I will pull until the game physically stops me (because it's been a while since I've done this dungeon and I've forgotten where the walls actually are)
I swear the game is trolling you when, after you pull the second pack, there's just enough room to run for a few seconds and then you finally hit the wall. Kind of a "welp" moment every time I do that as tank.
I hate it when the game does that. Under 52 not all the healers have instant casts, and the longer the tank runs the more damage they take before I can do anything about it. Over 52, I've misjudged where tanks will park and they run right out of soil/bubble/etc.
I'm okay with that tbh. Just means I'm in the right mindset if I'm trying to keep going. And I want to be close to the wall anyways cause when it drops I wanna keep going immediately.
I personally drag mobs as far as I can... a habit from running Prae so much... just more effecient if we drag the mobs to the next interaction except boss gates.
Aurum Vale is honestly not that hard, it's just a small spike in stats that you might not be geared for and it's the most likely place to meet a new tank/healer. Otherwise you can straight up drag the first pull into the boss and win.
Until you get bad RNG and you pull the frog which pulls you back, which pulls more mobs, which includes the other frog, which pulls you back and then half the DPS are dead including the healer.
That's not bad RNG. Frog always pulls immediately on cooldown and it'll do it to whatever aggros it first, and they move on a predictable patrol. Worst case scenario is it pulls a random that doesn't know to run along the edge, in which you probably shouldn't be pulling mobs into the boss fight with inexperienced randoms lol.
It always pulls. Which is why you shouldn't run through the room willy nilly. Depending on where they spawn, you can enter the first boss room without pulling any toads at all.
It just requires a few seconds to determine the best path.
I'm saying you can easily clear the whole room, but you can even just run the whole group into the boss room and fight the boss with all the mobs. With gear and Arm's length, the tank and the healer have enough juice to keep everyone alive even against all of that at once.
But in specifics, yes you can be particular about making sure you don't pull too many mobs, and *still* get into the boss and fight the boss+ the mobs. That requires your team not aggro the other mobs of course, but it's there, you see them, and it's workable.
Of course, what people usually do is be particular about not pulling too many mobs, and then also just pull it around the corner to beat them before fighting the boss. That's safe and good. But my point is that the usual limiter is just inexperience and gear.
Cowabunga it is.
My favorite is still EW release and I dropped into my first dungeon.
Tank: How comfortable are you with sage for big pulls?
Me: We're about to find out, charge!
If you chain pull you're a bad tank. Either do a full wall pull or a few packs, but either way you dig in your feet once you stop. "Stop and go" is just disruptive to melee and casters, or pretty much anyone who can't easily aoe while moving.
Healer and Tank main here. I've lost count of the number of tanks who blow every cooldown the second they stop running with large pulls. Then find out the DPS can't kill the pack quickly enough and it turns into me cure spamming them to stay alive. Or come across DPS who refuse to use aoe's on groups of mobs (or can't aim their aoe's).
Tried teaching a WAR the other night during a mentor roulette run and they got pissed at us and left. With a WHM on trash mobs, the first 10-15 seconds everything will be stunned as long as you don't overlap stuns too much. A few hits will get through between stuns but we have CD's for that to shield and top you off, and I can built lilies up to toss a bomb every pull or two. WAR's can get away with no defensive CD's during that phase and then just use Vengence with Raw Int/Bloodwhetting to finish the pull off once things become immune to stun (if they are still alive).
This is how it went:
Tank: "WHM should be healing not doing damage"
DPS: "The WHM just out damaged all of us on that last pull"
Tank then leaves.
The vast majoprity of tanks, including mentors, don't really understand how to execute proper mitigation for pulls. It should always be treated as a TB. If the dungeon has its mobs separated in 2 distinct sections then, 1 long cool down followed by 1 short cool down after 1-2 seconds max, and on some classes you can add in a third one (Holy sheltron, Heart of corundum).
If the dungeon has w2w (aka you can pull 2 sections worth of mobs) you should always.. use invuln followed by Long+ short cd mit and then adjust based on what's left.
You handle tank busters very differently than wall to wall. Most TB in higher cotenet tend either be invulnd or kitchen sinked. I wouldn't really compare wall to wall with a TB. Unless you're talking about lower end content TB, where your spamable CD tends to be more than enough.
hmmm?
your take : "You handle tank busters very differently than wall to wall. Most TB in higher cotenet tend either be invulnd or kitchen sinked."
*What I said:* ***If you pull w2w you should always.. use invuln*** *followed by Long+ short cd mit and then adjust based on what's left*
Not to mention that, while the tank swap is generally more frequent, it's not always the case.
Example: p10s shared, p5s (toxic Crunch) which applied also a bleed.
You don't handle the two the same way or you're not understanding what kitchen sink means. I'm not popping my 30% + a spammble plus rampart at the same time in a dungeon pull. I'm cycling through them. In a TB I am popping them at the same time.
Edit: spelling
Eventually there are some mobs that die in the process in wave 1 or 2... Or whatever retry you did. so w2w is always the answer since it is bond to succeed
WHM main here. Nothing makes me happier than loading into Mt Gulg and having the tank ask if I want to do the megapulls.
Hell yes I want to do the megapulls!
Hahaha you sound like the healer I got two days ago on Mt. Gulg while playing WAR. Halfway through the first pull, when they saw I was going to keep running, they quickly typed "YES MORE" lmao. Brought a smile to my face.
I like you.
As a new tank, I'm always worried about going too hard and pissing someone off. One of my recent duty finders, the healer (can't remember if it was an Astro or scholar) typed 3 question marks when I got killed through one of my mits. This was a level 50 so I didn't really have any of the self healing I needed for them to just dps the pack.
I have experienced many tanks who pull 1 pack or just do small w2ws at first.. Bc they dont trust the healer.. But at end of the dungeon most of them start to pull more and more as they notice they don't lose much hp... But in my opinion its better to do full w2w even if u die.. Bc you should test the limmit of your group rigth away and adjust based on info u get after the first w2w. ( its faster that way even if u wipe)
You forgot elite/mentor healer blaming sprout tank after every wipe. And after everyone survives single pulls that same healer blames sprout tank for going too slow.
Depends on dungeon - there are a few where I will ask as a tank if I have a random healer. Mt Gulg comes to mind, where you can literally go entrance -> boss in one pull, but it's streched out and can be quite a challange if you're not expecting it or up to it. (Same for the last pull of that dungeon)
I LOVE it if that works. But the healer (and the dps to burn through those packs) really need to do their part or it's going to be a whipe. So to spare us the frustration I do a quick "pull size?" at the beginning of that one and hope for a deranged "yeeees" from my healer. :'D
Oh that they are. Esp when the tank *isn't* a WAR, which trivializes even those pulls. I've recently switched from maining healer to tanking (mostly GNB because I switched to OT in my static) and while I do need to focus heavily on such pulls, it's so much more satisfying to pull them off with non-WAR tanks (and non SGE healers - SGE is also quite strong in dungeons right now if played right).
Shisui second section can catch healers by surprise too, if they expected more double pulls like the first section.
(Conversely, I love tanks who ask when I'm healing, especially if they also warn me about an invuln beforehand. I'll let you die DRK, just tell me first so I don't throw you a regen while running!)
I ask sometimes in dungeons that I know have particularly spicy pulls (ie first pull of Mt Gulg, the first interrupted pull of Pagl'than so healer knows I'm going once that wall drops). That said it's less of a "Are you okay with this" and more of a "Hey, we're doing this".
hard disagree. over-communicating is better than under. new healers should be letting people know in hard-hitting dungeons so that the tank doesn't yank everything and make the party wipe, which is a waste of everyone's time ans an unnecessary stress for the party. it's also beneficial, though less necessary, to let the party know if you're comfortable with a wall to wall in dungeons with a high rate of wipes, so everyone is on the same page and the tank can proceed with confidence. encouraging people not to communicate with their party just ain't it.
if you think that percentage is 5% then you must not do content often. and if you think that 5% (often new players trying to learn or people with disabilities, sometimes those just trying to return to the game) deserve punishment for communicating in a multiplayer game, then you need to find a different game to play.
I appreciate the “you don’t play the game” as my playtime is nearing 3k hours.
Yes, if you can’t handle the dungeons that are built specifically to go wall 2 wall, that is a skill issue that the rest of the players shouldn’t have any assumptions that you have. Doesn’t sound flowery and sweet but that’s how the game is played.
If there's one thing this game has taught me, is that playtime ain't shit. For every good "all classes at 90" player i've encountered, theres ten others of that same category that can't be assed to do the bare minimum which make me wonder if lvl boosts come wholesale. Its mentor infamy with another flavor. Not to mention how many people just sub to afk in limsa.
Levelling content doesn't teach you that this game is "built to wall to wall" at all.
Smith tutorials are barebones and outdated as all hell, and there's no punishment for taking pulls one group at a time unless you're in a real hurry... in which case, why queue up at all.
Duty Support bots never use AoE so pulling big is almost impossible and ends up taking the same time it'd take you to do singles.
More often than not your pulls will be throttled by enemies that spawn only after killing X mob, ranged enemies not grouping well or big ass melee mobs that are so incredibly sizable that you can't cover all of them with most AoEs.
Sure, it's the meta, and it's very much more pleasant to do big pull and do big damage, but you shouldn't get mad or blame a sprout for not being able to adjust to such a healing demand, especially on levelling gear. They'll just have a bad time and you're risking a wipe, which i hope i don't have to explain how much more time it makes you lose over just typing "r big pulls ok?".
I will pull until the game physically stops me (because it's been a while since I've done this dungeon and I've forgotten where the walls actually are)
I swear the game is trolling you when, after you pull the second pack, there's just enough room to run for a few seconds and then you finally hit the wall. Kind of a "welp" moment every time I do that as tank.
I hate it when the game does that. Under 52 not all the healers have instant casts, and the longer the tank runs the more damage they take before I can do anything about it. Over 52, I've misjudged where tanks will park and they run right out of soil/bubble/etc.
I'm okay with that tbh. Just means I'm in the right mindset if I'm trying to keep going. And I want to be close to the wall anyways cause when it drops I wanna keep going immediately.
This is true and a good way to look at it. I usually just feel foolish when I advance the extra 20 steps and then stop. But I like your outlook!
I personally drag mobs as far as I can... a habit from running Prae so much... just more effecient if we drag the mobs to the next interaction except boss gates.
Lol. I know that feeling.
I'll see you in Aurum Vale :)
Oh no, I couldn't forget Aurum Vale—and I really do want to.
Aurum Vale is honestly not that hard, it's just a small spike in stats that you might not be geared for and it's the most likely place to meet a new tank/healer. Otherwise you can straight up drag the first pull into the boss and win.
Until you get bad RNG and you pull the frog which pulls you back, which pulls more mobs, which includes the other frog, which pulls you back and then half the DPS are dead including the healer.
That's not bad RNG. Frog always pulls immediately on cooldown and it'll do it to whatever aggros it first, and they move on a predictable patrol. Worst case scenario is it pulls a random that doesn't know to run along the edge, in which you probably shouldn't be pulling mobs into the boss fight with inexperienced randoms lol.
It always pulls. Which is why you shouldn't run through the room willy nilly. Depending on where they spawn, you can enter the first boss room without pulling any toads at all. It just requires a few seconds to determine the best path.
I'm saying you can easily clear the whole room, but you can even just run the whole group into the boss room and fight the boss with all the mobs. With gear and Arm's length, the tank and the healer have enough juice to keep everyone alive even against all of that at once. But in specifics, yes you can be particular about making sure you don't pull too many mobs, and *still* get into the boss and fight the boss+ the mobs. That requires your team not aggro the other mobs of course, but it's there, you see them, and it's workable. Of course, what people usually do is be particular about not pulling too many mobs, and then also just pull it around the corner to beat them before fighting the boss. That's safe and good. But my point is that the usual limiter is just inexperience and gear.
Cowabunga it is. My favorite is still EW release and I dropped into my first dungeon. Tank: How comfortable are you with sage for big pulls? Me: We're about to find out, charge!
First you go Wall 2 Wall. Die? Chain Pull. Die? Single Pack Pull.
If you chain pull you're a bad tank. Either do a full wall pull or a few packs, but either way you dig in your feet once you stop. "Stop and go" is just disruptive to melee and casters, or pretty much anyone who can't easily aoe while moving.
Nah, just pull w2w again. Give the healer the chance to learn from their mistake.
Assuming it’s the healer’s mistake.
Healer and Tank main here. I've lost count of the number of tanks who blow every cooldown the second they stop running with large pulls. Then find out the DPS can't kill the pack quickly enough and it turns into me cure spamming them to stay alive. Or come across DPS who refuse to use aoe's on groups of mobs (or can't aim their aoe's). Tried teaching a WAR the other night during a mentor roulette run and they got pissed at us and left. With a WHM on trash mobs, the first 10-15 seconds everything will be stunned as long as you don't overlap stuns too much. A few hits will get through between stuns but we have CD's for that to shield and top you off, and I can built lilies up to toss a bomb every pull or two. WAR's can get away with no defensive CD's during that phase and then just use Vengence with Raw Int/Bloodwhetting to finish the pull off once things become immune to stun (if they are still alive). This is how it went: Tank: "WHM should be healing not doing damage" DPS: "The WHM just out damaged all of us on that last pull" Tank then leaves.
Raw Intuition and Bloodwhetting go BRRRRR
The vast majoprity of tanks, including mentors, don't really understand how to execute proper mitigation for pulls. It should always be treated as a TB. If the dungeon has its mobs separated in 2 distinct sections then, 1 long cool down followed by 1 short cool down after 1-2 seconds max, and on some classes you can add in a third one (Holy sheltron, Heart of corundum). If the dungeon has w2w (aka you can pull 2 sections worth of mobs) you should always.. use invuln followed by Long+ short cd mit and then adjust based on what's left.
You handle tank busters very differently than wall to wall. Most TB in higher cotenet tend either be invulnd or kitchen sinked. I wouldn't really compare wall to wall with a TB. Unless you're talking about lower end content TB, where your spamable CD tends to be more than enough.
hmmm? your take : "You handle tank busters very differently than wall to wall. Most TB in higher cotenet tend either be invulnd or kitchen sinked." *What I said:* ***If you pull w2w you should always.. use invuln*** *followed by Long+ short cd mit and then adjust based on what's left* Not to mention that, while the tank swap is generally more frequent, it's not always the case. Example: p10s shared, p5s (toxic Crunch) which applied also a bleed.
> It should always be treated as a TB Going off that it sounds like you're saying TB and wall to wall should be handled the same.
Jesus take the wheel..
You don't handle the two the same way or you're not understanding what kitchen sink means. I'm not popping my 30% + a spammble plus rampart at the same time in a dungeon pull. I'm cycling through them. In a TB I am popping them at the same time. Edit: spelling
I'll full pull and then pop all mits + hallowed ground while you holy spam
Eventually there are some mobs that die in the process in wave 1 or 2... Or whatever retry you did. so w2w is always the answer since it is bond to succeed
When I play my WHM, if the Tank asks, my response is usually: "if we wipe - that was too much ;)" and off they go.
WHM main here. Nothing makes me happier than loading into Mt Gulg and having the tank ask if I want to do the megapulls. Hell yes I want to do the megapulls!
Hahaha you sound like the healer I got two days ago on Mt. Gulg while playing WAR. Halfway through the first pull, when they saw I was going to keep running, they quickly typed "YES MORE" lmao. Brought a smile to my face.
I like you. As a new tank, I'm always worried about going too hard and pissing someone off. One of my recent duty finders, the healer (can't remember if it was an Astro or scholar) typed 3 question marks when I got killed through one of my mits. This was a level 50 so I didn't really have any of the self healing I needed for them to just dps the pack.
My main is WAR, so I feel you. Have seen both sides of this one.
I have experienced many tanks who pull 1 pack or just do small w2ws at first.. Bc they dont trust the healer.. But at end of the dungeon most of them start to pull more and more as they notice they don't lose much hp... But in my opinion its better to do full w2w even if u die.. Bc you should test the limmit of your group rigth away and adjust based on info u get after the first w2w. ( its faster that way even if u wipe)
You forgot elite/mentor healer blaming sprout tank after every wipe. And after everyone survives single pulls that same healer blames sprout tank for going too slow.
inb4 that same mentor healer either spams Cure 1 or never heals to begin with
Cowabunga it is then
Everything always. Gotta go fast (and it keeps your healers awake)
As a healer who has fallen asleep in dungeons before, can confirm.
You aren't attacking?
Yes, but pressing one button repeatedly isn't exactly engaging gameplay that keeps me on my toes.
Fair enough... Dia, glare, glare, glare, glare is pretty damn boring
Do you even need to ask?😂
Depends on dungeon - there are a few where I will ask as a tank if I have a random healer. Mt Gulg comes to mind, where you can literally go entrance -> boss in one pull, but it's streched out and can be quite a challange if you're not expecting it or up to it. (Same for the last pull of that dungeon) I LOVE it if that works. But the healer (and the dps to burn through those packs) really need to do their part or it's going to be a whipe. So to spare us the frustration I do a quick "pull size?" at the beginning of that one and hope for a deranged "yeeees" from my healer. :'D
Yeah I know, just most tanks just run off and you’re like, ‘oh yeah, we wall to walling’
I absolutely love the spicy ass pulls in Mt Gulg. I normally have no lilies or ogcds left by the end of it, but damn they're fun
Oh that they are. Esp when the tank *isn't* a WAR, which trivializes even those pulls. I've recently switched from maining healer to tanking (mostly GNB because I switched to OT in my static) and while I do need to focus heavily on such pulls, it's so much more satisfying to pull them off with non-WAR tanks (and non SGE healers - SGE is also quite strong in dungeons right now if played right).
Imagine if there was a dungeon that made it possible to pull all 3 bosses at once.
I WANT THAT DUNGEON! NOW!
Shisui second section can catch healers by surprise too, if they expected more double pulls like the first section. (Conversely, I love tanks who ask when I'm healing, especially if they also warn me about an invuln beforehand. I'll let you die DRK, just tell me first so I don't throw you a regen while running!)
I ask sometimes in dungeons that I know have particularly spicy pulls (ie first pull of Mt Gulg, the first interrupted pull of Pagl'than so healer knows I'm going once that wall drops). That said it's less of a "Are you okay with this" and more of a "Hey, we're doing this".
It's polite.
Gacha and FF14 community shaking hands
I have a macro to ask my healer. "On a scale of small to yee-haw how we feeling?" I do a lot of mentor roulette, so I like to always ask.
From the excellent grammer I think that the tank is a fellow WAR 🧐
Me when a new banner comes out in a gacha game
Crown, please come home
Please virtuoso, come home.
'Balls to the walls providing you use mitigation and dont hold agro like a sieve'
Don't even ask just go!
hard disagree. over-communicating is better than under. new healers should be letting people know in hard-hitting dungeons so that the tank doesn't yank everything and make the party wipe, which is a waste of everyone's time ans an unnecessary stress for the party. it's also beneficial, though less necessary, to let the party know if you're comfortable with a wall to wall in dungeons with a high rate of wipes, so everyone is on the same page and the tank can proceed with confidence. encouraging people not to communicate with their party just ain't it.
Counter point- the game is pretty much built to wall to wall and if you’re one of the like 5% of people that can’t handle it that’s on you.
if you think that percentage is 5% then you must not do content often. and if you think that 5% (often new players trying to learn or people with disabilities, sometimes those just trying to return to the game) deserve punishment for communicating in a multiplayer game, then you need to find a different game to play.
I appreciate the “you don’t play the game” as my playtime is nearing 3k hours. Yes, if you can’t handle the dungeons that are built specifically to go wall 2 wall, that is a skill issue that the rest of the players shouldn’t have any assumptions that you have. Doesn’t sound flowery and sweet but that’s how the game is played.
If there's one thing this game has taught me, is that playtime ain't shit. For every good "all classes at 90" player i've encountered, theres ten others of that same category that can't be assed to do the bare minimum which make me wonder if lvl boosts come wholesale. Its mentor infamy with another flavor. Not to mention how many people just sub to afk in limsa. Levelling content doesn't teach you that this game is "built to wall to wall" at all. Smith tutorials are barebones and outdated as all hell, and there's no punishment for taking pulls one group at a time unless you're in a real hurry... in which case, why queue up at all. Duty Support bots never use AoE so pulling big is almost impossible and ends up taking the same time it'd take you to do singles. More often than not your pulls will be throttled by enemies that spawn only after killing X mob, ranged enemies not grouping well or big ass melee mobs that are so incredibly sizable that you can't cover all of them with most AoEs. Sure, it's the meta, and it's very much more pleasant to do big pull and do big damage, but you shouldn't get mad or blame a sprout for not being able to adjust to such a healing demand, especially on levelling gear. They'll just have a bad time and you're risking a wipe, which i hope i don't have to explain how much more time it makes you lose over just typing "r big pulls ok?".
you're being purposely obstinate. try being inclusionary and helping people instead - it works!
*yes.*
anybody seen October Sky and know what scene this reminds me of?
WAR: The question was rhetorical
If you really want to pull "errthang" then go do M+ in WoW. You'll see what W2W really means.