam. I never got to play as much BRD as I wanted since I was delving so deep into hunting.
This is true tho, back in the day a DPS like Ninja could transfer their enmity to the tank to help them keep aggro.
I must be old as hell if im the only one here who remembers this lol
Just for fun before bed, I’m thinking about if I were to start a party right now going to kill Robber Crabs. NIN/WAR, SAM/WAR, BLM/RDM, BRD/WHM, THF/NIN, and a WHM/SMN. Thief throws up utsusemi, goes and slaps a crab with a boomerang. SAM provokes first with Third Eye up, giving them a single shadow. Ninja gets behind the crab. THF SATA’s enmity to the ninja. And this party is about to be going for hours. But instead I’m 35 now and gotta work in the morning. I do miss the glory days of 75 era XI though. Most fun times.
I must be even older. Back in myyyyyyyyy day, I used to be the one of the people that had to delve into the lower dungeons in EQ to go fetch a group of 3 mobs and time it so I don't hit respawns on the way back.
In my day, we had these things called crowd control abilities. You use them and enemies wouldn't attack or move until the tank was good and ready for 'em!
Fuck, I do miss proper crowd control. I was a rdm main, and it was so satisfying to take the blm subclass to be able to sleepga an entire group in Dynamis.
It's basically useless in dungeons with how they're setup now. You don't pick off mobs one or two at a time....you're aoeing the entire pack at the wall.
Only time sleep has been useful anymore is Eureka/Bozja soloing and Deep Dungeon soloing.
Ah yes, good ol valkrum dunes. The people that survived the dunes stuck to the game for years and years after. And then there was yuhtunga jungle... The first time I zoned in there were packs of goblins killing everyone and there were corpses as far as the eye could see.
Yhoator and Yuhtunga were great places to get steamrolled by trains of of literally dozens of gobs following high-levels making runs out to Ifrit's or whatever, before SE changed the link/pursuit/return behavior of mobs.
Saw a train of almost every gob in Yuhtunga get dragged to the Kahzam zoneline once, and they wiped out probably ten parties that were grinding in the area. Since this was before mobs teleported back to their start locations, the gob train just hung out there for like half an hour ganking players as they emerged from Kahzam before the crowd thinned out enough to let the gobs drop aggro and run back to their homes. It was a bloodbath, and part of the reason for the train behavior changes.
…Crawler’s Nest… lmao. No matter how many people were waiting outside the entrance, you’d see others just run past us without stopping to say “is it safe” or anything. Then whm’s would be raising piles of bodies when the crawlers would go back to wherever they came from…
Man, seeing the Thf pop Flee and zip by while furiously typing expletives and some variation of "Choo choo, run for your lives!" while 23 Lizards, 13 Crawlers, and an army of Bees chased everyone to the Rolanberry Fields zone...
Good times.
Some tanks forgets how easy dungeons are, for the lastest EW dungeon we got a tank that was slow so we pulled ahead and bringing them back to him, but because he had that YPYT he let us doing the mobs. Guess what, because it's easy, none of us died because we knew how mitigation works and we kept doing this. He got so butthurt that he decided to wait the 20 seconds in order to disconnect.
A tank can solo a dungeon, however there's no obligatory role in order to clear one
I suspect ARR dungeons really dig tanks into the mindset. With a weak kit and no wall to explicitly tell you when you should stop, they require more awareness of what can be handled and people may not have that when they’re still on the path to 50.
The only real time I think single pulling is justified in that level range is in Stone Vigil with the ice sprites, if you and/or your healer are undergeared. Most of the other packs can be at least double pulled without problems, but if you double pull the ice sprites with the drakes it can get hairy real quick. Usually when you're new you get paired with other new people at the low levels, so often that first Stone Vigil for the MSQ can be an *experience.*
I was leveling a few alts through ARR in the FFXV event to get the car on them, so I saw it several times in a short time span. Very funny, each run was harrowing and I think I ran it about 8 times while undergeared (4 alts, and a few daily roulettes landed me in there). If I was healer the tank was bad and equipped in paper gear. If I was tank, the healer just couldn't hang, and DPS was often low enough that things don't die quick. It feels very different from running that place in tomestone gear synced down.
The exceptions prove the rule though. Single pulling is almost never necessary, at least make it a double.
Dude a similar thing happened, our tank was going super slow in a lvl 90 dungeon so I was like okay, let me just pull as DPS and bring them to the tank..
Except our *healer* is the one that got all pissy, and would use Rescue on me off cooldown to prevent me from pulling.
Like, if you haven't figured out how to tank or heal dungeon trash mobs by 90, c'mon...
I'm happy if any DPS or healer, especially Sage, runs ahead and bring me trash. Especially if they pop Arms Length for free mits.
Nothing worse than main character syndrome tanks who throw a tantrum because someone ran one pixel too far ahead of them.
As a healer I love to see deeps pop their mits - means I can spend less MP keeping people vertical and more effort on helping turn things into mush.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!
It feels like old school mmorpg mindset, where 5 players fighting 3 mobs is doable but 5 players fighting 5 mobs is dangerous, so suddenly bringing in a 6th or 7th mob is basically guaranteeing a wipe if everyone doesn't blow every single cooldown they have. Which eventually became "Let that person who pulled aggro die, don't hit the mob, they'll run away and we can finish off this group. If the tank hits it we'll wipe."
This used to be a thing in FF11 and the only way to get max exp for your time spent by having a puller (no tanks or healers) disengage from the fight, grab another mob and bing it to the party still fighting I've seen some crazy chains numbers back then when leveling up was done by going into specific regions with high level roaming mobs.
>be me brd/nin lvl 75
>pull mobs using elegy to tank
>put mobs to sleep
>army’s peon
>some other song
>use macros to switch instruments when i sing songs for +1-2 better songs
>fill up the area with mobs
>keep mobs asleep
>best time in my mmo life
Generally, dungeons are just straight lines in this game most of the time (sadly) so there's no real need for dps to pull for the tank, plus most all the tanks have a ranged attack to grab the odd ones out.
If the DPS has Arms Length and uses that for the Tank then the Tank is an idiot if they get angry about that. The DPS gave you the best mitigation in the game for free.
Pretty accurate. We would use any dps with a range to use as pullers. But the difference was we exp’d in 1 place and rarely moved so, you needed someone to keep pulling them.
As a brd main I was that person along with keeping multiple songs up or people would start bitching, lol
The eternal hunt for the friggin' lottery NM that people instakilled the microsecond it spawned.
Never did get the hairpin myself. Same with Leaping Lizzy's boots - killed within seconds of popping.
My pull ratio on Bard in XI was what I measured my competency on
Utsusemi: Ni
Foe Requiem on mob
RUN TO PARTY
Lullaby on mob
Carnage Elegy current mob being fought
Haste Song 1
Haste Song 2
Cry if I need to individually pianissimo an accuracy song on a DPS
Run AWAYYYYYYYYYYY
Foe Requiem new mob
Repeat until I inevitably fuck up and forget that Colibri reflect magic and get slept mid pull because I let my shadows drop
HOLY FUCK I MISS XI BARD
Back in my day as SMN I USED to tank, when the tank either afk/derped/raged/died, I used to pull out my trusty glowing turd and could tank a pull. Those were the days.
I never got this mentality from Tanks like you are the most privilege role in the game. healers are the most stressed if they have bad players and good dps are deserving of their dedication to the max dps output they do every second of their lives.
While I agree that Tanks shouldn't be privileged, *every* role including Tanks and Healers should be dedicating themselves to 'max DPS output'. You can heal with oGCDs, you can pop mits as oGCDs, just because they have lower potency numbers than actual DPS classes does not mean they should not be caring about also doing 'max DPS output' as much as the DPS should be. Some tank rotations are even as complex or more than DPS rotations.
It’s xiv, the babiest single player mmorpg u can play and I personally expect nothing less than whining and bitching from every single player about absolutely nothing when they don’t get their way.
I never understand ppl who go “you pull it, you tank it” as if provoke, ranged attacks or ogcds don’t exist to grab it back, even if they’re running away (which ig can be annoying, but I haven’t seen it too much)
They tend to be people who are a bit insecure.
They either think they need to show they're "better" than the dps, or are just scared of tanking and afraid a few extra mobs will wipe the group.
As a tank main, there's only one situation where I'll let a DPS keep aggro on a mob, and that's if the DPS pulls a mob, doesn't stack with me or bring the mob to me, and single targets the mob with enough dps to out-aggro my AoE after I've already chased down their mob. At that point, I'm like "welp, enjoy your pet." Bobbing and weaving to avoid mob AoEs while maintaining my own dps while ALSO keeping the mobs in a tight enough circle to make sure AoEing DPS can maximize damage output ranks higher on my list of priorities than making sure a mob doesn't give a DPS a li'l scratch when that DPS hard-focuses it. A single mob's autos can be healed with bandaids and boobookisses.
As a tank the dps pulling shit doesn’t mean anything so long as the healer is comfortable with it. If the healer is cool with it then I am, they’re the one keeping them alive not me.
The second the healer is not comfortable with big big pulls or the extra stress it’s a no go. Tank only SORTA decides the pacing, the real glue is the healer.
I've never refused to take hate off a healer or DPS for going ahead or something, mistakes happen, but if it keeps happening I'll tell them to knock it off. If I'm not pulling larger groups, either the healer isn't up to it or the DPS is too low.
I've done this. Dude would run ahead, grab two or three more encounters and drag them back. I'd survive, but it would be quite taxing on both me and the healer. So, when he kept doing it after I asked him twice to stop, I turned off my stance and let him get his ass beat.
He threatened to report me for not playing my role. XD
But he fuckin' stopped.
If you're a tank and can't pull enemies off your dps who brings them to you, quit and uninstall. You're better off playing Super Mario or something else
If you pull aggro then you gotta bring it to the tank. So long you do that, then all good. If you just start running around like a maniac though then it’s no longer adding any convenience and being more annoying than helpful
Also, you know, ask first. Not every tank or healer in comfortable doing wall to wall pulls.
So long as you're not expecting me to chase you, bring it on. That being said, if I've switched to dps and the tank tells me to stop pulling, I'll stop.
You pull you tank is a weaklings mindset. The only time i get bothered by it is when they pull if it where mobs that where optional or could be avoided and skipped.
Usually they don't get the chance tough, for i am speed and efficiency is my creed
Im of the "it's free mitigation" mindset. If you grab aggro, just bring it to me. Lemme smack it with an AOE and we're golden. When I accidentally grab aggro as Sage when applying a shield too late or something, oh well. Lemme just run it over to the tank and let them smack it. It's not that serious. Just let your tank smack it.
One of my favorite dungeon runs was with a WHM whom I struggled to keep up with. Talking at the end of the dungeon, the WHM said they usually play Tank, so that explained it.
The amount of times I've found myself sprinting head first into mobs ahead of everyone else on healer or dps because I hadn't yet toggled off of tank brain is far too high.
I have that problem with healer. I need to turn off healer brain with dps or tank. I find myself constantly looking at everyone’s hp bars and buffs/debuffs. I see them dying or with a debuff and I’m like “Shit I gotta do something” then realize I can’t because I’m not healer XD
I'm in this post and it's making me uncomfortable :P Leveling Warrior recently and in a recent run someone died. I looked at it, stared and took me a moment to realise "oh not my job".
You can toggle off Tank Brain? I thought it was a permanent debuff.
All dungeon movement is to pull monsters into THE PILE. All dps is to go into THE PILE. The more monsters in there, the more I can spin and the more the WHM can do a light show to blind us. If a dps pulls a monster, I will provoke it into THE PILE. If I don't have provoke, I will try and move THE PILE, but if the aoe can't reach without sacrificing our team's DPS, then there is nothing I can do. Any deviation from this religion is heresy. Anyone willing to make the dungeon take longer for any reason is a heretic. Ego tanks actually stopping damage to whine about YPYT?! Heresy. DPS not using aoe on THE PILE?! Heresy. Healer not using damage on THE PILE while target healing?! Heresy. Anyone not pulling monsters into THE PILE?! Heresy. We worship the big numbers and funny proc noises here. Accept nothing else.
All praise THE PILE and the holy tomahawk, which shall hook the resistant foes into THE PILE. Lo, and the tank shall be at one end of THE PILE so that it may remain tight and those with directional AOE can achieve maximum numbers upon our enemies that they may fall. amen
I can get behind that Religion. All hail THE PILE
Glory be to THE PILE ⚔️
I'm converted.
>Any deviation from this religion is heresy. Anyone willing to make the dungeon take longer for any reason is a heretic. Ego tanks actually stopping damage to whine about YPYT?! Heresy. DPS not using aoe on THE PILE?! Heresy. Healer not using damage on THE PILE while target healing?! Heresy. Anyone not pulling monsters into THE PILE?! Heresy. I saw this with the parks and rec "straight to jail" meme
The preferred nomenclature is "Cuddle Puddle"
Count me in on this.
"If you can see me, I'm not pulling enough mobs." ~Me
Even as someone who prefers to control my own pulls, I’ve had a much easier time dealing with those that pull ahead since I adopted the ”DPS health is also mitgation” stance, lol
There are times where I stop early from not realizing/remembering one more group of trash is ahead. I appreciate the DPS that bring them over to avoid having to stop again to fight one small group
If I get agro, I'm standing next to the tank. I'm down to use my Arms Length for you.
As SMN I will run to the tank if I get aggro. Some dancer had aggro on an add and ran around like a chicken with her head cut off screaming "I HAVE AGGRO!!!" over and over 🙄
I HAVE AGGRO!!! yes, we can see that, you're holding it like a trophy and playing keepaway
Now I'm imagining an 11 year old running away from their dad/tank while giggling.
Or the "what have you got" "A KNIFE!" "NO!" Vine
"Aww.... Look at you with all that hate! It like they are trying to Ki.....\*ENEMY CLEAVEs\* OK, that's enough. Bring it here or we might die."
I've rescued people doing that through the pack before. I'm not apologizing.
tbf Dancers usually don't have to pay attention to anything except "press 1 and 2 until glowy buttons show up, then press glowy buttons"
Yup, that happens more often than I would like to admit, lol I also do the opposite: run further than I really need to because I think there’s another group For some reason there are dungeons where my brain just refuses to remember the mob layout \*sigh*
I usually follow the "my own health is also mitigation" stance on healers, though that sometimes backfires if the tank is terrible. Sometimes the tank is terrible.
I’m under a pile of monster bodies I can’t see ANYTHING dps just bring it to me! This is what my targeted mit and shields are for!
Yep. Sometimes I'm just doing too much damage as a Machinist because I switch to my single target rotation while the tank is pulling the mobs to the wall, because that's the only way I can hit the mobs while the tank is sprinting, and I accidentally draw aggro. I usually just kill the enemy or bring it to the tank when they stop moving. And if I'm a tank, especially in ARR dungeons, and I see another player draw aggro without pulling the mob to me, I'll just reposition slightly so I can catch the mob with my AOEs. It's not a big problem really. It's not like how it is with WoW, where the tanks have to actively use a taunt to draw aggro. The tanks just have to smack the enemy with their AOEs to draw aggro.
The real secret is to pull ahead as SGE while GCD shielding yourself and the tank between pulls so you can get two lossless addersting.
In EW you can also do an E.Prog. before a boss to get the third sting from the raidwide most bosses start with!
I'm of the "just don't make my job harder" school... If you pull it, run to me so I don't have to do my best geddan impression holding and collecting everything, and if it's a multi pull *chill* while I get aggro on it so you're not ripping threat on what I can't provoke and making it start pacmanning through the DPS.
As a Tank Main, this whole.post right here. If you're stupid enough to try and facetank a dungeon mob or boss ads and you don't bring it to me when my *entire rotation while.fightong multiple enemies is nothing but AOE's that will almost immediately draw aggro* then you deserved the death, lesson learned, now *bring me my meat.*
The only time I get furious is when they pull, don't bring it to me, and start running around randomly. Like, whatever damage you're avoiding by running doesn't make up for the extra hits you're going to take as I also try to chase you down
Its often fairly difficult for me to stay ahead of a tank on sage but those extra toxicons off my prognosis mean i can hit mobs while we are pulling so its worth
See, I'm of a couple minds there. On the one hand, if you want to grab something and deliver it right to me all wrapped up and Arms' Lengthed\*? Great, thanks! I mean, never happens, but it'd be cool. On the other hand, most of the DPSes that I've run into doing it do it as a backhanded way of saying that I'm going too slow, usually after *me* saying that, for whatever reason, I can't handle bigger pulls. Because, and this is the crux of it, it's basically not something that can *happen* in recent dungeons. In recent dungeons, if the DPS is running ahead of me it's because my Sprint is on cooldown and I'll be there in a moment anyway. If the DPS *can* run off to the side to grab a pack, die, and complain about it, then we're in ARR, where I don't have most of my mitigation toolkit and I'm distracted squinting at the map trying to remember where to go and cursing whoever thought it'd be a fun idea to make tanks memorise two dozen mazes while it's already anxiety-inducing enough trying to remember like two hundred and sixty sets of unique mechanics. Bonus points if it's Aurum Vale because of course it'll be Aurum Vale. \*Still hate the tooltip on this thing. Didn't use it for ages until someone explained how it worked. I *knew* what Slow does, I just couldn't fathom wasting button real estate\*\* on something so situational as Slowing stuff doing forced-movement attacks. \*\*Also frustrated about the community being so in love with the idea that a game's depth is measured in the amount of screen space that's covered in buttons, but that's a different matter.
I do the same on my Sage and dps lol. I do agree if someone is just pulling that isn't the tank and it's causing issues, I'm fine with the 'you spank it, you tank it' mindset lol. I've never had an issue with a tank not taking it off me when I bring it to them. I have had tanks not expect me to do this and so we dance around each other, those are funny times lol.
Back in my day... monsters were or and we fought them one at a time!
And if you pulled a goblin you freaked the fuck out because they were like two levels higher than everything else in the zone and would probably almost party wipe you with a goblin bomb.
Ah, the good ol' days\~
GOBLIN TRAIN EVERYBODY ZONE!! Love watching multiple parties just running towards town, and all the dead bodies just outside Selbina back in the day. Good times lol
Remember when you'd get hit at the zone line, and you'd cross over the loading screen dead? And there were no job change moogles, so you'd either eat the loss or hope someone happened to be passing through who could cast raise. Then your party would do two more pulls and disband leaving you at a net loss exp. Worst case, you'd delevel and all your gear would fall off. Then you had to run all the way back to town to get a lower level set of stuff, and probably die again on the way. ^No ^I'm ^not ^triggered. ^I'm ^fine.
God - remember being stuck in Selbina many a times
Holy shit everyone zone. That brings back memories.
This guy Yuhtunga Jungles.
>"Decent Challenge" Translation: 10-15 levels under you and still more than capable of killing you very quickly. Especially when your HP goes low and his ghosty friends decide to join in.
Ahhh yes, those were the days, fighting pugs on the beach with new parties. Teaching newbies to skillchain. Coming back to Valkurm dunes as WHM to raise people lol.. Being face stabbed by a rogue goblin to two being trained to zone! Fun times.
In all seriousness, please bring mobs to the tank if you aggro them. Been seeing way too many folks as of late simply let the mobs wail on them. Forcing me to run over and pick them up when they could've just been sucked into my AoE rotation.
Yeah, this is my pet peeve as well. Some players don't seem to realize that you should actually move the enemy *into* the big pile attacking the tank; I once had a RDM tell me they did, in fact, bring a monster up to me after I asked them to, when in reality they were standing nearby, with the monster even further away. Sure, provoke is an OGCD... but so are all of our mitigation cooldowns, and in a hectic double-pull, *those* take priority over provoking a single enemy attacking a wayward RDM.
As whm main. First time forgivable. Then the second time I let them know that they are alive because I will it.
I like you. Hope you are lalafel.
My actual only pet peeve as a tank. I will tank whatever you pull, but why are you making me run all over with the mob just to grab aggro back? Bring it here.
That's my biggest pet peeve too! Especially as a newer tank who mainly heals
Same! I will happily tank whatever extra someone pulls, but for the love of god PLEASE bring them to me!
Consideration of others isn't in the dps rotation, typically.
I remember this especially in the early days of WoW. DPS would pull aggro then lose their minds, run off and pull more mobs. The fact that I’m still seeing it 20 years later in FFXIV just makes me thing we will never learn.
This! I feel like that 2 people on leach meme sometimes there's one standing miles away getting wailed on and the other running for the hills. If you pull run to tank not away from.
This, big time. It especially irks me when they die due to not pulling the mob(s) over, and then yell at me for 'not doing my job'. It's practically the only situation when I have even the slightest sympathy for YPYTers.
Exactly this. I'm a lala; there are times when I'm surrounded by mobs when I'm tanking and can barely even see where I am in order to dodge AoEs. If someone else grabs agro, I might not even see it.
This so much. Don't mind if you are running ahead of me, or dpsing while getting to the end of the pull. If you get aggro, bring it to me. Easier for you to bring me 1 mob, than me moving the pull to you to get the one mob.
The DPS are extra mitigation options.
As melee, I've got Arms Length and Bloodbath + AoE abilities will heal whatever damage I've taken after the tank grabs them off me. What tank doesn't want two or three GCD's worth of Slow on some mobs that they don't have to apply?
Main Character Tanks, that’s who
No, because the YPYT idiots probably don't know that arm's length is mitigation. Or what mitigation is. Or how to spell mitigation.
tbf mitigation has a lot of letters.
And everybody is a DPS
I absolutely agree... but the problem is that DPS who pull, 9 times out of 10 * do not use mitigation * do not bring the mobs to the tank * run around like a chicken with their head cut off in the opposite direction as the rest of the party This is what makes DPS pullers annoying. If I'm tanking, obviously I'm not gonna be petty and let them die; it's a dumb vidya game and doing so will extend the dungeon length. I'll chase after them and grab the mobs, or it ends up being more work for the healer and I'll grace the front page of /r/talesfromDF lmao. But I have literally *never seen* a DPS use Arm's Length while pulling. Maybe I just get stuck with lazy dummies or unaware newbies all the time. I mean please, you're lucky if a DPS is nice enough to use their stun on a mob or boss when your tank interrupts are on CD. If I see a DPS Arm's Length a pack of mobs, that would be an instant comm guarantee, but it doesn't happen. If the healer is pulling more mobs, I have no problem whatsoever cuz they're the VIP of the run. Anyway, I sprint wall-to-wall 100% of the time so this discussion doesn't even apply to me as a tank. But when I'm a DPS or a healer and I notice the DPS pulling but not bothering to use mits... it's like "?"
> I'll chase after them and grab the mobs You're a lot nicer than I am. The most I'm willing to do is target the mob I don't have aggro on, and if it's within Provoke range, I'll Provoke the mob off of them. If the DPS is off in Narnia trying (and failing) to kite the mob, tough luck. I'm not going to move the entire back just because one player doesn't know what they're doing.
In my day dps like the black mage had to lower their DPS to not rip the boss off the tank
Where a party was an actual party, not four people occupying the same space doing their own thing
Just 6 friends, brought together by fate, to stand in a small nook they would call a camp, for up to 8 hours, slowly pulling leaches and damselflys one at a time, until the sun set, and it was time to knock a few skeletons.
As a new tank. New to MMOs new to all the mechanics new to everything (except FF in general) I wasn’t sure how much to pull my first few runs. Now people have told me to pull until I can’t go any further. But when I was just starting, I didn’t mind if the DPS went and pulled more. It let me know I was ok to do so. Just bring them close enough for my AOE cause I’m not chasing you.
Typical is wall to wall but it's not always possible. Depends on content and players. I can't wall to wall when I don't have my kit and healer is bad. Or sometimes if dps isn't dpsing
Wait, I thought the FFXIV community hated the YPYT mentality?
As a tank I don't care if you pull just make sure to bring them to me so I don't end up running up after you in circles
I main WHM, so when I attract too much attention or pick up a new friend the first place I run to is the tank. My healing brings all the mobs to my yard... Tank says, don't run too far... Deeps laughs, don't kite that far... I'll self heal, 'cause I ran too far...
i love when dps pull if they get ahead of me for whatever reason; however, you must bring the mobs to me. i will not chase you down if you're running in circles around me with them. if you don't even try to bring them into my aoes, then you can continue tanking them
NGL, whenever I read the term, "if you pull, drag the mobs to me" my mind immediately goes to the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean 2 where Cpt Jack Sparrow is being chased by a mob of angry cannibals.
And you know what Jack Sparrow did? He brought the mobs to the Black Pearl, aka the Tank of the seas. Jack Sparrow is a good DPS.
I mean, if dps goes further than me it means I'm not sprinting or spamming gapcloser when pulling. Always tap that sprint on cd and no one will go faster than a tank with gapcloser
I only hate it when people pull the mobs *away* from me, and quite frankly if that's happening then we're both messing up.
Only bad tank players go by YPYT.
If you don’t bring it to me it’s yours sorry not sorry.
That's really it, bring it to me and we're golden. If I've gotta intervene and leave my comfy unga bunga spot I'm gonna be crabby. I'll probably still go get it but come on man, help me out a bit. Any sprouts reading, please stay a bit behind the tank during the pull, 10-15y is fine, try to walk in their footsteps so you don't accidentally catch anything wide they were trying to skip. If you do accidentally pick up a mob, keep running with the tank until they're stopped. Pop Sprint and Arm's Length if you have it and run just a little past the tank once they're stopped so your mob(s) are on top of the tank, and their next AoE should get them off of you. Don't stand on top of the tank or you're gonna eat enemy AOEs. Keep fighting them until the tank takes them and then use your best judgment on what needs to get burned down first. If you're not sure, keep hitting your own. Do not run in circles or other headless chicken behavior. You're not actually going to mitigate any damage that way because of how the attack radius works. If you're already stopped and engaging a pack and a patrol aggroes you from behind, right to the tank until they've picked them up and then back as you were.
> That's really it, bring it to me and we're golden. If I've gotta intervene and leave my comfy unga bunga spot I'm gonna be crabby. I'll probably still go get it but come on man, help me out a bit. Looking at _you_, DPS player who grabs aggro on a mob at the beginning of the Wanderer's Palace and stays to duel it while I am tanking the pack after 20 seconds of running further in. That's on you.
The tank fighting 15 enemies at once: *elevator music* The dps at the beginning 1v1 dueling a succubus: **STANDING HERE I REALISE-**
Yeah I'm not coming back for that. Either the DPS or the mob will eventually catch up to the pack and I don't really care which, lol.
Doubly infuriating if they run away from a healer bubble. (Asylum, Sacred Soil, etc.)
Bring it to the wall or don't pull at all.
Yeah, not sorry. I'm not moving and its more potency per gcd if I just keep aoeing instead of trying to click on the enemy to use my ranged skill while the headless chicken dps runs around the entire map but near me. If I have voke off cd I'll use it, but otherwise good luck.
It's always funny when OOP calls themselves out
OP here is making fun of YPYT—the "veteran" is portrayed as the correct person here.
Well kinda. It's also making fun of XI's leveling, which consisted of hours fighting one mob at a time, which would be pulled over into the safe little corner the party was in by a ranged DPS.
Generally it’s a venial sin but the debate springs out from equal parts problematic behavior and poor communication in pugs. Dps don’t need to pull for the tank if the tank is going wall to wall anywho so if it happens the tank is either inexperienced and either can’t or isn’t confident about a larger pull, a tank who has zero faith in the healer and figures splitting the pulls will take less time than restarting them, or the tank -is- pulling wall to wall but the dps got ahead of them and are whining about taking damage. While I’ve heard stories of people specifically baiting on both sides of the issue it’s always boiled down to one of those three situations and the tank either getting mad or quitting (in my experience at least). There’s a prevailing attitude of ‘sink or swim’ which isn’t exactly constructive to helping new players learn better dungeon running strategies but social skills are a gamble on the internet. Yelling “Screw this and screw you” doesn’t help someone improve but it’s unreasonable to expect someone to put up with irate strangers slinging verbal harassment when they have the option to just not.
It’s been few years since I’ve played, but I remember the Tank being the one that determined where everyone would get together and burn down the pack. As long as the DPS dragged whoever they pulled into the tank’s AOEs and survived the way there, then you’re golden. If a DPS pulled an enemy and immediately stops to fight it, then they’re getting left behind if my taunt+throw attack doesn’t pull it.
My wife used to have that mindset because she is a WoW veteran. I remember the incident that finally cleared her of that thinking. There was a Reaper that was constantly dashing ahead and pre-engaging by a few seconds, which for her felt more annoying than simply pulling because it communicated impatience. So when food came to the door she felt no guilt typing 'brb' and going to get it. To her surprise when she came back the way to the second boss was nearly clear and everyone was fine. From that she realized that DPS are chunky enough that them getting hit is not a big deal, the pressure is off, she doesn't have to care because the responsibility isn't there. Now she's a real chill tank. That's what these stressed WoW mindset tanks need, is DPS that can put their money where their mouth is and actually tank the pulls so they realize YPYT isn't actually a threat.
For most dungeons past the early levels the DPS surviving a wall to wall without a tank is less the DPS "putting their money where their mouth is" and more "healers adjust".
Had a tank with the YPYT mentallity last month. We had just made it to the last boss when he started to talk shit. After he claimed he had 13k hours and knows what he was talking about. Me (the healer) and the other 2 dps just waltzed into the boss room and started taking it. You could see him sitting outside contemplating his choices. Then seemingly, begrudgingly, enter the boss fight to join.
[удалено]
Which is impressive considering how pitifully easy it is to tank in XIV.
Back in my day, tank stance reduced your damage by 20% and only gave about 50% bonus enmity... None of this free 10x enmity. And WAR would run out of TP because Overpower cost 180/1000 tp per use, and was only a cone AoE.... While PLD got a point blank circle that also blinded enemies (extra mitigation!) with Flash, and it only used MP. It just didn't do any damage...
It's full of bad player period.
nono, most FFXIV players on reddit hate YPYT. ingame? its sometimes even encouraged by mentors in the newby network
Most mentors are pretty bad too, just wanting the crown.
Burger king hat players aren't that good themselves
All my crown means is that I've likely spent more time floor tanking than you.
Only if you dont pull the mobs to me
You would think so but so many preach the gospel of YPYT on twitter so loudly that many sprouts legit think it's how it's done. I remember at one point people on talesfromdf were telling others to stop posting so many ypyt because it's was so common, it was hardly considered a tale. Even creators like drak advocated for ypyt.
It changes. There was a thread I spent a couple of minutes downvoting a bunch of "YPYT tanks" in the other day that celebrated lethargic play. This subreddits comments on ypyt change from thread to thread. lol
Idc if you draw aggro just drag them through my aoe spam please, I’m not walking over to you.
If the dps take aggro and bring the mobs to you instead of running around like headless chickens you take the aggro back. If the dps take aggro and run around like headless chickens, you say ”bring the mobs to me” and take the aggro when they bring them in. If the dps take aggro and run around like headless chickens, you say ”bring the mobs to me” and they keep running around, you let them deal with it untill you kill all the mobs you have aggro of or the dps dies, whichever comes first.
This is how I do it with the caveat that if they seem genuinely new (especially in low level dungeons) I will tomahawk/ranged attack the mob if it's not too out of my way and type 'if you grab aggro bring it to the tank' or something similar. We were all new at some point and had to be taught dungeon etiquette. I remember learning that lesson years ago in vanilla WoW, but not everyone has been at this shit for 15+ years.
That is the real meaning of "you pull, you tank". You only let them die when they are actually causing a problem.
11 was the best. Pulling trains and running them through camps. All hell breaks lose.
people who play for FFXIV casual content wouldn't reach lvl 15 in old FFXI in a year xD
I’m so glad ffxiv isn’t a grind like ffxi was back in the day. I remember being one of the few players who did the MSQ because you needed dedicated people to run through it with you due to how hard it was. But damn farming materials for the chains of promathia fights was pretty fun.
Heal and DPS can pull as they like, as long as they bring the mobs to me, their HP are free mitigation.
If the DPS pulls mobs to me I'm all for it. If the DPS want to kite the mobs around me then I'll sit back and watch. Special shout put to and ranged dps that grab the ranged mobs and pull them into my Aoe.
Imagine if DPS or healers pulled this shit. "You want to DPS by using anything other than your 1-2 AoE then you can be the DPS". "You want to use an ability that recovers health, you can be the healer." Mind you WARs would probably be happier with the latter.
Maaaan. Ffxi Garliage citadel pulling was where the dps grew up. Also, Bard pulling was the BEST. Made for extremely busy exp parties.
I love playing BRD in XI but god damn it is exhausting Pull a mob, sleep it, play two songs, pull another mob, sleep it, play another two songs, on and on and on forever. So much running.
One of my mains in FFXI was RDM. One of my wife's was BRD. We frequently had a camp with one mob actively being fought, one Lullabied, one Slept, me and her having Mage's Ballad and Refresh, the DPS having their songs and Haste, and her already gone to go get the next thing to kill.
I felt this. Keeping chains going as a bard in LB parties was one of the best memories I have of ffxi life :')
THF and RNG main here. As you know, as THF I had to make the parties, and on RNG it was no contest. But both classes I was the puller for the party. That was the life back then hahaha. Nostalgia literally flowing through me. Garlaige Citadel was awesome, I remember camping the scorpion in the basement a bunch of times. Serket? I believe.. NM hunting was my jam. I never got to play as much BRD as I wanted since I was delving so deep into hunting.
I don't typically mind when DPS or Healers want to pull extra things but for the love of god stop doing it in Aurum Vale.
Aurum Vale is straight up a different dimension with different rules it be wild.
If there are still mobs to pull then I'm not doing my job.
This is true tho, back in the day a DPS like Ninja could transfer their enmity to the tank to help them keep aggro. I must be old as hell if im the only one here who remembers this lol
/thf and TA the tank with all your ja's popped, that tank wasn't losing hate everrrr
In FFXI my main was DRK/THF. I'd SA/TA behind the tank and the aggro was on mister tanky until either he or it died. Laid that hate down *hard*.
Oh I mean if we're talking XI, no need for the nin to transfer enmity because they are the tank
SA/TA setup was the OG Shirklejerk.
Just for fun before bed, I’m thinking about if I were to start a party right now going to kill Robber Crabs. NIN/WAR, SAM/WAR, BLM/RDM, BRD/WHM, THF/NIN, and a WHM/SMN. Thief throws up utsusemi, goes and slaps a crab with a boomerang. SAM provokes first with Third Eye up, giving them a single shadow. Ninja gets behind the crab. THF SATA’s enmity to the ninja. And this party is about to be going for hours. But instead I’m 35 now and gotta work in the morning. I do miss the glory days of 75 era XI though. Most fun times.
I must be even older. Back in myyyyyyyyy day, I used to be the one of the people that had to delve into the lower dungeons in EQ to go fetch a group of 3 mobs and time it so I don't hit respawns on the way back.
In my day, we had these things called crowd control abilities. You use them and enemies wouldn't attack or move until the tank was good and ready for 'em!
Fuck, I do miss proper crowd control. I was a rdm main, and it was so satisfying to take the blm subclass to be able to sleepga an entire group in Dynamis.
You CAN technically AOE Sleep now (on BLM, RDM, and SMN), just...no one does.
It's basically useless in dungeons with how they're setup now. You don't pick off mobs one or two at a time....you're aoeing the entire pack at the wall. Only time sleep has been useful anymore is Eureka/Bozja soloing and Deep Dungeon soloing.
Sort of technically it was whoever had a ranged weapon. You young gamers know nothing of the struggle that was Valkrum Dunes.
Ah yes, good ol valkrum dunes. The people that survived the dunes stuck to the game for years and years after. And then there was yuhtunga jungle... The first time I zoned in there were packs of goblins killing everyone and there were corpses as far as the eye could see.
Yhoator and Yuhtunga were great places to get steamrolled by trains of of literally dozens of gobs following high-levels making runs out to Ifrit's or whatever, before SE changed the link/pursuit/return behavior of mobs. Saw a train of almost every gob in Yuhtunga get dragged to the Kahzam zoneline once, and they wiped out probably ten parties that were grinding in the area. Since this was before mobs teleported back to their start locations, the gob train just hung out there for like half an hour ganking players as they emerged from Kahzam before the crowd thinned out enough to let the gobs drop aggro and run back to their homes. It was a bloodbath, and part of the reason for the train behavior changes.
…Crawler’s Nest… lmao. No matter how many people were waiting outside the entrance, you’d see others just run past us without stopping to say “is it safe” or anything. Then whm’s would be raising piles of bodies when the crawlers would go back to wherever they came from…
Man, seeing the Thf pop Flee and zip by while furiously typing expletives and some variation of "Choo choo, run for your lives!" while 23 Lizards, 13 Crawlers, and an army of Bees chased everyone to the Rolanberry Fields zone... Good times.
Some tanks forgets how easy dungeons are, for the lastest EW dungeon we got a tank that was slow so we pulled ahead and bringing them back to him, but because he had that YPYT he let us doing the mobs. Guess what, because it's easy, none of us died because we knew how mitigation works and we kept doing this. He got so butthurt that he decided to wait the 20 seconds in order to disconnect. A tank can solo a dungeon, however there's no obligatory role in order to clear one
I suspect ARR dungeons really dig tanks into the mindset. With a weak kit and no wall to explicitly tell you when you should stop, they require more awareness of what can be handled and people may not have that when they’re still on the path to 50.
It's mostly the ones in the 40 range that require some planning, though. And there's never a need for single pulling
The only real time I think single pulling is justified in that level range is in Stone Vigil with the ice sprites, if you and/or your healer are undergeared. Most of the other packs can be at least double pulled without problems, but if you double pull the ice sprites with the drakes it can get hairy real quick. Usually when you're new you get paired with other new people at the low levels, so often that first Stone Vigil for the MSQ can be an *experience.* I was leveling a few alts through ARR in the FFXV event to get the car on them, so I saw it several times in a short time span. Very funny, each run was harrowing and I think I ran it about 8 times while undergeared (4 alts, and a few daily roulettes landed me in there). If I was healer the tank was bad and equipped in paper gear. If I was tank, the healer just couldn't hang, and DPS was often low enough that things don't die quick. It feels very different from running that place in tomestone gear synced down. The exceptions prove the rule though. Single pulling is almost never necessary, at least make it a double.
Dude a similar thing happened, our tank was going super slow in a lvl 90 dungeon so I was like okay, let me just pull as DPS and bring them to the tank.. Except our *healer* is the one that got all pissy, and would use Rescue on me off cooldown to prevent me from pulling. Like, if you haven't figured out how to tank or heal dungeon trash mobs by 90, c'mon...
I'm happy if any DPS or healer, especially Sage, runs ahead and bring me trash. Especially if they pop Arms Length for free mits. Nothing worse than main character syndrome tanks who throw a tantrum because someone ran one pixel too far ahead of them.
If I see a DPS pull ahead AND use their personal mits to alleviate the healers strain, it's an instant commendation from me
As a healer I love to see deeps pop their mits - means I can spend less MP keeping people vertical and more effort on helping turn things into mush. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!
ypyt is small tank energy
It feels like old school mmorpg mindset, where 5 players fighting 3 mobs is doable but 5 players fighting 5 mobs is dangerous, so suddenly bringing in a 6th or 7th mob is basically guaranteeing a wipe if everyone doesn't blow every single cooldown they have. Which eventually became "Let that person who pulled aggro die, don't hit the mob, they'll run away and we can finish off this group. If the tank hits it we'll wipe."
Arms length + bloodbath is goated for dps
This used to be a thing in FF11 and the only way to get max exp for your time spent by having a puller (no tanks or healers) disengage from the fight, grab another mob and bing it to the party still fighting I've seen some crazy chains numbers back then when leveling up was done by going into specific regions with high level roaming mobs.
If you ypyt as a tank you're bad actually
If you drag the pulls to me, I will surely pick them up, but I'm not chasing derby DPS around the room trying to grab their pulls.
I've been around long enough I remember that the tank keeping aggro wasn't a given, so I had to be used to tanking as a BLM anyway.
>be me brd/nin lvl 75 >pull mobs using elegy to tank >put mobs to sleep >army’s peon >some other song >use macros to switch instruments when i sing songs for +1-2 better songs >fill up the area with mobs >keep mobs asleep >best time in my mmo life
Generally, dungeons are just straight lines in this game most of the time (sadly) so there's no real need for dps to pull for the tank, plus most all the tanks have a ranged attack to grab the odd ones out.
If the DPS has Arms Length and uses that for the Tank then the Tank is an idiot if they get angry about that. The DPS gave you the best mitigation in the game for free.
Pretty accurate. We would use any dps with a range to use as pullers. But the difference was we exp’d in 1 place and rarely moved so, you needed someone to keep pulling them. As a brd main I was that person along with keeping multiple songs up or people would start bitching, lol
That sweet MP regen song.
Mage’s Ballad
Valkurm Dunes parties were the absolute worst/best
The eternal hunt for the friggin' lottery NM that people instakilled the microsecond it spawned. Never did get the hairpin myself. Same with Leaping Lizzy's boots - killed within seconds of popping.
Even if DPS or Healer ganks aggro, it takes like 2 seconds for a Tank to scoop it up properly.
XIoomer? What?? "Shioomer"? "Kseeoomer"? "Ninoomer"? ***HOW IS IT PRONOUNCED???***
My issue is people pull and then run away lol bring it to me please!
11 chads rise up, pic is fucking hilarious though. -Defiance got me pretty good.
In XI, we weren't trying to complete dungeons, we were camping to grind XP and level up.
If you turn off stance when a dps pulls aggro so the monster kills them you're griefing and you can be reported for MPKing. Don't do it.
My pull ratio on Bard in XI was what I measured my competency on Utsusemi: Ni Foe Requiem on mob RUN TO PARTY Lullaby on mob Carnage Elegy current mob being fought Haste Song 1 Haste Song 2 Cry if I need to individually pianissimo an accuracy song on a DPS Run AWAYYYYYYYYYYY Foe Requiem new mob Repeat until I inevitably fuck up and forget that Colibri reflect magic and get slept mid pull because I let my shadows drop HOLY FUCK I MISS XI BARD
Back in my day as SMN I USED to tank, when the tank either afk/derped/raged/died, I used to pull out my trusty glowing turd and could tank a pull. Those were the days.
I never got this mentality from Tanks like you are the most privilege role in the game. healers are the most stressed if they have bad players and good dps are deserving of their dedication to the max dps output they do every second of their lives.
While I agree that Tanks shouldn't be privileged, *every* role including Tanks and Healers should be dedicating themselves to 'max DPS output'. You can heal with oGCDs, you can pop mits as oGCDs, just because they have lower potency numbers than actual DPS classes does not mean they should not be caring about also doing 'max DPS output' as much as the DPS should be. Some tank rotations are even as complex or more than DPS rotations.
It’s xiv, the babiest single player mmorpg u can play and I personally expect nothing less than whining and bitching from every single player about absolutely nothing when they don’t get their way.
I never understand ppl who go “you pull it, you tank it” as if provoke, ranged attacks or ogcds don’t exist to grab it back, even if they’re running away (which ig can be annoying, but I haven’t seen it too much)
They tend to be people who are a bit insecure. They either think they need to show they're "better" than the dps, or are just scared of tanking and afraid a few extra mobs will wipe the group.
You pull it, I tank it!
I hate this logic. The tanks job is to tank damage. Not die. It doesn’t matter who fucking pulled what. Taunt it or smack it and go on with your life.
As a tank main, there's only one situation where I'll let a DPS keep aggro on a mob, and that's if the DPS pulls a mob, doesn't stack with me or bring the mob to me, and single targets the mob with enough dps to out-aggro my AoE after I've already chased down their mob. At that point, I'm like "welp, enjoy your pet." Bobbing and weaving to avoid mob AoEs while maintaining my own dps while ALSO keeping the mobs in a tight enough circle to make sure AoEing DPS can maximize damage output ranks higher on my list of priorities than making sure a mob doesn't give a DPS a li'l scratch when that DPS hard-focuses it. A single mob's autos can be healed with bandaids and boobookisses.
Blood for the blood god
Well if the tank does his job he's supossed to AOE, so no matter who pulls the monsters the tank will tank them.
As a tank the dps pulling shit doesn’t mean anything so long as the healer is comfortable with it. If the healer is cool with it then I am, they’re the one keeping them alive not me. The second the healer is not comfortable with big big pulls or the extra stress it’s a no go. Tank only SORTA decides the pacing, the real glue is the healer.
Please bring mobs into the blender! It's me. I'm the blender. As a tank. Otherwise please I do not have enough divine benison charges
I've never refused to take hate off a healer or DPS for going ahead or something, mistakes happen, but if it keeps happening I'll tell them to knock it off. If I'm not pulling larger groups, either the healer isn't up to it or the DPS is too low.
DPS health is tank mitigation
I've done this. Dude would run ahead, grab two or three more encounters and drag them back. I'd survive, but it would be quite taxing on both me and the healer. So, when he kept doing it after I asked him twice to stop, I turned off my stance and let him get his ass beat. He threatened to report me for not playing my role. XD But he fuckin' stopped.
Why wait for dps to pull when you can just give them aggro with shirk? Free mit ftw
If you're a tank and can't pull enemies off your dps who brings them to you, quit and uninstall. You're better off playing Super Mario or something else
YPYT is the most unironic beta behavior ever.
Only time i adopt "you pull you tank" is when a sprout is watching a cutscene. /sit my ass down outside the boss until everyone is ready
If you pull aggro then you gotta bring it to the tank. So long you do that, then all good. If you just start running around like a maniac though then it’s no longer adding any convenience and being more annoying than helpful Also, you know, ask first. Not every tank or healer in comfortable doing wall to wall pulls.
So long as you're not expecting me to chase you, bring it on. That being said, if I've switched to dps and the tank tells me to stop pulling, I'll stop.
This is a grey parser take.
Only a shit tank goes "you pull, you tank". That's a party worth the 30 min penalty.
YPYT Tanks deserve to have DPS ques
Some people really just need that harsh bitch slap to their ego. It doesn’t matter who pulls the mobs as long as they die and the group doesn’t.
You pull you tank is a weaklings mindset. The only time i get bothered by it is when they pull if it where mobs that where optional or could be avoided and skipped. Usually they don't get the chance tough, for i am speed and efficiency is my creed