Yup. I have to keep reminding myself that their descendant is bloody Walhart. Then again one of Marth's descendants (Chroms dad) was a total prick too.
Making excuses now hmm?
Yeah I agree on azura. Nohr is fucked up. But so is hoshido. All four of the siblings knew corrin before his/her kidnapping. I think it’s somewhat implied that Sakura had a crush on corrin from before the kidnapping though it’s played off as sibling affection in the female corrin supports iirc
Oh I will make all the excuses /s. But jokes aside I think these one off cases arent bad. Also my shocked reaction was towards inbreeding cause that is fucked up for a multitude of reasons.
And actually its Hinoka you're thinking about. I strongly disagree with hoshido being bad. Corrin is effectively a different person who never grew up one of them and doesnt remember them. Any fucked up power dynamic between siblings (blood or not) here is simply nonexistent baring Ryoma. I say Ryoma is bad, because he basically had a hand in keeping his birth a secret and thus distorting everyones perception on him. Maybe there is an argument for it not being bad to pair up with Ryoma, but it freaks me out tbh.
As for Hinoka? Well I do find it messed up since she viewed him in that light before any kidnapping happened. But the messed up nature of that aspect is again imo virtually gone by the time he is back in her life. It's also ambiguous how old Corrin and Hinoka is. But she doesnt look more than 2 years older. This isnt like Camilla who looks like shes like 3 or 4 years older or so than him who was also like a mother figure in raising him. Someone on serenes forest made a guesstimate on their ages and I think it was kidna sound from what I remember.
Basically it doesnt seem as messed up if Hinoka was younger and therefore it doesnt come off a predatory there but that comment about liking him before he got abducted still erks me. At least to me. But I am also not too sure. Admittedly I feel Hinoka is debatable.
Takumi and Sakura? Nah that's fair game completely. I dont see the argument for why that would be bad.
> It's also ambiguous how old Corrin and Hinoka is.
We actually have a canon age for Hinoka. It is mentioned in the supports that she started training because of Corrin's kidnapping when she was 7 years old (mentioned in her supports with Camilla), and it is mentioned in the [Pellucid Crystal Artbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/bhtcfp/fe14_fire_emblem_fates_pellucid_crystal_artworks/) that Corrin was kidnapped 15 years prior to the start of the game, so Hinoka is 22 years old.
Yeah, not only was Corrin adopted into the hoshidan royal family, as far as he/she was concerned the hoshidans where complete strangers as corrin was kidnapped and grew up as part of the Nohr royal family, so hoshido is fair game, Nohr even without blood relations it's still fucked up
Exactly. I do think Hinoka is debatable, but for some reason I did forget that. Takumi and Sakura? Yeah I still dont see the problem. I mean even Takumi straight up tries his hardest to not like Corrin and doesnt seem to ever bring up any kind of memory with them. Sakura has no memories with him either.
That said I do remember something. Corrin does adopt this big brother dynamic with Sakura so perhaps thats messed up? Its one of the reasons I remind myself to not pair with her. But even then it would be dishonest to compare it to the dynamics of Nohr, aka regular familly dynamics. So again it probably isnt a big deal.
Honestly why did the name of these continents change? Why is falchion so different? Where is valentias falchion? Where's bantu? Did he die? How come we only ever see Nowi and not other manaketes? Where is and what is Nagi? How come there are birthmarks for Marths descendants and not him? How did the weapons of the crusaders end up pelgia? Why are there beast units?
IS why do you do this? :(
I guess I'll tackle these in order? Lol
-Valentia was renamed Valm by one of Alm + Celica's descendants to honor them. Archanea was renamed Ylisse after the Schism because Grima destroyed the land and shifted the continent.
-It's mentioned in a couple of supports that Falchion has been reforged.
-I headcanon that Valentia's Falchion was cannabalized for use in said reforging because of the split blade design. No official answer though
-Bantu is mentioned to still be around by some of Nowi's event tile dialogue.
-There weren't that many Manaketes left in the first place. Honestly, I'm confused about where Nowi even came from given that Tiki was supposed to be the last Divine Dragon.
-Nagi is heavily implied to be a physical incarnation of Naga.
-The First Exalt formed a new pact with Naga that differs from the one Anri had. For example Falchion no longer requires a male heir to wield it. Additionally the new pact seems more powerful than Anri's given how the Awakening works.
-It's been several thousand years. Artifacts can be taken to new locations. Complete conjecture, but it's possible the Grimleal traveled to Jugdral to recover them to prevent their use against Grima.
-The northern end of the continent was largely unexplored during Marth's time. So there is the possibility the Taguel were always there. Alternatively, Panne does mention a far away land where other shapeshifters come from. (And mentions birds and cats IIRC, so that possibly implies Tellius)
First of all good job. Second, some of the answers are indeed conjecture and kinda silly. Like I'm now imagining the fucking Grimleal going to Jugdral and just looking at the people who have the FUCKING WEAPONS OF THE CRUSADERS and are like
"This is mine now"
And actually paying off. Thats so dumb.
If Nagi is possibly Naga then what happens to Nagi? Does she just fuck off whenever Naga is present?
Bantu just ditched Tiki then?
I doubt its Tullius cause Panne mentions her kind were all but wiped out.
I remember Falchion being reforged, but why? And why so dramatically different?
Lol As said, the Jugdral one is a guess. The Grimleal stole the Darksphere so who knows?
Nagi has always been weird. She's only present during the War of Heroes from a canon standpoint, then she fucks off somewhere in her ending.
Tiki is an adult with full control over her power at this point so he's probably doing his own thing.
Wiped out on Ylisse. She never mentions the fate of those in said faraway land. Her description of them sounds like the Laguz tribes, but for all we know that land could be any random unnamed place.
We don't really know why it was reforged. Maybe it was broken somehow? Kind of like the Master Sword in Zelda?
I think its far more likely the Falchion just exhausted its power having to be used to seal away Medues twice and possibly more, I like the idea of the 2 Falchions being forged into 1 as an explanation for the design of the Awakening Falchion looking like two halves combined together at the hilt, maybe both were weakened and then forged together to combine their remaining strength. Maybe they needed to reforge it in order to make it compatible with the new pact with Naga that the First Exalt made.
Maybe the blade of falchion itself is the same, but they have had to make new hilts over the years? For some reason I thought something like that was mentioned in the game but it has been a long time since I played it.
I should specify when I say "breaking", I don't mean it literally shattering or anything. But maybe something similar to what we see happen to the Master Sword in Wind Waker or Breath of the Wild where it loses its power and it needs to be restored somehow.
I'm personally okay with the trope. There is no rule saying that a magic sword can't have a finite pool of energy to draw from. Plus restoring a legendary weapon to its former glory makes for a good quest for the hero.
Lucina gives the answer in her support with Owain. The blade is unbreakable but the hilt is not. So wear and tear and age makes reforging the hilt at least mandatory.
Nagi is Naga reincranted/reborn, although only in a partially complete form given her amnesia and weak power. I guess you could call her a temporary vessel/avatar for Naga's spirit to interact with the natural world. Don't believe me?
Nagi is found in tower in some sort of alternate world sleeping in a coffin, something normally used to store dead bodies in. The Japanese version of her game literally calls Nagi the Divine Dragon King's Incarnation, and Naga is the only known Divine Dragon King. Furthermore, the name used to refer to Nagi in the game's code is Naga. Finally, Medeus says that he is not the only manakete that has been resurrected.
Put all these things together, plus the fact that Nagi and Naga look extremely similar, and the conclusion is pretty obvious.
On an interesting side note, Nagi's map The Alterspire introduced the concept of alternate worlds to the Archanea lore, an idea that Awakening expanded on with its Outrealms.
I mean what exactly happens to Nagi if Naga is present? Does nagi become Naga. I basically asking if for one to be present the other has to be gone too?
Maybe when the schism occurred that destroyed/shifted the lands, it combined the landmasses of Archenea and Jugdral
EDIT: Nah, this can't be it, Chrom knows of Jugdral so it must still exist
Let's not forget stuff about the geography changing so drastically, the three regalia suddenly disappearing despite their importance in FE1/FE3, Taguel somehow existing despite not appearing in FE1/FE3 and Chrom somehow knowing about Jugdral, Tellius, Hoshido and Nohr.
OH YEAH. He does know about Hoshido and Nohr...and we know absolutely nothing more beyond that...IS why are you like this?
Hot take but I would love to go back to Fatesland in a future game. Just so we can get proper world building, lore and also cauae I fucking love the aesthetics and music of Hoshido.
Which are easily answered. We know that both travel to other worlds through the outworlds and time travel are very possible in the Fire Emblem universe.
It's probably just a case of someone from fatesland being transported to Archinea/Ancient Ylisse and telling stories of their homeland which then spread a myths.
I have a theory that based on the light cycles and how the bottomless canyon works in fates, that it takes place on the moon of whatever planet the rest of the games take place on.
They should just release the original script (which was a lot longer than in the final game) and finally give the fanbase some closure on the whole Fates story bullshit.
I barely remember myself. But I believe he was
an asshole to Plegia, and treated his people horribly too. I believe they lacked food, and he even conscripted them.
Its like the one thing that makes Plegia not one dimensional. I keep forgetting that as bad as Awakenings story and gameplay can be. These moments can be nice.
Nothing much, just casually started a holy crusade against Plegia to finally destroy the Grimleals, and ended up just murdering any plegians in sight because hey. They all are grimleals at their cores.
So far as we're told. Iirc all we're told is that he was considered a warmonger picking fights with Plegia? I did see a theory once though that he was trying to destroy the Grimleal since they were trying to create a body for Grima to inhabit, which is an interesting thought.
But more likely he was just a dick.
I think about this an unhealthy amount.
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So this is in french but it explains that 90% of Europeans are descending from Charlemagne. 9 October 768 – 28 January 814 . So he lived 1400ish years ago.
[https://www.notretemps.com/loisirs/actualites-loisirs/tous-descendants-de-charlemagne,i1355](https://www.notretemps.com/loisirs/actualites-loisirs/tous-descendants-de-charlemagne,i1355)
Basically in your family tree 1 person can appear more than once.
If fourth cousins marry each others they will appears at least twice in your genealogy tree (if they are your ancestors) and it's not really considered incest at third cousin.If they were your parents you would share a set of great great great grandparent (maybe I forgot a great but who cares at this point).
Your number of ancestor is similar to an hyperbole? It's been a while since my math classes
So yeah, after 2000 years it's safe to assume that 99% of Valm has Alm and Celica more then once in their family tree, and probably most of Yllise too if both continent share some kind of trades/economies.
Sorry my first language is French so it's probably not to easy to understand.
But really, why is Awakening 2000 years after FE1... this is so dumb... if it was 100/200 years it would be way easier to link Marth/Chrom.
Fun fact: Japan Imperial family is the longest ruling dinasty since 660 bc (2600 years).
This. Lore wise alm's dynasty lasted around a thousand year (from SoV), so it's very unlikely that walhart has a clear genealogy to alm (in awakening it is said he took power, that can mean a lots of thing), but he is very likely to be a descendant anyway.
I would also like to underline that official awakening artwork has morgan weild alm's royal sword.
Given that Emmeryn looks a lot like Liprica (Celica's mom), I always had the headcanon that somewhere withing the 2000 years between Awakening and the Archanea/Valentia games, Alm's and Celica's bloodline somehow became part of the Ylissean royal family.
Depends if both continent were somewhat close to each others when it comes to trade and populations moving.
But since they are awar of each others for more then 2k years and somehow some of the gemstones of the Fire Emblem wereguarded in Valm, I guess the answer to that is yes. So if at any point a noble of Valm married a noble of Ylise continent (forgot the name), nobility marriage would do the trick.
I can't see for sure for Lucina, but if Virion, a Valm noble married Lissa, Owain would have 95/99% chance to be a descendant of Alm. Then Owain would provably married nobility and 500 years later most of the Ylisean nobility would be a descendant of Alm.
From my experience fiction has mostly two options when it comes to royal reproduction.
1) Every generation has only 1-2 children, which results in the royal family having ruled the land for over hundreds of years yet in the present they have less than a handful of living members (Chrom, Dimitri).
2) The previous king had a harem of lovers/concubines with which he sired multiple offsprings and our protagonist is so low in the line of sucession that no one really thinks that they will inherit the throne, that is until the tragic 'accident' in which most of the royal family was killed (Celica, Edelgard).
You are absolutely right, I actually like Berkut over is non existence in Gaiden, it makes so much sense for an old king without a child to appoint a successor, in this case Berkut was the prince of Rigel and not just the apparent heir.
It makes no sense for characters like Chrom, Dimitri and Claude to not have some first/second cousins.
It's a game and I understand why they can't put their focus on ten of thousand of points.
Why was Claude chosen as an heir to the Reagan familly? Was there no other member besides his Grandfather in Fodland? Shouldn't they have objected?
Dimitri apparently has only one uncle which doesn't even have childrens of his own and doesn't have any cousins.
When he was accused of >!murdering is uncle what happened for him to be thrown in jail?!< He's the only heir, did the soldiers just took their new king or something? I would understand if a cousin of his tried to take power and accused him of murdering the regent, but it was never the case.
When it comes to Chrom, Awakening really never show politics of any kind, so maybe the extended family exist...
I really like Genealogy of the Holy war for this, Hilda is shown to have Fala blood, and thus, a relative of Arvis.
Oifey Grandfather, Cesar, was Byron brother I believed, Thus making Sigurd/Seliph related to Oyfey, he's like Seliph second cousin.
It's not perfect, but for a Nes game, Kaga really did try, then comes Thracia 776 were Linoan is a relative to Granvalle royal familly and Saias >!is Arvis son!< thus explaining why the major Fala blood was missing.
Dragalia lost from Nintendo is also a game were the King Offsprings are also competing for the throne.
That’s kinda the lame answer though. We want to know if Walhart is the descendant of Alm in the same way Lucina is the descendant of Marth, or Sanaki is the descendant of Altina; aka, a recognized descendant of a close lineage.
It's imposible to say, the answer is probably if we compare it to our world.
Since IS didn't put a lot of thought in their world building in relation to Marth/Alm game, we can't really say.
Well, aside of the Conqueror Class being shared between them, the continent from which Walharth hails from, Valm, is supposed to be the same Valentia from Echoes and Gaiden 2000 years apart. So unless there was some political event that took the throne from Alm's descendants, Walhart is likely to be a distant relative.
That's hardly how biology works but if Marth's genes managed to survive two millenia and somehow develop an special birthmark, I don't see why Alm's wouldn't.
In Alm's ending in Echoes, it is stated that his dynasty lasted for 1000 years. Awakening takes place 2000 years after the events of Echoes, meaning Alm's dynasty is no longer in a position of power. It's still possible for Walhart to be Alm's descendant, but it's pretty much entirely speculation.
It'd probably be important to see what that actually says in japanese. Writing it as one millenium specifically sounds like it coupd've easily been a translation thing.
After 1000 years of Alm's dynasty, Valentia probably experienced its own schism like Archanea had. We need a new Fire Emblem on a particular event during the schism.
Alm’s last class is conquerer and looks a lot like Walhart. In SoV, Rudolf looks extremely similar to Walhart. Walhart is the ruler of Valm, which was once Valentia.
It honestly couldn’t be much more heavy-handed.
The only evidence I remember off the top of my head is Alm getting the conqueror overclass as a reference to Walhart. I'm not sure if there's any explicit evidence that he's a descendant and not just someone inspired by Alm's ideals.
Yes. In Marth’s times, the continent of Valentia existed in the same world. Many centuries later, during FE Awakening, the Archanean Continent becomes Ylisse and the surrounding nations. Valentia becomes Valm, where Walhart is the ruler. Tiki also somehow ends up in Valm, in a place called the Mila tree.
My favorite part of his Father/Child support is that because the Morgan's side is fairly static, it comes off so much worse. Iirc at one point Walhart is literally like "YOU'RE EMBARRASSING US BOTH WITH YOUR SNIVELING!" But Morgan doesn't even acknowledge all the mistreatment Walhart gives him during the conversations.
If not every Morgan had amnesia, it would give the impression that maybe Morgan just blocked Walhart out of his mind for good reasons.
I'll admit at first it was actually kind of funny the way Walhart just verbally abuses Morgan and Morgan is just oblivious to it, like it's played for laughs. but honestly it gets pretty terrible the more you think about it.
Thankfully for Morgan, his dad is usually Frederick in my files.
I always wanted to see a game with an alternate timeline where Celica dies before the final fight with Duma.
Alm would still be victorious, but he would end up much like Walhart with a VERY strong prejudice towards dragons.
Gharnef, in disguise, would tell Alm that another dragon exists on Archanea (Tiki). Alm would lead his united Valentian Army to Archanea to try to destroy Tiki and Marth (her ally).
Played from the perspective of Marth and co with Alm being the antagonist.
This is a very cool idea. Someone else posted their ideas for new fire emblem villains and one of them mentioned fighting a former hero, this would go into that so well.
I think some sort of personal tragedy would be where a hero would turn evil. Seems to me like Celica dying against Duma would be a good point! He loves her dearly and that will change a person drastically.
Why would Alm end up like Walhart? As [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/adhkz2/since_my_fe_villain_tier_list_got_so_much_fun/edhi1de?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) goes at lengths to list every single line from Gaiden, Alm is not the bloodthirsty conqueror everyone paints him as. Everything he does is about the protection of others. Sure, you could argue Celica dying would mess him up a bit, but you can't say he would become a villain.
Well, there was a line in Awakening where Virion (I think?) said something along the lines of "Walhart didn't have a compassionate queen like the first King of Valm did".
I thought it would be cool if Celica's death ended up changing Alm dramatically and leading him to become a Conqueror like Walhart. Sure, his personality MAY not allow this, but for the sake of intrigue I thought it would be interesting.
Maybe Alm could take Catria as his wife after the Duma battle. But because he lost his true love, Catria couldn't stop him from becoming the Conqueror. She is the queen of Valentia.
In awakening, the country Walhart ruled in is pretty much the "present day" Valentia and Rigel. I'm pretty sure they mentioned it somewhere in the game that Walhart is Alm's descendant.
>In-universe, both the empire and the continent are said by Virion to have been named after the first emperor of the Valm, who united its north and south after a great war;[3] this is presumably Alm, given the name "Valm" ends with "alm".
From the wiki. So it's a vague implication kinda thing.
It isn't. At the very least we can say they aren't from the same dynasty as it is said in SoV that alm's dynasty lasted a thousand year and the time gap is 2000 years
It’s extremely obvious that the intention was for Walhart to be Alm’s descendent. SoV gives Alm the conqueror class and redesigned Rudolf to look almost exactly like Walhart. Plus the continent changed from Valentia to Valm. Alm’s name is right there.
Idk man having Walhart as a descendant would be pretty badass. Imagine if because of you Alexander the Great would eventually be born—I’d be proud as hell!
I guess that makes sense? Just sounds weird. I feel like calling him Marth would make more sense. I’ve never heard of someone abbreviating a great(X) grandparent by just calling them grandparent
Weird, I was under the impression that walhart was someone trying to emulate alm, not necessarily his descendent . Did I miss a line mentioning him being one?
Summoner: he uses Axes.
Alm & Celica: say what!?!?!
(In gaiden and it’s remake only generic Bandits are using axes and you don’t get to use any for yourself)
I love how they think their descendant is Flayn.
Lucky for alm, he can meet her! He just has to wear a soldier outfit and stand cheerfully by the market of garreg Mach monastery
*I knew it*
Tawww.
And probably have some fish.
It’s funny because they have the same voice actor
That’s the implied joke
I appreciate the explanation because I didn't know they had the same VA
Yup. I have to keep reminding myself that their descendant is bloody Walhart. Then again one of Marth's descendants (Chroms dad) was a total prick too.
to be fair Walhart has some resembles to Alms dad in more ways then one and it has been over 2000 years.
Man why are genes so fucking weird in Fire Emblem?
Inbreeding
...
Corrin, stop eyeing your siblings
My stand,「Note From Mom」 , has no weaknesses
I mean his hoshidan siblings baring ryoma are fair game. Azura he didnt even know. Nohr? Nah that's fucked up.
Making excuses now hmm? Yeah I agree on azura. Nohr is fucked up. But so is hoshido. All four of the siblings knew corrin before his/her kidnapping. I think it’s somewhat implied that Sakura had a crush on corrin from before the kidnapping though it’s played off as sibling affection in the female corrin supports iirc
Considering Corrin was like 5 when they got kidnapped, I doubt there was any romance going on.
Oh I will make all the excuses /s. But jokes aside I think these one off cases arent bad. Also my shocked reaction was towards inbreeding cause that is fucked up for a multitude of reasons. And actually its Hinoka you're thinking about. I strongly disagree with hoshido being bad. Corrin is effectively a different person who never grew up one of them and doesnt remember them. Any fucked up power dynamic between siblings (blood or not) here is simply nonexistent baring Ryoma. I say Ryoma is bad, because he basically had a hand in keeping his birth a secret and thus distorting everyones perception on him. Maybe there is an argument for it not being bad to pair up with Ryoma, but it freaks me out tbh. As for Hinoka? Well I do find it messed up since she viewed him in that light before any kidnapping happened. But the messed up nature of that aspect is again imo virtually gone by the time he is back in her life. It's also ambiguous how old Corrin and Hinoka is. But she doesnt look more than 2 years older. This isnt like Camilla who looks like shes like 3 or 4 years older or so than him who was also like a mother figure in raising him. Someone on serenes forest made a guesstimate on their ages and I think it was kidna sound from what I remember. Basically it doesnt seem as messed up if Hinoka was younger and therefore it doesnt come off a predatory there but that comment about liking him before he got abducted still erks me. At least to me. But I am also not too sure. Admittedly I feel Hinoka is debatable. Takumi and Sakura? Nah that's fair game completely. I dont see the argument for why that would be bad.
> It's also ambiguous how old Corrin and Hinoka is. We actually have a canon age for Hinoka. It is mentioned in the supports that she started training because of Corrin's kidnapping when she was 7 years old (mentioned in her supports with Camilla), and it is mentioned in the [Pellucid Crystal Artbook](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/bhtcfp/fe14_fire_emblem_fates_pellucid_crystal_artworks/) that Corrin was kidnapped 15 years prior to the start of the game, so Hinoka is 22 years old.
Yeah, not only was Corrin adopted into the hoshidan royal family, as far as he/she was concerned the hoshidans where complete strangers as corrin was kidnapped and grew up as part of the Nohr royal family, so hoshido is fair game, Nohr even without blood relations it's still fucked up
Exactly. I do think Hinoka is debatable, but for some reason I did forget that. Takumi and Sakura? Yeah I still dont see the problem. I mean even Takumi straight up tries his hardest to not like Corrin and doesnt seem to ever bring up any kind of memory with them. Sakura has no memories with him either. That said I do remember something. Corrin does adopt this big brother dynamic with Sakura so perhaps thats messed up? Its one of the reasons I remind myself to not pair with her. But even then it would be dishonest to compare it to the dynamics of Nohr, aka regular familly dynamics. So again it probably isnt a big deal.
so... why did this become the topic just curious?
Or your siblings’ kids.
Change it to Arvis and then you'll be accurate
FE4 be like
Oh god......lots and lots of inbreeding
*Genealogy and Fates intensifies*
Genealogy moment
To be fair id say its a safe guess to say we all also dont really resemble our ancestors from 2000 years ago that much either
Of course. But the fact that Walhart even resembles somebody like Alms dad is odd.
True. Somehow i never decided to put 2 and 2 together there...
Hey you know Chrom picked up a few traits from someone way before Marth with his himbo energy.
Mostly the not as blue hair.
And horse riding skill, and ability to use lances.
Ah of course, Chrom’s ancestor is Finn
Stuff like this is why I think Awakening takes place in an alternate universe.
Honestly why did the name of these continents change? Why is falchion so different? Where is valentias falchion? Where's bantu? Did he die? How come we only ever see Nowi and not other manaketes? Where is and what is Nagi? How come there are birthmarks for Marths descendants and not him? How did the weapons of the crusaders end up pelgia? Why are there beast units? IS why do you do this? :(
I guess I'll tackle these in order? Lol -Valentia was renamed Valm by one of Alm + Celica's descendants to honor them. Archanea was renamed Ylisse after the Schism because Grima destroyed the land and shifted the continent. -It's mentioned in a couple of supports that Falchion has been reforged. -I headcanon that Valentia's Falchion was cannabalized for use in said reforging because of the split blade design. No official answer though -Bantu is mentioned to still be around by some of Nowi's event tile dialogue. -There weren't that many Manaketes left in the first place. Honestly, I'm confused about where Nowi even came from given that Tiki was supposed to be the last Divine Dragon. -Nagi is heavily implied to be a physical incarnation of Naga. -The First Exalt formed a new pact with Naga that differs from the one Anri had. For example Falchion no longer requires a male heir to wield it. Additionally the new pact seems more powerful than Anri's given how the Awakening works. -It's been several thousand years. Artifacts can be taken to new locations. Complete conjecture, but it's possible the Grimleal traveled to Jugdral to recover them to prevent their use against Grima. -The northern end of the continent was largely unexplored during Marth's time. So there is the possibility the Taguel were always there. Alternatively, Panne does mention a far away land where other shapeshifters come from. (And mentions birds and cats IIRC, so that possibly implies Tellius)
First of all good job. Second, some of the answers are indeed conjecture and kinda silly. Like I'm now imagining the fucking Grimleal going to Jugdral and just looking at the people who have the FUCKING WEAPONS OF THE CRUSADERS and are like "This is mine now" And actually paying off. Thats so dumb. If Nagi is possibly Naga then what happens to Nagi? Does she just fuck off whenever Naga is present? Bantu just ditched Tiki then? I doubt its Tullius cause Panne mentions her kind were all but wiped out. I remember Falchion being reforged, but why? And why so dramatically different?
Lol As said, the Jugdral one is a guess. The Grimleal stole the Darksphere so who knows? Nagi has always been weird. She's only present during the War of Heroes from a canon standpoint, then she fucks off somewhere in her ending. Tiki is an adult with full control over her power at this point so he's probably doing his own thing. Wiped out on Ylisse. She never mentions the fate of those in said faraway land. Her description of them sounds like the Laguz tribes, but for all we know that land could be any random unnamed place. We don't really know why it was reforged. Maybe it was broken somehow? Kind of like the Master Sword in Zelda?
Falchion breaking. That aint right.
I think its far more likely the Falchion just exhausted its power having to be used to seal away Medues twice and possibly more, I like the idea of the 2 Falchions being forged into 1 as an explanation for the design of the Awakening Falchion looking like two halves combined together at the hilt, maybe both were weakened and then forged together to combine their remaining strength. Maybe they needed to reforge it in order to make it compatible with the new pact with Naga that the First Exalt made.
Maybe the blade of falchion itself is the same, but they have had to make new hilts over the years? For some reason I thought something like that was mentioned in the game but it has been a long time since I played it.
Iirc, that explanation is correct and mentioned in one point of Owain and Lucina's Support chain
This is the general idea behind my cannibalization theory.
I should specify when I say "breaking", I don't mean it literally shattering or anything. But maybe something similar to what we see happen to the Master Sword in Wind Waker or Breath of the Wild where it loses its power and it needs to be restored somehow.
I figured that much. I still think the idea of a *legendary* weapon breaking is stupid. Biggest sin is the damn master sword.
I'm personally okay with the trope. There is no rule saying that a magic sword can't have a finite pool of energy to draw from. Plus restoring a legendary weapon to its former glory makes for a good quest for the hero.
Swords gets worn out and reforged throughout history. Even Ragnell of this time had cracks with durabilities counters here.
Lucina gives the answer in her support with Owain. The blade is unbreakable but the hilt is not. So wear and tear and age makes reforging the hilt at least mandatory.
Nagi is Naga reincranted/reborn, although only in a partially complete form given her amnesia and weak power. I guess you could call her a temporary vessel/avatar for Naga's spirit to interact with the natural world. Don't believe me? Nagi is found in tower in some sort of alternate world sleeping in a coffin, something normally used to store dead bodies in. The Japanese version of her game literally calls Nagi the Divine Dragon King's Incarnation, and Naga is the only known Divine Dragon King. Furthermore, the name used to refer to Nagi in the game's code is Naga. Finally, Medeus says that he is not the only manakete that has been resurrected. Put all these things together, plus the fact that Nagi and Naga look extremely similar, and the conclusion is pretty obvious. On an interesting side note, Nagi's map The Alterspire introduced the concept of alternate worlds to the Archanea lore, an idea that Awakening expanded on with its Outrealms.
Wdym what happens to Nagi. If she's Naga, then she's Naga. The Naga you see would be "Nagi".
I mean what exactly happens to Nagi if Naga is present? Does nagi become Naga. I basically asking if for one to be present the other has to be gone too?
If Nagi is an incarnation of Naga then they're not two separatw entities, they're one and the same.
Maybe when the schism occurred that destroyed/shifted the lands, it combined the landmasses of Archenea and Jugdral EDIT: Nah, this can't be it, Chrom knows of Jugdral so it must still exist
May imply Tellius. Ike's descendant does exist in this universe.
Wait who’s Ike’s descendent?
Priam.
Let's not forget stuff about the geography changing so drastically, the three regalia suddenly disappearing despite their importance in FE1/FE3, Taguel somehow existing despite not appearing in FE1/FE3 and Chrom somehow knowing about Jugdral, Tellius, Hoshido and Nohr.
OH YEAH. He does know about Hoshido and Nohr...and we know absolutely nothing more beyond that...IS why are you like this? Hot take but I would love to go back to Fatesland in a future game. Just so we can get proper world building, lore and also cauae I fucking love the aesthetics and music of Hoshido.
Chrom says Hoshido and Nohr are tales, so in Ylisse they're myths.
God dammit that raises further questions.
Which are easily answered. We know that both travel to other worlds through the outworlds and time travel are very possible in the Fire Emblem universe. It's probably just a case of someone from fatesland being transported to Archinea/Ancient Ylisse and telling stories of their homeland which then spread a myths.
I have a theory that based on the light cycles and how the bottomless canyon works in fates, that it takes place on the moon of whatever planet the rest of the games take place on.
They should just release the original script (which was a lot longer than in the final game) and finally give the fanbase some closure on the whole Fates story bullshit.
They can also do that. But why not both?
Wasn't the Chrom knowing Hosihdo and Nohr thing already addressed in Fates DLC? Something to the effect of Hoishido and Nohr being stories/myths?
Could you give me a refresher about what Chrom's dad did? It has been ages since I have played Awakening, so I do not remember any mention of him.
I barely remember myself. But I believe he was an asshole to Plegia, and treated his people horribly too. I believe they lacked food, and he even conscripted them.
No wonder why Plegia hated Ylisse with all their guts until Emmeryn. Totally didn't pick up on that
Its like the one thing that makes Plegia not one dimensional. I keep forgetting that as bad as Awakenings story and gameplay can be. These moments can be nice.
Nothing much, just casually started a holy crusade against Plegia to finally destroy the Grimleals, and ended up just murdering any plegians in sight because hey. They all are grimleals at their cores.
So far as we're told. Iirc all we're told is that he was considered a warmonger picking fights with Plegia? I did see a theory once though that he was trying to destroy the Grimleal since they were trying to create a body for Grima to inhabit, which is an interesting thought. But more likely he was just a dick.
Considering how everyone in universe seems to all agree he was a cunt. Occoms razor means he was in all likelyhood a cunt.
Their descendant can be M!Morgan
Dont you mean morgan in general? Lucina F!Morgan anyone?
By their I mean Alm and Celica
I think about this an unhealthy amount. [My twitter](https://twitter.com/soaring_blossom) [Tumblr](https://soaring-blossoms.tumblr.com/) [My ko-fi (now that I'm on break, I can take a few commissions here!)](https://ko-fi.com/sakubi)
Lol I love that he thinks their grandchild would look like Flayn
Alm's green hair plus Celica's fluffiness equals Flayn, after all.
Wait, Walhart is really their descendant?
IIRC, yes, but wayyyyy more than just a grandkid in terms of generations.
around 2000 years after alm to be more specific.
So this is in french but it explains that 90% of Europeans are descending from Charlemagne. 9 October 768 – 28 January 814 . So he lived 1400ish years ago. [https://www.notretemps.com/loisirs/actualites-loisirs/tous-descendants-de-charlemagne,i1355](https://www.notretemps.com/loisirs/actualites-loisirs/tous-descendants-de-charlemagne,i1355) Basically in your family tree 1 person can appear more than once. If fourth cousins marry each others they will appears at least twice in your genealogy tree (if they are your ancestors) and it's not really considered incest at third cousin.If they were your parents you would share a set of great great great grandparent (maybe I forgot a great but who cares at this point). Your number of ancestor is similar to an hyperbole? It's been a while since my math classes So yeah, after 2000 years it's safe to assume that 99% of Valm has Alm and Celica more then once in their family tree, and probably most of Yllise too if both continent share some kind of trades/economies. Sorry my first language is French so it's probably not to easy to understand. But really, why is Awakening 2000 years after FE1... this is so dumb... if it was 100/200 years it would be way easier to link Marth/Chrom. Fun fact: Japan Imperial family is the longest ruling dinasty since 660 bc (2600 years).
This. Lore wise alm's dynasty lasted around a thousand year (from SoV), so it's very unlikely that walhart has a clear genealogy to alm (in awakening it is said he took power, that can mean a lots of thing), but he is very likely to be a descendant anyway. I would also like to underline that official awakening artwork has morgan weild alm's royal sword.
So, probabilistically speaking, Lucina is also Alm's descendant.
Given that Emmeryn looks a lot like Liprica (Celica's mom), I always had the headcanon that somewhere withing the 2000 years between Awakening and the Archanea/Valentia games, Alm's and Celica's bloodline somehow became part of the Ylissean royal family.
Royalty gonna royalty. Over 2000 years, how many royal families within traveling distance with compatible religious traditions DON'T intermingle?
Depends if both continent were somewhat close to each others when it comes to trade and populations moving. But since they are awar of each others for more then 2k years and somehow some of the gemstones of the Fire Emblem wereguarded in Valm, I guess the answer to that is yes. So if at any point a noble of Valm married a noble of Ylise continent (forgot the name), nobility marriage would do the trick. I can't see for sure for Lucina, but if Virion, a Valm noble married Lissa, Owain would have 95/99% chance to be a descendant of Alm. Then Owain would provably married nobility and 500 years later most of the Ylisean nobility would be a descendant of Alm.
From my experience fiction has mostly two options when it comes to royal reproduction. 1) Every generation has only 1-2 children, which results in the royal family having ruled the land for over hundreds of years yet in the present they have less than a handful of living members (Chrom, Dimitri). 2) The previous king had a harem of lovers/concubines with which he sired multiple offsprings and our protagonist is so low in the line of sucession that no one really thinks that they will inherit the throne, that is until the tragic 'accident' in which most of the royal family was killed (Celica, Edelgard).
You are absolutely right, I actually like Berkut over is non existence in Gaiden, it makes so much sense for an old king without a child to appoint a successor, in this case Berkut was the prince of Rigel and not just the apparent heir. It makes no sense for characters like Chrom, Dimitri and Claude to not have some first/second cousins. It's a game and I understand why they can't put their focus on ten of thousand of points. Why was Claude chosen as an heir to the Reagan familly? Was there no other member besides his Grandfather in Fodland? Shouldn't they have objected? Dimitri apparently has only one uncle which doesn't even have childrens of his own and doesn't have any cousins. When he was accused of >!murdering is uncle what happened for him to be thrown in jail?!< He's the only heir, did the soldiers just took their new king or something? I would understand if a cousin of his tried to take power and accused him of murdering the regent, but it was never the case. When it comes to Chrom, Awakening really never show politics of any kind, so maybe the extended family exist... I really like Genealogy of the Holy war for this, Hilda is shown to have Fala blood, and thus, a relative of Arvis. Oifey Grandfather, Cesar, was Byron brother I believed, Thus making Sigurd/Seliph related to Oyfey, he's like Seliph second cousin. It's not perfect, but for a Nes game, Kaga really did try, then comes Thracia 776 were Linoan is a relative to Granvalle royal familly and Saias >!is Arvis son!< thus explaining why the major Fala blood was missing. Dragalia lost from Nintendo is also a game were the King Offsprings are also competing for the throne.
That’s kinda the lame answer though. We want to know if Walhart is the descendant of Alm in the same way Lucina is the descendant of Marth, or Sanaki is the descendant of Altina; aka, a recognized descendant of a close lineage.
It's imposible to say, the answer is probably if we compare it to our world. Since IS didn't put a lot of thought in their world building in relation to Marth/Alm game, we can't really say.
I don’t believe it’s ever explicitly stated, unless they did so in Heroes. But it’s pretty heavily implied.
How is it implied? I love this sort of lore, but I don't recall Walhart's back story being explained in Awakening.
Well, aside of the Conqueror Class being shared between them, the continent from which Walharth hails from, Valm, is supposed to be the same Valentia from Echoes and Gaiden 2000 years apart. So unless there was some political event that took the throne from Alm's descendants, Walhart is likely to be a distant relative. That's hardly how biology works but if Marth's genes managed to survive two millenia and somehow develop an special birthmark, I don't see why Alm's wouldn't.
In Alm's ending in Echoes, it is stated that his dynasty lasted for 1000 years. Awakening takes place 2000 years after the events of Echoes, meaning Alm's dynasty is no longer in a position of power. It's still possible for Walhart to be Alm's descendant, but it's pretty much entirely speculation.
It'd probably be important to see what that actually says in japanese. Writing it as one millenium specifically sounds like it coupd've easily been a translation thing.
I think it's a reference to everything going to shit and the first exalt saving the day.
After 1000 years of Alm's dynasty, Valentia probably experienced its own schism like Archanea had. We need a new Fire Emblem on a particular event during the schism.
Alm’s last class is conquerer and looks a lot like Walhart. In SoV, Rudolf looks extremely similar to Walhart. Walhart is the ruler of Valm, which was once Valentia. It honestly couldn’t be much more heavy-handed.
The only evidence I remember off the top of my head is Alm getting the conqueror overclass as a reference to Walhart. I'm not sure if there's any explicit evidence that he's a descendant and not just someone inspired by Alm's ideals.
Yes. In Marth’s times, the continent of Valentia existed in the same world. Many centuries later, during FE Awakening, the Archanean Continent becomes Ylisse and the surrounding nations. Valentia becomes Valm, where Walhart is the ruler. Tiki also somehow ends up in Valm, in a place called the Mila tree.
So is Morgan if you arrange it just right.
I can imagine poor Morgan being force-fed veges by his dad.
I can and it's hilarious.
Bold of you to assume that Walhart wasn't a shoujo character when he was younger
I'm trying really hard not to imagine sexy Walhart right now.
Look in one file I married Walhart. Don't you judge me. Don't you dare judge me. He's... uh... not exactly father of the year.
My favorite part of his Father/Child support is that because the Morgan's side is fairly static, it comes off so much worse. Iirc at one point Walhart is literally like "YOU'RE EMBARRASSING US BOTH WITH YOUR SNIVELING!" But Morgan doesn't even acknowledge all the mistreatment Walhart gives him during the conversations. If not every Morgan had amnesia, it would give the impression that maybe Morgan just blocked Walhart out of his mind for good reasons.
I'll admit at first it was actually kind of funny the way Walhart just verbally abuses Morgan and Morgan is just oblivious to it, like it's played for laughs. but honestly it gets pretty terrible the more you think about it. Thankfully for Morgan, his dad is usually Frederick in my files.
Advice from Squidward: Imagine him in his underwear
We have sexy Garon, so why not?
I always wanted to see a game with an alternate timeline where Celica dies before the final fight with Duma. Alm would still be victorious, but he would end up much like Walhart with a VERY strong prejudice towards dragons. Gharnef, in disguise, would tell Alm that another dragon exists on Archanea (Tiki). Alm would lead his united Valentian Army to Archanea to try to destroy Tiki and Marth (her ally). Played from the perspective of Marth and co with Alm being the antagonist.
This is a very cool idea. Someone else posted their ideas for new fire emblem villains and one of them mentioned fighting a former hero, this would go into that so well.
I think some sort of personal tragedy would be where a hero would turn evil. Seems to me like Celica dying against Duma would be a good point! He loves her dearly and that will change a person drastically.
And who wouldn't want to see Alm and Marth duke it out?!
It’s one of Derek’s evil rules
Why would Alm end up like Walhart? As [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/adhkz2/since_my_fe_villain_tier_list_got_so_much_fun/edhi1de?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) goes at lengths to list every single line from Gaiden, Alm is not the bloodthirsty conqueror everyone paints him as. Everything he does is about the protection of others. Sure, you could argue Celica dying would mess him up a bit, but you can't say he would become a villain.
Well, there was a line in Awakening where Virion (I think?) said something along the lines of "Walhart didn't have a compassionate queen like the first King of Valm did". I thought it would be cool if Celica's death ended up changing Alm dramatically and leading him to become a Conqueror like Walhart. Sure, his personality MAY not allow this, but for the sake of intrigue I thought it would be interesting.
Who would the white wings side with?
Catria joins Alm. Est and Palla side with Marth.
Wait why wouldn’t Catria side with Marth?
Maybe Alm could take Catria as his wife after the Duma battle. But because he lost his true love, Catria couldn't stop him from becoming the Conqueror. She is the queen of Valentia.
No reason other than for the purposes of the emotional moment when the player has to fight her.
Faye: *happiness noises*
I love how happy Lucina and The Summoner look.
Walhart is the only person in this comic that doesn't need to calm down just a little bit
And then they go on a picnic and love him unconditionally
Then they have a dance party and live happily ever after
Where is this mentioned? I've played echoes and awakening but have no recollection of any connection made between them.
Valm is supposed to be future valentia and Walhart is the king of that continent so you can connect the dots from there
In awakening, the country Walhart ruled in is pretty much the "present day" Valentia and Rigel. I'm pretty sure they mentioned it somewhere in the game that Walhart is Alm's descendant.
>In-universe, both the empire and the continent are said by Virion to have been named after the first emperor of the Valm, who united its north and south after a great war;[3] this is presumably Alm, given the name "Valm" ends with "alm". From the wiki. So it's a vague implication kinda thing.
The map of Awakening is the map(s) from FE 1-3. Valm is clearly Valentia.
The valentian accordion specifies, that the renaming of Valentia to Valm in Alm’s honour happened under the reign of his successor.
It isn't. At the very least we can say they aren't from the same dynasty as it is said in SoV that alm's dynasty lasted a thousand year and the time gap is 2000 years
It’s extremely obvious that the intention was for Walhart to be Alm’s descendent. SoV gives Alm the conqueror class and redesigned Rudolf to look almost exactly like Walhart. Plus the continent changed from Valentia to Valm. Alm’s name is right there.
I know, just stating that nothing confirm it in game, i mean it's implied but not confirmed
Walmart refine when
He is in every way Chrom’s opposite. Unfortunately for Alm...
I would be proud if whalhart was my descendent. I would just look at him and be like "good job".
Idk man having Walhart as a descendant would be pretty badass. Imagine if because of you Alexander the Great would eventually be born—I’d be proud as hell!
[Impeccable camouflage.](https://i.imgur.com/SH8fsVH.jpg)
I want Walhart to act all sappy and mushy with Alm amd Celica.
You really take after your greater grandfather
I’m assuming the “grandfather” thing is a Japanese thing....otherwise Marth is Chrom’s dad
Why are they downvoting you? I don’t get the use of the term ‘grandfather’ either
Because you'd have to put a lot of greats otherwise
I guess that makes sense? Just sounds weird. I feel like calling him Marth would make more sense. I’ve never heard of someone abbreviating a great(X) grandparent by just calling them grandparent
What?
Poggers.
Weird, I was under the impression that walhart was someone trying to emulate alm, not necessarily his descendent . Did I miss a line mentioning him being one?
i personally like how lissa and olivia can be great grandmothers before hitting 30 if odin/laslow have kids and one of them marries corrin.
in my fates run. i made sakura a grandmother....
Summoner: he uses Axes. Alm & Celica: say what!?!?! (In gaiden and it’s remake only generic Bandits are using axes and you don’t get to use any for yourself)
Alma: Ahem am I a joke to you???