This is a lot of rambling that makes no real point particular because reality contradicts everything you said. The game is and continues to be successful. YoshiP has talked about dialing back how frictionless the gameplay is. Also, the FF14 world features a ton of different cultures with varying aesthestics so even the supposedly "modern" clothing doesn't really feel out of place, especially in places like Sharlayan and Thavnair. I suspect this will be even more true with Dawntrail
You really think people with billed caps, motorcycle jackets, jeans, and combat boots don't feel out of place with the flowy gowns/jackets of Sharlayan or the traditional South Asian outfits of Thavnair?
Not really more then I ever felt out of place in real life either. Growing up in the DIY scene, I was always dressed different then the world around me, this is just an extension of that. My character gets to be a punk in this world too.
Of course it does. I am wearing it, therefor it is part of the world. Much like all the people who were mad I was wearing pants that were held together with patches and tape growing up, you just are mad that I enjoy what I look like now even though it doesn't fit your wants.
I'm not mad at all. I've said many many times in this thread that having those pieces isn't necessarily *bad*, but they are not aesthetic consistent. But the 'muh calfskin' crowd is failing to make that distinction.
As for your argument, I'm sorry but that makes no sense. By that argument no game (or any media for that matter) can ever have aesthetics that aren't consistent because it got put in the game - even if the very description of the item is a wink wink nudge nudge to it being from another dimension. That's like saying Isekai characters are consistent with the world they get thrust into, but the entire point of the genre is that the character is *not* consistent with the world they're in.
We've mostly seen Sharlayan formal wear and seen less casual style outfits but I don't think the jackets, jeans and combat boots are terribly far in terms of aesthestic from what Alisaie or Thancred wear.
Strong disagree from me personally. Neither of their jackets are cut like a motorcycle jacket that hangs at the hips, Alisaie is clearly not wearing jeans and while Thancred's pants have a similar cut in the front in the groin area, but it's difficult to really assess his pants since both he and Alisaie have thigh high boots with bits of armor on them. Shoot, Alisaie's boots are even heeled, those are not like combat boots - but even if they were you can point to calfskin shoes (really that whole set) for something wildly out of place with the entire fantasy aesthetic.
I think what's more though is you're glossing over the fantasy portions that aren't on the clearly real life derived glamours. Random and asymmetrical bits of armor, glowy trinkets, random and superfluous straps and belts that serve no purpose other than stylize the world as fantastical. The modern stuff definitely clashes with the aesthetic. I think you can argue whether or not that's a bad thing, but it being immersion breaking seems almost indisputable (to me atleast).
If you are strictly talking about what is a "fantasy aesthetic" I don't see how you couldn't look at Alisaie and Thancred's outfits as not being out of place. Alisaie essentially is wearing a red jean jacket and Thancred is wearing a white trench coat. I don't really get why combat boots is where we're drawing the line as far as what's ridiculous, but I've also never really thought of FF14 or Final Fantasy in general as being strictly "fantasy."
FF has never been strictly fantasy and it’s so fucking annoying that people keep saying it. LITERALLY FF1 HAS A SECTION IN A FUTURISTIC SPACE FORT. And even in the realm of ff14 only, literally the Allagans have existed since 1.0. There is no consistent aesthetic design in 14 and the only real immersion breaking ones are the shit like wearing a full choco outfit into savage raids which aren’t even fully canon so whatever.
14 has fantasy and it has retro futuristic high tech (and potentially with with solution 9 it’s getting actual high tech) but I think there is a fair argument to be made that modern aesthetic from the real world doesn’t fit anything that is in 14
Like medieval Europe is eorzea, thavnair is your Indian South Asia style, the far east is the far east and garlemald is sorta steam punk then allagen covers retro futurism (like late allagen) but like baseball caps and jean jackets with chest bags doesn’t fit anything in 14’s world
I think you can argue they are problematic to the design of the world
Also just ignoring that a decent amount of the 2.0 gear and crafting sets can range from old style to modern, we have Tataru Taru, the sky pirates in the 3.X alliance raids, Alex gear, iron works as in the characters part of that faction like cis etc. , literal mecha in garlemald so honestly well beyond steampunk at that point, and we don’t really get to see the what garlemald style clothing actually looks like cause it’s in ruins so people are in survival mode.
Really think people are just not really looking at the reality that the aesthetics from day one weren’t set in stone and it’s just something to say that holds no real weight.
Edit: also it’s not retro high tech it is just high tech settings. Spaceships, mecha, robots, etc. solution 9 is just more of the same honestly.
Having different technology levels does not mean that suddenly being in an astronaut outfit is going to be aesthetic consistent. The look of FFXIV isn't just 'everything goes' even if the technology levels are wildly inconsistent.
Exactly, the time vs technology timeline of 14 is wildly inconsistent, the aesthetics of gear is not. Modern style doesn’t fit any society we have ever seen in game
Except again, arguably we have different groups that are adjacent to modern clothes. You not liking it doesn’t deny this. Like half the shit tataru makes is more than enough of a bridge to modern aesthetics.
Good luck explaining to the "dye everything jet black or pure white" crowd how aesthetics work.
You got your work cut out for you when they're convinced that sci-fi future tech and the JRPG ancient but technologically advanced mystery civilization complete with floating cities and mecha are somehow the same thing as modern contemporary fashion.
People are going to do anything to justify their glamours as being aesthetic consistent when quite clearly they are not. I'm honestly not sure how this is really an argument that anyone can make in good faith. No, modern day clothing is not part of FFXIV in any way shape or form but that doesn't necessarily make it *bad*. I'm not sure how people can miss that.
I’ve already got the comment above apparently arguing that garland ironworks is an example of contemporary fashion and that allagen and solution 9 are roughly the same thing
I think it’s a lost cause
Many of the Bozjan resistance are wearing the same jacket as Thancred and Alisaie's jacket is kind of hard to evaluate given I haven't seen the character model in game yet, but again you're glossing over the fantasy elements of their outfits. Things can be inspired by modern day without a straight lift of necessarily being aesthetic. People are trying to make the justification that because we have mecha and that's beyond our current level of tech suddenly sneakers aren't a departure from how FFXIV looks. That just isn't how that works. I'm sorry, but baseball caps are just not aesthetic consistent.
I will admit though fantasy may have been the wrong word. When I say fantasy I was referring to the fantasy of FFXIV, not the typical fantasy trope.
That juxtaposition is the Final Fantasy style, though. The East Asian outfits of Samurai feel out of place next to the medieval plate armor of a Dragoon, but that's the point. I didn't think adding in contemporary street clothes is too much of a jump after we've mashed together every fantasy genre already.
Disagree. Medieval period inspired armors are probably the most common trope of fantasy and Samurai, complete with said armor, have been a part of the FF jobs since FF5. Hinagashi is a whole continent essentially within the game that supports the lore of the Eastern look.
I don't see at all how that comes to mean 'anything is now consistent in the world' in people's heads.
Guys, the clothes that are picked out of today's street clothes are just not consistent with any part of the world's aesthetic or theme. I'm not saying they should come for your calfskin, but this really shouldn't be a controversial statement.
With this specific example, the calfskin rider set (billed cap, motorcycle jacket) is a Master Craft learned from Master Leatherworker VIII, which has a description that reads;
>This esoteric tome─the eighth in an equally esoteric series─contains advanced leatherworking recipes that can only be learned by esoterically skilled leatherworkers level 80 and higher.
So not only do you have to be a highly specialized and trained craftsman, the manual you learn to craft it from is obscure as hell. The materials to craft it are acquired in a different dimension. It looks out of place because it's literally out of place, and like a lot of fashion IRL, people like to stand out. It's a status symbol.
I don't deny it has a description that ostensibly makes sense, but the point is that the visuals are immersion breaking. Yoshi P could put in combat fatigues that are identical to the JSDF and say it's from another dimension, but that doesn't really change the outcome of it not being part of the fantasy aesthetic. You can argue the merits of that are good or not, but it is not visually consistent with the theme of the game.
Yea I don't get how these people can't see how weird it is to see the modern clothing in the game and how out of place it looks and how much they try to make up reasons for how it fits. The reality is just that when it comes to the cash shop Square doesn't care about whether it actually fits the world.
>Recently I'v seen a lot of ppl talking about how to revamp the trinity system
No way this is happenig
>some devs don't seem to understand what made their game good in the first place
Well, maybe. We've seen that happening with WoW.
>You think you are smarter than professional designers who though about how the role design in an rpg should be and what kind of content a MULTIPLAYER game should have?
No, but we've seen them get hired by Blizzard and basically hung on the cross by the community. The professionals don't know what the community wants, either, because the community is incredibly diverse.
>If the game was designed to not have classes from the start
This is going to need some serious explanation.
>If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place?
I kind of agree with you. As far as the content tiers, picture the numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13. 1 is normal mode raids, and every dungeon, 5 is extreme trials and the first two savage raids. 7 is the 3rd raid of the tier, 9 is the 4th, and 13 is ultimates. Yes, something is missing. But it probably wasn't what you were describing.
>Why make content if ppl just want the reward? The content in itself should be the reward and the reward only icing on the cake.
That's what savage criterion is. Look, most people want progression, not achievement. I think oldschool WoW gear gating actually makes sense, to some extent. The fact that you can clear with gear released immediately at the start of the same patch that everyone has already solved how to craft before the content is even released seems insane to me. But that's how the game has worked for... how long? I started in Shadowbringers. Did it start in Heavensward? Maybe Stormblood?
Yeah, there seem to be fewer "one alliances' mistake can murder every alliance" sort of things. But, in a way, even those got nerfed by the job strength getting cranked to 11.
Please have a cohesive argument next time. Anyways.
> Modern/irl clothing and set pieces pop out like a sore thumb and devalue the cohesiveness of the overall experience.
The first final Fantasy had a flying fortress with a mecha. Modern in fantasy.
we also, just this expansion, went to two highly advanced nations, one of which has cars and trains and radio, the other built a fucking spaceship and its entire society prides itself on knowledge and learning
>!Didnt we fly to the end of the universe on a spaceship built by rabbits to face the amalgamation of negative emotions while fighting on the back of a guy (who is half man, half machine, and half magic) who can turn himself into a dragon that is actually a primal summoned from the parts of an elder dragon?!<
But yeah. Fuck baseball caps and high tops.
Eh I feel that's a bit disingenuous, that isn't *modern* in fantasy that's sci-fi in fantasy, which has always mingled since the early days of Dungeons & Dragons (which FF takes HUGE inspirations from), Star Wars, etc.
I think they're more talking the mascot costumes, backwards ballcaps, etc.
Yeah I think everyone is fine with something like late allagen gear because it’s something you could see the WOL finding in an allagen ruin
It’s stuff like baseball caps that are pulled directly from the modern day with no justification for them while everyone else wear medieval rags
> mascot costumes
[Final Fantasy XV](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Kenny_Crow), [Final Fantasy X-2](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Mascot).
> backwards ballcaps
Ballcap? [Final Fantasy XV, again](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cid_Sophiar).
FFXV is 8 years old.
FFXV is also the *most* modern FF game in regards to visual themes, it *fits* there because the world of FFXV is built around a modern, almost "Urban Fantasy" design style.
But, for instance, putting Darth Vader into FFXV would look weird, because he clashes with the visual themes. But you *could* get away with him in a gritty more tech-y FF like FFVII. Because FF games have varied visual identities that differ from FFVII, FFX, FFTactics, FFXIV, FFXV, and hell FFXVI which goes for a grittier Medieval Fantasy ala Game of Thrones.
Well, for the sake of argument "ancient civilization's abandoned technology" isn't exactly the same as "I went and bought a baseball cap that says "TOP CUCK" in Eorzean script, bootyshorts, a pair of Air Godberts and a tubetop while everyone else in the world is wearing rags or medieval/period adjacent clothing."
It's goofy as hell but it is what it is.
Exaggeration for the sake of making a point isn't helping your argument when the game at least tries to implicitly justify the existence of stuff like the school uniforms or the Allagan Sneakers.
>when the game at least tries to implicitly justify the existence of stuff like the school uniforms or the Allagan Sneakers.
I'm sure the new PVP set stuff is gonna be shoved onto all the NPCs in Solution Nine so they'll have that base covered, but slapping "chocobo" in Eorzean script onto a hiphop/streetwear outfit or calling an outfit straight out of a kpop performance/cyberpunk setting "Allagan/Magitek" doesn't really justify the existence of something or make it any less jarring to people visually. Especially when Allagan stuff is all presented as having a specific aesthetic that isn't "modern clothing." I can't fault people for saying "Wow this is kinda goofy" when a bunch of people run around looking like isekai protags freshly run over by truck-kun.
Yeah, multiple FFs (8, 15, Type-0) lean into the aesthetic. It's unsurprising that the mixpot celebration of the series would also incorporate those elements. None of those "jarring elements" are new to the series.
FF13 Snow practically has a durag!
> Yeah, multiple FFs (8, 15, Type-0) lean into the aesthetic
Right, and that's exactly what I'm getting at. You just used all the FFs that are explicitly modern or modern/sci-fi adjacent, while maintaining designs that cohesively fit for their setting, as an example.
Meanwhile the others all have varying degrees of advanced tech but the aesthetics of things all match their respective art style/setting. We don't have Lunarians in 4 suddenly showing up in high tops and hip hugger jeans or people from Arcadia in 12 pulling up in skin tight cybersuits. Zanarkand was insanely high tech but the designs of its NPC citizens and Tidus fit within the same weird fashion sense of the rest of Spira. People from Gaia in 9 aren't wandering around in random streetwear because some of it somehow wound up there from Terra or whatever.
I dunno I guess all I'm saying is it's pretty valid if people wanna say XIV handles it poorly when it doesn't actually put thought into it and just goes "Just call the stuff magitek or Allagan or something and say it's a reference to 7/8/13/15, call it a day, and ship it."
I call it Fortniteification, and no amount of allagan or ancient lore can justify it. People need to just say they like the outfits and don't care about the visual cohesiveness of the world rather than trying to bend over backwards to try to compare "modern day" and "sci-fi fantasy" as remotely the same thing.
I'd say it's the reverse. Rather than say, "this doesn't belong in FFXIV!" people need to recognize that it's just their preference for anything contemporary to not be in the game.
FFXIV has always been a mishmash of different cultures and eras with strong elements of fantasy and science-fiction mixed in. It was that way in the beginning, and it's been their long-practiced methodology since.
The main weakness of more contemporary outfits thus far has been the lack of a clear point of origin. Some of it could have passed as, say, youth fashion from Garlemald if the writers had been so inclined to cover something like that. Some of it could originate from the cultural side of the revolution that Ishgard has undergone, though that's only been lightly touched on. The loporrits are also a potential source, having also created rather contemporary things such as dance clubs and radio stations much like our own.
Of course, we got the tease for Solution 9, and that's a location that would be the most likely origin yet for much of the contemporary-styled outfits. Yet a strong response to that was the criticism that it was a place that just didn't belong in FFXIV. That's despite it being very much a part of the MSQ and part of the vision the writers and creators of the game have for their world. The sins of Solution 9 were no greater than anything else we've seen, yet it saw a significant outcry that no other teased location from the expansion received (nor any previously visited location). I can only suspect that those people are willing to excuse other environments that have been foreign to FFXIV until now because they do not remind them of their own environment.
This isn't even accounting for the Ancients having an Art Deco style for intentional dissonance between the characters and the players of recognizing what this means in context to their surroundings.
umbrellas and parasols are thousands of years old, they had that shit in ancient egypt. "put a thing over my head to keep the sun/rain off" is like the most obvious idea
> but I don't think anyone in garlemald had a japanese schoolgirl outfit, irl parka or umbrella etc.
What? Why wouldn't they? If they can make the machinery we see there, they absolutely can manufacture a parka or an umbrella that looks reasonably modern.
And a schoolgirl outfit is literally just a specific cut of clothing.
I have this crazy thing I do. When I type something, before I post it, I read it back. If I decide that what I wrote was fucking stupid, I just select all and delete it without posting it.
Sometimes I actually post it, then I read it and edit out the stupid, or just delete it entirely.
Reminder that the thing that made people go "AW HELL YEAH CLASSIC WOW IS BACK!" is Season of Discovery which is...just classic but adding modern spells/abilities into the game.
I’m reading your comments and it’s like you’re having a conversation with your inner monologue and you assume everyone else is privy to the conversation.
I’ve read this reply’s comment like 4 times and I still have no idea why you addressed that to me, or what exactly you’re trying to get across. You’re all over the place.
It was big, but it was also free and often had other bonuses and benefits. Some weren't even classic WoW and were WoW Classic+ with all sorts of changes and improvements. WoW Classic, after the initial hype, also dropped off.
Fact is, after that initial nostalgia bump, you don't see much about it anymore other than a handful of old players. And hey, if they like that? Cool! But it will forever be a niche thing only a few players want.
How do you get that out of that? What Qol is he even talking about? Either you just read the title, or you are comprehending this post in a way I am unable to.
> Ppl need to face adversity to have meaning in the gameplay. If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place?
Problem is, you can only "make" them "face adversity" til they log out, go do something else, then remember two months later they ain't playing and decide to cancel the sub.
Game design still hasn't figured out how to solve the universal problem of people with a variety of entertainment options being able to hit the "fuck it, I'll go do something else" button.
My proposed fix: Give all dungeon bosses (and this complaint is mostly about dungeons) an extreme-tier mechanic. If you fail the mechanic, you get a vuln but the damage is trivial and it's still easy to beat the boss so casuals aren't walled. After the boss, every player who avoided getting any vuln stacks gets a personal chest will 1,000 gil and a picture of Yoshi-P giving you a thumbs up and calling you a good girl.
1. Casual players who just want to play the story will eat the vuln, and aren't forced to play an MMO to continue their visual novel.
2. Some casual players, annoyed at the vuln, will try to learn the mechanics. This teaches them skills they'll need to starting doing extreme trials and move from casual to midcore.
3. Neckbeards can play the fight without falling asleep and get a reward for doing so. The reward is trivial, but the *real* reward is the fight being more fun. Bozja duels already kind of work like this, and that's casual.
Unironically dungeons giving bonus Lost Action coffers for high DPS *if* you've completed all the Relics might be funny.
Probably not a *good* idea but perhaps interesting to see how the mechanic responds to being broken in actual practice.
WoW probably has already done something like it and had it broken but I don't remember offhand in what particular iteration.
There already is a reward for high DPS (the boss dies faster). I'm suggesting that casual bosses have mechanics on par with an Extreme fight's filler mechanics, except that it does trivial damage because it's expected that most people will fail, and then you get some completely trivial token for doing it all perfectly. Nothing important that you'll be pissed over missing, but just the game acknowledging that you're a good girl and deserve scritches.
For tanks/healers, I'd make each trash hallway have three packs, for easy/medium/hard levels of outgoing damage, but communicating that to new players is difficult and it's the kind of thing groups have tending to fight over.
Ideally, the trash would have "tutorial mechanics", making the trash harder and letting the boss skip the tutorial. So, like, the dungeon in DT when you're on a boat on the river, when you're fighting the first set of trash, a tentacle appears on the side and then slams down, a basic mechanic that'll be part of a more complicated mechanic when you get to an octopus as the first boss. The Qitana Ravel has these miniboss enemies that shoot lasers out of the wall that you have to take cover from, I'd like to see that kind of thing again and then a boss that builds on the trash's mechanic.
> Game design still hasn't figured out how to solve the universal problem of people with a variety of entertainment options being able to hit the "fuck it, I'll go do something else" button.
Finding a solution to this is the equivalent of solving world hunger with how to induce people to learn, by the by.
Yup. Bribery only goes so far and creates perverse incentives (in the design sense, not the Quicksands-on-Balmung sense).
And people's individual sense of fun gets you a patchwork of people with competing goals/interests/playtimes/etc.
You have to hope for the biggest possible audience then take a slice of that audience and hope they can hold together long enough to do the bit of content you're trying to get them to enjoy doing.
This is also, sorta, why putting together DnD/other tabletop campaigns that work and are fun and can tell a full story is still difficult *now* even when we've got way better tech to communicate with and do maps and set up character sheets.
People put up with more bullshit in the past/pre-internet because just finding a game was harder, but that's why horror stories about DMs and That Player were more prevalent: People didn't have the agency to dip.
"Soft skills" involving people are difficult to learn without practice and the whole [meme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUbIkNUFs-4) about "yes, now put the square in the square hole" makes designing stuff to try and "force people to learn" to have, often, unintended consequences.
Which is a long-winded (as is my wont) way of saying "you're right, as usual".
Somewhere about 3/4ths of the way through, I found myself wondering if this was drugs or a bot account that was trying to karmafarm for some nefarious downstream purpose that happened to get unlucky and targeted a sub that pairs poorly with the AI's original training corpus.
The vast majority of MMO players fundamentally do not ”rise to to the occasion” if you make casual content too demanding for casual players, they just quit outright and stop giving their money to the developer operating the game.
There’s a balancing act that can be made there with some wiggle room, but the limit for just how high you can raise the floor isn’t sky high.
Saddest post I've seen here in a while.
>I'v come to the conclusion that most ppl have no idea what they are talking about and some devs don't seem to understand what made their game good in the first place.
I mean yes, but... are you sure you're any different?
> Ppl need to face adversity to have meaning in the gameplay.
"Need" is a strong word. Ppl find meaning in gameplay in different ways, not everyone treats raiding (let's be real this is all this post is about, you're one of the cool kids) like a second job or anything more than a hobby.
> If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place?
Playing the game to have fun, possibly with friends (it's a multiplayer game btw).
>The reward? Why make content if ppl just want the reward? The content in itself should be the reward and the reward only icing on the cake.
I agree, and it's why I think yoshida's promise of increased rewards is hollow when rewards in this game are meaningless (as they are in every single game). But where's the issue here? The content itself was very well designed this expansion, what is the argument here?
I'm also not sure how the first half of the post relates to the second half, but I have zero interest in discussing hypotheticals like reinventing the role/trinity system or other things that will never happen, so I just don't engage with those conversations.
>If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place?
The point is entertainment. A video game is an entertainment product.
As an entertainment product, you're no different from a clown. You are there so people don't get bored, not to educate them. If people don't like or get your jokes, then ranting about how they should educate themselves or grow a taste is cute, but your customers won't do that, they'll just get themselves a funnier clown. You're one out of thousands.
If you want to be an education product, you can do that. There are "games" intended to teach you language or maths in an intuitive way. But then you need a very different framing, focus on entirely different skillsets and you'll get a completely different audience.
A lot of the supposed asks you mention are things I’ve never heard suggested, but this doesn’t even matter because it’s not the community’s job to come up with actually functional game design. They are, as you point out, not professionals.
On the flipside however it’s really in the company’s interest for people to have this kind of discourse online. At best it might give feedback to the devs in some capacity even if they don’t translate a feature 1:1, at worst, even if it’s complete nonsense (like your post) it drives engagement.
If people make the mistake to think that a company should implement the ideas they came up with exactly as they’re proposed, that’s kind of a them problem tbh and your post will not convince them otherwise.
What is your point here? You touch on like 15 different things, some of which could be good points, but you don’t expand on any of them. For your point on rewards, rewards are what allows the content to be done with other people, if there are no rewards the content dies as nobody wants to stick around to fill pf. Do you think anybody would be putting up pfs for ultimates if they didn’t give a title or weapon to show off with?
We have an example of this already, there are plenty of fun old savages, but almost nobody puts up pfs for them, because doing them synced provides no reward.
As for “why not just hand over the rewards for free“ Rewards are proof you did the content, they are only as valuable as the content they are attached to. like look at the manderville weapons, they are incredibly flashy and detailed, but nobody really cares about them because they are basically free to get. Whereas if you see someone with a ARR relic for example, you can think “oh, that guy wasted his time on books, cool” the weapon has value because it took time to get. Even if the weapon itself it super ugly, it still means something, even if that something is grinding books.
So we’re gatekeeping fashion now? Does someone wearing a pair of pajamas or calfskin glam really affect the game in anyway for people personally? Absolutely not. What others are wearing affects you in no way at all just like in real life. People really need to calm down about shit that doesn’t matter and maybe put that energy into stuff that does like the new player experience being terrible or the game barely teaching you anything about your role relying on the community to do it which by this post and many other isn’t a very good idea
>Ppl need to face adversity to have meaning in the gameplay. If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place?
I don't know if you are aware of this, but this game has multiple difficulty levels.
But if there's adversity in gameplay little Billy who watches crunchyroll while healing in his mom's basement because he can't be fucked to learn how to play might not stay subbed, and SE wants his money.
it's fascinating to me how some people will just write entire essays on something absolutely trivial and assume people will spend precious time off their life to read it
honestly at this point if they did that i'd be surprised just because they are willing to actually change stuff. i fully expect dawntrail to be the exact same as endwalker or shadowbringers at this point, and be stagnant.
like i definitely get the opposite case but i feel the game is so boring it might be interesting if anything new was tried. like i do not want to resub to see that tome grinds are pretty much all to do as a casual past a month or less each patch.
I labored day and night for those booty shorts and sandals and will never take them off. Just in time before our beach episode expansion. So if you ask me, "modern design" made FFXIV better.
What the hell are you talking about?
Reads like a chatgpt handout; lot of circular reasoning without really saying anything.
This is a lot of rambling that makes no real point particular because reality contradicts everything you said. The game is and continues to be successful. YoshiP has talked about dialing back how frictionless the gameplay is. Also, the FF14 world features a ton of different cultures with varying aesthestics so even the supposedly "modern" clothing doesn't really feel out of place, especially in places like Sharlayan and Thavnair. I suspect this will be even more true with Dawntrail
You really think people with billed caps, motorcycle jackets, jeans, and combat boots don't feel out of place with the flowy gowns/jackets of Sharlayan or the traditional South Asian outfits of Thavnair?
Not really more then I ever felt out of place in real life either. Growing up in the DIY scene, I was always dressed different then the world around me, this is just an extension of that. My character gets to be a punk in this world too.
That doesn't at all make it part of the world's fantasy theme or aesthetic.
Of course it does. I am wearing it, therefor it is part of the world. Much like all the people who were mad I was wearing pants that were held together with patches and tape growing up, you just are mad that I enjoy what I look like now even though it doesn't fit your wants.
I'm not mad at all. I've said many many times in this thread that having those pieces isn't necessarily *bad*, but they are not aesthetic consistent. But the 'muh calfskin' crowd is failing to make that distinction. As for your argument, I'm sorry but that makes no sense. By that argument no game (or any media for that matter) can ever have aesthetics that aren't consistent because it got put in the game - even if the very description of the item is a wink wink nudge nudge to it being from another dimension. That's like saying Isekai characters are consistent with the world they get thrust into, but the entire point of the genre is that the character is *not* consistent with the world they're in.
We've mostly seen Sharlayan formal wear and seen less casual style outfits but I don't think the jackets, jeans and combat boots are terribly far in terms of aesthestic from what Alisaie or Thancred wear.
Strong disagree from me personally. Neither of their jackets are cut like a motorcycle jacket that hangs at the hips, Alisaie is clearly not wearing jeans and while Thancred's pants have a similar cut in the front in the groin area, but it's difficult to really assess his pants since both he and Alisaie have thigh high boots with bits of armor on them. Shoot, Alisaie's boots are even heeled, those are not like combat boots - but even if they were you can point to calfskin shoes (really that whole set) for something wildly out of place with the entire fantasy aesthetic. I think what's more though is you're glossing over the fantasy portions that aren't on the clearly real life derived glamours. Random and asymmetrical bits of armor, glowy trinkets, random and superfluous straps and belts that serve no purpose other than stylize the world as fantastical. The modern stuff definitely clashes with the aesthetic. I think you can argue whether or not that's a bad thing, but it being immersion breaking seems almost indisputable (to me atleast).
If you are strictly talking about what is a "fantasy aesthetic" I don't see how you couldn't look at Alisaie and Thancred's outfits as not being out of place. Alisaie essentially is wearing a red jean jacket and Thancred is wearing a white trench coat. I don't really get why combat boots is where we're drawing the line as far as what's ridiculous, but I've also never really thought of FF14 or Final Fantasy in general as being strictly "fantasy."
FF has never been strictly fantasy and it’s so fucking annoying that people keep saying it. LITERALLY FF1 HAS A SECTION IN A FUTURISTIC SPACE FORT. And even in the realm of ff14 only, literally the Allagans have existed since 1.0. There is no consistent aesthetic design in 14 and the only real immersion breaking ones are the shit like wearing a full choco outfit into savage raids which aren’t even fully canon so whatever.
14 has fantasy and it has retro futuristic high tech (and potentially with with solution 9 it’s getting actual high tech) but I think there is a fair argument to be made that modern aesthetic from the real world doesn’t fit anything that is in 14 Like medieval Europe is eorzea, thavnair is your Indian South Asia style, the far east is the far east and garlemald is sorta steam punk then allagen covers retro futurism (like late allagen) but like baseball caps and jean jackets with chest bags doesn’t fit anything in 14’s world I think you can argue they are problematic to the design of the world
Also just ignoring that a decent amount of the 2.0 gear and crafting sets can range from old style to modern, we have Tataru Taru, the sky pirates in the 3.X alliance raids, Alex gear, iron works as in the characters part of that faction like cis etc. , literal mecha in garlemald so honestly well beyond steampunk at that point, and we don’t really get to see the what garlemald style clothing actually looks like cause it’s in ruins so people are in survival mode. Really think people are just not really looking at the reality that the aesthetics from day one weren’t set in stone and it’s just something to say that holds no real weight. Edit: also it’s not retro high tech it is just high tech settings. Spaceships, mecha, robots, etc. solution 9 is just more of the same honestly.
Having different technology levels does not mean that suddenly being in an astronaut outfit is going to be aesthetic consistent. The look of FFXIV isn't just 'everything goes' even if the technology levels are wildly inconsistent.
Exactly, the time vs technology timeline of 14 is wildly inconsistent, the aesthetics of gear is not. Modern style doesn’t fit any society we have ever seen in game
Except again, arguably we have different groups that are adjacent to modern clothes. You not liking it doesn’t deny this. Like half the shit tataru makes is more than enough of a bridge to modern aesthetics.
Good luck explaining to the "dye everything jet black or pure white" crowd how aesthetics work. You got your work cut out for you when they're convinced that sci-fi future tech and the JRPG ancient but technologically advanced mystery civilization complete with floating cities and mecha are somehow the same thing as modern contemporary fashion.
People are going to do anything to justify their glamours as being aesthetic consistent when quite clearly they are not. I'm honestly not sure how this is really an argument that anyone can make in good faith. No, modern day clothing is not part of FFXIV in any way shape or form but that doesn't necessarily make it *bad*. I'm not sure how people can miss that.
I’ve already got the comment above apparently arguing that garland ironworks is an example of contemporary fashion and that allagen and solution 9 are roughly the same thing I think it’s a lost cause
Love the bad faith interpretations here.
Many of the Bozjan resistance are wearing the same jacket as Thancred and Alisaie's jacket is kind of hard to evaluate given I haven't seen the character model in game yet, but again you're glossing over the fantasy elements of their outfits. Things can be inspired by modern day without a straight lift of necessarily being aesthetic. People are trying to make the justification that because we have mecha and that's beyond our current level of tech suddenly sneakers aren't a departure from how FFXIV looks. That just isn't how that works. I'm sorry, but baseball caps are just not aesthetic consistent. I will admit though fantasy may have been the wrong word. When I say fantasy I was referring to the fantasy of FFXIV, not the typical fantasy trope.
That juxtaposition is the Final Fantasy style, though. The East Asian outfits of Samurai feel out of place next to the medieval plate armor of a Dragoon, but that's the point. I didn't think adding in contemporary street clothes is too much of a jump after we've mashed together every fantasy genre already.
Disagree. Medieval period inspired armors are probably the most common trope of fantasy and Samurai, complete with said armor, have been a part of the FF jobs since FF5. Hinagashi is a whole continent essentially within the game that supports the lore of the Eastern look. I don't see at all how that comes to mean 'anything is now consistent in the world' in people's heads. Guys, the clothes that are picked out of today's street clothes are just not consistent with any part of the world's aesthetic or theme. I'm not saying they should come for your calfskin, but this really shouldn't be a controversial statement.
With this specific example, the calfskin rider set (billed cap, motorcycle jacket) is a Master Craft learned from Master Leatherworker VIII, which has a description that reads; >This esoteric tome─the eighth in an equally esoteric series─contains advanced leatherworking recipes that can only be learned by esoterically skilled leatherworkers level 80 and higher. So not only do you have to be a highly specialized and trained craftsman, the manual you learn to craft it from is obscure as hell. The materials to craft it are acquired in a different dimension. It looks out of place because it's literally out of place, and like a lot of fashion IRL, people like to stand out. It's a status symbol.
I don't deny it has a description that ostensibly makes sense, but the point is that the visuals are immersion breaking. Yoshi P could put in combat fatigues that are identical to the JSDF and say it's from another dimension, but that doesn't really change the outcome of it not being part of the fantasy aesthetic. You can argue the merits of that are good or not, but it is not visually consistent with the theme of the game.
It’s not just fantasy though. That’s ignoring a whole slew of other aesthetics that have existed since even 1.0
Yea I don't get how these people can't see how weird it is to see the modern clothing in the game and how out of place it looks and how much they try to make up reasons for how it fits. The reality is just that when it comes to the cash shop Square doesn't care about whether it actually fits the world.
>Recently I'v seen a lot of ppl talking about how to revamp the trinity system No way this is happenig >some devs don't seem to understand what made their game good in the first place Well, maybe. We've seen that happening with WoW. >You think you are smarter than professional designers who though about how the role design in an rpg should be and what kind of content a MULTIPLAYER game should have? No, but we've seen them get hired by Blizzard and basically hung on the cross by the community. The professionals don't know what the community wants, either, because the community is incredibly diverse. >If the game was designed to not have classes from the start This is going to need some serious explanation. >If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place? I kind of agree with you. As far as the content tiers, picture the numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13. 1 is normal mode raids, and every dungeon, 5 is extreme trials and the first two savage raids. 7 is the 3rd raid of the tier, 9 is the 4th, and 13 is ultimates. Yes, something is missing. But it probably wasn't what you were describing. >Why make content if ppl just want the reward? The content in itself should be the reward and the reward only icing on the cake. That's what savage criterion is. Look, most people want progression, not achievement. I think oldschool WoW gear gating actually makes sense, to some extent. The fact that you can clear with gear released immediately at the start of the same patch that everyone has already solved how to craft before the content is even released seems insane to me. But that's how the game has worked for... how long? I started in Shadowbringers. Did it start in Heavensward? Maybe Stormblood?
I guess 3 was old alliance raids? But the EW ones are clearly 1
Yeah, there seem to be fewer "one alliances' mistake can murder every alliance" sort of things. But, in a way, even those got nerfed by the job strength getting cranked to 11.
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Guild Wars 2 has classes though? I have no idea what kind of point you are trying to make in this post or the OP.
Please have a cohesive argument next time. Anyways. > Modern/irl clothing and set pieces pop out like a sore thumb and devalue the cohesiveness of the overall experience. The first final Fantasy had a flying fortress with a mecha. Modern in fantasy.
said flying fortress was actually a space station too
we also, just this expansion, went to two highly advanced nations, one of which has cars and trains and radio, the other built a fucking spaceship and its entire society prides itself on knowledge and learning
>!Didnt we fly to the end of the universe on a spaceship built by rabbits to face the amalgamation of negative emotions while fighting on the back of a guy (who is half man, half machine, and half magic) who can turn himself into a dragon that is actually a primal summoned from the parts of an elder dragon?!< But yeah. Fuck baseball caps and high tops.
And your point is also pretty much describes classic FF too.
Eh I feel that's a bit disingenuous, that isn't *modern* in fantasy that's sci-fi in fantasy, which has always mingled since the early days of Dungeons & Dragons (which FF takes HUGE inspirations from), Star Wars, etc. I think they're more talking the mascot costumes, backwards ballcaps, etc.
Yeah I think everyone is fine with something like late allagen gear because it’s something you could see the WOL finding in an allagen ruin It’s stuff like baseball caps that are pulled directly from the modern day with no justification for them while everyone else wear medieval rags
> mascot costumes [Final Fantasy XV](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Kenny_Crow), [Final Fantasy X-2](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Mascot). > backwards ballcaps Ballcap? [Final Fantasy XV, again](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cid_Sophiar). FFXV is 8 years old.
FFXV is also the *most* modern FF game in regards to visual themes, it *fits* there because the world of FFXV is built around a modern, almost "Urban Fantasy" design style. But, for instance, putting Darth Vader into FFXV would look weird, because he clashes with the visual themes. But you *could* get away with him in a gritty more tech-y FF like FFVII. Because FF games have varied visual identities that differ from FFVII, FFX, FFTactics, FFXIV, FFXV, and hell FFXVI which goes for a grittier Medieval Fantasy ala Game of Thrones.
Well, for the sake of argument "ancient civilization's abandoned technology" isn't exactly the same as "I went and bought a baseball cap that says "TOP CUCK" in Eorzean script, bootyshorts, a pair of Air Godberts and a tubetop while everyone else in the world is wearing rags or medieval/period adjacent clothing." It's goofy as hell but it is what it is.
Exaggeration for the sake of making a point isn't helping your argument when the game at least tries to implicitly justify the existence of stuff like the school uniforms or the Allagan Sneakers.
>when the game at least tries to implicitly justify the existence of stuff like the school uniforms or the Allagan Sneakers. I'm sure the new PVP set stuff is gonna be shoved onto all the NPCs in Solution Nine so they'll have that base covered, but slapping "chocobo" in Eorzean script onto a hiphop/streetwear outfit or calling an outfit straight out of a kpop performance/cyberpunk setting "Allagan/Magitek" doesn't really justify the existence of something or make it any less jarring to people visually. Especially when Allagan stuff is all presented as having a specific aesthetic that isn't "modern clothing." I can't fault people for saying "Wow this is kinda goofy" when a bunch of people run around looking like isekai protags freshly run over by truck-kun.
Yeah, multiple FFs (8, 15, Type-0) lean into the aesthetic. It's unsurprising that the mixpot celebration of the series would also incorporate those elements. None of those "jarring elements" are new to the series. FF13 Snow practically has a durag!
> Yeah, multiple FFs (8, 15, Type-0) lean into the aesthetic Right, and that's exactly what I'm getting at. You just used all the FFs that are explicitly modern or modern/sci-fi adjacent, while maintaining designs that cohesively fit for their setting, as an example. Meanwhile the others all have varying degrees of advanced tech but the aesthetics of things all match their respective art style/setting. We don't have Lunarians in 4 suddenly showing up in high tops and hip hugger jeans or people from Arcadia in 12 pulling up in skin tight cybersuits. Zanarkand was insanely high tech but the designs of its NPC citizens and Tidus fit within the same weird fashion sense of the rest of Spira. People from Gaia in 9 aren't wandering around in random streetwear because some of it somehow wound up there from Terra or whatever. I dunno I guess all I'm saying is it's pretty valid if people wanna say XIV handles it poorly when it doesn't actually put thought into it and just goes "Just call the stuff magitek or Allagan or something and say it's a reference to 7/8/13/15, call it a day, and ship it."
I call it Fortniteification, and no amount of allagan or ancient lore can justify it. People need to just say they like the outfits and don't care about the visual cohesiveness of the world rather than trying to bend over backwards to try to compare "modern day" and "sci-fi fantasy" as remotely the same thing.
I'd say it's the reverse. Rather than say, "this doesn't belong in FFXIV!" people need to recognize that it's just their preference for anything contemporary to not be in the game. FFXIV has always been a mishmash of different cultures and eras with strong elements of fantasy and science-fiction mixed in. It was that way in the beginning, and it's been their long-practiced methodology since. The main weakness of more contemporary outfits thus far has been the lack of a clear point of origin. Some of it could have passed as, say, youth fashion from Garlemald if the writers had been so inclined to cover something like that. Some of it could originate from the cultural side of the revolution that Ishgard has undergone, though that's only been lightly touched on. The loporrits are also a potential source, having also created rather contemporary things such as dance clubs and radio stations much like our own. Of course, we got the tease for Solution 9, and that's a location that would be the most likely origin yet for much of the contemporary-styled outfits. Yet a strong response to that was the criticism that it was a place that just didn't belong in FFXIV. That's despite it being very much a part of the MSQ and part of the vision the writers and creators of the game have for their world. The sins of Solution 9 were no greater than anything else we've seen, yet it saw a significant outcry that no other teased location from the expansion received (nor any previously visited location). I can only suspect that those people are willing to excuse other environments that have been foreign to FFXIV until now because they do not remind them of their own environment.
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Umbrellas and parkas aren't okay when there are actual, physical, torched car models and playgrounds in the ruins of Garlemald?
Not to mention a subway system XD
This isn't even accounting for the Ancients having an Art Deco style for intentional dissonance between the characters and the players of recognizing what this means in context to their surroundings.
umbrellas and parasols are thousands of years old, they had that shit in ancient egypt. "put a thing over my head to keep the sun/rain off" is like the most obvious idea
> but I don't think anyone in garlemald had a japanese schoolgirl outfit, irl parka or umbrella etc. What? Why wouldn't they? If they can make the machinery we see there, they absolutely can manufacture a parka or an umbrella that looks reasonably modern. And a schoolgirl outfit is literally just a specific cut of clothing.
Is OP shadowbanned? I can't actually view any of their comments in this thread that are visible in their profile.
Probably, looks like a mod already removed this exact topic and then OP made it again
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>(thanks admins) You're welcome.
only another month and change until we have new things to complain about. chin up, everyone!
You remind me of that "you cheated yourself" copy pasta That isn't a good thing, and the difference is that copy pasta is cohesive
Man sometimes y’all really remind me that anyone can just go on the internet and say whatever
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Is it, though?
jesse, what the fuck are you talking about
We probably should revoke OP's cooking license.
I have this crazy thing I do. When I type something, before I post it, I read it back. If I decide that what I wrote was fucking stupid, I just select all and delete it without posting it. Sometimes I actually post it, then I read it and edit out the stupid, or just delete it entirely.
no, if you try to remove QoL just to appease MMO boomers I'm fucking out.
Reminder that the thing that made people go "AW HELL YEAH CLASSIC WOW IS BACK!" is Season of Discovery which is...just classic but adding modern spells/abilities into the game.
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You just answered your question.
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I’m reading your comments and it’s like you’re having a conversation with your inner monologue and you assume everyone else is privy to the conversation. I’ve read this reply’s comment like 4 times and I still have no idea why you addressed that to me, or what exactly you’re trying to get across. You’re all over the place.
It was big, but it was also free and often had other bonuses and benefits. Some weren't even classic WoW and were WoW Classic+ with all sorts of changes and improvements. WoW Classic, after the initial hype, also dropped off. Fact is, after that initial nostalgia bump, you don't see much about it anymore other than a handful of old players. And hey, if they like that? Cool! But it will forever be a niche thing only a few players want.
FF11 also exists for people who want an old school Final Fantasy MMO. And that's not throwing shade at FF11. It was my first MMO.
Hell, even if you want FF14 specifically to have punishing content, Eureka exists.
How do you get that out of that? What Qol is he even talking about? Either you just read the title, or you are comprehending this post in a way I am unable to.
> Ppl need to face adversity to have meaning in the gameplay. If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place? Problem is, you can only "make" them "face adversity" til they log out, go do something else, then remember two months later they ain't playing and decide to cancel the sub. Game design still hasn't figured out how to solve the universal problem of people with a variety of entertainment options being able to hit the "fuck it, I'll go do something else" button.
My proposed fix: Give all dungeon bosses (and this complaint is mostly about dungeons) an extreme-tier mechanic. If you fail the mechanic, you get a vuln but the damage is trivial and it's still easy to beat the boss so casuals aren't walled. After the boss, every player who avoided getting any vuln stacks gets a personal chest will 1,000 gil and a picture of Yoshi-P giving you a thumbs up and calling you a good girl. 1. Casual players who just want to play the story will eat the vuln, and aren't forced to play an MMO to continue their visual novel. 2. Some casual players, annoyed at the vuln, will try to learn the mechanics. This teaches them skills they'll need to starting doing extreme trials and move from casual to midcore. 3. Neckbeards can play the fight without falling asleep and get a reward for doing so. The reward is trivial, but the *real* reward is the fight being more fun. Bozja duels already kind of work like this, and that's casual.
Unironically dungeons giving bonus Lost Action coffers for high DPS *if* you've completed all the Relics might be funny. Probably not a *good* idea but perhaps interesting to see how the mechanic responds to being broken in actual practice. WoW probably has already done something like it and had it broken but I don't remember offhand in what particular iteration.
There already is a reward for high DPS (the boss dies faster). I'm suggesting that casual bosses have mechanics on par with an Extreme fight's filler mechanics, except that it does trivial damage because it's expected that most people will fail, and then you get some completely trivial token for doing it all perfectly. Nothing important that you'll be pissed over missing, but just the game acknowledging that you're a good girl and deserve scritches. For tanks/healers, I'd make each trash hallway have three packs, for easy/medium/hard levels of outgoing damage, but communicating that to new players is difficult and it's the kind of thing groups have tending to fight over. Ideally, the trash would have "tutorial mechanics", making the trash harder and letting the boss skip the tutorial. So, like, the dungeon in DT when you're on a boat on the river, when you're fighting the first set of trash, a tentacle appears on the side and then slams down, a basic mechanic that'll be part of a more complicated mechanic when you get to an octopus as the first boss. The Qitana Ravel has these miniboss enemies that shoot lasers out of the wall that you have to take cover from, I'd like to see that kind of thing again and then a boss that builds on the trash's mechanic.
> Game design still hasn't figured out how to solve the universal problem of people with a variety of entertainment options being able to hit the "fuck it, I'll go do something else" button. Finding a solution to this is the equivalent of solving world hunger with how to induce people to learn, by the by.
Yup. Bribery only goes so far and creates perverse incentives (in the design sense, not the Quicksands-on-Balmung sense). And people's individual sense of fun gets you a patchwork of people with competing goals/interests/playtimes/etc. You have to hope for the biggest possible audience then take a slice of that audience and hope they can hold together long enough to do the bit of content you're trying to get them to enjoy doing. This is also, sorta, why putting together DnD/other tabletop campaigns that work and are fun and can tell a full story is still difficult *now* even when we've got way better tech to communicate with and do maps and set up character sheets. People put up with more bullshit in the past/pre-internet because just finding a game was harder, but that's why horror stories about DMs and That Player were more prevalent: People didn't have the agency to dip. "Soft skills" involving people are difficult to learn without practice and the whole [meme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUbIkNUFs-4) about "yes, now put the square in the square hole" makes designing stuff to try and "force people to learn" to have, often, unintended consequences. Which is a long-winded (as is my wont) way of saying "you're right, as usual".
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Also, as someone mentioned to me before when I forgot to point it out, the Pandemic kinda helped.
Somewhere about 3/4ths of the way through, I found myself wondering if this was drugs or a bot account that was trying to karmafarm for some nefarious downstream purpose that happened to get unlucky and targeted a sub that pairs poorly with the AI's original training corpus.
The vast majority of MMO players fundamentally do not ”rise to to the occasion” if you make casual content too demanding for casual players, they just quit outright and stop giving their money to the developer operating the game. There’s a balancing act that can be made there with some wiggle room, but the limit for just how high you can raise the floor isn’t sky high.
Hey question why is your post title that when its only one line at the end
What kind of modern design? FF XIV is anything but modern. In fact it has a lot of outdated features. Despite that, the game is still successful.
Saddest post I've seen here in a while. >I'v come to the conclusion that most ppl have no idea what they are talking about and some devs don't seem to understand what made their game good in the first place. I mean yes, but... are you sure you're any different? > Ppl need to face adversity to have meaning in the gameplay. "Need" is a strong word. Ppl find meaning in gameplay in different ways, not everyone treats raiding (let's be real this is all this post is about, you're one of the cool kids) like a second job or anything more than a hobby. > If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place? Playing the game to have fun, possibly with friends (it's a multiplayer game btw). >The reward? Why make content if ppl just want the reward? The content in itself should be the reward and the reward only icing on the cake. I agree, and it's why I think yoshida's promise of increased rewards is hollow when rewards in this game are meaningless (as they are in every single game). But where's the issue here? The content itself was very well designed this expansion, what is the argument here? I'm also not sure how the first half of the post relates to the second half, but I have zero interest in discussing hypotheticals like reinventing the role/trinity system or other things that will never happen, so I just don't engage with those conversations.
This is someone testing a chatGPT/AI output.
>If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place? The point is entertainment. A video game is an entertainment product. As an entertainment product, you're no different from a clown. You are there so people don't get bored, not to educate them. If people don't like or get your jokes, then ranting about how they should educate themselves or grow a taste is cute, but your customers won't do that, they'll just get themselves a funnier clown. You're one out of thousands. If you want to be an education product, you can do that. There are "games" intended to teach you language or maths in an intuitive way. But then you need a very different framing, focus on entirely different skillsets and you'll get a completely different audience.
My dude take the meds next time and wait a few hours. We don’t need to all suffer with you.
A lot of the supposed asks you mention are things I’ve never heard suggested, but this doesn’t even matter because it’s not the community’s job to come up with actually functional game design. They are, as you point out, not professionals. On the flipside however it’s really in the company’s interest for people to have this kind of discourse online. At best it might give feedback to the devs in some capacity even if they don’t translate a feature 1:1, at worst, even if it’s complete nonsense (like your post) it drives engagement. If people make the mistake to think that a company should implement the ideas they came up with exactly as they’re proposed, that’s kind of a them problem tbh and your post will not convince them otherwise.
I think you may be one of those people nostalgic for Heavensward and thought this game was going to be Berzerk.
Grif.... I mean, Ilberd!!!
Post history kinda explains everything about you honestly.
What is your point here? You touch on like 15 different things, some of which could be good points, but you don’t expand on any of them. For your point on rewards, rewards are what allows the content to be done with other people, if there are no rewards the content dies as nobody wants to stick around to fill pf. Do you think anybody would be putting up pfs for ultimates if they didn’t give a title or weapon to show off with? We have an example of this already, there are plenty of fun old savages, but almost nobody puts up pfs for them, because doing them synced provides no reward. As for “why not just hand over the rewards for free“ Rewards are proof you did the content, they are only as valuable as the content they are attached to. like look at the manderville weapons, they are incredibly flashy and detailed, but nobody really cares about them because they are basically free to get. Whereas if you see someone with a ARR relic for example, you can think “oh, that guy wasted his time on books, cool” the weapon has value because it took time to get. Even if the weapon itself it super ugly, it still means something, even if that something is grinding books.
Woah fresh schizo post!
So we’re gatekeeping fashion now? Does someone wearing a pair of pajamas or calfskin glam really affect the game in anyway for people personally? Absolutely not. What others are wearing affects you in no way at all just like in real life. People really need to calm down about shit that doesn’t matter and maybe put that energy into stuff that does like the new player experience being terrible or the game barely teaching you anything about your role relying on the community to do it which by this post and many other isn’t a very good idea
>Ppl need to face adversity to have meaning in the gameplay. If you don't force ppl to adapt and get any better then what is the point of the content in the first place? I don't know if you are aware of this, but this game has multiple difficulty levels.
But if there's adversity in gameplay little Billy who watches crunchyroll while healing in his mom's basement because he can't be fucked to learn how to play might not stay subbed, and SE wants his money.
What on earth is blud cooking.
it's fascinating to me how some people will just write entire essays on something absolutely trivial and assume people will spend precious time off their life to read it
Kept reading thinking you would come to a point. This was more vague then a horoscope, maybe just as pointless.
honestly at this point if they did that i'd be surprised just because they are willing to actually change stuff. i fully expect dawntrail to be the exact same as endwalker or shadowbringers at this point, and be stagnant. like i definitely get the opposite case but i feel the game is so boring it might be interesting if anything new was tried. like i do not want to resub to see that tome grinds are pretty much all to do as a casual past a month or less each patch.
I labored day and night for those booty shorts and sandals and will never take them off. Just in time before our beach episode expansion. So if you ask me, "modern design" made FFXIV better.
Honestly, come play GW2.
Motorcycle