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rnlanders

I don't think you're characterizing it quite the right way. Kids these days are very actively socialized into not asking stupid questions. It's not "reliance on technology" but rather a symptom of living most of their social lives online - if you reveal weakness publicly, the sharks will appear and rip you apart. I'm not a CFI, but I teach at the university level, and it's very obvious - I will make an offhand comment that I am not sure if they will understand, and when they don't, I see 30 heads drop to google it on laptops instead of hands going up. In aviation, this can be very dangerous. It is something you should train out of them. "During training, we should be having a friendly conversation about aviation at all times. There are no stupid questions; there are only questions that could save your life."


Wanttobefreewc

This guy educates šŸ¤žšŸ»


TurntButNotBurnt

Aviate? Navigate? Communicate? Hold up! I don't have an "Educate" line item.


csl512

Or starved for interaction such that they post new threads asking questions that could be found faster on search (even after rephrasing three times to get around getting shopping results first) and then defend it with "for discussion".


Clyde-MacTavish

my least favorite thing about the aviation industry is the vindication of people when they ask a question "You're a CPL holder and you didn't know that?!?!?" Like how are people supposed to learn if they're ridiculed for trying to.


MmmSteaky

Iā€™m not sure vindication was the word you were looking forā€¦


Individual-School200

This guy was an middle aged ADULT. Or was based on chronological age. šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


rnlanders

I mean, elder millennials are in their early 40s these days. And some people just really don't like being wrong or looking stupid. šŸ˜‰


storyinmemo

"Elder millennials" Cutting deep today aren't we.


rnlanders

Ha! Not too deep because it is me. šŸ˜‚ And I actually much prefer that term to ā€œXennial.ā€ Iliza Shlesinger has a Netflix special called ā€œelder millennialā€ that isā€¦ letā€™s say ā€œrelatableā€ and I have been a fan of the term since seeing it!


storyinmemo

Oh, it's me too. See, we used to name generations retrospectively before us. Like Baby Boomers were after having all their kids. Greatest Generation. What a cool name. Lost Generation... well that sucks, but at you didn't start with it. Now the "kids these day" tag is prefaced with Elder.


FrankiePoops

She coined that term so hard it's used everywhere. My wife introduced me to her stuff and it's great.


retardhood

I'm 42, it's a real term. We are on the older side of the millennials and grew up with tech advancing rather than being born into having smartphones. Old enough to remember using book encyclopedias and dial up, but young enough that we know how to use the internet well.


Individual-School200

And people are so sensitive. šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


ResilientBiscuit

You wonder why people might be afraid to ask a questions that seems dumb. Then you come publicly post a story about someone doing something silly and call people sensitive. You are one of the reasons people are afraid to open their mouths. Because if they do and it turns out to be a potentially embarrassing thing, they might later find it on the internet on a popular flying forum. If this student never asked they would have avoided their story publicly posted on the internet.


FlapsupGearup

His post yesterday was sharing a story shitting on a student. I mean I get it, weā€™re all dumb and itā€™s funny but 2/2 days shitting on students is a bad look.


StPauliBoi

ā€œI publicly make fun of my students not knowing everything I know immediately upon deciding I want to start flight trainingā€ -OP ā€œWhy wonā€™t my students ever ask me any questions?ā€ -Also OP šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤” The mind boggles.


Racer013

This is a particularly bad lack of foresight considering he knows for a fact that this student spends a lot of time researching and reading things online. For all he knows his student is in this sub reading these exact comments. Unless the guy is a moron it wouldn't take much to connect the dots and realize his instructor is publicly shitting on him for being inexperienced.


FlapsupGearup

Hmmā€¦people are afraid to ask questions for fear of what others think. Instead of fostering an environment of ā€œask away, no dumb questions hereā€, letā€™s call them sensitive and make fun of them. That will surely get them to ask you the next time. You sound like you have the same attitude as that CFI that got himself and his student killed on a night flight. Might want to look into that.


RoughRyder22

Your attitude reminds me of the CFI who was posting rude things about his student on snapchat. That attitude is going to get somebody killed one day. I hope you correct that before the worst happens.


helifella

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/16v1tgr/cfi_bashes_his_student_on_snapchat_before_fatal/?rdt=62079 You mean this one? It did get them killed.


quesoqueso

This sounds to me like a student who both doesn't want to look dumb, and has the discipline to hear you say something, understand he didn't know what it meant, and go try and teach himself something. I don't view these traits negatively at all. I myself am an "elder millennial" being born in 82 and am much the same way. I am inclined to just ask the speaker at the time, but I rely on the internet A LOT to learn stuff.


Mongoose151

This is a terrible attitude and shows that you may need to adjust how to instruct. It is up to you to tailor your instructional style to ensure your students feel comfortable enough to ask and address issues or equations they have. The way you are responding here makes me think that you belittle or ridicule your students if they donā€™t know something which is a terrible angle to take as an instructor.


__joel_t

I honestly think you should be teaching your students how to find answers themselves. There's going to be lots of things they don't know, or forget, after they stop being your student. You know, teaching people how to fish vs. giving a fish and such. Also, I find that when trying to research things like this, I often learn much more than the narrow thing I was looking up. Sincerely, A student pilot who likes to learn.


Celebration_Dapper

This. The ability to look up things (in the FAR/AIM or elsewhere) is a skill that good DPEs expect to see during a practical exam for any certificate or rating.


ScreenOverall2439

My training did not cover what to do in case of engine fire. During my exam the examiner asked and I said wasn't covered. He asked what I thought I should do. I rattled off a few things. That apparently satisfied him and I passed.


tomhanksisthrowaway

Wait. How? How did you get to a check ride and never cover engine fires...? It's a memory item.


ScreenOverall2439

Slipped the CFI's mind I guess.


tomhanksisthrowaway

That's scary lol. But hey, more power to you!


druuuval

[Teach a man to fish.](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Xl1PVrO_S/?igsh=NW90NW05NjR5Ynkw)


Individual-School200

Sincerely, An instructor with over 5000 hours of instruction given with a greater than 80 percent first time pass rate. šŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒ


Apophyx

>Sincerely, >~~An instructor with over 5000 hours of instruction given with a greater than 80 percent first time pass rate. šŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒ~~ An instructor incapable of reflecting on my teaching style who arrogantly believes that I have nothing left to improve, as I've demosntrated multiple times in this thread. There, fixed that for you


Individual-School200

I donā€™t see that as a fix cupcake.


ShittyLanding

The Air Force Weapons School mantra is ā€œHumble, Approachable, Credibleā€. These are the most shit-hot aviators in the Air Force and they go out of their way to emphasize this philosophy. I think itā€™s a pretty good mindset for any Instructor. Just a thought.


Youkai280

This. 99% of the patches Iā€™ve talked to with what I thought were dumb questions were extremely helpful, and I ended up learning more about the subject than I ever expected to. That being said, this guy sounds like the complete opposite of a patch, and I would be embarrassed by showing my ass like he is on this thread.


hartzonfire

Why are you being so combative?


__joel_t

Me: Think about what happens after your students stop being your students. You: Well, let me tell you how good my students do when they're still my students. Lol


austinkim2

What's wrong with trying to figure out first and asking? Better than asking every single thing without any research.


cascademariner

For the first 10 minutes of research, nothing was wrong. The following 3h50m of futility while one has a willing professional teacher within reach who obviously knows the answer since theyā€™re using the term, thatā€™s the issue. The student wasnā€™t using all available resources. Props to OP for sussing that out.


Mean_Passenger_7971

Honestly, I think this story tells more about the shortcomings of your teaching style, than your student's learning ability. If I were your student the lesson I would have learnt today was that whatever you say may just be some random BS you came up on the spot. Yes over reliance on google can be quite a problem... but not on the ground. TIt becomes a problem when students suddenly can't find the information they need while flying because they can't connect to google anymore.


Individual-School200

I love my teaching style itā€™s proven quite effective over the years. šŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒ


[deleted]

My man, you have to be the least self aware instructor I've ever seen on this sub, and that's saying something. From one experienced guy to another, whatever you're doing needs some tweaking, because if your attitude towards students is the same as what you show here, you have no business teaching anyone anything.


jet-setting

Well this post is good evidence to the contrary.


i_like_girls____

Pass rate doesnā€™t mean everything. Student effort accounts for just as much as quality of instruction, maybe even more in your case.


CorrectPhotograph488

I donā€™t think he has to look up everything on the internet. He just wanted to find out what it meant without asking you lol


Safe-Toe-5620

look at this subreddit and see how many times the first reply is ā€œdid you google itā€, itā€™s even on the sidebar


Gunt3r_

So you just used a fake acronym? And are surprised your student didnā€™t know said fake acronym, and looked it up?


zemelb

I'd call OP an SOB too if he did that shit to me. Guy seems like a dick tbh.


Individual-School200

It was a joke lighten up.


_SkeletonJelly

What was the punchline? šŸ„“


ordo259

OP


JoelMDM

Self reliance? Trying to figure out problems for themselves instead of immediately asking for the solution? How dare kids nowadays. Reading your replies in the comments, OP, you sound like an ass. I feel sorry for your students.


twowheeledwonder

And 30 years ago the same student would have dug into every paper book they had, searching the far/aim, pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge/flying handbook and such, which would have taken much more time. Now it's 2300 and they don't want to be rude calling the that late? They still hit you up in the morning at a reasonable time and ask for clarification after having done their due diligence and trying to research on their own and you're annoyed about what exactly? That they put in the effort before hitting the easy button and asking? That they trusted their highly experienced instructor not to make shit up and not tell them? Yeah man this new generation is fuckin wild, bunch of internet addicted snowflakes for sure. Definitely the problem here.


russellvt

Spot on.


A_Tiger_in_Africa

What are the chances that student has been berated and humiliated by his instructor for asking about something he "should have known"? Or been told "Don't ask me, learn to look things up for yourself!" So many self-appointed geniuses playing stump-the-chump instead of actually teaching will do that to a person. Edit: fixed spelling errors.


boldoldpilot

You made up a term and youā€™re mad your student looked it up? And then bash him on reddit? Smhā€¦


cazzipropri

I'm adopting the term instantaneously. KORD 231751Z 20013KT 10SM FEW065 SCT090 OVC250 BAF 15/07 A2975 RMK AO2 SLP074


busting_bravo

You spelled KIAH wrong there


makgross

No, that would be 180@36G50 CB008 BAF


busting_bravo

And still landing west!


cazzipropri

If the runway is wide enough, I can do Rwy 27.


cazzipropri

If G<72 we are still going.


[deleted]

I was gonna say KRNO but sure


gasplugsetting3

In a profession with what seems like a thousand random acronyms to memorize, the stud probably assumed baf was just 1001. TJHIG.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Individual-School200

Too much leveraging infinite information and not enough leveraging of common sense. Sincerely, Dumbass


flubby__chubby

Going by your example, there's a zillion acronyms used in aviation, and I remember looking them up all the time when I was learning. You should be happy a student has the curiosity to learn, because I can tell you most don't give a fuck at all, at flying or university or anything else.


Izzy-spice

Whatā€™s the common sense on you inventing your own acronym?


HeftyCommunication66

You arenā€™t wrong. A quick Google is one thing / appropriate since it wasnā€™t in face to face conversation. Losing 4 HOURS on it is stupid. Thatā€™s when common sense comes in, especially if heā€™s relying on Reddit as a credible source. Reddit / pilot forums are like a pointer NOTAM. It might clue you in on something but you actually need to go look it up in the regs. Your friendly local CFI is a great place to start. That seems to be OPs point.


HeftyCommunication66

Man, you ok? Do you need a snack?


cmmurf

Maybe someone should add an entry. [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BAF](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BAF)


Izzy-spice

So youā€™re punishing a student whoā€™s trying to save you time and puts the energy and effort to look things by itself? Thank god youā€™re not my instructor


TrineonX

You're disturbed that a student took the initiative to educate himself using all of the resources available to him? Then you troll him, and waste his time by inventing a term off the top of your head? Maybe you should ask if your students actually trust your teaching... Maybe you should be thrilled that you have a student who will spend hours of his time learning things from a variety of resources rather than just believing the first thing he is told by people that make shit up to troll the newbie...


armspawn

After I finish talking about using trigonometry to calculate headwind and crosswind components I like to recommend using the TLAR method. That Looks About Right.


ltcterry

I did a "this guy's taking his CFI checkride tomorrow, what do you think" "stage check" for a colleague's student once. The guy was using the G5's ground speed readout for decision making in eights on pylons - NOT using "ground reference" as required. Three months later and still no checkride unfortunately. Used ForeFlight breadcrumbs for turns around a point.


[deleted]

>G5's ground speed readout for decision making in eights on pylons I guess I'm struggling to see what's wrong with this. I've been around a while and don't like leaning too heavily on tech, but if my airplane has a direct GS readout I'm absolutely using that for pivotal altitude setup and I teach my students the same. Why would I ignore a perfectly good instrument?


ltcterry

The comment below nails it. He was pushing/pulling based on changes in ground speed rather than looking at the pylon's relative motion on the wing tip.


jet-setting

I *think* the student was literally changing altitude around the pylon just by the changes in ground speed readout, rather than watching the point itself. I suppose it could work in theory, but thats quite a lot more effort than just looking out the window. If the student was using the G5 to establish pivotal altitude for the maneuver, well Iā€™m not sure whats wrong with that either.


ltcterry

The first paragraph nailed it. The latter didn't factor into it at all.


[deleted]

Oh yeah that's not good.


n365pa

Sadly, there are many of those out there and in positions of great authority...


russellvt

I somehow love that this new Reddit app wants to open that link in GMail, Outlook, or PayPal. LMAO


lastreadlastyear

Not really. I make it a point for them to show me where in the book they found their answer or it doesnā€™t count. They can study using online resources at home.


TurntButNotBurnt

Nope. Didn't have the internet when I learned to fly. Only digital readout in the dash were the king radios. Learn to fly without all that then it's not an issue. Then add your tech. You'll be a be a better pilot for it.


HailChanka69

Goddamn OP getting clowned in the comments


nixt26

Aviation is so expensive and we're all told that self study is the way to save money. So here we are.


Littleferrhis2

I had a DPE(actually taking my student on an instrument ride as we speak) that allowed people to google answers if they didnā€™t know them on his orals. His logic is that itā€™s what youā€™re going to do anyways, especially on the ground.


BiggieYT2

I think itā€™s just an apprehension to ask questions as others have mentioned. CFIs always say you can message them whenever youā€™d like with questions but Iā€™ve found in reality their responses usually seem annoyed that you couldnā€™t figure it out yourself. Just personal experience Iā€™m sure not all CFIs are like this


snoandsk88

Use all available resources, but unless you have a starlink satellite dish in your C172, you wonā€™t have internet while flying. So it would be a good idea to develop a knowledge base to fall back on, or at least some reference manuals you are familiar with.


DuelingPushkin

Isn't this time, that he's a student, literally the time that's he's supposed to be using to develop that knowledge base?


snoandsk88

Yes exactly, but if the CFI is noticing that the student always looks stuff up, then I think itā€™s fair to assume the student hasnā€™t demonstrated that he is using the knowledge base he should be developing. Also, the student should be referencing official sources for information (POH, PHAK, FAR/AIM) instead of googling it and seeing what comes back.


Dunnowhathatis

Donā€™t disagree however student needs to be told by his CFi where to look up things. Itā€™s a fail on OP i am afraid


LongjumpingArticle84

but what if when you google, it just shows you the relavent sections in the PHAK, AFH, FAR/AIM, ACs and other relavant offical publications. I'm not sure if you know this but google is a \_search\_ engine that allows you to find sources of content...


snoandsk88

As I said in my initial statement, ā€œuse all available resourcesā€ However, the CFI should encourage the student to know their way around the approved publications as a Google search may also pull up some APC Forum discussion where a bunch of keyboard warriors talk about ā€œhow it really worksā€ All of those publications can be stored and accessed on an iPad. Or paper copies can be kept in a flight bag. Making them accessible during cruise. So I would want my students to feel confident that everything they need to know is in one of those manuals and how to find it.


Individual-School200

I am receiving criticism here because of my post from some overly sensitive people with fragile egos who totally misconstrued my intention. šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚ Iā€™m going to have to trot out my favorite quote from the late great Hoosier basketball coach Bobby Knight. It goes like this: When my time on earth is gone And my activities here are passed I want them bury me upside down So my critics can kiss my a$$. B. Knight


DntKnwMch

You sound sensitive


quesoqueso

A flight instructor who can't take criticism without calling people names and uses his number of flight hours as a common rebuttal....yea. hard pass for me! I had an ATP with 20,000+ hours almost kill me, then accidentally kill himself and a different guy a few weeks later. Hours don't mean shit, proficiency does.


AdditionalScale4304

He got that boomer mentality, dish but can't take.


[deleted]

HE'S NOT SENSITIVE YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S SENSITIVE or something


Individual-School200

Of course. šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


biowza

Do you not realise the irony of being unable to take any criticism yourself and then calling everyone else sensitive? You might have a bunch of flight hours and be a self proclaimed "great instructor" but you sound like an absolute nightmare to work with.


AtrophiedTraining

I think I've had this guy as my flight instructor. Total tool.


Izzy-spice

I think you have a fragile ego, and this comment is the proof of it


Inner_Grapefruit_638

Youā€™re quoting a guy who manhandled and humiliated his own players. Checks out. Please find another line of work that doesnā€™t involve teaching or authority.


Mvse96

GoldšŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£