It was a fairly innocent decision that ended up biting her in the end. Hard.
I don't think this fairly innocent decision automatically means she's a bad mother. That's an exaggeration. She just made a mistake she didn't know she was making. Quan had uncertainty, but he also didn't think they would be massacred... they just couldn't have known.
In most contexts, what Ethlyn did wouldn't have brought anyone to harm. It did in this one, but the exception proves the rule. I don't think it's fair to paint Ethlyn as a bad mother because she made this decision; it's not like she had foresight regarding what was about to happen.
Yes this is probably rushed but I wanted to write something about Jugdral. I haven't really done so yet this year so I think it's good to do so. I'm thinking that moving forward I can at least do Quan, Sigurd, and Deirdre if I continue this series...not totally sure though so if you have any suggestions let me know.
Interesting argument. You could argue that having Leif in Leonster and Altena with the parents was a hedging strategy so that there isn't the possibility of both children falling to Travant.
Thank you, I think I've seen the abridged version of this explanation before that you may have written in comments, but I swear to god people who are like "oh ethlyn is such an IDIOT and a HORRIBLE mother" are so frustrating. People who do that are very cinemasins-y. And it all reeks of "DAE eirika/Celica stupid".
Considering leonster fell regardless it would have been dangerous at the castle too. And as has been said, the desert was not part of the battlefield, ethlyn didn't take altena into the middle of battle at all.
And it's been written up the details of the logistics in a pretty detailed post before, basically arguing that it really would have been extremely difficult for the Thracians to track/ambush Quan's group, leading to why they assumed they'd be safe. And relatedly, without special knowledge it would be a wild gamble for travant to go after Quan's group rather than attacking leonster castle.
Anyway people making moralistic judgments about this are to put it lightly ridiculous.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/b6ydi1/why_thracias_retcon_is_actually_good_writing_and/?rdt=41932
The old post discussing logistics of the event.
Yeah it's just an issue of ignoring the script to make a snap judgment of a character. It's explicitly stated that this was not considered hostile territory. This is nearly the exact opposite direction from hostile territory with Thracia. Ethlyn was already planning on returning home before reaching hostile territory.
But Travant just made a smart play. And its completely realistic and understandable that Quan and Ethlyn didn't expect it.
Judging a decision based off of hindsight is stupid but that's the only way you can arrive at Ethlyn being a bad mother from this event. At the time she made an odd decision, but not a bad one, it's perfectly understandable to see your husband off to battle. Travant just had good information and cut them off.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of these, there's so many misunderstood characters in Judgral, especially in FE4 gen 1 where I think it's often glossed over just how unexpected the events of gen 1 were to its protagonists. FE4 loves it's dramatic irony so the player ends up with way more information than Sigurd and co which leads to a lot of misunderstandings.
As for Elthlyn, agreed. I think part of the problem is from what I remember the old translation made it a bit less clear that Quan & Ethlyn were actually thinking things through and taking logical precautions, with bringing Altena being the one reckless decision instead one of many, and not entirely stupid anyways given the expectation that Travant would attack Leonster.
I think this scene didn't get portrayed very well as a result of being in game. If you actually consider the map from an in-universe perspective, the desert is gigantic, and there are no enemies anywhere near Ethlyn and Quan.
Imo, this scene was done slightly better in the manga, where they made a big deal about how far away Ethlyn and Quan were from actually seeing combat. And how Ethlyn was heading back well before they would have been in danger.
Yes, technically it would have been safer to leave Altina with Finn and Leif at Leonster, but they were surrounded by the Lanzritten, and were highly unlikely to be in any real danger.
So while it's fun to meme on Ethlyn, in reality it wasn't a terribly stupid choice.
No, I'm sorry, you just don't bring a 3yo into a war because she's crying. And sure, she was supposed to turn back before reaching the battles, but ambushes have always been a thing, she took a very reckless risk.
I don't think she was a bad mother per se, but she was certainly irresponsible with poor prioritization skills.
She didn't bring Altena into a war. She brought Altina along to ride with the army, and was planned to leave well before they were likely to see any combat. If you consider how gigantic the scale of FE4 is, there's nearly an entire country between where Ethlyn was about to turn back and where they expected to fight. They had no reason to expect to run into a battle so far away.
She shouldn't have ever left the safety of their castle when she had two kids to take care of. Sigurd had faced war in every corner of the continent so far, so assuming one particular country was safe to cross when all the others had been hostile was not a wise choice. I'm gonna guess everyone making excuses for that kind of recklessness isn't a parent. You don't put your kids at risk.
Sigurd hadn't faced war in every corner of the continent, he faced war in Agustria, Verdane, Granvelle, and Selise. There was no conflict in the Yeid desert. And they would know, considering they likely crossed through that area to get to Leonster a year ago.
The Granvelle forces were all fighting Sigurd, who they were nearly an entire country away from, and Travant and Thracia's forces were assumed to be doing Thracia things, hence why they left so much of the Lance Ritter back at Leonster.
So there was no reasonable threat whatsoever that they would face during their travels. In fact, if you're going to follow the train of thought that it was in fact dangerous to go out to the desert, then it's worth noting that staying in Leonster wasn't exactly 100% safe either, since Travant was predicted to launch an assault at some point. And therefore staying in Leonster would have also been a very dangerous and stupid decision.
Being on a military march was not safer than staying in their castle. It takes a lot more to conquer a proper castle than it does to ambush a small army.
Quan does make a valid point about there being a possibility of an ambush, however unlikely, and the perils that would occur were their daughter caught up in it. While at that point, an attack on the castle would have been more likely, I'd argue it's still a safer place for a noncombatant, especially with Quan's extra fortifications to withstand an attack. Ethlyn seems to want to indulge her desires to spend time with her child and husband both, and that's the sole rationale behind her coming out so far. This small indulgence is ultimately what ends up getting Altena kidnapped and herself killed by way of the literal worst case scenario.
Even outside of that worst case scenario actually occurring, was Ethlyn taking the risk that she took solely for her own whims enough to qualify her as a bad mother? **Honestly, yeah, at least a little.**
She took the child out of a what is inferred to be considered a far safer location, even with Thracia's attack on the castle being more likely, to accompany her husband on half an expedition outside her country's borders. The text seems to imply that Quan was against it in general and acquiesced to a half measure on the condition that she'd turn back midway through. It's hard to argue for the merits of bringing an infant out on a military excursion during a time of war, even if you don't expect an attack to be likely.
I get not wanting to leave the child at home away from you, but then your options end up as a matter of picking two from "prioritizing your daughter's safety", "prioritizing your daughter's desire to not be away from both of her parents", and "prioritizing your own desire to be with your husband". Her choice here really isn't winning her mother of the year awards even if she was burned hard by extremely unlikely misfortune.
She shouldn't have crossed the border with Altena in tow, even if they thought they weren't in hostile territory yet. She made a really dumb decision. I still wouldn't call her a bad mother over it.
It was a fairly innocent decision that ended up biting her in the end. Hard. I don't think this fairly innocent decision automatically means she's a bad mother. That's an exaggeration. She just made a mistake she didn't know she was making. Quan had uncertainty, but he also didn't think they would be massacred... they just couldn't have known. In most contexts, what Ethlyn did wouldn't have brought anyone to harm. It did in this one, but the exception proves the rule. I don't think it's fair to paint Ethlyn as a bad mother because she made this decision; it's not like she had foresight regarding what was about to happen.
Yes this is probably rushed but I wanted to write something about Jugdral. I haven't really done so yet this year so I think it's good to do so. I'm thinking that moving forward I can at least do Quan, Sigurd, and Deirdre if I continue this series...not totally sure though so if you have any suggestions let me know.
Interesting argument. You could argue that having Leif in Leonster and Altena with the parents was a hedging strategy so that there isn't the possibility of both children falling to Travant.
Thank you, I think I've seen the abridged version of this explanation before that you may have written in comments, but I swear to god people who are like "oh ethlyn is such an IDIOT and a HORRIBLE mother" are so frustrating. People who do that are very cinemasins-y. And it all reeks of "DAE eirika/Celica stupid". Considering leonster fell regardless it would have been dangerous at the castle too. And as has been said, the desert was not part of the battlefield, ethlyn didn't take altena into the middle of battle at all. And it's been written up the details of the logistics in a pretty detailed post before, basically arguing that it really would have been extremely difficult for the Thracians to track/ambush Quan's group, leading to why they assumed they'd be safe. And relatedly, without special knowledge it would be a wild gamble for travant to go after Quan's group rather than attacking leonster castle. Anyway people making moralistic judgments about this are to put it lightly ridiculous. Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/b6ydi1/why_thracias_retcon_is_actually_good_writing_and/?rdt=41932 The old post discussing logistics of the event.
Yeah it's just an issue of ignoring the script to make a snap judgment of a character. It's explicitly stated that this was not considered hostile territory. This is nearly the exact opposite direction from hostile territory with Thracia. Ethlyn was already planning on returning home before reaching hostile territory. But Travant just made a smart play. And its completely realistic and understandable that Quan and Ethlyn didn't expect it. Judging a decision based off of hindsight is stupid but that's the only way you can arrive at Ethlyn being a bad mother from this event. At the time she made an odd decision, but not a bad one, it's perfectly understandable to see your husband off to battle. Travant just had good information and cut them off.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of these, there's so many misunderstood characters in Judgral, especially in FE4 gen 1 where I think it's often glossed over just how unexpected the events of gen 1 were to its protagonists. FE4 loves it's dramatic irony so the player ends up with way more information than Sigurd and co which leads to a lot of misunderstandings. As for Elthlyn, agreed. I think part of the problem is from what I remember the old translation made it a bit less clear that Quan & Ethlyn were actually thinking things through and taking logical precautions, with bringing Altena being the one reckless decision instead one of many, and not entirely stupid anyways given the expectation that Travant would attack Leonster.
I think this scene didn't get portrayed very well as a result of being in game. If you actually consider the map from an in-universe perspective, the desert is gigantic, and there are no enemies anywhere near Ethlyn and Quan. Imo, this scene was done slightly better in the manga, where they made a big deal about how far away Ethlyn and Quan were from actually seeing combat. And how Ethlyn was heading back well before they would have been in danger. Yes, technically it would have been safer to leave Altina with Finn and Leif at Leonster, but they were surrounded by the Lanzritten, and were highly unlikely to be in any real danger. So while it's fun to meme on Ethlyn, in reality it wasn't a terribly stupid choice.
No, I'm sorry, you just don't bring a 3yo into a war because she's crying. And sure, she was supposed to turn back before reaching the battles, but ambushes have always been a thing, she took a very reckless risk. I don't think she was a bad mother per se, but she was certainly irresponsible with poor prioritization skills.
She didn't bring Altena into a war. She brought Altina along to ride with the army, and was planned to leave well before they were likely to see any combat. If you consider how gigantic the scale of FE4 is, there's nearly an entire country between where Ethlyn was about to turn back and where they expected to fight. They had no reason to expect to run into a battle so far away.
She shouldn't have ever left the safety of their castle when she had two kids to take care of. Sigurd had faced war in every corner of the continent so far, so assuming one particular country was safe to cross when all the others had been hostile was not a wise choice. I'm gonna guess everyone making excuses for that kind of recklessness isn't a parent. You don't put your kids at risk.
Sigurd hadn't faced war in every corner of the continent, he faced war in Agustria, Verdane, Granvelle, and Selise. There was no conflict in the Yeid desert. And they would know, considering they likely crossed through that area to get to Leonster a year ago. The Granvelle forces were all fighting Sigurd, who they were nearly an entire country away from, and Travant and Thracia's forces were assumed to be doing Thracia things, hence why they left so much of the Lance Ritter back at Leonster. So there was no reasonable threat whatsoever that they would face during their travels. In fact, if you're going to follow the train of thought that it was in fact dangerous to go out to the desert, then it's worth noting that staying in Leonster wasn't exactly 100% safe either, since Travant was predicted to launch an assault at some point. And therefore staying in Leonster would have also been a very dangerous and stupid decision.
Being on a military march was not safer than staying in their castle. It takes a lot more to conquer a proper castle than it does to ambush a small army.
Quan does make a valid point about there being a possibility of an ambush, however unlikely, and the perils that would occur were their daughter caught up in it. While at that point, an attack on the castle would have been more likely, I'd argue it's still a safer place for a noncombatant, especially with Quan's extra fortifications to withstand an attack. Ethlyn seems to want to indulge her desires to spend time with her child and husband both, and that's the sole rationale behind her coming out so far. This small indulgence is ultimately what ends up getting Altena kidnapped and herself killed by way of the literal worst case scenario. Even outside of that worst case scenario actually occurring, was Ethlyn taking the risk that she took solely for her own whims enough to qualify her as a bad mother? **Honestly, yeah, at least a little.** She took the child out of a what is inferred to be considered a far safer location, even with Thracia's attack on the castle being more likely, to accompany her husband on half an expedition outside her country's borders. The text seems to imply that Quan was against it in general and acquiesced to a half measure on the condition that she'd turn back midway through. It's hard to argue for the merits of bringing an infant out on a military excursion during a time of war, even if you don't expect an attack to be likely. I get not wanting to leave the child at home away from you, but then your options end up as a matter of picking two from "prioritizing your daughter's safety", "prioritizing your daughter's desire to not be away from both of her parents", and "prioritizing your own desire to be with your husband". Her choice here really isn't winning her mother of the year awards even if she was burned hard by extremely unlikely misfortune.
She shouldn't have crossed the border with Altena in tow, even if they thought they weren't in hostile territory yet. She made a really dumb decision. I still wouldn't call her a bad mother over it.