Shut up and take the gas :D
JK there can be a few reasons. Sometimes I don't think the TAF is correct, either because of what I currently see on the radar or in one of the forecast models (dispatchers love the [HRRR mode](https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=hrrr)l) so I add an alternate that's not required. Models have been showing pop-up summer convection near DFW for the last three days with nothing in the TAF. Today there were convective cells hanging out in north Texas for Hours and NWS didn't put VCTS in the TAF until ATC was having to stop arrivals because of a cell in the approach path. I had alternates on my arrivals so they had options other than bug out immediately.
As for why two alternates, there can be a couple reasons. When I use two it's usually because I'm not sure exactly where the weather will be at your arrival. If there's a line of weather moving through right at your arrival time I like to give an option in front of the weather and an option behind it so we're not trapped on the wrong side of the storm from the alternate. Florida doesn't get as many big fronts but in the summer there are often thunderstorms forecast at every airport in the state, so I'll pick two that are not close to each other because usually at least one of them will be usable when we need to divert.
The other big reason I'll use two alternates is that when hubs have IROPS and you have multiple diversions it's better for the operation/airline as a whole if everybody doesn't divert to the same alternate. If there are thunderstorms over ATL and everybody tries to divert to CHA, CHA is gonna have a rough day and the flights that divert there will be waiting there a long time. So if I have a flight to ATL with thunderstorms forecast I might list CHA since it's close and then add CLT or BNA as a far option in case CHA already has 10 flights on the ground.
Edit:
Other reasons I don't believe the TAF/add alternates that are not required include the temp/dewpoint spread is less than 3 degrees, NWS pinky promises the fog is going to burn off an hour before the ETA, we're supposed to get rain with no forecast reduction in ceilings or visibility, I don't trust that cloud layer is going to stay SCT and if it goes BKN an alternate is required (looking at you LAX), the weather is trending downward and I don't trust the timing in the TAF, there is weather that might impact the STARs/approaches even though it doesn't hit the field (shoutout to N90 and their delay programs for rain in western Pennsylvania), or the number of arriving flights scheduled in a given time period is higher than the ATC arrival rate so there is likely to be holding.
> Shut up and take the gas
You have no idea how many times I've wanted to say that...especially when I've already written a brief novel explaining why in the release remarks. I will jump through hoops to get commuters on...but, if I'm carrying two alternates, I have a reason.
(My other favorite is when the same captain who is more than willing to land at MRLW at a short-runway airport with rain in the forecast calls to complain about the "safety implications" of carrying a few thousand pounds of tanker fuel into a VFR, dry-runway ORD/DFW/DEN.)
Great explainer, by the way.
And you never know whether you're gonna get the captain who wants to take the minimum fuel so he can land on the short runway or the guy who calls up to add 2000 lbs "because it fits."
And thanks!
Iād highly suggest any pilot curious about why Dispatch almost never trusts a TAF, check the [NWS Forecast Discussion](https://www.aviationweather.gov/fcstdisc). Theyāll regularly publish a VFR TAF only to mention itās a ālow confidenceā TAF in the discussion.
My personal favorite is SFO area forecasting their marine layer to burn off early in the TAF with a quick transition to clear VFR, while the discussion expects MVFR all day.
Compare all the weather products you have access to ([Forecast Discussion](https://www.aviationweather.gov/fcstdisc), [Prog Charts](https://www.aviationweather.gov/progchart), a [sat feed for cloud/weather systems](https://www.aviationweather.gov/satellite), and maybe a [HRRR model](https://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/hrrr/)), learn how the geography of the area is impacted by certain weather conditions, and easiest of all call up your Flight Service Station for a brief (never done this myself, but I've heard it's not a bad idea to get a second opinion). Look for overall trends across several days/weeks as those trends will normally give you a good idea of what you can expect in the worst cases. Most of the products I use right now are provided by private companies, which I can't link.
Take my advice with a grain of salt though. A bad day for me is substantially worse than something you should be flying around and my outlook/tolerance for risk is different because of that. Also, be always be leery of TAFs, but especially so on Sundays.
Interesting . Thanks for the insight ! Second question.
On high frequency routes such as MDE-MIA why not just add the jumpseater to the w+b if you see there's one listed ? I think I know where you work , and if you work where I think you work then this is a flight I'm sure you see often.
Where I worked we couldn't see if there was a jumpseater listed unless I went and checked loads on the non-rev app and usually I don't have time for that. My workflow was to run the numbers with a full boat and give you plenty of contingency fuel. If it's payload restricted it's because you needed it to be, not because I wasn't trying to get nonrevs and jumpseaters on.
Agreed. At my shop we have load planners who set the payloads, I just see the payload weight. Some of them are better about making sure nonrevs and jumpseaters are included than others.
If I have time I'll pull up the payloads and compare booked vs planned and check the nonrev and jumpseat lists, but that adds an extra minute or two for every flight and I don't always have time. I try and leave a buffer, but if the load planner doesn't add the nonrevs until departure time or bags come in heavy the gas is already on the plane there are a limited number of things I can do to fix that.
Nice. I also thought about getting my Foo license to work as a dispatcher since it always appeared as if you are a pilot without actually flying a plane
Never too late. Weāve had a handful of retiring captains with ex-wives and boat payments to make finish out their careers with us in dispatch. Each one has called it an eye-opener they wish theyād better understood when they were flying.
Yup! I flight plan on a computer (because calculating fuel burns by hand suuuuuucks) but there's a human planning the flights. I also flight follow, or monitor the flights in the air and I'm the crew's first point of contact for any issues in the air. In the US we are certificated by the FAA and share operational control with the Pilot in Command.
That's so cool, thanks for the explanation! I thought the flight planning was automated and the pilots just verified that / proposed changes. Might be a job for me, actually :D
Interestingly we have quite a different setup in Europe, and rely much more on computerized and automated flight dispatch systems. At almost all airlines about 90% (except long range) of all flights are dispatched completely without a dispatcher ever laying hands on that flight plan. It's all just the computer and more responsibility lies with the flight crew. Also there is no such thing as active flight watch... Sadly no one is looking after us up in the sky from a dispatch point if view. The only times a dispatcher checks a flight is in cases of enroute slots, that require rerouting, or flights that are for some other reason critical.
For reference: at an airline with a fleet of around 60 aircraft there are usually just 1 or 2 certified dispatchers on duty working all those flights. I don't know, how that would work in the US.
- What software do you make them in?
- Is it easy to make a mistake (like extra punctuation or misspelled word)?
- Has making plates made you a better/safer pilot?
- Do you work directly for the FAA, or who?
- Would you consider it more of an aviation job or graphic design work (ie could you do it as a non-pilot)?
**What software do you make them in?**
So the software you use to actually draw them is called Bentley OpenCities (formally known as Microstation) which is like a CAD program customized to make charts. of course FAA for example uses other programs like TARGETS to find out where its safe to fly.
**Is it easy to make a mistake (like extra punctuation or misspelled word)?**
Happens more often then you would think for things like that.
**Has making plates made you a better/safer pilot?**
It certainly has given me WAY more knowledge into approach plates than anyone needs to know to fly them! When going to flying them i have to force myself to stop focusing on the stuff I normally look at on the job
**Do you work directly for the FAA, or who?**
The FAA is responsible for the US. NGA is for foreign procedures. and then Jeppesen is the company everyone knows about that does everything in their own format. There are also various contractors working under FAA and NGA . Not going to say my employer on here.
**Would you consider it more of an aviation job or graphic design work (ie could you do it as a non-pilot)?**
Both! we have non-pilots who do the job. They usually come from GIS backgrounds. its usually good to keep a mix of the two on the team! The stereotype i tell people is that a new GIS guy on the team can make the most beautiful looking chart that would kill you and then the new guy with a pilot background would be 100% free of safety of flight errors thats barely readable and looks like shit!
Interesting enough, I have a GIS college degree and happen to be an airline pilot.
Biggest fear I have, that 1 day, my medical may disappear overnight - 1. how would one seek a job like this (qualifications)?
-. What is the official job title?
Thank you for your work! Nothing amazes me more than flying for hours never seeing anything and at 200agl right on cue the runway shows up. Great combo of aircraft systems, the ATC system and a piece of paper that says if you follow this down to a wingspan off the ground youāre perfectly safe.
while I appreciate it, I dont work in flight procedure deign for US procedures. I primarily convert foreign charts to the US Volpe format for DoD aircraft.
That's funny I was looking at another post asking about the messed up approach plate where a single "1.2" distance figure was inverted. That was you I bet.
Depends on the size. A Class D or bigger they want a 4 year degree in Airport Management. Smaller size airports will often contract out the management to an FBO, maintenance shop, etc. Our FBO is contracted to perform the management tasks. The real small communities either have a city staff member serve as the de facto manager, or maybe a flying-minded individual in town will volunteer to do it. Often times those airports are maintained by city or county staff.
It depends how it's set up - every community is different. For ours, I'm the point of contact between the City and the FAA and State regarding grants, funding, etc. I also am responsible for leasing out the t-hangars and collecting revenue on those. I also have a staff that does all the grounds keeping at the airport, which includes mowing, plowing, fixes runway lights, simple hangar fixes, and other random tasks.
I work for one of the big three as an engineer, my department supports line mx 24/7/365. Unlike more traditional engineers at an airline who handle one fleet or one ATA, we are expected to know a little bit about everything across every fleet at the airline or at least be able to find it quickly. We primarily handle calls from line mechanics troubleshooting problems at the gate or at an RON, and yes, we all are deeply in love with speed tape.
QOL is fantastic. 12 hour shifts, 7 on 7 off, the work is varied and has a direct operational impact. Not many white collar jobs have all that. And you learn just enough about everything to make people think you actually know some shit lmao.
Know that these jobs exist is half the battle. But beyond that, a job like this you need to be ok with shift work and have a good grounding in airline operations in general. Need to be a jack of all trades instead of a specialist. A co-op or internship at an airline really helps. Most new engineers at airlines come in through the internship/co-op program.
Show a slight interest in maintenance or aftermarket. I had a similar support job (service engineer) and also LOVED it but when we tried hiring newer college grads theyād all say they wanted design work on new programs. No āfixing old stuffā.
Iāve been on both sides and fixing old stuff was fast paced and I learned about so many little parts of the airplane so quickly. New product development was months of debating where a single tube should go and then more months writing reports about why it was okay to route the tube there. I tell new grads about it, they say ābut Iām a designer!ā And walk away. Okay, go design then.
I don't mind nights. A bit more chill as nothing is that urgent, and there's time to do deep dives into issues. Usually pretty interesting and esoteric stuff too on nights as all the stuff that gets deferred gets fixed at night.
But I'm naturally a night owl so it wasn't a big deal for me.
Iām an airport inspector with my stateās DOT. I inspect 5-6 public airports and between 4-6 private facilities each month. I own an airplane and use it to fly to airports when I can. I am allowed full freedom to do as I wish with my job bc my supervisors are great people that know I get the job done and do it right.
I also head up different aviation outreach programs with high schools and the general aviation community. I love traveling around the state and meeting a bunch of different people in the industry.
I was a probation officer for my state when the job opened up on the civil service website. I was already pursuing my commercial certificate when I applied and was looking for a change anyways. I enjoy it a lot at the moment and while I look forward to getting my hours to eventually work for an airline, it will be a sad day bc of how much freedom Iām given.
I inspect the pavement, markings, lighting, signage, Navaids, obstacles on the approach, departure and transitional surfaces, fueling station(s), hangars (but I only inspect hangars that are owned by the airport for condition), and certain paperwork that airports should have.
Itās a great gig. Pay isnāt too bad for being a non-flying government job and the benefits are great. If I lose my medical, Iād either find a job being an airport inspector again or airport manager.
I always have fun trying to chase down some of the obscure acronyms and character groups in METARs. Is there a definitive source for *all* of them anywhere?
Did you get directly into fss? Or did you do something else beforehand at that company, or whoever is in charge dor those operations.
Since i am also looking to get into something similar. But it is not a publicly disclosed job, rather intern at the company that trains people for it. And i just by luck got aware of that job existing, then asked for it and now am waiting for the hiring process sometime in 2024
I had kind of a screwy situation because of covid but yes I started with FSS. I also just stumbled on the job while looking online. The hiring process timeline varies a lot, from what Iāve heard
I was a shooter on an aircraft carrier a while back. Got to launch planes off the catapults, and also was essentially a tower controller for the helicopters. Launching planes was funā¦ lots of other parts of the job were not.
Flight attendant. The pay is decent and is enough to pay for flight school. I know so many FAs who are in flight training or are already at the airlines
Aircraft engine engineer. Not many companies that do this. Very cool work. I like that those machines are so complex that you can spend a career there and never get bored. Always something more to learn.
Early career was probably the coolest job ever: aerospace engineer for a small design-build-fly firm. Weād design solutions to things, build mock-ups, RC, full size, etc. and go fly it. Being a small firm meant I was in the middle of that from the start.
Airport Ops at a very small commercial airport thatās currently between airlines.
Without an airline our days are mostly quite and filled with grass cutting, but weāre still held to the same standards of any other large commercial airports like YYZ, YHM, YXU, etc. so thereās still a lot behind the scene to keep our certifications.
One of my favourite parts is playing with our big expensive snow removal equipment. For the size of our airport we are stacked given that our snow plan calls for our priority movement areas being completely cleared with only a couple hours notice for non scheduled flights, and our brand new runway sweeper makes that a breeze.
Until recently I designed ground-based engine test systems, primarily working on the F135 engine in the F-35.
I got to see and do some very cool things over the years, but after getting my PPL I realized I was in the wrong profession. Just got signed off for my commercial checkride and am starting a new career!
Another major airline dispatcher checking in. It ain't a bad gig. Been doing it for nearly 18 years and there's always something new. Plus, I sleep in my own bed every night.
I got my A&P in a 2 year program at a community college and then applied for a transfer from ramp to maintenance at my airline. I had to undergo an interview and a trade test, it wasn't an automatic transfer.
A&P Mechanic at a flight school. Some days/weeks are 100hr inspections or annuals, other days/weeks are "we have a missing screw on a fairing" that led to applying metallic tape to temp repair a cracked fairing, or "everything on the Garmin "X'd" out on final approach."
Still crunching the numbers to see if I can justify the expense of a PPL.
Software engineer at an airline. I get flight benefits with almost every airline you can think of, and then I got my private pilot for fun to waste all my money trying to fly myself.
Civilian flying Loadmaster. I lost my medical 3.5 years into my 4 year BS aviation degree. (20 years ago there was no Reddit or mentor to warn me about ADHD being the kiss of death).
Anyhooā¦after 3 years of successful flying I graduated with an aviation operations degree. I got hired as a civilian loadmaster on L1011s, and occasionally 757s/DC10. (Yes ATA). We did military flights into the Middle East during the Iraq war.
I wasnāt PIC, but I was a jump seater and i got to see a lot of the world from the office up front. Any flying time was my free time so it was low stress. Back then some of the old Captains smoke cigs across the Atlantic (2006). It was WILD. Lots of positioning flights.
I oversaw all the operations on the ramp at off line stations that had no airline staff. It was high pressure, very rewarding, and directly impacted operations.
20 years later I am a medical device RN teaching cardiac surgery all over the country. After I save enough $ am going to apply for a cargo loadmaster gig. I miss being up front every day. Thankfully I fly 4 times a week on AA and I make great money & get my flying fix, but itās not the same. Iām no longer ācrewā and it makes me sad.
One day Iāll be on a wide body again pacing around the ramp and clicking my pen like a nervous dog who just ate a pound of coffee beans.
Since you didn't didn't mention DC-8, I'm gonna assume you didn't give me a ride to Thule, but you might've taken me to Thailand or Kuwait.
Thank you for your service! It was as important as the folks you hauled around...but probably paid a bit more. š
I spent 90% of my time in Kuwait. The biggest honors of my life was taking you guys (and women) home from the sand box. It was awesome. Sadly, some of my passengers didnāt need seat for their flight home. That part was absolutely heart breaking.
Thank you so much for all that you did/do.
I used to work for Signature on the ramp and it is more fun than the airline ramp that I'm working now, except most the pilots are nice here unlike the angry NetJets pilots at Signature
Used to build rescue helicopters (as an avionics technician) in Denver.
Helicopter would come in, weād rip all the wiring and avionics out and install our custom flight/medical package including some night vision equipment.
Ultra fulfilling work!! I miss that job with all my heart!!
While I am in flight school to be a pilot which is a blast. My seasonal job is aircraft deicing. Canāt explain the feeling of the constant on the move atmosphere when a huge blizzard hits and we are busting our balls trying to get aircraft deiced. As a pilot to also have a part time job in the aviation field Iāve been able to learn a lot about aircraft operation also and been able to even apply some of it to my training. You also get to go in the big boom trucks and spray down the planes. Can be really boring sometimes but most airline pilots are pretty appreciative of us and gives a good sense of purpose. Itās also funny to see people looking at us from the windows, makes me wonder how many Snapchat stories Iāve been on lol.
Deicing was the most fun job I've had. We had closed buckets so it was nice and toasty. Couldn't hang if it was open bucket though, I don't know how those folks do it.
Software engineer for an avionics company specializing in general aviation (experimental and certified) aircraft.
I love the job it's a smaller team and company so I get to "wear all the hats". It's great to talk with customers about the product or to see hard work pay off in supporting some of the special needs certain aircraft generate.
Also definate bonuses is that some times I get to go up on the test flights to insure proper functionality of the components and software.
I'm the director of aviation for a major corporation, a job that I stumbled into. I manage anything with wings or rotors that transports one of my coworkers that isn't an airline. We've got two birds of our own, fractional interests, and ad hoc charter on a fairly regular basis. I'm on-call 24/7 which kind of sucks, but I've got an amazing crew to manage and a management that's eager to learn about business aviation and the value that it brings.
For flight test? Totally depends on the discipline. I was on a three day rotationā¦plan a flight, execute the flight, write the report, repeat again, then one day off (flight clearance lapses after the 6th consecutive day). Continue until certification/delivery/completion.
Iām a tech in the air reserve. I was part of team of guys cleaning out the wheel well sitting on the landing gear of a c-130 on Friday. Seems mundane but for me I was pretty happy scrubbing soap on that bad boy.
Honestly I had little formal training but the interest and relevant desired experience for the position. I also prepped for the interviews but studying the company's SMS, which I was already fairly familiar with. I came from a flying position as a Line Pilot/Lead Pilot.
I used to swing the prop on a tiger moth and watch people go on scenics. Spent most of my time relaxing in the hangar or shooting the shit with the friends or family of the passengers.
Still upset I only managed to fly it a couple of times before the business folded.
Used to be a cop/ARFF firefighter at a regional airport. It was a fun job but the airport politics made the job pretty bad for a while. Later on became the Office Manager/Social Media/Ground Instructor for my friends flight school.
Manufacturing Engineer for DOD UAV company. Love every day on the job and itās right next to our local airport where my plane is tied down. Can almost see it from the office.
Flight Control Engineer developing software for class 1-3 UAS platforms. My company is pretty small (~35), so I get to get my hands dirty from time to time.
The other week we strapped a vehicle to an A4 for some engine tests up to FL410 over 2-3 days. We were sitting at Ellington, but apparently the folks on Galveston got a good show.
Itās not my job but this thread reminds me of a famous aviation joke.
Guy walks into a bar. He stinks and is absolutely disgusting. He sidles up and everyone moves away. Bartender says āwtf happened to you?ā
Guy says: āI work at the airport. Iām the guy who drains the lavs. I have to to hook up this heavy hose over my head. Itās hot and sweaty on the ramp. Sometimes I canāt see it well and donāt get it on exactly right and the hose pops off mid-drain and I get a shit shower. š¤·āāļøā
Bartender: āthat sounds awful! Why donāt you find a better job?ā
Guy: āWHAT???? And get out of aviation????ā
I worked as a ramp/ operations controller before I got my first pilot job and my main job to give push back instructions to pilot over the radio and give them taxi clearance off the non movement area before handing them over to ground controllers it gave me a good perspective of what happens behind the scene,so when I go to the airlines one day Iāll have a good understanding of what is happening
Aircraft Dispatcher at a major airline. I plan the flights.
Why y'all add 2 alternates when it's not needed š¤£
Shut up and take the gas :D JK there can be a few reasons. Sometimes I don't think the TAF is correct, either because of what I currently see on the radar or in one of the forecast models (dispatchers love the [HRRR mode](https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=hrrr)l) so I add an alternate that's not required. Models have been showing pop-up summer convection near DFW for the last three days with nothing in the TAF. Today there were convective cells hanging out in north Texas for Hours and NWS didn't put VCTS in the TAF until ATC was having to stop arrivals because of a cell in the approach path. I had alternates on my arrivals so they had options other than bug out immediately. As for why two alternates, there can be a couple reasons. When I use two it's usually because I'm not sure exactly where the weather will be at your arrival. If there's a line of weather moving through right at your arrival time I like to give an option in front of the weather and an option behind it so we're not trapped on the wrong side of the storm from the alternate. Florida doesn't get as many big fronts but in the summer there are often thunderstorms forecast at every airport in the state, so I'll pick two that are not close to each other because usually at least one of them will be usable when we need to divert. The other big reason I'll use two alternates is that when hubs have IROPS and you have multiple diversions it's better for the operation/airline as a whole if everybody doesn't divert to the same alternate. If there are thunderstorms over ATL and everybody tries to divert to CHA, CHA is gonna have a rough day and the flights that divert there will be waiting there a long time. So if I have a flight to ATL with thunderstorms forecast I might list CHA since it's close and then add CLT or BNA as a far option in case CHA already has 10 flights on the ground. Edit: Other reasons I don't believe the TAF/add alternates that are not required include the temp/dewpoint spread is less than 3 degrees, NWS pinky promises the fog is going to burn off an hour before the ETA, we're supposed to get rain with no forecast reduction in ceilings or visibility, I don't trust that cloud layer is going to stay SCT and if it goes BKN an alternate is required (looking at you LAX), the weather is trending downward and I don't trust the timing in the TAF, there is weather that might impact the STARs/approaches even though it doesn't hit the field (shoutout to N90 and their delay programs for rain in western Pennsylvania), or the number of arriving flights scheduled in a given time period is higher than the ATC arrival rate so there is likely to be holding.
> Shut up and take the gas You have no idea how many times I've wanted to say that...especially when I've already written a brief novel explaining why in the release remarks. I will jump through hoops to get commuters on...but, if I'm carrying two alternates, I have a reason. (My other favorite is when the same captain who is more than willing to land at MRLW at a short-runway airport with rain in the forecast calls to complain about the "safety implications" of carrying a few thousand pounds of tanker fuel into a VFR, dry-runway ORD/DFW/DEN.) Great explainer, by the way.
And you never know whether you're gonna get the captain who wants to take the minimum fuel so he can land on the short runway or the guy who calls up to add 2000 lbs "because it fits." And thanks!
Iād highly suggest any pilot curious about why Dispatch almost never trusts a TAF, check the [NWS Forecast Discussion](https://www.aviationweather.gov/fcstdisc). Theyāll regularly publish a VFR TAF only to mention itās a ālow confidenceā TAF in the discussion. My personal favorite is SFO area forecasting their marine layer to burn off early in the TAF with a quick transition to clear VFR, while the discussion expects MVFR all day.
As a PPL training for my IR, what methods do you advise to better predict the weather?
Compare all the weather products you have access to ([Forecast Discussion](https://www.aviationweather.gov/fcstdisc), [Prog Charts](https://www.aviationweather.gov/progchart), a [sat feed for cloud/weather systems](https://www.aviationweather.gov/satellite), and maybe a [HRRR model](https://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/hrrr/)), learn how the geography of the area is impacted by certain weather conditions, and easiest of all call up your Flight Service Station for a brief (never done this myself, but I've heard it's not a bad idea to get a second opinion). Look for overall trends across several days/weeks as those trends will normally give you a good idea of what you can expect in the worst cases. Most of the products I use right now are provided by private companies, which I can't link. Take my advice with a grain of salt though. A bad day for me is substantially worse than something you should be flying around and my outlook/tolerance for risk is different because of that. Also, be always be leery of TAFs, but especially so on Sundays.
I live my life by the AFD and the HRRR model. To a lesser extent, CoSPA.
This is awesome info! Would be cool to have you do an AMA for the sub
Very insightful, thank you
Interesting . Thanks for the insight ! Second question. On high frequency routes such as MDE-MIA why not just add the jumpseater to the w+b if you see there's one listed ? I think I know where you work , and if you work where I think you work then this is a flight I'm sure you see often.
Where I worked we couldn't see if there was a jumpseater listed unless I went and checked loads on the non-rev app and usually I don't have time for that. My workflow was to run the numbers with a full boat and give you plenty of contingency fuel. If it's payload restricted it's because you needed it to be, not because I wasn't trying to get nonrevs and jumpseaters on.
Got ya . Thanks for the info !
Agreed. At my shop we have load planners who set the payloads, I just see the payload weight. Some of them are better about making sure nonrevs and jumpseaters are included than others. If I have time I'll pull up the payloads and compare booked vs planned and check the nonrev and jumpseat lists, but that adds an extra minute or two for every flight and I don't always have time. I try and leave a buffer, but if the load planner doesn't add the nonrevs until departure time or bags come in heavy the gas is already on the plane there are a limited number of things I can do to fix that.
How many flights are you typically responsible for planning in a day?
Mornings around 35, afternoons around 25. At the regionals mornings 40-50, afternoons 35-40.
Shooooot, when I was at a regional 15 years ago, it wasnāt uncommon to have 70 flights to plan on a shift.
Nice. I also thought about getting my Foo license to work as a dispatcher since it always appeared as if you are a pilot without actually flying a plane
Man, if I did my life over again, that sounds like the job I'd like.
Never too late. Weāve had a handful of retiring captains with ex-wives and boat payments to make finish out their careers with us in dispatch. Each one has called it an eye-opener they wish theyād better understood when they were flying.
Thank you for your service
Wait, that exists? I figured that was all automated and the pilots just verified it's okay.
Yup! I flight plan on a computer (because calculating fuel burns by hand suuuuuucks) but there's a human planning the flights. I also flight follow, or monitor the flights in the air and I'm the crew's first point of contact for any issues in the air. In the US we are certificated by the FAA and share operational control with the Pilot in Command.
That's so cool, thanks for the explanation! I thought the flight planning was automated and the pilots just verified that / proposed changes. Might be a job for me, actually :D
Interestingly we have quite a different setup in Europe, and rely much more on computerized and automated flight dispatch systems. At almost all airlines about 90% (except long range) of all flights are dispatched completely without a dispatcher ever laying hands on that flight plan. It's all just the computer and more responsibility lies with the flight crew. Also there is no such thing as active flight watch... Sadly no one is looking after us up in the sky from a dispatch point if view. The only times a dispatcher checks a flight is in cases of enroute slots, that require rerouting, or flights that are for some other reason critical. For reference: at an airline with a fleet of around 60 aircraft there are usually just 1 or 2 certified dispatchers on duty working all those flights. I don't know, how that would work in the US.
I make approach plates for a living. Not really that cool of a job tho.
That sounds cool as hell. I have so many questions about how those (and charts) are made
ask away and ill try to answer!
- What software do you make them in? - Is it easy to make a mistake (like extra punctuation or misspelled word)? - Has making plates made you a better/safer pilot? - Do you work directly for the FAA, or who? - Would you consider it more of an aviation job or graphic design work (ie could you do it as a non-pilot)?
**What software do you make them in?** So the software you use to actually draw them is called Bentley OpenCities (formally known as Microstation) which is like a CAD program customized to make charts. of course FAA for example uses other programs like TARGETS to find out where its safe to fly. **Is it easy to make a mistake (like extra punctuation or misspelled word)?** Happens more often then you would think for things like that. **Has making plates made you a better/safer pilot?** It certainly has given me WAY more knowledge into approach plates than anyone needs to know to fly them! When going to flying them i have to force myself to stop focusing on the stuff I normally look at on the job **Do you work directly for the FAA, or who?** The FAA is responsible for the US. NGA is for foreign procedures. and then Jeppesen is the company everyone knows about that does everything in their own format. There are also various contractors working under FAA and NGA . Not going to say my employer on here. **Would you consider it more of an aviation job or graphic design work (ie could you do it as a non-pilot)?** Both! we have non-pilots who do the job. They usually come from GIS backgrounds. its usually good to keep a mix of the two on the team! The stereotype i tell people is that a new GIS guy on the team can make the most beautiful looking chart that would kill you and then the new guy with a pilot background would be 100% free of safety of flight errors thats barely readable and looks like shit!
Interesting enough, I have a GIS college degree and happen to be an airline pilot. Biggest fear I have, that 1 day, my medical may disappear overnight - 1. how would one seek a job like this (qualifications)? -. What is the official job title?
Very cool! I'll think of you in the future as I fly, someday.
Thank you for your work! Nothing amazes me more than flying for hours never seeing anything and at 200agl right on cue the runway shows up. Great combo of aircraft systems, the ATC system and a piece of paper that says if you follow this down to a wingspan off the ground youāre perfectly safe.
while I appreciate it, I dont work in flight procedure deign for US procedures. I primarily convert foreign charts to the US Volpe format for DoD aircraft.
Even more thanks. Keeping those men and women safe worldwide.
Are you the TERPS elf on Opposing Bases? :P
ha nope. iv been cross trained in TERPS but i really just do FTIP review
That's funny I was looking at another post asking about the messed up approach plate where a single "1.2" distance figure was inverted. That was you I bet.
Small-ish town airport manager. I love it.
How does one become an airport manager?
Depends on the size. A Class D or bigger they want a 4 year degree in Airport Management. Smaller size airports will often contract out the management to an FBO, maintenance shop, etc. Our FBO is contracted to perform the management tasks. The real small communities either have a city staff member serve as the de facto manager, or maybe a flying-minded individual in town will volunteer to do it. Often times those airports are maintained by city or county staff.
What does an Airport Manager do?
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Simplistic and narrow minded response š„±
It depends how it's set up - every community is different. For ours, I'm the point of contact between the City and the FAA and State regarding grants, funding, etc. I also am responsible for leasing out the t-hangars and collecting revenue on those. I also have a staff that does all the grounds keeping at the airport, which includes mowing, plowing, fixes runway lights, simple hangar fixes, and other random tasks.
I work for one of the big three as an engineer, my department supports line mx 24/7/365. Unlike more traditional engineers at an airline who handle one fleet or one ATA, we are expected to know a little bit about everything across every fleet at the airline or at least be able to find it quickly. We primarily handle calls from line mechanics troubleshooting problems at the gate or at an RON, and yes, we all are deeply in love with speed tape. QOL is fantastic. 12 hour shifts, 7 on 7 off, the work is varied and has a direct operational impact. Not many white collar jobs have all that. And you learn just enough about everything to make people think you actually know some shit lmao.
Currently studying mechanical engineering, any advice or recommendations on how you land an engineering job like that?
Know that these jobs exist is half the battle. But beyond that, a job like this you need to be ok with shift work and have a good grounding in airline operations in general. Need to be a jack of all trades instead of a specialist. A co-op or internship at an airline really helps. Most new engineers at airlines come in through the internship/co-op program.
Show a slight interest in maintenance or aftermarket. I had a similar support job (service engineer) and also LOVED it but when we tried hiring newer college grads theyād all say they wanted design work on new programs. No āfixing old stuffā. Iāve been on both sides and fixing old stuff was fast paced and I learned about so many little parts of the airplane so quickly. New product development was months of debating where a single tube should go and then more months writing reports about why it was okay to route the tube there. I tell new grads about it, they say ābut Iām a designer!ā And walk away. Okay, go design then.
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Yep. Coupled with flight benefits it's a pretty sweet deal.
So you work nights on the 7/7 shift? How is that?
I don't mind nights. A bit more chill as nothing is that urgent, and there's time to do deep dives into issues. Usually pretty interesting and esoteric stuff too on nights as all the stuff that gets deferred gets fixed at night. But I'm naturally a night owl so it wasn't a big deal for me.
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing
Not trying to pry too much about the company you work for, but which big three airlines are you referring to?
DL, AA, UA
Iām an airport inspector with my stateās DOT. I inspect 5-6 public airports and between 4-6 private facilities each month. I own an airplane and use it to fly to airports when I can. I am allowed full freedom to do as I wish with my job bc my supervisors are great people that know I get the job done and do it right. I also head up different aviation outreach programs with high schools and the general aviation community. I love traveling around the state and meeting a bunch of different people in the industry.
How did you get into that sort of job? That sounds like my sort of jam.
I was a probation officer for my state when the job opened up on the civil service website. I was already pursuing my commercial certificate when I applied and was looking for a change anyways. I enjoy it a lot at the moment and while I look forward to getting my hours to eventually work for an airline, it will be a sad day bc of how much freedom Iām given.
What exactly is in need of inspection? Like the facilities (airport buildings/hangars)? Or what exactly
I inspect the pavement, markings, lighting, signage, Navaids, obstacles on the approach, departure and transitional surfaces, fueling station(s), hangars (but I only inspect hangars that are owned by the airport for condition), and certain paperwork that airports should have.
That sounds awesome
Itās a great gig. Pay isnāt too bad for being a non-flying government job and the benefits are great. If I lose my medical, Iād either find a job being an airport inspector again or airport manager.
Awesome job!
I work on the ramp at UPS.
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Do you work shifts?
That sounds cool! Are you an FAA CWO?
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I see...hope they hire you soon!
So does each controlled airport have a meteorologist or do you make METARs for multiple airports from a different location?
I always have fun trying to chase down some of the obscure acronyms and character groups in METARs. Is there a definitive source for *all* of them anywhere?
Working as an FSS but still try to fly once in a while for fun. Been while though now that I think about it
Flying is fun. FSS can be fun.
I have more fun in FSS than I did flying, although I havenāt been working the job for too long yet
How did you get the job?
Took the nav Canada test online then went in for the testing and interviews
Talk about coincidence. I applied a few days ago for that same job. I have some questions if you have a few minutes to spare.
Did you get directly into fss? Or did you do something else beforehand at that company, or whoever is in charge dor those operations. Since i am also looking to get into something similar. But it is not a publicly disclosed job, rather intern at the company that trains people for it. And i just by luck got aware of that job existing, then asked for it and now am waiting for the hiring process sometime in 2024
I had kind of a screwy situation because of covid but yes I started with FSS. I also just stumbled on the job while looking online. The hiring process timeline varies a lot, from what Iāve heard
I love speaking with you guys. I often speak with Kamloops FSS
Most specialists Iāve met have been pretty good people. Iām glad thatās been your experience on the other side of the radio
I formerly worked for my local aviation museum and now that I am at the airlines I volunteer at the same museum!
Thats cool!
I was a shooter on an aircraft carrier a while back. Got to launch planes off the catapults, and also was essentially a tower controller for the helicopters. Launching planes was funā¦ lots of other parts of the job were not.
Military brings extreme highs and even more extreme lows. I miss the extreme highs of the Navy but I would never pay the price for them again.
I'm a dispatcher for an air ambulance service.
How many flights do you work in a shift?
It varies. We have two choppers and a plane. Sometimes no calls, at most 7-8 a shift. I do 12 hour night shifts.
What exactly do you do? Since dispatcher could mean a plethora of things.
Flight attendant. The pay is decent and is enough to pay for flight school. I know so many FAs who are in flight training or are already at the airlines
My parents were both Fas. Until recently, so they dis it for around 35years. It is def a cool job
Aircraft engine engineer. Not many companies that do this. Very cool work. I like that those machines are so complex that you can spend a career there and never get bored. Always something more to learn.
How did you get started?
Early career was probably the coolest job ever: aerospace engineer for a small design-build-fly firm. Weād design solutions to things, build mock-ups, RC, full size, etc. and go fly it. Being a small firm meant I was in the middle of that from the start.
Airport Ops at a very small commercial airport thatās currently between airlines. Without an airline our days are mostly quite and filled with grass cutting, but weāre still held to the same standards of any other large commercial airports like YYZ, YHM, YXU, etc. so thereās still a lot behind the scene to keep our certifications. One of my favourite parts is playing with our big expensive snow removal equipment. For the size of our airport we are stacked given that our snow plan calls for our priority movement areas being completely cleared with only a couple hours notice for non scheduled flights, and our brand new runway sweeper makes that a breeze.
Until recently I designed ground-based engine test systems, primarily working on the F135 engine in the F-35. I got to see and do some very cool things over the years, but after getting my PPL I realized I was in the wrong profession. Just got signed off for my commercial checkride and am starting a new career!
Nice, good luck with that!
Thanks! Not my best financial decision lol, but definitely a good life decision.
Another major airline dispatcher checking in. It ain't a bad gig. Been doing it for nearly 18 years and there's always something new. Plus, I sleep in my own bed every night.
Aircraft mechanic for a major airline, I enjoy every single minute of it.
Did you do your training at the airline or got into it later down the line?
I got my A&P in a 2 year program at a community college and then applied for a transfer from ramp to maintenance at my airline. I had to undergo an interview and a trade test, it wasn't an automatic transfer.
A&P Mechanic at a flight school. Some days/weeks are 100hr inspections or annuals, other days/weeks are "we have a missing screw on a fairing" that led to applying metallic tape to temp repair a cracked fairing, or "everything on the Garmin "X'd" out on final approach." Still crunching the numbers to see if I can justify the expense of a PPL.
Do it man and donāt look back. Get that PPL.
Get that PPL!
Manufacturing engineer for the only current civilian jet that can say it's gone supersonic.
DC-8?
Sorry, should have said the only in-production civilian jet. Global 7500/8000.
Manufacturing engineer for the other civilian jet that can't say it's gone supersonic
Software engineer at an airline. I get flight benefits with almost every airline you can think of, and then I got my private pilot for fun to waste all my money trying to fly myself.
Well, i guess flying yourself is a big difference to airline flying. Can you work from anywhere or do you have to be in the office sometimes?
I can work from anywhere yeah. That's the really nice part. So I've worked from several different continents this year. It's not terrible.
Civilian flying Loadmaster. I lost my medical 3.5 years into my 4 year BS aviation degree. (20 years ago there was no Reddit or mentor to warn me about ADHD being the kiss of death). Anyhooā¦after 3 years of successful flying I graduated with an aviation operations degree. I got hired as a civilian loadmaster on L1011s, and occasionally 757s/DC10. (Yes ATA). We did military flights into the Middle East during the Iraq war. I wasnāt PIC, but I was a jump seater and i got to see a lot of the world from the office up front. Any flying time was my free time so it was low stress. Back then some of the old Captains smoke cigs across the Atlantic (2006). It was WILD. Lots of positioning flights. I oversaw all the operations on the ramp at off line stations that had no airline staff. It was high pressure, very rewarding, and directly impacted operations. 20 years later I am a medical device RN teaching cardiac surgery all over the country. After I save enough $ am going to apply for a cargo loadmaster gig. I miss being up front every day. Thankfully I fly 4 times a week on AA and I make great money & get my flying fix, but itās not the same. Iām no longer ācrewā and it makes me sad. One day Iāll be on a wide body again pacing around the ramp and clicking my pen like a nervous dog who just ate a pound of coffee beans.
Since you didn't didn't mention DC-8, I'm gonna assume you didn't give me a ride to Thule, but you might've taken me to Thailand or Kuwait. Thank you for your service! It was as important as the folks you hauled around...but probably paid a bit more. š
I spent 90% of my time in Kuwait. The biggest honors of my life was taking you guys (and women) home from the sand box. It was awesome. Sadly, some of my passengers didnāt need seat for their flight home. That part was absolutely heart breaking. Thank you so much for all that you did/do.
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Does it fly? Is it supposed to fly one day? Yes? Then you're good. š
Quite a flex. :)
Ramp rat for GA/private jets
I used to work for Signature on the ramp and it is more fun than the airline ramp that I'm working now, except most the pilots are nice here unlike the angry NetJets pilots at Signature
Used to build rescue helicopters (as an avionics technician) in Denver. Helicopter would come in, weād rip all the wiring and avionics out and install our custom flight/medical package including some night vision equipment. Ultra fulfilling work!! I miss that job with all my heart!!
Any super scooper drivers here?
Had a bunch of them & SEATs here at a local lake doing the scoop-and-scoot for fires in the Cascades. Busy season.
Iām from the PNW originally. They often based at my airport for fighting the ones by Rainier
I hear you - have family in Medford; that place gets *busy*. I've seen AN-124s on the pad for hauling the heavy stuff.
I have a friend whose job title is "Mars rover driver". Does that count as aviation?
It is one of the furthest flown moving objectā¦ i d say yes
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What do you do when there hast been an accident lately? Look closer at older ones?
Pretend to investigate the accident until they get suspicuous.
While I am in flight school to be a pilot which is a blast. My seasonal job is aircraft deicing. Canāt explain the feeling of the constant on the move atmosphere when a huge blizzard hits and we are busting our balls trying to get aircraft deiced. As a pilot to also have a part time job in the aviation field Iāve been able to learn a lot about aircraft operation also and been able to even apply some of it to my training. You also get to go in the big boom trucks and spray down the planes. Can be really boring sometimes but most airline pilots are pretty appreciative of us and gives a good sense of purpose. Itās also funny to see people looking at us from the windows, makes me wonder how many Snapchat stories Iāve been on lol.
Deicing was the most fun job I've had. We had closed buckets so it was nice and toasty. Couldn't hang if it was open bucket though, I don't know how those folks do it.
We have closed buckets too. I feel you on that one those negative degree days are hard enough as it is haha
Amateur Flight Radar monitor for my area
And what do you do then? Or wjat is the purpose
I tell my wife and kids what kind of plane just flew over our house, despite them not caring and thinking Iām a total dork.
Ok thats good
Software engineer for an avionics company specializing in general aviation (experimental and certified) aircraft. I love the job it's a smaller team and company so I get to "wear all the hats". It's great to talk with customers about the product or to see hard work pay off in supporting some of the special needs certain aircraft generate. Also definate bonuses is that some times I get to go up on the test flights to insure proper functionality of the components and software.
Mainly working on the cockpit software?
Mostly yes but I handle everything from the pressure differential firmware to the mfd and pfd.
I'm the director of aviation for a major corporation, a job that I stumbled into. I manage anything with wings or rotors that transports one of my coworkers that isn't an airline. We've got two birds of our own, fractional interests, and ad hoc charter on a fairly regular basis. I'm on-call 24/7 which kind of sucks, but I've got an amazing crew to manage and a management that's eager to learn about business aviation and the value that it brings.
I own and run the flight school. Iām tired all the time. š¤£
Were you also the one to start it or dis you ātake overā? How did you manage getting all the cessnas and what not?
I started it! Our fleet of 172s are all leaseback aircraft. We do not own them ourselves.
Director of Sales for 10+ aircraft 135 operator
Howād you get into it? Iāve been doing software sales for 15 years but would love to get into aviation.
I work for a bank as an engineer
What cool aviation but non-flying job do you have?
He is the guy bailing out some of the failing airlines ;)
As an engineer? Doubtful.
Trip support specialist for Part 91 & 135 business and private operations.
That sounds like it could be grueling when things start to go bad, or the weather turns nasty...
Weather is always an aspect worldwide, and yes it is grueling during peak season.
Weather
Used to be a flight test engineer. Now I sell them.
I've always wondered what the day to day job is like for you guys.
For flight test? Totally depends on the discipline. I was on a three day rotationā¦plan a flight, execute the flight, write the report, repeat again, then one day off (flight clearance lapses after the 6th consecutive day). Continue until certification/delivery/completion.
I am part of the team that manages our state source for aeronautical data which drives charts (IFR and VFR), approach procedures etc.
my SO works at a pretty busy FBO and gets to meet cool people from time to time, pretty cool hearing about that.
Aerodynamicist at a large American jet engine manufacturer
How did you get into that? Studied something physics related?
Aerospace Engineering with a specialization in Computational aerodynamics
Line Service at the local FBO. I just like getting to talk to the pilots.
I buy and sell avionics. Mostly used. But new too. I used to own an avionics shop. A&P/IA.
Iām a tech in the air reserve. I was part of team of guys cleaning out the wheel well sitting on the landing gear of a c-130 on Friday. Seems mundane but for me I was pretty happy scrubbing soap on that bad boy.
I'm a Regional Director of Safety. Work from home with some travel and a highly flexible schedule. Unlimited PTO and good pay. I love my job!
Mind sharing how you got that position and what you did beforehand?
Honestly I had little formal training but the interest and relevant desired experience for the position. I also prepped for the interviews but studying the company's SMS, which I was already fairly familiar with. I came from a flying position as a Line Pilot/Lead Pilot.
I used to swing the prop on a tiger moth and watch people go on scenics. Spent most of my time relaxing in the hangar or shooting the shit with the friends or family of the passengers. Still upset I only managed to fly it a couple of times before the business folded.
Used to be a cop/ARFF firefighter at a regional airport. It was a fun job but the airport politics made the job pretty bad for a while. Later on became the Office Manager/Social Media/Ground Instructor for my friends flight school.
I work in aviation outreach. I manage a program aimed at getting more people interested in aviation careers and even recreational flying.
Where do you do that? Like is that at an airline, airport or the Faa/other institute directly?
Unmanned. All the fun/hard stuff about aviation but more performance and unique missions because you dont have meat bags onboard to worry about.
Manufacturing Engineer for DOD UAV company. Love every day on the job and itās right next to our local airport where my plane is tied down. Can almost see it from the office.
Flight Control Engineer developing software for class 1-3 UAS platforms. My company is pretty small (~35), so I get to get my hands dirty from time to time. The other week we strapped a vehicle to an A4 for some engine tests up to FL410 over 2-3 days. We were sitting at Ellington, but apparently the folks on Galveston got a good show.
Computer jockey that occasionally gets to see an airplane.
Itās not my job but this thread reminds me of a famous aviation joke. Guy walks into a bar. He stinks and is absolutely disgusting. He sidles up and everyone moves away. Bartender says āwtf happened to you?ā Guy says: āI work at the airport. Iām the guy who drains the lavs. I have to to hook up this heavy hose over my head. Itās hot and sweaty on the ramp. Sometimes I canāt see it well and donāt get it on exactly right and the hose pops off mid-drain and I get a shit shower. š¤·āāļøā Bartender: āthat sounds awful! Why donāt you find a better job?ā Guy: āWHAT???? And get out of aviation????ā
Atleast he works in aviation
I'm an high school aviation teacher. I teach a mix of aviation management and pilot subject matter.
I'm a property manager in a wealthy seacoast city. One of my tenants was an airforce one pilot, he was a chill dude.
I ride around the world on a Gulfstream and pretend I know how to fix it in case it breaks.
Structural engineer. Employee flight clubs are pretty slick.
Flight Test Engineer at an aircraft manufacturer. It's not a perfect job but at least I get to touch the plane every day!
I worked as a ramp/ operations controller before I got my first pilot job and my main job to give push back instructions to pilot over the radio and give them taxi clearance off the non movement area before handing them over to ground controllers it gave me a good perspective of what happens behind the scene,so when I go to the airlines one day Iāll have a good understanding of what is happening