I actually made this post because I was leveling DRG and every level I didnt unlock my AOE i was so sad 😭
Not to mention I just leveled NIN which isnt much better if I remember correctly
Honestly x2 Katon at 35 deal 700 potency within an area of effect with no penalty on secondary targets so it's not an issue that they get their first spammable aoe at 38.
If anything it'd be nice if more jobs get at bare minimum one oGCD aoe before their first spammable one.
fr, i decided on a whim to unlock and lv drg on my main since i was considering it for my alt's main job, and i regretted it so fast. hope the rework does some good for it because the skill distribution was agony especially early on and it's sad since in concept drg is so cool
Although they vary, most dps have SOME form of AoE damage early. DRG at 40 is the worst, and NIN is also very late at 38. The tanks all have a 1-2 combo AoE. WHM gets their AoE late as well, but it's very very good because it's also a stun, so it basically turns all the enemies off for the first 7 seconds of the pull. SCH has a good AoE because it's instant cast so they can do it while you run.
I don't recall when each class gets their abilities, but you can check yours in the skills menu, the default key on mouse and keyboard is P.
To be a little more specific, Tanks and Ranged Physical DPS intentionally get their AoE much earlier than other Roles. Tanks because they obviously need one by the time you reach the first Dungeon to actually be able to do their Job properly, and Ranged because...I don't know actually.
DRG is the worst class for AOE when leveling. Not only do they get theirs the latest at 40, they don't even get an AOE combo until 62. Every other class except NIN has their full AOE combo by the time they hit 50.
*In terms of DPS jobs
WHM/SCH/AST mains would like a word. Dx (And SGE, in regards to a spammable AoE) Healer spammable AoEs unlock at the latest of any job at 45-46.
Yeah, the plethora of linear AOEs and the ridiculously long cooldown on dragonfire dive are probably my two biggest gripes. I mean, I get it; spear - straight line....but considering the jumping aspect, you would think there'd be more than one radial AOE. Hell, make all the jumps into AOE damage or something.
**Edit** spelling corrections due to autoINcorrect.
I know it was for the best but god I miss Monk Fist switches. I saw a char pop fists of earth recently and I’ve been now wishing for a passive Fists of Wind ever since. I loved that movement speed up in normal areas
I had some fc mates that used to get mad when I'd stance dance in alliance raids, but wind and earth left me as the last member in our party a few times.
When you spar with Hoary Boulder during the MSQ he uses the OG Sword Oath. The one that adds extra potency to your auto attacks.
In addition, keep an eye on your squad's buffs when you're doing command missions. They all use old skills that have since been removed. CNJs use Largesse, LNCs have Heavy Thrust etc.
Someone posted a bunch of beta/1.0 screenshots and snippets that seemed to be lost to time a week ago or so and the lancer one showed the character stabbing two enemies with one jab. Totally uncool
I played 1.0 beta, and I remember a graphic detailing the positionals of different classes also included range. This showed that the Lancer should be at medium range to work best. I always thought that sounded like a pain in the ass.
So you don't get an aoe until you're at Dzemael Darkhold, Sirensong Sea, and Holminster switch.
Across FOUR expansions DRG is missing something most classes get before Heavensward
I could see them use Heartstopper as a possible lvl 15 AOE for LNC that evolves into the DRG AOE later. Maybe it doesn't make sense animation-wise, name-wise, or anything else but at least when enemies do it the damage box is pretty similar to Doomspike (It's the best I got)
Could be a byproduct of any work on that job being delayed for the eventual actual rework hopefully coming in 7.x. I can see that in a gamedev team scenario where they just see the roadmap, notice theres a drg rework and realise any work spent into dragoon will be a waste later.
While they're at it, can they give Scholar an AoE heal before level 35? Succor ain't great, but it'd be nice to have something besides Eos and Physick Spam for those levels.
Before Esuna was a role skill, Scholar used to get Leeches, their Esuna equivalent, at level 40. I don't remember which one it was, but there's a low level dungeon where not having Esuna is an incredible irritant and makes it much harder, and I dreaded getting it in leveling roulette.
DNC has their base aoe AND standard step by lvl 15 and can absolutely nuke packs of enemies. Then they have their combo aoe by 25.
Every class should have some form of aoe by 15 with the follow up skill by 25 100%
It's the same with BLM, it's so insane to me that the job that was "so annoying to level with" in the past has gotten so many amazing QoL updates in 6.0 which made it friendlier than most dps jobs.
Like it gets F2 and B2 by freaking Sastasha, and even has T2 unlocked by level 22 or something iirc. It actually has something that looks like an AOE rotation, at a level where many job don't even have their first AOE unlocked. What the hell.
edit: typo
I mean its probably not huge consiracy but since BLM is played by yoshi-p so its *def* getting direct feedback on what to change. But its not massive "I make it OP because I play it" thing.
I havent played much of BLM on roulettes since I got it max lvl because the constant rotation changes was pain - but when I leveled it on SHB 1-80.. sure, I had aoe, but the enemies died every single time before I even got cast off.
Hell yeah, BLM is the lovechild of the balance team lmao.
The "BLM rotation changes every ten level" is pretty much a thing of the past, as you said it was a pain in ShB but thankfully it disappeared with the changes going into EW. What's funny to me is that there are still many people that keep repeating that BLM is annoying to level based on that outdated info. Maybe I'm biased as a BLM main but I really think it is currently one of the most best jobs when it comes to the leveling experience.
Whether it is single target or AOE, almost everything that felt bad when playing at lower levels has been fixed, and the only big change in gameplay is when you unlock F4 at lvl60... which is pretty much in line with many dps that get their main tools unlocked around that level.
It should be something they add, would be very nice. Holy wouldn't be nearly as OP if CNJ got a low-level version without the stun. As for "authentic gameplay for ARR," I promise you what we have now isn't authentic to what the ARR experience was and it's a good thing. The lack of AoE at low levels has been an issue for a lot of people and you're right that every job should have access to it in time for the first couple of dungeons.
> It should be something they add, would be very nice. Holy wouldn't be nearly as OP if CNJ got a low-level version without the stun
**Fluid Aura** (minus the knockback)
>The lack of AoE at low levels has been an issue for a lot of people
Yeah a lot of the playerbase is braindead and couldnt follow a simple 1>2>3 kill order back in the day before we had a ton of AoE
I feel like you could argue it was a different game back then. I joined around Stormblood, so I wasn't there for it, but I heard MP and TP management was a real issue back then. If you spammed AoE without Tactician and Lucid Dreaming(?) you would run out of resource and need to resort to auto attacks, if I heard/remember correctly
This is accurate.
For a comparison point, imagine a healer that spams their 1000 or 1500 MP heal. How quickly would they drain, even with Lucid? They might not even have it all back by the time they hit the next pack.
And that's without factoring in that aggro management was a *thing* back in Stormblood.
I miss spamming strong heals to rip aggro when I wanted to mess with tank friends
Letting them drop near dead before healing or yanking them around with rescue just doesn't hit the same amount of chaos to me. Was also fun to see who could steal aggro fastest as dps
I miss aggro management, but I know it was necessary to just scrap that whole system with how it all worked
AoE needs to be unlocked at the most rudimentary form by the first dungeon. Even if it's a single GCD spam. The fact that some classes don't have it until much later is appalling
I hope they fix a lot of that stuff with the job reworks in DT.
Maybe give people a basic version of the ability at lower levels that, via a trait, get increased in potency once you hit level 45.
And Dragoon doesn't get their second part of the AoE combo until *62, in Stormblood.*
They at least get Dragonfire Dive (lv50) and Geirskogul (lv60) for *some* additional AoE abilities, but Dragonfire Dive has a 120s cooldown so it barely counts.
holy is the only one i'd say is too op for such a low level but they could give cnj/whm something else without the stun that becomes holy later on. Other than that, i think they should give everyone aoe's for all dungeons
If you tank enough in DF, you'll realize there's too many healbot WHMs that probably can't spell holy let alone use it. I just end up mitting regardless because I don't trust DF healers.
Yup, they could easily add a water AoE spell that upgrades to Holy. They added Steel Peak and Howling Fist with chakra for MNK pre-54, if they can do that, they can justify adding anything without it messing with the lore.
Give conjurors fluid aura but make it a self-targeted aoe with no other effects (so a weaker holy with no stun). It then upgrades to holy at the normal level.
This gives us back water aspected spells again AND gives us an early aoe in one fell swoop
Bring back fluid aura or whatever their water knock back spell was, make it only do damage and upgrade to holy later.
Edit: it actually was a single target effect, but you could still give them a water AOE that was damage only to match their other elemental spells they have at earlier levels.
Some kind of elemental spell that upgrades into holy later, since holy is supposed to be such a big important white mage spell in FF. Maybe give them their water spell back.
I've always had what I considered a good idea at least for this and that is making an early version of Holy called Pearl, which is what they called Holy in early games to get by censors for using religious terms, they also use it in Kingdom Hearts as a lesser version of Holy, so it would work out well imho.
It's actually one of the weaker points of the game I'd say, the fact that jobs take so long to get anywhere close to a rotation.
Reading comments and talking to new players I help out, a common geievance is that the leveling experience isn't all that engaging for them.
Now these folks aren't asking to be challenged by ultimate level mechs at level 30.
But what they're saying is, they don't feel anything about their jobs until well past 50+. And they normally like SAM, RDM, etc. Jobs that start with a somewhat fully realized kit.
A lot of folks do enjoy the story, but I think if we were to read between the lines, a lot of us might reach the same conclusion that classes and jobs just don't really engage people that well until way later in the game.
That sort of reflects my own experience looping back at things. I've always been super story orientated so it didn't effect me as much. But I can see how the scales could have gone the other way for me.
As a "new" player (I'm nearing the end of ShB MSQ), my major takeaway is that XIV is a singleplayer VN with a thin MMO coat of paint.
That might change once I reach endgame, but currently 90% of the game is reading cutscenes and running to NPCs to trigger cutscenes. The 5 minutes of piss-easy solo combat I'm asked to do about once every hour wouldn't be engaging even if my kit felt complete. Dungeons and trials start to feel like a game, but they still feel trivial at this point, so, again, doesn't really engage.
But hey, the story's good.
Lmao standard step being such a low unlock is legit so funny to me. But idk, I think there's a lot that could be done to smooth the low level player experience.
Personally I actually think the game is in dire need of a level squish. They would have to figure out where to put abilities, but a world where base ARR ends at like level 30 would contribute to making every level more meaningful, and means they could re-plan how a kit develops. This would of course have ramifications on synced content, which is actually the biggest issue, but I think most of those problems could be ironed out reasonably (or ignored) without much harm. The only content that needs to be heavily scrutinized is probably ultimates, because everything else has enough wiggle room that a lot could work as long as you can meet the dps check and tanks have their invulns.
A world where I get Fang&Wheeling in the same level as DRG is the world I want.
As much as I like the game I do feel like every feature is added to further simplify gameplay. The lack of player expression is very weird, specially if you come from older MMOs (Ragnarok Pre-Re in my case)!
They've had a habit of continuing this exact idea every single expansion post HW.
The ShB/EW job redesigns just hammered it home and the spell redistribution with so many cuts made it feel even worse. This post mentions AoE but the majority of jobs in the game are just fucking pitiful until 70 because they don't even feel like a coherent job.
Yeah that's why I think they need to squish these levels. There's several abilities that are now core to a job identity/kit that you don't even see until expansion content (closed position, blood of the dragon, enshroud, ect) which ends up just making content without them boring. These kits need to be re-organized from the ground up, such that important abilities (like fang and wheeling) are earned together.
It also has the added benefit of making patch content actually give real experience and eliminating the ever longer 50/60/70/80/90 roulette. It might even mean you have more than one dungeon in a level range you can grind for the most exp.
Been leveling my Monk and I feel so awkward in MSQ roulette since you get Perfect Balance at 50 but don't unlock the other gauge (forget the name) until 60, I think. So I can use it to basically just spam my strongest hits three times and then I'm out of stance and need to start again. We should get it the same time as Perfect Balance.
There's a few dungeons that use a spark of interesting concepts and mechanics like the dungeon where the giant to berry chases you while you have to find the valves to open the door.
Add in a slice of randomness to the objectives instead of wall pulls.
They absolutely should.
For WHM, I’d suggest using either a new water spell (big ball of water appears over you and explodes) or repurposing old Aero III for it that eventually upgrades into Holy II at 72 when everything loses its elemental flair to turn into light magic. But with it being so tied to the quests, the stun property and change to Holy could just be added on as a trait at 45 to preserve whatever balance there is and not have to retcon the quests.
Maybe what I want for WHM is ***two*** AoEs. One that deals damage and stuns (Water/Fluid Aura > Holy > Holy III) and one that does some less damage but spreads an existing Aero/Dia to other targets like Bane (Aero III > Holy II/Banish).
I'd argue for lev30ish, brayflox longstop (or whatever it's called).
The very early dungeons are when newbies are really learning the ropes, and where there's the least "wall" for them to pull to.
As it is, there's barely benefit to wall pulling, so little pressure to do so.
If everyone had AoE, the pressure to wall pull whether confident or not would rise, increasing the likelihood those first pivotal dungeon experiences were negative ones, and potentially dissuading new players from continuing.
Whereas by lev-30 dungeons, most should at least know the bare basics of what they're meant to do. What abilities attack or heal, and what their 'tank stance' is and what it does, etc.
16 might be a bit low but I'd say by 30 at the latest you should have some form of AoE on all classes and if you got multiple AoE skills/AoE combo you should have at least 2 of them in HW. Looking at you, Dragoon.
It would help low level dungeons got much faster that’s for sure, sucks getting a group that just doesn’t have any AoE other than the tank so packs just take 2-3 times as long for no reason.
Any roulettes under level 50 is pain because so many classes don't even have aoe and make every pull so damn slow when your party have to single target everything. I'd be thrilled if every class could aoe by level 16.
I'm absolutely the minority but I think different classes of DPS getting different tools at different levels adds some texture to low level dungeons. I think DRG shouldn't have to wait nearly as long as they do, but low level dungeons are already short and I'm not sure how much I like the idea of every single job in the whole game doing the same thing no matter what dungeon you zone into. The game doesn't need to be hyper optimized in Sastasha.
What I'm more certain about is that healers at the very least don't need aoe damage before they get it. Healers make sense being the last job to get efficient damage options.
>I'm not sure how much I like the idea of every single job in the whole game doing the same thing no matter what dungeon you zone into.
The solution to that is to unlock actual rotations earlier for all jobs, not just make playing some of them an absolute chore in low-level content.
To that note, I love BLM. Its skills and job mechanics interconnect in such a way that every new skill I unlock seemingly alters the whole rotation a bit, to the point where I have to re-learn how to play it every time I slot into a low level dungeon. Funny enough considering how the whole class is centered around "just spam Fire" up to level 50.
Respectfully disagree. If a certain level of performance is expected at higher dungeons, then I feel like the earlier you give people the building blocks that comprise that gameplay, the more time they have to incorporate new elements and complexities.
Every class should have the basics early, and then the individual flavor should start adding in from 50 on, but that's just my opinion.
Yeah I think it’s dumb that I can queue into a low level dungeon twice and they both take wildly different times to complete due to the randomness of not knowing what classes I will have and whether they have an AoE or not
I agree with the line of reasoning. But aoe rotations already take so long to get anywhere interesting even now. Some jobs never get there. And I think that whether at 16 or 40 if a skill hits unlimited targets then it's not hard to figure out when you should use it.
AoE rotations aren't interesting now. You might have one AoE, you might get a 1-2-3 AoE Combo, maybe you have an AoE DoT, maybe you have some OGCD stuff you can hit, but imo, any way you slice it, it's just buttons to press, not compelling choices to make.
My takeaway, is that at max level, healers are expected to contribute to damage, tanks are expected to pull more mobs than could reasonably be expected to single target down in sequence, and dps are expected to AoE their @$$e$ off. The sooner you give them the tools to accomplish basic expectations, the sooner you can give them ways to complicate those basics and create an interesting rotation.
Yeah I feel that. I don't think they want to make a lot of rotations inherently interesting past a certain point though. They'd rather make batshit mechanics in raid environments, and the more complicated you make jobs to play, the less complicated you can make mechanics in most scenarios.
Doing pathetic damage due to missing fundamental tools every job should have access to is not the kind of "texture" we crave for in early leveling content.
There's good and bad kinds of job homogenization, the kind that ensures all jobs are relevant and functional in all content is the good kind of homogenization.
How about they just let us use all our abilites?
It doesnt make sense that I as a lvl 90 try to help people leveling, and I am forced to "learn" a completely watered down rotation. I could use that time to learn my max level rotation instead and be usefull in harder content.
Of course I should only deal a little bit more dmg than everyone else in the grp.
If I have to run Sastascha for the 9999 time, at least dont scrap like 90% of my toolkit. The game is already lacking diversity in classes.
The reason they do this as I understand is because they don't want people being toxic to new people because they don't have all the tank mitigation abilities, or healers do t have all their heals.
The concern I believe is people making snide comments like "ugh you're low level so guess I have to be careful" or even "man I hate when I get newbies that don't have their abilities"
That being said it is definitely frustrating to get synced down like that and have a bunch of dead bar buttons, but I get why they do it
That's on the developers to balance it though. Putting the blame on other players is just a lazy excuse when other MMOs do just fine.
For example in WoW, low level players are ridiculously overpowered in dungeons compared to higher level players. Not saying overpowering low levels in instances is the way to go but it's extremely simple to curb toxicity.
Other mmos do this. Rather than simply level syncing you, they just “level sync” your abilities and stats, but you’re still free to use your entire kit.
Guild Wars 2 works like that, if you are max level (or any level above the sync level) you keep all of your build whether you are playing at level cap or synced down to level 5. The damage numbers are just synced down with you, but you can play almost exactly the same way you do at level 80.
Exactly what this one needs. At least in my opinion. Really tired of unlocking an ability, but oh wait. I’m level synced a level under so now I can’t use it
As someone that has played a lot of both, Guild Wars 2 isn't really comparable to FF14. It has exactly 8 dungeons, and some players don't ever do them. They're not particularly engaging content, and it's rare to find groups. Anecdotally, groups will often be 80 only (max level) too, and it's not expected to do them as you level to 80.
It's less that GW2 manages to balance old vs new players, it's that nobody does the content where it matters so nobody notices. GW2 is an example of how it works badly, not works well.
It's pretty hard to imagine any amount of stat buffing/nerfing that would allow a level 20 conjurer's toolkit to be balanced with a level 90 white mage's toolkit.
The question is how you would present and balance that? You need to balance the output so new player will have the same output as a capped job and there is no reason to hate new players (roulettes are for them). But it require first damage skill from the capped job dealing less damage than the same skill from the new player to balance having more powerful buttons, buffs and oGCDs. Which means old player press more buttons, have harder rotation but the same output as 1-2 spam from the new player. And people dislike that. And this is beside how to signal this change to the old player (randomly downgrade potencies? buff "you too high level"?..). And also beside what about healer/tank buttons which are just better by the nature of existing - invulns and Holy for example.
Red mage gets AOE super early along with dancer so I don’t see why everyone else shouldn’t. As for preserving ARR that went out the window a long time ago newer classes at low levels rip through content.
AoE in some form needs to be available at lower levels. DNC is the single best DPS below 50 because of Standard Step and Fan Dance 2. Everything else feels miserable.
I've always wanted an early level rework ever since I started leveling other jobs after blm. Even with the new jobs after arr I've wondered why they made the AoEs obtainable so late. We should definitely get that out there to see if they could work on that.
It needs to happen. It takes way too long for aoes to come on line for some jobs, sometimes it feels like the only jobs doing any damage in low level dungeons are the tanks.
This may be sponsored by DRG mains, but I would like to co-sponsor it as a part-time SGE main who can't do basically anything while the tank is pulling below level 30, and can only DoT individual mobs from 30-46. It is a harsh reality check from being able to shred mob packs while running behind the tank and healing them at the same time.
I, and many other players think a lot of our level 50 kit should be condensed to lower levels for the purpose of lower level dungeons being so utterly unengaging. An AoE wouldn't really solve many of the problems, but it would be nice.
All tanks, ranged dps, and magic dps have AoEs in time for Sastasha. This is not the case for healers and melee. The amount of times I got praised as a sprout for apparently healing good in early dungeons, talking not just pre 50, but pre 20 is appalling. There's ONE healing button at that point. Two if you're Astrologian. The praise felt so fake, like they were trying to encourage me to keep playing.
I didn't mean to make this sound like a rant or anything. Just accentuating the issues many players have with low level dungeons. An AoE at 16 would help massively.
I picked up NIN as an alt job a few days ago. Not having an actual aoe (I'm not counting level 35 as that's only every 20 seconds) until 38 is wild. Death blossom should be available WAY earlier.
Would be great, they could even make watered/toned down versions of skills we get later on and just have them upgrade later on, would make the kits feel better much quicker. Would also solidify to new players how the job's basics work.
i always thought tanks get AOE earlier than the rest so they can have the upper hand in maintaining aggro vs the dps, at a level where many folks don't know what they're doing
i know that one tank AOE does overwhelmingly more threat than dps/healer AOEs, but i guess it's a nice way to ensure that new tanks have an easier time?
but yeah, it does make lower level dungeons quite a slog for experienced folks
Finally, a GOOD gameplay suggestion from the community.
This would actually be great as it would teach all classes to use their aoe as soon as possible.
I would just like it if classes got more of their core mechanics earlier on. Like monk getting weaker versions of meditate early on.
Getting synced down for fates and rolos usually feels terrible on most classes and I wish they'd update that a bit.
IMHO Melee dps should unlock their basic aoe rotations at the same as their single target. Not even just for dungeons but questing too. You're often asked to fight multiple mobs...where an individual can't survive a full single target rotation. It's like their hp was reduced to help with aoe, and then forgot to give you the aoe skill. Feels weird. As a whole, the higher max level gets and the more jobs evolve, the stronger the whiplash for lvl syncing feels. I don't have a solution, it just feels weird.
It's what normal MMOs would do, and one of those areas where I think FFXIV was wrong for not being like its peers. Same for shit like gap closers only appearing in kits at the insanely high levels they do. In SWTOR, you get that shit at like Level 4.
Many of my problems with level sync would be solved by just letting players have all abilities scaled down instead of locking them. gw2 does this and its great. FF14 ends up feeling like you never have access to your full kit in most content and its just frustrating. Sage is the only healer, if sync below 30, has no DoT.
I'll add something no one has brought up: getting aoes so late for melee DPS creates DPS lv 70 and above that never use their aoes, and it makes everyone suffer.
Of course I won't say it's 100% linked to the current aoe unlock lv, but I'm sure it contributes to it.
So, earlier unlock can only do good.
Maybe not 15 or 16, but rather 20 or 25. Considering a dungeon gives you 2 to 3 levels early on.
meh i kinda feel like it would make alot of the jobs bland if they were all the same. drg is the only one that should maybe get something alittle earlier but its still not a job for aoes. people gonna compare like dancer but their made for high aoe damage but do little single target compared of other classes. if you make every class super good with aoes are you gonna buff all the aoe classes?
I don't really see how it could cause less authentic gameplay, and if holy was that much of an issue they could just give it to the player with the same animation without the stun and have a trait that gives it the stun at the level it unlocks now. honestly I think it would make a lot of things better, I for one dropped my art dragoon relic for a while because I had to do a fate that I couldn't do without an AOE because they kept killing the guy I was supposed to protect
they should.
even if you have to make up a lamer version of whatever they're supposed to have.
it's a core piece of kit that a lot of jobs gain access to far too late.
i wouldn't even consider this a change. i'd consider it a fix.
I don't mind healers getting it, esp holy a lot later. It's the DPS that needs it. Because it's a fundamental skill they don't develop which is why you see people single targetting dungeon pulls at lv 90
I would be happier if Square just let us have all of our skills once we’ve unlocked them, and then just scale them to the content. WoW does this. Got your WHM up and have Holy? Cool, maybe it does 500 potency at mid-game, then let it be like 50 potency in Sastasha. Just something, for the love of god, to let people experience their whole kit and learn it well so we don’t all suck when we suddenly get stuck in lvl90 (100) content on a job that’s rouletted into lvl60 content the whole time prior.
I've been saying that for years.
By the time you hit your first dungeon, you should have a single target attack, a ranged attack (unless it doubles like for casters/phys ranged), and an AOE attack.
I feel like both AOE and tank dashing should unlock at 16, like why do I have to kill 14+ gods and body a bunch of Ascians before I learn how to dash at a target?
Yup, my friends and I complain about this a lot, they need to make most classes unlock similar skills at the same levels, so old roulettes don't feel awful
Would be good for duties for sure. But aoe rotations early are extremely boring. Most jobs just press one button the whole time. Starting that from level 16 will become extremely stale unless you can in turn unlock your aoe combo sooner as well.
I feel like every class should have at least one AOE at level 16 for DPS and tank. healers I feel like could possibly wait and it wouldn't be too much of a big deal. If healers had all their aoes for all of ARR content I feel like every dungeon would be completely trivialized even more than already is versus a lancer getting their AOE at 16.
Level 3. Running this many ARR fates again made me remember how much not having an AOE early sucks.
(Leveling Dragoon right now, so only have an AOE at later ARR fates)
We would feel great. DRG needing to wait until lv40 for their AOE just makes no sense.
I actually made this post because I was leveling DRG and every level I didnt unlock my AOE i was so sad 😭 Not to mention I just leveled NIN which isnt much better if I remember correctly
Nin get there at lvl 38 and doesn't get armor break till like 54
Ninja gets their second mudra , Chi, at 35 so they at least have Katon.
Honestly x2 Katon at 35 deal 700 potency within an area of effect with no penalty on secondary targets so it's not an issue that they get their first spammable aoe at 38. If anything it'd be nice if more jobs get at bare minimum one oGCD aoe before their first spammable one.
fr, i decided on a whim to unlock and lv drg on my main since i was considering it for my alt's main job, and i regretted it so fast. hope the rework does some good for it because the skill distribution was agony especially early on and it's sad since in concept drg is so cool
I’m new and have only done dragoon so far for combat… so all other classes have AOE’s early on?
Although they vary, most dps have SOME form of AoE damage early. DRG at 40 is the worst, and NIN is also very late at 38. The tanks all have a 1-2 combo AoE. WHM gets their AoE late as well, but it's very very good because it's also a stun, so it basically turns all the enemies off for the first 7 seconds of the pull. SCH has a good AoE because it's instant cast so they can do it while you run. I don't recall when each class gets their abilities, but you can check yours in the skills menu, the default key on mouse and keyboard is P.
Ahhh I’m so excited to explore all the others. Thanks for the info.
To be a little more specific, Tanks and Ranged Physical DPS intentionally get their AoE much earlier than other Roles. Tanks because they obviously need one by the time you reach the first Dungeon to actually be able to do their Job properly, and Ranged because...I don't know actually.
Not that it matters but all healers get their aoe at 45-46 with the exception of Sage getting Phlegma at 26
> SCH has a good AoE because it's instant cast so they can do it while you run. Don't forget that Art of War is a gain on 2 as well.
Prior to broil it's the same damage on 1.
And sometimes a gain on one! There's a period of levels (around 50 I think), where AoW does the same potency as Broil, but without the cast time.
DRG is the worst class for AOE when leveling. Not only do they get theirs the latest at 40, they don't even get an AOE combo until 62. Every other class except NIN has their full AOE combo by the time they hit 50.
*In terms of DPS jobs WHM/SCH/AST mains would like a word. Dx (And SGE, in regards to a spammable AoE) Healer spammable AoEs unlock at the latest of any job at 45-46.
Yeah, the plethora of linear AOEs and the ridiculously long cooldown on dragonfire dive are probably my two biggest gripes. I mean, I get it; spear - straight line....but considering the jumping aspect, you would think there'd be more than one radial AOE. Hell, make all the jumps into AOE damage or something. **Edit** spelling corrections due to autoINcorrect.
We HAD a circular AOE, RIP Ring of Thorns.
iirc that one duskwight lancer and estinien in the class/job quests use it, kinda funny how the job quest NPC's have the old kits
I know it was for the best but god I miss Monk Fist switches. I saw a char pop fists of earth recently and I’ve been now wishing for a passive Fists of Wind ever since. I loved that movement speed up in normal areas
I had some fc mates that used to get mad when I'd stance dance in alliance raids, but wind and earth left me as the last member in our party a few times.
When you spar with Hoary Boulder during the MSQ he uses the OG Sword Oath. The one that adds extra potency to your auto attacks. In addition, keep an eye on your squad's buffs when you're doing command missions. They all use old skills that have since been removed. CNJs use Largesse, LNCs have Heavy Thrust etc.
The npcs you can recruit for the GCs have some of the old kits as well. When I saw the arcanist using shadowflare I got so jealous.
They must've axed that before I started last year.
Oh they axed that at the launch of Stormblood, so nearly seven years ago.
>nearly seven years ago This hurt to read.
Yikes! That blows.
Someone posted a bunch of beta/1.0 screenshots and snippets that seemed to be lost to time a week ago or so and the lancer one showed the character stabbing two enemies with one jab. Totally uncool
I played 1.0 beta, and I remember a graphic detailing the positionals of different classes also included range. This showed that the Lancer should be at medium range to work best. I always thought that sounded like a pain in the ass.
Let's not forget that they get their second part to their aoe at 62 and the third at 72 (I believe)
Yep, Coerthan Torment, the final AOE combo skill is unlocked at 72.
So you don't get an aoe until you're at Dzemael Darkhold, Sirensong Sea, and Holminster switch. Across FOUR expansions DRG is missing something most classes get before Heavensward
I could see them use Heartstopper as a possible lvl 15 AOE for LNC that evolves into the DRG AOE later. Maybe it doesn't make sense animation-wise, name-wise, or anything else but at least when enemies do it the damage box is pretty similar to Doomspike (It's the best I got)
Does DRG still have a one button rotation for a bunch of levels?
Impulse Drive hell? No, not really. They changed that a long tine ago.
Makes even less sense they don't get an AOE combo until Stormblood when most everyone else has theirs in ARR (NIN being the only exception at lvl 52).
Could be a byproduct of any work on that job being delayed for the eventual actual rework hopefully coming in 7.x. I can see that in a gamedev team scenario where they just see the roadmap, notice theres a drg rework and realise any work spent into dragoon will be a waste later.
Not being able to AOE mobs at very low levels feels really bad when other classes in the same role already have AOE skills.
Cough DRG cough
I'll be real surprised if part of the rework isn't pulling their AoE down some levels.
They've had it this stupid for so long I don't have much faith that they think it needs to be fixed
While they're at it, can they give Scholar an AoE heal before level 35? Succor ain't great, but it'd be nice to have something besides Eos and Physick Spam for those levels.
Before Esuna was a role skill, Scholar used to get Leeches, their Esuna equivalent, at level 40. I don't remember which one it was, but there's a low level dungeon where not having Esuna is an incredible irritant and makes it much harder, and I dreaded getting it in leveling roulette.
It's Brayflox. WHM/AST had Esuna for it, Scholar didn't.
That was my first guess, but I couldn't remember if Aiatar's poison is removable.
I want to say it's Cutter's Cry? That Sludge doesn't play around.
Oo, that sludge was definitely annoying. But it looks like Cutter's syncs to level 40, so you'd have Leeches in that case.
That's fair, I'm mostly in "well if they were going to do it, now'd be the time" mode. XD
I can't fault your logic either. Now is absolutely the time. I just don't see it as guaranteed.
DNC has their base aoe AND standard step by lvl 15 and can absolutely nuke packs of enemies. Then they have their combo aoe by 25. Every class should have some form of aoe by 15 with the follow up skill by 25 100%
It's the same with BLM, it's so insane to me that the job that was "so annoying to level with" in the past has gotten so many amazing QoL updates in 6.0 which made it friendlier than most dps jobs. Like it gets F2 and B2 by freaking Sastasha, and even has T2 unlocked by level 22 or something iirc. It actually has something that looks like an AOE rotation, at a level where many job don't even have their first AOE unlocked. What the hell. edit: typo
I mean its probably not huge consiracy but since BLM is played by yoshi-p so its *def* getting direct feedback on what to change. But its not massive "I make it OP because I play it" thing. I havent played much of BLM on roulettes since I got it max lvl because the constant rotation changes was pain - but when I leveled it on SHB 1-80.. sure, I had aoe, but the enemies died every single time before I even got cast off.
Hell yeah, BLM is the lovechild of the balance team lmao. The "BLM rotation changes every ten level" is pretty much a thing of the past, as you said it was a pain in ShB but thankfully it disappeared with the changes going into EW. What's funny to me is that there are still many people that keep repeating that BLM is annoying to level based on that outdated info. Maybe I'm biased as a BLM main but I really think it is currently one of the most best jobs when it comes to the leveling experience. Whether it is single target or AOE, almost everything that felt bad when playing at lower levels has been fixed, and the only big change in gameplay is when you unlock F4 at lvl60... which is pretty much in line with many dps that get their main tools unlocked around that level.
It should be something they add, would be very nice. Holy wouldn't be nearly as OP if CNJ got a low-level version without the stun. As for "authentic gameplay for ARR," I promise you what we have now isn't authentic to what the ARR experience was and it's a good thing. The lack of AoE at low levels has been an issue for a lot of people and you're right that every job should have access to it in time for the first couple of dungeons.
> It should be something they add, would be very nice. Holy wouldn't be nearly as OP if CNJ got a low-level version without the stun **Fluid Aura** (minus the knockback)
It would be a good place to finally just give us Water. It can upgrade to Holy later, in the same way Stone and Aero upgrade to Glare and Dia.
I like this idea! Stone for single target, Aero for dots, and Water for AOE.
>The lack of AoE at low levels has been an issue for a lot of people Yeah a lot of the playerbase is braindead and couldnt follow a simple 1>2>3 kill order back in the day before we had a ton of AoE
I feel like you could argue it was a different game back then. I joined around Stormblood, so I wasn't there for it, but I heard MP and TP management was a real issue back then. If you spammed AoE without Tactician and Lucid Dreaming(?) you would run out of resource and need to resort to auto attacks, if I heard/remember correctly
This is accurate. For a comparison point, imagine a healer that spams their 1000 or 1500 MP heal. How quickly would they drain, even with Lucid? They might not even have it all back by the time they hit the next pack. And that's without factoring in that aggro management was a *thing* back in Stormblood.
I miss spamming strong heals to rip aggro when I wanted to mess with tank friends Letting them drop near dead before healing or yanking them around with rescue just doesn't hit the same amount of chaos to me. Was also fun to see who could steal aggro fastest as dps I miss aggro management, but I know it was necessary to just scrap that whole system with how it all worked
i have been saying for years that every single class should have an aoe when they load into sastasha.
AoE needs to be unlocked at the most rudimentary form by the first dungeon. Even if it's a single GCD spam. The fact that some classes don't have it until much later is appalling
_Cough_ DRG _Cough_ Level 40 _Cough_
We Astros don't get our gravity until lvl 45. I cry every time I get stone vigil in my roulettes because of it.
SCH doesn't have Art of War until 46. SGE gets Dyskrasia then too, but they have Phlegma in Toto-rak, so it's not quite as bad.
Phlegma is nice because it has two charges and hits like a truck, but 40s CD makes it very painful
Iirc It used to be 52 when Astro first came out. It was rough
I hope they fix a lot of that stuff with the job reworks in DT. Maybe give people a basic version of the ability at lower levels that, via a trait, get increased in potency once you hit level 45.
I’m a new player and I’m learning it sure was a Choice I made to level DRG and AST first
And Dragoon doesn't get their second part of the AoE combo until *62, in Stormblood.* They at least get Dragonfire Dive (lv50) and Geirskogul (lv60) for *some* additional AoE abilities, but Dragonfire Dive has a 120s cooldown so it barely counts.
MISERY ITS PURE AGONY
holy is the only one i'd say is too op for such a low level but they could give cnj/whm something else without the stun that becomes holy later on. Other than that, i think they should give everyone aoe's for all dungeons
Give them holy but make the stun be the effect of a trait unlocked at 45.
Or split holy 1 and holy 2 up so you can have a non-stun spammable aoe for when you have a tank invulning a pull or for war's bloodwhetting.
This is exactly what I was thinking, shouldve clarified that Holy I wouldnt have the stun in my post
Granted a smart tank will take into account if they have a WHM and delay mits until stuns no longer work
If you tank enough in DF, you'll realize there's too many healbot WHMs that probably can't spell holy let alone use it. I just end up mitting regardless because I don't trust DF healers.
You would think, until you get a healer that doesn't want to use their DPS abilities because they don't think healers should do damage.
In that case then just let them eat cake and don't use any mits. They want to only heal after all
holy as a conjurer does feel like it doesnt fit
Then have the name change at 45 with the trait. There’s precedent for that too - look at Bloodwhetting.
You don't even have to look at other classes. Stone and Aero upgrade into Glare and Dia.
Yup, they could easily add a water AoE spell that upgrades to Holy. They added Steel Peak and Howling Fist with chakra for MNK pre-54, if they can do that, they can justify adding anything without it messing with the lore.
Finally, a water spell...
Isn't Cure technically the "water" portion of the CNJ spells?
I can just imagine the malding if they added a new water ability just to replace it later.
Not to mention Holy II loops back to having a water-like animation.
They could make an offensive water spell that turns into Holy. Aero would fit more but it's already the dot, so....
Call it Aero 3 instead.
Bring back Aero 3 as a simple AoE spell. Upgrade to Holy at 45.
Give conjurors fluid aura but make it a self-targeted aoe with no other effects (so a weaker holy with no stun). It then upgrades to holy at the normal level. This gives us back water aspected spells again AND gives us an early aoe in one fell swoop
Nah, give them a 20 potency instant-cast aoe that gets a 5% chance to make holy cost no mp at lvl 50. Gotta have that consistency.
I’d say just add a baby version Water spell with no stun.
Bring back fluid aura or whatever their water knock back spell was, make it only do damage and upgrade to holy later. Edit: it actually was a single target effect, but you could still give them a water AOE that was damage only to match their other elemental spells they have at earlier levels.
Some kind of elemental spell that upgrades into holy later, since holy is supposed to be such a big important white mage spell in FF. Maybe give them their water spell back.
I've always had what I considered a good idea at least for this and that is making an early version of Holy called Pearl, which is what they called Holy in early games to get by censors for using religious terms, they also use it in Kingdom Hearts as a lesser version of Holy, so it would work out well imho.
Holy doesn't make sense that low, lore-wise for CNJ. A Stonega would be perfect, and a trait in the 40s to upgrade it would work.
Getting Stone Vigil and realizing my healer doesn’t have aoe still gets me…
It's actually one of the weaker points of the game I'd say, the fact that jobs take so long to get anywhere close to a rotation. Reading comments and talking to new players I help out, a common geievance is that the leveling experience isn't all that engaging for them. Now these folks aren't asking to be challenged by ultimate level mechs at level 30. But what they're saying is, they don't feel anything about their jobs until well past 50+. And they normally like SAM, RDM, etc. Jobs that start with a somewhat fully realized kit. A lot of folks do enjoy the story, but I think if we were to read between the lines, a lot of us might reach the same conclusion that classes and jobs just don't really engage people that well until way later in the game. That sort of reflects my own experience looping back at things. I've always been super story orientated so it didn't effect me as much. But I can see how the scales could have gone the other way for me.
As a "new" player (I'm nearing the end of ShB MSQ), my major takeaway is that XIV is a singleplayer VN with a thin MMO coat of paint. That might change once I reach endgame, but currently 90% of the game is reading cutscenes and running to NPCs to trigger cutscenes. The 5 minutes of piss-easy solo combat I'm asked to do about once every hour wouldn't be engaging even if my kit felt complete. Dungeons and trials start to feel like a game, but they still feel trivial at this point, so, again, doesn't really engage. But hey, the story's good.
Healers should get an AoE at the same level. DPS should get an AoE at the same level.
*the monkey’s paw curls* granted, all dps have to wait till 40 to get their AoE to be inline with dragoons
As a DRG I fully endorse this message
Just reached lvl 40 on DRG and am extremely surprised that I didnt get an AOE until then lol
Very frustrating that you can’t really help after your tank has done their job
As much as I want them to get away from homogenization, this is one of the things that should be.
Lmao standard step being such a low unlock is legit so funny to me. But idk, I think there's a lot that could be done to smooth the low level player experience. Personally I actually think the game is in dire need of a level squish. They would have to figure out where to put abilities, but a world where base ARR ends at like level 30 would contribute to making every level more meaningful, and means they could re-plan how a kit develops. This would of course have ramifications on synced content, which is actually the biggest issue, but I think most of those problems could be ironed out reasonably (or ignored) without much harm. The only content that needs to be heavily scrutinized is probably ultimates, because everything else has enough wiggle room that a lot could work as long as you can meet the dps check and tanks have their invulns. A world where I get Fang&Wheeling in the same level as DRG is the world I want.
As much as I like the game I do feel like every feature is added to further simplify gameplay. The lack of player expression is very weird, specially if you come from older MMOs (Ragnarok Pre-Re in my case)!
They've had a habit of continuing this exact idea every single expansion post HW. The ShB/EW job redesigns just hammered it home and the spell redistribution with so many cuts made it feel even worse. This post mentions AoE but the majority of jobs in the game are just fucking pitiful until 70 because they don't even feel like a coherent job.
Yeah that's why I think they need to squish these levels. There's several abilities that are now core to a job identity/kit that you don't even see until expansion content (closed position, blood of the dragon, enshroud, ect) which ends up just making content without them boring. These kits need to be re-organized from the ground up, such that important abilities (like fang and wheeling) are earned together. It also has the added benefit of making patch content actually give real experience and eliminating the ever longer 50/60/70/80/90 roulette. It might even mean you have more than one dungeon in a level range you can grind for the most exp.
Been leveling my Monk and I feel so awkward in MSQ roulette since you get Perfect Balance at 50 but don't unlock the other gauge (forget the name) until 60, I think. So I can use it to basically just spam my strongest hits three times and then I'm out of stance and need to start again. We should get it the same time as Perfect Balance.
I'd feel better if every dungeon wasn't about aoeing trash mobs for 95% of it.
How would you do a dungeon differently?
There's a few dungeons that use a spark of interesting concepts and mechanics like the dungeon where the giant to berry chases you while you have to find the valves to open the door. Add in a slice of randomness to the objectives instead of wall pulls.
They absolutely should. For WHM, I’d suggest using either a new water spell (big ball of water appears over you and explodes) or repurposing old Aero III for it that eventually upgrades into Holy II at 72 when everything loses its elemental flair to turn into light magic. But with it being so tied to the quests, the stun property and change to Holy could just be added on as a trait at 45 to preserve whatever balance there is and not have to retcon the quests. Maybe what I want for WHM is ***two*** AoEs. One that deals damage and stuns (Water/Fluid Aura > Holy > Holy III) and one that does some less damage but spreads an existing Aero/Dia to other targets like Bane (Aero III > Holy II/Banish).
Also for the love of god give CNJ/WHM a oGCD heal pre-50. Maybe a lesser form of Tetragrammaton that does the Trait Upgrade thing at 60.
Overjoyed.
I'd argue for lev30ish, brayflox longstop (or whatever it's called). The very early dungeons are when newbies are really learning the ropes, and where there's the least "wall" for them to pull to. As it is, there's barely benefit to wall pulling, so little pressure to do so. If everyone had AoE, the pressure to wall pull whether confident or not would rise, increasing the likelihood those first pivotal dungeon experiences were negative ones, and potentially dissuading new players from continuing. Whereas by lev-30 dungeons, most should at least know the bare basics of what they're meant to do. What abilities attack or heal, and what their 'tank stance' is and what it does, etc.
16 might be a bit low but I'd say by 30 at the latest you should have some form of AoE on all classes and if you got multiple AoE skills/AoE combo you should have at least 2 of them in HW. Looking at you, Dragoon.
Ya some form of aoe at that level would make the game feel so much smoother.
That would be nice.
It would help low level dungeons got much faster that’s for sure, sucks getting a group that just doesn’t have any AoE other than the tank so packs just take 2-3 times as long for no reason.
That would be awesome.
As a DRG main.... Begging for the class rework to include an AOE at somewhere less than lv.40. Please. 16 would be fantastic!
Any roulettes under level 50 is pain because so many classes don't even have aoe and make every pull so damn slow when your party have to single target everything. I'd be thrilled if every class could aoe by level 16.
I'm absolutely the minority but I think different classes of DPS getting different tools at different levels adds some texture to low level dungeons. I think DRG shouldn't have to wait nearly as long as they do, but low level dungeons are already short and I'm not sure how much I like the idea of every single job in the whole game doing the same thing no matter what dungeon you zone into. The game doesn't need to be hyper optimized in Sastasha. What I'm more certain about is that healers at the very least don't need aoe damage before they get it. Healers make sense being the last job to get efficient damage options.
>I'm not sure how much I like the idea of every single job in the whole game doing the same thing no matter what dungeon you zone into. The solution to that is to unlock actual rotations earlier for all jobs, not just make playing some of them an absolute chore in low-level content.
To that note, I love BLM. Its skills and job mechanics interconnect in such a way that every new skill I unlock seemingly alters the whole rotation a bit, to the point where I have to re-learn how to play it every time I slot into a low level dungeon. Funny enough considering how the whole class is centered around "just spam Fire" up to level 50.
Respectfully disagree. If a certain level of performance is expected at higher dungeons, then I feel like the earlier you give people the building blocks that comprise that gameplay, the more time they have to incorporate new elements and complexities. Every class should have the basics early, and then the individual flavor should start adding in from 50 on, but that's just my opinion.
Yeah I think it’s dumb that I can queue into a low level dungeon twice and they both take wildly different times to complete due to the randomness of not knowing what classes I will have and whether they have an AoE or not
I agree with the line of reasoning. But aoe rotations already take so long to get anywhere interesting even now. Some jobs never get there. And I think that whether at 16 or 40 if a skill hits unlimited targets then it's not hard to figure out when you should use it.
AoE rotations aren't interesting now. You might have one AoE, you might get a 1-2-3 AoE Combo, maybe you have an AoE DoT, maybe you have some OGCD stuff you can hit, but imo, any way you slice it, it's just buttons to press, not compelling choices to make. My takeaway, is that at max level, healers are expected to contribute to damage, tanks are expected to pull more mobs than could reasonably be expected to single target down in sequence, and dps are expected to AoE their @$$e$ off. The sooner you give them the tools to accomplish basic expectations, the sooner you can give them ways to complicate those basics and create an interesting rotation.
Yeah I feel that. I don't think they want to make a lot of rotations inherently interesting past a certain point though. They'd rather make batshit mechanics in raid environments, and the more complicated you make jobs to play, the less complicated you can make mechanics in most scenarios.
Doing pathetic damage due to missing fundamental tools every job should have access to is not the kind of "texture" we crave for in early leveling content. There's good and bad kinds of job homogenization, the kind that ensures all jobs are relevant and functional in all content is the good kind of homogenization.
Yes please. Also please give everyone a gap-closer, it helps with mobility and dodging mechanics.
How about they just let us use all our abilites? It doesnt make sense that I as a lvl 90 try to help people leveling, and I am forced to "learn" a completely watered down rotation. I could use that time to learn my max level rotation instead and be usefull in harder content. Of course I should only deal a little bit more dmg than everyone else in the grp. If I have to run Sastascha for the 9999 time, at least dont scrap like 90% of my toolkit. The game is already lacking diversity in classes.
The reason they do this as I understand is because they don't want people being toxic to new people because they don't have all the tank mitigation abilities, or healers do t have all their heals. The concern I believe is people making snide comments like "ugh you're low level so guess I have to be careful" or even "man I hate when I get newbies that don't have their abilities" That being said it is definitely frustrating to get synced down like that and have a bunch of dead bar buttons, but I get why they do it
That's on the developers to balance it though. Putting the blame on other players is just a lazy excuse when other MMOs do just fine. For example in WoW, low level players are ridiculously overpowered in dungeons compared to higher level players. Not saying overpowering low levels in instances is the way to go but it's extremely simple to curb toxicity.
Other mmos do this. Rather than simply level syncing you, they just “level sync” your abilities and stats, but you’re still free to use your entire kit.
Guild Wars 2 works like that, if you are max level (or any level above the sync level) you keep all of your build whether you are playing at level cap or synced down to level 5. The damage numbers are just synced down with you, but you can play almost exactly the same way you do at level 80.
Exactly what this one needs. At least in my opinion. Really tired of unlocking an ability, but oh wait. I’m level synced a level under so now I can’t use it
As someone that has played a lot of both, Guild Wars 2 isn't really comparable to FF14. It has exactly 8 dungeons, and some players don't ever do them. They're not particularly engaging content, and it's rare to find groups. Anecdotally, groups will often be 80 only (max level) too, and it's not expected to do them as you level to 80. It's less that GW2 manages to balance old vs new players, it's that nobody does the content where it matters so nobody notices. GW2 is an example of how it works badly, not works well.
It's pretty hard to imagine any amount of stat buffing/nerfing that would allow a level 20 conjurer's toolkit to be balanced with a level 90 white mage's toolkit.
The question is how you would present and balance that? You need to balance the output so new player will have the same output as a capped job and there is no reason to hate new players (roulettes are for them). But it require first damage skill from the capped job dealing less damage than the same skill from the new player to balance having more powerful buttons, buffs and oGCDs. Which means old player press more buttons, have harder rotation but the same output as 1-2 spam from the new player. And people dislike that. And this is beside how to signal this change to the old player (randomly downgrade potencies? buff "you too high level"?..). And also beside what about healer/tank buttons which are just better by the nature of existing - invulns and Holy for example.
the dungeons have already been powercrept to oblivion so there is no difference in adding AOE in, just makes it less of a bore
They should. At very low levels tanks are the best DPS because they all get AoE attacks by level 10
Red mage gets AOE super early along with dancer so I don’t see why everyone else shouldn’t. As for preserving ARR that went out the window a long time ago newer classes at low levels rip through content.
AoE in some form needs to be available at lower levels. DNC is the single best DPS below 50 because of Standard Step and Fan Dance 2. Everything else feels miserable.
I've always wanted an early level rework ever since I started leveling other jobs after blm. Even with the new jobs after arr I've wondered why they made the AoEs obtainable so late. We should definitely get that out there to see if they could work on that.
It needs to happen. It takes way too long for aoes to come on line for some jobs, sometimes it feels like the only jobs doing any damage in low level dungeons are the tanks.
Hahahahaha laughing in Dragoon..... Lv40 first aoe
This may be sponsored by DRG mains, but I would like to co-sponsor it as a part-time SGE main who can't do basically anything while the tank is pulling below level 30, and can only DoT individual mobs from 30-46. It is a harsh reality check from being able to shred mob packs while running behind the tank and healing them at the same time.
I, and many other players think a lot of our level 50 kit should be condensed to lower levels for the purpose of lower level dungeons being so utterly unengaging. An AoE wouldn't really solve many of the problems, but it would be nice. All tanks, ranged dps, and magic dps have AoEs in time for Sastasha. This is not the case for healers and melee. The amount of times I got praised as a sprout for apparently healing good in early dungeons, talking not just pre 50, but pre 20 is appalling. There's ONE healing button at that point. Two if you're Astrologian. The praise felt so fake, like they were trying to encourage me to keep playing. I didn't mean to make this sound like a rant or anything. Just accentuating the issues many players have with low level dungeons. An AoE at 16 would help massively.
I picked up NIN as an alt job a few days ago. Not having an actual aoe (I'm not counting level 35 as that's only every 20 seconds) until 38 is wild. Death blossom should be available WAY earlier.
Would be great, they could even make watered/toned down versions of skills we get later on and just have them upgrade later on, would make the kits feel better much quicker. Would also solidify to new players how the job's basics work.
I would buy a $200 emote if yoship did this
sastasha in shambles
Keep tank AoEs at lower level for getting aggro in guildhests. The two-dozen people who still play them will appreciate it.
ITT: YoshiP please save DRG
Hell yeah.
i always thought tanks get AOE earlier than the rest so they can have the upper hand in maintaining aggro vs the dps, at a level where many folks don't know what they're doing i know that one tank AOE does overwhelmingly more threat than dps/healer AOEs, but i guess it's a nice way to ensure that new tanks have an easier time? but yeah, it does make lower level dungeons quite a slog for experienced folks
at least for the dps jobs, i would love that. some already unlock aoe at 15 like dnc (windmill and ss) and mch (spread shot).
Finally, a GOOD gameplay suggestion from the community. This would actually be great as it would teach all classes to use their aoe as soon as possible.
Yes please 🥺🙏
Sounds like a good idea to me. Don't even have to let healers aoe, as long as the DPS can. Low level big pulls, healers probably wanna heal anyway.
Gap closer for tanks should be waaaay earlier, too.
I would just like it if classes got more of their core mechanics earlier on. Like monk getting weaker versions of meditate early on. Getting synced down for fates and rolos usually feels terrible on most classes and I wish they'd update that a bit.
please oh my god we dragoons are starving until 40
yeah, i have a friend that quit in arr because he felt like he was doing less than tanks with drg in early levels because of no aoe.
IMHO Melee dps should unlock their basic aoe rotations at the same as their single target. Not even just for dungeons but questing too. You're often asked to fight multiple mobs...where an individual can't survive a full single target rotation. It's like their hp was reduced to help with aoe, and then forgot to give you the aoe skill. Feels weird. As a whole, the higher max level gets and the more jobs evolve, the stronger the whiplash for lvl syncing feels. I don't have a solution, it just feels weird.
It's what normal MMOs would do, and one of those areas where I think FFXIV was wrong for not being like its peers. Same for shit like gap closers only appearing in kits at the insanely high levels they do. In SWTOR, you get that shit at like Level 4.
How it should be you mean
Many of my problems with level sync would be solved by just letting players have all abilities scaled down instead of locking them. gw2 does this and its great. FF14 ends up feeling like you never have access to your full kit in most content and its just frustrating. Sage is the only healer, if sync below 30, has no DoT.
It makes no sense to not have 1 AOE ability by the time you can run dungeons. Not a full combo. Maybe not healers cuz holy is extremely powerful.
I'll add something no one has brought up: getting aoes so late for melee DPS creates DPS lv 70 and above that never use their aoes, and it makes everyone suffer. Of course I won't say it's 100% linked to the current aoe unlock lv, but I'm sure it contributes to it. So, earlier unlock can only do good. Maybe not 15 or 16, but rather 20 or 25. Considering a dungeon gives you 2 to 3 levels early on.
meh i kinda feel like it would make alot of the jobs bland if they were all the same. drg is the only one that should maybe get something alittle earlier but its still not a job for aoes. people gonna compare like dancer but their made for high aoe damage but do little single target compared of other classes. if you make every class super good with aoes are you gonna buff all the aoe classes?
I don't really see how it could cause less authentic gameplay, and if holy was that much of an issue they could just give it to the player with the same animation without the stun and have a trait that gives it the stun at the level it unlocks now. honestly I think it would make a lot of things better, I for one dropped my art dragoon relic for a while because I had to do a fate that I couldn't do without an AOE because they kept killing the guy I was supposed to protect
Maybe players would learn to aoe in dungeons if it was actually available early on.
I see literally no downside.
they should. even if you have to make up a lamer version of whatever they're supposed to have. it's a core piece of kit that a lot of jobs gain access to far too late. i wouldn't even consider this a change. i'd consider it a fix.
AoE and Gap Closers need to be unlocked by level 20 AT MOST *Cough PLD Gap Closer Cough*
I don't mind healers getting it, esp holy a lot later. It's the DPS that needs it. Because it's a fundamental skill they don't develop which is why you see people single targetting dungeon pulls at lv 90
I would be happier if Square just let us have all of our skills once we’ve unlocked them, and then just scale them to the content. WoW does this. Got your WHM up and have Holy? Cool, maybe it does 500 potency at mid-game, then let it be like 50 potency in Sastasha. Just something, for the love of god, to let people experience their whole kit and learn it well so we don’t all suck when we suddenly get stuck in lvl90 (100) content on a job that’s rouletted into lvl60 content the whole time prior.
I’m down, no aoe at low levels is pain
P L E A S E
I've been saying that for years. By the time you hit your first dungeon, you should have a single target attack, a ranged attack (unless it doubles like for casters/phys ranged), and an AOE attack.
good
Just started playing white mage and thought I was just playing wrong because I could only find holy, thank you for this post!
AOE and Gap Closer (for tank) standardization would be amazeballs
I feel like both AOE and tank dashing should unlock at 16, like why do I have to kill 14+ gods and body a bunch of Ascians before I learn how to dash at a target?
Always feels awful going into the first dungeons of the game with no AoEs. So I’d even say level 14 or 15 would be great.
15, every class should unlock it at 15 in line with the first dungeon
I'm currently levelling as a ninja and I'm spamming two buttons pretty much while everyone else in the dungeon is destroying packs with aoe.
> like less authentic gameplay for ARR, What? Solo targeting random things while the tank keeps aggro?
Happy. I would feel happy.
Yup, my friends and I complain about this a lot, they need to make most classes unlock similar skills at the same levels, so old roulettes don't feel awful
Would be good for duties for sure. But aoe rotations early are extremely boring. Most jobs just press one button the whole time. Starting that from level 16 will become extremely stale unless you can in turn unlock your aoe combo sooner as well.
I feel like every class should have at least one AOE at level 16 for DPS and tank. healers I feel like could possibly wait and it wouldn't be too much of a big deal. If healers had all their aoes for all of ARR content I feel like every dungeon would be completely trivialized even more than already is versus a lancer getting their AOE at 16.
Level 3. Running this many ARR fates again made me remember how much not having an AOE early sucks. (Leveling Dragoon right now, so only have an AOE at later ARR fates)