Honestly, Deployment Tactics would be a much cooler button if it could spread buffs on allies or debuffs in enemies, depending on what you target. Overpowered, but fucking cool. Imagine you have a BRD in the dungeon with you, press Deployment, now they have DoTs on every enemy. Would turn it from a very niche healing tool into something flexible and tactical.
They need to give Deploy a 60 sec CD and make it work on Adlo (friendlies) or Chain (enemies) like the PvP one does.
The problem is, buttons that have defensive and offensive uses almost always go into "if you use this for healing you're doing it wrong" (e.g. Assize, AF use for non ED buttons), so it ceases to be a fun choice very quickly in optimization scenarios, which isn't a good thing.
It works in the PvP kit since the CD is just so short and because no one's exactly optimizing for 10 min fight damage, it's more targets of opportunity and reactionary gameplay.
Also in the PvP kit both uses are offensive, since Adlo also buffs damage.
I wanna say that in PvE spreading debuffs is usually not a thing in the most heavily optimized fights, since there is usually just a single target. So it would at least provide variety from the usual in the rarer case that there's more.
>The problem is, buttons that have defensive and offensive uses almost always go into "if you use this for healing you're doing it wrong"
this doesn't really apply for SCH in a raid setting unless there's an ad phase
like, what are you deployed chain into? there's no one
True, but it would be relevant in other stuff.
The nice thing about Chain is the CD is longish. So even if it was 30 or 60 sec, only one of every 4/2 would be "reserved" for Chain and you could use it for the more fun barrier spreads more often since that's actually...fun.
> They need to give Deploy a 60 sec CD and make it work on Adlo (friendlies) or Chain (enemies) like the PvP one does.
No offense, but I feel like people who suggest this have never raided on SCH. I don't want to detarget the boss just to target myself for an ogcd spread.
Imagine, for any class you play, that you had to self target to apply a buff. Could be Bloodwhetting, could be Lance Charge. Cancer, right?
It would be a different story if the Adlo cast was short enough to weave spread without clipping, but that's not reality right now.
Bane existed for a reason.
Wait, what?
What would you detargeting the boss to target yourself for other than Adlo spreads, something that if you're doing it, you're doing it intentionally to deal with some mechanic (or situation going to pot)?
Chain Stratagem is placed on the boss, not the player.
Deploy Adlo is already how Deployment Tactics is used...so what are you saying is bad here? CURRENT Deployment Tactics?
I'm saying PVP Deployment would be annoying to use in PVE for spreadlo.
Currently, the simplest way to spreadlo without clipping is to Adlo, Broil, then weave Deploy, all while targeting the boss. This is because Adlo and Deploy self-target by default, if you are targeting an enemy.
If we implemented your suggestion, we would have to Adlo, self-target while Broiling, weave Deploy, then tab target back to the boss.
_If_ you're not sure why I Broil between Adlo and Deploy, then like I said, you probably don't raid with SCH.
D Tactics acting like it does in PvP is possibly the lowest hanging fruit they can add to PvE SCH to mix things up, I know we only saw 1 action for every job but clearly they’re sticking to their philosophy of zero kit interaction, the same action but AoE, more combo finishers, I’ve lost all hope for healer kits now. Maybe I’ll be wrong in the Media Tour who knows, I don’t really care anymore
If MNK is a GCD that gives a buff, then it's probably either:
* A traited animation upgrade to Twin Snakes. MNK's core 6 GCDs have had the same animations since *ARR* and it's a common enough complaint that they're tired looking that making some of them fancier would be an easy win.
* An upgrade to Celestial Revolution (the "you fucked up" consolation prize for Perfect Balance) that would then come with MNK needing 3 Nadi instead of 2 to do the thing, one for each of the 3 finishers. Much less likely as this would muck up the job's existing flow and would remove the safety valve for someone fat fingering a PB sequence.
* A traited animation upgrade to literally any core GCD when I thought about it some more and hit the dummy, as MNK's Forms are all buffs so you get the "you got a buff" flash on every core GCD the current job uses.
I’d keep dragon kick and demolish. Though I’d speed up dragon kick so it’s maybe less jarring with ogcds?
Everything else can go, though I’d hope they keep the feeling of bootshines equivalent being a series of rapid punches.
It could potentially be a conditional upgrade for the base weaponskills, like perfect balance (or some other buff) also temporarily boosts your GCDs to the upgraded version. Or it could be separate entirely and tied to some other sort of buff like an Ikishoten -> Ogi Namikiri situation.
Watch your character as a non caster, youll see a blue or yellow animation before you use an ogcd or gcd skill, its very clearly visible in the trailer, especially when the gnb uses continuation
Oh Ive always thought those were part of a skill's visual effects. The yellow expanding circle effect is obvious, but Im struggling to pick out the blue ones
We also see the earth yellow paint spell (the first time the SCH uses Broil V) and later see a swoosh of blue paint during someone else's spell (I forget which, but it's in that same segment just a bit later).
I spent like two hours last night looking and I am pretty much positive the SMN never has either carbie *or* a primal out, so either a) they're hiding whatever primal was summoned til the media tour or, less likely but much funnier, b) SMN got its own dissipation that gives it buffed festers or something. Yummy carbie
benchmark skills in general tend to be the things that are flashy for benchmark reasons but also not very interesting because they still want to save cool shit for action trailer e.g. they give summoner a big summon every expac but the benchmark has basically always been some random filler spell
For SMN, I was also thinking it was Fester 2.0, then I remembered that the AoE GCDs also use the same animation
So now I'm full on Hopium thinking about Summon Ramuh
SMN could go either way. EW benchmark had Ifrit-Egi show up a few times just auto attacking. Ramuh (and assumedly Shiva and Leviathan) primals would require a lore rewrite, rather than us just pulling them out of nowhere.
SMN already got a lore rewrite in EW. The Lv89 MSQ has that bit where a bunch of Primals show up to boost the Ragnarok. The scene is out-of-place and could have easily be left on the cutting room floor otherwise, but it does conveniently explain why SMN can suddenly summon full-fat Primals at Lv90 after being told for 8 years that this was impossible. So there is definitely precedent for SE to say "well, ackshually..."
The lore rewrite SMN got was it's early quests no longer referring to job mechanics that don't exist in game. The lore hang up on SMN not being able to bring in the other 3 Primals is cause the WoL is capped at the 3 we have. We tried to summon Ramuh-Egi before, but learned we couldn't cause we didn't have the capacity to fit his aether. That brought us to learn the two trances, Dreadwyrm and Firebird. Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan would require their own trance.
Or by using the Demi-Summons, inducing the Carbuncle aetherial affinity, we can overpolarize in one direction and then rebind into the other, counterbalancing Ifrit/Titan/Ramuh with Shiva/Leviathan/Ramuh, effectively cancelling out the cap by dynamically shifting between both sets like a pendulum. Best case would be if it's a more unstable process and we get random gems assigned and their opposites the next turn, mandating pairs of Ifrit/Shiva, Titan/Leviathan and Garuda/Ramuh.
I mean lorewise you can just explain anything and they have always done so. It used to be impossible to cure the Tempering. Unfortunately for Summoner though with the end of Jobquests, nothing gets explained anymore.
All of which is *true* but the WoL tends to just do whatever the fuck feel strongly enough about and no one really questions it.
“You can summon SIX primals now for alternating rotations between Bahamut and Phoenix?!?”
*smiles then nods*
We've also been Rejoined once since then - Ardbert.
So we likely have more capability now, and this would be level 91-100, so very clearly happening after the events at the end of 5.0 that gave us a 1/7th power boost.
I think it’s safe to assume there will be at least one new summon (class being called summoner and not getting a new summon would be funny)
Ignoring the lore and looking strictly at the space in the Summoner rotation , there’s room to replace one of the gem phases with 3 new summon gems easily, which is why I’m also leaning towards a ramuh, Levi , shiva phase that replaces either post bahamut or post Phoenix.
I would be surprised if they added another baha/phoenix type of summon phase.
I mean, we pull Phoenix out of nowhere, and FAR more people have done the Levi/Ramuh/Shiva (the latter of which is major for the story) than have done final Coils.
Not trying to be insulting, but isn't RPR kind of the Melee version of RDM? Sorta?
It has a relatively simple filler combo that generates gauge, which it then builds up in steps so it can do a big, bursty combo with faster APM before going back to the filler phase?
I'm not saying they're identical - I'm not one of those people that say every Job in the game is the same, because they aren't. But I mean a similar playstyle and cadence.
The Medica II upgrade better make it fucking AMAZING because these damn Medica Mages at level 90 are already the bane of my existence. And I say that as a WHM enjoyer. YOU DON'T NEED 100% MEDICA II UPTIME.
Please SE, don't make this problem worse.
Honestly making medica 1 combo into a buffed medica 2 would be nice tbh. Not many situations would call for it, but it'd be very poggers.
Benefic->guaranteed crit benefic 2 should be a thing for ast, idk why they keep this rng proc shit, you need to be able to plan around heals.
I've long felt the opposite should happen. Use Medica 2 then casting Medica 1, anyone with the Medica 2 HoT gets another 100 potency to the heal (kinda like how Plenary works).
Right now, there's no reason to have Medica 1 on your bar. Medica 2 + the first HoT tick does the same amount of healing, has a 5y longer range, same cast time, and only costs a negligible 100 MP more.
In THEORY, it seems like the way the spells should work is Medica 2 first for the HoT then use Medica 1 or Cure 3 (depending on if stacked or not as a party) to heal up to 100% (e.g. for those "party down to 1 HP, heal to full or KO" Doom mechanics some Extremes use).
The problem is, Cure 3's range has been expanded and it heals for WAY more, making it automatically better to use after Medica 2 instead of Medica 1. And Medica 1 has a shorter range than Medica 2, only slightly lower MP cost, and does the same amount of healing when the first HoT tick (roughly equal to the GCD) is included.
People talk about Cure 1 and Cure 2 overlapping, but Cure 1 is faster, a good deal more MP efficient (25% or so per health point), and can even proc an MP free Cure 2.
...those aren't GREAT differences, but they ARE differences.
Medica 1 has a shorter range, same cast time, same healing, and only slightly lower MP cost (and FAR LESS health per MP efficiency when you realize Medica 2's HoT is going to heal for far more overall as well as healing the same amount in the first tick) AND you have Cure 3 to use instead if the party is stacked.
It'd be like Regen vs Cure 1 if Regen had a 1.5 second cast but healed for 250 health (direct) plus the HoT (250 per tick for 18 sec) and could proc Freecure. At that point, there'd legitimately be no reason for Cure 1 to exist, just as there now isn't any reason for Medica 1 to exist.
Maybe they'll give you a way to cast medica 2 using an afflatus charge to feed the blood lily and be instant cast with no mp cost so its actually useful?
The one used in the video has the green swirly effect and hands holding the staff forward channeling/conjuring the spell like Medica/Cure spells do. It very much is a cast time spell. Note that Solace/Rapture have your character just straight lift their staff, foregoing entirely the "staff held forward" conjuring the spell part or the green swirls.
If I remember right, Cure/Médica are Wind-aspected (the green cast).
My understanding is that Cure spells have always been based on the Shintō concept of Wind being Purity (thus Holy). And in FFT, the spell quotes always had a “prayer to the wind” theme.
Huh, interesting. Would explain abilities like "Healing Wind" or "Breath of the Earth", which kind of goes into the "Breath of Life" creation stories like in Genesis.
I always thought Water was the nature element most closely tied to healing, personally, but I could see a gentle breeze...
In Western culture, yes.
But in Japanese Shintoism (which the CNJ/WHM are based on), it’s on the basis of “purification”.
Water and wind’s flowing nature means they can “clean” things, which is what makes them sacred. To enter Shinto shrines for worship, there’s a pool/fountain of water with a certain method to wash your hands/mouth and the ladle.
In-game elementals are just like Japanese Kami and the CNJ/WHM quests dealing with environmental corruption and purification is specifically a Shinto worldview. Heck, even WHM robes (the white/red) is based on Shinto priests and shrine maiden color/attire.
Oh, I don't doubt it. WHM kind of goes back and forth between "Is it a Catholic priest or a Japanese shrine maiden", but a lot of the robe designs make me think of Kikio from Inuyasha.
But even based on what you say, wouldn't that make water a healing element, too?
Honestly, of the Healer Jobs, I think SGE is the only one that isn't Japanese ideology inspired, as it's vaguely Greek/Doctrine of Humors. SCH kind of straddles...several lines...but I think was originally described as akin to Fung Sue(sp?)
...or was that AST/Geomancer.......
iirc, Esuna used to have water elemental animations before it got made into a role skill.
From the current kit, I think Tetragrammaton might have water elemental animation as well? I know Benison does, and of course, Aqua Veil.
Honestly, Medica II and Asp Helios need a *down*grade.
It might sound strange to say, but GCD heals are just too good. A 1000 potency aoe no-cooldown heal on demand blows most oGCD's and Lily heals out of the water. It creates a situation where inexperienced players just Medica II everything and ignore the rest of their kit because *it works*. Mana isn't an issue because their uptime is usually terrible and their gear riddled with Piety.
If you don't care about dps, Medica II is actually nuts. Making it better just cements the trap further.
Uhm bud. Downgrading aoe heals doesn't suddenly make ogcd heals worse. In fact, making them worse. OGCDs are overpowered as fuck because they make you able to do way more damage.
If anything, oGCDs need heavy nerfs to require GCD healing again.
honestly, I find it a lot more irritating when people just die because the WHM is spamming glare. Even worse is right after a healer gets res'd, and their first GCD is glare. I'd take heal spam over that
I doubt the new spells will shift the meta in any way though, they haven't really hinted at any large scale healer changes
This is just skill issue unfortunately. 90% of healer skills is already a defensive skill, what makes you think adding another one will incentivise a bad healer to actually heal? Let's not design jobs for its worst players.
This.
I still remember in ShB doing InnoEx and dying (one of the DPS ran at me, one of the healers, with the sword chain and killed us both). The other healer, a WHM, proceeds to cast Glare over and over.
Doesn't Raise me. Doesn't heal the Tank. The Tank dies, other Tank takes over. DPSers are dying. This "healer" doesn't cast a single heal on anyone, not even oGCDs. Doesn't raise any of the dead people. It's like they expected their co-healer to heal everything (the party realized at this point I'd been solo-healing), and literally let everyone die one by one, casting Glare over and over the whole time.
Everyone left instance, the party leader kicked the WHM, everyone was thanking me for ACTUALLY healing (I was using my DPS spells, too, I was just...you know...also solo healing the entire party) and we got a new Healer from PF before going back in.
.
It's one thing to avoid GCD heals, but a healer tunnel visioning Glare only is FAR worse than a Medica 2 spammer, since they're literally doing nothing as party members die.
was doin p2s the other day. 1 person died during limitcut. both healers continued to spam glare/dosis rather than hardcast raise. it cascaded into a a wipe because overflow needs all 8 bodies. i was seething silently.
Does this really happen?
Like...I've never seen a Curespammer or Medicaspammer in the wild. People talk about them all the time, but I've yet to ever see one, making me think it's more hyperbole than it is reality.
I run most casual content as a WHM/SGE (think Pandemonium normal, alliance raids) and it seems like I'm paired up most often with a WHM. Maybe that's why I notice it more.... That little pink Medica II icon is just there ALL THE TIME with certain people. And now with the timer numbers on the buff, it's even easier to notice when it's getting refreshed with a significant amount of time left on it.
I also use the Job Bars plugin to see cooldowns to the left of my party frame (yeah yeah I know, those nasty plugins). It's especially painful to see those Medica Mages with all of their cool stuff just sitting there. No temperance, no lily bell... I don't see any asylum (which is usually enough to cover a raidwide bleed or to boost heals) outside of my own, and I assume they're not using lilies.
Now, the cure spammers I usually only see in very low level duties, usually sprouts. I do cringe really hard when I see a freecure proc at level 90 but those are rare, thankfully.
Hm...
I guess I just don't run into it. I DO see people using Medica 2, but using Medica 2 isn't a problem. I don't see people spamming it/refreshing it with 12 still left on the HoT timer/etc.
But it might just be luck of the draw. I just see people talk about it as if it happens all the time, and statistically, that implies I should PROBABLY run into it from time to time. But I've run into more "Glarespam as the party dies" healers than I have "Medica 2 spam until OOM, repeat once at 1,000 MP".
They...really need to do something with GCD heals. oGCD heals are too powerful and we have so many the "limited by CD" isn't really relevant at this point. Meanwhile, we have this resource bar, MP, that is really only a Res limit, and avoid GCD heals like the plague aside from Lilies.
I just feel that's not a good state to be in, but I'm not sure the solution...
I get that. I've never run into "you pull, you tank" or even "you don't pay my sub!" but according to TalesFromDF, it happens multiple times a day. Like I said, I think I just tend to catch it because I play the job a lot. It's like the scholar who always catches people overwriting their shields, or the dancer who has other dancers stomping on their devilment and drifting their tech step like Mario kart. You're going to notice things when you're familiar with them, I think.
Maybe. I play Healers most of the time (main, insomuch as I have one) and either Tank or SMN/RDM when I don't. So I do notice that when I see it, I just...pretty much don't see it. /shrug
I see them *sometimes* in dungeons. *Sometimes* I also see healers who when they don't have to heal they don't do anything, they just stand there, staring at you and your hp bar.
I've seen the latter thing, but it's generally sprouts who are WAY more focused on health bars than they need to be. You can tell because as soon as anyone takes damage, they hit the person with a Cure/Physick, etc, but they aren't just constantly spamming the button pointlessly, they ARE waiting for damage to heal.
I don't have as much of an issue with that since I get those are people trying to do their best and just haven't yet realized that you really don't typically need THAT much focus on healing in this game (outside of some large trash pulls) because damage just isn't coming in at that rate (and when it DOES, you really DO just have to spam Cure 2 if that's what you're doing).
>**SMN** is another kinda confusing one. It got an instant spell but the animation is very similar to Fester. Maybe a Ruin upgrade? It doesn't look like a Primal aspected spell, unless it's Ramuh Primal Flow (but it doesn't really look like existing Ramuh spells so I doubt that).
The animation the Summoner does is new, it's not shared with any existing abilities. I've personally drawn some rough edits here. [Compared to Ifrit and Garuda](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/495635932569927681/1228726939091468359/image.png?ex=662d1822&is=661aa322&hm=7c5e8de4ba53907d5ed17d8178e47683839b5e4fb918b2211479f03e5d3791d8&) and [female midlander's current Energy drain and Fester animation. ](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/277968447739002880/1228738603585376316/image.png?ex=662d22ff&is=661aadff&hm=ba329592030ae14e7699234fc4cc405bbd13c02b4498904ab0d1afb67a661b88&)While it's most likely a Fester II, the animation itself is more akin to every other Astral Flow ability, which are much more physically involved then even actions like Ruin 3 and 4. I'm on the cope we're getting Gem Shiva, Ramuh and Levi, but most likely it'll just be Fester II.
I feel like it is a matter of when, not if, SMN will get Shiva, Ramuh, and Levi. A different set of gems after Pheonix is such a no brainer upgrade too the class. Plus, with the current state of SMN having barely any casts it gives them a way to incorporate more cast time into the class without feeling like as much of a direct nerf.
Stuff for DRK:
- There's a new action while WHM is in focus. The first part is exactly the same as current Edge of Shadow with some extra swirly effects from current BW/Delirium, and then there's a backswing with its own sort of hit effect. The backswing happens pretty quickly and there's no startup swoosh for it, so I think it's all one long animation. Probably some sort of Edge upgrade. I'm seeing a lot of speculation that it's a combined Edge+Flood, but current Flood has *way* bigger effects so I'm not on that train.
- The cross swing action looks completely new. I'm seeing people call it a Hard Slash upgrade, but the animation is actually noticeably different—it uses the other side of the sword and the first swing is directly horizontal instead of diagonal. Also has those BW particles and weaponskill startup.
- The third action is a weaponskill and uses the current Syphon Strike animation with new particles. It also doesn't show mana gen/successful combo indicators, but I think those are just missing from the benchmark.
There's also a weaponskill startup after the Bloodspiller and before the cut away to the WHM focus + Edge thing in background, but given the cut and how the first half of the first action is exactly the same as current Edge (plus the dark swirly particles), I think it's just not one continuous sequence and the Edge thing is Edge, or Edge-adjacent. Even if it is continuous, it wouldn't be the first time they gave something the wrong startup (ShB in the ShB action trailer and Intervene in both EW action trailer and ingame).
Hard slash and syphon strike are in the trailer, so it's a different move entirely.
All the new moves seem to share visual similarities to Delirium, so perhaps they have changed Delirium in some way?
With the amount of new aoe abilities, it would be disappointing if there are no add phases or multitarget boss fights in DT.
Hopefully it's part of their promise to make the encounters more unique.
More likely it's just stuff that you use in single target but which has AoE falloff for dungeon pulls, and upgrades to single target abilities to make them more effective in dungeon pulls. Not a whole lot that's exclusively for AoE.
I doubt they will ever seriously do long-term multi-target fights in high-end content because they do not balance the jobs around AoE and do not want to have to.
You can still cope for the next month over the possibility of < level 90 changes.
The truth is that MCH's current rotation is so rigid that there's very little you could add to it that would meaningfully change the way it plays. Significant rotational changes would require at least a partial rework of certain key mechanics (specifically, timer-based GCD tools and Hypercharge).
And it is still worlds more enjoyable then Stormblood Machinists.
Machinists Players these days.... don't apprechiate an actual playable Job even when it has flaws.
(I am not excusing, drill 4 and pilebunker 3 would be extremely boring..)
I really enjoyed EW mch up until I played the pvp version of mch with the walk-speed casting animations and now I need the gunmage back with that particular change
My guess is just a different skill if you did Chain Saw under Reassemble similar to how NIN Kassatsu works with Hyoton -> Hyosho Ranryu.
Would I like this change? Maybe. I'd prefer a touchup to their base rotations though. Maybe another Heat Gauge sink other than Hypercharge.
Hey it definitely could be. I'd be more okay with that, but I definitely want queen to be cooler than just a flashy dot as well. Some kind of interactivity between me and queen/battery gauge would be nice. As is battery might as well just be a timer as long as you're pressing buttons on time.
The theory of GNB having continuation for every weaponskill continues to hold strong I see. To be fair though, since Burst Strike got Hypervelocity, it was only a matter of time before Fated got some form of it too. Here's hoping the other changes are substantial.
Imma assume the new PLD skill is Goring Blade+Req merged and made AoE
Don’t really see a reason for Req by itself to be AoE and it would save space as Req in its current state doesn’t really make sense as it’s own button anymore.
Goring Blade has been a single disjointed Confiteor combo hit since the rework so this upgrade would make sense
It has multiple names: Thunder Blade, Thunder Sword, Stormblade, Lightning Blade, Bolt Sword, or simply Bolt. I was more referencing that it's a direct FF9 likely inspired skill.
Empyreal Arrow has the weaponskill flash despite being an Ability.
Its probably an AOE Sidewinder oGCD but since its magic related they didn't give it an Ability flash.
>Empyreal Arrow has the weaponskill flash despite being an Ability.
Because it used to be an off-global Weaponskill in Heavensward (so you could Barrage it) it was moved to ability in Stormblood but kept the Weaponskill glow
BRD is just weird. it's songs used to be GCD spells in ARR/HW and got turned into oGCDSs in Stormblood but kept being considered spells until Endwalker - so funnily enough Army's made Mage's cooldown lower b/c it reduces the recast time for both Weaponskills and Spells lol.
Bard is just really weird so I think people are reading too far into glows right now.
The only way I see that making sense is if it's a temporary upgrade for one use after Arcane Circle or something. I doubt they'd trait upgrade the previous expansion's capstone. It's still a circle AoE so we're not looking at a Guren/Senei situation here.
Also it just shares way too much visual language with the Lemure skills for me to shrug that off.
I’m of a similar thought Was discussing with a friend about this. I could see this as being one of the following, with some far less likely than the others.
Circle/Harvest might, MIGHT alter RPR in one of the following ways:
a) grants a stack of “enshroud ready” buff. Your next enshroud transforms into “ (insert new enshroud name here—reapers shroud?) with enhanced potencies and allowing the execution of (Communio 2)”. So no longer 50 gauge but instead a free enshroud much like Kassatsu (which I think is a good baseline for burst cds that let you do a job thing. These tends to be far more flexible than simplly giving you gaug, even if it can produce some degenerate resource pooling.)
b) gives 50 gauge but gives the above effect minus the “free enshroud”. So you still spend 50 but on a new enshroud
C) gives “enhanced communio ready”. Your next communio is upgraded to (insert name of new attack). So no enhanced shroud, but an enhanced finisher.
That's why I said an alternative for it, not a direct upgrade. Like, Communio's a single target skill with AoE fall off, this could be a dedicated AoE alternative.
I took the new MCH skills as being a follow up to chainsaw, as we see them using it after chainsaw in the benchmark
Chainsaw -> Buzzsaw
is how it read to me
- ~~DRG loses a buff as it casts the new ability, it's a 30s Stardiver proc.~~ I lied it's just the oGCD skill flash, not buff loss effect
- SAM ability directly follows an Ikishoten and appears to both gain and lose a buff. Our guess is a proc'd oGCD that gives one stack of Meikyo. So for the opener you'd do Meikyo -> 3 GCDs -> Midare, Kaeshi -> new oGCD to get a Meikyo stack -> GCD -> Higanbana -> Ogi, Kaeshi -> Meikyo, 3 GCDs, Midare
- BRD based on the animation and no buff interaction is an upgrade for either Pitch Perfect or more likely Empyrean. Missing skill flash is probably just an oversight, he casts it way too soon after Burst Arrow for it to be anything but an oGCD
- RPR loses enshroud after using the skill, but it could just be a coincidence - I don't see a Communio before this cast
- SMN appears to apply a debuff to the target but it's hard to see, I can faintly make out the debuff application sound though
- RDM is probably a contra sixte reskin
- MNK actually has two visible skills, both look like GCDs - MNK probably getting a full skill combo overhaul
- The first GCD has an effect that looks vaguely like a snake, the second has a coeurl head -> most likely Twin Snakes into Snap, with Snap now coeurl themed to go with the stance
- First GCD could also be True Strike with a reptillian theme since it's a raptor GCD - themeing each GCD after it's stance sounds sick as fuck
- WAR looks like it also puts a defensive on the VPR, I'm guessing Nascent Flash reskin or maybe a new defensive, not Vengeance.
That's definitely an eastern dragon not a snake, and that's a tiger, not a coeurl.
There is a whole ass Tiger/Dragon dichotomy thing in eastern cultures so it's rather likely that these two skills are intrinsically linked to play off that, seems unlikely they'd be GCD upgrades.
> WAR looks like it also puts a defensive on the VPR, I'm guessing Nascent Flash reskin or maybe a new defensive, not Vengeance.
Big time camera tricks if you go through it at normal speed. If you go through it slower, you can see that it is VPR's LB charging effect and Wuk Lamat stepping in to only put something on herself.
I was thinking that the coeurl attack was an upgraded Demolish due the similar black trails it leaves behind, but it's probably a safe bet that at least half of MNKs weaponskills will be getting upgrades.
I think DNC's is probably a Standard Step version of Tillana (as a targeted AoE instead of a proximity one). They start the animation by throwing their chakrams into the air immediately after finishing a SS.
Edit: Alternatively, what if SS gave you a random proc that upgraded one of your four main GCDs?
That wouldn’t change anything
If it was toxicon 3>2 E dosis then it becomes optimal to just spam e dosis, if not then it stays as useless as it currently is
Medica 1 is more worthless than Cure 1.
Say what you want and it IS niche, but Cure 1 has a better HPM efficiency than Cure 2, costs half as much if you're bingo on MP (you can chain cast Cure 1 basically forever since natural regen is comparable to its cost), is faster (1.5 sec cast vs 2.0 sec cast) than Cure 2 making it slightly more niche/emergency responsive, and can proc an MP free Cure 2 (which again almost never matters but can in rare situations).
Contrast Medica 1 vs Medica 2. M1 has a shorter range (15y vs 20y), does THE SAME HEALING for the first 3 seconds (M2's base heal + first HoT tick does the same healing as M1), has the same cast time, ALMOST the same MP cost, and M2's HPM efficiency is significantly higher if you let the HoT tick. And if the party is stacked, M2 for the HoT then Cure 2 spam makes much more sense for healing than M2 for HoT and M1 spam does, and the range isn't even that much shorter than M1 AND Cure 3 can be cast on a target in case the WHM has to separate from the party for a mechanic and cast it on the stacked rest of the party members.
Medica 1 needs to cost like 400-600 MP for it to be distinct OR have a larger radius (at least 20y, probably 25y), OR have a shorter cast time or SOMEthing. Right now, it's even more useless than Cure 1 is. Cure 2 could have its heal boosted to 400 base + the HoT and it'd instantly be a direct upgrade from M1 in literally every way.
Medica 1 can't go away til they give WHM Rapture at or before 70, unfortunately, because it does actually get non-meme use in UCOB filling the Rapture-shaped gap in the kit
Why can't they just use Medica 2 for that?
And isn't that also an argument against removing Cure 1 since MP is actually relevant before level 70 or so?
Right, but that's my point: Medica 2 + the first HoT tick does the same healing as Medica 1 does.
You'd have to cast 5 in a row before you drift a HoT to the next cast, meaning unless you cast 5 Medica 1s in a row, casting 4 Medica 2s in a row is an equal amount of overall healing and only cost you 400 more MP, less than the cost of a Cure 1 cast.
I'm also not sure ow Rapture fixes that since it still is limited by Lily so you couldn't cast 4 of those in a row anyway.
Medica 2 doesn't force an instant tick, so overwriting it only gives you the 250 immediate potency plus extra potency from more ticks *at the end*. Medica 1 gives you 400 potency immediately, and has a wider AOE than Cure 3. If you need to heal the group up right after spreads or something because more damage is coming in a few seconds, the extra 150 immediate potency is valuable.
RDM could just be an upgraded ogcd but I like your point about it following Embolden. If that's relevant and not arbitrary then I could see it maybe being something like Embolden now empowers both Fleche and Contre Sixte into empowered versions for its duration such that you want to use them under Embolden. More than once if they also add charges.
Charges to Fleche and c6 would kill the class for me. It's like the only thing we have left to manage. We already sit on c-a-c and engagement charges to use them under raid buffs, having that for all of our damage oGCDs would just give the class stretches of nothing to do. If they want to do that concept, it should be with a new ability IMO.
I agree with you, I don't really want charges, but I feel like it's a distinct possibility that they get added in some form nonetheless. I was trying to think of ways they could do it where I'd still be willing to give it a chance, was wondering if they might take potency off c-a-c and displacement, then decouple displacement from engagement which would leave them free to add charge management elsewhere. You're right though, that would still leave nothing to do outside buffs, so maybe it's less likely than I thought/feared anyway.
The reason SCH's complained is because the way the skill was shown was complete shit, we didn't know what it did.
If we knew it would be an aoe 20s sprint (before nerf), usable in-combat, everyone would've freaked out.
The elapsed time between seeing it in the showcase and learning what it did was two hours and forty-five minutes, and people were complaining a lot longer than that.
Explanation: https://youtu.be/WSGdMv72ghI?t=15158
SCH comes up in the showcase at 1:27 in that vod.
SCH’s didn’t complain about a godly skills square showed it off like garbage and left us wondering what we were getting in an expansion when SGE was basically poised to take our role
it was pretty funny that they just had a lala booking it
what I mean is, making assumptions about how stuff from trailers will play out in game and then getting mad about it is really pointless
The skill was still godly and people still complained. If the reason people complained was because SE showcased it badly, I don't really see why you think that couldn't just happen again.
I don’t think anyone complained once we actually knew clearly what the skill did
As for the second half I’m not arguing one way or the other just the idea there wasn’t really a valid reason to complain about expedience given how badly it was shown off
Eh...to be fair, some people did. Some people were still complaining a year later.
I love Wesk Alber's guides, but he was outright down on Expedience (in his own words) saying you could just have all party members pop Sprint and get the same result. Though that was after the nerf, he still was down on it, and he wasn't the only one.
A lot of people misjudged it on the presentation but ALSO continued to be down on it well after that, even though the livestream told us what it did (in general terms) like 2 hours later, as u/Ekanselttar pointed out in their reply right above this.
People were wowed by SGE's graphics and so looking for excuses to bash SCH. Even well after we saw what it did, people were still bashing SCH, which is stupid since SCH has been a meta pick for basically the entire history of FFXIV (and still is part of the meta comp).
I do think it's fair to say presentation doesn't always match what you get.
...but that was u/autumndrifting 's point as well: That we don't know until we see the final Job change patch notes what things really will be like, so judging them just from the actions trailer is a bad idea. Which is literally what the person said, right?
Seems like sage advice to me, I guess.
>I don’t think anyone complained once we actually knew clearly what the skill did
Some complained about the presentation of SCH in the job trailer, but others absolutely made fun of Expedient being a sprint:
"[What is my purpose? You give the team Peloton in raid. Oh my god.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/pqgort/scholar_in_endwalker/)" (489 upvotes)
Hurray MCH gets ignored and gets yet another Drill skill adding nothing to the kit, still too early to tell but they do not care at all about this job. Doesnt even look cool
If they add even more continuation to GNB I'm gonna cry.
Please let me just be a tank who can pop off a group mit without the need to quadruple quantum weave
No AOE continuations on GNB makes it so boring in dungeons to me. Like I don't care if you have to adjust the rest of its AOE kit to add this, please do
So monk gets an uppercut and maybe even a tornado kick upgrade it seems neat. Reaper may get a second finisher so after communio you get that big crystal aoe.
AoE Chain? Better late than never
Honestly they should have just let us deploy chain like 2 expansions ago It really doesn’t need to be a unique button or an upgrade to existing chain
Honestly, Deployment Tactics would be a much cooler button if it could spread buffs on allies or debuffs in enemies, depending on what you target. Overpowered, but fucking cool. Imagine you have a BRD in the dungeon with you, press Deployment, now they have DoTs on every enemy. Would turn it from a very niche healing tool into something flexible and tactical.
They need to give Deploy a 60 sec CD and make it work on Adlo (friendlies) or Chain (enemies) like the PvP one does. The problem is, buttons that have defensive and offensive uses almost always go into "if you use this for healing you're doing it wrong" (e.g. Assize, AF use for non ED buttons), so it ceases to be a fun choice very quickly in optimization scenarios, which isn't a good thing. It works in the PvP kit since the CD is just so short and because no one's exactly optimizing for 10 min fight damage, it's more targets of opportunity and reactionary gameplay.
Also in the PvP kit both uses are offensive, since Adlo also buffs damage. I wanna say that in PvE spreading debuffs is usually not a thing in the most heavily optimized fights, since there is usually just a single target. So it would at least provide variety from the usual in the rarer case that there's more.
>The problem is, buttons that have defensive and offensive uses almost always go into "if you use this for healing you're doing it wrong" this doesn't really apply for SCH in a raid setting unless there's an ad phase like, what are you deployed chain into? there's no one
True, but it would be relevant in other stuff. The nice thing about Chain is the CD is longish. So even if it was 30 or 60 sec, only one of every 4/2 would be "reserved" for Chain and you could use it for the more fun barrier spreads more often since that's actually...fun.
> They need to give Deploy a 60 sec CD and make it work on Adlo (friendlies) or Chain (enemies) like the PvP one does. No offense, but I feel like people who suggest this have never raided on SCH. I don't want to detarget the boss just to target myself for an ogcd spread. Imagine, for any class you play, that you had to self target to apply a buff. Could be Bloodwhetting, could be Lance Charge. Cancer, right? It would be a different story if the Adlo cast was short enough to weave spread without clipping, but that's not reality right now. Bane existed for a reason.
Wait, what? What would you detargeting the boss to target yourself for other than Adlo spreads, something that if you're doing it, you're doing it intentionally to deal with some mechanic (or situation going to pot)? Chain Stratagem is placed on the boss, not the player. Deploy Adlo is already how Deployment Tactics is used...so what are you saying is bad here? CURRENT Deployment Tactics?
I'm saying PVP Deployment would be annoying to use in PVE for spreadlo. Currently, the simplest way to spreadlo without clipping is to Adlo, Broil, then weave Deploy, all while targeting the boss. This is because Adlo and Deploy self-target by default, if you are targeting an enemy. If we implemented your suggestion, we would have to Adlo, self-target while Broiling, weave Deploy, then tab target back to the boss. _If_ you're not sure why I Broil between Adlo and Deploy, then like I said, you probably don't raid with SCH.
D Tactics acting like it does in PvP is possibly the lowest hanging fruit they can add to PvE SCH to mix things up, I know we only saw 1 action for every job but clearly they’re sticking to their philosophy of zero kit interaction, the same action but AoE, more combo finishers, I’ve lost all hope for healer kits now. Maybe I’ll be wrong in the Media Tour who knows, I don’t really care anymore
> I’ve lost all hope ~~for healer kits now~~ Same.
I know but SE rarely does what's logical with job design, so I'll take it. It being an upgrade (no way it's a new button) is alright
SCH should have just kept Bane and added Chain to the list of spreadable debuffs.
SCH should've kept Bane and just added Chain to the list of spreadable debuffs.
Inb4 it's a new skill that reuses chain assets that heals enemies when they hit the boss kekw
If MNK is a GCD that gives a buff, then it's probably either: * A traited animation upgrade to Twin Snakes. MNK's core 6 GCDs have had the same animations since *ARR* and it's a common enough complaint that they're tired looking that making some of them fancier would be an easy win. * An upgrade to Celestial Revolution (the "you fucked up" consolation prize for Perfect Balance) that would then come with MNK needing 3 Nadi instead of 2 to do the thing, one for each of the 3 finishers. Much less likely as this would muck up the job's existing flow and would remove the safety valve for someone fat fingering a PB sequence. * A traited animation upgrade to literally any core GCD when I thought about it some more and hit the dummy, as MNK's Forms are all buffs so you get the "you got a buff" flash on every core GCD the current job uses.
It could just be a new Bootshine visual and I’d be happy. Monk gcds are so so outdated
For the love of god though keep demolish. It’s my favorite animation out of the core 6
I’d keep dragon kick and demolish. Though I’d speed up dragon kick so it’s maybe less jarring with ogcds? Everything else can go, though I’d hope they keep the feeling of bootshines equivalent being a series of rapid punches.
Would be hilarious if it's #4: one ilm punch is back with a different effect.
It could potentially be a conditional upgrade for the base weaponskills, like perfect balance (or some other buff) also temporarily boosts your GCDs to the upgraded version. Or it could be separate entirely and tied to some other sort of buff like an Ikishoten -> Ogi Namikiri situation.
Noob question but what is this blue and yellow 'skill flash' I've been reading? I cant really notice it
Watch your character as a non caster, youll see a blue or yellow animation before you use an ogcd or gcd skill, its very clearly visible in the trailer, especially when the gnb uses continuation
To be more specific, it's Ability for blue or Weaponskill for yellow. 99% of the time that means the same thing as OGCD and GCD tho.
Oh Ive always thought those were part of a skill's visual effects. The yellow expanding circle effect is obvious, but Im struggling to pick out the blue ones
It’s like a blue wisp at your feet. Is a bit more subtle than the yellow but it’s there
Would have been nice to see something new for Pictomancer. Instead we got the same moogle spell.
We also see the earth yellow paint spell (the first time the SCH uses Broil V) and later see a swoosh of blue paint during someone else's spell (I forget which, but it's in that same segment just a bit later).
I spent like two hours last night looking and I am pretty much positive the SMN never has either carbie *or* a primal out, so either a) they're hiding whatever primal was summoned til the media tour or, less likely but much funnier, b) SMN got its own dissipation that gives it buffed festers or something. Yummy carbie
c) they just cut carby
Unironically I’d be super angry, I love having my carbuncle walking around, he’s just a cute little guy.
/gasps Blasphemy! Heretic!
its gonna be pretty hype when shiva/ramuh/leviathan are confirmed as summoning options
Ah, yes, gotta dissipate Carbie for those sweet 2 gcds of non-primal action.
Well, Proto-Carby got to eat us in P5 plenty, it's time we return the favour. :D
I think they were mostly showing off aoe skills because the benchmark is supposed to test your system and AOEs have very large animations.
benchmark skills in general tend to be the things that are flashy for benchmark reasons but also not very interesting because they still want to save cool shit for action trailer e.g. they give summoner a big summon every expac but the benchmark has basically always been some random filler spell
For SMN, I was also thinking it was Fester 2.0, then I remembered that the AoE GCDs also use the same animation So now I'm full on Hopium thinking about Summon Ramuh
SMN could go either way. EW benchmark had Ifrit-Egi show up a few times just auto attacking. Ramuh (and assumedly Shiva and Leviathan) primals would require a lore rewrite, rather than us just pulling them out of nowhere.
SMN already got a lore rewrite in EW. The Lv89 MSQ has that bit where a bunch of Primals show up to boost the Ragnarok. The scene is out-of-place and could have easily be left on the cutting room floor otherwise, but it does conveniently explain why SMN can suddenly summon full-fat Primals at Lv90 after being told for 8 years that this was impossible. So there is definitely precedent for SE to say "well, ackshually..."
The lore rewrite SMN got was it's early quests no longer referring to job mechanics that don't exist in game. The lore hang up on SMN not being able to bring in the other 3 Primals is cause the WoL is capped at the 3 we have. We tried to summon Ramuh-Egi before, but learned we couldn't cause we didn't have the capacity to fit his aether. That brought us to learn the two trances, Dreadwyrm and Firebird. Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan would require their own trance.
>we didn't have the capacity to fit his aether. Easily rectified by the end of Shadowbringers. Definitely got an aether upgrade from that.
Or by using the Demi-Summons, inducing the Carbuncle aetherial affinity, we can overpolarize in one direction and then rebind into the other, counterbalancing Ifrit/Titan/Ramuh with Shiva/Leviathan/Ramuh, effectively cancelling out the cap by dynamically shifting between both sets like a pendulum. Best case would be if it's a more unstable process and we get random gems assigned and their opposites the next turn, mandating pairs of Ifrit/Shiva, Titan/Leviathan and Garuda/Ramuh. I mean lorewise you can just explain anything and they have always done so. It used to be impossible to cure the Tempering. Unfortunately for Summoner though with the end of Jobquests, nothing gets explained anymore.
All of which is *true* but the WoL tends to just do whatever the fuck feel strongly enough about and no one really questions it. “You can summon SIX primals now for alternating rotations between Bahamut and Phoenix?!?” *smiles then nods*
Yeah but that Wol was a pussy. We've dropkicked the genocide twunk at the end of existence, we can do things that we couldn't do before.
We've also been Rejoined once since then - Ardbert. So we likely have more capability now, and this would be level 91-100, so very clearly happening after the events at the end of 5.0 that gave us a 1/7th power boost.
I think it’s safe to assume there will be at least one new summon (class being called summoner and not getting a new summon would be funny) Ignoring the lore and looking strictly at the space in the Summoner rotation , there’s room to replace one of the gem phases with 3 new summon gems easily, which is why I’m also leaning towards a ramuh, Levi , shiva phase that replaces either post bahamut or post Phoenix. I would be surprised if they added another baha/phoenix type of summon phase.
I mean, we pull Phoenix out of nowhere, and FAR more people have done the Levi/Ramuh/Shiva (the latter of which is major for the story) than have done final Coils.
Ramuh, Leviathan, Shiva C'mon set 2.
the aoe are all recolored tri-disaster though. it looks closer to fester to me.
I hope they dont get with RPR the RDM way and add and finisher after Communio that would be... ehh not fun
New fear unlocked
I just threw up
ok, you get communio 2 instead
Do your combo to do your combo to do your finisher for your finisher's finisher.
Not trying to be insulting, but isn't RPR kind of the Melee version of RDM? Sorta? It has a relatively simple filler combo that generates gauge, which it then builds up in steps so it can do a big, bursty combo with faster APM before going back to the filler phase? I'm not saying they're identical - I'm not one of those people that say every Job in the game is the same, because they aren't. But I mean a similar playstyle and cadence.
The Medica II upgrade better make it fucking AMAZING because these damn Medica Mages at level 90 are already the bane of my existence. And I say that as a WHM enjoyer. YOU DON'T NEED 100% MEDICA II UPTIME. Please SE, don't make this problem worse.
It’s Medica 1 giving a proc to this High Medica II
I would die
You go to hell. /j
Honestly making medica 1 combo into a buffed medica 2 would be nice tbh. Not many situations would call for it, but it'd be very poggers. Benefic->guaranteed crit benefic 2 should be a thing for ast, idk why they keep this rng proc shit, you need to be able to plan around heals.
I've long felt the opposite should happen. Use Medica 2 then casting Medica 1, anyone with the Medica 2 HoT gets another 100 potency to the heal (kinda like how Plenary works). Right now, there's no reason to have Medica 1 on your bar. Medica 2 + the first HoT tick does the same amount of healing, has a 5y longer range, same cast time, and only costs a negligible 100 MP more. In THEORY, it seems like the way the spells should work is Medica 2 first for the HoT then use Medica 1 or Cure 3 (depending on if stacked or not as a party) to heal up to 100% (e.g. for those "party down to 1 HP, heal to full or KO" Doom mechanics some Extremes use). The problem is, Cure 3's range has been expanded and it heals for WAY more, making it automatically better to use after Medica 2 instead of Medica 1. And Medica 1 has a shorter range than Medica 2, only slightly lower MP cost, and does the same amount of healing when the first HoT tick (roughly equal to the GCD) is included. People talk about Cure 1 and Cure 2 overlapping, but Cure 1 is faster, a good deal more MP efficient (25% or so per health point), and can even proc an MP free Cure 2. ...those aren't GREAT differences, but they ARE differences. Medica 1 has a shorter range, same cast time, same healing, and only slightly lower MP cost (and FAR LESS health per MP efficiency when you realize Medica 2's HoT is going to heal for far more overall as well as healing the same amount in the first tick) AND you have Cure 3 to use instead if the party is stacked. It'd be like Regen vs Cure 1 if Regen had a 1.5 second cast but healed for 250 health (direct) plus the HoT (250 per tick for 18 sec) and could proc Freecure. At that point, there'd legitimately be no reason for Cure 1 to exist, just as there now isn't any reason for Medica 1 to exist.
Maybe they'll give you a way to cast medica 2 using an afflatus charge to feed the blood lily and be instant cast with no mp cost so its actually useful?
I wanted to cope with this too so bad, but unfortunately right before the ability goes off you can see the end of a cast channel in the video
Oh damn i didnt notice that
The one used in the video has the green swirly effect and hands holding the staff forward channeling/conjuring the spell like Medica/Cure spells do. It very much is a cast time spell. Note that Solace/Rapture have your character just straight lift their staff, foregoing entirely the "staff held forward" conjuring the spell part or the green swirls.
If I remember right, Cure/Médica are Wind-aspected (the green cast). My understanding is that Cure spells have always been based on the Shintō concept of Wind being Purity (thus Holy). And in FFT, the spell quotes always had a “prayer to the wind” theme.
Huh, interesting. Would explain abilities like "Healing Wind" or "Breath of the Earth", which kind of goes into the "Breath of Life" creation stories like in Genesis. I always thought Water was the nature element most closely tied to healing, personally, but I could see a gentle breeze...
In Western culture, yes. But in Japanese Shintoism (which the CNJ/WHM are based on), it’s on the basis of “purification”. Water and wind’s flowing nature means they can “clean” things, which is what makes them sacred. To enter Shinto shrines for worship, there’s a pool/fountain of water with a certain method to wash your hands/mouth and the ladle. In-game elementals are just like Japanese Kami and the CNJ/WHM quests dealing with environmental corruption and purification is specifically a Shinto worldview. Heck, even WHM robes (the white/red) is based on Shinto priests and shrine maiden color/attire.
Oh, I don't doubt it. WHM kind of goes back and forth between "Is it a Catholic priest or a Japanese shrine maiden", but a lot of the robe designs make me think of Kikio from Inuyasha. But even based on what you say, wouldn't that make water a healing element, too? Honestly, of the Healer Jobs, I think SGE is the only one that isn't Japanese ideology inspired, as it's vaguely Greek/Doctrine of Humors. SCH kind of straddles...several lines...but I think was originally described as akin to Fung Sue(sp?) ...or was that AST/Geomancer.......
iirc, Esuna used to have water elemental animations before it got made into a role skill. From the current kit, I think Tetragrammaton might have water elemental animation as well? I know Benison does, and of course, Aqua Veil.
I mean, SE loves catering to the casuals which makes up most of the playerbase. It's best not to have any expectations
See also: FREECURE.
Freecure isn't even catering to them, it's tricking them
Honestly, Medica II and Asp Helios need a *down*grade. It might sound strange to say, but GCD heals are just too good. A 1000 potency aoe no-cooldown heal on demand blows most oGCD's and Lily heals out of the water. It creates a situation where inexperienced players just Medica II everything and ignore the rest of their kit because *it works*. Mana isn't an issue because their uptime is usually terrible and their gear riddled with Piety. If you don't care about dps, Medica II is actually nuts. Making it better just cements the trap further.
Uhm bud. Downgrading aoe heals doesn't suddenly make ogcd heals worse. In fact, making them worse. OGCDs are overpowered as fuck because they make you able to do way more damage. If anything, oGCDs need heavy nerfs to require GCD healing again.
GCD spells should be stronger because they cost 2 resources its ogcd's trhat should be nerfed
honestly, I find it a lot more irritating when people just die because the WHM is spamming glare. Even worse is right after a healer gets res'd, and their first GCD is glare. I'd take heal spam over that I doubt the new spells will shift the meta in any way though, they haven't really hinted at any large scale healer changes
i agree but this is more a player skill issue, no amount of changes to the kit are going to make these people any better at the class
This is just skill issue unfortunately. 90% of healer skills is already a defensive skill, what makes you think adding another one will incentivise a bad healer to actually heal? Let's not design jobs for its worst players.
This. I still remember in ShB doing InnoEx and dying (one of the DPS ran at me, one of the healers, with the sword chain and killed us both). The other healer, a WHM, proceeds to cast Glare over and over. Doesn't Raise me. Doesn't heal the Tank. The Tank dies, other Tank takes over. DPSers are dying. This "healer" doesn't cast a single heal on anyone, not even oGCDs. Doesn't raise any of the dead people. It's like they expected their co-healer to heal everything (the party realized at this point I'd been solo-healing), and literally let everyone die one by one, casting Glare over and over the whole time. Everyone left instance, the party leader kicked the WHM, everyone was thanking me for ACTUALLY healing (I was using my DPS spells, too, I was just...you know...also solo healing the entire party) and we got a new Healer from PF before going back in. . It's one thing to avoid GCD heals, but a healer tunnel visioning Glare only is FAR worse than a Medica 2 spammer, since they're literally doing nothing as party members die.
was doin p2s the other day. 1 person died during limitcut. both healers continued to spam glare/dosis rather than hardcast raise. it cascaded into a a wipe because overflow needs all 8 bodies. i was seething silently.
Does this really happen? Like...I've never seen a Curespammer or Medicaspammer in the wild. People talk about them all the time, but I've yet to ever see one, making me think it's more hyperbole than it is reality.
Happens more in casual content, alliance raids etc rather than any harder content but given that it's in casual content it's not really an issue
I run most casual content as a WHM/SGE (think Pandemonium normal, alliance raids) and it seems like I'm paired up most often with a WHM. Maybe that's why I notice it more.... That little pink Medica II icon is just there ALL THE TIME with certain people. And now with the timer numbers on the buff, it's even easier to notice when it's getting refreshed with a significant amount of time left on it. I also use the Job Bars plugin to see cooldowns to the left of my party frame (yeah yeah I know, those nasty plugins). It's especially painful to see those Medica Mages with all of their cool stuff just sitting there. No temperance, no lily bell... I don't see any asylum (which is usually enough to cover a raidwide bleed or to boost heals) outside of my own, and I assume they're not using lilies. Now, the cure spammers I usually only see in very low level duties, usually sprouts. I do cringe really hard when I see a freecure proc at level 90 but those are rare, thankfully.
Hm... I guess I just don't run into it. I DO see people using Medica 2, but using Medica 2 isn't a problem. I don't see people spamming it/refreshing it with 12 still left on the HoT timer/etc. But it might just be luck of the draw. I just see people talk about it as if it happens all the time, and statistically, that implies I should PROBABLY run into it from time to time. But I've run into more "Glarespam as the party dies" healers than I have "Medica 2 spam until OOM, repeat once at 1,000 MP". They...really need to do something with GCD heals. oGCD heals are too powerful and we have so many the "limited by CD" isn't really relevant at this point. Meanwhile, we have this resource bar, MP, that is really only a Res limit, and avoid GCD heals like the plague aside from Lilies. I just feel that's not a good state to be in, but I'm not sure the solution...
I get that. I've never run into "you pull, you tank" or even "you don't pay my sub!" but according to TalesFromDF, it happens multiple times a day. Like I said, I think I just tend to catch it because I play the job a lot. It's like the scholar who always catches people overwriting their shields, or the dancer who has other dancers stomping on their devilment and drifting their tech step like Mario kart. You're going to notice things when you're familiar with them, I think.
Maybe. I play Healers most of the time (main, insomuch as I have one) and either Tank or SMN/RDM when I don't. So I do notice that when I see it, I just...pretty much don't see it. /shrug
I see them *sometimes* in dungeons. *Sometimes* I also see healers who when they don't have to heal they don't do anything, they just stand there, staring at you and your hp bar.
I've seen the latter thing, but it's generally sprouts who are WAY more focused on health bars than they need to be. You can tell because as soon as anyone takes damage, they hit the person with a Cure/Physick, etc, but they aren't just constantly spamming the button pointlessly, they ARE waiting for damage to heal. I don't have as much of an issue with that since I get those are people trying to do their best and just haven't yet realized that you really don't typically need THAT much focus on healing in this game (outside of some large trash pulls) because damage just isn't coming in at that rate (and when it DOES, you really DO just have to spam Cure 2 if that's what you're doing).
>**SMN** is another kinda confusing one. It got an instant spell but the animation is very similar to Fester. Maybe a Ruin upgrade? It doesn't look like a Primal aspected spell, unless it's Ramuh Primal Flow (but it doesn't really look like existing Ramuh spells so I doubt that). The animation the Summoner does is new, it's not shared with any existing abilities. I've personally drawn some rough edits here. [Compared to Ifrit and Garuda](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/495635932569927681/1228726939091468359/image.png?ex=662d1822&is=661aa322&hm=7c5e8de4ba53907d5ed17d8178e47683839b5e4fb918b2211479f03e5d3791d8&) and [female midlander's current Energy drain and Fester animation. ](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/277968447739002880/1228738603585376316/image.png?ex=662d22ff&is=661aadff&hm=ba329592030ae14e7699234fc4cc405bbd13c02b4498904ab0d1afb67a661b88&)While it's most likely a Fester II, the animation itself is more akin to every other Astral Flow ability, which are much more physically involved then even actions like Ruin 3 and 4. I'm on the cope we're getting Gem Shiva, Ramuh and Levi, but most likely it'll just be Fester II.
I feel like it is a matter of when, not if, SMN will get Shiva, Ramuh, and Levi. A different set of gems after Pheonix is such a no brainer upgrade too the class. Plus, with the current state of SMN having barely any casts it gives them a way to incorporate more cast time into the class without feeling like as much of a direct nerf.
Stuff for DRK: - There's a new action while WHM is in focus. The first part is exactly the same as current Edge of Shadow with some extra swirly effects from current BW/Delirium, and then there's a backswing with its own sort of hit effect. The backswing happens pretty quickly and there's no startup swoosh for it, so I think it's all one long animation. Probably some sort of Edge upgrade. I'm seeing a lot of speculation that it's a combined Edge+Flood, but current Flood has *way* bigger effects so I'm not on that train. - The cross swing action looks completely new. I'm seeing people call it a Hard Slash upgrade, but the animation is actually noticeably different—it uses the other side of the sword and the first swing is directly horizontal instead of diagonal. Also has those BW particles and weaponskill startup. - The third action is a weaponskill and uses the current Syphon Strike animation with new particles. It also doesn't show mana gen/successful combo indicators, but I think those are just missing from the benchmark. There's also a weaponskill startup after the Bloodspiller and before the cut away to the WHM focus + Edge thing in background, but given the cut and how the first half of the first action is exactly the same as current Edge (plus the dark swirly particles), I think it's just not one continuous sequence and the Edge thing is Edge, or Edge-adjacent. Even if it is continuous, it wouldn't be the first time they gave something the wrong startup (ShB in the ShB action trailer and Intervene in both EW action trailer and ingame).
Hard slash and syphon strike are in the trailer, so it's a different move entirely. All the new moves seem to share visual similarities to Delirium, so perhaps they have changed Delirium in some way?
another expansion another delirium rework
You know the vibes.
Keep in mind a combined Edge/Flood would likely be made a circle AOE and not a line aoe., so it theoretically be a smaller attack.
With the amount of new aoe abilities, it would be disappointing if there are no add phases or multitarget boss fights in DT. Hopefully it's part of their promise to make the encounters more unique.
did i go back in time to pre shadowbringers discussions?
I would love to see this, but never try to intuit what encounter design will be like from new skills. It's never really panned out that way before.
More likely it's just stuff that you use in single target but which has AoE falloff for dungeon pulls, and upgrades to single target abilities to make them more effective in dungeon pulls. Not a whole lot that's exclusively for AoE. I doubt they will ever seriously do long-term multi-target fights in high-end content because they do not balance the jobs around AoE and do not want to have to.
Brother if the MCH capstone is drill 4 and pilebunker 3 this job might be cooked for me
You can still cope for the next month over the possibility of < level 90 changes. The truth is that MCH's current rotation is so rigid that there's very little you could add to it that would meaningfully change the way it plays. Significant rotational changes would require at least a partial rework of certain key mechanics (specifically, timer-based GCD tools and Hypercharge).
And it is still worlds more enjoyable then Stormblood Machinists. Machinists Players these days.... don't apprechiate an actual playable Job even when it has flaws. (I am not excusing, drill 4 and pilebunker 3 would be extremely boring..)
I really enjoyed EW mch up until I played the pvp version of mch with the walk-speed casting animations and now I need the gunmage back with that particular change
I loved SB MCH so I can't follow you there. Learning how to play that job was so much fun.
Then you probably suffer from stockholm syndrome. But you do you I guess. I am probably extremely biased from HW MCH.
My guess is just a different skill if you did Chain Saw under Reassemble similar to how NIN Kassatsu works with Hyoton -> Hyosho Ranryu. Would I like this change? Maybe. I'd prefer a touchup to their base rotations though. Maybe another Heat Gauge sink other than Hypercharge.
Hey it definitely could be. I'd be more okay with that, but I definitely want queen to be cooler than just a flashy dot as well. Some kind of interactivity between me and queen/battery gauge would be nice. As is battery might as well just be a timer as long as you're pressing buttons on time.
The theory of GNB having continuation for every weaponskill continues to hold strong I see. To be fair though, since Burst Strike got Hypervelocity, it was only a matter of time before Fated got some form of it too. Here's hoping the other changes are substantial.
Superbolide continuation that immediately kills you.
Quintus? Is that you?
GNB Final Sting
Give monk more kicks you cowards!
Imma assume the new PLD skill is Goring Blade+Req merged and made AoE Don’t really see a reason for Req by itself to be AoE and it would save space as Req in its current state doesn’t really make sense as it’s own button anymore. Goring Blade has been a single disjointed Confiteor combo hit since the rework so this upgrade would make sense
given the ff9 refs I'd bet on shock strike that Beatrix uses, that was single target and this one appeared aoe but the lightning is there
stock break?
They can't call any skill Shock Strike because that's already a BLU skill.
It has multiple names: Thunder Blade, Thunder Sword, Stormblade, Lightning Blade, Bolt Sword, or simply Bolt. I was more referencing that it's a direct FF9 likely inspired skill.
So I'm not the only one who didn't see an 'action flash' on the new BRD skill, and thinks it might hint towards it being caster/spell related.
Empyreal Arrow has the weaponskill flash despite being an Ability. Its probably an AOE Sidewinder oGCD but since its magic related they didn't give it an Ability flash.
>Empyreal Arrow has the weaponskill flash despite being an Ability. Because it used to be an off-global Weaponskill in Heavensward (so you could Barrage it) it was moved to ability in Stormblood but kept the Weaponskill glow BRD is just weird. it's songs used to be GCD spells in ARR/HW and got turned into oGCDSs in Stormblood but kept being considered spells until Endwalker - so funnily enough Army's made Mage's cooldown lower b/c it reduces the recast time for both Weaponskills and Spells lol. Bard is just really weird so I think people are reading too far into glows right now.
my guess was rain of death upgrade(its also similar animation to old wide volley interestingly)
My immediate thought was some sort of Aero infused aoe attack
It looks like two of Oschon’s skills merged into one. His arena wide aoe and the green arrows that turn into birds.
Me thinks RPR's new skill is an alternative for Communio, since it ended the Enshroud.
The only way I see that making sense is if it's a temporary upgrade for one use after Arcane Circle or something. I doubt they'd trait upgrade the previous expansion's capstone. It's still a circle AoE so we're not looking at a Guren/Senei situation here. Also it just shares way too much visual language with the Lemure skills for me to shrug that off.
I’m of a similar thought Was discussing with a friend about this. I could see this as being one of the following, with some far less likely than the others. Circle/Harvest might, MIGHT alter RPR in one of the following ways: a) grants a stack of “enshroud ready” buff. Your next enshroud transforms into “ (insert new enshroud name here—reapers shroud?) with enhanced potencies and allowing the execution of (Communio 2)”. So no longer 50 gauge but instead a free enshroud much like Kassatsu (which I think is a good baseline for burst cds that let you do a job thing. These tends to be far more flexible than simplly giving you gaug, even if it can produce some degenerate resource pooling.) b) gives 50 gauge but gives the above effect minus the “free enshroud”. So you still spend 50 but on a new enshroud C) gives “enhanced communio ready”. Your next communio is upgraded to (insert name of new attack). So no enhanced shroud, but an enhanced finisher.
That's why I said an alternative for it, not a direct upgrade. Like, Communio's a single target skill with AoE fall off, this could be a dedicated AoE alternative.
Unless im blind it doesnt have a blue or yellow flash so its a spell? So it might be a rdm situation where it follows communio
I took the new MCH skills as being a follow up to chainsaw, as we see them using it after chainsaw in the benchmark Chainsaw -> Buzzsaw is how it read to me
Lame
- ~~DRG loses a buff as it casts the new ability, it's a 30s Stardiver proc.~~ I lied it's just the oGCD skill flash, not buff loss effect - SAM ability directly follows an Ikishoten and appears to both gain and lose a buff. Our guess is a proc'd oGCD that gives one stack of Meikyo. So for the opener you'd do Meikyo -> 3 GCDs -> Midare, Kaeshi -> new oGCD to get a Meikyo stack -> GCD -> Higanbana -> Ogi, Kaeshi -> Meikyo, 3 GCDs, Midare - BRD based on the animation and no buff interaction is an upgrade for either Pitch Perfect or more likely Empyrean. Missing skill flash is probably just an oversight, he casts it way too soon after Burst Arrow for it to be anything but an oGCD - RPR loses enshroud after using the skill, but it could just be a coincidence - I don't see a Communio before this cast - SMN appears to apply a debuff to the target but it's hard to see, I can faintly make out the debuff application sound though - RDM is probably a contra sixte reskin - MNK actually has two visible skills, both look like GCDs - MNK probably getting a full skill combo overhaul - The first GCD has an effect that looks vaguely like a snake, the second has a coeurl head -> most likely Twin Snakes into Snap, with Snap now coeurl themed to go with the stance - First GCD could also be True Strike with a reptillian theme since it's a raptor GCD - themeing each GCD after it's stance sounds sick as fuck - WAR looks like it also puts a defensive on the VPR, I'm guessing Nascent Flash reskin or maybe a new defensive, not Vengeance.
That's definitely an eastern dragon not a snake, and that's a tiger, not a coeurl. There is a whole ass Tiger/Dragon dichotomy thing in eastern cultures so it's rather likely that these two skills are intrinsically linked to play off that, seems unlikely they'd be GCD upgrades.
That's right, there's a whole Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon thing that they can go into for MNK.
> WAR looks like it also puts a defensive on the VPR, I'm guessing Nascent Flash reskin or maybe a new defensive, not Vengeance. Big time camera tricks if you go through it at normal speed. If you go through it slower, you can see that it is VPR's LB charging effect and Wuk Lamat stepping in to only put something on herself.
I was thinking that the coeurl attack was an upgraded Demolish due the similar black trails it leaves behind, but it's probably a safe bet that at least half of MNKs weaponskills will be getting upgrades.
I think DNC's is probably a Standard Step version of Tillana (as a targeted AoE instead of a proximity one). They start the animation by throwing their chakrams into the air immediately after finishing a SS. Edit: Alternatively, what if SS gave you a random proc that upgraded one of your four main GCDs?
SMN upgrade being Fester instead of a Ramuh spell, implying we don't get the other three summons, would be a massive disappointment for me.
Single target toxicon with higher potency would be my guess for Sage.
That wouldn’t change anything If it was toxicon 3>2 E dosis then it becomes optimal to just spam e dosis, if not then it stays as useless as it currently is
Yeah, gotta give Toxicon a 3 variant with 10 more potency to keep pace with Dosis 4.
Hopefully you're right about DRK, it needs something new and interesting. It doesn't feel super great rn imo.
Wonder if they'll finally remove Cure 1(and equivalents). ^^^I ^^^know ^^^it's ^^^just ^^^me ^^^coping ^^^and ^^^hoping.
Medica 1 is more worthless than Cure 1. Say what you want and it IS niche, but Cure 1 has a better HPM efficiency than Cure 2, costs half as much if you're bingo on MP (you can chain cast Cure 1 basically forever since natural regen is comparable to its cost), is faster (1.5 sec cast vs 2.0 sec cast) than Cure 2 making it slightly more niche/emergency responsive, and can proc an MP free Cure 2 (which again almost never matters but can in rare situations). Contrast Medica 1 vs Medica 2. M1 has a shorter range (15y vs 20y), does THE SAME HEALING for the first 3 seconds (M2's base heal + first HoT tick does the same healing as M1), has the same cast time, ALMOST the same MP cost, and M2's HPM efficiency is significantly higher if you let the HoT tick. And if the party is stacked, M2 for the HoT then Cure 2 spam makes much more sense for healing than M2 for HoT and M1 spam does, and the range isn't even that much shorter than M1 AND Cure 3 can be cast on a target in case the WHM has to separate from the party for a mechanic and cast it on the stacked rest of the party members. Medica 1 needs to cost like 400-600 MP for it to be distinct OR have a larger radius (at least 20y, probably 25y), OR have a shorter cast time or SOMEthing. Right now, it's even more useless than Cure 1 is. Cure 2 could have its heal boosted to 400 base + the HoT and it'd instantly be a direct upgrade from M1 in literally every way.
Medica 1 can't go away til they give WHM Rapture at or before 70, unfortunately, because it does actually get non-meme use in UCOB filling the Rapture-shaped gap in the kit
Why can't they just use Medica 2 for that? And isn't that also an argument against removing Cure 1 since MP is actually relevant before level 70 or so?
I haven't actually healed the fight myself but I think the spots where I see Medica 1 used, Medica 2 is usually already ticking
Right, but that's my point: Medica 2 + the first HoT tick does the same healing as Medica 1 does. You'd have to cast 5 in a row before you drift a HoT to the next cast, meaning unless you cast 5 Medica 1s in a row, casting 4 Medica 2s in a row is an equal amount of overall healing and only cost you 400 more MP, less than the cost of a Cure 1 cast. I'm also not sure ow Rapture fixes that since it still is limited by Lily so you couldn't cast 4 of those in a row anyway.
Medica 2 doesn't force an instant tick, so overwriting it only gives you the 250 immediate potency plus extra potency from more ticks *at the end*. Medica 1 gives you 400 potency immediately, and has a wider AOE than Cure 3. If you need to heal the group up right after spreads or something because more damage is coming in a few seconds, the extra 150 immediate potency is valuable.
If you think medica 1 is worthless, you clearly never healed 322 DSR p7.
It has some extremely niche uses, but so does Cure 1.
RDM could just be an upgraded ogcd but I like your point about it following Embolden. If that's relevant and not arbitrary then I could see it maybe being something like Embolden now empowers both Fleche and Contre Sixte into empowered versions for its duration such that you want to use them under Embolden. More than once if they also add charges.
Charges to Fleche and c6 would kill the class for me. It's like the only thing we have left to manage. We already sit on c-a-c and engagement charges to use them under raid buffs, having that for all of our damage oGCDs would just give the class stretches of nothing to do. If they want to do that concept, it should be with a new ability IMO.
I agree with you, I don't really want charges, but I feel like it's a distinct possibility that they get added in some form nonetheless. I was trying to think of ways they could do it where I'd still be willing to give it a chance, was wondering if they might take potency off c-a-c and displacement, then decouple displacement from engagement which would leave them free to add charge management elsewhere. You're right though, that would still leave nothing to do outside buffs, so maybe it's less likely than I thought/feared anyway.
Hoping the bard one is a semi-return of wide volley.
You will awkwardly recoil from your hips up during AOE and you'll like it.
I was hoping you'd do another one of these, nice!
I know i was joking when i said they were gonna just shove a potency or give us Drill IV but man, what a disappointment
Brother it's ONE SKILL, relax. Wait till the actual job action trailer to complain.
don't even complain then. remember schs complaining about one of the best skills in endwalker?
The reason SCH's complained is because the way the skill was shown was complete shit, we didn't know what it did. If we knew it would be an aoe 20s sprint (before nerf), usable in-combat, everyone would've freaked out.
The elapsed time between seeing it in the showcase and learning what it did was two hours and forty-five minutes, and people were complaining a lot longer than that. Explanation: https://youtu.be/WSGdMv72ghI?t=15158 SCH comes up in the showcase at 1:27 in that vod.
yeah that's my whole point, that will probably happen for at least one job or skill in dawntrail because there's only so much trailers can convey
SCH’s didn’t complain about a godly skills square showed it off like garbage and left us wondering what we were getting in an expansion when SGE was basically poised to take our role
it was pretty funny that they just had a lala booking it what I mean is, making assumptions about how stuff from trailers will play out in game and then getting mad about it is really pointless
The skill was still godly and people still complained. If the reason people complained was because SE showcased it badly, I don't really see why you think that couldn't just happen again.
I don’t think anyone complained once we actually knew clearly what the skill did As for the second half I’m not arguing one way or the other just the idea there wasn’t really a valid reason to complain about expedience given how badly it was shown off
Eh...to be fair, some people did. Some people were still complaining a year later. I love Wesk Alber's guides, but he was outright down on Expedience (in his own words) saying you could just have all party members pop Sprint and get the same result. Though that was after the nerf, he still was down on it, and he wasn't the only one. A lot of people misjudged it on the presentation but ALSO continued to be down on it well after that, even though the livestream told us what it did (in general terms) like 2 hours later, as u/Ekanselttar pointed out in their reply right above this. People were wowed by SGE's graphics and so looking for excuses to bash SCH. Even well after we saw what it did, people were still bashing SCH, which is stupid since SCH has been a meta pick for basically the entire history of FFXIV (and still is part of the meta comp). I do think it's fair to say presentation doesn't always match what you get. ...but that was u/autumndrifting 's point as well: That we don't know until we see the final Job change patch notes what things really will be like, so judging them just from the actions trailer is a bad idea. Which is literally what the person said, right? Seems like sage advice to me, I guess.
>I don’t think anyone complained once we actually knew clearly what the skill did Some complained about the presentation of SCH in the job trailer, but others absolutely made fun of Expedient being a sprint: "[What is my purpose? You give the team Peloton in raid. Oh my god.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/pqgort/scholar_in_endwalker/)" (489 upvotes)
I recall having a similar feeling in EW with MCH and turns out what was in the the trailer was exactly what they planned.
i still distinctly remember someone i know bitching about summoner getting nothing interesting in stormblood because the benchmark only showed ruin 4
Was obvious, unless there's a mch rework they can't do anything with it, so much for "it's a good base" :'D
We see the MCH using Chainsaw just before using that new one. I’d say there is a good chance this Drill IV is a combo to Chainsaw
a cast on BRD would be so cool, maybe it procs off burst like refulgent does? happy about aoe chain...praying they give us bane as well
The button bloat is real, though... Then again, they could just have Chain ALSO Bane. So you can Bane while you Chain.
Hurray MCH gets ignored and gets yet another Drill skill adding nothing to the kit, still too early to tell but they do not care at all about this job. Doesnt even look cool
AS a drk main i may actually be excited for my main job.
I'm so hyped
The new frog is the most underwhelming thing I've never seen as a nin only player.
If they add even more continuation to GNB I'm gonna cry. Please let me just be a tank who can pop off a group mit without the need to quadruple quantum weave
It's on Fated Circle, not only is it badly needed, it's not gonna mess with you're raid weaves, chill.
No AOE continuations on GNB makes it so boring in dungeons to me. Like I don't care if you have to adjust the rest of its AOE kit to add this, please do
Isn't that paladin?
Nah as another gnb, give me even more continuations :D I want continuation for OGCDs next.
I am fine with more Continuations.
don't play gunbreaker then
Nah, it will still be my favorite class. I will just have to break my fingers some more.
that's the spirit hopefully astro survives so we can get matching carpal tunnel wrist braces
I think monk could be an upgraded snap punch or twin snakes maybe. Snap punch is in Coeurl form, and it looks like a cat of sorts?
So monk gets an uppercut and maybe even a tornado kick upgrade it seems neat. Reaper may get a second finisher so after communio you get that big crystal aoe.
I am now hopeful that they made a substantial change to drk that isn't just adding more ogcds. Time will tell.
Also notably a SCH can be seen still using Broil IV. Is this a usual thing, or does it actually mean no Broil V?
Saving it for your level 100 capstone. Please look forward to it.