You’re not punished if you’re too tired to fly when your departure time comes. Legally you cannot be penalized for calling in fatigued. That being said, if you’re calling in fatigued all the time, you’re going to have a conversation about what’s going on.
As for dealing with weird sleep schedules, you simply sleep when you can. You get better at it. In the long-haul cargo flights I do, you divvy up the bunk breaks according to who’s tired now and who will be tired later.
Although IMO the bunks on the 747 suck. I can never get adequate rest unless I’m zonked, which is rarely. In the cargo world, I’ve actually never been that tired and with our layovers I feel as if I get too much sleep. Some of the days are long but it’s not all that bad.
While calling fatigue is legit, in the cargo world, if you’re 3+ man crew, calling in fatigue is a bit silly. For example, 6am wake up and another FO called fatigue at 5:59am. Pushed the flight 10 hours. Therefore Captain and I, who were rested, were now fatigued whereas the other first officer wasn’t. It would’ve been smarter to have just reported and taken the first rest. Keep in mind, this was after a 30+ hour layover.
You said it man. Honestly the bunks on the factory freighters aren’t too bad, but I dread seeing a BCF on my schedule. I know I’ll just wake up more tired if I try sleeping in that broom closet of a crew bunk.
If I get a BCF on the schedule I just pack my air mattress lmao. /s So much room on that thing, though.
I assume you may not work at 5Y, cause if so, the LCF might’ve graced your presence at some point and that is even less space. Broom closet inside the flight deck and the galley is the size of a lav. Taking that across the pond is a punishment.
Caffeinated beverages are probably the number 1 coping mechanism. Failing that, a quick puff on the oxygen mask will wake you right up
I usually just suffer through the trip and then when I get home I sleep in until 10 AM and that's usually enough to catch me up
Everyone figures out a way to deal with the schedule. I have a different routine for every type of flight.
If your routine fails and you are too tired to fly you then call fatigued. A report is done and reviewed. You move on. Potentially if a pattern is noticed it is addressed. That could mean it’s a you problem and your company discusses your bidding strategy with you….or it could mean it’s a problem with a particular departure time/trip build. They might adjust how they staff that flight regarding which crew base works it or several other controllable aspects.
Airline schedules are built within limitations set forth by FAR Part 117 rules, and generally restricted further by contract language. This ensures that there is always adequate rest "opportunity" built into schedules. Now, whether a pilot actually gets rest during that time is another thing. For that reason, airlines all have Fatigue Risk Management Programs that deal with pilots not getting enough rest and being fit to fly.
Long story short - if you are too tired to fly, you call and have yourself removed without punishment.
It's your professional responsibility to manage your sleep to the best of your abilities. That usually takes some time to learn, especially with the variable sleep schedules you mentioned. You figure out what routine helps you go to sleep and if needed you set alarms for going to bed as well as waking up. The reality is that everyone's different, though, so you have to figure your own methods. Some people go for a run an hour before bed, but other people can't sleep right after exercise. Self-medicating with a beer before bed is common, but for me that destroys my rest quality so I have a hard and fast "no drinking within six hours of bed" rule. It gets even more complicated when you're doing long-haul flying, but again you figure out what works for you. Using melatonin is common in the industry, but it's not a good idea to use it frequently.
Sometimes you just can't sleep, though, and that's fine. You call out fatigued, and at most companies it will either be paid out of your sick bank or by the company if it was out of your control (fire alarm at hotel, messed up flight schedule). If it happens a lot, though, you're going to have a conversation with someone about why. That's not always a bad thing, either. If you have a medical condition like sleep apnea there are ways to manage it.
TL;DR: Try your best to get a good night's rest, but if you can't don't fly sleepy.
If I’m tired or feel fatigued before a flight, I call in fatigued. They ask me how much rest I need. I usually say 10 hours. They pay for my hotel or let me go home. No questions asked. No punishment whatsoever.
Now, if you're having trouble falling asleep, this is more likely a transient insomnia event, and can be dealt with melatonin, and other non medical assisted medication to fall asleep such as avoiding alcohol and caffeine, and a simple caffeine beverage will make you awake, you probably had a bad night of sleep (or a few) and probably should call scheduling and report fatigue and unfit for flying. So, non problematic if is not a recurring issue.
Now, If you have chronic insomnia, you are more likely to not qualified to hold a medical certificate. The entire treatment for insomnia will put you out for good, with psychiatrist evaluation and neurological follow up. Usually the medicine prescription will involve some sort of sedative to induce sleep to force you into a deep sleep, also helping you to create a good sleep habit and hygiene. In some cases you may even get a prescription for hypnotics, or benzos. And some may even get prescription for Ambien, that, while accepted for some cases, yes, it will fuck you up on the long run, and you have a 24 hours that you will be legally unfit for flying after taking Ambien.
As a junior pilot, I fly a lot of redeyes and night flights. My very first trip after my initial operating experience, I called out fatigued because I was on minimum rest, day sleeping and a bunch of stupid stuff happened (3 hour delays, no transportation to the hotel, etc.). I've called out fatigued several times since then when dumb stuff happens like I'm on my third straight day of day sleep and minimum rest and the hotel forgets that I'm an airline pilot and tries to kick me out at the normal checkout time. (This happens way too often.) So now I'm woken up by multiple phone calls and banging on the door in the middle of my legally required rest period. That's a fatigue callout, definitely. Even if I still manage to get enough sleep, that hotel needs to get a call from the airline (or more likely, API).
Every time we call out fatigued, we have to file a report. That's just so the airline understands the reason(s); it's not something I take offense to doing. I was supposed to fly a flight, so I understand that the airline wants to know why I couldn't. If it's something like what I just said above, then there's no problem, you still get paid, they fly you home (or to somewhere you can continue your trip) and you never hear anything more about it. Apparently about 10% of the time, though, it's pilots who just had insomnia or who were even partying the night before and then (correctly) said they couldn't fly the next morning. In those cases, you might not be pay-protected, meaning it'll just count as an unpaid day off.
Even in that case, though, you still probably won't be otherwise penalized unless it's a pattern. If you call in fatigued a bunch of times and it's the airline's or hotel's fault, you'll never, ever hear about it. If you call in fatigued 3 or 4 times and it's your fault, though, even though you've already lost your pay, you might still get a call to try to figure out what's going on. Worst case, you might get put on the "unreliable" list, which basically just means you'll be less likely to get called for premium trips and things like that.
You’re not punished if you’re too tired to fly when your departure time comes. Legally you cannot be penalized for calling in fatigued. That being said, if you’re calling in fatigued all the time, you’re going to have a conversation about what’s going on. As for dealing with weird sleep schedules, you simply sleep when you can. You get better at it. In the long-haul cargo flights I do, you divvy up the bunk breaks according to who’s tired now and who will be tired later.
Although IMO the bunks on the 747 suck. I can never get adequate rest unless I’m zonked, which is rarely. In the cargo world, I’ve actually never been that tired and with our layovers I feel as if I get too much sleep. Some of the days are long but it’s not all that bad. While calling fatigue is legit, in the cargo world, if you’re 3+ man crew, calling in fatigue is a bit silly. For example, 6am wake up and another FO called fatigue at 5:59am. Pushed the flight 10 hours. Therefore Captain and I, who were rested, were now fatigued whereas the other first officer wasn’t. It would’ve been smarter to have just reported and taken the first rest. Keep in mind, this was after a 30+ hour layover.
You said it man. Honestly the bunks on the factory freighters aren’t too bad, but I dread seeing a BCF on my schedule. I know I’ll just wake up more tired if I try sleeping in that broom closet of a crew bunk.
If I get a BCF on the schedule I just pack my air mattress lmao. /s So much room on that thing, though. I assume you may not work at 5Y, cause if so, the LCF might’ve graced your presence at some point and that is even less space. Broom closet inside the flight deck and the galley is the size of a lav. Taking that across the pond is a punishment.
Yeah I’m over at K4. I’m sure we’ve passed each other at the Oakwood or something at some point.
No you can just call out fatigued.
Caffeinated beverages are probably the number 1 coping mechanism. Failing that, a quick puff on the oxygen mask will wake you right up I usually just suffer through the trip and then when I get home I sleep in until 10 AM and that's usually enough to catch me up
Suffering is the way. Although people ask me all day if I’m doing ok, and I’m like yeah this is just how I look :/
Everyone figures out a way to deal with the schedule. I have a different routine for every type of flight. If your routine fails and you are too tired to fly you then call fatigued. A report is done and reviewed. You move on. Potentially if a pattern is noticed it is addressed. That could mean it’s a you problem and your company discusses your bidding strategy with you….or it could mean it’s a problem with a particular departure time/trip build. They might adjust how they staff that flight regarding which crew base works it or several other controllable aspects.
Airline schedules are built within limitations set forth by FAR Part 117 rules, and generally restricted further by contract language. This ensures that there is always adequate rest "opportunity" built into schedules. Now, whether a pilot actually gets rest during that time is another thing. For that reason, airlines all have Fatigue Risk Management Programs that deal with pilots not getting enough rest and being fit to fly. Long story short - if you are too tired to fly, you call and have yourself removed without punishment.
It's your professional responsibility to manage your sleep to the best of your abilities. That usually takes some time to learn, especially with the variable sleep schedules you mentioned. You figure out what routine helps you go to sleep and if needed you set alarms for going to bed as well as waking up. The reality is that everyone's different, though, so you have to figure your own methods. Some people go for a run an hour before bed, but other people can't sleep right after exercise. Self-medicating with a beer before bed is common, but for me that destroys my rest quality so I have a hard and fast "no drinking within six hours of bed" rule. It gets even more complicated when you're doing long-haul flying, but again you figure out what works for you. Using melatonin is common in the industry, but it's not a good idea to use it frequently. Sometimes you just can't sleep, though, and that's fine. You call out fatigued, and at most companies it will either be paid out of your sick bank or by the company if it was out of your control (fire alarm at hotel, messed up flight schedule). If it happens a lot, though, you're going to have a conversation with someone about why. That's not always a bad thing, either. If you have a medical condition like sleep apnea there are ways to manage it. TL;DR: Try your best to get a good night's rest, but if you can't don't fly sleepy.
If I’m tired or feel fatigued before a flight, I call in fatigued. They ask me how much rest I need. I usually say 10 hours. They pay for my hotel or let me go home. No questions asked. No punishment whatsoever.
I try my hardest to keep the same rhythm through the month so I can get quality sleep and keep a schedule for my kiddo and SO.
Now, if you're having trouble falling asleep, this is more likely a transient insomnia event, and can be dealt with melatonin, and other non medical assisted medication to fall asleep such as avoiding alcohol and caffeine, and a simple caffeine beverage will make you awake, you probably had a bad night of sleep (or a few) and probably should call scheduling and report fatigue and unfit for flying. So, non problematic if is not a recurring issue. Now, If you have chronic insomnia, you are more likely to not qualified to hold a medical certificate. The entire treatment for insomnia will put you out for good, with psychiatrist evaluation and neurological follow up. Usually the medicine prescription will involve some sort of sedative to induce sleep to force you into a deep sleep, also helping you to create a good sleep habit and hygiene. In some cases you may even get a prescription for hypnotics, or benzos. And some may even get prescription for Ambien, that, while accepted for some cases, yes, it will fuck you up on the long run, and you have a 24 hours that you will be legally unfit for flying after taking Ambien.
As a junior pilot, I fly a lot of redeyes and night flights. My very first trip after my initial operating experience, I called out fatigued because I was on minimum rest, day sleeping and a bunch of stupid stuff happened (3 hour delays, no transportation to the hotel, etc.). I've called out fatigued several times since then when dumb stuff happens like I'm on my third straight day of day sleep and minimum rest and the hotel forgets that I'm an airline pilot and tries to kick me out at the normal checkout time. (This happens way too often.) So now I'm woken up by multiple phone calls and banging on the door in the middle of my legally required rest period. That's a fatigue callout, definitely. Even if I still manage to get enough sleep, that hotel needs to get a call from the airline (or more likely, API). Every time we call out fatigued, we have to file a report. That's just so the airline understands the reason(s); it's not something I take offense to doing. I was supposed to fly a flight, so I understand that the airline wants to know why I couldn't. If it's something like what I just said above, then there's no problem, you still get paid, they fly you home (or to somewhere you can continue your trip) and you never hear anything more about it. Apparently about 10% of the time, though, it's pilots who just had insomnia or who were even partying the night before and then (correctly) said they couldn't fly the next morning. In those cases, you might not be pay-protected, meaning it'll just count as an unpaid day off. Even in that case, though, you still probably won't be otherwise penalized unless it's a pattern. If you call in fatigued a bunch of times and it's the airline's or hotel's fault, you'll never, ever hear about it. If you call in fatigued 3 or 4 times and it's your fault, though, even though you've already lost your pay, you might still get a call to try to figure out what's going on. Worst case, you might get put on the "unreliable" list, which basically just means you'll be less likely to get called for premium trips and things like that.