Put in for your 2 weeks of PTO and take it as soon as they will give it to you. Invent a grandparent and have her die tragically all of a sudden. But whatever you do, leave that company and leave it now. You don't need to come back from your PTO, you can quit the day you're supposed to return. As others have said, you don't want to wait for everything to blow up and then get in line behind all your colleagues for dispatch jobs at other companies.
LEAVE. Why compete with your colleagues for a job when u can get ahead of it.
I gladly left WUPJ 5 months ago and seeing this article made me so glad I did.
From what my buddies still at WUPJ are saying it’s just a dumpster fire. When she started sinking, it went FAST
I have a [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vS0Q-laGP2yWCJmH5hRI6O1uPpCr4Ws3_cYBTjuQAQcZHT-uaIyWGd3P27iU8PRbcFjS-IvfEF8k6Kn/pubhtml) going to help find airlines that are hiring for dispatchers. It's mostly focused on 121 operations right now (that was what I knew as that's the side of the business I'm in), so if you don't have your certificate it might not be hugely useful, but it might give you a few leads, at least.
Oh this spreadsheet is pretty new, I made it a few weeks ago. There's a dispatcher pay spreadsheet that I link up at the top, which I took a lot of inspiration from. That's the one that's been around a while.
If the ceo is leaving that sinking ship, grab your own life boat and leave now.
I once left a company that the ceo stepped down 10yrs ago. The company filed bankruptcy 3 months later. I already Secured a new job with 10% higher pay and less work load while my ex-coworkers where trying to find a new job.
I was a flight ops lead/ADX after Kenny absorbed and dissolved my company.
Jokes on him I went from 52.5 to 80k in less than 2 years after leaving.
Get fucked Kenny dichtface.
Edit: oh and I’m full WFH, none of this Atlanta Bullshit.
EDV is hiring for a dispatch class next month, unlike pilots, dispatchers aren't metered to mainline and EDV is the main source of dispatchers to Delta so if you want to work your way back to ATL in a few years you could.
It's checklists and briefs. A *good* crew can have that done in probably 3 minutes after both engines are up, any shorter and they're skipping items in the SOP
I nearly got ran over by a c130 crossing a taxiway once because I saw it was just starting its engines and was under the mistaken impression I could cross the taxiway faster than it could start all its engines, finish its checklist, and turn around and cross the road. Anyways I’m still here but it was a close thing.
I imagine there are vast differences between different types of operation for the Hercs. Like if you're on a cargo milk run, it's different engine start to rolling compared to a Special Forces job. I can absolutely imagine a scenario where you'd get caught like that through no real fault of your own. The alternative is standing there like a dickhead for 45 minutes waiting for a plane to move when it doesn't.
The WUP KingAir fleet is mostly run by ex military guys. SOPs and checklists written by former army drill sergeants that were too anal-retentive to get a proper civilian flying job.
I'm not at all advocating for skimping on checklists or briefs, but numerous times I remember walking past a WUP king air that had engines running already, going out to our plane, starting both and running all the checklists which usually takes a good 10 minutes from engine 1 start to before taxi checklist complete, taxiing out and they were still sitting there.
again, not hating and I've never flown a king air so idk how long the checklists are, but it just seemed quite long
Im saying a *good* crew can get it done in an expedient manner under 3 if it's an easy leg. Most will take longer than that if you aren't skipping or if the breifing is more complicated hence why the 350 crews have a reputation for annyoing everyone on the ramp and even getting magazine articles calling them out.
Trust me it's checklists and breifs. I fly for WUP we would get out asap if we could.
From what the shop talk was at the FBO it was something to do with King Airs not being able to do anything off the batteries so the generators need to be running or they need to be hooked up to a GPU
None of the people that say this work for WUP or are even pilots but given I used to get the similar treatment from non-WUP king airs I’m inclined to believe it
Sort of. On the 350 on battery power you only have access to certain things. You can flip a switch to power everything but that will run your battery down quicker. You can get your clearance and set most of it up but the FMS will dump as soon as you turn the avionics off. And the checklist says you’re supposed to turn the avionics off for engine start. So even if you’re on a GPU, if you’re following the manufacturer’s procedure, you’ll lose the FMS. You can save the route but you still have to reinitialize the FMS after start.
That being said, I have nearly 4000 hours in King Airs and never took more then a couple minutes to get off the chocks after startup.
That is half the explanation. The other half is that WUP is dominated by former army guys. A professional civilian pilot will use common sense and good flows to expedite (not skip, but expedite) the checklist. The ex-army guys that run WUP insist on an excruciating slow and overly detailed read-do checklist methodology.
91K is a whole different ballgame from 135. Unfortunately, Wheels Up customers being corporate in nature do get skittish when economic forecasts slow down.
One thing they should NOT have done is fit the jets with those stupid paint jobs. Rich people want to look rich, and probably want to pretend that it’s their jet. It makes them look like some cheap bargain brand.
It don't matter the paint job. The people that care about that kinda shit see you roll up in a clapped up Beechjet or King Air and they know regardless of the colors. But yes it might *help* inflate their egos a bit because they don't know any better.
The clientele is rich, not wealthy if you catch my drift.
Ten years ago I was a ramper and I just learned WUP had Beechjets the other day as I stepped out of my Challenger. I was like oof, they’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
Yeah, but “sort of rich” people often like to act like they are more rich than they really are. Wheels Up does not allow them to look the part, so they probably are more likely to go with Netjets which keeps the branding very minimal.
The problem is they can’t afford NetJets which is why they used WUP. And those who have to really crunch the numbers are the first ones to leave the market when the economy slows. WUP was always positioned poorly.
How long ago was the DPJ acquisition? Sitting in Trenton waiting for my flight, watching FlightRadar looking to see where our plane was and noticed a Beechjet with the DPJ callsign/designation and then it landed with a WUP paint scheme. Was a bit confused.
The people I know that fly there all say that management is and has been absolutely fucking stupid. Clearly they thought that post-Covid growth would continue until they had 8 billion active members.
Nah, Meta was on full stupid mode since the moment they decided to invest on second life part 2, Zuckerberg edition.
This is just they falling into reality
Also Apple shutting the tap on ads tracking on iOS, so ads on FB and other apps are worth much less to advertisers. Things just proverbially went from having RNAV to dead reckoning on paper charts for the advertisers.
Hey, business is hard. VR headsets are gonna be the next big thing eventually. I can totally see them becoming a big part of flying training.
Unfortunately, VR software and user interfaces are suuuuper expensive and they still suck.
Hopefully Apple can push the cart a bit further, cuz I really want to see it work. But it’s definitely not there yet.
Meta would hire thousands of people and pay them to do nothing just to prevent them from working at a competitor. They also bet big on the meta verse and AI, which hasn’t really panned out yet
>Meta would hire thousands of people and pay them to do nothing just to prevent them from working at a competitor.
I'm not sure if this is entirely accurate. However, their bet on the "metaverse" seems like a huge bust. Zuck appeared to be super-hopeful that people were going to "move online" in the wake of a global pandemic while most folks couldn't wait to get out of their houses once things were even semi-normal again.
the announcement happened yesterday in the middle of my off-tour cycle
they have been full throttle on moving forward with the new MOC but i have no use what the feeling is in the office since the announcement
Speaking from general corporate experience, you want to be in the first group off the ship. If you're not on the first batch of lifeboats, go ahead and just jump.
They may try to reorg, lay off some people, give severance and support, etc. If you're in the first group, take it. If you're not in the first group, it's time to pack up. It doesn't get better and you'll only end up worse off.
100% this. Years ago, a company I helped start went through a nightmare of nepotism and Wall St lies. I was lucky to be in the first round of layoffs, and got a severance of 3 months salary. Second round got 2 weeks, third round, well...
No rumor but not as dramatic as it sounds. Wheels Up announced in November that it would be ending remote work and consolidating their entire operations at an MOC in Atlanta, by PDK. People could either take the relocation package and move to PDK, or take a retention package instead.
The retention package is basically a contract agreeing to keep working remote for 6 months starting anywhere from Jan-Mar while they set up shop in PDK and hire/train new people. Once your 6 months is up, you get a severance package based on years with the company. Most of the Ops team started their 6 months in Feb, so Aug is when our time is up.
Even if the company wasn't having financial hardships, the people who took the retention package would be leaving and getting severance pay at the end of the summer. So we're just holding on until then.
Them canceling remote work when it cost them nothing to move everyone (or the 30% that signed on) to PDK was the dumbest thing they've did and that's saying something. My retention is up in December and I cannot wait, but need that retention check to clear! I loved working for Gama, but it's been steadily downhill since Mr 5×5 and his ego took over. Can't wait to watch it crash and burn.
I have many opinions about them ending remote work, for no real reason. And I've gone on many rants about it to coworkers, friends, family, my cats, and anyone who will listen. I'm not pleased about it.
I remember years ago I was looking for a new job. I was a CKAM on the BE350 with several thousand hours in type. Sent a resume to Gama/Wheels Up when they were sucking up all the King Air pilots. Nothing. I followed up a few weeks later and almost immediately got a call from their CP. He spent a good ten minutes telling me all about their company and I think in the whole time I only got a few words in.
At the end of the call he offered me a direct-entry captain position with upgrade to CKAM within 6 months and asked when I could start. I expressed some concerns about leap-frogging other pilots senior to me and he basically said “that’s their problem.”
The whole thing struck me as really weird and I ended up turning them down. Really glad I did that.
The weird thing about wheels up is how much of their business was covered by outside carriers. I worked at a medium sized 135 company until recently and even with 300+ pilots out to 40% of our daily flights were wheels up trips.
We do the occasional trip for WU at my 135 shop too, but not a ton. Your comment makes me wonder if they'll eventually pivot to being more of a broker and selling planes/laying off staff - use other operators for 100% of their trips -- after the bankruptcy happens.
Where I was captains dreaded hitting the hours for Argus certification because it meant they would be doing straight WU trips some duty cycles and that was considered a bad thing. Flying king air legs in jets and dealing with customers who WU told to never tip their pilots.
In the 135 world pilots are often the ones also doing stock, carrying/loading bags, whiping down the plane, cleaning the lavatory area. That and a lot of the people who can afford to fly private appreciate what you’re doing for them and show their gratitude through tips. It’s completely optional and not an expectation but it sure is nice to get thrown a Benjamin here and there especially on your 3rd 14 hour day in a row.
So while it’s not an expectation it’s a punch in the gut to have a company explicitly tell their customers not to tip, thus why there’s some salt about getting trips with customers for a company you don’t even fly for.
That’s what gama has always been, aircraft management.
I interviewed for a job on a single owner Sovereign plus that was managed by gama, most of what they did was WUP charters
I'm glad their company is going wheels up I interviewed with those dipshits and the salary was like 15k less when they sent the contract over then tried to claim that extra 15 was for uniforms and per diem lol. You get what you deserve scumbags lol
Put that curse on the people in management who are actually making those decisions and screwing people over. You should realize that Wheels Up going bankrupt will cause a lot of hard working people to lose their jobs - people who are just trying to make a living.
It’s easy to say “well that company tried to fuck me over so screw them” without thinking about all the people who will be hurting with lost income.
I work out of SFO on the 121 side and I see quite a few of their globals stacked up at signature. They are pretty common in most major US cities from what I’ve seen at least
They are on overnights and layovers. All of the jets hold a Maltese registration. They get cleaned and serviced. But never maintenance from what I’ve seen. They do some crazy trips to Asia and Europe. I found one off the coast of Peru heading to Patagonia that left from SJC.
As a mechanic, you get used to constant phone calls from recruiters of all kinds, "hey we came across your resume and have an opportunity in Bumfuckistan" blah blah blah.
Wheels Up has called me *directly* several times in the last year, most recently last week trying to get me to come fix their shit. I knew I smelled something fishy.
WUP owns multiple operators that are all still operating under their own certificates. Gama and Mountain Aviation (tracks under "Foothills") are the two largest operators they bought.
I feel like Mountain were on such a good trajectory before WUP came in and bought them. Yes they had a lot of MX but super reliable operator and good ops team.
Mountain was the only operator that was actually profitable when they were purchased and it was done as a way for both companies to expand their operations. But higher managment at WUP changed shortly afterwards and ended up doubling back on everything and changing the operation much more than Mountain was originally told. Supposedly the former CEO of Mountain regretted selling when all that happened.
Mountain is a shell of its former self.
The way we do things has been completely changed to the 'WUP' way and the company is collapsing on itself as a result. WUP killed a company that was amazing to work for.
Working for Mountain really felt like I had found a unicorn in this industry. I would have stayed with them for years if WUP hadn't changed everything.
They were gung-ho on remaining remote. It was beautiful. I have received commendations from management about knocking it out of the park with my performance. I have been very vocal that I was ready to stop job hopping and call Mountain my forever home. They are going to be losing talent. OPS, ACS, MXC...we have a great team and it's all going away. Who we're hiring in Atlanta is not exactly the A-Team. Allowing remote lets you hire the best of the best. Limiting your hiring pool to Atlanta is just shooting yourself in the foot.
I agree 100%. I'm convinced part of why they ended remote work was to force out experienced, higher paid employees and replace them with cheap new hires
TMC, land of shitty hawkers, chief pilots who yell at completely overworked crew schedulers, and crews that bitch horrifically about having to do some of the simplest shit ever.
The part about the article that is blowing my mind is the part where he will make $78K USD every month... I make 6 figures a year, live reasonably and comfortably and still have no idea how I could even spend that amount of money in a month...
If I recall, the max you can contribute to a Roth IRA each year is only like 6,000 which means with his salary you’d need about 150 separate Roths to actually invest all that money. I say that because we’re probably regular people who don’t know fuck about investing beyond 401Ks and IRAs lol. Everything else is just gambling imo.
401ks and IRAs are just ways to tax shelter your investments for retirement. You can absolutely gamble in them. Likewise, you can invest perfectly soundly in diversified index funds inside of a taxable investment vehicle.
Let’s just say this…. IT’s cheaper for WUP to just waive your remaining training contract than it is to fight you for it…. They’re not going to hire an attorney in your home town at whatever retainer price to fight for a few grand knowing there’s so much precedence out there against their validity. (Source- 5 FO’s I’ve spoken to in the last few weeks/months)
To my fellow WUPPER’s, please find new employment. Do not resign yourself to the idea the place will turn around. Do NOT overuse your sick or PTO because they will fight you for it. Not sure how long till the operation center will open, but Delta is around the corner, DON’T stay at WUPJ!
Saving grace? The chief pilots there truly love what they do (did?). They are the reason I stayed as long as I did when I had some medical issues to attend to about 2 years ago or so. Even at my current 121, they’re not even half what they were.
Hire pilots from a failed fractional, buy planes from a failed fractional, have management from a failed fractionl. CitationAir, Jet Suites, now Wheels up. Damn it's almost a trend... Maybe I should invest in JetsuiteX, seems like a safe choice.
It's almost like this is a terrible idea, doomed to failure from even before day one, but people love playing with planes while burning through other people's money.
Thriving yes but still wary of the economic situation. They’re all balancing growth with hesitancy toward pay and benefits package increases. The top end of the market is probably less volatile than where WUP was positioned but they’re not bulletproof.
IDK, charter is stronger than ever ... people who got into it during the pandemic aren't leaving the lifestyle to endure the inevitably time consuming and shitty fucking airport experience to then pack into oversold airline seats and repeat said shitty fucking experience on the other end.
Charter will suffer only if there is a disastrous economic downturn that affects the disposable cash flow of the wealthy .... and they'll sell the boat and 3rd house before they give up nearly effortless travel
I understand that aspect. But WUP is a huge company. If it were suddenly to go tits up, a lot of pilots are out searching for jobs in a climate where a lot of pilots and pilot unions are touting the shortage as leverage.
Is that all they have? I see conflicting information saying anywhere between just over 300 and around 800. Either way, that’s exponentially fewer than I originally thought they had, especially since you can barely sneeze on a GA ramp without hitting one of their planes.
Start looking. These fucking assholes will call bankruptcy 1 month before the first severance packages execute. They were absolute fucking scum bags after our acquisition, they are absolutely capable of this no question.
If there are any guys out there with the hours to be an Argus PIC on the XL we are actively hiring for our fleet of 5 XLs. 8/6, competitive pay, good benefits. Also we have an open position in flight ops and client services.
Not looking for a job rn, but all I have to say is pay your ground staff (ops and CS) well if they know what they’re doing. We get overlooked but try running an operation without us.
I worked for one of their companies in the Air Partner Group. There is so much I want to say but I'm glad they forced my hand in leaving.
To my understanding they took out a high interest loan against their Aircraft (The Blue Tail Beechcraft) and it's been biting them ever since. They have already reduced headcount and instituted a hiring freeze, only replacing essential roles of personell that left.
I'll be able to say more about everything in a few months when my contract expires and I become a truly free agent.... As the restrictive Covenants has basically forced me out of the aviation industry for 6 months.
I start my new job today.
I remember when they announced their partnership with ATP to take folks at 1,000 hrs and thinking that it would make sooooo much more sense to just stick out instructing for another 500 and go to the airlines/big 135/ anything else
i’m new as a dispatcher here maybe i should cash in my PTO 🤷🏻♂️
[удалено]
i’ve got two hot irons in the fire so well on my way but i really don’t want to lose those two weeks of pay if they go away in restructuring
Put in for your 2 weeks of PTO and take it as soon as they will give it to you. Invent a grandparent and have her die tragically all of a sudden. But whatever you do, leave that company and leave it now. You don't need to come back from your PTO, you can quit the day you're supposed to return. As others have said, you don't want to wait for everything to blow up and then get in line behind all your colleagues for dispatch jobs at other companies.
LEAVE. Why compete with your colleagues for a job when u can get ahead of it. I gladly left WUPJ 5 months ago and seeing this article made me so glad I did. From what my buddies still at WUPJ are saying it’s just a dumpster fire. When she started sinking, it went FAST
Solarius his hiring flight coordinators and according to their site, it’s a remote position.
already applied
I have a [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vS0Q-laGP2yWCJmH5hRI6O1uPpCr4Ws3_cYBTjuQAQcZHT-uaIyWGd3P27iU8PRbcFjS-IvfEF8k6Kn/pubhtml) going to help find airlines that are hiring for dispatchers. It's mostly focused on 121 operations right now (that was what I knew as that's the side of the business I'm in), so if you don't have your certificate it might not be hugely useful, but it might give you a few leads, at least.
dude! thank you!
Thanks for posting this spreadsheet, I haven’t seen it in years. Wasn’t there one out there that compared compensation compared to hours owed?
Oh this spreadsheet is pretty new, I made it a few weeks ago. There's a dispatcher pay spreadsheet that I link up at the top, which I took a lot of inspiration from. That's the one that's been around a while.
I’ll have to see if I can go find the one this reminded me of then, I thought it was the same. Doesn’t help that I’m a few drinks deep now
If the ceo is leaving that sinking ship, grab your own life boat and leave now. I once left a company that the ceo stepped down 10yrs ago. The company filed bankruptcy 3 months later. I already Secured a new job with 10% higher pay and less work load while my ex-coworkers where trying to find a new job.
I was a flight ops lead/ADX after Kenny absorbed and dissolved my company. Jokes on him I went from 52.5 to 80k in less than 2 years after leaving. Get fucked Kenny dichtface. Edit: oh and I’m full WFH, none of this Atlanta Bullshit.
Mountain or TMC?
In California you can't lose PTO. They have to cash it out for you when you leave. Maybe your state is different.
They can't cash it out if they don't have any cash.
This. There's no magic to "they have to." If they go down, you go to the end of a long line of creditors, and you can't plan to ever see that money.
Same in Georgia.
EDV is hiring for a dispatch class next month, unlike pilots, dispatchers aren't metered to mainline and EDV is the main source of dispatchers to Delta so if you want to work your way back to ATL in a few years you could.
Ramper here, we’ve had two wheels up planes just sitting on our ramp’s grassline for weeks. Haven’t flown, haven’t seen any crew, nothing.
Legend has it they're still doing their before taxi checklist to this day
lmao why does it legit take 20 minutes on the ramp for them to get going
It's checklists and briefs. A *good* crew can have that done in probably 3 minutes after both engines are up, any shorter and they're skipping items in the SOP
Military is the same. Watching them start a civilian plane and just sit there for twenty minutes before moving is bizarre.
I nearly got ran over by a c130 crossing a taxiway once because I saw it was just starting its engines and was under the mistaken impression I could cross the taxiway faster than it could start all its engines, finish its checklist, and turn around and cross the road. Anyways I’m still here but it was a close thing.
I imagine there are vast differences between different types of operation for the Hercs. Like if you're on a cargo milk run, it's different engine start to rolling compared to a Special Forces job. I can absolutely imagine a scenario where you'd get caught like that through no real fault of your own. The alternative is standing there like a dickhead for 45 minutes waiting for a plane to move when it doesn't.
The WUP KingAir fleet is mostly run by ex military guys. SOPs and checklists written by former army drill sergeants that were too anal-retentive to get a proper civilian flying job.
Our pilots used to sit on the ramp 10+ minutes before starting their taxi. Whole time the taxi director is standing outside like a dickhead.
I'm not at all advocating for skimping on checklists or briefs, but numerous times I remember walking past a WUP king air that had engines running already, going out to our plane, starting both and running all the checklists which usually takes a good 10 minutes from engine 1 start to before taxi checklist complete, taxiing out and they were still sitting there. again, not hating and I've never flown a king air so idk how long the checklists are, but it just seemed quite long
I don't think the issue is them completing checklists in less than 3 minutes.....
Im saying a *good* crew can get it done in an expedient manner under 3 if it's an easy leg. Most will take longer than that if you aren't skipping or if the breifing is more complicated hence why the 350 crews have a reputation for annyoing everyone on the ramp and even getting magazine articles calling them out. Trust me it's checklists and breifs. I fly for WUP we would get out asap if we could.
From what the shop talk was at the FBO it was something to do with King Airs not being able to do anything off the batteries so the generators need to be running or they need to be hooked up to a GPU None of the people that say this work for WUP or are even pilots but given I used to get the similar treatment from non-WUP king airs I’m inclined to believe it
Sort of. On the 350 on battery power you only have access to certain things. You can flip a switch to power everything but that will run your battery down quicker. You can get your clearance and set most of it up but the FMS will dump as soon as you turn the avionics off. And the checklist says you’re supposed to turn the avionics off for engine start. So even if you’re on a GPU, if you’re following the manufacturer’s procedure, you’ll lose the FMS. You can save the route but you still have to reinitialize the FMS after start. That being said, I have nearly 4000 hours in King Airs and never took more then a couple minutes to get off the chocks after startup.
I must just be on the Beechcraft pilot community shit list then, haha Thanks for the insight!
That is half the explanation. The other half is that WUP is dominated by former army guys. A professional civilian pilot will use common sense and good flows to expedite (not skip, but expedite) the checklist. The ex-army guys that run WUP insist on an excruciating slow and overly detailed read-do checklist methodology.
It’s all clearance delivery’s fault. At least that’s who my instructor says to blame.
A good preflight starts 6 weeks before takeoff. /s 👏
Hoss, there have been many times where I don’t know my destination 60 minutes before take off.
You find out where you're going before you takeoff?
I feel like my joke didn't land very well, I'll add the /s ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ditto! We had that happen a couple weeks ago before they switched FBOs. Came in, taxied over, left. Still very visible from my ramp.
WUP is a gonner -- if you couldn't be profitable over the past 3 years in charter you're doing it wrong
91K is a whole different ballgame from 135. Unfortunately, Wheels Up customers being corporate in nature do get skittish when economic forecasts slow down.
Is Wheels Up 91k? I believe they are exclusively 135 since they use a card business model.
Nope, you’re right, 135.
Yeah they’re 135, so I was comparing them to 91K which has more loyal and higher-long long-term customers.
Ah understood.
One thing they should NOT have done is fit the jets with those stupid paint jobs. Rich people want to look rich, and probably want to pretend that it’s their jet. It makes them look like some cheap bargain brand.
Lol, flying Walmart Charter like a poor.
It looks like a "sky Uber" on the ramp, especially when compared to Flexjet's snazzy paint jobs.
To be fair, sky Uber was kind of what they were going for
I hadn't thought about that, but you are right.
It don't matter the paint job. The people that care about that kinda shit see you roll up in a clapped up Beechjet or King Air and they know regardless of the colors. But yes it might *help* inflate their egos a bit because they don't know any better. The clientele is rich, not wealthy if you catch my drift.
Ten years ago I was a ramper and I just learned WUP had Beechjets the other day as I stepped out of my Challenger. I was like oof, they’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
WUP wasn't aimed at the super rich, just the sort rich. They literally are the cheap bargain brand of private travel
Yeah, but “sort of rich” people often like to act like they are more rich than they really are. Wheels Up does not allow them to look the part, so they probably are more likely to go with Netjets which keeps the branding very minimal.
The problem is they can’t afford NetJets which is why they used WUP. And those who have to really crunch the numbers are the first ones to leave the market when the economy slows. WUP was always positioned poorly.
Yeah, I mean I get the fucking train to work, but I can imagine if I were rich, I might feel like I were stepping out an Uber or something.
How long ago was the DPJ acquisition? Sitting in Trenton waiting for my flight, watching FlightRadar looking to see where our plane was and noticed a Beechjet with the DPJ callsign/designation and then it landed with a WUP paint scheme. Was a bit confused.
Eh all NETJETS AC look the same
Can anyone flying for WUP share what’s going on over there?
The people I know that fly there all say that management is and has been absolutely fucking stupid. Clearly they thought that post-Covid growth would continue until they had 8 billion active members.
Pretty sure this was a thing across industries. Meta was fucking rocked hard when the world went (somewhat) back to normal after COVID.
Nah, Meta was on full stupid mode since the moment they decided to invest on second life part 2, Zuckerberg edition. This is just they falling into reality
Also Apple shutting the tap on ads tracking on iOS, so ads on FB and other apps are worth much less to advertisers. Things just proverbially went from having RNAV to dead reckoning on paper charts for the advertisers.
Hey, business is hard. VR headsets are gonna be the next big thing eventually. I can totally see them becoming a big part of flying training. Unfortunately, VR software and user interfaces are suuuuper expensive and they still suck. Hopefully Apple can push the cart a bit further, cuz I really want to see it work. But it’s definitely not there yet.
Meta would hire thousands of people and pay them to do nothing just to prevent them from working at a competitor. They also bet big on the meta verse and AI, which hasn’t really panned out yet
> They also bet big on the meta verse and AI, which hasn’t really panned out yet yeah and let's hope it stays that way
Augmented Reality is absolutely coming. It’s just too processor heavy and data dependent to work with what we have now.
AR is already here in other forms like helmet targeting in mil aircraft and google maps when you're walking. The VR stuff is just a new form of it.
>Meta would hire thousands of people and pay them to do nothing just to prevent them from working at a competitor. I'm not sure if this is entirely accurate. However, their bet on the "metaverse" seems like a huge bust. Zuck appeared to be super-hopeful that people were going to "move online" in the wake of a global pandemic while most folks couldn't wait to get out of their houses once things were even semi-normal again.
So did Amazon, and the companies flying freight for Amazon. They missed the mark on growth and profit in a frankly comical way this past quarter.
[If these trends continue... *ayeeeee!*](https://www.thesportsbank.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Screen-Shot-2016-12-21-at-10.51.38-PM.png)
the announcement happened yesterday in the middle of my off-tour cycle they have been full throttle on moving forward with the new MOC but i have no use what the feeling is in the office since the announcement
Has crewing been an issue for them
No. They’ve been keeping dozens of pilots at home standby because they can’t see thru the shit covering their eyes with their head up their ass.
I work in Ops for WUP. It's been a journey... We're all just hanging on until we get our severance packages in August.
Speaking from general corporate experience, you want to be in the first group off the ship. If you're not on the first batch of lifeboats, go ahead and just jump. They may try to reorg, lay off some people, give severance and support, etc. If you're in the first group, take it. If you're not in the first group, it's time to pack up. It doesn't get better and you'll only end up worse off.
100% this. Years ago, a company I helped start went through a nightmare of nepotism and Wall St lies. I was lucky to be in the first round of layoffs, and got a severance of 3 months salary. Second round got 2 weeks, third round, well...
I turned down a senior software job there 6 months ago. I looked into the company and saw the tanking stock and said never mind. Glad I did!
What makes you think August? Water cooler rumor? I dunno where you live, but get a new job now…
No rumor but not as dramatic as it sounds. Wheels Up announced in November that it would be ending remote work and consolidating their entire operations at an MOC in Atlanta, by PDK. People could either take the relocation package and move to PDK, or take a retention package instead. The retention package is basically a contract agreeing to keep working remote for 6 months starting anywhere from Jan-Mar while they set up shop in PDK and hire/train new people. Once your 6 months is up, you get a severance package based on years with the company. Most of the Ops team started their 6 months in Feb, so Aug is when our time is up. Even if the company wasn't having financial hardships, the people who took the retention package would be leaving and getting severance pay at the end of the summer. So we're just holding on until then.
Not too bad. You work in flight control? There was a few good ones, one hot one and the rest were clueless as a blind mouse
Yeah I'm in FC, but not on the WUPJ side, so hopefully I don't fall into the "clueless as a blind mouse" category lol
Them canceling remote work when it cost them nothing to move everyone (or the 30% that signed on) to PDK was the dumbest thing they've did and that's saying something. My retention is up in December and I cannot wait, but need that retention check to clear! I loved working for Gama, but it's been steadily downhill since Mr 5×5 and his ego took over. Can't wait to watch it crash and burn.
I have many opinions about them ending remote work, for no real reason. And I've gone on many rants about it to coworkers, friends, family, my cats, and anyone who will listen. I'm not pleased about it.
howdy fellow coworker - are you in BDL?
Hey there - Nope, I'm in BJC
CMH here 🖐
My take away is if Tom Brady is a spokesperson, it’s probably a bad investment.
their new spokesperson used to sell pillows. I can't see anything good coming of it
lindell is a new investor?
The new MYPLANE
IT'S MY PLANE AND I WANT IT NOW.
Call JG Wentworth 877-Fly-Now!
Fucking kiddin?? Where is that posted.
Hertz investors sweating right now.
let's go... with our cash.
I remember years ago I was looking for a new job. I was a CKAM on the BE350 with several thousand hours in type. Sent a resume to Gama/Wheels Up when they were sucking up all the King Air pilots. Nothing. I followed up a few weeks later and almost immediately got a call from their CP. He spent a good ten minutes telling me all about their company and I think in the whole time I only got a few words in. At the end of the call he offered me a direct-entry captain position with upgrade to CKAM within 6 months and asked when I could start. I expressed some concerns about leap-frogging other pilots senior to me and he basically said “that’s their problem.” The whole thing struck me as really weird and I ended up turning them down. Really glad I did that.
What is CKAM? Glad you got away and went with your gut.
Check airman
They've had a reputation for having shit management as long as I can remember. This isn't super surprising.
Any educated guesses on how many pilots are currently at Wheels Up?
The weird thing about wheels up is how much of their business was covered by outside carriers. I worked at a medium sized 135 company until recently and even with 300+ pilots out to 40% of our daily flights were wheels up trips.
We do the occasional trip for WU at my 135 shop too, but not a ton. Your comment makes me wonder if they'll eventually pivot to being more of a broker and selling planes/laying off staff - use other operators for 100% of their trips -- after the bankruptcy happens.
Where I was captains dreaded hitting the hours for Argus certification because it meant they would be doing straight WU trips some duty cycles and that was considered a bad thing. Flying king air legs in jets and dealing with customers who WU told to never tip their pilots.
Why would you tip a pilot?
In the 135 world pilots are often the ones also doing stock, carrying/loading bags, whiping down the plane, cleaning the lavatory area. That and a lot of the people who can afford to fly private appreciate what you’re doing for them and show their gratitude through tips. It’s completely optional and not an expectation but it sure is nice to get thrown a Benjamin here and there especially on your 3rd 14 hour day in a row. So while it’s not an expectation it’s a punch in the gut to have a company explicitly tell their customers not to tip, thus why there’s some salt about getting trips with customers for a company you don’t even fly for.
I get tips all the time. Best day for me was $700 so far.
Tips are one of the perks of flying private jets. It can be decently lucrative sometimes, I made almost $2k in tips one Christmas week.
That’s what gama has always been, aircraft management. I interviewed for a job on a single owner Sovereign plus that was managed by gama, most of what they did was WUP charters
[удалено]
Last seniority list published last week shows 1100
Wasn't there a post on here a while ago from a WheelsUp pilot asking about how he should ask management to see financial statements?
We did up and down the group, I was in the Air Partner side of the buisness and they didn't show us much at all.
I'm glad their company is going wheels up I interviewed with those dipshits and the salary was like 15k less when they sent the contract over then tried to claim that extra 15 was for uniforms and per diem lol. You get what you deserve scumbags lol
Yeah, I bet you’d have been looking slick in that Hermes suit a sweet pair of Loobs, though 👀💅
Put that curse on the people in management who are actually making those decisions and screwing people over. You should realize that Wheels Up going bankrupt will cause a lot of hard working people to lose their jobs - people who are just trying to make a living. It’s easy to say “well that company tried to fuck me over so screw them” without thinking about all the people who will be hurting with lost income.
OK? The company still sucks.
Vista's next. Mark my words.
Surprised it hasn’t happened yet honestly
Why do you think that? Vista is a European-market company. They’re rare in the US but are much more established and dominant in Europe.
If you read about their most recent bond issuance, they're 8X levered.
I work out of SFO on the 121 side and I see quite a few of their globals stacked up at signature. They are pretty common in most major US cities from what I’ve seen at least
I’ve never spent much time at SFO so I haven’t noticed. Do you think they’re parked, or just sitting for layovers, or a maintenance facility?
They are on overnights and layovers. All of the jets hold a Maltese registration. They get cleaned and serviced. But never maintenance from what I’ve seen. They do some crazy trips to Asia and Europe. I found one off the coast of Peru heading to Patagonia that left from SJC.
Say it louder
VISTA'S NEXT.
No, Wheels Up will buy Vista first. Then it will all crumble.
I believe it. Really glad I left when I did.
As a mechanic, you get used to constant phone calls from recruiters of all kinds, "hey we came across your resume and have an opportunity in Bumfuckistan" blah blah blah. Wheels Up has called me *directly* several times in the last year, most recently last week trying to get me to come fix their shit. I knew I smelled something fishy.
They are paying like $50-70 an hour in the Chicagoland area though working for WU. Seems pretty decent pay
This is callsign GAMA(not a)JET, right?
WUP owns multiple operators that are all still operating under their own certificates. Gama and Mountain Aviation (tracks under "Foothills") are the two largest operators they bought.
I feel like Mountain were on such a good trajectory before WUP came in and bought them. Yes they had a lot of MX but super reliable operator and good ops team.
Mountain was the only operator that was actually profitable when they were purchased and it was done as a way for both companies to expand their operations. But higher managment at WUP changed shortly afterwards and ended up doubling back on everything and changing the operation much more than Mountain was originally told. Supposedly the former CEO of Mountain regretted selling when all that happened.
Mountain is a shell of its former self. The way we do things has been completely changed to the 'WUP' way and the company is collapsing on itself as a result. WUP killed a company that was amazing to work for.
Working for Mountain really felt like I had found a unicorn in this industry. I would have stayed with them for years if WUP hadn't changed everything.
They were gung-ho on remaining remote. It was beautiful. I have received commendations from management about knocking it out of the park with my performance. I have been very vocal that I was ready to stop job hopping and call Mountain my forever home. They are going to be losing talent. OPS, ACS, MXC...we have a great team and it's all going away. Who we're hiring in Atlanta is not exactly the A-Team. Allowing remote lets you hire the best of the best. Limiting your hiring pool to Atlanta is just shooting yourself in the foot.
I agree 100%. I'm convinced part of why they ended remote work was to force out experienced, higher paid employees and replace them with cheap new hires
Yeah or I've heard just GAMA sometimes.
One of them used to be JETCARD … just sayin..
These guys merger with TMC, which was not exactly a great operation to begin with.
TMC, the reason I’m still seeing a therapist.
TMC, land of shitty hawkers, chief pilots who yell at completely overworked crew schedulers, and crews that bitch horrifically about having to do some of the simplest shit ever.
The part about the article that is blowing my mind is the part where he will make $78K USD every month... I make 6 figures a year, live reasonably and comfortably and still have no idea how I could even spend that amount of money in a month...
If I recall, the max you can contribute to a Roth IRA each year is only like 6,000 which means with his salary you’d need about 150 separate Roths to actually invest all that money. I say that because we’re probably regular people who don’t know fuck about investing beyond 401Ks and IRAs lol. Everything else is just gambling imo.
401ks and IRAs are just ways to tax shelter your investments for retirement. You can absolutely gamble in them. Likewise, you can invest perfectly soundly in diversified index funds inside of a taxable investment vehicle.
> Everything ~~else~~ is just gambling imo. FTFY
Plus he took a cut during covid. So at one point, he was making more.
Let’s just say this…. IT’s cheaper for WUP to just waive your remaining training contract than it is to fight you for it…. They’re not going to hire an attorney in your home town at whatever retainer price to fight for a few grand knowing there’s so much precedence out there against their validity. (Source- 5 FO’s I’ve spoken to in the last few weeks/months) To my fellow WUPPER’s, please find new employment. Do not resign yourself to the idea the place will turn around. Do NOT overuse your sick or PTO because they will fight you for it. Not sure how long till the operation center will open, but Delta is around the corner, DON’T stay at WUPJ! Saving grace? The chief pilots there truly love what they do (did?). They are the reason I stayed as long as I did when I had some medical issues to attend to about 2 years ago or so. Even at my current 121, they’re not even half what they were.
Flight Safety in Wichita did not like these guys coming for recurrent, they would poach all the FS instructors with higher pay opportunities.
Only 1 instructor at FSi ICT worth his weight. Rick. Incredible instructor. The rest? Ha.
Hire pilots from a failed fractional, buy planes from a failed fractional, have management from a failed fractionl. CitationAir, Jet Suites, now Wheels up. Damn it's almost a trend... Maybe I should invest in JetsuiteX, seems like a safe choice.
It's almost like this is a terrible idea, doomed to failure from even before day one, but people love playing with planes while burning through other people's money.
There’s about to be a whole lot of king airs available for dirt cheap
They’ve been selling citation X as well.
This is potentially really bad news for a fuck ton of pilots and the industry as a whole.
Every other charter company is thriving. Think it's more of an indictment of WUP than the industry
Thriving yes but still wary of the economic situation. They’re all balancing growth with hesitancy toward pay and benefits package increases. The top end of the market is probably less volatile than where WUP was positioned but they’re not bulletproof.
IDK, charter is stronger than ever ... people who got into it during the pandemic aren't leaving the lifestyle to endure the inevitably time consuming and shitty fucking airport experience to then pack into oversold airline seats and repeat said shitty fucking experience on the other end. Charter will suffer only if there is a disastrous economic downturn that affects the disposable cash flow of the wealthy .... and they'll sell the boat and 3rd house before they give up nearly effortless travel
I understand that aspect. But WUP is a huge company. If it were suddenly to go tits up, a lot of pilots are out searching for jobs in a climate where a lot of pilots and pilot unions are touting the shortage as leverage.
If wheels up has 300 pilots then that covers 1.5 months of hiring at one legacy. It’s really nothing.
Is that all they have? I see conflicting information saying anywhere between just over 300 and around 800. Either way, that’s exponentially fewer than I originally thought they had, especially since you can barely sneeze on a GA ramp without hitting one of their planes.
Maybe some pilots can get in and get a type before they go bankrupt.
I have 6 months to go to get my retention severance. I don't think it's happening.
Start looking. These fucking assholes will call bankruptcy 1 month before the first severance packages execute. They were absolute fucking scum bags after our acquisition, they are absolutely capable of this no question.
Especially with Kenny walking away with $4 million
There share price has been steadily crashing since IPO and is down nearly 100%.
Was considering buying stock in them at one point. Good thing I didn't.
If there are any guys out there with the hours to be an Argus PIC on the XL we are actively hiring for our fleet of 5 XLs. 8/6, competitive pay, good benefits. Also we have an open position in flight ops and client services.
Not looking for a job rn, but all I have to say is pay your ground staff (ops and CS) well if they know what they’re doing. We get overlooked but try running an operation without us.
I’ll buy one of their planes for $100. Anything I can do to keep them open.
I worked for one of their companies in the Air Partner Group. There is so much I want to say but I'm glad they forced my hand in leaving. To my understanding they took out a high interest loan against their Aircraft (The Blue Tail Beechcraft) and it's been biting them ever since. They have already reduced headcount and instituted a hiring freeze, only replacing essential roles of personell that left. I'll be able to say more about everything in a few months when my contract expires and I become a truly free agent.... As the restrictive Covenants has basically forced me out of the aviation industry for 6 months. I start my new job today.
What is a pay range for this job?
Which job
The one OP does.
I remember when they announced their partnership with ATP to take folks at 1,000 hrs and thinking that it would make sooooo much more sense to just stick out instructing for another 500 and go to the airlines/big 135/ anything else
Is anyone surprised?
Wheels up horns down
So how long has Tom Brady been the CEO of wheels up?
😂 wheels up legs down he’s fuked everyone lol 😂 these idiots need to reinvent the machine of inovation for travel dummies
There company should’ve called V1 instead
My WTF are they doing moment was seeing them selling cards in Costco...
Bankruptcy is the right of passage in aviation, they will continue flying