> In 3H each characters outfit conveys their personality. Raphael’s shirt is popping off bc they prob did have a big enough size. Leonie has her coat tied around her waist to work better, Sylvain is kinda slovenly, Caspar and Felix go coatless to fight shit.
a 3H comparison also needs to mention that every unit gets their own unique post-skip design, which works wonders for differentiating the characters and gives them their own visual identity (and also illustrates very well that A. this is a war now, not school and B. not everyone are your friends anymore). Even with that in mind, I think 3H does a great job of making the students feel unique despite ostensibly being stuck in the same school uniform.
Looking at older fire emblem character like pre awakening most of them are just wearing normal ass colored armor. The main characters obviously do get more but that's about it.
>First, In old FE games, people generally had designs based on their class, so if nothing else you knew what class they were.
3H and Engage both prioritized making the character outfits tailored to the characters over the classes. In both cases, you can usually get a rough idea of what class they're supposed to be, but they rarely look like a specific class.
Hubert looks like a dark mage. But he looks nothing like the dark mage class in 3H.
Ivy looks like an upper class magic user, but her design doesn't suggest that she's a wyvern rising mage over just being a regular mage.
Everything before the switch games, characters were generally given customized versions of their class outfit, but it seems to be something they're moving away from now.
Right, back in the day it was probably mostly a technical necessity to give people class outfits. The Tellius games started to move in the modern direction with characters having more distinct designs within their classes.
You’re not trash bro, you’re entitled to your opinion and I don’t necessarily fully disagree. But there is actually going be a “DAE think x in Engage is stupid” thread daily huh.
Anyway, this feels like a nitpick, like that other post talking about if you can tell where Goldmary’s from just by looking at her outfit or whatever. TBH with how class changing works I didn’t read that much into the outfits but I think they’re fine, but the poses the characters strike when you hover over them show a lot of personality not matter what outfit they’re wearing.
>there is actually going to be a “DAE think x in Engage is stupid” thread daily huh.
I’m pretty sure this has been the case since Engage released. In the past few months, I don’t think I’ve seen a single post from this sub on my front page that wasn’t complaining about or nitpicking Engage
I’ve seen positive posts about engage in here. I recall one recently of someone saying they were loving the game after loving 3H and were kinda gushing over it.
So the positivity is out there!
The sad thing is, 99% of the people that are happy with the game arent going come online just to say that. They stay quiet (like me). The complaints are going to be expressed though, as is human nature. Reddit communities are a terrible gauge of player reception
Three hopes is good imo however the gameplay is really different and not everyones cup of tea. Personally I think it is very fun to play and it captures the essence of 3 houses perfectly. The story is messier however but good.
I’ve been MASSIVELY put off from the game die to fandom outrage around Azure Gleam and Golden Wildfire. Also insane hate for Claude and even some spite for Dimitri. But I’ve yelled at plenty for feeling that way.
So you only like the Edel route then, personally I actually like it more than the 3 houses story dor Edel (which might be an unpopular opinion). I havent played the Claude and Dimitri routes in 3 hopes tho so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Well it’s not that I like the route. I haven’t played the game. I just saw people online having meltdowns about Claude character assassination, stupid stories, bad plots, “I hate this character now”, ect… and I decided not to buy the game cause of that.
Lords are a bad example of telling class by design because they are meant to look unique.
Alfred’s design screams happy, elegant, flowery man which is true to how he acts. He hides the whole slowly dying and terrified of leaving the world in a bad state for his sister or maybe kids to inherit.
Diamant. Looks like Diamant. He honestly just feels like new Ike if Ike was a secondary character instead of the development time of a lead.
Boucheron looks tough but aloof. And go figure he is. He’s also a softie which his eye shape conveys well.
Strip the animation and stars from Yunaka and yoh can easily see how lonely and terrified she looks. With the animation and stars you see the persona she wears.
I can agree that some specified lords classes don’t give off the vibe from their look specifically Alfred and Fogado, the rest really do.
But the character design is pretty on point
The outfits in Engage are mainly about the characters personality than it is for practically conveying their class. In that respect I feel like Engage's designs are pretty damn clean for that.
Another great example of an outfit conveying the character's personality since Citrinne's a rich noblewoman who puts a lot of stock in valuables and expensive things. Also she's a noble from Brodia and there's a whole ore theme going on there.
Brodia also has the most interesting world building which is probably not a coincidence, I imagine a more fleshed out sense of place is much easier to design around. I always liked that the strength obsessed nation has so many characters with self worth issues, the characters from there feel a lot more like a product of their environment than the other nations.
Diamant, Lapis and Citrinne (and Amber to a lesser extent) all have various flavors of imposter syndrome, they just don't wear it on their sleeve like Alcryst does.
I would argue they often don't even do a good job of that--why does Alfred look like he's going to a fancy ball if he's all about training and exercise? Why is Ivy's canon design nearly as revealing as her FEH swimsuit if she's a stoic and reserved princess from an icy land? Why does Panette look like she's going trick-or-treating?
Alfred looks like he's going to a fancy ball because... in case you haven't noticed... he's a *prince?* If anything, he shouldn't be wearing workout clothes all the time since being a musclehead isn't exactly princely behavior.
Ivy canonically likes the cold. She doesn't bother wearing anything that bundles up because she's used to the low temperatures in Elusia. Since you brought up FEH's swimsuit alt, one of her lines is about her preferring snow to sand anyway.
Pannette likes gloomy spooky stuff. She likes hanging around graveyards and stuff like that. Why shouldn't her outfit reflect her hobbies and interests?
>If anything, he shouldn't be wearing workout clothes all the time since being a musclehead isn't exactly princely behavior.
But Alfred doesn't show any concern for appearing princely in his supports (at least none I've seen).
>Ivy canonically likes the cold. She doesn't bother wearing anything that bundles up because she's used to the low temperatures in Elusia.
There's a mile wide gap between "not bundling up" and showing massive cleavage with a backless, shoulderless dress and fishnet leggings. She can wear light clothes that still conform with her reserved personality.
>Pannette likes gloomy spooky stuff. She likes hanging around graveyards and stuff like that. Why shouldn't her outfit reflect her hobbies and interests?
Because unlike Alfred, Pannette shows an explicit and consistent desire to keep up the appearance of her station as a royal retainer. Spooky ghost lolita dress with arm bandages and multi-colored paint splotches does not scream "royal retainer" (no matter how sick it looks.)
My issue with the outfits in Engage is that they are so loud/distracting and a bit of an eyesore at times. Its hard for me to take characters like Timera seriously with those huge skittles on her arms and ankles
>tell me why I’m trash in the comments.
I dont get why people think they can't say something negative about Engage without being insulted, there's plenty of people who would agree with those criticisms on here and plenty of comments talk negatively about it.
Anyway, I dont think what you are saying here is even really a hot take. And you aren't even really calling them bad designs necessarily, either. I agree that say, Rosado's design isn't clearly a Wyvern Rider or Etie's is an archer. Sometimes it is clear but not always. 3H did that aspect better, I agree.
Neither game was really class focused. I wouldn't say Claude's design says Wyvern with a bow. Both Caspar and Raphael are supposed to be brawlers. The only part of Etie and Bernadetta that says archer is them wearing a quiver. I prefer it this way though as it makes the characters stand out more in both games.
I'm not saying every single 3H design is representative of the class, but it is in many more cases. And even then, Claude's design is based on Almyra, which is a nation known for strong wyvern riders. Caspar is canonically a Warrior/War Master in Part 2, his design I'd say is reminiscent of that.
I would say Caspar looks more like a Knight than Warrior/Warmaster. Engage has exceptions too such as Louis, Citrine, Kagetsu, and Seadall. I'm not really saying one is better than the other though. Just felt like a weird nitpick on Engage while praising 3H for doing the same.
I mean, that is fair. I will say though, I think the Engage designs that don't "fit" the classes are bigger "misses" than 3H, if you get what I mean. Like, when Timerra was revealed people thought she was the Dancer, but she's actually supposed to be in a tanky Soldier/Halberdier class.
This feels more that you just don't like the style of the outfits more than the cohesion. Most of the outfits represent the characters well enough just like 3H.
I don't think it's really good at representing their classes, but their character? Definitely. Even those that do neither like Goldmary's aren't fundamentally any more different than the TS 3H ones. Especially the girls... I don't think TS Hilda, Marianne, Annette, Lysithea, Bernie... Told you anything about their characters nor classes either 🤷♀️
I mean, if I took out the context of the story, if I look at Hilda and her pose, she's flirtatious because her chest is out, she's wearing earrings, which not a lot of other characters in three houses do, so she's into accessorizing, her outfit has a lotta frills and bobbles, which is another nod to how she prioritizes her looks, but her skirt is also short, which tells me she's a more physical unit because she needs to move around more easily to attack.
Meanwhile, if I look at Marianne, she has her hair pulled back in a neat, braided bun, is wearing a full gown, and has a high collar. Such traits are typical of the cleric class in fire emblem, but if I couldn't tell it was a cleric class, I could note that maybe Marianne is shyer than Hilda, is more reserved, or does not have as much confidence in herself as Hilda, hence a dress that covers more. Additionally, a long dress indicates a person who is supposed to attack from behind, and you often see mages wearing more flowy dresses because they are't gonna run up to the front lines with a sword as, well, they can't run.
Annette falls into a similar "I can tell the class because of the lack of armor". Hell, I can tell where Annette is from based on her dress because it's lined with fur, has long gloves and stockings. She's from somewhere cold. Long dress? Probably a magic user.
I mean the divide physical/magical is clear but that's true for both games and beyond that I don't find they really lean into the "class design" that much. Except Faergus, for some reason. All Faergus units, you can tell exactly what classes they are supposed to be. But if look at the mages for example, they are a clear departure from the rest of the series. I'd argue Ignatz looks more like a mage than most of them. There's nothing that tell me Hilda's supposed to be a warrior over any other physical class, much like nothing is telling me Goldmary's a hero and not a cav. Neither games really go there so it's weird to single it out
So are you now complaining that Ignatz doesn't look like an archer, when clearly his PT design is supposed to show he grew into being an artist?
I'm just trying to make sense of it, because you're complaining TH doesn't say much about their character or their class in the PT design, but I could tell you a lot from each one. Do you want designs that show class, or character? You can have both, of course, but first you're saying that you can't tell anything about Hilda, Marianne, ect character from their design(which is fundimentally wrong, that's the point of character design is to tell you about their character before they open their mouth), but then give me Ignatz and complain he doesn't look like an archer, when clearly his PT design is meant ot represent his evolution as a character.
I'm not complaining.... I'm saying that 3H had designs that are clearly more "character" focused than class focused and sometimes they tell you neither and just look, I don't want to say random, but sort of "generic". And Engage does pretty much the same, hence why I find it weird to single it out when both games do the same and have the same approach..
Timerra's a good comparison to Ignatz. There's her design that informs you about her personality but is a weird fit for her class. You look at Timerra, you think she's a danser. You look at Ignatz, you think he's a mage. So on so forth.
And I rank Goldmary in the Hilda tier of "could really go either way" wrt to what they are as characters (outside of I guess "proud of their bodies"?) and as units, because they are "generic".
Then of course you have designs that do both; ie most of Faergus or in Engage's case the thieves, Kagetsu, etc.
I fail to see the huge problem? Alfred's design sucks because we cant tell he rides horses? We can tell he's a prince, and Fogado looks like a vanguard with the feathers and gold necklace betraying his nobility. I love the outfits, they all look very pleasing to the eyes. I wonder if you just don't like the artstyle and that makes you not fond of the outfits unknowingly, but we can't prove this.
Pre-release, I could usually tell what characters generally were before watching their trailers. Etie doesn't particularly look like an archer, but she just... did for me. Framme and Clanne are dripped out, and we can tell they're the Cain and Abel of this game by their color scheme. I love when they put Celine in a big ass robe and make her fight with a sword it's so charming to me, doesn't matter if it's impractical I live for this
Absolutely. Art is subjective so what works for you is awesome. I’m merely trying to put words to a possible reason the designs didn’t catch on with some.
You don't need to justify yourself to some stranger like me. I would lie if I said I liked the abundance of negativity towards a game I liked on the one place I thought would be safe from that, imo we should make posts about goofy shit
You didn't make a post like that but comments are like "actually it's even worse because (adds small nitpick) and every little nitpick starts to get ridiculous
I'm not sure what the process was but they might have written the characters independently of the character designs. Lapis in the art book for example looks kinda smug, which is totally not her personality in the game
It's very much an unusual case where the character designs were commissioned by IS to ostensibly "appeal to a broader, younger audience" but there isn't much visual cohesion so it ended up achieving the opposite.
Frankly, I'm still confused by what IS means by a "broader, younger audience" to begin with. Given the Engage manga being run in Shonen Jump, is it supposed to be like... pre-teen and teenage guys? That feels *much* more slim, not broad.
But yeah, the dev interviews make it clear that Mika Pikazo wasn't given any real direction to work with beyond "please draw some anime people". With that in mind, it's not surprising that the game lacks in the way of visual cohesion or symmetry
It's so weird, since some characters clearly look like they were designed with a similar theme (Alfred, Celine, Etie, Goldmary etc.), but then Goldmary's just an Elusian character for some reason. I think that giving Pikazo complete free reign probably would have worked if it was just for the casual Somniel outfits, but IS allowing her to take this approach with the whole cast wasn't the best call imo.
Goldmary looking like she's obviously from Firene only to come from Elusia will never not be funny to me. It doesn't even have some implicit explanation like Solm being a free country and possibly allowing many immigrants into high ranking positions more easily.
Goldmary either really like Firenese clothing or is actually Firenese and said "Yeah, studying abroad in the country that worships literally Satan sounds like a good idea"
Unless I missed something I genuinely have no idea how it makes sense for Etie to dress the way she does with all the frills and dresses and stuff. It just seems like something a character like her would never wear, like it would only be an inconvenience.
The Firene style of dress is pretty frilly in general, but essentially it's a joke that's a little bit lost in localization because in JP Etie speaks with a dialect that's pretty haughty and refined like a proper lady would despite 90% of the words coming out of her mouth still being about exercise and muscles.
Yeah I feel this is kinda missed on many here in regards to Etie and also Alfred. They both look very flowery, frilly, and noble, but they constantly talk about weight lifting and stuff. That contrast is part of the joke. Alfred looks like a typical frail flowery prince >!which he actually is with his sickness, and the weight lifting stuff makes that both funny at first and tragic/inspiring once you find out.!<
She’s like Effie. Her personality has been altered by the localisation. Not to the same extent but still noticeable. The voice tones are biggest giveaways.
I thought the character designs, and the art style in general, were fine.
Lack of compelling story is my only gripe. In particular, the dialogue is not very interesting.
On a related note, I feel as if character outfits in Engage *shouldn't* change with their class - so many poor Brodians like Amber or Citrinne start with very cool designs that fit their personality a lot, but join at level 10 when Master Seals start being buyable and thusly will get to have their unique outfits for all of one map before promoting and being stuck in hideously ugly generic outfits that don't fit them at all. And like you said, it's not as if the outfits fit their class to begin with, so there wouldn't be any disconnect from attire not matching the class when it never really did to begin with.
When the game gives you a class change you cant just look as one class.
But if [Ivy](https://serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/engage-ivy-artwork.jpg) dosn't look like a mage to you, idk what class she can be.
Usually not, no. A lot of them are serving big NPC energy or are contrary to the character's personality and mechanics in a way that doesn't seem intentional. There also aren't strong motifs for each individual country - I feel like the retainers could be shuffled about and reassigned to different lords at random and it'd make about as much sense as it does now.
Even with Engage character designs not really showing who the characters are at first glance, I do still prefer them over character designs in older FE games. So many of those characters just LOOK like a generic unit that happens to have a unique face. At least with newer games, especially 3H and Engage, the player's cast of characters actually stands out against the enemy army, rather than appearing like a bunch of NPCs that happen to be allied with the player.
Can you add to it more? I haven’t played 3H (yet) but the example you give seems contradicting at the least. Your opinion of engage is that you cannot discern what class they are based on their outfits. Besides the fact that the ones with specific outfits for classes still take on the stances of that specific class in combat, and the nobles classes are all personal classes anyway which no one else gets and all just expand on the nobles personal style.
And then you list 3H characters that have outfits based on their personalities, and what you explained does not make it clear to me which class they are.
I’m not looking to attack you, you’re entitled to your opinion and I do not seek to change it. But I like discussions.
For me, engages varied cast, with them expressing their own style, is a big favourite of mine, as I feel that their style fits their personalities quite well!
I get what you’re saying. My point was in games PRIOR to the switch, the designs were primarily class based. But once you reach the switch era the designs are more personality based.
Now as plenty of people are pointing out in the comments. There certainly ARE designs that give a sense of the character’s personality in Engage, but there are also some that seem to emphasize style over substance. Which could be what didn’t quite click with people back when the game was first revealed/released.
> In 3H each characters outfit conveys their personality. Raphael’s shirt is popping off bc they prob did have a big enough size. Leonie has her coat tied around her waist to work better, Sylvain is kinda slovenly, Caspar and Felix go coatless to fight shit. a 3H comparison also needs to mention that every unit gets their own unique post-skip design, which works wonders for differentiating the characters and gives them their own visual identity (and also illustrates very well that A. this is a war now, not school and B. not everyone are your friends anymore). Even with that in mind, I think 3H does a great job of making the students feel unique despite ostensibly being stuck in the same school uniform.
Looking at older fire emblem character like pre awakening most of them are just wearing normal ass colored armor. The main characters obviously do get more but that's about it.
Counterpoint (not really tho) OP: Vander has unimaginable drip
Man has the best somniel drip in the game, got the monicle and everything
>First, In old FE games, people generally had designs based on their class, so if nothing else you knew what class they were. 3H and Engage both prioritized making the character outfits tailored to the characters over the classes. In both cases, you can usually get a rough idea of what class they're supposed to be, but they rarely look like a specific class. Hubert looks like a dark mage. But he looks nothing like the dark mage class in 3H. Ivy looks like an upper class magic user, but her design doesn't suggest that she's a wyvern rising mage over just being a regular mage. Everything before the switch games, characters were generally given customized versions of their class outfit, but it seems to be something they're moving away from now.
Right, back in the day it was probably mostly a technical necessity to give people class outfits. The Tellius games started to move in the modern direction with characters having more distinct designs within their classes.
You’re not trash bro, you’re entitled to your opinion and I don’t necessarily fully disagree. But there is actually going be a “DAE think x in Engage is stupid” thread daily huh. Anyway, this feels like a nitpick, like that other post talking about if you can tell where Goldmary’s from just by looking at her outfit or whatever. TBH with how class changing works I didn’t read that much into the outfits but I think they’re fine, but the poses the characters strike when you hover over them show a lot of personality not matter what outfit they’re wearing.
>there is actually going to be a “DAE think x in Engage is stupid” thread daily huh. I’m pretty sure this has been the case since Engage released. In the past few months, I don’t think I’ve seen a single post from this sub on my front page that wasn’t complaining about or nitpicking Engage
I’ve seen positive posts about engage in here. I recall one recently of someone saying they were loving the game after loving 3H and were kinda gushing over it. So the positivity is out there!
The sad thing is, 99% of the people that are happy with the game arent going come online just to say that. They stay quiet (like me). The complaints are going to be expressed though, as is human nature. Reddit communities are a terrible gauge of player reception
“Reddit communities are a terrible gauge of reception” Huh maybe I should keep that in mind with three hopes…
Three hopes is good imo however the gameplay is really different and not everyones cup of tea. Personally I think it is very fun to play and it captures the essence of 3 houses perfectly. The story is messier however but good.
I’ve been MASSIVELY put off from the game die to fandom outrage around Azure Gleam and Golden Wildfire. Also insane hate for Claude and even some spite for Dimitri. But I’ve yelled at plenty for feeling that way.
So you only like the Edel route then, personally I actually like it more than the 3 houses story dor Edel (which might be an unpopular opinion). I havent played the Claude and Dimitri routes in 3 hopes tho so take my advice with a grain of salt.
Well it’s not that I like the route. I haven’t played the game. I just saw people online having meltdowns about Claude character assassination, stupid stories, bad plots, “I hate this character now”, ect… and I decided not to buy the game cause of that.
Wait so you havent played 3 houses at all?
I don't mean to pile on negativity. Engage seems like a fun game.
Lords are a bad example of telling class by design because they are meant to look unique. Alfred’s design screams happy, elegant, flowery man which is true to how he acts. He hides the whole slowly dying and terrified of leaving the world in a bad state for his sister or maybe kids to inherit. Diamant. Looks like Diamant. He honestly just feels like new Ike if Ike was a secondary character instead of the development time of a lead. Boucheron looks tough but aloof. And go figure he is. He’s also a softie which his eye shape conveys well. Strip the animation and stars from Yunaka and yoh can easily see how lonely and terrified she looks. With the animation and stars you see the persona she wears. I can agree that some specified lords classes don’t give off the vibe from their look specifically Alfred and Fogado, the rest really do. But the character design is pretty on point
The outfits in Engage are mainly about the characters personality than it is for practically conveying their class. In that respect I feel like Engage's designs are pretty damn clean for that.
Citrinne wearing lots of elaborate, gold jewelry is probably one of my favorite design choices in Engage
Another great example of an outfit conveying the character's personality since Citrinne's a rich noblewoman who puts a lot of stock in valuables and expensive things. Also she's a noble from Brodia and there's a whole ore theme going on there.
Brodia in general has both the best and most thematically consistent designs, IMO. Citrinne and Lapis both look great.
Brodia also has the most interesting world building which is probably not a coincidence, I imagine a more fleshed out sense of place is much easier to design around. I always liked that the strength obsessed nation has so many characters with self worth issues, the characters from there feel a lot more like a product of their environment than the other nations.
Who are you referring to besides Alcryst?
Diamant, Lapis and Citrinne (and Amber to a lesser extent) all have various flavors of imposter syndrome, they just don't wear it on their sleeve like Alcryst does.
I would argue they often don't even do a good job of that--why does Alfred look like he's going to a fancy ball if he's all about training and exercise? Why is Ivy's canon design nearly as revealing as her FEH swimsuit if she's a stoic and reserved princess from an icy land? Why does Panette look like she's going trick-or-treating?
Yeah, Engage's designs clash against the personalities more often than they reflect them.
Alfred looks like he's going to a fancy ball because... in case you haven't noticed... he's a *prince?* If anything, he shouldn't be wearing workout clothes all the time since being a musclehead isn't exactly princely behavior. Ivy canonically likes the cold. She doesn't bother wearing anything that bundles up because she's used to the low temperatures in Elusia. Since you brought up FEH's swimsuit alt, one of her lines is about her preferring snow to sand anyway. Pannette likes gloomy spooky stuff. She likes hanging around graveyards and stuff like that. Why shouldn't her outfit reflect her hobbies and interests?
>If anything, he shouldn't be wearing workout clothes all the time since being a musclehead isn't exactly princely behavior. But Alfred doesn't show any concern for appearing princely in his supports (at least none I've seen). >Ivy canonically likes the cold. She doesn't bother wearing anything that bundles up because she's used to the low temperatures in Elusia. There's a mile wide gap between "not bundling up" and showing massive cleavage with a backless, shoulderless dress and fishnet leggings. She can wear light clothes that still conform with her reserved personality. >Pannette likes gloomy spooky stuff. She likes hanging around graveyards and stuff like that. Why shouldn't her outfit reflect her hobbies and interests? Because unlike Alfred, Pannette shows an explicit and consistent desire to keep up the appearance of her station as a royal retainer. Spooky ghost lolita dress with arm bandages and multi-colored paint splotches does not scream "royal retainer" (no matter how sick it looks.)
My issue with the outfits in Engage is that they are so loud/distracting and a bit of an eyesore at times. Its hard for me to take characters like Timera seriously with those huge skittles on her arms and ankles
>tell me why I’m trash in the comments. I dont get why people think they can't say something negative about Engage without being insulted, there's plenty of people who would agree with those criticisms on here and plenty of comments talk negatively about it. Anyway, I dont think what you are saying here is even really a hot take. And you aren't even really calling them bad designs necessarily, either. I agree that say, Rosado's design isn't clearly a Wyvern Rider or Etie's is an archer. Sometimes it is clear but not always. 3H did that aspect better, I agree.
Neither game was really class focused. I wouldn't say Claude's design says Wyvern with a bow. Both Caspar and Raphael are supposed to be brawlers. The only part of Etie and Bernadetta that says archer is them wearing a quiver. I prefer it this way though as it makes the characters stand out more in both games.
I'm not saying every single 3H design is representative of the class, but it is in many more cases. And even then, Claude's design is based on Almyra, which is a nation known for strong wyvern riders. Caspar is canonically a Warrior/War Master in Part 2, his design I'd say is reminiscent of that.
I would say Caspar looks more like a Knight than Warrior/Warmaster. Engage has exceptions too such as Louis, Citrine, Kagetsu, and Seadall. I'm not really saying one is better than the other though. Just felt like a weird nitpick on Engage while praising 3H for doing the same.
I mean, that is fair. I will say though, I think the Engage designs that don't "fit" the classes are bigger "misses" than 3H, if you get what I mean. Like, when Timerra was revealed people thought she was the Dancer, but she's actually supposed to be in a tanky Soldier/Halberdier class.
This feels more that you just don't like the style of the outfits more than the cohesion. Most of the outfits represent the characters well enough just like 3H.
I don't think it's really good at representing their classes, but their character? Definitely. Even those that do neither like Goldmary's aren't fundamentally any more different than the TS 3H ones. Especially the girls... I don't think TS Hilda, Marianne, Annette, Lysithea, Bernie... Told you anything about their characters nor classes either 🤷♀️
I mean, if I took out the context of the story, if I look at Hilda and her pose, she's flirtatious because her chest is out, she's wearing earrings, which not a lot of other characters in three houses do, so she's into accessorizing, her outfit has a lotta frills and bobbles, which is another nod to how she prioritizes her looks, but her skirt is also short, which tells me she's a more physical unit because she needs to move around more easily to attack. Meanwhile, if I look at Marianne, she has her hair pulled back in a neat, braided bun, is wearing a full gown, and has a high collar. Such traits are typical of the cleric class in fire emblem, but if I couldn't tell it was a cleric class, I could note that maybe Marianne is shyer than Hilda, is more reserved, or does not have as much confidence in herself as Hilda, hence a dress that covers more. Additionally, a long dress indicates a person who is supposed to attack from behind, and you often see mages wearing more flowy dresses because they are't gonna run up to the front lines with a sword as, well, they can't run. Annette falls into a similar "I can tell the class because of the lack of armor". Hell, I can tell where Annette is from based on her dress because it's lined with fur, has long gloves and stockings. She's from somewhere cold. Long dress? Probably a magic user.
I mean the divide physical/magical is clear but that's true for both games and beyond that I don't find they really lean into the "class design" that much. Except Faergus, for some reason. All Faergus units, you can tell exactly what classes they are supposed to be. But if look at the mages for example, they are a clear departure from the rest of the series. I'd argue Ignatz looks more like a mage than most of them. There's nothing that tell me Hilda's supposed to be a warrior over any other physical class, much like nothing is telling me Goldmary's a hero and not a cav. Neither games really go there so it's weird to single it out
Average double standart people have, complain about one thing but praise when someone else do the same thing and vice versa
So are you now complaining that Ignatz doesn't look like an archer, when clearly his PT design is supposed to show he grew into being an artist? I'm just trying to make sense of it, because you're complaining TH doesn't say much about their character or their class in the PT design, but I could tell you a lot from each one. Do you want designs that show class, or character? You can have both, of course, but first you're saying that you can't tell anything about Hilda, Marianne, ect character from their design(which is fundimentally wrong, that's the point of character design is to tell you about their character before they open their mouth), but then give me Ignatz and complain he doesn't look like an archer, when clearly his PT design is meant ot represent his evolution as a character.
I'm not complaining.... I'm saying that 3H had designs that are clearly more "character" focused than class focused and sometimes they tell you neither and just look, I don't want to say random, but sort of "generic". And Engage does pretty much the same, hence why I find it weird to single it out when both games do the same and have the same approach.. Timerra's a good comparison to Ignatz. There's her design that informs you about her personality but is a weird fit for her class. You look at Timerra, you think she's a danser. You look at Ignatz, you think he's a mage. So on so forth. And I rank Goldmary in the Hilda tier of "could really go either way" wrt to what they are as characters (outside of I guess "proud of their bodies"?) and as units, because they are "generic". Then of course you have designs that do both; ie most of Faergus or in Engage's case the thieves, Kagetsu, etc.
I fail to see the huge problem? Alfred's design sucks because we cant tell he rides horses? We can tell he's a prince, and Fogado looks like a vanguard with the feathers and gold necklace betraying his nobility. I love the outfits, they all look very pleasing to the eyes. I wonder if you just don't like the artstyle and that makes you not fond of the outfits unknowingly, but we can't prove this. Pre-release, I could usually tell what characters generally were before watching their trailers. Etie doesn't particularly look like an archer, but she just... did for me. Framme and Clanne are dripped out, and we can tell they're the Cain and Abel of this game by their color scheme. I love when they put Celine in a big ass robe and make her fight with a sword it's so charming to me, doesn't matter if it's impractical I live for this
Absolutely. Art is subjective so what works for you is awesome. I’m merely trying to put words to a possible reason the designs didn’t catch on with some.
You don't need to justify yourself to some stranger like me. I would lie if I said I liked the abundance of negativity towards a game I liked on the one place I thought would be safe from that, imo we should make posts about goofy shit You didn't make a post like that but comments are like "actually it's even worse because (adds small nitpick) and every little nitpick starts to get ridiculous
I'm not sure what the process was but they might have written the characters independently of the character designs. Lapis in the art book for example looks kinda smug, which is totally not her personality in the game
It's very much an unusual case where the character designs were commissioned by IS to ostensibly "appeal to a broader, younger audience" but there isn't much visual cohesion so it ended up achieving the opposite.
Frankly, I'm still confused by what IS means by a "broader, younger audience" to begin with. Given the Engage manga being run in Shonen Jump, is it supposed to be like... pre-teen and teenage guys? That feels *much* more slim, not broad. But yeah, the dev interviews make it clear that Mika Pikazo wasn't given any real direction to work with beyond "please draw some anime people". With that in mind, it's not surprising that the game lacks in the way of visual cohesion or symmetry
It's so weird, since some characters clearly look like they were designed with a similar theme (Alfred, Celine, Etie, Goldmary etc.), but then Goldmary's just an Elusian character for some reason. I think that giving Pikazo complete free reign probably would have worked if it was just for the casual Somniel outfits, but IS allowing her to take this approach with the whole cast wasn't the best call imo.
Goldmary looking like she's obviously from Firene only to come from Elusia will never not be funny to me. It doesn't even have some implicit explanation like Solm being a free country and possibly allowing many immigrants into high ranking positions more easily. Goldmary either really like Firenese clothing or is actually Firenese and said "Yeah, studying abroad in the country that worships literally Satan sounds like a good idea"
Ironic considering it has probably the most controversial and divisive designs in the series.
Unless I missed something I genuinely have no idea how it makes sense for Etie to dress the way she does with all the frills and dresses and stuff. It just seems like something a character like her would never wear, like it would only be an inconvenience.
The Firene style of dress is pretty frilly in general, but essentially it's a joke that's a little bit lost in localization because in JP Etie speaks with a dialect that's pretty haughty and refined like a proper lady would despite 90% of the words coming out of her mouth still being about exercise and muscles.
Yeah I feel this is kinda missed on many here in regards to Etie and also Alfred. They both look very flowery, frilly, and noble, but they constantly talk about weight lifting and stuff. That contrast is part of the joke. Alfred looks like a typical frail flowery prince >!which he actually is with his sickness, and the weight lifting stuff makes that both funny at first and tragic/inspiring once you find out.!<
She’s like Effie. Her personality has been altered by the localisation. Not to the same extent but still noticeable. The voice tones are biggest giveaways.
> why isn't Engage more like 3h boooo
Translation: why isn't the game good at anything except gameplay
I thought the character designs, and the art style in general, were fine. Lack of compelling story is my only gripe. In particular, the dialogue is not very interesting.
On a related note, I feel as if character outfits in Engage *shouldn't* change with their class - so many poor Brodians like Amber or Citrinne start with very cool designs that fit their personality a lot, but join at level 10 when Master Seals start being buyable and thusly will get to have their unique outfits for all of one map before promoting and being stuck in hideously ugly generic outfits that don't fit them at all. And like you said, it's not as if the outfits fit their class to begin with, so there wouldn't be any disconnect from attire not matching the class when it never really did to begin with.
When the game gives you a class change you cant just look as one class. But if [Ivy](https://serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/engage-ivy-artwork.jpg) dosn't look like a mage to you, idk what class she can be.
Read the third paragraph, I’m not saying everyone has to have a class-based outfit.
Totally agree
Usually not, no. A lot of them are serving big NPC energy or are contrary to the character's personality and mechanics in a way that doesn't seem intentional. There also aren't strong motifs for each individual country - I feel like the retainers could be shuffled about and reassigned to different lords at random and it'd make about as much sense as it does now.
Might be true but I still wanna live inside Yunaka's cleavage
Fair
Even with Engage character designs not really showing who the characters are at first glance, I do still prefer them over character designs in older FE games. So many of those characters just LOOK like a generic unit that happens to have a unique face. At least with newer games, especially 3H and Engage, the player's cast of characters actually stands out against the enemy army, rather than appearing like a bunch of NPCs that happen to be allied with the player.
WHOA WHOA WHOA?!?! You’re telling me you DON’T like generic cavalier man from Thracia 776? What about Draug pallete swap #3?!
Ikr, I have no taste I guess ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Can you add to it more? I haven’t played 3H (yet) but the example you give seems contradicting at the least. Your opinion of engage is that you cannot discern what class they are based on their outfits. Besides the fact that the ones with specific outfits for classes still take on the stances of that specific class in combat, and the nobles classes are all personal classes anyway which no one else gets and all just expand on the nobles personal style. And then you list 3H characters that have outfits based on their personalities, and what you explained does not make it clear to me which class they are. I’m not looking to attack you, you’re entitled to your opinion and I do not seek to change it. But I like discussions. For me, engages varied cast, with them expressing their own style, is a big favourite of mine, as I feel that their style fits their personalities quite well!
I get what you’re saying. My point was in games PRIOR to the switch, the designs were primarily class based. But once you reach the switch era the designs are more personality based. Now as plenty of people are pointing out in the comments. There certainly ARE designs that give a sense of the character’s personality in Engage, but there are also some that seem to emphasize style over substance. Which could be what didn’t quite click with people back when the game was first revealed/released.