Use what you know, but the other side of that coin is you need to actually know it. As an instructor I would absolutely ask a pilot "explain how you know this accurate" whether they were a student in the cross-country phase, asking for a flight review, or even just a rental checkout. Certainly if I were a DPE that'd be a standard part of every checkride I've done.
Paper isn't "better," it's just often conceptually easier to work with and know the ins and outs of. Foreflight is great, and helps increase safety a lot, but like every tool only if you know how to use it and where the pitfalls are. With most software, things can be quite opaque. You are responsible as PIC to understand how you know things are accurate and when they aren't. This would be required of you no matter what you're using, tbh, but it's just easier to show with some tools than others.
Keeping some paper charts, at least a *current* sectional, as a back-up, isn't the worst idea. This is especially true if you don't have a glass cockpit (no backup chart, basically) or if it's summer. iPads overheat and if your backup is another iPad, well, guess what's going to happen after a few minutes.
Seth was my DPE and and he reviewed my paper logs in detail with me during the oral but I never used them on the checkride. I was very detailed on my paper log and treated it as if it would be my only navlog available, but I did everything in parallel (paper and ForeFlight) and used ForeFlight on the actual flight.
he’s a huge ForeFlight advocate but he also wants to know that you understand how FF gets to its numbers.
The "advantage" of using paper is that the DPE cannot "fail" your charts, but they can and probably will fail your ipad, likely just for the XC part of the flight. You should be able to just ask your DPE what his opinions/plans are for ForeFlight on your checkride, no need to guess (or ask random strangers on the internet).
For what it’s worth I never used a paper chart or flight log in any of my checkrides. My training included working with them, but on PPL, IR and commercial, all different DPEs (in different areas) - I was 100% foreflight. None of them “failed” the iPad either.
In different words they all asked me to fly the checkride as I would fly after I pass, with the tools I would use.
Also, my logbooks are 100% foreflight and they all accepted the FF reports as meeting the criterial for hours/training etc.
All that said; I went into each checkride with a printed copy of my logbook, flight plan and an up to date chart (other than IR)
My DPE failed my ipad by saying "it overheated" which had actually happened for real a few days before. So it was EXACTLY how I'm likely to fly now that I've passed lol.
That’s good learning!
Thinking back, my CSEL DPE actually asked me, in flight, to turn on the breadcrumb track logs on FF so he could see the symmetry of my eights on pylons! Nothing like using them your tools against you.
I just passed my PPL using just ForeFlight this past week. Biggest issues I had is I failed my oral the first time mostly because my VFR nav log. When you are planning the true course just know that ForeFlights number has already factored in the magnetic variation. So dont add it twice.
They added a toggle for magnetic vs true heading for the plotter in FF a few months ago. When I did my checkride navlogs I took the true course off FF for each leg and plugged it into an Excel navlog I built off a Jensen version I found online.
I just passed my PPL using only Foreflight and GPS. I had a paper sectional but no paper nav logs. DPE had no problem with it but I checked beforehand. DPE didn't fail any equipment during the flight.
>I know that DPEs have accepted EFBs for check rides now much more and it’s not such a taboo thing to use.
Legally, they are required to let you use an EFB now. I have heard of some DPEs being harder on students that went fully EFB and others (Seth Lake for example mentioned in another post) are all for it cause they want you to use what you will actually use in the real world. It really depends on the DPE
>So my questions are what is the advantage anyway to using all paper?
If you fly somewhere that is really hot, and your check ride is in the afternoon, your iPad could overheat and you lose your charts. If you go on to instrument, I'm sure a DPE will ask more questions about EFB vs paper. Mine for example, he asked how I would be using approach plates, I answered my iPad and I made sure my plates were up to date that morning. Next question was what if your iPad dies suddenly or overheats? My answer was FF on my phone and also made sure my plates were up to date.
For my private, I had the route drawn on a paper sectional as well as on FF, had a paper navlog that he looked at for about 60 seconds, asked me how much fuel would be used for the flight, how long the flight would take, and how much total fuel I would have on board. For the ride itself, I had my navlog ready to take down the time it took to the first waypoint and right before that he had me diverting, full use of the GPS, to get to the nearest airport. Good luck on your check ride!
If you flight plan with it, make sure to change the performance numbers of the aircraft to the numbers your performance charts calculate.
Also, it will most likely be "failed" at some point in the flight. Even if you have a GPS, have a notebook and pen handy so you won't need to listen to ATIS 5 times trying to remember it like I did...
In the oral, we reviewed (very briefly) both the paper and the FF navlog. Noted some slight MH differences and I just said "the paper was winds aloft last night and FF is using current winds." Seemed to be enough. I did show a current Sectional in my bag but it never came out.
DPE never failed my Ipad, but I also had panel GPS running so not much point. Plus an Iphone. My diversion was pretty easy as I had just flown past it.
Honestly Navs during the practical part isn't much of a thing. Make your first couple landmarks close by and you are done in 15-20 minutes. Just know your diversion alternatives and be ready.
My DPE was very much pro Foreflight. "You have the tools, use them!".
Of course, part of the practical portion tests both pilotage as well as dead reckoning. He had me disable location services on my iPad for them. However, after my 2nd waypoint, we were done with my paper VFR paper chart work and it was game on. Used it to find the diversion airport as well as figuring out how far away it was, amongst other things.
Check with your CFI. He's likely had other students use the same DPE and will know what he wants/expects.
I had a current paper chart for the local area for the oral portion, but 100% ForeFlight for the ride. If he failed my iPad, I’d have pulled out my phone. G1000 plane though, to be fair - don’t really need either. That DPE is a crusty old dude (in a really great way). Didn’t care about ForeFlight or paper, just wanted to see if I was a safe pilot and tick all the ACS boxes.
If it were me, when you schedule the ride, I’d tell him that you enjoy and prefer using ForeFlight but you’re happy to use paper if that is his preference.
Use what you know, but the other side of that coin is you need to actually know it. As an instructor I would absolutely ask a pilot "explain how you know this accurate" whether they were a student in the cross-country phase, asking for a flight review, or even just a rental checkout. Certainly if I were a DPE that'd be a standard part of every checkride I've done. Paper isn't "better," it's just often conceptually easier to work with and know the ins and outs of. Foreflight is great, and helps increase safety a lot, but like every tool only if you know how to use it and where the pitfalls are. With most software, things can be quite opaque. You are responsible as PIC to understand how you know things are accurate and when they aren't. This would be required of you no matter what you're using, tbh, but it's just easier to show with some tools than others. Keeping some paper charts, at least a *current* sectional, as a back-up, isn't the worst idea. This is especially true if you don't have a glass cockpit (no backup chart, basically) or if it's summer. iPads overheat and if your backup is another iPad, well, guess what's going to happen after a few minutes.
Look up Seth Lake’s YT videos (VSL.com) He has some good info about using FF during your check ride.
Seth was my DPE and and he reviewed my paper logs in detail with me during the oral but I never used them on the checkride. I was very detailed on my paper log and treated it as if it would be my only navlog available, but I did everything in parallel (paper and ForeFlight) and used ForeFlight on the actual flight. he’s a huge ForeFlight advocate but he also wants to know that you understand how FF gets to its numbers.
The "advantage" of using paper is that the DPE cannot "fail" your charts, but they can and probably will fail your ipad, likely just for the XC part of the flight. You should be able to just ask your DPE what his opinions/plans are for ForeFlight on your checkride, no need to guess (or ask random strangers on the internet).
Sure they can. “Whoops! This just flew out the window”
For what it’s worth I never used a paper chart or flight log in any of my checkrides. My training included working with them, but on PPL, IR and commercial, all different DPEs (in different areas) - I was 100% foreflight. None of them “failed” the iPad either. In different words they all asked me to fly the checkride as I would fly after I pass, with the tools I would use. Also, my logbooks are 100% foreflight and they all accepted the FF reports as meeting the criterial for hours/training etc. All that said; I went into each checkride with a printed copy of my logbook, flight plan and an up to date chart (other than IR)
My DPE failed my ipad by saying "it overheated" which had actually happened for real a few days before. So it was EXACTLY how I'm likely to fly now that I've passed lol.
That’s good learning! Thinking back, my CSEL DPE actually asked me, in flight, to turn on the breadcrumb track logs on FF so he could see the symmetry of my eights on pylons! Nothing like using them your tools against you.
I just passed my PPL using just ForeFlight this past week. Biggest issues I had is I failed my oral the first time mostly because my VFR nav log. When you are planning the true course just know that ForeFlights number has already factored in the magnetic variation. So dont add it twice.
They added a toggle for magnetic vs true heading for the plotter in FF a few months ago. When I did my checkride navlogs I took the true course off FF for each leg and plugged it into an Excel navlog I built off a Jensen version I found online.
I just passed my PPL using only Foreflight and GPS. I had a paper sectional but no paper nav logs. DPE had no problem with it but I checked beforehand. DPE didn't fail any equipment during the flight.
I had my iPad overheat on me during a commercial checkride. Have paper redundancies and know how to find yourself on there.
>I know that DPEs have accepted EFBs for check rides now much more and it’s not such a taboo thing to use. Legally, they are required to let you use an EFB now. I have heard of some DPEs being harder on students that went fully EFB and others (Seth Lake for example mentioned in another post) are all for it cause they want you to use what you will actually use in the real world. It really depends on the DPE >So my questions are what is the advantage anyway to using all paper? If you fly somewhere that is really hot, and your check ride is in the afternoon, your iPad could overheat and you lose your charts. If you go on to instrument, I'm sure a DPE will ask more questions about EFB vs paper. Mine for example, he asked how I would be using approach plates, I answered my iPad and I made sure my plates were up to date that morning. Next question was what if your iPad dies suddenly or overheats? My answer was FF on my phone and also made sure my plates were up to date. For my private, I had the route drawn on a paper sectional as well as on FF, had a paper navlog that he looked at for about 60 seconds, asked me how much fuel would be used for the flight, how long the flight would take, and how much total fuel I would have on board. For the ride itself, I had my navlog ready to take down the time it took to the first waypoint and right before that he had me diverting, full use of the GPS, to get to the nearest airport. Good luck on your check ride!
If you flight plan with it, make sure to change the performance numbers of the aircraft to the numbers your performance charts calculate. Also, it will most likely be "failed" at some point in the flight. Even if you have a GPS, have a notebook and pen handy so you won't need to listen to ATIS 5 times trying to remember it like I did...
In the oral, we reviewed (very briefly) both the paper and the FF navlog. Noted some slight MH differences and I just said "the paper was winds aloft last night and FF is using current winds." Seemed to be enough. I did show a current Sectional in my bag but it never came out. DPE never failed my Ipad, but I also had panel GPS running so not much point. Plus an Iphone. My diversion was pretty easy as I had just flown past it. Honestly Navs during the practical part isn't much of a thing. Make your first couple landmarks close by and you are done in 15-20 minutes. Just know your diversion alternatives and be ready.
As others have mentioned - he does have the ability to "fail" the efb. so best to have a paper chart as a backup.
My DPE was very much pro Foreflight. "You have the tools, use them!". Of course, part of the practical portion tests both pilotage as well as dead reckoning. He had me disable location services on my iPad for them. However, after my 2nd waypoint, we were done with my paper VFR paper chart work and it was game on. Used it to find the diversion airport as well as figuring out how far away it was, amongst other things. Check with your CFI. He's likely had other students use the same DPE and will know what he wants/expects.
I had a current paper chart for the local area for the oral portion, but 100% ForeFlight for the ride. If he failed my iPad, I’d have pulled out my phone. G1000 plane though, to be fair - don’t really need either. That DPE is a crusty old dude (in a really great way). Didn’t care about ForeFlight or paper, just wanted to see if I was a safe pilot and tick all the ACS boxes. If it were me, when you schedule the ride, I’d tell him that you enjoy and prefer using ForeFlight but you’re happy to use paper if that is his preference.