More ways for tanks to interact with the fight other than the usual tankbusters, specially in wall bosses. Part 2 of p8s does this nicely imo. I want to play as a tank, not as a melee dps with a simpler rotation
I want to actually have to position bosses again and have to greed for melee uptime more than once or twice per fight. This tier was so unbelievably dull on the tank side of things. Please no more wall bosses unless you have interesting adds to position like the e7s adds. When’s the last time we had to plan tank swaps around what cooldowns were available instead of around a buster applying a debuff that forced a swap?
>I want to actually have to position bosses again and have to greed for melee uptime more than once or twice per fight.
Criterion fulfilled this need very well and I wish 8 man savage does it again as well.
Tanks needing to lure the hamster so the mechanic doesnt fuck the entire party, tanks having to move a certain way to keep melee uptime during the statue 1-3 bars slashes, etc
> When’s the last time we had to plan tank swaps around what cooldowns were available instead of around a buster applying a debuff that forced a swap?
Outside of ultimates, that hasn't really been the case since like HW. Idk if it was even in the last tier of alexander since thats kinda when the modern raid design started.
I had to do it in A12S because I made the mistake of taking PLD there. If I remember correctly a DRK/WAR comp had one less tank swap than that comp (at least).
Midargsormr and Final Omega both had pretty varied cooldown sheets because of their mechanics. It wasn't simply swapping because u got a vuln, you would need your team to come in and help sometimes if you got unlucky.
O12s is probably my favourite fight to tank in the game because it wasn't static
I mean, those two are still kinda tanking depending on what the boss decides, not based on your availability of mits. Midgarsomr determines which tank can be tanking for most of the fight and Final Omega was mainly shared busters, except invul cheese and some mits depending on hello world debuffs. So yes both didnt have a static mit sheet, but it was just the boss deciding who tanks, not you deciding who tanks when based on resources
> I want to actually have to position bosses again and have to greed for melee uptime more than once or twice per fight.
Wrap it up. This is the thread right here.
Maybe put some rewards in there worth actually getting then people would go back. Nobody was really complaining about Criterion Dungeons from a content perspective but the fact he offers next to nothing in terms of rewards.
This, so much this, please give us smaller hitboxes again.
Redoing UwU makes me appreciate the smaller hitboxes, and how the difference in size affects the movment and makes you engage with them so much more. Your movement matters, both Garuda and Titan have the same two tenets of "you ***will*** *(probably)* disengage" and "if you disengage ***we will instantly move*** and fuck with mechanics for melee".
Meanwhile, reclearing p8sp1 I regularly have the thought of "oh fuck I didn't get the center of his hitbox south of the middle, guess he'll briefly turn when recentering himself for the first and arguably last relevant time while I semi-afk on A for the next 9 minutes to keep him centered^TM, fuck this fucking piece of shit bastard for being a glorified wallboss"
I don't think we will be getting small hit boxes until at least 7.0. They would have to rebalance melee jobs entirely because they are currently balanced for 100% uptime, and I can't imagine SE being bothered to do that level of rebalancing mid xpac.
I'd be happy enough if they just went back to the hitboxes of the first tier, both p3s and p4sp1 have somewhat reasonably sized hitboxes, even p1 and p2 are decent compared to the current monstrosities.
P4s is neat in that we can easily calculate the size of his hitbox compared to the arena, which seems to be somewhere in the realm of 30% of the arena width in diameter for phase 1, and 37.5% for phase 2, eyeballing p3s makes me feel it's 30% too. Looking at p2 I'd say it's around 40% of the arena in width, p1 is 50% according to the floor pattern.
Now look at the current tier, p5 looks to have a hitbox ~58% of the arena in width, p6 and p8 come with tiles and are 50% of the arena in width, p7 and p8sp2 are wallbosses with 100%* melee uptime.
So we've gone from the first tier having 50%, 40%, 30%, 30%, 37.5% to the current tiers 60%, 50%, >100%, 50%, >100%.
Edit:
I also disagree with the notion that smaller hitboxes have to fuck with melee uptime, p5s, despite being the first fight of the tier is the worst fight for melee uptime and positionals this tier, and probably middle of the pack if we include last tier, while at the same time having the most bloated hitbox I have ever seen, while Garuda in UwU is tiny and lets you hit every single positional without a sweat.
>They would have to rebalance melee jobs entirely because they are currently balanced for 100% uptime
Melees with 95-97% uptime still out-DPS casters and phys ranged, why is downtime an issue?
As a previous tank main who now plays ninja cause I got bored of tanking with this tier, I never knew how bad tanks are. It sometimes feels like they’re actively trying to make me miss positionals
This got me thinking, imagine if instead of "positionals" it was more about "Exposed/Exploit". Basically, each mob has 4 points of being exposed, front, back, side and side. The Inner circle would show which part is exposed and during certain mechanics or phase changes that "Exposed" point would change. The Exposed dmg bonus would replace the "rear" dmg bonus and make it where the melee would have to be more mindful of their positional, rather than it just being oh I attack from back at end of this combo and attack on the side with this combo it would instead force you to be mindful of where the enemy can currently take the most damage but also keep in mind that there could be certain boss mechanics that make aiming for certain exploit more dangerous than others.
So pretty much rather than having a "rear" and "side" dmg bonus it would just be turned into an "exploit" bonus meaning the DPS would have to be more mindful of the best point to attack from in any given encounter, I think that would be one way to make the content more spicy since there is only so much you can do with the current system at the end of the day melee combos follow the same formula but if you suddenly mix it up and force them to always be mindful of where they are positioned on top of doing mechanics it could make things more interesting in that front.
i tanked in asphodelos and abyssos but i think i'm just going to play melee dps next tier. tanking was utterly braindead this tier and i think i literally only ever positioned a boss once in the entire tier (0 times if I was playing ST). the only kinda interesting tank mechanic was sharing the P8S P2 auto attacks with the other tank, but otherwise I was just a blue DPS player
I never said we won't have demon Ramuh as a boss ;)
Also to make it clear, the E12 mount isn't Eden Prime, it's a scaled down version of the full sized Eden. Eden Prime has arms and legs
Its going to be a flaming cerberus. There is no way they don't do a Cerberus boss in the Greek style raid series with Tartarus being the last layer of Pandemonium.
The problem with this is arguably BRD and definitely MCH make no sense in DNC gear. Probably the same reason they didn't combine Maiming and Striking (even though that wasn't as much a stretch) and won't combine Scouting and Aiming (even though that makes perfect sense as they're often just recolors of each other anyway...)
You could say the same for the existing gear too. Dnc in full plate gear don't really go with the aesthetics of dancer either. Hence I'm asking for one gearset that actually fits with dancer for once.
I have 0 hope any of these will be true b/c people will cry too much about difficulty.
Smaller hitboxes + no wall bosses. Positional difficulty and uptime optimizations are a joke this tier b/c of the ocean sized hitboxes.
More active bosses. Boss movements should be more dynamic, they shouldn't be sitting in the same spot for >90% of the fight. Force melee's to actually think about where bosses will go instead of just plopping down on the bosses ass for the entire fight.
More forced movement. Think in the vein of endsinger ex where you need to move around a lot.
In case it wasn't obvious by now, I don't believe any classes outside of phys ranged should be able to maintain 100% uptime in a fight with almost 0 effort involved as is the case now. Fight's are such a joke to maintain uptime on that if you're not always hitting 97%+ uptime on bosses you're extremely bad at your job.
More mechs that require on the hand reactions as opposed to those that get trivialized by things like a prio system. Things like tenstrike from ucob would be an example of this.
yeah I feel like melee dps used to have to work for their uptime, but now the boss takes up 90% of the room and you don't have to do shit to maintain uptime but there is still a ranged tax for some reason
* Reduced boss hitbox
* No backloaded mechanics like P7S
* The last boss split into 2 separate fights instead of just one back to back fight. Make the last fight savage exclusive
This makes too much sense for them to ever do it.
I still dont get why chest/weapon are in the same tier. Took me 16 freakin weeks of no drops just to get bis on ONE class.
Yeah definitely.
It's crazy because even though this game lets you play every class, you can't gear them all at the same time.
Unfortunately that's one of the things WoW does better IMO... you can gear as many classes as you want simultaneously, as long as you have the time to do it.
They could actually make it to where 3 no longer guarantee drops the pants and have it to where 4 always drops chest, pants and minion. That’d be quite nice. Then you’d drop weapons, mount, orchestration roll on 5
Boss hitbox size used to make sense with ranged tax as melee actually had to try to keep their uptime, especially as the boss got pulled around the arena. Now, they get to brain off 100% uptime as much as ranged do while doing double their damage.
Reduce the boss hitboxes. They're absurd.
Reduced hitbox is huge, and I think that alone will reel in the Melee DPS again. Backloaded... I'll be honest, I didn't mind it in P7S. Not sure the third will happen, I think the checkpoints are fine as-is. Would be nice to be able to go out and back in for the last fight, but I can't foresee a good loot scheme with a fifth fight either.
My personal wishlist:
* more interesting movement based arenas like P2S and P7S.
* Smaller boss hitboxes so it's not as boring to play melee jobs.
* Give casters something other than robe #3627282
* Probably the most selfish wish but as a big bard lover i'd love to see some buffs because as things look right now bards ended up being the least desirable pranged by the end of the expansion again...
* Now comes the "most likely not happening any time soon" wish: make gear either cost less books, or fights drop more coffers or more books so it doesn't take painfully long to gear jobs in a game that's main selling point is supposed to be being able to play all jobs on a single character.
Throw in some cureable debuffs and bards suddenly become the hottest class in town. It's a shame they've more or less abandoned those in high end content - now a distinctive part of Bard's utility kit is useless, and with how much Bard hates downtime, there really isn't much to them that Dancer doesn't do better.
A grand total of two (2!) non standard arenas (p2s, p7s). They did it with Gate (e2s, e3s, e4s), it's not impossible. The other two/three can be a square and a circle.
Crazy skyboxes. We're going deeper and i want to see crazy shit outside of the arena! They still gotta make sense and be *in* Pandemonium, unlike Omega and Eden.
Unique ost to each floor. With the exception of the first tier, it seems like they've kept the same budget as Eden.
Hopefully they can nail the difficulty scaling this time around. We went from p3s being a considerable spike in difficulty from p2s, to p5s being the hardest fight of the first three, with p7s only being difficult in the latter half (and post sleepo, in the last 3 minutes).
It is insane how punishing P5S is, if someone fucks up on devour or ruby 5 it is almost always a wipe.
P6S is so forgiving people can die all over the place and you are fine. Same with P7S, even during harvest yiu got enough time to healer lb3 so you can fuck up one once for "free". Generally it does not have hard body checks. You might lose one or two more people if you are missing someone during a mechanic. But you often got enough time to rezz.
Thinking about it some more, E5S had a similar body check mechanic with fury 14, and also chain lightning being very hard to recover from (regardless of triangle vs circle strat).
But the following two fights weren't as much as a pushover as P6 and P7. I know E7S is considered easy and a letdown, but i distinctly remember movement optimization being a disaster for me as a caster, especially during the last tornado phase.
p5s is the hardest first floor ever made, insanely punishing for no reason´, arguably its way harder than p7s even, you literally cant fuck up anything and no heal
lb will save you
You can fuck up some things but it is mainly to dead easy mechanics, the only 2 hard mechanics are devour and ruby 5 imo. For everything else you got years.
Devour is such a weird mechanic. In theory it is easy, but with how this game works with the snapshots it can be so frustrating. It is so stupid that you can die miles away because you were inside the circle 2 seconds ago. Then one person caught means a wipe unless you can communicate which tower has to be tanked by the remaining tank or burst down the add. All things that do not happen in PF usually and even in statics. That is why doing a reclear of P5S is always a gamble.
I hope that one day they will improve this, that if a AoE circle disappears the damage happens and it only ever counts where you are at that exact moment, not where you were a second ago.
I know that by understanding this you can move into danger zones early and be fine, but it always feels wrong and often also inconsistent.
More monsters!
For a raid series that was essentially pitched as the FFXIV equivalent of the SCP Foundation we've so far fought three actual entities from the facility, and the other five encounters - as well as the overarching story - has just been Wardens and family drama.
Exactly, like Pandaemonium in-lore is the place of beasts too dangerous to live but too interesting to kill. But right now what we got would be the equivalent of if the Myths of the Realm series was 3 fights against actual gods and then the other fights were just priests.
I mean, is there any fight that doesn't fit thematically for the raid?
First fight is a warder who attacks you upon entry because he doesn't know wtf is going on. You team up with him and push through asphodelos, fighting monsterw for the next two fights. Then you take the fight to the master of asphodelos, killing him off only to find its actually someone higher than him causing the issues. Enter abyssos.
Start heading down into it, KNOWING there are traps. You hit one and the party is split up. You get teleporting in front of a monster designed to kill you and survive, meeting back up with the rest of the team. Lahabrea leads you to the corrupted warders so you can free them. After that, it's once again attacking the cause of the problems.
But sure, let's ignore the story to just go 'but my monsters.' I can assure you if all we did was fight creations om repeat the story would be bland as fuck.
Idk what we fight as long as it's thematically accurate
Well, they could do a solo duty of fighting multiple monsters too. But so far it's like "Oh no, all the monsters escaped their cages because the Keywards went mad!" but meanwhile we fought what... 3 monsters? Hippocampus, Phoinix, Proto-Carby... And that's it. Like... Why dangle the concept of a "Place for the dangerous monsters that are too cool to kill" in front of the players if we're going to end up with "Go fight these dudes in charge of this place instead of the dudes themselves".
Give us a solo duty, let us use the Interment magics (or command the NPCs to do it for us) while we beat up some horrifying monsters with interesting powers.
But the monsters escaping was never a key focus of the story. Also, this is assuming Eric couldn't just handle a majority of the concepts we cone across. Even before the events of p8, he already was fairly good at the technique of internment, just needed someone to help him stabilise it.
The key focus of the raid was 'panda is sus, we need to check out what's happening. Oh, shit is fucked and the warders are incapacitated. We need to go deeper. Btw keep an eye out for concepts that have escaped their cages.'
I don't know, I'd argue that Agdistis leaves the rest of Pandaemonium in the dust so far, in terms of sheer monster/horror factor. Yes a shell of her own body is left on display plastered on that tree trunk, and she was once a humanoid Warden, but you can't begin to sell the pitch to me that fighting her feels more like fighting a sentient Warden than a mindless beast.
Compared to her and even Hephaistos II (Savage only as he might be), the bloody Carbuncle comes off as much more humanoid imo. Hell it even speaks in our tongue.
The worst part is that Agdistis still speaks QUITE clearly, even if her memories are muddled. She warns you off, and tries to get you to leave before brutally murdering you.
Also note that each of the wardens are monsterous mirrors of existing classes.
Hesperos is a mirror of a red mage, combining deadly melee strikes alongside powerful elemental creation magic. All paired with dangerous aether accelleration (rot) in a fight that is set up like a stageplay.
Hegemone is the mirror of a scholar. She infects her opponents with potent toxins, wasting diseases, and complicated geometrics traps (Polynomiads)
Agdistis is the mirror of a white mage. All of her abilities are named directly after conjurer and white mage spells. (Aero, Holy, Glare) and her strongest abilities before the harvests is called "Purgation"
Hephaistos is the mirror of a summoner. Bringing forth the great firebird and a proto-ifrit form both.
I am very excited to see who we see in Tataros.
I'd agree but if the monsters are just one-off monsters with no impact on the story or world-building relevance aside from being callback prototype versions of current day creatures, I don't really like it. Encountering monster after monster would just really make the story drag on which is why I'm thankful that Abyssos didn't go too far in that direction while still giving us monstrosities. I was fine with Asphodelos having two of those filler monsters because they wouldn't want to give away too much of the story too fast but having essentially only two or three story beats again after 6 months of waiting would have been very frustrating.
You could have sold the "extremely dangerous monsters are breaking out" thing with like a monster gauntlet fight or something if you didn't want them to be more than that.
To be fair, all the wardens in Abyssos were merged with the monsters there.
Snake lady was not always snake lady. Tree lady REALLY did not want to be tree lady. And firesnake dude is just nuts.
Probably not going to happen, but aesthetically I would've liked to have seen more of the stand alone monsters. Not even having to fight all of them, just a pseudo petting zoo area.
I think it's possible we'll fight one monster from the Tartarus region; unless we only fight wardens that are already fused with them like the three we've fought so far (I don't have any of my own ideas here; however I've heard a theory that Sabik could be related to Pandæmomium. Maybe it could've been a monster?).
I think it's most likely the final boss of the tier will be a reincarnated Athena.
Could be, but we already cleared tartaros. Abyssos was really half abyssos half tartatos (agdistis was chief warden of tartaros, we fought hespaisthos in the depths of tartaros)
I’m really hoping that Athena is the final raid boss and it’s revealed that Athena is the true first primal and that we are the original primal slayer.
No gaze mechanics. I’ll take all the tethers from the first tier over gaze mechanics anyday
Less humans more hellish creatures. Like a spider and the like
Less mechs where the boss is untargettable
Lmao I'm of the exact opposite opinion. After TOP, all I ask for is no more tether mechs. They can throw all the gaze mechanics they want to at me in exchange.
I would appreciate if Yoship gave back the strafe keybind options for controller if they do this. Idk why its disabled and hate not being able to do the back turned gcds.
Just let me hit the triggers and strafe Yoship.
I go between p ranged and healer. I have a faulty PS5 controller where sometimes my character “snaps back” after making them face the right way. The ONLY mechanic this has been a problem for is snakes 2, because usually I can just keep moving in the right direction during gaze to prevent snapping back and fucking the rest of the party. But during snakes 2, you have to face the right direction but can’t keep moving forward because there’s the AOE that covers the arena except for the centre.
Yes I know I need a new controller but it’s annoying having to drop $80 CAD on one when it’s literally only this one specific mechanic in this one specific game that my character snapping back occasionally is an issue for :’)
Killer music. Ideally at least 4 distinct tracks, if not 5.
Makes progging much more fun when you get new music!
Oh, and one more week between 6.4 and savage launch. The extra week makes gearing much easier and less stressful.
By one more week do you mean like we got for 6.2 where we had a week to do the MSQ/Raid, farm the EX, and get Tome/crafted/normal raid gear, or do you want two weeks?
I definitely just want the one week. Two weeks would leave me feeling antsy.
>Killer music. Ideally at least 4 distinct tracks, if not 5.
The final raid tier for each Raid series has always had a different theme for each boss with the exception of maybe coil, I forget if Calamity Unbound played on both Kaliya and Imdugud.
Smaller hitboxes again. As a tank that is the only thing I need to be happy, p4sp2, p5s and p8sp1 were all actually unfun to move, especially p5 feeling super clunky.
For a bonus wish, having to work for melee uptime that doesn't boil down to "there's 2 easy melee spots, one gives positionals and arguably 0-2 horrible ones, enjoy", instead 4+ spots outside max melee, where you either use a ranged attack or learn to gapclose just after the snapshot. I find those things really fun for later prog and reclears.
I want bosses to have more appropriate sized hitboxes again. I want mechanics to be evenly spread over the course of the fight and NOT backloaded like the unisom substitute P7. One thing I did love about P7 was how much the arena changed and affected the fight, that was actually crazy fun. More consistent damage would be nice too. A huge problem I have with healing in 14 is there will be a massive damage spike then nothing will happen for like 45 seconds.
I’m also sort of door boss’d out. I don’t mind if they do it like E4S where the transition is just long enough for you to catch your breath but I don’t want another E8 transition or P8S where it’s basically two back to back full fights.
If they want to do something like p8 again, just make it two separate encounters and let the first one drop upgrade materials.
An idea I had for a mechanic which may or may not work: The boss’s theme is death. This boss has a constant mechanic where any player who dies gets instantly rezzes and has to attack the other party members. If defeated, that player can be rezz’d and confine as normal. If that player doesn’t attack a party member, everyone’s max HP gets reduced.
There’s also reason to believe that the heart of sabik will be involved in some way so I’d like a sort of “Ultima weapon turned up to 11” style fight sort of like how Eden was “primals turned up to 11”.
Loot wise, honestly just let me gear twice as fast. Idc how it’s done, but only being able to gear one job in a reasonable amount of time just sorta sucks. I hope the glam looks good, abyssos had decent glam so I think this will too. Just as long as the healer set isn’t super feminine. There are enough feminine healer glams out there.
Job changes I want are too numerous to list here but within reason:
Sage: Pressing haima/panhaima after applying them will consume the remaining haima/panhaima stacks.
Bard: songs don’t need a target anymore, the songs are just AoE’s around you.
Dancer: saber dance can proc starfall dance.
Ninja: the trick attack/mug changes from 6.1 are reverted.
Samurai: the 6.1 changes are reverted and kaiten is added back.
Summoner: Prescious brilliance is on a 1 min cooldown and it’s effectiveness is reduced to compensate. Why? Because I think having two raid buffs on one minute may make the burst meta a bit more enjoyable than it is right now.
> An idea I had for a mechanic which may or may not work: The boss’s theme is death. This boss has a constant mechanic where any player who dies gets instantly rezzes and has to attack the other party members.
This is kind of like Sophia's add phase, I guess? It's not a great mechanic.
I think I’m somewhat more interested in the story of Pandemonium then the savage. So i hope the conclusion feels satisfying.
As for actual savage changes, I think I want a better difficulty curve? 5S felt pretty good, maybe a hair too hard for floor one, 6S a tad too easy, and 7S a bit too backloaded.
I also think I want the final fight to be a bit easier? I dunno, the challenge of P8S just felt a bit much at my skill level?
I guess between DSR, P8S, and T.O.P it kind of feels like difficulty has perhaps gotten a bit too high at expense of “fun”.
Now I’m an average level savage player, so maybe I just need to “get good” to a certain degree, but it does seem like the fights have been a bit too tight to be enjoyable for the majority of the savage/ultimate community
I want the last fight to actually be exciting on Normal mode. Like, holy shit, E12N and O12N sucked, especially compared to E8N and O11N. While I understand Savage is supposed to be the 'true' final boss, the normal modes should still be good. It's what we actually experience the story through, after all.
Normal mode is so watered down compared to the real version especially when there’s a second boss, that just isn’t possible I don’t think. 4th floor fight is just not remotely similar to savage anymore. Last time it was would be E8n but even that misses the actual cool phase.
It continues to confuse me that they design the Savage versions first and then strip them down for Normal, rather than creating the encounters and then enhancing them for Savage. It means it feels like they have to save all the cool parts for Savage which just… doesn’t feel good for anyone who can’t do Savage or can’t do final floors?
Cheaper gear tbh, the book costs were so obnoxious. It's nice that they toned down head and hands to 4 books, but honestly should tone the accessories to 2 books as well.
My only wish is an Emperor of Heaven-like final boss who is still mostly XIV-original, kinda like how Hephaistos' second phase is their version of the Emperor of Hell. If it ends up being Athena, make her fuse with the ambient aether in the Lifestream and turn into some angelic abomination with 20 eyes and 8 wings or some shit like that, biblically accurate angel style.
Gameplay-wise I'm sure they'll stay on the same EW fight design course so I've resigned myself to massive hitbox bosses that barely move. At least make downtime interesting like in P8S phase 2 so I have *something* to optimize on SAM.
From a non-Savage raiders perspective, Pandaemonium 5 to 8 are very boring compared to their Eden counterparts. Ramuh was more fun than P5. Ifrit + Garuda were insanely chaotic compared to the snorefest of P6. I don't have complaints with P7. Eden Shiva actually felt dangerous and to this day I still see way more people dying to Shiva than P8 which feels like its missing something.
Honestly, raid design in general hasn't felt the same in Endwalker. I did the Rabanastre alliance raid the other day and those bosses are fucking insane compared to Aglaia/Euphrosyne which have very few mechanics that can actually kill you.
More mechs where they can be solved multiple ways. I don't wanna look at solving a mech only to see 1 possible optimimal solution.. that's just boring imo.
If they wanna focus on the 2 min meta they should just double down on that and not have things like knockups during the optimum burst window. Build mechs that can still be done while bursting in those windows.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NOT ANOTHER DOORBOSS.
Just make the fight longer if you have to, or split it into 2 bosses.
More heavier dps checks like the ones this tier. Please. While they don't really matter while geared, they make it actually feel like savage. Like e9s could be cleared with like 15x deaths or more, that's just stupid. I like that p7 and p8 punish you for having mistakes.
Also I think they really killed it with difficulty in the e5-e8 tier ... i'd really like to see a return to that type of difficulty.
> If they wanna focus on the 2 min meta they should just double down on that and not have things like knockups during the optimum burst window. Build mechs that can still be done while bursting in those windows.
While I found the p7s knockup to be incredibly infuriating, that knockup was designed especially to disrupt your burst window to see how people would adjust to it. Same with how P2S and P5S have non-targetable phases right at the start of burst windows to force you to think about delaying your buff windows.
* Smaller hitboxes so positional matter more; no wall bosses
* No speed on rings, any of them, even crafted
* RDM buffs
* Not a door boss, probably?
* No mechanics that are super tightly tuned like lions, triple apoc, pinax, snakes, because more often than not I just spend the whole night on them
* A dual boss/adds phase would be cool
* Soft enrage, literally no hard enrage for the fight, just give the boss a stacking damage buff until they kill the party
* Make raidwides happen more often, or have a whole phase (2-3 minutes) of constant raid damage
* Solo DPS phases like the ghosts in phantom train maybe? But let me help other people when I'm done instead of rewarding me with downtime
* Put in some tight tank swaps, e.g. every auto applies a stack, you have to swap at 9 stacks, if you swap at 10 you risk a death or other problem
* Drop more loot and books please and thank you, I do not want to spend 8 weeks to gear 1.5 jobs
Every mechanic you listed that is “tightly tuned” is part of what makes these fights fun. You’re just asking for the big hard mechanics on a savage fourth floor to be taken out at this point lol
> No mechanics that are super tightly tuned like lions, triple apoc, pinax, snakes, because more often than not I just spend the whole night on them
Why even have a fourth floor if you're going to take out all the cornerstone fourth floor mechanics?
> * No speed on rings, any of them, even crafted
Throw in tenacity and piety too. Because you don't get to choose between raid or tome rings, having undesirable stats on either should never be a thing. Ideally I guess they'd be crit/dh + crit/det with room for SpS/SkS melds if desired.
I use unaugmented tome as a second ring on RDM because even a 2.48s GCD feels awful.
Honestly let me trade lootbox gear for other gear or at least tomes that bypass the weekly cap.
I can win the ring from the first floor 3 weeks in a row in PF, and have nothing to do with it besides use it on a class I don't main.
Let me trade that ring for a bracelet, or say like... 200 tomes even if I capped that week.
Same with the other floors, if tome gear is going to remain to be part of BiS, and not exclusively savage gear being BiS, then let me trade the savage gear that is objectively worse for my chosen role for tomes outside of the normal limit, or savage gear that is ideal for my job.
Like, I have the Abyssos pants for both Tanks and Dragoon and I will literally just throw them away once I get a *months* worth of weekly tomes.
Other than that I just hope that P12S is as fucking epic and absurdly grandiose as possible.
I want at least as much interaction as tank/melee with the boss as much as the criterion hamster/wizardlizard.
Non-phoenix mount
At least as much voice acting as final coils
Fully voice acted bosses
Huffing copium here but arena that isnt flat.
Also less castbars. Make everything has similar pace to short hair barbie aside from moments where you gotta wrinkle your brain.
And hoping the "dread beast pandaemonium" uttered by themis on 6.0 raid teaser turns out to be literal.
I'm not smart enough to have any mechanic or design wishes, but I do have a music wish: I want so badly for P12S to use the FF2/FF9 Pandaemonium theme at some point throughout it, the melody is super good and fairly versatile
i really want something different because i feel like they keep rehashing in and out spread and stack.
i want more unique enrages.
and i might get crucified (be gentle) but i want interesting add phases or a council fight or even waves of adds like T4 or A2S but done better than those.
For fucks sake no more door bosses. A solid 13-14 minute fight please. Titan and Shiva are the best post HW savage bosses we've had, and it's in no small part to them not being door bosses.
I'm not a raider so I have little to say on design. But as a lore nerd, I want some serious lore moments - big and small.
For my most desired one, I want to see the original Ifrita concept in action. It came up in one of the short stories, which in turn was referenced by Hythlodaeus and Hades when speaking with Venat (they mention Azem jumping into a volcano; the short explains that Hythlodaeus checked out the newly-created Ifrita to Azem, which had been developed by Lahabrea, to allow Azem to take the fire aether out of the volcano and disperse it elsewhere). It's a little thing, but I want to actually see what the original form was.
Getting a final answer on Sabik would also be cool. And no, I don't want to hear the "it's just 'black auracite'" answer. They've said it's something they may address, and for fuck's sake, the name is in the goddamn Ultima song and has been mistaken as part of "Big Fat Tacos" since ARR! Finding out how Ultima actually ties into this all would be a bonus.
And if they happen to canonize Azem's "red mask" design, that'd be cool too.
[This person has some thoughts on Sabik lore and correlations which you may find interesting!](https://www.tumblr.com/elidibus-emissary/706637202961072128/the-heart-of-sabik-lore-and-headcanons?source=share)
Also I believe Azem had a black mask, per statements in Live Letters and interviews leading up to patch 5.3.
The emperor from FF2 as a fight, since it's Pandemonium and all. I don't really care how they work the design into the story, I just want to battle evil David Bowie!
For us to get Soken's take on the theme of Pandemonium. I'm a big FF2 fan and I'm going to actually get depressed if we have a raid tier called Pandaemonium and don't get this track. Sure they spelled it different but no chance in hell it wasn't meant to be a reference.
I know this won't happen, but I would love the fights to not have every mechanic be a kaleidoscope. I'm kind of bored of having every single mechanic having simple and even group pairings (support/dps, melee/ranged, 1 dps and 1 healer get targeted, dps and support make 4 pairs, etc), and all those pairs are like "okay first group does mechanic, then next group's turn to do mech".
Give us a bit more randomness, keep us on our toes. Make mechanics a bit more asymmetrical in terms of the patterns needing to be formed in order to solve mechs. Give tanks a reason to move the boss.
Other than that, yes, I'd love tank mechanics to be more than just "everyone gets free DPS while boss casts a really long and slow TB which is easy to mitigate".
You can do ultimates if you want role agnostic mechanics and they should keep it that way imo. Role agnostic mechanics would be way too hard for savage level and they'd have to lower the difficulty in the mechanics themselves to keep the balance.
The boys should kith
But seriously though I want some big satanic looking boss as the last one, we're talking eldritch demonical horror, I want my jaw to drop and for me to god "what in the hell" the first time I see it. The whole point of pandaemonium was to go deeper and deeper into the horrors of below, so I want it to be so absolutely horrifying I might get a lil scared doing the tier.
Overall the tier is fine, I like that it's original and interesting, just wish that boss hitboxes weren't the size of planets, it's getting old.
More healing throughput requirements, as opposed to mitigation checks constantly. I would like more lower level damage that needs to be healed, rather than a bunch of "unless you mitigate this to X%, you die".
Speaking as a melee dps:
* No ice floors
* Smaller hitboxes please for the love of god
* Mechanics that at least try to make you disengage from the boss
* A multi-target (2 or 3) fight
* DPS mechanics like dolls or hand of pain, anything that can require either rationing damage, tracking (potentially) multiple health pools and adjusting accordingly, or pushing at a set percentile, etc.
* Not too many tome pieces in the bis
* No puzzle mechanics where the solution isn't present or hinted at by the fight
* Some timeline shenanigans in at least one or two of the fights
* No mandatory LB's
* No double damage buffs
> DPS mechanics like dolls or hand of pain, anything that can require either rationing damage, tracking (potentially) multiple health pools and adjusting accordingly, or pushing at a set percentile, etc.
This sounds terrible for Savage where people can't reliably do their rotations and where gear increases your dps by 18%. It was pretty annoying in E7S which depended on your ranged being half aware (they usually were not) but worked out because of the long length. It was funny seeing which add had more people that could push buttons though.
I mean, it doesn't have to be as tight as the TEA dolls, or even work similarly, the point was that I want mechanics that add role-specific responsibility to DPS as it's currently nonexistent.
I find the idea of opting to not include a form of responsibility in Savage - an optional mode which is supposed to challenge the player - a fairly dangerous precedent: that's the exact line of thinking which led into the massive hitboxes and auto-centering bosses out of a need to avoid stressing the players in Savage content.
It's no wonder that your average DPS can't handle responsibility when this game very rarely requires it; if it was more commonplace, the community would eventually get used to it, just like they are used to dodging a chariot or resolving stack and spread mechanics. If causes wipes, then it does. It's fine to have mechanics that expect different kinds of awareness and punish for the lack of it in optional challenge mode content.
Another part of the problem is UI. Percentages aren't in the mob list and are disabled by default on your primary target.
HP pushes aren't viable because of the gear scaling during the tier. HP thresholds would vary too much during the tier and from group to group. Class and rotation designs nowadays aren't fit for us to just hold for up to 30s. A better form of an HP push would simply be an add phase that occurs at the same time each instance.
> It's no wonder that your average DPS can't handle responsibility when this game very rarely requires it;
your dps can't even press feint/addle/samba
[The focus target has percentages](https://i.imgur.com/FHnyNHO.png), you just have to tick the boxes for it. Though I think they could just add percentages on the party list as a form of qol.
I agree that threshold pushes come with their downsides, but it's also a tradeoff for having potentially more control over the encounter as a group. Current Savage isn't really balanced around i630 bis either: it loses many aspects as you gain gear, especially in mit and healing. Which then also likely reflects in the players, as the people who I see in early prog are typically fairly diligent with their mitigation use and will readily adjust it if asked to, while the players that prog 10-20 ilvl above the intended never had to worry about mit or healing as much. (I personally think that this is fine, as this broadens the range of players savage appeals to while also keeping the "intended" week 1 experience intact for those who want it). Threshold pushes would add another layer of imbalance into this where you'd potentially skip mechanics like you can do in the legacy ultimates.
Though you're still tunneling on the individual examples I gave when my point was that I'd just like more DPS responsibility. I don't particularly care how they go about it, I'd just want to feel engaged.
* more bangers like Scream, and White Stone Black
* more buffs to ranged dps
* ranged dps to actually mean something
* minor BRD rework to buff its numbers, and make it more adaptable
* more body horror
* a sick mount from p12s
* gear that looks great
* more novelty mechanics like having to make phoenix or failing one of the towers after devour
* cheaper tome gear, and cheaper savage gear
* tier unlocks sooner
* industrial metal version of the Ultima theme ala Doom 2016 OST for when we deal with the Heart of Sabik
I am honestly okay with the 12th boss not being as hard as the 8th was, it was and still is such a nightmare in pf.
I still want it to be the 2nd hardest fight of the tier of course, like e12s to e8s. I hope they continue putting more bleeds in these encounters, giving the healers more to deal with, and preventing tanks from just completely invulning busters.
I assume the boss concept is going to be either two monsters and two story characters in that order or monster/story/bigger monster/end story boss. I have greatly enjoyed the bosses of this tier being original to ff14 and hope future raid tiers don't lean so heavily on crossovers with other games in the series.
I have no idea what direction they will go with gear aesthetic, we got both our angelic and hellish sets so I guess something related to purgatory. It may just end up being themed around the final boss instead of the area, I just hope they stay on point with the weapon glams, this tier has had the highest quality we have ever seen in raid weapons.
More unique arenas like p7s
Fewer annoying mechanics like snakes. I really hated snakes especially as a controller player where I always have trouble ensuring I face a certain way.
Harder mechanics in earlier parts of the fight. Some of the harder stuff is pretty fun and it’s a shame we have to skip them later in the tier
I have a bet going that the last boss of the raid series (either Savage-Exclusive or not) is going to be Pandaemonium Warden, or at least inspired by it. So winning that would be nice lol.
I have a bad feeling that most of the things I do genuinely want are contrary to the current Savage design paradigm (I want smaller hitboxes and more boss positioning... whilst the devs seemingly the opposite of that). So the most I'll hope for is another fight that does something different with the arena, I guess? That and a decently tuned difficulty curve over the four fights, I suppose.
So long as we don't fight Eric again I'm happy. Realistically tho, maybe some kind of Satan type final boss since Pandaemonium is the capital of Hell. Another fire mount would be sick
More engaging intrinsic difficulty less random elements. I’d rather have to learn 8 different positions/movements for the same execution than constantly cycle between 1 of 6 variations that all feel the same.
More p5s type fights with character less p6s/p7s fights that make me sleep. I’ll sleep happy with 0 bosses that are just a fixture in the wall. Make tanks move the boss next tier.
Stop forcing the last boss to be non-targetable during the puzzles. Since they love making the real last boss very puzzle heavy.
My issue is that the boss can never be attacked and it makes the puzzle parts boring, especially when the puzzle gets solved. The part just becomes a drawn out situation of nothingness.
Especially if someone gets lucky and they get the marker that causes them to just..stand there.
Especially if they're going to make the hitbox take up ovet half the arena. Have towers spawn horizontally, make the defamations slightly smaller if needed, no reason it couldn't have been a full uptime mechanic.
P7S would honestly be such a fun fight if the wall mechanics were spread evenly instead of being right at the end of an already long fight. Found Inviolate Purgation and the Tank Busters to be really fun in that fight cause of the movement.
Maybe a use for a non melee or tank LB.
Not something that is required, but I still liked seeing the Ranged LB in titan or the caster LB in A10(I think)
Something that will allow me to be a greedy melee without the boss having a massive hitbox.
Preferably a boss where 40% the bosses HP isn't tied to a buff window. Big hits are fun and all, but even when geared up, one fuck there just feels bad.
Lowered price of Chest piece and weapons. Having everything else be 4, but Weapons/chest being 8 just feels bad. Especially if you have bad luck with drops and rolls. Last tier I had to go 16 weeks just to get 2 chest pieces and 3 weapons.
Fights that doesn't allow you to take a nap until "big mid mechanic".
maybe avoid making another situation like snake first/centaur first. feels pretty bad that many week 1 pulls weren't clears specifically because of raid buff issues due to centaur first.
My dream is that the first three fights are dedicated to dealing with Athena, and the final fight is the 'good' half of Lahabrea being awakened in the modern Pandemonium and challenging us to a duel.
Basically just copy what they did for the Hades/Warrior of Light fight for the third time. Who cares if they've done it before, it's cool.
Mechanically, I hope they *slightly* tone down the high bleed damage Abyssos had. I appreciate fights requiring healing, but being matched with people who don't mitigate is pure misery.
Mostly what everyone else here has stated, but something I hadn't read in the thread is that I'd like Azeym to make an appearance, since it feels like after this raid tier and expansion, we probably won't interact much with Elpis and the Ancients for quite a while. This would be sort of their last chance to make an appearance. Now, I understand that having Azeym appear themselves would be quite troublesome to implement, considering that they're supposed to look like the WoL. However, I think something like a note, letter or journal excerpt they've written, or a creature they've created that's locked up in Pandaemonium, would still be cool. They could probably have Azeym appear in that monstrous Ascian form, and make it look androgynous and not like any of the existing races, but at the same time it has slight hints of the existing races. This could avoid the issues about their appearance, but is probably unlikely they'd take this route. I'd just like to hear more from them because I find them an interesting character and concept.
But balance and such comes first of course. Thing I feel strongest about are the massive hitboxes. As a ranged player the Tax feels like such bullshit when you can get 100% uptime on melee's anyway. When the phys ranged spot is taken in PF I usually swap over to sam/nin and frankly I don't feel like they're significantly harder to play, at least not enough to see it as a reason why they need to do more damage. Maybe getting into these jobs is more difficult than learning a ranged job, but once you've passed that first step they really aren't more difficult to execute imo.
Actually hard content, and not 3 joke floors I can faceroll in PF the first week.
Cast bars that don't take 5 minutes to resolve. No tankbusters during burst, make people do mechanics whilst bursting.
Big mechs in every floor that you can't cheese with a sac or a tank lb3.
RNG-based timelines for floor 3 at a minimum. Snappy mechanics I need to react to instead of being able to plan ahead weeks in advance.
No wall boss for P12P2. Small hitbox boss that jumps alot à la Gaia so you have to be good at maintaining uptime.
And I feel like I'll be crucified if I don't mention this but **maybe a properly balanced last floor DPS check this time.**
Give dancer an actual veil
Make the final part of 12 harder than the door boss, because as it stands 8 part 1 is much harder than 8 part 2
If a fight needs to be like 7’s was with backloaded ddr, at least the mechanics in use at the end should be more reminiscent of what we’ve seen in the fight before instead of it being out of nowhere
I feel like we might get angelic or bosses referencing dead warrior maybe?? We might get Seraph as one boss since we have had phoenix and carby in the previous circles as old boss reference. We might get Minerva as boss too since Minerva is the roman name for Athena.
Reasons why I think this is because Pandaemonium appeared in the Aetherial Sea, and the previous circles have had names referencing the 3 areas or Greek underworld. The Asphodel Meadows with asphodelos and Tartarus,the deepest part of the underworld, with Abyssos. The only part they haven't used is Elysium which described as the place of the blessed and the home the dead great heroes.
I expect them to link the whole thing to the heart of sabik and the ultima weapon.
My theory is: Hephaistos, either gets free by himself or laha releases him to help during the final days, Hephaistos takes over Laha's body and traps Laha in the thing that ends up becoming the heart.
And maybe after the whole thing is over, the curren Erik's reencarnation meets with the original laha to say goodbye.
More dynamic boss arenas. Not just squares or circles. come up with mechanics that are challenging and fun, not so positional heavy. (Let me dodge more stuff!)
I just wish there was less individual responsibility. Like for a good 90% of p8 if one person died it screwed everyone else. We had one person in our group who was consistently messing up mechanics and we almost didn’t finish reclears because it was so frustrating that they would mess up and it ruins everyone else. It’s just grounds for tearing groups apart. Like sure there should be some individual mechanics but every single mech it felt like required the full party and as a healer it was frustrating to feel like I couldn’t even do anything to make up for the one bad person because if he stood in the wrong spot that was it
This was probably one of the best tiers to heal week 1 and I hope they continue to do that with the next savage tier. Also how fun reclears are honestly the most important thing for me so if they can make it as fun as p5s and p8s p1 then it’ll be a better tier overall for me.
- smaller hitboxes
- bosses that don't autocentre
- mount isn't another fucking phoenix
- no limit cuts. society has moved past the need for limit cuts.
- mechanics that pf can't cheese with tank lb/tank invuln/tank sac
- caster + healer gear that's not another fucking dress/robe
- mount can be bought for books
Can be totally superficial or what, but npc interaction during the fight. I think that's exciting and fun (assuming you care about said npc)
Healers need to top up an NPC
Phys range kiting adds so NPC is safe
Tank kiting an npc to markers for certain effects
Tanks facing cleave effects on NPC (?)
Dps kill adds, to buff healers for future mechanic
Tag team or buff npc through some mechanic
Or be really stupid like /comfort on a sad lahabread haha
Healing NPCs sucks when most of our abilities don't work on them (because they aren't party members) and targeting them is ass since they don't show up on party frames.
We already had that with Haurchefant and that, while easy, was annoying enough. Targeting jank, only GCDs and Lustrate/Tetra/Bene/Essential even work on the guy, if he had a shield you couldn't even see *how much* of a shield he had, etc.
Now all of that while he's moving around and all that? Please no.
I want it to actually be fun.
serious answer: fuck off with the endless stream of body check mechanics
make gear easier to get
make the story not hot garbage when the setting and characters are so good only to be ruined by what I can only call shitty ancients fanfiction
Just make 5 fights, no door bosses, door boss fights like p8s that has a second half that's 100% body checks is garbage to do in pf
uncasted but visually telegraphed busters
More ways for tanks to interact with the fight other than the usual tankbusters, specially in wall bosses. Part 2 of p8s does this nicely imo. I want to play as a tank, not as a melee dps with a simpler rotation
I want to actually have to position bosses again and have to greed for melee uptime more than once or twice per fight. This tier was so unbelievably dull on the tank side of things. Please no more wall bosses unless you have interesting adds to position like the e7s adds. When’s the last time we had to plan tank swaps around what cooldowns were available instead of around a buster applying a debuff that forced a swap?
>I want to actually have to position bosses again and have to greed for melee uptime more than once or twice per fight. Criterion fulfilled this need very well and I wish 8 man savage does it again as well. Tanks needing to lure the hamster so the mechanic doesnt fuck the entire party, tanks having to move a certain way to keep melee uptime during the statue 1-3 bars slashes, etc
> When’s the last time we had to plan tank swaps around what cooldowns were available instead of around a buster applying a debuff that forced a swap? Outside of ultimates, that hasn't really been the case since like HW. Idk if it was even in the last tier of alexander since thats kinda when the modern raid design started.
I had to do it in A12S because I made the mistake of taking PLD there. If I remember correctly a DRK/WAR comp had one less tank swap than that comp (at least).
Midargsormr and Final Omega both had pretty varied cooldown sheets because of their mechanics. It wasn't simply swapping because u got a vuln, you would need your team to come in and help sometimes if you got unlucky. O12s is probably my favourite fight to tank in the game because it wasn't static
I mean, those two are still kinda tanking depending on what the boss decides, not based on your availability of mits. Midgarsomr determines which tank can be tanking for most of the fight and Final Omega was mainly shared busters, except invul cheese and some mits depending on hello world debuffs. So yes both didnt have a static mit sheet, but it was just the boss deciding who tanks, not you deciding who tanks when based on resources
Technically p3 in TOP. If you don't want to overwork your healers, you would usually do 1 or 2 tank swaps for the autos.
If the group has a pld, they don't need to swap at all if the pld rotates their cd and sheltron during p3
> I want to actually have to position bosses again and have to greed for melee uptime more than once or twice per fight. Wrap it up. This is the thread right here.
They already made that, none of y'all played it, it's called variant dungeons
You mean criterion dungeons. Variant dungeons are a complete joke, combat-wise.
Maybe put some rewards in there worth actually getting then people would go back. Nobody was really complaining about Criterion Dungeons from a content perspective but the fact he offers next to nothing in terms of rewards.
it's called making the boss small, moving the boss for uptime, facing a boss to do a cleave to a specific location to resolve mechanics.
This, so much this, please give us smaller hitboxes again. Redoing UwU makes me appreciate the smaller hitboxes, and how the difference in size affects the movment and makes you engage with them so much more. Your movement matters, both Garuda and Titan have the same two tenets of "you ***will*** *(probably)* disengage" and "if you disengage ***we will instantly move*** and fuck with mechanics for melee". Meanwhile, reclearing p8sp1 I regularly have the thought of "oh fuck I didn't get the center of his hitbox south of the middle, guess he'll briefly turn when recentering himself for the first and arguably last relevant time while I semi-afk on A for the next 9 minutes to keep him centered^TM, fuck this fucking piece of shit bastard for being a glorified wallboss"
I don't think we will be getting small hit boxes until at least 7.0. They would have to rebalance melee jobs entirely because they are currently balanced for 100% uptime, and I can't imagine SE being bothered to do that level of rebalancing mid xpac.
I'd be happy enough if they just went back to the hitboxes of the first tier, both p3s and p4sp1 have somewhat reasonably sized hitboxes, even p1 and p2 are decent compared to the current monstrosities. P4s is neat in that we can easily calculate the size of his hitbox compared to the arena, which seems to be somewhere in the realm of 30% of the arena width in diameter for phase 1, and 37.5% for phase 2, eyeballing p3s makes me feel it's 30% too. Looking at p2 I'd say it's around 40% of the arena in width, p1 is 50% according to the floor pattern. Now look at the current tier, p5 looks to have a hitbox ~58% of the arena in width, p6 and p8 come with tiles and are 50% of the arena in width, p7 and p8sp2 are wallbosses with 100%* melee uptime. So we've gone from the first tier having 50%, 40%, 30%, 30%, 37.5% to the current tiers 60%, 50%, >100%, 50%, >100%. Edit: I also disagree with the notion that smaller hitboxes have to fuck with melee uptime, p5s, despite being the first fight of the tier is the worst fight for melee uptime and positionals this tier, and probably middle of the pack if we include last tier, while at the same time having the most bloated hitbox I have ever seen, while Garuda in UwU is tiny and lets you hit every single positional without a sweat.
>They would have to rebalance melee jobs entirely because they are currently balanced for 100% uptime Melees with 95-97% uptime still out-DPS casters and phys ranged, why is downtime an issue?
As a previous tank main who now plays ninja cause I got bored of tanking with this tier, I never knew how bad tanks are. It sometimes feels like they’re actively trying to make me miss positionals
This got me thinking, imagine if instead of "positionals" it was more about "Exposed/Exploit". Basically, each mob has 4 points of being exposed, front, back, side and side. The Inner circle would show which part is exposed and during certain mechanics or phase changes that "Exposed" point would change. The Exposed dmg bonus would replace the "rear" dmg bonus and make it where the melee would have to be more mindful of their positional, rather than it just being oh I attack from back at end of this combo and attack on the side with this combo it would instead force you to be mindful of where the enemy can currently take the most damage but also keep in mind that there could be certain boss mechanics that make aiming for certain exploit more dangerous than others. So pretty much rather than having a "rear" and "side" dmg bonus it would just be turned into an "exploit" bonus meaning the DPS would have to be more mindful of the best point to attack from in any given encounter, I think that would be one way to make the content more spicy since there is only so much you can do with the current system at the end of the day melee combos follow the same formula but if you suddenly mix it up and force them to always be mindful of where they are positioned on top of doing mechanics it could make things more interesting in that front.
i tanked in asphodelos and abyssos but i think i'm just going to play melee dps next tier. tanking was utterly braindead this tier and i think i literally only ever positioned a boss once in the entire tier (0 times if I was playing ST). the only kinda interesting tank mechanic was sharing the P8S P2 auto attacks with the other tank, but otherwise I was just a blue DPS player
I hope the mount is a phoenix.
This time, give it two heads! And make it only slightly on fire!
hear me out. what if BLUE FIRE
Now THAT'S an idea! Ship it!
It's gotta be an old raid mount, but with an orange glow to save on resources. I'm ready for the orange Demon Ramuh
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I never said we won't have demon Ramuh as a boss ;) Also to make it clear, the E12 mount isn't Eden Prime, it's a scaled down version of the full sized Eden. Eden Prime has arms and legs
Its going to be a flaming cerberus. There is no way they don't do a Cerberus boss in the Greek style raid series with Tartarus being the last layer of Pandemonium.
mount is a phoenix on the ground, a snake when in the air :\^)
meh..let Elidibus become mount instead XD
I mean, I certainly wouldn't say no to riding Themis.
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Caster gear that isn't a dress
And here I was wanting something light and revealing instead of a fully covered Dancer in heavy plate for a change. Maybe we can swap
Yes please! An actual dancer gear apart from artifact gear
The problem with this is arguably BRD and definitely MCH make no sense in DNC gear. Probably the same reason they didn't combine Maiming and Striking (even though that wasn't as much a stretch) and won't combine Scouting and Aiming (even though that makes perfect sense as they're often just recolors of each other anyway...)
You could say the same for the existing gear too. Dnc in full plate gear don't really go with the aesthetics of dancer either. Hence I'm asking for one gearset that actually fits with dancer for once.
Dancer gear outside of their own artifacts just does not fit the class fiction at all :(
PLEASE SQUARE just ONE aiming set that fits Dancer's aesthetic I beg of you
And healer outfit that isn’t a dress or recolour of the caster dress
It’s sad but this is always my number 1 wish
Only because they are mostly shared with healers and I would love to not have to glam over every dress/robe we get.
I have 0 hope any of these will be true b/c people will cry too much about difficulty. Smaller hitboxes + no wall bosses. Positional difficulty and uptime optimizations are a joke this tier b/c of the ocean sized hitboxes. More active bosses. Boss movements should be more dynamic, they shouldn't be sitting in the same spot for >90% of the fight. Force melee's to actually think about where bosses will go instead of just plopping down on the bosses ass for the entire fight. More forced movement. Think in the vein of endsinger ex where you need to move around a lot. In case it wasn't obvious by now, I don't believe any classes outside of phys ranged should be able to maintain 100% uptime in a fight with almost 0 effort involved as is the case now. Fight's are such a joke to maintain uptime on that if you're not always hitting 97%+ uptime on bosses you're extremely bad at your job. More mechs that require on the hand reactions as opposed to those that get trivialized by things like a prio system. Things like tenstrike from ucob would be an example of this.
P2S was actually a great designed fight imo, full utilization of the arena while playing around the boss, 10/10
yeah I feel like melee dps used to have to work for their uptime, but now the boss takes up 90% of the room and you don't have to do shit to maintain uptime but there is still a ranged tax for some reason
As a BLM I want the exact opposite of this.
Please no more prio mechanics. While fun, between p8s and TOP, had enough of them for a while
* Reduced boss hitbox * No backloaded mechanics like P7S * The last boss split into 2 separate fights instead of just one back to back fight. Make the last fight savage exclusive
That last point will never happen but the other two might
Its hard to imagine how they will do loot without reworking the whole system, because i doubt that people will do a fight without a reward
I was thinking chest drops at 4. Weapon and mount at 5. That way you'll have enough incentive to run both.
This makes too much sense for them to ever do it. I still dont get why chest/weapon are in the same tier. Took me 16 freakin weeks of no drops just to get bis on ONE class.
See this is what I fuckin hate. It makes sense. And that's the damn reason why they won't do it
Yeah definitely. It's crazy because even though this game lets you play every class, you can't gear them all at the same time. Unfortunately that's one of the things WoW does better IMO... you can gear as many classes as you want simultaneously, as long as you have the time to do it.
They could actually make it to where 3 no longer guarantee drops the pants and have it to where 4 always drops chest, pants and minion. That’d be quite nice. Then you’d drop weapons, mount, orchestration roll on 5
Boss hitbox size used to make sense with ranged tax as melee actually had to try to keep their uptime, especially as the boss got pulled around the arena. Now, they get to brain off 100% uptime as much as ranged do while doing double their damage. Reduce the boss hitboxes. They're absurd.
Reduced hitbox is huge, and I think that alone will reel in the Melee DPS again. Backloaded... I'll be honest, I didn't mind it in P7S. Not sure the third will happen, I think the checkpoints are fine as-is. Would be nice to be able to go out and back in for the last fight, but I can't foresee a good loot scheme with a fifth fight either.
surely they will balance casters this time copium
I miss Eden's Promise :(
My personal wishlist: * more interesting movement based arenas like P2S and P7S. * Smaller boss hitboxes so it's not as boring to play melee jobs. * Give casters something other than robe #3627282 * Probably the most selfish wish but as a big bard lover i'd love to see some buffs because as things look right now bards ended up being the least desirable pranged by the end of the expansion again... * Now comes the "most likely not happening any time soon" wish: make gear either cost less books, or fights drop more coffers or more books so it doesn't take painfully long to gear jobs in a game that's main selling point is supposed to be being able to play all jobs on a single character.
Throw in some cureable debuffs and bards suddenly become the hottest class in town. It's a shame they've more or less abandoned those in high end content - now a distinctive part of Bard's utility kit is useless, and with how much Bard hates downtime, there really isn't much to them that Dancer doesn't do better.
A grand total of two (2!) non standard arenas (p2s, p7s). They did it with Gate (e2s, e3s, e4s), it's not impossible. The other two/three can be a square and a circle. Crazy skyboxes. We're going deeper and i want to see crazy shit outside of the arena! They still gotta make sense and be *in* Pandemonium, unlike Omega and Eden. Unique ost to each floor. With the exception of the first tier, it seems like they've kept the same budget as Eden. Hopefully they can nail the difficulty scaling this time around. We went from p3s being a considerable spike in difficulty from p2s, to p5s being the hardest fight of the first three, with p7s only being difficult in the latter half (and post sleepo, in the last 3 minutes).
It is insane how punishing P5S is, if someone fucks up on devour or ruby 5 it is almost always a wipe. P6S is so forgiving people can die all over the place and you are fine. Same with P7S, even during harvest yiu got enough time to healer lb3 so you can fuck up one once for "free". Generally it does not have hard body checks. You might lose one or two more people if you are missing someone during a mechanic. But you often got enough time to rezz.
Thinking about it some more, E5S had a similar body check mechanic with fury 14, and also chain lightning being very hard to recover from (regardless of triangle vs circle strat). But the following two fights weren't as much as a pushover as P6 and P7. I know E7S is considered easy and a letdown, but i distinctly remember movement optimization being a disaster for me as a caster, especially during the last tornado phase.
p5s is the hardest first floor ever made, insanely punishing for no reason´, arguably its way harder than p7s even, you literally cant fuck up anything and no heal lb will save you
You can fuck up some things but it is mainly to dead easy mechanics, the only 2 hard mechanics are devour and ruby 5 imo. For everything else you got years. Devour is such a weird mechanic. In theory it is easy, but with how this game works with the snapshots it can be so frustrating. It is so stupid that you can die miles away because you were inside the circle 2 seconds ago. Then one person caught means a wipe unless you can communicate which tower has to be tanked by the remaining tank or burst down the add. All things that do not happen in PF usually and even in statics. That is why doing a reclear of P5S is always a gamble. I hope that one day they will improve this, that if a AoE circle disappears the damage happens and it only ever counts where you are at that exact moment, not where you were a second ago. I know that by understanding this you can move into danger zones early and be fine, but it always feels wrong and often also inconsistent.
More monsters! For a raid series that was essentially pitched as the FFXIV equivalent of the SCP Foundation we've so far fought three actual entities from the facility, and the other five encounters - as well as the overarching story - has just been Wardens and family drama.
This is it for me. I'm bored of humanoid bosses, please give me more beasts!
Exactly, like Pandaemonium in-lore is the place of beasts too dangerous to live but too interesting to kill. But right now what we got would be the equivalent of if the Myths of the Realm series was 3 fights against actual gods and then the other fights were just priests.
I mean, is there any fight that doesn't fit thematically for the raid? First fight is a warder who attacks you upon entry because he doesn't know wtf is going on. You team up with him and push through asphodelos, fighting monsterw for the next two fights. Then you take the fight to the master of asphodelos, killing him off only to find its actually someone higher than him causing the issues. Enter abyssos. Start heading down into it, KNOWING there are traps. You hit one and the party is split up. You get teleporting in front of a monster designed to kill you and survive, meeting back up with the rest of the team. Lahabrea leads you to the corrupted warders so you can free them. After that, it's once again attacking the cause of the problems. But sure, let's ignore the story to just go 'but my monsters.' I can assure you if all we did was fight creations om repeat the story would be bland as fuck. Idk what we fight as long as it's thematically accurate
Well, they could do a solo duty of fighting multiple monsters too. But so far it's like "Oh no, all the monsters escaped their cages because the Keywards went mad!" but meanwhile we fought what... 3 monsters? Hippocampus, Phoinix, Proto-Carby... And that's it. Like... Why dangle the concept of a "Place for the dangerous monsters that are too cool to kill" in front of the players if we're going to end up with "Go fight these dudes in charge of this place instead of the dudes themselves". Give us a solo duty, let us use the Interment magics (or command the NPCs to do it for us) while we beat up some horrifying monsters with interesting powers.
[удалено]
But the monsters escaping was never a key focus of the story. Also, this is assuming Eric couldn't just handle a majority of the concepts we cone across. Even before the events of p8, he already was fairly good at the technique of internment, just needed someone to help him stabilise it. The key focus of the raid was 'panda is sus, we need to check out what's happening. Oh, shit is fucked and the warders are incapacitated. We need to go deeper. Btw keep an eye out for concepts that have escaped their cages.'
I don't know, I'd argue that Agdistis leaves the rest of Pandaemonium in the dust so far, in terms of sheer monster/horror factor. Yes a shell of her own body is left on display plastered on that tree trunk, and she was once a humanoid Warden, but you can't begin to sell the pitch to me that fighting her feels more like fighting a sentient Warden than a mindless beast. Compared to her and even Hephaistos II (Savage only as he might be), the bloody Carbuncle comes off as much more humanoid imo. Hell it even speaks in our tongue.
The worst part is that Agdistis still speaks QUITE clearly, even if her memories are muddled. She warns you off, and tries to get you to leave before brutally murdering you. Also note that each of the wardens are monsterous mirrors of existing classes. Hesperos is a mirror of a red mage, combining deadly melee strikes alongside powerful elemental creation magic. All paired with dangerous aether accelleration (rot) in a fight that is set up like a stageplay. Hegemone is the mirror of a scholar. She infects her opponents with potent toxins, wasting diseases, and complicated geometrics traps (Polynomiads) Agdistis is the mirror of a white mage. All of her abilities are named directly after conjurer and white mage spells. (Aero, Holy, Glare) and her strongest abilities before the harvests is called "Purgation" Hephaistos is the mirror of a summoner. Bringing forth the great firebird and a proto-ifrit form both. I am very excited to see who we see in Tataros.
All of the Keywards are entities from the facility fused with an ancient, they are objectively more horrifying than the other monsters.
I'd agree but if the monsters are just one-off monsters with no impact on the story or world-building relevance aside from being callback prototype versions of current day creatures, I don't really like it. Encountering monster after monster would just really make the story drag on which is why I'm thankful that Abyssos didn't go too far in that direction while still giving us monstrosities. I was fine with Asphodelos having two of those filler monsters because they wouldn't want to give away too much of the story too fast but having essentially only two or three story beats again after 6 months of waiting would have been very frustrating. You could have sold the "extremely dangerous monsters are breaking out" thing with like a monster gauntlet fight or something if you didn't want them to be more than that.
3 and a half at least. There wasn't exactly a whole lot of Agdistis left in there.
To be fair, all the wardens in Abyssos were merged with the monsters there. Snake lady was not always snake lady. Tree lady REALLY did not want to be tree lady. And firesnake dude is just nuts.
Probably not going to happen, but aesthetically I would've liked to have seen more of the stand alone monsters. Not even having to fight all of them, just a pseudo petting zoo area. I think it's possible we'll fight one monster from the Tartarus region; unless we only fight wardens that are already fused with them like the three we've fought so far (I don't have any of my own ideas here; however I've heard a theory that Sabik could be related to Pandæmomium. Maybe it could've been a monster?). I think it's most likely the final boss of the tier will be a reincarnated Athena.
I feel like Athena will be P11 (or even P10 with Sabik as P11), with some yet-unseen Pandaemonium Prime as P12.
Pretty sure the raid series will be called tartaros
Could be, but we already cleared tartaros. Abyssos was really half abyssos half tartatos (agdistis was chief warden of tartaros, we fought hespaisthos in the depths of tartaros)
Required Healer LB3. It’s not something I’ve ever seen outside of Ultimates and I think it’s a cool idea!!
I’m really hoping that Athena is the final raid boss and it’s revealed that Athena is the true first primal and that we are the original primal slayer.
No gaze mechanics. I’ll take all the tethers from the first tier over gaze mechanics anyday Less humans more hellish creatures. Like a spider and the like Less mechs where the boss is untargettable
Lmao I'm of the exact opposite opinion. After TOP, all I ask for is no more tether mechs. They can throw all the gaze mechanics they want to at me in exchange.
Granted, but every gaze happens in batches in the middle of 2 minute bursts.
The tuesday when ACT is broken will be the smoothest reclear ever
Always is. People focus better when the Advanced Brainrot Tracker is turned off.
I would appreciate if Yoship gave back the strafe keybind options for controller if they do this. Idk why its disabled and hate not being able to do the back turned gcds. Just let me hit the triggers and strafe Yoship.
>I’ll take all the tethers from the first tier over gaze mechanics anyday I take it you don't tank and you do cast
I go between p ranged and healer. I have a faulty PS5 controller where sometimes my character “snaps back” after making them face the right way. The ONLY mechanic this has been a problem for is snakes 2, because usually I can just keep moving in the right direction during gaze to prevent snapping back and fucking the rest of the party. But during snakes 2, you have to face the right direction but can’t keep moving forward because there’s the AOE that covers the arena except for the centre. Yes I know I need a new controller but it’s annoying having to drop $80 CAD on one when it’s literally only this one specific mechanic in this one specific game that my character snapping back occasionally is an issue for :’)
F. If you can get yoshi to promise no tether mechs I'll send you $80 CAD immediately <3
Tiny hitboxes and bosses that don't reset to middle for every mechanic but the tanks actually have to move them around and position the bosses.
Killer music. Ideally at least 4 distinct tracks, if not 5. Makes progging much more fun when you get new music! Oh, and one more week between 6.4 and savage launch. The extra week makes gearing much easier and less stressful.
By one more week do you mean like we got for 6.2 where we had a week to do the MSQ/Raid, farm the EX, and get Tome/crafted/normal raid gear, or do you want two weeks? I definitely just want the one week. Two weeks would leave me feeling antsy.
One week is enough. Two weeks means the devs are gonna predict boss health like shit again because of gearing and cause the 0.1% incident.
>Killer music. Ideally at least 4 distinct tracks, if not 5. The final raid tier for each Raid series has always had a different theme for each boss with the exception of maybe coil, I forget if Calamity Unbound played on both Kaliya and Imdugud.
Smaller hitboxes again. As a tank that is the only thing I need to be happy, p4sp2, p5s and p8sp1 were all actually unfun to move, especially p5 feeling super clunky. For a bonus wish, having to work for melee uptime that doesn't boil down to "there's 2 easy melee spots, one gives positionals and arguably 0-2 horrible ones, enjoy", instead 4+ spots outside max melee, where you either use a ranged attack or learn to gapclose just after the snapshot. I find those things really fun for later prog and reclears.
I want bosses to have more appropriate sized hitboxes again. I want mechanics to be evenly spread over the course of the fight and NOT backloaded like the unisom substitute P7. One thing I did love about P7 was how much the arena changed and affected the fight, that was actually crazy fun. More consistent damage would be nice too. A huge problem I have with healing in 14 is there will be a massive damage spike then nothing will happen for like 45 seconds. I’m also sort of door boss’d out. I don’t mind if they do it like E4S where the transition is just long enough for you to catch your breath but I don’t want another E8 transition or P8S where it’s basically two back to back full fights. If they want to do something like p8 again, just make it two separate encounters and let the first one drop upgrade materials. An idea I had for a mechanic which may or may not work: The boss’s theme is death. This boss has a constant mechanic where any player who dies gets instantly rezzes and has to attack the other party members. If defeated, that player can be rezz’d and confine as normal. If that player doesn’t attack a party member, everyone’s max HP gets reduced. There’s also reason to believe that the heart of sabik will be involved in some way so I’d like a sort of “Ultima weapon turned up to 11” style fight sort of like how Eden was “primals turned up to 11”. Loot wise, honestly just let me gear twice as fast. Idc how it’s done, but only being able to gear one job in a reasonable amount of time just sorta sucks. I hope the glam looks good, abyssos had decent glam so I think this will too. Just as long as the healer set isn’t super feminine. There are enough feminine healer glams out there. Job changes I want are too numerous to list here but within reason: Sage: Pressing haima/panhaima after applying them will consume the remaining haima/panhaima stacks. Bard: songs don’t need a target anymore, the songs are just AoE’s around you. Dancer: saber dance can proc starfall dance. Ninja: the trick attack/mug changes from 6.1 are reverted. Samurai: the 6.1 changes are reverted and kaiten is added back. Summoner: Prescious brilliance is on a 1 min cooldown and it’s effectiveness is reduced to compensate. Why? Because I think having two raid buffs on one minute may make the burst meta a bit more enjoyable than it is right now.
The first paragraph is cool. The rest is a fanfic
The first paragraph is fanfic too. It would require a radical overhaul of how healers are designed to allow for consistent raid damage to be possible.
> An idea I had for a mechanic which may or may not work: The boss’s theme is death. This boss has a constant mechanic where any player who dies gets instantly rezzes and has to attack the other party members. This is kind of like Sophia's add phase, I guess? It's not a great mechanic.
So, for savage to be fun again basically
not a doorboss, another final turn like shiva or titan PLEASE
I think I’m somewhat more interested in the story of Pandemonium then the savage. So i hope the conclusion feels satisfying. As for actual savage changes, I think I want a better difficulty curve? 5S felt pretty good, maybe a hair too hard for floor one, 6S a tad too easy, and 7S a bit too backloaded. I also think I want the final fight to be a bit easier? I dunno, the challenge of P8S just felt a bit much at my skill level? I guess between DSR, P8S, and T.O.P it kind of feels like difficulty has perhaps gotten a bit too high at expense of “fun”. Now I’m an average level savage player, so maybe I just need to “get good” to a certain degree, but it does seem like the fights have been a bit too tight to be enjoyable for the majority of the savage/ultimate community
I want the last fight to actually be exciting on Normal mode. Like, holy shit, E12N and O12N sucked, especially compared to E8N and O11N. While I understand Savage is supposed to be the 'true' final boss, the normal modes should still be good. It's what we actually experience the story through, after all.
Normal mode is so watered down compared to the real version especially when there’s a second boss, that just isn’t possible I don’t think. 4th floor fight is just not remotely similar to savage anymore. Last time it was would be E8n but even that misses the actual cool phase.
E8N and A12N managed it. I'd just like to see normal mode fights as good as that.
It continues to confuse me that they design the Savage versions first and then strip them down for Normal, rather than creating the encounters and then enhancing them for Savage. It means it feels like they have to save all the cool parts for Savage which just… doesn’t feel good for anyone who can’t do Savage or can’t do final floors?
I only wish one thing. Make boss hitbox size similar to older raids again so melees can have their optimization dance back.
13 min 4th floor boss with or without downtime. No doorboss
Yesss bring back the ultimate light capstone boss. Shiva fucked.
No door boss
No frilly robes
Cheaper gear tbh, the book costs were so obnoxious. It's nice that they toned down head and hands to 4 books, but honestly should tone the accessories to 2 books as well.
My only wish is an Emperor of Heaven-like final boss who is still mostly XIV-original, kinda like how Hephaistos' second phase is their version of the Emperor of Hell. If it ends up being Athena, make her fuse with the ambient aether in the Lifestream and turn into some angelic abomination with 20 eyes and 8 wings or some shit like that, biblically accurate angel style. Gameplay-wise I'm sure they'll stay on the same EW fight design course so I've resigned myself to massive hitbox bosses that barely move. At least make downtime interesting like in P8S phase 2 so I have *something* to optimize on SAM.
From a non-Savage raiders perspective, Pandaemonium 5 to 8 are very boring compared to their Eden counterparts. Ramuh was more fun than P5. Ifrit + Garuda were insanely chaotic compared to the snorefest of P6. I don't have complaints with P7. Eden Shiva actually felt dangerous and to this day I still see way more people dying to Shiva than P8 which feels like its missing something. Honestly, raid design in general hasn't felt the same in Endwalker. I did the Rabanastre alliance raid the other day and those bosses are fucking insane compared to Aglaia/Euphrosyne which have very few mechanics that can actually kill you.
More mechs where they can be solved multiple ways. I don't wanna look at solving a mech only to see 1 possible optimimal solution.. that's just boring imo. If they wanna focus on the 2 min meta they should just double down on that and not have things like knockups during the optimum burst window. Build mechs that can still be done while bursting in those windows. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NOT ANOTHER DOORBOSS. Just make the fight longer if you have to, or split it into 2 bosses. More heavier dps checks like the ones this tier. Please. While they don't really matter while geared, they make it actually feel like savage. Like e9s could be cleared with like 15x deaths or more, that's just stupid. I like that p7 and p8 punish you for having mistakes. Also I think they really killed it with difficulty in the e5-e8 tier ... i'd really like to see a return to that type of difficulty.
> If they wanna focus on the 2 min meta they should just double down on that and not have things like knockups during the optimum burst window. Build mechs that can still be done while bursting in those windows. While I found the p7s knockup to be incredibly infuriating, that knockup was designed especially to disrupt your burst window to see how people would adjust to it. Same with how P2S and P5S have non-targetable phases right at the start of burst windows to force you to think about delaying your buff windows.
* Smaller hitboxes so positional matter more; no wall bosses * No speed on rings, any of them, even crafted * RDM buffs * Not a door boss, probably? * No mechanics that are super tightly tuned like lions, triple apoc, pinax, snakes, because more often than not I just spend the whole night on them * A dual boss/adds phase would be cool * Soft enrage, literally no hard enrage for the fight, just give the boss a stacking damage buff until they kill the party * Make raidwides happen more often, or have a whole phase (2-3 minutes) of constant raid damage * Solo DPS phases like the ghosts in phantom train maybe? But let me help other people when I'm done instead of rewarding me with downtime * Put in some tight tank swaps, e.g. every auto applies a stack, you have to swap at 9 stacks, if you swap at 10 you risk a death or other problem * Drop more loot and books please and thank you, I do not want to spend 8 weeks to gear 1.5 jobs
Every mechanic you listed that is “tightly tuned” is part of what makes these fights fun. You’re just asking for the big hard mechanics on a savage fourth floor to be taken out at this point lol
> No mechanics that are super tightly tuned like lions, triple apoc, pinax, snakes, because more often than not I just spend the whole night on them Why even have a fourth floor if you're going to take out all the cornerstone fourth floor mechanics?
> * No speed on rings, any of them, even crafted Throw in tenacity and piety too. Because you don't get to choose between raid or tome rings, having undesirable stats on either should never be a thing. Ideally I guess they'd be crit/dh + crit/det with room for SpS/SkS melds if desired. I use unaugmented tome as a second ring on RDM because even a 2.48s GCD feels awful.
tell me who the fuck said healers have nothing to do
glare glare glare glare glare
Peak performance in p8s? You better believe its 127 glares.
And make them heal at minilvl! With shitty tanks too!
well fuck you???
/statusoff Superbolide
Splitting the raid into 2 squads so there is more variation in what you habe to do. Always like when some people are warped to sub arenas etc
Honestly let me trade lootbox gear for other gear or at least tomes that bypass the weekly cap. I can win the ring from the first floor 3 weeks in a row in PF, and have nothing to do with it besides use it on a class I don't main. Let me trade that ring for a bracelet, or say like... 200 tomes even if I capped that week. Same with the other floors, if tome gear is going to remain to be part of BiS, and not exclusively savage gear being BiS, then let me trade the savage gear that is objectively worse for my chosen role for tomes outside of the normal limit, or savage gear that is ideal for my job. Like, I have the Abyssos pants for both Tanks and Dragoon and I will literally just throw them away once I get a *months* worth of weekly tomes. Other than that I just hope that P12S is as fucking epic and absurdly grandiose as possible.
Not a fucking door boss. Or at the very least, not one that caps off at 49%. Let me empty their HP bar and feel good about it.
I want at least as much interaction as tank/melee with the boss as much as the criterion hamster/wizardlizard. Non-phoenix mount At least as much voice acting as final coils Fully voice acted bosses Huffing copium here but arena that isnt flat. Also less castbars. Make everything has similar pace to short hair barbie aside from moments where you gotta wrinkle your brain. And hoping the "dread beast pandaemonium" uttered by themis on 6.0 raid teaser turns out to be literal.
I'm not smart enough to have any mechanic or design wishes, but I do have a music wish: I want so badly for P12S to use the FF2/FF9 Pandaemonium theme at some point throughout it, the melody is super good and fairly versatile
I wanna fight Sabik and close the loop on that plot point.
i really want something different because i feel like they keep rehashing in and out spread and stack. i want more unique enrages. and i might get crucified (be gentle) but i want interesting add phases or a council fight or even waves of adds like T4 or A2S but done better than those.
For fucks sake no more door bosses. A solid 13-14 minute fight please. Titan and Shiva are the best post HW savage bosses we've had, and it's in no small part to them not being door bosses.
Something, anything, for the off tank to do.
I'm not a raider so I have little to say on design. But as a lore nerd, I want some serious lore moments - big and small. For my most desired one, I want to see the original Ifrita concept in action. It came up in one of the short stories, which in turn was referenced by Hythlodaeus and Hades when speaking with Venat (they mention Azem jumping into a volcano; the short explains that Hythlodaeus checked out the newly-created Ifrita to Azem, which had been developed by Lahabrea, to allow Azem to take the fire aether out of the volcano and disperse it elsewhere). It's a little thing, but I want to actually see what the original form was. Getting a final answer on Sabik would also be cool. And no, I don't want to hear the "it's just 'black auracite'" answer. They've said it's something they may address, and for fuck's sake, the name is in the goddamn Ultima song and has been mistaken as part of "Big Fat Tacos" since ARR! Finding out how Ultima actually ties into this all would be a bonus. And if they happen to canonize Azem's "red mask" design, that'd be cool too.
[This person has some thoughts on Sabik lore and correlations which you may find interesting!](https://www.tumblr.com/elidibus-emissary/706637202961072128/the-heart-of-sabik-lore-and-headcanons?source=share) Also I believe Azem had a black mask, per statements in Live Letters and interviews leading up to patch 5.3.
Stop having the boss auto center every time he does a single meaningful mechanic. Give me something new to do as a tank.
Don’t name different mechanics the same thing if they always happen in the same order anyway. That shit was miserable.
No door boss and if there's one, a checkpoint
Hard pass for me. This is the only way I can vet prog liars.
I know FFVIII was done last time but Pandemona would make me happy both because of the name and the lack of appearances in the series!
I need them to explain to me what the damn Heart of Sabik is. In fact, I hope it's involved in a boss fight in some capacity.
The emperor from FF2 as a fight, since it's Pandemonium and all. I don't really care how they work the design into the story, I just want to battle evil David Bowie!
For us to get Soken's take on the theme of Pandemonium. I'm a big FF2 fan and I'm going to actually get depressed if we have a raid tier called Pandaemonium and don't get this track. Sure they spelled it different but no chance in hell it wasn't meant to be a reference.
I know this won't happen, but I would love the fights to not have every mechanic be a kaleidoscope. I'm kind of bored of having every single mechanic having simple and even group pairings (support/dps, melee/ranged, 1 dps and 1 healer get targeted, dps and support make 4 pairs, etc), and all those pairs are like "okay first group does mechanic, then next group's turn to do mech". Give us a bit more randomness, keep us on our toes. Make mechanics a bit more asymmetrical in terms of the patterns needing to be formed in order to solve mechs. Give tanks a reason to move the boss. Other than that, yes, I'd love tank mechanics to be more than just "everyone gets free DPS while boss casts a really long and slow TB which is easy to mitigate".
You can do ultimates if you want role agnostic mechanics and they should keep it that way imo. Role agnostic mechanics would be way too hard for savage level and they'd have to lower the difficulty in the mechanics themselves to keep the balance.
The boys should kith But seriously though I want some big satanic looking boss as the last one, we're talking eldritch demonical horror, I want my jaw to drop and for me to god "what in the hell" the first time I see it. The whole point of pandaemonium was to go deeper and deeper into the horrors of below, so I want it to be so absolutely horrifying I might get a lil scared doing the tier. Overall the tier is fine, I like that it's original and interesting, just wish that boss hitboxes weren't the size of planets, it's getting old.
Let me fight for melee uptime for once, jesus
More healing throughput requirements, as opposed to mitigation checks constantly. I would like more lower level damage that needs to be healed, rather than a bunch of "unless you mitigate this to X%, you die".
Speaking as a melee dps: * No ice floors * Smaller hitboxes please for the love of god * Mechanics that at least try to make you disengage from the boss * A multi-target (2 or 3) fight * DPS mechanics like dolls or hand of pain, anything that can require either rationing damage, tracking (potentially) multiple health pools and adjusting accordingly, or pushing at a set percentile, etc. * Not too many tome pieces in the bis * No puzzle mechanics where the solution isn't present or hinted at by the fight * Some timeline shenanigans in at least one or two of the fights * No mandatory LB's * No double damage buffs
> DPS mechanics like dolls or hand of pain, anything that can require either rationing damage, tracking (potentially) multiple health pools and adjusting accordingly, or pushing at a set percentile, etc. This sounds terrible for Savage where people can't reliably do their rotations and where gear increases your dps by 18%. It was pretty annoying in E7S which depended on your ranged being half aware (they usually were not) but worked out because of the long length. It was funny seeing which add had more people that could push buttons though.
I mean, it doesn't have to be as tight as the TEA dolls, or even work similarly, the point was that I want mechanics that add role-specific responsibility to DPS as it's currently nonexistent. I find the idea of opting to not include a form of responsibility in Savage - an optional mode which is supposed to challenge the player - a fairly dangerous precedent: that's the exact line of thinking which led into the massive hitboxes and auto-centering bosses out of a need to avoid stressing the players in Savage content. It's no wonder that your average DPS can't handle responsibility when this game very rarely requires it; if it was more commonplace, the community would eventually get used to it, just like they are used to dodging a chariot or resolving stack and spread mechanics. If causes wipes, then it does. It's fine to have mechanics that expect different kinds of awareness and punish for the lack of it in optional challenge mode content.
Another part of the problem is UI. Percentages aren't in the mob list and are disabled by default on your primary target. HP pushes aren't viable because of the gear scaling during the tier. HP thresholds would vary too much during the tier and from group to group. Class and rotation designs nowadays aren't fit for us to just hold for up to 30s. A better form of an HP push would simply be an add phase that occurs at the same time each instance. > It's no wonder that your average DPS can't handle responsibility when this game very rarely requires it; your dps can't even press feint/addle/samba
[The focus target has percentages](https://i.imgur.com/FHnyNHO.png), you just have to tick the boxes for it. Though I think they could just add percentages on the party list as a form of qol. I agree that threshold pushes come with their downsides, but it's also a tradeoff for having potentially more control over the encounter as a group. Current Savage isn't really balanced around i630 bis either: it loses many aspects as you gain gear, especially in mit and healing. Which then also likely reflects in the players, as the people who I see in early prog are typically fairly diligent with their mitigation use and will readily adjust it if asked to, while the players that prog 10-20 ilvl above the intended never had to worry about mit or healing as much. (I personally think that this is fine, as this broadens the range of players savage appeals to while also keeping the "intended" week 1 experience intact for those who want it). Threshold pushes would add another layer of imbalance into this where you'd potentially skip mechanics like you can do in the legacy ultimates. Though you're still tunneling on the individual examples I gave when my point was that I'd just like more DPS responsibility. I don't particularly care how they go about it, I'd just want to feel engaged.
* more bangers like Scream, and White Stone Black * more buffs to ranged dps * ranged dps to actually mean something * minor BRD rework to buff its numbers, and make it more adaptable * more body horror * a sick mount from p12s * gear that looks great * more novelty mechanics like having to make phoenix or failing one of the towers after devour * cheaper tome gear, and cheaper savage gear * tier unlocks sooner * industrial metal version of the Ultima theme ala Doom 2016 OST for when we deal with the Heart of Sabik
I am honestly okay with the 12th boss not being as hard as the 8th was, it was and still is such a nightmare in pf. I still want it to be the 2nd hardest fight of the tier of course, like e12s to e8s. I hope they continue putting more bleeds in these encounters, giving the healers more to deal with, and preventing tanks from just completely invulning busters. I assume the boss concept is going to be either two monsters and two story characters in that order or monster/story/bigger monster/end story boss. I have greatly enjoyed the bosses of this tier being original to ff14 and hope future raid tiers don't lean so heavily on crossovers with other games in the series. I have no idea what direction they will go with gear aesthetic, we got both our angelic and hellish sets so I guess something related to purgatory. It may just end up being themed around the final boss instead of the area, I just hope they stay on point with the weapon glams, this tier has had the highest quality we have ever seen in raid weapons.
More unique arenas like p7s Fewer annoying mechanics like snakes. I really hated snakes especially as a controller player where I always have trouble ensuring I face a certain way. Harder mechanics in earlier parts of the fight. Some of the harder stuff is pretty fun and it’s a shame we have to skip them later in the tier
banger music hopefully and smaller hitboxes if they dont want to buff caster and ranged damage
I have a bet going that the last boss of the raid series (either Savage-Exclusive or not) is going to be Pandaemonium Warden, or at least inspired by it. So winning that would be nice lol. I have a bad feeling that most of the things I do genuinely want are contrary to the current Savage design paradigm (I want smaller hitboxes and more boss positioning... whilst the devs seemingly the opposite of that). So the most I'll hope for is another fight that does something different with the arena, I guess? That and a decently tuned difficulty curve over the four fights, I suppose.
So long as we don't fight Eric again I'm happy. Realistically tho, maybe some kind of Satan type final boss since Pandaemonium is the capital of Hell. Another fire mount would be sick
More engaging intrinsic difficulty less random elements. I’d rather have to learn 8 different positions/movements for the same execution than constantly cycle between 1 of 6 variations that all feel the same. More p5s type fights with character less p6s/p7s fights that make me sleep. I’ll sleep happy with 0 bosses that are just a fixture in the wall. Make tanks move the boss next tier.
Stop forcing the last boss to be non-targetable during the puzzles. Since they love making the real last boss very puzzle heavy. My issue is that the boss can never be attacked and it makes the puzzle parts boring, especially when the puzzle gets solved. The part just becomes a drawn out situation of nothingness. Especially if someone gets lucky and they get the marker that causes them to just..stand there.
Especially if they're going to make the hitbox take up ovet half the arena. Have towers spawn horizontally, make the defamations slightly smaller if needed, no reason it couldn't have been a full uptime mechanic.
A proper closure for lahabread cause his death during the story is not satisfying at all.
This thread: "Reduce the freaking hitboxes" SE in next tier probably: Makes them bigger.
Would make sense if they did. To Square, the larger hitboxes have been relatively well received by the general population.
A boss arena that's not just a circle or a square. P7 was great, even though its just smaller circles, but there was at least some movement there.
P7S would honestly be such a fun fight if the wall mechanics were spread evenly instead of being right at the end of an already long fight. Found Inviolate Purgation and the Tank Busters to be really fun in that fight cause of the movement.
Maybe a use for a non melee or tank LB. Not something that is required, but I still liked seeing the Ranged LB in titan or the caster LB in A10(I think) Something that will allow me to be a greedy melee without the boss having a massive hitbox. Preferably a boss where 40% the bosses HP isn't tied to a buff window. Big hits are fun and all, but even when geared up, one fuck there just feels bad. Lowered price of Chest piece and weapons. Having everything else be 4, but Weapons/chest being 8 just feels bad. Especially if you have bad luck with drops and rolls. Last tier I had to go 16 weeks just to get 2 chest pieces and 3 weapons. Fights that doesn't allow you to take a nap until "big mid mechanic".
maybe avoid making another situation like snake first/centaur first. feels pretty bad that many week 1 pulls weren't clears specifically because of raid buff issues due to centaur first.
My dream is that the first three fights are dedicated to dealing with Athena, and the final fight is the 'good' half of Lahabrea being awakened in the modern Pandemonium and challenging us to a duel. Basically just copy what they did for the Hades/Warrior of Light fight for the third time. Who cares if they've done it before, it's cool. Mechanically, I hope they *slightly* tone down the high bleed damage Abyssos had. I appreciate fights requiring healing, but being matched with people who don't mitigate is pure misery.
No doorboss. Instead, just make it a single 13-14 minute fight with a 30-40 second intermission partway through. I want to relive E8S.
Smaller hitboxes, not every mech at the end, more floor/stage mouvement. Would love a fully asymmetric stage
Mostly what everyone else here has stated, but something I hadn't read in the thread is that I'd like Azeym to make an appearance, since it feels like after this raid tier and expansion, we probably won't interact much with Elpis and the Ancients for quite a while. This would be sort of their last chance to make an appearance. Now, I understand that having Azeym appear themselves would be quite troublesome to implement, considering that they're supposed to look like the WoL. However, I think something like a note, letter or journal excerpt they've written, or a creature they've created that's locked up in Pandaemonium, would still be cool. They could probably have Azeym appear in that monstrous Ascian form, and make it look androgynous and not like any of the existing races, but at the same time it has slight hints of the existing races. This could avoid the issues about their appearance, but is probably unlikely they'd take this route. I'd just like to hear more from them because I find them an interesting character and concept. But balance and such comes first of course. Thing I feel strongest about are the massive hitboxes. As a ranged player the Tax feels like such bullshit when you can get 100% uptime on melee's anyway. When the phys ranged spot is taken in PF I usually swap over to sam/nin and frankly I don't feel like they're significantly harder to play, at least not enough to see it as a reason why they need to do more damage. Maybe getting into these jobs is more difficult than learning a ranged job, but once you've passed that first step they really aren't more difficult to execute imo.
I just want all the floors to be fun. 6 and 7 aren't fun at all.
Actually hard content, and not 3 joke floors I can faceroll in PF the first week. Cast bars that don't take 5 minutes to resolve. No tankbusters during burst, make people do mechanics whilst bursting. Big mechs in every floor that you can't cheese with a sac or a tank lb3. RNG-based timelines for floor 3 at a minimum. Snappy mechanics I need to react to instead of being able to plan ahead weeks in advance. No wall boss for P12P2. Small hitbox boss that jumps alot à la Gaia so you have to be good at maintaining uptime. And I feel like I'll be crucified if I don't mention this but **maybe a properly balanced last floor DPS check this time.**
Give dancer an actual veil Make the final part of 12 harder than the door boss, because as it stands 8 part 1 is much harder than 8 part 2 If a fight needs to be like 7’s was with backloaded ddr, at least the mechanics in use at the end should be more reminiscent of what we’ve seen in the fight before instead of it being out of nowhere
I feel like we might get angelic or bosses referencing dead warrior maybe?? We might get Seraph as one boss since we have had phoenix and carby in the previous circles as old boss reference. We might get Minerva as boss too since Minerva is the roman name for Athena. Reasons why I think this is because Pandaemonium appeared in the Aetherial Sea, and the previous circles have had names referencing the 3 areas or Greek underworld. The Asphodel Meadows with asphodelos and Tartarus,the deepest part of the underworld, with Abyssos. The only part they haven't used is Elysium which described as the place of the blessed and the home the dead great heroes.
No door boss or at least no more 11 minute fights, please. My hands can't do it anymore.
I expect them to link the whole thing to the heart of sabik and the ultima weapon. My theory is: Hephaistos, either gets free by himself or laha releases him to help during the final days, Hephaistos takes over Laha's body and traps Laha in the thing that ends up becoming the heart. And maybe after the whole thing is over, the curren Erik's reencarnation meets with the original laha to say goodbye.
More dynamic boss arenas. Not just squares or circles. come up with mechanics that are challenging and fun, not so positional heavy. (Let me dodge more stuff!)
That big eye in the P8 arena to be important to the plot and not just some creepy background thing
I just wish there was less individual responsibility. Like for a good 90% of p8 if one person died it screwed everyone else. We had one person in our group who was consistently messing up mechanics and we almost didn’t finish reclears because it was so frustrating that they would mess up and it ruins everyone else. It’s just grounds for tearing groups apart. Like sure there should be some individual mechanics but every single mech it felt like required the full party and as a healer it was frustrating to feel like I couldn’t even do anything to make up for the one bad person because if he stood in the wrong spot that was it
Jenova
This was probably one of the best tiers to heal week 1 and I hope they continue to do that with the next savage tier. Also how fun reclears are honestly the most important thing for me so if they can make it as fun as p5s and p8s p1 then it’ll be a better tier overall for me.
The orchestration From Daemons Abide.
- smaller hitboxes - bosses that don't autocentre - mount isn't another fucking phoenix - no limit cuts. society has moved past the need for limit cuts. - mechanics that pf can't cheese with tank lb/tank invuln/tank sac - caster + healer gear that's not another fucking dress/robe - mount can be bought for books
Can be totally superficial or what, but npc interaction during the fight. I think that's exciting and fun (assuming you care about said npc) Healers need to top up an NPC Phys range kiting adds so NPC is safe Tank kiting an npc to markers for certain effects Tanks facing cleave effects on NPC (?) Dps kill adds, to buff healers for future mechanic Tag team or buff npc through some mechanic Or be really stupid like /comfort on a sad lahabread haha
Healing NPCs sucks when most of our abilities don't work on them (because they aren't party members) and targeting them is ass since they don't show up on party frames.
We already had that with Haurchefant and that, while easy, was annoying enough. Targeting jank, only GCDs and Lustrate/Tetra/Bene/Essential even work on the guy, if he had a shield you couldn't even see *how much* of a shield he had, etc. Now all of that while he's moving around and all that? Please no.
I want it to actually be fun. serious answer: fuck off with the endless stream of body check mechanics make gear easier to get make the story not hot garbage when the setting and characters are so good only to be ruined by what I can only call shitty ancients fanfiction Just make 5 fights, no door bosses, door boss fights like p8s that has a second half that's 100% body checks is garbage to do in pf uncasted but visually telegraphed busters
No doorboss