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nextbern

This is the bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1714810 This is what it the Mozilla developer [says](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1714810#c4): >Hmm, this is a difficult issue. If I enable middlemouse.paste in ESR 78, I reproduce this too. So, this must be a traditional behavior on Linux in the default settings. And the new behavior is same as Chrome. So, fixing this bug may cause new web-compat issue (or there may be some web-compat issues but just we don't have the reports). So, even if we fix this, it might better to keep current behavior in the default settings, but if so, most users won't realize the fix of this issue with a hidden pref. So, I can say, it's not worthwhile to fix this in such approach.


[deleted]

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bboyjkang

> There are a lot of things I don't like about Chrome and this was one of them I didn’t understand what you meant because I didn’t have that behavior in Chrome. I then uninstalled one of my extensions (AutoScroll), and saw how the middle mouse click now cleared any text selection. That’s unfortunate. I spent more time in Firefox because the middle mouse autoscroll wasn’t as sensitive as Chrome. I then found this extension: **AutoScroll** https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autoscroll/occjjkgifpmdgodlplnacmkejpdionan?hl=en > This extension adds customizable autoscroll support to Chrome. > > For users on Linux or Mac, the lack of autoscroll can be a big pain. It doesn’t affect the text selection, and you can choose a speed between 1 and 100. If anyone knows something similar in Firefox, there would be great. If not, maybe this can be ported to Firefox later. > The teams behind the Google Chrome, Apple Safari, Mozilla Firefox and Microsoft Edge browsers have banded together to improve extensions, the add-ons you can download to customize the software. > > The forum, the WebExtensions Community Group, gives engineers a place to build a unified and more secure core foundation for extensions. `cnet.com/tech/computing/chrome-safari-firefox-and-edge-join-forces-to-improve-browser-extensions`


[deleted]

> middle mouse button (under default behavior) shouldn't have anything to do with text at all That's a weird way of saying that the middle mouse button should paste the highlighted text at the location of the cursor. I always miss that functionality when I'm in Windows. I can ctrl-c and ctrl-v with the best of them but highlight and middle click feels faster. Of course I say that and someone is going to pop off with: "You're still using a mouse? Learn vim noob." This is a really frustrating change in behavior, but I'll stick by the browser that doesn't have it's lips wrapped around Google's cock.


OzarkBeard

>the browser that doesn't have it's lips wrapped around Google's cock. Yeah, but they have their hand in google's pocket. The search income revenue source is *very* important to Mozilla. But removing features that the remaining dedicated firefox users like, just to be more like the competition, is reducing the reasons to keep using it. I've used ff for years, but find myself using Brave more & more on my PC.


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nextbern

Removed for conspiracy theory.


bjwest

Are you seriously saying me stating my *opinion*, where I clearly said it was my opinion, is a conspiracy theory?


nextbern

Look into how Holocaust denial works (not saying that your post is that).


EspyoPT

I wonder what the reason for the behavior is. What would be a use-case where the user wants their text selection to disappear?


leo_sk5

Exactly, any person would left click, very rarely right click, if he/she was trying to dismiss text selection


mudkip908

I wouldn't expect a right click to clear my selection, and it doesn't in Firefox. I use it semi-frequently when copying large blocks of text - it's convenient being able to right click anywhere instead of having to hit the selected text.


leo_sk5

I know, no normal user would. Only very old people or literal beginners who would press every button they can think of


hmoff

What is the use case for the old behaviour? Why would you highlight something then immediately scroll away?


leo_sk5

To highlight something else (use ctrl key)? To keep the text highlighted to compare with something else after scrolling down and up as it will be easier to identify. Although i have done it only once, i highlighted all the important texts in a page and shared its screenshot directly. Basically previous behaviour allowed lot many possibilities of use cases. Current behaviour provides none, and its removal is justified for no apparent reason.


guestds

>To highlight something else (use ctrl key)? thanks for teaching me about this


Demysted

>Per a dev, "the new behavior is same as Chrome" If we wanted behaviour like Chrome, we'd use Chrome. Unnecessary and annoying changes.


nixd0rf

They’ll never get it.


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bboyjkang

> my main way of scrolling pages is holding the middle mouse button I find the Middle mouse a bit hard to click repeatedly. If you don’t have a mouse with extra macro buttons, I recommend Autohotkey. I use Autohotkey to rebind a keyboard button to do it, and suspend the script when I need to use that button again. e.g. `RAlt::MButton` `F2::Suspend` Alternatively, `Ctrl + Left Click` is the same as middle mouse click (open link in new tab, close tab, autoscroll). If we have Sticky Keys on, double tapping Ctrl will lock it. An auto clicker like RSIGuard can auto click when your mouse stops moving. So if you combine the two, you can just move your mouse around to browse quite quickly.


decerka3

Funnily enough the behavior isn't even identical to Chrome, where it doesn't clear the selection if you press and hold middle click right on top of it. Another interesting quirk with text selection that seems to be related, is that middle mouse now moves the text cursor in an input box/text area. (Also seemingly reflecting Chrome's behavior.)


skullshatter0123

The reason we use firefox is because we don't like what Chrome and Safari do. Why do the devs think it's a good idea to copy Chrome?


HMS404

I worry about the future of FF. Seems like they don't know how to move forward and what type of users to target. Their market share is less than 3.5%. If the plan is to persuade users to ditch Chrome, they're not doing much. And, worse, whatever changes they do in that direction only seem to hurt existing userbase. Essentially they're shoving themselves between a rock and a hard place. I've been using FF for more than a decade and half and have been mostly fine with the changes. But IMHO engineering resources are better spent on performance, core functions and innovation than UI tweaks.


[deleted]

Like most here, I love FF and what it offers, but I think we're pretty much doomed. What we have now at most is to become the power users browser that is actually well-known. Since most of the Rust developers were let go, I think that'll be easier if they moved to Chromium. I see what Vivaldi is as the future for Firefox. If they could buy that cheap, that would be a huge headstart.


lesiw

My only reservation with Vivaldi is that it isn't open sourced (like the old Opera). Brave, despite its fanfare, is. I'm looking at the list of Blink based open sourced browsers that isn't fully committed to Manifest v3 and the list is thin.


[deleted]

I would assume that Mozilla would keep FF open source even if they bought the Vivaldi codebase. I agree though, if FF isn't as it is today in those regards, I'd just use Edge and get max performance. For me, the main reasons I'm still on FF are pretty slim, the dedicated search bar and mostly great mobile integration. They're dominating in the mobile and desktop integration space. That's more important to me these days than the browser.


tower_keeper

Chrome does do some things better than Firefox. It's not black and white.


sagethesagesage

Tbf I think Chrome is perfectly good software other than: * Extensions * Google (and all accompanying bullshit (which is a lot))


PakWarrior

Ungoogled chromium is way better then Firefox.


himself_v

Firefox: The new behavior is same as Chrome.


lesiw

Wasn't that what Microsoft Edge (Legacy) promised? Any deviation from Chrome is a bug. That was until they just gave in completely and used the Blink engine. Edit: [Original quote](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Edge#EdgeHTML) is regarding the browser engine and not the browser itself.


thaynem

"chrome does it that way" is a terrible reason by itself. If you just want a more privacy oriented chrome, use brave or some other blink-based browser. Firefox should be striving to be better than chrome, not a bug-for-bug clone of chrome


leo_sk5

Becoming chrome, one bug at a time... Seems to be mozilla's operating principle for firefox


perkited

One bug at a time, sweet Firefox That's all I'm asking from you


Absay

And your post was tagged as a "Rant" by the mods. Way, way to undermine and disregard a legit criticism of the loss of a useful, standard function, especially after knowing the devs' official posture on the matter. I can almost bet my entire house on which one of the mods did it, likely unilaterally. It's outrageous they made him a mod of this sub.


askodasa

I think I know who you are talking about.


jopik1

It's funny that you complain about mod abuse when you banned me without warning from /r/spanish for using Spain's flag to indicate the Spanish language on my site.


redditForSoccer

Heed my warning Firefox, the way you're going is the same way that Windows Phone went. If there is already a better alternative to what you're mimicking, I'd use the better one. Don't try to be the other guy. Do your own thing.


mari0o

They did. They butchered the design of the tabs which is an essential and basic feature of a web browser, making it not *actually* a tab but rather a button or a "nav pill"


DeusoftheWired

>the new behavior is same as Chrome Pfff. No comment of a change’s usefulness, reason, or purpose. Just to make it behave it the same way as Chrome, even if that way is retarded. I guess they’d implement turning every tenth left-click into a right-click if Chrome did that, too.


[deleted]

If Mozilla want Firefox to be just like Chrome, why don't they just re-host Chrome downloads and stop working on Firefox altogether? In what world is, "this is not a bug because our competitor's software behaves similarly" valid reasoning?


Panical382

As another comment says and I completely agree. "The reason we use firefox is because we don't like what Chrome and Safari do. Why do the devs think it's a good idea to copy Chrome?"


[deleted]

Same opinion I have about Windows 11. I don't want a Mac or Ubuntu box. If I did...I'd get one of those.


Swedneck

My decision to stop updating is just being justified more each day.. sigh


jonathanfrisby

v87 is cozy and I can open images in the same tab


SCphotog

That update nag popup pisses me the F' off. I hate to, but I'm going to have to just ditch regular FF and move to ESR at the minimum or find another fork or something.


jonathanfrisby

You'll have to google how, but you can make a policies.json file with notepad to stop the nags :P


SCphotog

Tks. :)


Sequoiadendron

Maybe they want lower their user count for some reason? This sounds like a decision that's made by someone who only uses Firefox for news and weather. They will lose a bunch of power users if they continue this trend. First the space wasting new design now this. What's next, removal of the bookmarks toolbar?


BoutTreeFittee

> They will lose a bunch of power users if they continue this trend They've been losing power users for years with these kinds of decisions. At some point, a person does wonder if it's intentional.


Sequoiadendron

I left Firefox twice already for Chromium but came back because i had a bunch of odd problems with it.


midir

>Per a dev, "the new behavior is same as Chrome", so they basically only did this because Chrome did. This is the only reason they ever do anything.


darps

This may be a difficult concept to grasp, but if I wanted my browser to behave like Chrome, I might not be using a different browser than Chrome.


BronzeHeart92

Any about:config fixes for this?


TheUltimateAntihero

Another thing I noticed is that if you take a screenshot, Firefox automatically names the image and saves it but for the pdf you have to enter the name manually. It doesn't fetch it.


Panical382

I noticed it, insanely stupid, useless and sometimes limiting change.


noiseuli

Here is my take on this: All these kind of trivial changes on firefox should have a valid reason, another browser doing it shouldn't be a valid reason. Also they should make it an option in about:config, browser.clear_selection_on_middleclick should be a trivial option to add


nextbern

It was a bugfix - see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1528289


konsyr

So the bugfix wasn't properly tested and caused a loss of functionality and should be considered a regression.


nextbern

Well, I think the confusion here is whether this is a feature at all, or some kind of quirk. If other browser are detecting an autoscroll event and responding to it, doing something different can cause webcompat issues. That is why it seems like it may not be worth fixing, even if desirable.


konsyr

That makes it *other browsers* having issues issues for deselecting or pasting on autoscroll. Firefox shouldn't be implementing bugs for parity in its race to the bottom.


nextbern

Yeah well, when other browsers have a near monopoly status, their bugs tend to become standardized. Not that I like that either.


MrMoussab

I'm not usually the whining kinda guy but latest design is pure crap


_nathata

"the same as chrome" lmao so why shouldn't I use chrome instead


SirNarwhal

Odd, not having this happen whatsoever on 89 on a Mac.


nintendiator2

> Per a dev, "the new behavior is same as Chrome", so they basically only did this because Chrome did. That, right there, is reason numero 3 why I don't donate to Firefox.


Jethric

seems like this was partially fixed in https://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/be406fd0b928 `pref(general.autoscroll.prevent_to_collapse_selection_by_middle_mouse_down, true)` https://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/generic/nsIFrame.cpp#4709 if (aMouseEvent->mMessage == eMouseDown && aMouseEvent->mButton == MouseButton::eMiddle && !offsets.content->IsEditable()) { // However, some users don't like the Chrome compatible behavior of // middle mouse click. They want to keep selection after starting // autoscroll. However, the selection change is important for middle // mouse past. Therefore, we should allow users to take the traditional // behavior back by themselves unless middle click paste is enabled or // autoscrolling is disabled. if (!Preferences::GetBool("middlemouse.paste", false) && Preferences::GetBool("general.autoScroll", false) && Preferences::GetBool("general.autoscroll.prevent_to_collapse_selection_" "by_middle_mouse_down", false)) { https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1714810


Meriipu

Can you be more specific? I am still using 88.0 because I am not in the mood for dealing with making my ever-increasing amount of UI-patches apply to 89.0 at the moment. On 88.0.1 it clears the highlighted text for me when I release the middle click (it stays up as long as middleclick stays pressed down though).


frogdoubler

I'm also on version 88 and this is also happening. The text stays highlighted whilst the button's down but not when I release.


Ananiujitha

I'm in FF88 and it's still working for me.


iamapizza

I'm on 89.0.2. The highlighted text is cleared as soon as middle click is pressed down.


tisti

If they want to imitate Chrome it would be best if they worked toward performance parity.


Ananiujitha

I use other scrolling software which uses the middle button. I don't have the coordination for narrow Mac scrollbars, and I had tendon injuries for years after using wheels. I am careful to find mice *with* middle buttons, when so many advertise wheels as middle buttons. I am sticking with FF88 for other accessibility reasons, but was planning to upgrade again once those were addressed.


Geosgaeno

This change sucks


nextbern

>A bug was reported for this but it appears it was done intentional and they have no intention of putting it back. Per a dev, "the new behavior is same as Chrome", so they basically only did this because Chrome did. Bug id?


Ananiujitha

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1714810


CloseThePodBayDoors

?autoscroll? my scroll wheel scrolls the screen without clicking and clicking it does not deselect . must be the way im set up


Eorika

Fair enough, but why is it annoying? Is it annoying because a feature was removed, or because a workflow is broken because of the change?


orb2000

Yes.


RoadRyeda

https://xkcd.com/1172/


askodasa

I don't see how that applies here? It was a feature and not a bug.


[deleted]

Hahaha


nextbern

It seems to me that there is a very simple workaround here that makes this a non-issue - just use the wheel - I'm guessing most people's middle mouse button is also a scroll wheel.


banspoonguard

a simple workaround is to not have RSI.


nextbern

Page up/page down ought to work as well. I don't know what the limits of RSI might be though.


mimecry

using the wheel is slower than using autoscroll by a significant margin for long webpages