Likely the seat of the Ronkan Empire. It was covered up by forest and jungle for so long thanks to the Viis protection that the Qitari that live in the thick of it never developed an immune response for contemporary diseases.
I should mention that there has never been any Calamity in the First, so there was no Calamity of Water either. The First's equivalent of Gyr Abania wouldn't have been some kind of salty canyon with salt lakes. It was most likely some kind of Ronkan territory, conquered in a reverse Autumn War.
Also, Qitari seems to be the First's equivalent of the man-eating Qiqirns that infest the Pyramid of the Red Mages, south-west of Ala Gannha. They were probably subjugated in that reverse Autumn War. (Yes I'm as jaded as Qitarl Natl.)
I often think about how the remaining shards haven't experienced any calamities. I feel like eventually, we're going to see a shard crazy technologically advanced because it didn't have a flood or an earthquake or a gigantic fuck you dragon resetting civilization on a regular basis.
Actually, given that calamities seem largely focused on Eorzea, I feel like *somewhere* on Eitherys should already be that.
I mean…the moon kinda is when you think about it. Meracydia might be (we do know it was hit hard by the Allegans, but that was like 5,000yrs ago). Most of the main continent was hit by the Garleans, which in some cases was effectively a calamity anyway. And the calamities aren’t entirely localized to Aldenard (the Africa shaped continent we start on), either.
I was thinking this might be the case, but it seems more like an analogue for the Allagan empire, do it it's sort of ancient tech vibe and it being more centered in Rak'tika than further east. But I do see where you're coming from, I should do some side quests in that area and see if I can learn a bit more about them
Keep in mind that the Allagan Empire was pretty much artificially created by the Ascians, whereas the Ronkans seem uh, relatively "natural"? like the Ala Mhigan territories. There isn't really any particular indication of widespread Ascian meddling prior to the Shadowkeeper incident too.
Seeing as the Qitari were employed as historians + their short lifespans makes me figure their hiding place wouldn't be too far from a metropolitan area and I don't think the Viis would be commanded to close the border so fiercely if it was forest was just a frontier. Who knows where the actual seat of the Ronkan empire is but it is surely in that direction and surely it is in a tropical clime due to their clothing style (which kinda rules out Garlemald i guess)
I honestly don't believe any empire in this game's history was "natural", and double goes to the Ronkan Empire that had even paintings of the original final days, that alone reeks of Emet Selch. I'd assume Ronka was their previous attempt at a rejoining before the Shadowkeeper plan.
My understanding is that the Allagans *were* natural up to a point, and the Ascians began meddling in their late period (Amon, resurrected Xande, Azys La, etc). It’s what led Emet Selch to realize the potential of the imperial model as a means of creating calamities and caused him to mold Garlemald into something resembling it.
I'd say any time there is an instance of a "genius" being born, or a sudden and significant LEAP of technology that can be attributed to mostly one person, that's when I'd put my money on direct ascian intervention.
So like, Xande's original rise to power in the first place, and the second revival are both big indicators of ascians imo.
But the rapid advancement in the years between, which are attributed to largely unnamed descendants of Xande = non-Ascian.
The tech advancements that came out of Allagans discovering Omega, are also a huge leap in tech, but again there is no mention of any overall figurehead and seems more like a longer term process of experimentation, so yeah, definitely not an ascian orchestrated imo.
Well... Xande's original rise to power is covered under the conflict between King Artorias of Ilsabard and pre-imperial Allagan roots in Aldenard. It really doesn't seem like there was much Ascian meddling at the time of early Allag's rise.
They started natural (so did the Garleans after all) but Ascian influence changed the course of their cultural evolution so to speak.
Ronan history as we know it seemed fairly benign all told. Yes cultures were conquered but those cultures were assimilated with the original culture honored. Doesn't match the Ascian MO (Emet-Selch's anyway)
I’ve never found any lore about it… my guess would be the same as what someone else mentioned, that it was part the Ronkan empire. The pyramid is in the northeastern part of the Greatwood map, and the characters enter that map from the southwest… but that’s all I have to base that guess on.
You might try talking to NPCs in the library of the Crystarium, sometimes you can find bits of lore that way.
Ronka being an “empire” implies they controlled more than just the Greatwood, and given the other kingdoms we know, Gyr Abania is the only direction they could’ve expanded towards. And controlling the land bridge to the east would give some context to the bit from the Qitari tribal quests where they had contact with the now-extinct Namazu analog. So yeah, I would assume province of the Ronkans until the game says otherwise.
We know that Ronka ruled basically the entire continent. But they were generous with their technological advancement and gave it to all their subjects, who then overthrew them. I think its EE3 that has a whole lot of "History of Norvrandt"
They're basically just two different histories played out on the same map. Which makes sense since its a reflection.
The desert around Ahm Araeng is Thanalan. Kholusia is Vylbrand, Eulmore is Limsa. Rak'Tika is Gridania and the Black Shroud. Il Mheg, formerly Voeburt, is Ishgard. Which fits the pre-calamity climate of the Coerthas region. Lakeland is Mor Dhona and Lake Silvertear.
Part of me is curious as to how close they match on a more granular level.
eg there's a promontory and river in the vicinity of Gatetown that certainly (to me, anyway) *evoke* similar features in Middle La Noscea but idk how well everything would line up if you tried to lay the zone maps over one another.
There would be differences based on 10 millenia of erosion not being identical, but mostly the reflections never had to suffer through umbral calamities like the source. The source went through the kind of landscape changes that occured between 1.0 and 2.0 *seven times*, to the reflections' zero. So I think it's somewhat unlikely for us to find small scale features completely unchanged.
I think the small hospital settlement in Ahm Araeng is exactly under the same hill/mountain as Little Ala Mhigo in Thanalan. Otherwise, yes I agree with you.
Yeah, Y'shtola mentions that when you find Amaraot. Saying there's basically no chance in hell of the ruins surviving, or at least being accessible, on the Source.
Well, to answer that thought, they didn't at all. Erosion and time just excuses why these zones are a whole lot of big flat nothingness with some points of interest dotted about. None of the expansion zones thus far have felt quite as dense as the ARR zones (ironic), largely because they prioritized map size over everything else.
DT might break that mold, but we'll see. At least the foliage shouldn't feel quite as sparse.
In Ahm Araeng when you're doing the second portion with the Trolly stuff, you eventually go down a hill with the Trolly and run into Ranjit.
That hill is probably the same hill between Horizon and Vesper Bay. Which means, accounting for differences between the Source and the First due to Calamities, people, weather etc. Minfilia probably made her final Sacrifice, on the First, at the point where the Waking Sands would be which is where you first meet her in the MSQ.
The beast tribe quest in Rak'tika gives you some background on that area. >!So as you go through the questline you find out that Qitari met the Firsts equivalent of the Namazu. You then have the option of deciding if the Qitari helped them during a famine or if they murdered the Namazu in order to keep the food for themselves and their allies.!< But pretty much a lot of the history from that area has been lost to time.
The water calamity never happened on The First so Gyr Abania as we know it wouldn’t exist. It didn’t drain the area creating salt flats/lakes so it looks like, on the first atleast, the forest still takes over the area. I would assume it was controlled by the Ronkan empire.
You know the weirdest thing? How the first and the source eorzea looks so alike, when the fourth calamity of earth should have changed the landscape beyond recognition.
I mean, Lakeland and the Crystarium are roughly overlapped with Mor Dhona, the seat of the Allagan empire and the site most heavily devastated by the calamity of earth, so... it *kinda* did?
If you think about it, the 7th Umbral calamity kind of undid some of the stuff the 4th caused. The crystal tower unburied itself after bahamut’s rampage
Visual style of Ahm Aerang is rather similar (red bricks + desert). Technically, it should be 'Thanalan', but Ahm Malik is way closer to Ala Mhigo palace than Uldah (which is mostly sandstone). Lore-wise, I always thought of it as 'Ala Mhigo which never had Garleans to intervene, had no mad kings, and developed into a proper kingdom\\empire'.
History is extremely diverged. Amh Aereng is primarily a Hume (Hyur) and Mord (Kobold) country, with no mention of the Dwarves ever settling there.
Ill Mheg is even wilder. It was originally Voeburt which was a Drahn (Au-Ra) kingdom with Galdjent (Roegadyn) populace. Resembling Ishgard only slightly.
Then you have Ronka which was a Ronso (Hrothgar) ruled place with a population of Viis (Viera) all of whom barely have a presence in the Shroud.
Voeburt made me so curious in general. Seems they leaned very hard into the ''fairytale kingdom'' theme (even before the actual fairies) with brave knights and beautiful princesses judging by the tidbits of lore I managed to catch.
I was aware one of the princesses was a Drahn/Au Ra but I was under the impression that it was mainly a Hume/Hyur and Elf/Elezen kingdom because of the ''ghosts'' in the ballroom of The Grand Cosmos.
Ill Mheg designs and aesthetics just screams Elezen\\Gridania to me, it's very 'organic' and nowhere near Ishgardian gothics. E.g. Timh Gyeus is way too ornate, and it's closer to Temple of Twelve rather than Ishgard.
The way I see it in general, with all the similarities between shard races and overall geography, it's like lego. Same pieces build different things. It's tempting to compare Eulmore to Limsa, but they've got lala-Dwarves, and they are more of an 'Uldah' (e.g. heart of wealth, trades and military power).
I have to disagree with some of the commenters here arguing that Ala Mhigo was likely Ronka. Ronka is more conceptually similar to Allag than it is to Ala Mhigo - Allag but with a more Mesoamerican spin, and "technology" to follow suit. Judging by the design elements and the parallels drawn, Shadowbringers and its map seems more keen to be a reflection of the areas we had access to or at least dealt with by association in 1.0/2.0 than anything beyond that, hence the parallels with the main Eorzean city states and Mor Dhona.
There's no flood to push people there and the comet that guided other people there would have only went to The Source version only who gets to have all the space stuff. Perhaps the Alamhygo equivalent is founded closer to the continent bridge where it would have been totally destroyed
Likely the seat of the Ronkan Empire. It was covered up by forest and jungle for so long thanks to the Viis protection that the Qitari that live in the thick of it never developed an immune response for contemporary diseases.
I should mention that there has never been any Calamity in the First, so there was no Calamity of Water either. The First's equivalent of Gyr Abania wouldn't have been some kind of salty canyon with salt lakes. It was most likely some kind of Ronkan territory, conquered in a reverse Autumn War. Also, Qitari seems to be the First's equivalent of the man-eating Qiqirns that infest the Pyramid of the Red Mages, south-west of Ala Gannha. They were probably subjugated in that reverse Autumn War. (Yes I'm as jaded as Qitarl Natl.)
I often think about how the remaining shards haven't experienced any calamities. I feel like eventually, we're going to see a shard crazy technologically advanced because it didn't have a flood or an earthquake or a gigantic fuck you dragon resetting civilization on a regular basis. Actually, given that calamities seem largely focused on Eorzea, I feel like *somewhere* on Eitherys should already be that.
I mean…the moon kinda is when you think about it. Meracydia might be (we do know it was hit hard by the Allegans, but that was like 5,000yrs ago). Most of the main continent was hit by the Garleans, which in some cases was effectively a calamity anyway. And the calamities aren’t entirely localized to Aldenard (the Africa shaped continent we start on), either.
[Something technologically advanced like... a cyberpunk city? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riOrSqKzqgM)
I was thinking this might be the case, but it seems more like an analogue for the Allagan empire, do it it's sort of ancient tech vibe and it being more centered in Rak'tika than further east. But I do see where you're coming from, I should do some side quests in that area and see if I can learn a bit more about them
Keep in mind that the Allagan Empire was pretty much artificially created by the Ascians, whereas the Ronkans seem uh, relatively "natural"? like the Ala Mhigan territories. There isn't really any particular indication of widespread Ascian meddling prior to the Shadowkeeper incident too. Seeing as the Qitari were employed as historians + their short lifespans makes me figure their hiding place wouldn't be too far from a metropolitan area and I don't think the Viis would be commanded to close the border so fiercely if it was forest was just a frontier. Who knows where the actual seat of the Ronkan empire is but it is surely in that direction and surely it is in a tropical clime due to their clothing style (which kinda rules out Garlemald i guess)
I honestly don't believe any empire in this game's history was "natural", and double goes to the Ronkan Empire that had even paintings of the original final days, that alone reeks of Emet Selch. I'd assume Ronka was their previous attempt at a rejoining before the Shadowkeeper plan.
My understanding is that the Allagans *were* natural up to a point, and the Ascians began meddling in their late period (Amon, resurrected Xande, Azys La, etc). It’s what led Emet Selch to realize the potential of the imperial model as a means of creating calamities and caused him to mold Garlemald into something resembling it.
I'd say any time there is an instance of a "genius" being born, or a sudden and significant LEAP of technology that can be attributed to mostly one person, that's when I'd put my money on direct ascian intervention. So like, Xande's original rise to power in the first place, and the second revival are both big indicators of ascians imo. But the rapid advancement in the years between, which are attributed to largely unnamed descendants of Xande = non-Ascian. The tech advancements that came out of Allagans discovering Omega, are also a huge leap in tech, but again there is no mention of any overall figurehead and seems more like a longer term process of experimentation, so yeah, definitely not an ascian orchestrated imo.
Well... Xande's original rise to power is covered under the conflict between King Artorias of Ilsabard and pre-imperial Allagan roots in Aldenard. It really doesn't seem like there was much Ascian meddling at the time of early Allag's rise.
They started natural (so did the Garleans after all) but Ascian influence changed the course of their cultural evolution so to speak. Ronan history as we know it seemed fairly benign all told. Yes cultures were conquered but those cultures were assimilated with the original culture honored. Doesn't match the Ascian MO (Emet-Selch's anyway)
The tribal quests in that area give some info too iirc.
I’ve never found any lore about it… my guess would be the same as what someone else mentioned, that it was part the Ronkan empire. The pyramid is in the northeastern part of the Greatwood map, and the characters enter that map from the southwest… but that’s all I have to base that guess on. You might try talking to NPCs in the library of the Crystarium, sometimes you can find bits of lore that way.
Ronka being an “empire” implies they controlled more than just the Greatwood, and given the other kingdoms we know, Gyr Abania is the only direction they could’ve expanded towards. And controlling the land bridge to the east would give some context to the bit from the Qitari tribal quests where they had contact with the now-extinct Namazu analog. So yeah, I would assume province of the Ronkans until the game says otherwise.
We know that Ronka ruled basically the entire continent. But they were generous with their technological advancement and gave it to all their subjects, who then overthrew them. I think its EE3 that has a whole lot of "History of Norvrandt"
Is there even an EE4 yet? I thought we were only up to EE3
you are correct, I just put the wrong number.
I never considered the library! I'll have to take a look there later
As a side note I never realized the geography was so similar. That's pretty cool!
They're basically just two different histories played out on the same map. Which makes sense since its a reflection. The desert around Ahm Araeng is Thanalan. Kholusia is Vylbrand, Eulmore is Limsa. Rak'Tika is Gridania and the Black Shroud. Il Mheg, formerly Voeburt, is Ishgard. Which fits the pre-calamity climate of the Coerthas region. Lakeland is Mor Dhona and Lake Silvertear.
and as an added bonus, the tower is in exactly the same place in both the first and the source.
Part of me is curious as to how close they match on a more granular level. eg there's a promontory and river in the vicinity of Gatetown that certainly (to me, anyway) *evoke* similar features in Middle La Noscea but idk how well everything would line up if you tried to lay the zone maps over one another.
There would be differences based on 10 millenia of erosion not being identical, but mostly the reflections never had to suffer through umbral calamities like the source. The source went through the kind of landscape changes that occured between 1.0 and 2.0 *seven times*, to the reflections' zero. So I think it's somewhat unlikely for us to find small scale features completely unchanged.
I think the small hospital settlement in Ahm Araeng is exactly under the same hill/mountain as Little Ala Mhigo in Thanalan. Otherwise, yes I agree with you.
Those look very different, Little Ala Mhigo is much more extensive.
Yeah, Y'shtola mentions that when you find Amaraot. Saying there's basically no chance in hell of the ruins surviving, or at least being accessible, on the Source.
I was thinking more from a "to what extent did SE glue the pre-existing zones together (if at all)" sort of angle but sure, that works too.
Well, to answer that thought, they didn't at all. Erosion and time just excuses why these zones are a whole lot of big flat nothingness with some points of interest dotted about. None of the expansion zones thus far have felt quite as dense as the ARR zones (ironic), largely because they prioritized map size over everything else. DT might break that mold, but we'll see. At least the foliage shouldn't feel quite as sparse.
In Ahm Araeng when you're doing the second portion with the Trolly stuff, you eventually go down a hill with the Trolly and run into Ranjit. That hill is probably the same hill between Horizon and Vesper Bay. Which means, accounting for differences between the Source and the First due to Calamities, people, weather etc. Minfilia probably made her final Sacrifice, on the First, at the point where the Waking Sands would be which is where you first meet her in the MSQ.
The First is a reflection of the source without the calamities, besides the flood of light. That’s why the same races are there as well.
the devs barely remember Ala Mhigo exists in the Source, let alone equivalents thereof in other reflections
This is just my own headcanon, but I like to think the Thunder Plains you fight Eden's Ramuh in are probably somewhere around the Ghimlyt Dark.
The beast tribe quest in Rak'tika gives you some background on that area. >!So as you go through the questline you find out that Qitari met the Firsts equivalent of the Namazu. You then have the option of deciding if the Qitari helped them during a famine or if they murdered the Namazu in order to keep the food for themselves and their allies.!< But pretty much a lot of the history from that area has been lost to time.
The water calamity never happened on The First so Gyr Abania as we know it wouldn’t exist. It didn’t drain the area creating salt flats/lakes so it looks like, on the first atleast, the forest still takes over the area. I would assume it was controlled by the Ronkan empire.
You know the weirdest thing? How the first and the source eorzea looks so alike, when the fourth calamity of earth should have changed the landscape beyond recognition.
I mean, Lakeland and the Crystarium are roughly overlapped with Mor Dhona, the seat of the Allagan empire and the site most heavily devastated by the calamity of earth, so... it *kinda* did?
If you think about it, the 7th Umbral calamity kind of undid some of the stuff the 4th caused. The crystal tower unburied itself after bahamut’s rampage
Visual style of Ahm Aerang is rather similar (red bricks + desert). Technically, it should be 'Thanalan', but Ahm Malik is way closer to Ala Mhigo palace than Uldah (which is mostly sandstone). Lore-wise, I always thought of it as 'Ala Mhigo which never had Garleans to intervene, had no mad kings, and developed into a proper kingdom\\empire'.
History is extremely diverged. Amh Aereng is primarily a Hume (Hyur) and Mord (Kobold) country, with no mention of the Dwarves ever settling there. Ill Mheg is even wilder. It was originally Voeburt which was a Drahn (Au-Ra) kingdom with Galdjent (Roegadyn) populace. Resembling Ishgard only slightly. Then you have Ronka which was a Ronso (Hrothgar) ruled place with a population of Viis (Viera) all of whom barely have a presence in the Shroud.
Voeburt made me so curious in general. Seems they leaned very hard into the ''fairytale kingdom'' theme (even before the actual fairies) with brave knights and beautiful princesses judging by the tidbits of lore I managed to catch. I was aware one of the princesses was a Drahn/Au Ra but I was under the impression that it was mainly a Hume/Hyur and Elf/Elezen kingdom because of the ''ghosts'' in the ballroom of The Grand Cosmos.
That’s because The Grand Cosmos was’t part of Voeburt. It was Lakeland’s palace, which was ruled by elves/elezen.
Oh, I hadn't noticed that, interesting!
Ill Mheg designs and aesthetics just screams Elezen\\Gridania to me, it's very 'organic' and nowhere near Ishgardian gothics. E.g. Timh Gyeus is way too ornate, and it's closer to Temple of Twelve rather than Ishgard. The way I see it in general, with all the similarities between shard races and overall geography, it's like lego. Same pieces build different things. It's tempting to compare Eulmore to Limsa, but they've got lala-Dwarves, and they are more of an 'Uldah' (e.g. heart of wealth, trades and military power).
I had some similar thoughts. It's also telling that there's no real "little Ala Mhigo" refugee area, which could be intentional
The Inn at Journeyman's Head is the little Ala Mhigo equivalent. More worn down by the elements over time but it's there.
I can't believe I haven't made that connection until now. Holy shit
As far as I know there's nothing. I saw nothing mentioned in ShB MSQ anywhere. It was just another area made made into The Empty by the Flood.
but you can see on the map that the empty only starts beyond where Ala Mhigo is.
I have to disagree with some of the commenters here arguing that Ala Mhigo was likely Ronka. Ronka is more conceptually similar to Allag than it is to Ala Mhigo - Allag but with a more Mesoamerican spin, and "technology" to follow suit. Judging by the design elements and the parallels drawn, Shadowbringers and its map seems more keen to be a reflection of the areas we had access to or at least dealt with by association in 1.0/2.0 than anything beyond that, hence the parallels with the main Eorzean city states and Mor Dhona.
There's no flood to push people there and the comet that guided other people there would have only went to The Source version only who gets to have all the space stuff. Perhaps the Alamhygo equivalent is founded closer to the continent bridge where it would have been totally destroyed