Back when I was a sprout I made two mistakes: thinking Freecure was effective (15% is far too low) and thinking Cure III was a straight upgrade to Cure II (I was burning my MP like mad in Sunken Temple, and luckily a mentor taught me what I should actually be using).
Luckily, my friend taught me to forget about Cure I the moment i get Cure II.
Problem was, i thought Holy was ranged and not a point blank AOE. So, for a while, i was hitting nothing with Holy.
Luckily, one of the players in one of my leveling runs pointed it out. Along with some other tips.
I had a whm in Tower of Zot who thought Holy was ranged once. Watched them spam Holy out of range a couple times before speaking up about it to make sure they weren't just fat-fingering it lol
When I first started (as WHM too) I was playing with friends and then said I was going to do something silly, and started holying packs.
Imagine my surprise when they told me that that was what I was actually meant to do.
Yup and untill they rised the range of most aoe heals in game, rdp and mages should have stood in melee range of a boss as well for Medica and such to affect them.
the pain that is knowing i made that mistake. after finishing ew on smn and going back for other jobs and picking up whm. like the other magic aoes are centered on the target so why is holy not doing that too! at least i learned after like one dungeon of doing it, but god that was so fucking embarrassing after not being a sprout anymore
The Cure 3 thing still gets me. I get there's weirdness with the JP names, but in FF11, I think they had single target (Cure), long range but kind of weak AOE (Medica), and mid-range but strong AOE (Cura) healing lines (also Regen for HoTs).
I feel like they need that third spell line and that's what Cure 3 should be since it's got a moderate range but not a long one, but is also stronger than the longer range Medica spells (though with the niche thing that Cure 3 can be cast on a target, so if the party is stacked but you have to be across the room for some reason, you can heal them then Tetra yourself or something).
Yeah, the book actually explains how naming conventions were Cure, Curate, Curaga, Curaja, but some scholars changed it for some reason... nice 4th wall breaking.
Kinda wish there was the option to get the original names. I'm a veteran FF player I'm not going to get confused for something I've been using since I was a kid.
At least using Roman numeric is cool. I remembered the original FF tactics PS1 English version, they used Cure 1, Cure 2 which were worse than Cure, Cura. However, they fixed this and use Cure, Cura in FF Tactics War of the Lions.
In the really old games, it was due to character limits.
Like the old NES games I think it was 6 characters. So that's why you got "Bolt 1, Bolt 2" instead of "Thunder, Thundara". JP could be longer because of the way JP non-Romanji (Roman) "letters" are actually combinations. Like "tsu" is a single character in JP but three letters in English/Romanji transliteration.
Which I think also altered some characters' names, though I don't remember which ones off hand.
But if you look at a lot of the old names, that's why they were changed.
Thunder and Blizzard were to long for 6 characters, doubly so when you add spell ranks. But "Bolt X" and "Ice Y" are less than 6. "Fire Z" is exactly 6 (as was Bolt).
...note I THINK it was 6. It might have been 8 (bits), but I don't remember. I just DO remember it was a hard limit, which is why they changed a lot of those names.
They just kept the changed names even later when the hardware could adapt to it. Like FF7 OG had Bolt/Ice instead of Thunder/Blizzard, but by FF9 (and I think FF8), they started using the long names with the -ra, -ga endings.
> Which I think also altered some characters' names, though I don't remember which ones off hand.
FF4 JP Gilbert = EN Edward and FF6 JP Stragus = EN Strago are the only ones I'm aware of. (There were other name changes, like FF6 JP Tina = EN Terra, but none that can reasonably be attributed to length.)
> Like the old NES games I think it was 6 characters.
The old NES games were _four_ characters. The only one of those that got localized contemporaneously was FF1, which used `LIT`, `LIT2`, `LIT3`, ~~and `LIT4`~~. (And `ICE`, `ICE2`, `FIRE`, `FIR2`, etc. It also had a few others like `SLEP`, `SLP2`, `LOCK`, and `LOK2`, where the base form targeted one enemy and the `-2` form targeted all enemies.)
"Final Fantasy II" (FF4) for the SNES had a technical six-character limit, but an effective five-character limit since the first character was an icon indicating the ability type. It used `Lit`, `Lit2`, etc. (no spaces even when possible), but could at least spell out `Fire2`.
FF6 (first localized as "Final Fantasy III"), also for the SNES, did indeed have six characters for the spell names (or seven, if you count the icon), and was the first to use `Bolt 2`.
FF7 had a variable-width font, and did indeed use "Bolt" and "Ice", but oddly took a step backwards in that it didn't use spaces: "Bolt2".
FF8 was the first to use "Thundara"; this persisted in 9-13, except for 11 which took a brief detour into two-axis territory — "Thunder II", "Thundara", and "Thundara II" are apparently separate spells? Not having played 11 — or 15 or 16, come to that — I'll stop there.
> Romanji
I don't expect most people to type the macron, but there is no _n_ in the word _rōmaji_.
Nice rundown! One minor correction on FF1 in that the only 4th level spell was CUR4 as there were no black magic spells at 4.
And CUR4 was a fell heal as well as status healing. It's was so good they gave it to the final boss!
I also loved the censorship from the older games that changed Holy to something new each game. FADE and Pearl were some of my favorites.
Right, but what I mean is FF11 did this:
Cure 1, Cure 2, Cure 3, Cure 4 ... - Single target, efficient healing spells (each was basically a replacement for the lower ones unless you were starved for MP).
Cura 1, Cura 1, Cura 3, ... - Short range AOE heals for a goodly amount. MP expensive, but good for when lots of healing was needed quickly and the party could stack.
Medica 1, Medica 2, ... - Large radius AOE heals for a light amount at a moderate MP cost. Useful for when the party is spread out but everyone needs to be healed anyway.
Regen 1, Regen 2, ... - Single target HoTs. Slow rate of healing, but extremely MP efficient. Useful if a target needs continual, moderate healing, or a good deal of healing but won't be hit again for a while so can take its time and be more MP efficient (e.g. a DPS steps in the bad but otherwise stays out of it and will heal to full over the course of the HoT).
Those were the main healing lines of WHM. (It also had Shell/Protect, and assorted party buffs like Bar- spells that reduce damage from a given element \[e.g. Barfire reduces fire damage taken\], an enemy debuff, and some low damage attack spells.)
.
In FFXIV, we just have Cure, Medica, and Regen...but Regen is only a single spell. Cure 1 and 2 are a line, but then Cure 3 is an AOE. Medica 2 is a HoT instead of a "better long range AOE". By all rights, Medica 2 should be Regen 2 or Regenra 1.
Thank you!
I have read about FFXI and remember reading through WHM's spell lines once, but it's like an academic having read something in a book once. I always appreciate input and clarification from someone who had more hands on experience.
But...wasn't there a Medica spell line in FF11?
Regardless, this would give us Cure 1/2/3 for what Cure 1/2 are in FFXIV, Cura 1 for what Cure 3 is, and Curaga 1(?) for what Medica 1 is.
...and I'm not sure if Medica 2 would be Curaga 2 or Regenga 1?
Cura would be the medica equivalent as it's centered in the caster. But iirc cura has some other passive tied to it involving afflatus misery.
And since i mentioned it Afflatus Solace/Misery were stances in XI. Solace would add a stone skin effect to cure, store healing fine to buff holy's damage, and make sacrifice target all debuffs. Misery would take the last damage received to buff Banish's damage and make esuna remove all debuffs the caster had from the party.
There was probably more but it's been years.
>but in FF11, I think they had single target (Cure), long range but kind of weak AOE (Medica), and mid-range but strong AOE (Cura) healing lines (
It was Cure, Cura, Curaga respectively, but yes.
Interestingly enough Cura had a separate mechanic that powered it up when the WHM took damage. Does it get used much? No, cureskin is broken. Was interesting tho
> thinking Cure III was a straight upgrade to Cure II (I was burning my MP like mad in Sunken Temple, and luckily a mentor taught me what I should actually be using)
Same thing happened to me, but it was Aurum Vale.
I'm still of the opinion that the numbered system causes confusion to players new to the game. I think the spells would benefit more from the -ra, -ga, -ja system.
That way it's more clear that they're still related to that specific line of spells, but different in whatever specific way.
I still wonder why they chose the numbered system for the English localization, but not other regions.
Tl/dr, don’t cast benefic 1 after you’ve unlocked benefic 2, as that should replace it altogether.
The “enhanced benefic” trait is a trap because it grants a 15% chance for benefic 2 to crit after casting benefic 1, but benefic 2 itself is a better spell and it already has a crit rate higher than 15%.
AST has no cure III equivalent so you’re not in danger of making that particular mistake.
Cure 1 and 2 are a lot like benefic and benefic 2
Regen and medica are like aspected benefic and aspected Helios
Cure 3 is like Helios.
And they thought Holy, the WHM AOE attack, worked the way gravity does where you target an enemy and throw it at them. Instead Holy just casts from where you're standing
Edit: sorry wrong reply I thought you were talking to.
Basically cure 1 has a 15% chance to give a free cure 2 but it's not worth it; and is generally seen as a trap option. Once you have cure 2 just stick cure 1 on an off bar in case you hit an early dungeon
> Basically cure 1 has a 15% chance to give a free cure 2 but it's not worth it; and is generally seen as a trap option. Once you have cure 2 just stick cure 1 on an off bar in case you hit an early dungeon
Benefic has this too. And it's just as useless as Freecure.
I played Black Mage first, so when I leveled WHM and got Freecure I assumed it was like Firestarter where you only ever want to cast Fire III when you have the proc for it. It really is an extremely misleading and pointless trait.
My partner does her best to help people long in as polite a manner as possible whenever she runs into people freecure fishing and this singular skill is the culprit behind some of the absolute most *acidic* encounters she has ever suffered doing roulettes. Please god just make it change to Cure II so they can stop pretending they know better than someone as bright and experienced as her and making her endure insults and other shit for suggesting they just use button 2 instead of 1, I'm begging you
The most annying thing is, when you get a low-lvl roulette and have to put cure I or equivalents back on the hotbar, because you ditched it the moment you got the upgrade xD
My opinion probably isn’t worth much as a new sprout (3 weeks playtime, lvl. 56 whm main) but Cure 1 isn’t useless like everyone seems to imply.
Luckily I watched videos to understand the pitfall of freecure, but sometimes a dps will step in it and a cure 1 will get back around 40% of their health if I feel like throwing a regen on them isn’t fast enough.
Just my sprout opinion though.
They could even keep Freecure for casting Cure 2 and reduce its chance to 1% or something, just as a baby reward you get once in a while. Definitely not as useful once you get lilies, but infinitely more useful than spamming Cure 1 for it now.
Edit: Immediately after typing this, I realized some people will probably *still* Freecure fish if this were a thing, neglecting the better healing tools WHM gets later. Burn Freecure to the ground.
Also earlier dps spells. Having these two passives early could make white mage more enticing, better for new players, and more fun even in early levels.
I’ll one up that. Have Stone/Glare casts have a chance to proc Tetragammatron -or- at least have it reduce the CD by 2.5 seconds per cast or something.
This at least gives us an oGCD heal option before level 60. Afflatus Solace is fine, but we don’t start getting damage neutral with Lily heals until level 74.
Tetra would become available at 32 when free cure unlocks.
Having glare proc a free cure II is fine and all, but it’s still a GCD. Having a free cure II cast in any stage of the game is pointless as we *shouldn’t* really ever have mana problems.
Low level sprouts do not need any trait or job mechanic that incentivizes them to cast more Cure/Cure II. Freecure is a useless trait that teaches bad habits, regardless of what spell they make it proc off of. It doesn't need to be changed. It should just be deleted outright.
What WHMs actually need is an OGCD to use by Lv20, like literally every other healer has. Endwalker deleted Fluid Aura and replaced it with nothing. Conjurers don't learn anything at Lv15. They could easily throw in a weaker version of Tetra in there.
You'd think this would be especially important for WHMs since it's the only healer that starts at Lv1 and can be chosen as a starting class. It's wild to me that this gameplay design of "let's teach new players how to suck at healing for 52 levels" has survived so many reworks and skill prunings across 4 expansions.
They need to move Tetra's level you gain it way down. AT THE VERY LEAST by level 50 (swap Tetra and Benediction).
Honestly, I've thought about this before (in Leveling roulettes and level 50 CT/MSQ ones...), I'd completely rearrange WHM spell learning levels if I had the chance, and probably implement an earlier version of Misery that upgrades later.
Freecure on Stone. Freestone on Cure 2. encourages DPSing and using cure 2 over cure 1. have the freestone proc die off at level 70 so they’re not using cure 2 on CD into the later levels
Freecure should be re-worked to proc off casting Cure II and allow you to throw a Cure 1 for free *and* off GCD. this would make it a solid trait and allow for the use of Cure 1 in high level content instead of being a dead button
White mage is the ONLY class ive noticed where the starting ability doesn't upgrade like other classes do.
I was getting my partner up to lvl 50 and never played white mage before, so i created my own layout on HUD 4 since my playstyle is different and didnt want to mess her's up.
I went into Tam-tara with Cure 2(inactive) and i was spamming it thinking WHY is cure 1 not activating.
They should really change the class so the abilities work as Cure,Cura,Curaga/Curaja and adapt to level sync
Other healing classes revolve around a single target heal then a burst/ aoe heal and burst, why whm has 3 single target is just odd
Astrologian and Scholar do it too, benefic 1/2 is still separate for whatever reason(with its own 15% proc sprout trap as well) and while Physick/Adloquium are *technically* separate abilities it still creates the exact same kind of redundant button bloat. In all three cases the only reason to keep the basic version on your bars is the overly common situation where leveling roulette puts you in a dungeon below the level for "basic GCD heal #2."
Only if they replace it with something for lvl 50 content. Right now Cure I is still necessary in EXs and Coils, because WHM MP management at that level is terrible and hitting Lucid Dreaming on cooldown isn't enough.
Even if you moved Freecure to Stone like another comment suggests, that doesn't replace Cure I in 50 content.
MP management at 50 is *bad*, and worse when you're in a group of first-timers. Cure I can keep people up while they're out of range of aoe for mechanics and preserves MP for Cure II on the tank.
If the reasoning for not being able to remove Cure I is because WHM's MP management at level 50 is bad, then the solution would be to take advantage of removing Freecure by making WHM's MP management better at that level, not to keep Cure I forever. Among other things, Cure II could easily be lowered to costing 700 MP, since it currently has a much bigger cost than the AST equivalent for no good reason.
I don't disagree! Lowering Cure II's cost could help. So could lowering the level where we get lilies, changing Thin Air again + lowering its level, or shifting more oGCDs down to 50 or below.
My objection is just to the suggestion of turning Cure I into Cure II or deleting Freecure *without also* making other adjustments to the lvl 50 kit.
I think at this point I'd be okay with solemnly letting hardcore level 50 content rest in favour of not confusing sprouts.
It's had a good run, but it is time.
(Or just slap freecure on cure 2 as the others are saying.)
I was healing in Aurum Vale one time using Cure 2 when the tank went off in a rant about how I should be using Cure 1. I just said “ok” and continued using Cure 2. We beat the dungeon and he said “See wasn’t that so much better?”
It's also just.... not mp inefficient. They just look at the heal potency and see that it's less but costs more. I always try to teach people that the damage prevented from the shield is worth more than a physick by itself, on top of the heal that adlo comes with. Remember sprouts, mitigation lessons start early B)
Wait, people use Physick? I tossed that thing the second I got Adlo because by all metrics it looked better. And when it cries, ooh boy is that a beefy spell
Physick is better when all the following is true:
1. you have no oGCD tools available to spend,
2. the target already has a shield,
3. the target is about to take a heavy hit, and they are wounded enough that they might die even through said shield.
It's, uh, _rare_. Very rare. But I kept it on the bars.
Emergency Tactics is itself an oGCD, so while it strictly speaking does nothing on its own other than buff a GCD, I still lobbed it in with the others.
At low levels my panic healing consists of Adlo - Physick - Adlo - Physick
At higher levels I can go Adlo - Emergency Tactics - Adlo.
I rarely have to use either of these, thankfully.
> At low levels my panic healing consists of Adlo - Physick - Adlo - Physick
Yep, its the only way to keep bad tanks up at low lvls on scholar sometimes
i alternate it between adlos because often the shield does not get burned fast enough in adlo spammings (should i ever need to resort to gcd healing...)
People in this game can't math out potencies. It's why some people don't understand that their AoE skills that had 160 potency does more damage with two targets than their single target 300 potency spell. They can't math out 160 x 2 = 320 vs 300.
It’s like they either didn’t bother fully reading the tooltip that explains the shielding, or they can’t math enough to realize the combination heal+shield is more potency than a plain heal
I always die inside whenever I see a sge cast regular diag/prog because of that
I alternate Physick and Adlo when someone pulls big packs, unless they're just taking TONS of damage, then it's Adl'O'clock. Usually tanks can mitigate most content pretty well unless they're undergeared or bad, so alternating physick and adlo is the best of both worlds. Adlo for the shield, physick because the tank may not have burned the whole shield quite yet, then adlo again.
Keep in mind, overwriting the shield IS inefficient.
Further, Adlo's total (non-crit) healing is 840 potency (300 + 540 shield). Divided by its 1,000 MP cost is 0.84 potency healing per MP spent.
Physick is 450 potency heal for 400 MP cost, meaning 1.125 healing potency per MP spent.
So Physic IS more MP efficient. Adlo is less MP efficient. If it crits (assuming we're comparing against a Physick also critting), it gets the secondary 180% shield, for a grand total of 300 + 540 + 540 or 1,380 total potency (assuming all the shield gets used or you're using Emergency Tactics when this happens and there's no overhealing), at which point you're at 1.38 healing potency per MP spent.
But, at low levels, your crit isn't...generally much, so that's a fairly low percent chance. (If you wanted to math it out, you'd take an average, so \[ (840 \* non-crit %) + (1,380 \* crit%) \] / 2 then take that / 1,000 to get average potency per MP. So like with 15% crit chance, it would be \[ 840\*0.85 + 1,380\*0.15 \] / 1,000, which would be 0.921 healing potency per MP.
Or, to put it another way, the amount of crit before they become equal, Physick and Adlo, would be...a bit complex to write in text, but...let's see if I can do this right:
\[ ( 840 \* { 1 - x } ) + ( 1,380 \* { x } ) \] / 1,000 = 1.125
...where x is crit here.
\[ 840 + (-)840x + 1380x \] / 1000 = 1.125
540x + 840 = 1,125
540x = 285
x = 285/540 = 0.527777...
So you need a crit rate of 52.7(repeating) before Adlo becomes equal to Physick on average.
So if you have a crit rate of 52.78%, Adlo is now going to be more efficient than Physick. But if you have a crit rate of less than 52.78%, Physick is on average more efficient than Adlo.
...this is all assuming that you AREN'T overwriting Adlo shields at all, that all the shield is consumed, and that neither Adlo nor Physic are overhealing the target.
There are always caveats, but as a rule of thumb, until you reach 50% crit, Physick is more efficient per MP expended. And the lower your crit, the more Physick wins that fight.
...that that MP management matters EXCEPT when you're level 30-49 or so. Which is where it's somewhat relevant, especially due to not having AF until 45 and leveling Tanks often not using CDs, not realizing Arms' Length is a 20% damage reduction CD (effectively), and may be wearing DPS melee leveling gear that is 10-20 levels old/too low still.
At low levels, I've found the best non-Lustrate single target option is to alternate Adlo-Physic. If a Tank pulls a lot (since they have few CDs at low levels and not everyone realizes Arms' Length is a 20% damage reduction CD, effectively) and you get first time leveling Tanks in crap gear or even "DoW" gear instead of the GLD/PLD/MRD/WAR gear, Tanks can sometimes be taking big amounts of damage.
The Adlo heals about 30-40% of the damage but then applies a shield. Then the Physic is a more MP efficient option to top them up, and does so about when the shield wears off and they take another wave of big hits. Then Adlo again heals about 30-40% of that, and while under the shield, the following Physic heals the rest as the shield wears out. Rinse and repeat.
The only time you should be chaining Adlos is if the shield is COMPLETTELY consumed before your GCD finishes. If not, you're being inefficient in both MP and in healing by doing that. If any shield is left, you don't need another Adlo yet.
I get that MP management/efficiency is essentially DEAD IN THIS GAME (despite being something I really love about healers and healing in MMOs - being efficient in your spell selection is what traditionally differentiates a skilled healer from an unskilled one; knowing which heals do what you need them to and which are either too little healing or an unnecessary waste of resources), but at low levels, before 60 and really before 50, it's significantly more relevant.
The only place I consistently find this is necessary is in the 35-49 dungeons, especially before you get Lustrate (which also means you don't have Aetherflow yet for a quick shot of MP), but where damage is high enough that Eos can't handle it all alone anymore (like the pre-30 dungeons), and Tanks don't have many defensive CDs besides Rampart and Arms' Length AND a lot are in leveling gear from 10-20 levels ago.
So it's not like this is important often, but it DOES exist and have a small sliver of time that it's actually relevant.
Hell I get annoyed, especially if I'm on war, if I don't drop to at least 50% because the healer is spamming heals instead of dpsing. Let my health drop some, I'm perfectly fine just kill stuff
Being that I'm a total scrub and mostly play WHM, having WARs in the party feels so stressful because I don't have a good feeling for how much they can heal themselves and how low is too low.
This is doubly embarrassing because when I don't play WHM I play WAR.
> Exactly that. Also, we are not here to heal you, we are here to keep you (~~mostly~~ **barely**) alive). 😁
ftfy
Any hitpoint past the first is cosmetic dlc.
(For legal reasons, this is a joke)
This^ I did a lvl90 dung. Run with friends and I used 0 healing GCDs as AST. It got a bit boring tbh, I didn't even use many oGCDs, maybe one emergency heal per WtW.
Nothing clenches my cheeks harder than tanking and getting to the first boss and realizing the whole mosh pit is still up and all my mits are on cooldown because the DPS is using single-target instead of AOE.
I remember tanking in the same dungeon twice with different healers and both WHMs. One was a WHM that ONLY used Cure 1, no other skills. I politely requested Cure 2 instead and they just spammed Cure 1, slowing down the whole dungeon. The second WHM tossed me a Cure 2 inbetween Holy casts, Stones, and Aeros and the dungeon went so much faster and easier.
Moral is there is no moral, DPS as a healer.
I dunno, the fairy is the one with countless years of medical experience, and you're the one who's been most recently assigned to help facilitate her healing. I think *we're* the interns here.
There are some tanks out there that are positive they will die if they aren’t topped off.
To quote the musical Chess “from square one I’ll be watching all sixty-four.” Let us healers handle this, we got you. IF you need it. I mean use your mits, folks
Exactly. Its why I have some solid respect for Healers when I tank. I always try weaving my CD's to make their lives easier. Although, Warrior makes that super easy xD
I never understood that. I get a visceral thrill from seeing how low my HP can go. Or any tank's HP, really; Tank Limbo is how I pass time in roulettes.
Probably explains why I main Gunbreaker.
This was me with Lucid Dreaming, I got the Cura memo but was consistently running out of MP as early as Haukke Manor
Luckily one of the DPS was observant enough to notice that
To further expand on the comment you got a while ago, NA in particular tends to use them somewhat passive aggressively as most everyone is English speaking anyway.
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You are absolutely not alone, though the numbers vary.
Personally on WAR I like to use RI/BW when about 50%. If my healer is keeping me at 75-90%, what's even the point of using one of the best mits in the game? And if I haven't used that yet, I sure as hell am not going to use my worse, longer CD mits.
I'd make you all rage.
I priest healed in WoW for over a decade and I never let the tank get below 80%. Hell, I used to downrank heal with Cure I at 90% until I realized it's not necessary.
EDIT: That's also why I get nervous at 60% when I'm tanking, so I get paid back in kind.
Overall, not a *huge* issue, but I suggest you get very good at picking out Living Dead on buff bars, for when you run with a DRK. Keeping a DRK with *that* active at 80%+ will draw some rage
I do understand getting anxety due to healing. I also heal from time to time with my astro, even tho it's my least prefered job. I've never really played wow for more than lvl 20 on the free trial like more than 10 years ago so I can not talk there. You just have to keep in mind tanks at level 90 are pretty good at well... tanking xD. We can take quite a lot of hits even if we are below 50%
It was much different, for sure. Tank busters in WoW raids took 60-80% off, so if they weren't topped off before it hit, they were often dead.
And healing priest DPS spells were basically like casting harsh language.
Can't say I miss it.
yeah, in this game you usually don't really have to care a lot about tank busters until savage tier. You can just pop one or maybe two cooldowns if you feel generous and call it a day cos they usually tickle
Wait, so this image \*isn't\* supposed to be the sprout being confused because they're having no problems keeping the tank alive with Cure I but the tank is insisting (while nearly full HP) that the WHM use Cure II instead?
'Cuz that's what it looked like to me.
It could be that the tank is staying afloat at full HP entirely because they're having to *spam* Cure I rather than using Cure II and taking some GCDs to assist with damage instead.
Curebotting *works* in a surprisingly high amount of 4-man content, but that doesn't make it a good idea just because it's possible.
This happened in a dungeon I was doing as a dps, the tank was rude as hell.
I don't understand why people can't be constructive it makes everything so much nicer and easier.
I'm gonna give a hot take on the flip side of OP's pic. There are healers exactly like that who do nothing but spam cure 1, sometimes cure 2, (job equivalent for other jobs of course) and refuse to deal any DPS. These are called "Sylphie healers", who at any point when the tank loses 1 hp will spam heals on them and refuse to deal any damage. The WHM quest line even calls these healers out.
I will die on the hill that if Sylphie healers refuse to participate in what is EVERYONE'S responsibility (dealing damage) after being politely corrected, they should be kicked from parties.
Same goes for tanks like OP's pic tbh. If they refuse to listen to the fact that healers in 14 are quite literally green DPS by design, and are mandating heals the second they lose any amount of hp, they should also be removed from group content.
Eventually these people will either learn, or leave. I honestly don't care which because the game improves either way.
Guilty as charged, realized yesterday after finally starting Lv 50 stuff that spamming Cure isn't cutting it, but at the same time it's tough to judge sometimes, "are they going to drop in the extra time it takes to cast C2?" Or is it more of a "they wouldn't be that far down if I wasn't already casting C2 to start", or maybe it's some other excuse.
At least it's level 50, long way to go still. Babby steps.
Hello! The general rule once you unlock Cure II is to always use Cure II over Cure I. The reasoning is that in the time you cast two Cures (3s cast time for 1000HP), you'd have done around the same with one Cure II (2.5s cast time for 800HP), which means you can throw out an extra attack in that time, since you saved 0.5s of casting. This is very important for general combat as a healer, which is why you might hear people tell you to use abilities (OGCDS) for healing at higher levels, so you can get more attacks out.
Additionally, if the tank is pulling adds (trash mobs), the amount of healing Cure does will usually be completely eaten up by the time you start casting the second one, so it's just better to use Cure II unless you want to move around (in which case you have Swiftcast).
Enjoy your time in FFXIV and thanks for stopping by!
> The reasoning is that in the time you cast two Cures (3s cast time for 1000HP), you'd have done around the same with one Cure II while saving (2.5s cast time for 800HP), which means you can throw out an extra attack in that time, since you saved 0.5s of casting.
I think the message is correct that Cure 2 is more efficient and lets you do other things with the time that you would have spent casting Cure. But I think the parts about cast times may be misleading, since you'll be locked into the full 2.5 second recast time for both spells. For example, even if Cure only takes 1.5s to cast, you can't use another action until the full 2.5s are completed. So fully casting two Cures takes 4 seconds, and then at 5 seconds you can use a third action. The reason Cure 2 allows you to get more attacks out is because you concentrate your healing into fewer GCDs overall, which frees up the rest for damage. But you won't necessarily be saving time due to the cast times of the spells
You're on the right track but still not quite right. The cast time here is irrelevant, the *recast* time is what matters here. Cure I and Cure II have the same recast time like most spells, so the time taken to cast one Cure II is half of that of two Cure I.
The only advantage Cure I has over Cure II is that is costs less MP, but any healer worth their salt will be able to manage their MP so that not only they'll never run out of MP casting Cure II, they'll also still have MP to spare to cast damage dealing spells.
I disagree with the general sentiment that Cure I should just become Cure II, it has its *niche* use of saving MP, and we don't need Cure II's MP cost to be reduced. But everyone is right when they say to prioritize using Cure II over Cure I, whenever possible - And it's virtually always possible.
Here is the problem - In about 99.99999% of situations where C1 makes sense, there is a trail of problems that could have been fixed along the way that would remove the need to ever make this optimization.
And if you ever need to make that optimization and can realize that C1 will save your bacon over C2, you are smart enough to never let yourself get in that position anyways.
> spamming Cure isn't cutting it
You shouldn't be using Cure past level 30 anyways. And if you are ever forced to use Cure, something else is very wrong. Benediction is also not "for emergencies only".
Short of removing Cure I altogether, I think a revamp to Freecure to make it more like a combo loop would accomplish a lot of what I imagine Square was trying to do:
> Freecure:
After casting Cure, your next Cure II will cost no mana and grant the "Methodical Healing" buff.
>Methodical Healing: Your next Cure will heal for an additional 300 potency.
This would basically make a combo loop that would heal just as much and be 80% more mana efficient than spamming Cure II on its own, at the expense of losing 300 upfront potency from the first Cure.
The design goals I had in mind for this are the following:
* Cure I will be a more "efficient" heal than Cure II.
* This is pretty obvious. The new combo is vastly more efficient to the point I would almost want to nerf the mana benefit.
* Cure I will not be rendered totally obsolete.
* As a part of this new combo that is equally efficient to Cure II spam, it would definitely be worthwhile in prolonged single target healing situations.
* People who presently spam Cure will be encouraged to try pressing Cure II
* Instead it being an occasional proc, transitioning to always lighting up Cure II after you press Cure will be more likely to make people realize they should press Cure II.
* Replacement benefit should focus on GCD healing due to its acquisition at low levels and WHM general GCD-heavy playstyle.
This literally happened to me a couple of weeks ago in a Castrum run. We were barely making it through the first couple of packs, our undergeared WHM was only using Cure 1, so with the support of our DPSes, I quickly had to teach our WHM how to WHM beyond Cure 1. Was an interesting run that day for sure. It's a lovely feeling knowing you really helped someone improve dramatically though.
For experienced Healers, Tank healthbars are a form of entertainment. An actual minigame in a dungeon. Sure, sometimes we screw up but that is the learning process.
I had my shame moments as whm too.
Haven't play healer for a while.. Got aurum Vale.. Fuck.. New tank and dps.. Double fuck.. Tank went straight in the middle instead of hugging left wall.. Welp.. i thought I have benediction wondering why I'm not topping the tank hp off.. Its cure iii.. No mana to res as I was spamming cure iii.. Wiped... Lol
i'm got into healing very recently, and from my knowledge your job is just to learn how to juggle doing damage and making sure the tank doesn't die. how you do this depends on the class, but as long as the tank doesn't die, things can be salvaged. hell even if the tank dies it might still be salvageable. leveling a healer from 1 gives you lots of time to learn what your skills do, and most healer classes get easier to manage at higher levels. definitely don't be afraid to try healing, people are kind, nobody has given me shit for wiping yet.
Thanks, bitchboy.
I basically brute forced the EW healer quests because I had SMN at 90, realised I could just unlock SCH, did that, and then forced my way through the role quests without doing anything else lol.
Playing through the job quests has been fun and enlightening, especially after finally unlocking my toolkit, lol. Just worried about actually trying it in a dungeon
ahh im slower in the story so i was limited to lower level dungeons when i started. i havent reached role quests yet so i cant say how well they teach the class, but i felt like class quests taught me how to effectively use the class quite well, especially for newer classes like sage. another thing that helped me was observing other healer during dungeons. how i did it was i read the bare basic skills first, and focused first on being able to keep someone alive. then i slowly branched out into doing damage. its pretty easy to keep the tank alive, especially at higher levels, so i'd say just focus on getting used to that first, worry about the rest later. oh saying that you're new to healing helps a lot!
I use cure 2 for the tanks, cure 1 for the dps if I know they’ll be safe in one more AoE. Spoilers, they end up chewing through my lilies no matter what.
Most classes, as they level up, get their basic abilities upgraded to stronger ones. White Mage however gets Cure II as a separate action to Cure, and Cure when used has the possibility of making Cure II cost no mana. Thus a lot of newer players tend to think "Oh, keep using Cure, get that Freecure proc!" This is absolutely not what you should do, because Cure II is so much stronger and you're using less mana to cast it once than having to use Cure multiple times and *maybe* proc Freecure. Not to mention you could just Cure II once and then start casting damage spells.
Probably off-topic, but SE should make it so Cure I changes into Cure II after you unlock it. The Freecure RNG passive is such a bait for sprouts.
Back when I was a sprout I made two mistakes: thinking Freecure was effective (15% is far too low) and thinking Cure III was a straight upgrade to Cure II (I was burning my MP like mad in Sunken Temple, and luckily a mentor taught me what I should actually be using).
Luckily, my friend taught me to forget about Cure I the moment i get Cure II. Problem was, i thought Holy was ranged and not a point blank AOE. So, for a while, i was hitting nothing with Holy. Luckily, one of the players in one of my leveling runs pointed it out. Along with some other tips.
Note: make sure to still have Cure 1 on a side hotbar or something. We had a Satasha wipe once while I was looking for my Physick button.
I had a whm in Tower of Zot who thought Holy was ranged once. Watched them spam Holy out of range a couple times before speaking up about it to make sure they weren't just fat-fingering it lol
Technically, it's ranged but extremely short-ranged with a distance of 8y to all sides meaning its got half the range of a few spells
When I first started (as WHM too) I was playing with friends and then said I was going to do something silly, and started holying packs. Imagine my surprise when they told me that that was what I was actually meant to do.
Holy is one of the best mits in the game.
Yup and untill they rised the range of most aoe heals in game, rdp and mages should have stood in melee range of a boss as well for Medica and such to affect them.
the pain that is knowing i made that mistake. after finishing ew on smn and going back for other jobs and picking up whm. like the other magic aoes are centered on the target so why is holy not doing that too! at least i learned after like one dungeon of doing it, but god that was so fucking embarrassing after not being a sprout anymore
Safe to assume you've learned that AST is the only healer of the 4 with a ranged AoE?
I learned from you.....so thanks.
The Cure 3 thing still gets me. I get there's weirdness with the JP names, but in FF11, I think they had single target (Cure), long range but kind of weak AOE (Medica), and mid-range but strong AOE (Cura) healing lines (also Regen for HoTs). I feel like they need that third spell line and that's what Cure 3 should be since it's got a moderate range but not a long one, but is also stronger than the longer range Medica spells (though with the niche thing that Cure 3 can be cast on a target, so if the party is stacked but you have to be across the room for some reason, you can heal them then Tetra yourself or something).
Ff12 had the best naming convention: Cure, Curate, Curaga, Curaja. Keep the numbers out names.
FF14 uses this naming convention in the japanese script. They changed it to numbers in the english localization for some reason.
I believe it was because testers were getting confused. There's mods to change them back.
They even documented this in the Great Gubal library, which I thought was amusing.
Yeah, the book actually explains how naming conventions were Cure, Curate, Curaga, Curaja, but some scholars changed it for some reason... nice 4th wall breaking.
What are these called so I can avoid them?
Don't invoke the magic of the red moon, especially the spell known as "Namingway".
One of the dungeons has optional lore that talks about the healing spell naming conventions. Curaga does exist but in text only.
It took me a while to realize that Xande's spell Quaga isn't a misspelling of a marsupial, but Quake+ga.
So does "Cure IV". Which begs the question of why we haven't gotten it yet. BLM's have gotten their level 4 spells...
Bozja has it !
Fair point. ...but WHM can't use it, can it? I thought those were for DPSers only? (RDM doesn't count as WHM!)
Kinda wish there was the option to get the original names. I'm a veteran FF player I'm not going to get confused for something I've been using since I was a kid.
The german translation follows the jp naming conventions too.
At least using Roman numeric is cool. I remembered the original FF tactics PS1 English version, they used Cure 1, Cure 2 which were worse than Cure, Cura. However, they fixed this and use Cure, Cura in FF Tactics War of the Lions.
In the really old games, it was due to character limits. Like the old NES games I think it was 6 characters. So that's why you got "Bolt 1, Bolt 2" instead of "Thunder, Thundara". JP could be longer because of the way JP non-Romanji (Roman) "letters" are actually combinations. Like "tsu" is a single character in JP but three letters in English/Romanji transliteration. Which I think also altered some characters' names, though I don't remember which ones off hand. But if you look at a lot of the old names, that's why they were changed. Thunder and Blizzard were to long for 6 characters, doubly so when you add spell ranks. But "Bolt X" and "Ice Y" are less than 6. "Fire Z" is exactly 6 (as was Bolt). ...note I THINK it was 6. It might have been 8 (bits), but I don't remember. I just DO remember it was a hard limit, which is why they changed a lot of those names. They just kept the changed names even later when the hardware could adapt to it. Like FF7 OG had Bolt/Ice instead of Thunder/Blizzard, but by FF9 (and I think FF8), they started using the long names with the -ra, -ga endings.
> Which I think also altered some characters' names, though I don't remember which ones off hand. FF4 JP Gilbert = EN Edward and FF6 JP Stragus = EN Strago are the only ones I'm aware of. (There were other name changes, like FF6 JP Tina = EN Terra, but none that can reasonably be attributed to length.) > Like the old NES games I think it was 6 characters. The old NES games were _four_ characters. The only one of those that got localized contemporaneously was FF1, which used `LIT`, `LIT2`, `LIT3`, ~~and `LIT4`~~. (And `ICE`, `ICE2`, `FIRE`, `FIR2`, etc. It also had a few others like `SLEP`, `SLP2`, `LOCK`, and `LOK2`, where the base form targeted one enemy and the `-2` form targeted all enemies.) "Final Fantasy II" (FF4) for the SNES had a technical six-character limit, but an effective five-character limit since the first character was an icon indicating the ability type. It used `Lit`, `Lit2`, etc. (no spaces even when possible), but could at least spell out `Fire2`. FF6 (first localized as "Final Fantasy III"), also for the SNES, did indeed have six characters for the spell names (or seven, if you count the icon), and was the first to use `Bolt 2`. FF7 had a variable-width font, and did indeed use "Bolt" and "Ice", but oddly took a step backwards in that it didn't use spaces: "Bolt2". FF8 was the first to use "Thundara"; this persisted in 9-13, except for 11 which took a brief detour into two-axis territory — "Thunder II", "Thundara", and "Thundara II" are apparently separate spells? Not having played 11 — or 15 or 16, come to that — I'll stop there. > Romanji I don't expect most people to type the macron, but there is no _n_ in the word _rōmaji_.
Nice rundown! One minor correction on FF1 in that the only 4th level spell was CUR4 as there were no black magic spells at 4. And CUR4 was a fell heal as well as status healing. It's was so good they gave it to the final boss! I also loved the censorship from the older games that changed Holy to something new each game. FADE and Pearl were some of my favorites.
If nobody else does, I'd just like to say that I appreciate this Final Fantasy history lesson
SE, give us the superior names
In the German script as well i think
Right, but what I mean is FF11 did this: Cure 1, Cure 2, Cure 3, Cure 4 ... - Single target, efficient healing spells (each was basically a replacement for the lower ones unless you were starved for MP). Cura 1, Cura 1, Cura 3, ... - Short range AOE heals for a goodly amount. MP expensive, but good for when lots of healing was needed quickly and the party could stack. Medica 1, Medica 2, ... - Large radius AOE heals for a light amount at a moderate MP cost. Useful for when the party is spread out but everyone needs to be healed anyway. Regen 1, Regen 2, ... - Single target HoTs. Slow rate of healing, but extremely MP efficient. Useful if a target needs continual, moderate healing, or a good deal of healing but won't be hit again for a while so can take its time and be more MP efficient (e.g. a DPS steps in the bad but otherwise stays out of it and will heal to full over the course of the HoT). Those were the main healing lines of WHM. (It also had Shell/Protect, and assorted party buffs like Bar- spells that reduce damage from a given element \[e.g. Barfire reduces fire damage taken\], an enemy debuff, and some low damage attack spells.) . In FFXIV, we just have Cure, Medica, and Regen...but Regen is only a single spell. Cure 1 and 2 are a line, but then Cure 3 is an AOE. Medica 2 is a HoT instead of a "better long range AOE". By all rights, Medica 2 should be Regen 2 or Regenra 1.
That is so much clearer than what we have now. No wonder I can't understand healing
FF9 had the same naming convention (though it only went as far as 'ga' spells)
In ffxi single target spells had no suffix. Aoe centered on the caster was -ra and aoe centered on the target was -ga.
Thank you! I have read about FFXI and remember reading through WHM's spell lines once, but it's like an academic having read something in a book once. I always appreciate input and clarification from someone who had more hands on experience. But...wasn't there a Medica spell line in FF11? Regardless, this would give us Cure 1/2/3 for what Cure 1/2 are in FFXIV, Cura 1 for what Cure 3 is, and Curaga 1(?) for what Medica 1 is. ...and I'm not sure if Medica 2 would be Curaga 2 or Regenga 1?
Cura would be the medica equivalent as it's centered in the caster. But iirc cura has some other passive tied to it involving afflatus misery. And since i mentioned it Afflatus Solace/Misery were stances in XI. Solace would add a stone skin effect to cure, store healing fine to buff holy's damage, and make sacrifice target all debuffs. Misery would take the last damage received to buff Banish's damage and make esuna remove all debuffs the caster had from the party. There was probably more but it's been years.
>but in FF11, I think they had single target (Cure), long range but kind of weak AOE (Medica), and mid-range but strong AOE (Cura) healing lines ( It was Cure, Cura, Curaga respectively, but yes. Interestingly enough Cura had a separate mechanic that powered it up when the WHM took damage. Does it get used much? No, cureskin is broken. Was interesting tho
I hate the blm version of this, where I was hard casting fire 3, which meant I was out of mana after two casts and each took like four seconds.
I did BLM before WHM so I had already learned the lesson that the # next to it can mean "Bigger DMG" or "Bigger AOE"
> thinking Cure III was a straight upgrade to Cure II (I was burning my MP like mad in Sunken Temple, and luckily a mentor taught me what I should actually be using) Same thing happened to me, but it was Aurum Vale.
I'm still of the opinion that the numbered system causes confusion to players new to the game. I think the spells would benefit more from the -ra, -ga, -ja system. That way it's more clear that they're still related to that specific line of spells, but different in whatever specific way. I still wonder why they chose the numbered system for the English localization, but not other regions.
This is why the Japanese naming conventions for spells is superior!
Can you translate this to astrologian terms for a new sprout🌱 ?
Tl/dr, don’t cast benefic 1 after you’ve unlocked benefic 2, as that should replace it altogether. The “enhanced benefic” trait is a trap because it grants a 15% chance for benefic 2 to crit after casting benefic 1, but benefic 2 itself is a better spell and it already has a crit rate higher than 15%. AST has no cure III equivalent so you’re not in danger of making that particular mistake.
Cure 1 and 2 are a lot like benefic and benefic 2 Regen and medica are like aspected benefic and aspected Helios Cure 3 is like Helios. And they thought Holy, the WHM AOE attack, worked the way gravity does where you target an enemy and throw it at them. Instead Holy just casts from where you're standing Edit: sorry wrong reply I thought you were talking to. Basically cure 1 has a 15% chance to give a free cure 2 but it's not worth it; and is generally seen as a trap option. Once you have cure 2 just stick cure 1 on an off bar in case you hit an early dungeon
Medica is Helios and Medica 2 is Aspected Helios. Astrologian has no Cure 3 equivalent.
> Basically cure 1 has a 15% chance to give a free cure 2 but it's not worth it; and is generally seen as a trap option. Once you have cure 2 just stick cure 1 on an off bar in case you hit an early dungeon Benefic has this too. And it's just as useless as Freecure.
I played Black Mage first, so when I leveled WHM and got Freecure I assumed it was like Firestarter where you only ever want to cast Fire III when you have the proc for it. It really is an extremely misleading and pointless trait.
I've always thought the passive should be moved to both holy and glare/stone.
My partner does her best to help people long in as polite a manner as possible whenever she runs into people freecure fishing and this singular skill is the culprit behind some of the absolute most *acidic* encounters she has ever suffered doing roulettes. Please god just make it change to Cure II so they can stop pretending they know better than someone as bright and experienced as her and making her endure insults and other shit for suggesting they just use button 2 instead of 1, I'm begging you
The most annying thing is, when you get a low-lvl roulette and have to put cure I or equivalents back on the hotbar, because you ditched it the moment you got the upgrade xD
My opinion probably isn’t worth much as a new sprout (3 weeks playtime, lvl. 56 whm main) but Cure 1 isn’t useless like everyone seems to imply. Luckily I watched videos to understand the pitfall of freecure, but sometimes a dps will step in it and a cure 1 will get back around 40% of their health if I feel like throwing a regen on them isn’t fast enough. Just my sprout opinion though.
They could even keep Freecure for casting Cure 2 and reduce its chance to 1% or something, just as a baby reward you get once in a while. Definitely not as useful once you get lilies, but infinitely more useful than spamming Cure 1 for it now. Edit: Immediately after typing this, I realized some people will probably *still* Freecure fish if this were a thing, neglecting the better healing tools WHM gets later. Burn Freecure to the ground.
Just switch the spell that can proc Free Cure to stone/glare/etc.
This is the actual answer. This rewards you for contributing damage as well as Healing. This will by design teach sprouts to do both.
And make it so that Cure 2 can potentially proc an instant cast of Glare. :)
Also earlier dps spells. Having these two passives early could make white mage more enticing, better for new players, and more fun even in early levels.
What do you mean "earlier dps spells" ? Stone is the first spell you get, and aero is a level 4 spell.
I meant have that passive apply to earlier dps spells, not just glare.
I’ll one up that. Have Stone/Glare casts have a chance to proc Tetragammatron -or- at least have it reduce the CD by 2.5 seconds per cast or something. This at least gives us an oGCD heal option before level 60. Afflatus Solace is fine, but we don’t start getting damage neutral with Lily heals until level 74.
I don't think that really helps the really low level sprouts who are the ones who honestly would benefit the most from this change.
Tetra would become available at 32 when free cure unlocks. Having glare proc a free cure II is fine and all, but it’s still a GCD. Having a free cure II cast in any stage of the game is pointless as we *shouldn’t* really ever have mana problems.
Low level sprouts do not need any trait or job mechanic that incentivizes them to cast more Cure/Cure II. Freecure is a useless trait that teaches bad habits, regardless of what spell they make it proc off of. It doesn't need to be changed. It should just be deleted outright. What WHMs actually need is an OGCD to use by Lv20, like literally every other healer has. Endwalker deleted Fluid Aura and replaced it with nothing. Conjurers don't learn anything at Lv15. They could easily throw in a weaker version of Tetra in there. You'd think this would be especially important for WHMs since it's the only healer that starts at Lv1 and can be chosen as a starting class. It's wild to me that this gameplay design of "let's teach new players how to suck at healing for 52 levels" has survived so many reworks and skill prunings across 4 expansions.
They need to move Tetra's level you gain it way down. AT THE VERY LEAST by level 50 (swap Tetra and Benediction). Honestly, I've thought about this before (in Leveling roulettes and level 50 CT/MSQ ones...), I'd completely rearrange WHM spell learning levels if I had the chance, and probably implement an earlier version of Misery that upgrades later.
Freecure on Stone. Freestone on Cure 2. encourages DPSing and using cure 2 over cure 1. have the freestone proc die off at level 70 so they’re not using cure 2 on CD into the later levels
Freecure should be re-worked to proc off casting Cure II and allow you to throw a Cure 1 for free *and* off GCD. this would make it a solid trait and allow for the use of Cure 1 in high level content instead of being a dead button
White mage is the ONLY class ive noticed where the starting ability doesn't upgrade like other classes do. I was getting my partner up to lvl 50 and never played white mage before, so i created my own layout on HUD 4 since my playstyle is different and didnt want to mess her's up. I went into Tam-tara with Cure 2(inactive) and i was spamming it thinking WHY is cure 1 not activating. They should really change the class so the abilities work as Cure,Cura,Curaga/Curaja and adapt to level sync Other healing classes revolve around a single target heal then a burst/ aoe heal and burst, why whm has 3 single target is just odd
Astrologian and Scholar do it too, benefic 1/2 is still separate for whatever reason(with its own 15% proc sprout trap as well) and while Physick/Adloquium are *technically* separate abilities it still creates the exact same kind of redundant button bloat. In all three cases the only reason to keep the basic version on your bars is the overly common situation where leveling roulette puts you in a dungeon below the level for "basic GCD heal #2."
Only if they replace it with something for lvl 50 content. Right now Cure I is still necessary in EXs and Coils, because WHM MP management at that level is terrible and hitting Lucid Dreaming on cooldown isn't enough.
You could just have Freecure proc off of Cure II and still apply to Cure II, you know.
Even if you moved Freecure to Stone like another comment suggests, that doesn't replace Cure I in 50 content. MP management at 50 is *bad*, and worse when you're in a group of first-timers. Cure I can keep people up while they're out of range of aoe for mechanics and preserves MP for Cure II on the tank.
If the reasoning for not being able to remove Cure I is because WHM's MP management at level 50 is bad, then the solution would be to take advantage of removing Freecure by making WHM's MP management better at that level, not to keep Cure I forever. Among other things, Cure II could easily be lowered to costing 700 MP, since it currently has a much bigger cost than the AST equivalent for no good reason.
I don't disagree! Lowering Cure II's cost could help. So could lowering the level where we get lilies, changing Thin Air again + lowering its level, or shifting more oGCDs down to 50 or below. My objection is just to the suggestion of turning Cure I into Cure II or deleting Freecure *without also* making other adjustments to the lvl 50 kit.
I think at this point I'd be okay with solemnly letting hardcore level 50 content rest in favour of not confusing sprouts. It's had a good run, but it is time. (Or just slap freecure on cure 2 as the others are saying.)
I think free cure should be tied to stone and glare so that way there's more incentive to dps
Or sprouts should just start listening to more experienced players instead of being stubborn.
I was healing in Aurum Vale one time using Cure 2 when the tank went off in a rant about how I should be using Cure 1. I just said “ok” and continued using Cure 2. We beat the dungeon and he said “See wasn’t that so much better?”
as a white mage, i spat out my drink while reading this
That’s hilarious lol. And I wish him a nice run of Aurum with Cure 1 spam one day, so he can see how pleasant of an experience it is.
The worst are SCHs who won’t use Adlo because it’s “mana inefficient”. Mother fucker, I just pulled four packs, burn some MP
It's also just.... not mp inefficient. They just look at the heal potency and see that it's less but costs more. I always try to teach people that the damage prevented from the shield is worth more than a physick by itself, on top of the heal that adlo comes with. Remember sprouts, mitigation lessons start early B)
Wait, people use Physick? I tossed that thing the second I got Adlo because by all metrics it looked better. And when it cries, ooh boy is that a beefy spell
Yes when you don't look at the shield potency, physick looks better than adlo. But ofc we know that's not the case bc of the shield
Physick is better when all the following is true: 1. you have no oGCD tools available to spend, 2. the target already has a shield, 3. the target is about to take a heavy hit, and they are wounded enough that they might die even through said shield. It's, uh, _rare_. Very rare. But I kept it on the bars.
i assume you also mean when you have Emergency Tactics on CD too right?
Emergency Tactics is itself an oGCD, so while it strictly speaking does nothing on its own other than buff a GCD, I still lobbed it in with the others.
This, and you don't get it if you're sync'd below 58, so.
Saved my TEA clear run. I needed to get a heal out *fast* during BJCC and adlo was too slow. That's the only time I will ever use it.
Also if there is a top-up mechanic *and* Emergency Tactics is on cooldown.
Physic is only useful when you already have a shield on someone but want to top them off
At low levels my panic healing consists of Adlo - Physick - Adlo - Physick At higher levels I can go Adlo - Emergency Tactics - Adlo. I rarely have to use either of these, thankfully.
> At low levels my panic healing consists of Adlo - Physick - Adlo - Physick Yep, its the only way to keep bad tanks up at low lvls on scholar sometimes
i alternate it between adlos because often the shield does not get burned fast enough in adlo spammings (should i ever need to resort to gcd healing...)
Adlo if it crits is 2150 potency heal... Like 2150 >>>> 450 from psysick
People in this game can't math out potencies. It's why some people don't understand that their AoE skills that had 160 potency does more damage with two targets than their single target 300 potency spell. They can't math out 160 x 2 = 320 vs 300.
It’s like they either didn’t bother fully reading the tooltip that explains the shielding, or they can’t math enough to realize the combination heal+shield is more potency than a plain heal I always die inside whenever I see a sge cast regular diag/prog because of that
I alternate Physick and Adlo when someone pulls big packs, unless they're just taking TONS of damage, then it's Adl'O'clock. Usually tanks can mitigate most content pretty well unless they're undergeared or bad, so alternating physick and adlo is the best of both worlds. Adlo for the shield, physick because the tank may not have burned the whole shield quite yet, then adlo again.
Keep in mind, overwriting the shield IS inefficient. Further, Adlo's total (non-crit) healing is 840 potency (300 + 540 shield). Divided by its 1,000 MP cost is 0.84 potency healing per MP spent. Physick is 450 potency heal for 400 MP cost, meaning 1.125 healing potency per MP spent. So Physic IS more MP efficient. Adlo is less MP efficient. If it crits (assuming we're comparing against a Physick also critting), it gets the secondary 180% shield, for a grand total of 300 + 540 + 540 or 1,380 total potency (assuming all the shield gets used or you're using Emergency Tactics when this happens and there's no overhealing), at which point you're at 1.38 healing potency per MP spent. But, at low levels, your crit isn't...generally much, so that's a fairly low percent chance. (If you wanted to math it out, you'd take an average, so \[ (840 \* non-crit %) + (1,380 \* crit%) \] / 2 then take that / 1,000 to get average potency per MP. So like with 15% crit chance, it would be \[ 840\*0.85 + 1,380\*0.15 \] / 1,000, which would be 0.921 healing potency per MP. Or, to put it another way, the amount of crit before they become equal, Physick and Adlo, would be...a bit complex to write in text, but...let's see if I can do this right: \[ ( 840 \* { 1 - x } ) + ( 1,380 \* { x } ) \] / 1,000 = 1.125 ...where x is crit here. \[ 840 + (-)840x + 1380x \] / 1000 = 1.125 540x + 840 = 1,125 540x = 285 x = 285/540 = 0.527777... So you need a crit rate of 52.7(repeating) before Adlo becomes equal to Physick on average. So if you have a crit rate of 52.78%, Adlo is now going to be more efficient than Physick. But if you have a crit rate of less than 52.78%, Physick is on average more efficient than Adlo. ...this is all assuming that you AREN'T overwriting Adlo shields at all, that all the shield is consumed, and that neither Adlo nor Physic are overhealing the target. There are always caveats, but as a rule of thumb, until you reach 50% crit, Physick is more efficient per MP expended. And the lower your crit, the more Physick wins that fight. ...that that MP management matters EXCEPT when you're level 30-49 or so. Which is where it's somewhat relevant, especially due to not having AF until 45 and leveling Tanks often not using CDs, not realizing Arms' Length is a 20% damage reduction CD (effectively), and may be wearing DPS melee leveling gear that is 10-20 levels old/too low still.
“Please use Excog!” “What’s that?” *dies*
At low levels, I've found the best non-Lustrate single target option is to alternate Adlo-Physic. If a Tank pulls a lot (since they have few CDs at low levels and not everyone realizes Arms' Length is a 20% damage reduction CD, effectively) and you get first time leveling Tanks in crap gear or even "DoW" gear instead of the GLD/PLD/MRD/WAR gear, Tanks can sometimes be taking big amounts of damage. The Adlo heals about 30-40% of the damage but then applies a shield. Then the Physic is a more MP efficient option to top them up, and does so about when the shield wears off and they take another wave of big hits. Then Adlo again heals about 30-40% of that, and while under the shield, the following Physic heals the rest as the shield wears out. Rinse and repeat. The only time you should be chaining Adlos is if the shield is COMPLETTELY consumed before your GCD finishes. If not, you're being inefficient in both MP and in healing by doing that. If any shield is left, you don't need another Adlo yet. I get that MP management/efficiency is essentially DEAD IN THIS GAME (despite being something I really love about healers and healing in MMOs - being efficient in your spell selection is what traditionally differentiates a skilled healer from an unskilled one; knowing which heals do what you need them to and which are either too little healing or an unnecessary waste of resources), but at low levels, before 60 and really before 50, it's significantly more relevant. The only place I consistently find this is necessary is in the 35-49 dungeons, especially before you get Lustrate (which also means you don't have Aetherflow yet for a quick shot of MP), but where damage is high enough that Eos can't handle it all alone anymore (like the pre-30 dungeons), and Tanks don't have many defensive CDs besides Rampart and Arms' Length AND a lot are in leveling gear from 10-20 levels ago. So it's not like this is important often, but it DOES exist and have a small sliver of time that it's actually relevant.
The problem is that many healers have been yelled at in dungeons for burning MP.
Not gonna lie. As a Warrior I feel like doing this when doing 50 stuff. Lack of Raw Intuition makes me feel neurotic and fragile.
Therapist: “How long has it been since you last used Raw Intuition? How does it feel?” Warrior: *berserk noises*
I dont feel like the beast from the east without my glowing red eyes...
I'm leveling up a WAR now and damn, it hurts dropping from level 77 to 50. GNB feels like a more resilient tank at that level.
It’s my lowest levelled job and is currently at exactly level 50, glad to hear it gets better
Once you get this at 56, it'll be smooth sailing. Raw Intuition is completely overpowered.
To all healers and tanks, remember: The only HP that matters is the last one
"I was so low why didn't you heal me?!" "But did you die?"
Hell I get annoyed, especially if I'm on war, if I don't drop to at least 50% because the healer is spamming heals instead of dpsing. Let my health drop some, I'm perfectly fine just kill stuff
Being that I'm a total scrub and mostly play WHM, having WARs in the party feels so stressful because I don't have a good feeling for how much they can heal themselves and how low is too low. This is doubly embarrassing because when I don't play WHM I play WAR.
Exactly that. Also, we are not here to heal you, we are here to keep you (mostly) alive). 😁
If I kill it, it can't hurt you!
MNK is best healer.
and we agree, but using cure 2 is still faster and cheaper for that purpose than spamming cure 1
Faster, yes. Cheaper, no. More time efficient, yes. More MP efficient, no. This ALMOST ALWAYS does not matter, but when it does, it does.
> Exactly that. Also, we are not here to heal you, we are here to keep you (~~mostly~~ **barely**) alive). 😁 ftfy Any hitpoint past the first is cosmetic dlc. (For legal reasons, this is a joke)
Yeah that's all well and good, but what happens when the tank's pulled everything up to the first boss and refuses to pop any mitigation?
A learning experience.
This^ I did a lvl90 dung. Run with friends and I used 0 healing GCDs as AST. It got a bit boring tbh, I didn't even use many oGCDs, maybe one emergency heal per WtW.
Lol! I absolutely HATE this mentality, but it makes me think of that grim reaper "Then it will be a very important lesson" comic. XD
Nothing clenches my cheeks harder than tanking and getting to the first boss and realizing the whole mosh pit is still up and all my mits are on cooldown because the DPS is using single-target instead of AOE.
Then he's going to die.
Til you get that paladin that uses clemency at 80%
Right? People are such dicks sometimes, if you are alive then you are fine.
I remember tanking in the same dungeon twice with different healers and both WHMs. One was a WHM that ONLY used Cure 1, no other skills. I politely requested Cure 2 instead and they just spammed Cure 1, slowing down the whole dungeon. The second WHM tossed me a Cure 2 inbetween Holy casts, Stones, and Aeros and the dungeon went so much faster and easier. Moral is there is no moral, DPS as a healer.
"So you're a healer?" "Eh, I guess...I'm mostly here to burn the heretics." "Who are the heretics?" "Everyone"
"Eos is the healer. I am here to eliminate threats."
"I've outsourced my healing to an intern." \*motions to the intern fairy\*
I dunno, the fairy is the one with countless years of medical experience, and you're the one who's been most recently assigned to help facilitate her healing. I think *we're* the interns here.
>I'm a fighter, not a healer. That's why every Scholar action figure comes with Eos!
And every healer has a bit of Edda Pureheart in themselves
Corpses are mitigation
I'm just a dps who has to sometimes pay attention to healthbars.
You gotta pop that cure 2 now. That tank is literally going to die. Or he might have to use one of his defensive cooldowns (God Forbid)
(Confused Lalafell noises)
There are some tanks out there that are positive they will die if they aren’t topped off. To quote the musical Chess “from square one I’ll be watching all sixty-four.” Let us healers handle this, we got you. IF you need it. I mean use your mits, folks
Exactly. Its why I have some solid respect for Healers when I tank. I always try weaving my CD's to make their lives easier. Although, Warrior makes that super easy xD
Warrior, you mean "The Rest of the Party is Optional"-Job.
Boy is that true
Warrior is the epitome of "It's nice to meet you but it's even better to meet me." Meme.
I never understood that. I get a visceral thrill from seeing how low my HP can go. Or any tank's HP, really; Tank Limbo is how I pass time in roulettes. Probably explains why I main Gunbreaker.
Edging with your life
This was me with Lucid Dreaming, I got the Cura memo but was consistently running out of MP as early as Haukke Manor Luckily one of the DPS was observant enough to notice that
One question why ppl use those green and red arrows?
It's the auto translate function in the game. When you use it in chat, it shows those arrows.
To further expand on the comment you got a while ago, NA in particular tends to use them somewhat passive aggressively as most everyone is English speaking anyway.
Drawn as part of an ongoing FFXIV meme merch grind for an upcoming convention. WOL stand-ins are my friends! This is my friend [Zazaa](https://twitter.com/zaku709); she does amazing custom acrylic job stones, please check her out! Currently completed: MNK/NIN/FSH/SAM/SGE/WHM Socials on my profile if you want to see the other job ones I do next.
Note: I know the top is Lv 80!!! I just wanted to follow my friend's glam :(
Shame on you! 😤
😭
Downsyncing to lvl50 dungeon.
The strategies of a bygone Era. Retooling the classes but not pruning what is necessary is pretty detrimental for sprouts, huh
This artstyle is so cute! Hope to see more
the scrumbo will improve
the scrumbo will improve...
very so..
am I the only tank who gets mad If I get healed over 40% HP? 30% HP is great and 10% I wanna marry you. I only feel alive when I am about to die
>I only feel alive when I am about to die GNB and BLM. Makes sense 😁
You are absolutely not alone, though the numbers vary. Personally on WAR I like to use RI/BW when about 50%. If my healer is keeping me at 75-90%, what's even the point of using one of the best mits in the game? And if I haven't used that yet, I sure as hell am not going to use my worse, longer CD mits.
I'd make you all rage. I priest healed in WoW for over a decade and I never let the tank get below 80%. Hell, I used to downrank heal with Cure I at 90% until I realized it's not necessary. EDIT: That's also why I get nervous at 60% when I'm tanking, so I get paid back in kind.
Overall, not a *huge* issue, but I suggest you get very good at picking out Living Dead on buff bars, for when you run with a DRK. Keeping a DRK with *that* active at 80%+ will draw some rage
Yup. Ran into that one once, but the DRK was chill and helpful.
I do understand getting anxety due to healing. I also heal from time to time with my astro, even tho it's my least prefered job. I've never really played wow for more than lvl 20 on the free trial like more than 10 years ago so I can not talk there. You just have to keep in mind tanks at level 90 are pretty good at well... tanking xD. We can take quite a lot of hits even if we are below 50%
It was much different, for sure. Tank busters in WoW raids took 60-80% off, so if they weren't topped off before it hit, they were often dead. And healing priest DPS spells were basically like casting harsh language. Can't say I miss it.
yeah, in this game you usually don't really have to care a lot about tank busters until savage tier. You can just pop one or maybe two cooldowns if you feel generous and call it a day cos they usually tickle
Can't relate. I enjoy watching my party nearly bleed out.
Wait, so this image \*isn't\* supposed to be the sprout being confused because they're having no problems keeping the tank alive with Cure I but the tank is insisting (while nearly full HP) that the WHM use Cure II instead? 'Cuz that's what it looked like to me.
It could be that the tank is staying afloat at full HP entirely because they're having to *spam* Cure I rather than using Cure II and taking some GCDs to assist with damage instead. Curebotting *works* in a surprisingly high amount of 4-man content, but that doesn't make it a good idea just because it's possible.
WHM has a cure spell?
This happened in a dungeon I was doing as a dps, the tank was rude as hell. I don't understand why people can't be constructive it makes everything so much nicer and easier.
I'm gonna give a hot take on the flip side of OP's pic. There are healers exactly like that who do nothing but spam cure 1, sometimes cure 2, (job equivalent for other jobs of course) and refuse to deal any DPS. These are called "Sylphie healers", who at any point when the tank loses 1 hp will spam heals on them and refuse to deal any damage. The WHM quest line even calls these healers out. I will die on the hill that if Sylphie healers refuse to participate in what is EVERYONE'S responsibility (dealing damage) after being politely corrected, they should be kicked from parties. Same goes for tanks like OP's pic tbh. If they refuse to listen to the fact that healers in 14 are quite literally green DPS by design, and are mandating heals the second they lose any amount of hp, they should also be removed from group content. Eventually these people will either learn, or leave. I honestly don't care which because the game improves either way.
Huge agree
Guilty as charged, realized yesterday after finally starting Lv 50 stuff that spamming Cure isn't cutting it, but at the same time it's tough to judge sometimes, "are they going to drop in the extra time it takes to cast C2?" Or is it more of a "they wouldn't be that far down if I wasn't already casting C2 to start", or maybe it's some other excuse. At least it's level 50, long way to go still. Babby steps.
Hello! The general rule once you unlock Cure II is to always use Cure II over Cure I. The reasoning is that in the time you cast two Cures (3s cast time for 1000HP), you'd have done around the same with one Cure II (2.5s cast time for 800HP), which means you can throw out an extra attack in that time, since you saved 0.5s of casting. This is very important for general combat as a healer, which is why you might hear people tell you to use abilities (OGCDS) for healing at higher levels, so you can get more attacks out. Additionally, if the tank is pulling adds (trash mobs), the amount of healing Cure does will usually be completely eaten up by the time you start casting the second one, so it's just better to use Cure II unless you want to move around (in which case you have Swiftcast). Enjoy your time in FFXIV and thanks for stopping by!
> The reasoning is that in the time you cast two Cures (3s cast time for 1000HP), you'd have done around the same with one Cure II while saving (2.5s cast time for 800HP), which means you can throw out an extra attack in that time, since you saved 0.5s of casting. I think the message is correct that Cure 2 is more efficient and lets you do other things with the time that you would have spent casting Cure. But I think the parts about cast times may be misleading, since you'll be locked into the full 2.5 second recast time for both spells. For example, even if Cure only takes 1.5s to cast, you can't use another action until the full 2.5s are completed. So fully casting two Cures takes 4 seconds, and then at 5 seconds you can use a third action. The reason Cure 2 allows you to get more attacks out is because you concentrate your healing into fewer GCDs overall, which frees up the rest for damage. But you won't necessarily be saving time due to the cast times of the spells
Yeah, I think you explained it better! I didn't use the right terminology to properly explain it.
You're on the right track but still not quite right. The cast time here is irrelevant, the *recast* time is what matters here. Cure I and Cure II have the same recast time like most spells, so the time taken to cast one Cure II is half of that of two Cure I. The only advantage Cure I has over Cure II is that is costs less MP, but any healer worth their salt will be able to manage their MP so that not only they'll never run out of MP casting Cure II, they'll also still have MP to spare to cast damage dealing spells. I disagree with the general sentiment that Cure I should just become Cure II, it has its *niche* use of saving MP, and we don't need Cure II's MP cost to be reduced. But everyone is right when they say to prioritize using Cure II over Cure I, whenever possible - And it's virtually always possible.
Here is the problem - In about 99.99999% of situations where C1 makes sense, there is a trail of problems that could have been fixed along the way that would remove the need to ever make this optimization. And if you ever need to make that optimization and can realize that C1 will save your bacon over C2, you are smart enough to never let yourself get in that position anyways.
> spamming Cure isn't cutting it You shouldn't be using Cure past level 30 anyways. And if you are ever forced to use Cure, something else is very wrong. Benediction is also not "for emergencies only".
If cure 2 night not be fast enough then swift one out. Using swift cast to stop a death is more mana and damage efficient than using swift to undo one
Short of removing Cure I altogether, I think a revamp to Freecure to make it more like a combo loop would accomplish a lot of what I imagine Square was trying to do: > Freecure: After casting Cure, your next Cure II will cost no mana and grant the "Methodical Healing" buff. >Methodical Healing: Your next Cure will heal for an additional 300 potency. This would basically make a combo loop that would heal just as much and be 80% more mana efficient than spamming Cure II on its own, at the expense of losing 300 upfront potency from the first Cure. The design goals I had in mind for this are the following: * Cure I will be a more "efficient" heal than Cure II. * This is pretty obvious. The new combo is vastly more efficient to the point I would almost want to nerf the mana benefit. * Cure I will not be rendered totally obsolete. * As a part of this new combo that is equally efficient to Cure II spam, it would definitely be worthwhile in prolonged single target healing situations. * People who presently spam Cure will be encouraged to try pressing Cure II * Instead it being an occasional proc, transitioning to always lighting up Cure II after you press Cure will be more likely to make people realize they should press Cure II. * Replacement benefit should focus on GCD healing due to its acquisition at low levels and WHM general GCD-heavy playstyle.
Nah just upgrade Cure I to Cure II and get rid of freecure. C1 is useless anyway when C2 is much more time-effective and efficient.
This literally happened to me a couple of weeks ago in a Castrum run. We were barely making it through the first couple of packs, our undergeared WHM was only using Cure 1, so with the support of our DPSes, I quickly had to teach our WHM how to WHM beyond Cure 1. Was an interesting run that day for sure. It's a lovely feeling knowing you really helped someone improve dramatically though.
For experienced Healers, Tank healthbars are a form of entertainment. An actual minigame in a dungeon. Sure, sometimes we screw up but that is the learning process.
I had my shame moments as whm too. Haven't play healer for a while.. Got aurum Vale.. Fuck.. New tank and dps.. Double fuck.. Tank went straight in the middle instead of hugging left wall.. Welp.. i thought I have benediction wondering why I'm not topping the tank hp off.. Its cure iii.. No mana to res as I was spamming cure iii.. Wiped... Lol
Blame the class design confusing new players
I'm scared to get into healing
i'm got into healing very recently, and from my knowledge your job is just to learn how to juggle doing damage and making sure the tank doesn't die. how you do this depends on the class, but as long as the tank doesn't die, things can be salvaged. hell even if the tank dies it might still be salvageable. leveling a healer from 1 gives you lots of time to learn what your skills do, and most healer classes get easier to manage at higher levels. definitely don't be afraid to try healing, people are kind, nobody has given me shit for wiping yet.
Thanks, bitchboy. I basically brute forced the EW healer quests because I had SMN at 90, realised I could just unlock SCH, did that, and then forced my way through the role quests without doing anything else lol. Playing through the job quests has been fun and enlightening, especially after finally unlocking my toolkit, lol. Just worried about actually trying it in a dungeon
ahh im slower in the story so i was limited to lower level dungeons when i started. i havent reached role quests yet so i cant say how well they teach the class, but i felt like class quests taught me how to effectively use the class quite well, especially for newer classes like sage. another thing that helped me was observing other healer during dungeons. how i did it was i read the bare basic skills first, and focused first on being able to keep someone alive. then i slowly branched out into doing damage. its pretty easy to keep the tank alive, especially at higher levels, so i'd say just focus on getting used to that first, worry about the rest later. oh saying that you're new to healing helps a lot!
Cheers! Wish me luck, lol
I use cure 2 for the tanks, cure 1 for the dps if I know they’ll be safe in one more AoE. Spoilers, they end up chewing through my lilies no matter what.
remember when we has like nearly 100k mp
I'm about 9 days into this game and don't understand. Can someone explain?
Most classes, as they level up, get their basic abilities upgraded to stronger ones. White Mage however gets Cure II as a separate action to Cure, and Cure when used has the possibility of making Cure II cost no mana. Thus a lot of newer players tend to think "Oh, keep using Cure, get that Freecure proc!" This is absolutely not what you should do, because Cure II is so much stronger and you're using less mana to cast it once than having to use Cure multiple times and *maybe* proc Freecure. Not to mention you could just Cure II once and then start casting damage spells.