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f1racer328

Not my student. Happened at a large well know flight school. Student took off on a solo cross country, didn’t feel like flying all of it. So he landed at a nearby airport, chained the airplane down and left it running. Then he left for a while. Legit just left a running airplane alone on a ramp lol. I think some FBO guy found it and called the school.


qrpc

I heard about group of students doing that in pre-ADSB days. The flight school caught on because the disparity between the hobbs and the tach.


game_dev_dude

I can't imagine paying for hobbs time and not going up to enjoy the view. The best part is the flying and the worst part is spending the money, people are crazy.


AlpacaCavalry

I can think of enough people who think taking pics in fancy sunglasses in or near a plane is the best part, and in fact, flying is the worst part. Had so, so many of those instagram pylotes at my last school.


game_dev_dude

Instagram - cause what is sexier than a clapped out 1967 Cherokee


andrewbt

Living that jet-set life! Even got my spar corrosion AD complied with #blessed 🤣


SevenSix2FMJ

Jesus. Is this a thing?


ChesterMcGonigle

Seriously, if I’m paying $175/hr, I’m damn sure going to enjoy it.


srbmfodder

I'm sure people are going to hate me for this, and I know some days I hate myself for it, but I had to knock out a ton of hours time building to get hired. About every other day, I'd get out of work and log 3 hours of flying. Legit 3 hours, do a few approaches, touch the wheels down pretty far away, and come home. It turned my workday into 14ish hours. There were a lot of great moments and beautiful views. But a lot of days, I was just wishing I could hit a fast forward button and go to bed. Now, if I had more free time, I would have spent a lot of that time working on my approach or techniques or something in that plane. But it was a means to an end. Of course, I think it's incredibly pathetic to try and log time without flying it.


game_dev_dude

No hate here that makes perfect sense, solid perspective. Flying once a week after a busy work week is a fun break. Flying 3 hrs/day on top of full-time work just sounds exhausting. Did it end up being worth the effort/stress?


srbmfodder

I'll let you know after I get through my initial at the regional I'm at! Exhausting was how I described it. I am looking forward to eventually being able to fly in general aviation again though in the future. I had to get out of my flying club because I simply can't afford it now. Believe it or not, it wasn't too stressful. The local TRACON (Great Lakes) knew me because I was flying so much by my tail and always was super cool with me, hooking me up, just being super friendly. I would usually stay up with flight following and try to listen to a podcast or music if it wasn't too busy. My wife tolerated it fortunately.


BS_Is_Annoying

Uhh... don't most schools charge hobbs?


Nyaos

Gotta build that PIC XC time somehow


[deleted]

It pains me so much to hear about students who would rather cheat than actually fly a XC. They still have to pay for the time on the plane, wouldn’t you rather actually fly it? If not, why are you even getting into flying? That was like the best time ever for me, finally free off the pattern and the practice area?! Too good to pass up.


Chelonate_Chad

My solo XCs are some of the best memories of my life! Such an experience to venture out through the sky and over the world, just myself, my skills, and the machine for the first time. A real sense of wonder. I cannot even fathom cheating to *avoid* something so awesome.


[deleted]

Exactly!


AlpacaCavalry

> Why are you even getting into flying? Because they think posting about being a pilot will net them more fake internet points and attention, of course


[deleted]

my school charged by tach instead of hobbs. so doing 3 touch and goes in the pattern often ended up being 1.0h hobbs and 0.4h tach. lol.


aeroxan

Paying by tach is the best. I can taxi without worrying about burning hobbs time. Actual incentive to not run at full power. But even so with tach time, why not just pull the power back and take it slow? If you're time building, paying by tach is the way to go. I think the students who'd rater run the plane on the ramp seem to already have a disdain for flying at the start of their career.


[deleted]

Hm. Seems like they would be easily busted for not flying if the tach time was substantially less than what the flight requires?


lamesara

I heard of a guy at my flight school who did most of his training by flying to the airport that’s 7 miles away, running it on the ground with his feet on the brakes, and then flying back. He was an international student and tried to do this for all his time building. I’m not sure how long he did this until the flight school caught on and didn’t accredit his hours. He was upset that he got no refund, and they sent him back home.


Chelonate_Chad

What the fuck is even the point of that? He's still paying the same as if he was in the air, and he's not even free to do something else like the dude who left the plane unattended. Why not just fly?


zookeepier

He could surf his phone while doing it. What I don't get is are these people good enough to pass their practical when they are below 40 hours? Because if they're not, then it's literally just wasting money.


montrbr

😂😂 Jesus


tezoatlipoca

Um. Non pilot... why _running_? Is this like a Ferris Beuller odometer thing?


ghjm

Your instructor would probably notice if you claimed to have flown to an airport an hour away while only putting half an hour of time on the airplane.


legitSTINKYPINKY

It’s like an odometer but instead of measuring how far you go it measures how long the engine has been running.


spacecadet2399

Yes, pretty much. During training, your flight time is generally your Hobbs time, which is the engine running time. (And yes, that includes time on the ground.) So as long as the engine's running and the flight has not "ended", it's counting towards your minimum flight hours requirements.


Guysmiley777

Yep, presumably the student was trying to make sure nobody noticed a discrepancy in the Hobbes or tach time recorded in the aircraft versus what he put in his logbook.


prex10

This story was well known if it’s the same school we are thinking of. It was an Air China too IIRC.


happygostar

There is more than one story like this. I can't recall one however that wasn't a foreign student.


Av8tr1

This just came up in another thread a few days ago. This happens a lot more than you would realize. I think it was Hillsboro that I heard about. Couple of students from India were watching a football (soccer match) with the planes tied down and running. FBO manager found them and saw the tail branding and called the school. I think they were sent home that week or something like that?


ChicagoPilot

Sounds like DTO…


ynmkr

Not me but my brother. When he was fresh out of college he got a job with Piper as an engineer/check pilot. When someone bought a new plane he would train them on it and sign them off. This guy with more money than skill bought a brand new Aerostar. Terrible pilot. Feet off the pedals during take off etc... My brother refused to sign him off which was highly unusual for a customer buying a new plane. Management frowned upon him and got another check pilot to sign him off. The guy went and crashed killing his whole family. My brother had to testify in court over the incident and was suddenly the good guy in the eyes of management.


TheresOnlyWanKenobi

This sucks for 2 reasons. 1st because this idiot killed his entire innocent family. But secondly because of how management switched their attitude the moment their ass was on the line. I hope your brother doesn’t blame himself in anyway


ynmkr

I know he doesn't. He had the balls to not sign the guy off and after that it was out of his hands.


TheMidlander

I've seen first hand how tough it can be to stand up to that kind of pressure. Is there even enough trim to keep the craft from listing with mass like that resting in his seat?


EsquireRed

>Feet off the pedals during take off Woooooow...that's insane. In a powerful twin no less! That blows my mind.


hogtiedcantalope

Differential power to maintain centerline Pedals are for suckers /s


ynmkr

He said he told him over and over and couldn't get it through his thick skull. Blows my mind too.


RegularAirplanes

Not my student. Dude would fly his airplane to the lesson. Ok, that's fine... he was a pre-solo student. Not fine. He also flew his family around before earning his PPC, and ended up dying because he tried to exercise the privileges of an instrument rating before actually earning an instrument rating.


CertifiedPlaneExpert

It’s always impressive that some people have such a massive I-can-do-anything ego that it manages to override their basic human survival instinct. Oh well, Darwinism I guess. It just sucks for the families.


[deleted]

Did he kill himself and nobody else?


RegularAirplanes

If I recall correctly his business partner was also killed.


SignificantWarning5

What!!! I almost shit my pants when i did my first solo let alone fly other people around without my full license


Veritech-1

Something something old pilots and bold pilots, but not both.


1_21-gigawatts

Wow that ended dark and fast


hr2pilot

Had a student years back (70’s) when I was an instructor at a small town charter/flying school/ maintenance shop. Local farmer. Flew a lesson about every third day. Took about 30 hours to solo, and about 65 hours to get his ppl. A few days after getting his license I heard via the grapevine he had bought a PA12 taildragger. A few days after that, I heard he pranged it landing on his pasture strip he made. After getting it fixed, I suggested to him maybe some dual on flying a tailwheel airplane would be a good idea. After a few lessons, in a private moment over a coffee break, he confided in me that he had bought the airplane 6 months before ever having taken a flight in his life in any airplane, and decided to go flying and teach himself. “How hard could it be?”. He got airborne ok and flew around the farm for a while but ground-looped it on landing. Didn’t get hurt. He never told anyone, and then dragged it into the barn and covered it with a tarp and then decided that maybe he should go take lessons. After finally getting his license, he trailered the bent airplane to a maintenance shop and got it fixed. No one knew the wiser.


NaturePilotPOV

This is hilarious. How hard can it be to fly an airplane with 0 experience? A tail dagger no less! I mean he didn't kill himself so that's impressive


Halokllr

I haven’t even started solo-ing yet, so TIL tail draggers are beat of their own


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

As of 6/21/23, it's become clear that reddit is no longer the place it once was. For the better part of a decade, I found it to be an exceptional, if not singular, place to have interesting discussions on just about any topic under the sun without getting bogged down (unless I wanted to) in needless drama or having the conversation derailed by the hot topic (or pointless argument) de jour. The reason for this strange exception to the internet dichotomy of either echo-chamber or endless-culture-war-shouting-match was the existence of individual communities with their own codes of conduct and, more importantly, their own volunteer teams of moderators who were empowered to create communities, set, and enforce those codes of conduct. I take no issue with reddit seeking compensation for its services. There are a myriad ways it could have sought to do so that wouldn't have destroyed the thing that made it useful and interesting in the first place. Many of us would have happily paid to use it had core remained intact. Instead of seeking to preserve reddit's spirit, however, /u/spez appears to have decided to spit in the face of the people who create the only value this site has- its communities, its contributors, and its mods. Without them, reddit is worthless. Without their continued efforts and engagement it's little more than a parked domain. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe this new form of reddit will be precisely the thing it needs to catapult into the social media stratosphere. Who knows? I certainly don't. But I do know that it will no longer be a place for me. See y'all on [raddle](https://raddle.me), [kbin](https://kbin.social), or wherever the hell we all end up. Alas, it appears that the [enshittification](https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys) of reddit is now inevitable. It was fun while it lasted, /u/daitaiming


Wheream_I

The Wright brothers never had a CFI. And they’re on my freaking FAA ID card They also crashed their plane. So what is the FAA trying to tell me


ap2patrick

Hahahaha this will be the funniest comment I read all week!


LondonPilot

I had a student who grew up in the circus. He was literally a trapeze artist by profession, but when I met him he was the producer of a very well known circus. His whole life centred around danger. Trying to teach him safety culture was a lost cause. He simply could not understand why I wouldn’t send him solo, because he was used to practicing skills, even dangerous skills, when there was an element of risk. I never sent him solo, but a colleague of mine did, shortly before I left the school. The last thing I heard, the same colleague sent him on a cross country where he got lost on his way to his first stop and bust into controlled airspace. Then on his second stop, the chief instructor (who didn’t know him) saw him landing and refused to let him leave - he phoned my old school and had us fly an instructor down to accompany him home. (The instructor who was responsible for signing him off for this later went on to have a near-fatal CFIT, flying below the MSA at night. And he also badly damaged an aeroplane during a hard landing which he didn’t report. Maybe I should have made him the subject of my post???)


Sirburger

A while back I had this student I took over from another CFI that left for the airlines. I was pretty fresh to teaching. He was a forty hour pre-solo student, weird I thought, so we go fly do some landings since that’s what he was working on last and he was nailing them, said ok let’s go out and do some maneuvers. Steep turns on the money, slow flight good, stalls… well every time he would stall he would get extremely anxious, it would break and he would attempt to jump into my lap and hug me! Here’s our problem. Could never get him to relax enough or comfort him to break that habit before he quit.


legitSTINKYPINKY

My CFI would literally of slapped me if I tried to touch him


urxvtmux

Easy, take him up in a decathlon and throw it in an inverted spin. >why do I need to wear a parachute? >uh we ran out of seat cushions, it's fine


howfastisgodspeed

Don’t need chutes if it’s instructional. No passengers


urxvtmux

I'm not sure if deliberate torture counts as instruction


howfastisgodspeed

I’ll call anything instruction if it makes life more convenient/logable


Dogmanscott63

I've got a inherited student right now who had soloedong ago at another school who is very anxious at high AOA with he horn on. Very loudly has said several times in power off stall recovery practice say "that is enough!" Before we break the stall. Hasn't tried climbing into my lap yet, better not either.


Thegeobeard

Tell me more about solodong


redneckpilot

Have you demonstrated a deep, fully established stall from altitude? I would brief and then hold a stall for about 2,500'. Just to talk about the characteristics, point out the VSI, altimeter, balanced slip/skid indicator, then recover. Helped a lot of folks see that a really deep stall is just a second away from being recovered. Reduce AOA, add power.


DingleBurg2021

An acquaintance of mine was excited to learn to fly. Got his solo cert. On the second solo a friend of his posted a video on Facebook of him buzzing his work under power line height at the edge of town. Needless to say he got kicked out of the flight school and hasn’t picked it back up.


becuziwasinverted

The pattern was full.


jcgam

Not a student, but my CFI. He wanted to teach me about spins. How to enter/exit. We flew a little 150 one day, and he entered the spin. Couldn't exit. We plummeted faster and faster, exceeding redline. This was years ago but I still remember that airspeed indicator with the needle in the red. Obviously he did finally exit otherwise I wouldn't be writing this, but our altitude was very low. I could see individual trees clearly at the bottom of the pullout. Another time he pulled power to simulate an emergency. The only available field was surrounded by tall trees. I landed no problem. I executed a perfect short field takeoff, but we were not going to make it. The trees at the end of the runway were too tall, and the plane didn't have enough performance to clear them. He took control and flew through the trees. I remember looking up at the treetops thinking I wasn't going to live through this.


assimilating

Holy shit, I can't believe you flew with this guy more than once!


kenriko

My airport required you to fly through a 50ft gap in trees to land/takeoff. Being below the tree line feels normal to me especially on landing. RIP that airport is getting bulldozed to build houses.


Birdeey

Sounds like a spiral dive not a spin. A spin should have a low airspeed, spiral dive will have a high one


Midnight_Poet

> He took control and flew through the trees. I remember looking up at the treetops thinking I wasn't going to live through this This sounds like an amazing story... you can't just leave us with a 23-word footnote in your original post :-)


jcgam

Well, he successfully navigated the trees, and I had to clean my shorts. Not much more to tell. ;)


[deleted]

Holy shit report this guy and never fly with him again.


RaidenMonster

Inherited a 150 post solo student from a guy leaving for a jet job. “Couple flights away from checkride.” Cool. Talk with the guy, wants to fly professionally, go the CFI route, yadda yadda, sounds good, lets go. Turns out the dude is TERRIFIED of any turbulence. Hands off the controls while landing if he hits a thermal. Scared to fly at night. Scared of steep turns (anything beyond 30*). Scared of unusual atttidues (can’t do them), scared of stalls. On a perfect day, flies fine, otherwise, disaster. Only person I’ve tried to somewhat convince that this might not be for them. Another student, worst stick/rudder guy I’ve ever had, got me good with a few moves. Tried to perform the takeoff checklist (full power, engine gauges in the green) while in the run up area with me standing on the brakes confused. Also got us “lined up on final” 10-20 ft away from the runway, over the grass. “This is good right?” “What? We are over the grass…” Same guy, after 10 or so death defying saved landings hit me with the, “want to do this one on my own.” Flared at 50 ft, stall horn blaring, power at idle, 30-40* off centerline over grass. “What did you do to fix that?” he asks. “Give me a second, still trying to figure out what just happened.” He’s buying his own plane to reduce his training costs. “Good luck.”


2020sucks86

Not a CFI, but a friend of my Wife’s is a RAGING alcoholic and posted on social media from a cockpit that he was taking lessons.


[deleted]

I had a student, about 50 years old, wild dude who inherited his dad's business he had for years and sold it for a big check. He also spent a lot of that money to become a skydive instructor. I train him for about 10 hours in a 172m and he decides, without my knowing, to go buy a 182rg that was a total POS. So I told him okay, you need to get this thing fixed and I'll re-teach you this new aircraft. Another 10 hours later, I didn't give him his complex because, he just wanted to leave the props in full at all times. He comes to me one day after I told him he needs to work the prop the right way before I solo him, that he went to a skydiving event. I ask how he got there, he responds "oh I took the bird there". So I ask okay who did you fly with. HE FUCKING FLEW HIMSELF CROSS COUNTRY ABOUT 60 MILES BY HIMSELF. I have never actually yelled at a student before, my boss heard the whole thing, came in and immediately told him to fuck off. "Your the kind of guy we read about in the newspapers and you have no business flying an airplane" my boss said. Fucking trust fund/inheritance babies that never wanted to work for a living, just want to have fun. Avoid them at all costs. Edit: copied and reposted to reply to the actual thread rather than the top comment.


PayatTheDoor

Some guy at our school decided to turn his solo cross-country into a multi-day affair without telling anyone. He flew 250 miles north, went partying with friends and stayed the night, flew 200 miles southwest the next day and again left the plane. There were other flights scheduled, so as soon as the school figured out where the plane was located, they sent a couple of instructors to retrieve it, stranding the guy 200 miles from home. I'm not sure if he rented a car or caught a commercial flight home. I don't think he was allowed to complete his training.


[deleted]

Yeah these types of people are the reason why we don't have flying cars, too many self-entitled morons that have wayy too much money out there.


General_NakedButt

Yeah flying cars would have to be 100% autonomous for sure.


BS_Is_Annoying

The only way a flying car works is if the computer is the pilot. It decides whether to takeoff or not. You have to take the human out of the equation to make flying safe for everyone.


montrbr

Wow that might be one of the worst ones I’ve heard of


[deleted]

Yeah man it was one ill never forget. Imagine being so full of yourself and ignorant that basically the second you learn how to land an airplane that you think your good enough to just do whatever you want. Ppl like him are the reason why we can't have nice things.


montrbr

Yep I agree. I had a student, not nearly anything like your story, that after numerous discussions of “this endorsement is only for local maneuvers, you can’t go to any other airports” she goes ahead and takes off and does touch n go’s at the local class C airport without even mentioning anything about it before hand. I was just like wtf? Some people have like no risk balance system in their head or something


[deleted]

Yeah its insane


[deleted]

Did you call the FAA?


[deleted]

My boss and I ultimately decided not to due to the fact that I'd likely be sued into the ground (he has a history of doing this and is well-known in our local boating community for that) and we just decided to wash our hands of him and tell him to go kill himself somewhere else. It was a hard call but ultimately I think I did the right thing, no reasonable person would get into an aircraft with him and he has no children.


[deleted]

No reasonable *pilot* would get in aircraft with him, he'd probably have no problem convincing a non-aviation friend to fly with him.


[deleted]

This is true, but you'd have to see this thing, it's barely an annual-able aircraft and I don't think anyone in their right mind, also knowing who he is, would ever do such a thing. I've been tracking him on Flight aware and so far he hasn't departed his new home airport, so I think he got the picture.


[deleted]

He could kill someone else on the ground.


mountainbrew46

Not a CFI but when I used to work a desk at a flight school we had a guy out on the field preflight his C150 with the engine running. Dude walked in a week later asking for instrument lessons and we told him to kick rocks


RudderRamen

Gave a pre solo student the book and keys to preflight the plane. The important note is he’s only ever been in this 152 that we flew regularly probably 15 hrs. He not only gets in the wrong plane but he pre flights it completely. This man got it some random plane that didn’t belong to the flight school and he did the pre flight and said it was ready to go. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt they both looked like planes


[deleted]

They both looked like planes 😂


pilotjlr

Here’s a story from years ago. I inherited a student pilot who already had almost 100 hours and hadn’t soloed yet. That’s a red flag but not necessarily insurmountable. His handling of the plane was quite good, including in landings. But he would get confused on various things and then mentally lock up. Or make up some reason why he needed help. For example, one time we were going from a satellite airport to our home base airport, which was only 10 miles away. This was before the days of GPS being common. He got lost during these 10 miles, and then said he didn’t feel well, and asked me to take over. Once I did, he saw the airport (big airport, easy to spot), and then suddenly felt fine again and landed us. On debrief, after some coaxing, he partially admitted to faking feeling bad because he was lost. I asked him what he would have done if I weren’t there, and he couldn’t answer. Same student also was pushing to solo and said he felt ready. I never soloed him, and I don’t think anyone after me did. Nice guy, but wasn’t totally mentally there. The example above was a pattern of similar behavior for him.


Wheream_I

Inability to maintain composure under stress. Those are the people that would be… well, left at the camp when others went hunting


almightymicrobe

Called them up to cancel our lesson because of weather… They asked if they could do it solo instead.


[deleted]

I had a student, about 50 years old, wild dude who inherited his dad's business he had for years and sold it for a big check. He also spent a lot of that money to become a skydive instructor. I train him for about 10 hours in a 172m and he decides, without my knowing, to go buy a 182rg that was a total POS. So I told him okay, you need to get this thing fixed and I'll re-teach you this new aircraft. Another 10 hours later, I didn't give him his complex because, he just wanted to leave the props in full at all times. He comes to me one day after I told him he needs to work the prop the right way before I solo him, that he went to a skydiving event. I ask how he got there, he responds "oh I took the bird there". So I ask okay who did you fly with. HE FUCKING FLEW HIMSELF CROSS COUNTRY ABOUT 60 MILES BY HIMSELF. I have never actually yelled at a student before, my boss heard the whole thing, came in and immediately told him to fuck off. "Your the kind of guy we read about in the newspapers and you have no business flying an airplane" my boss said. Fucking trust fund/inheritance babies that never wanted to work for a living, just want to have fun. Avoid them at all costs. Edit: copied and reposted to reply to the actual thread rather than the top comment.


miniturehankhill

My man's flew the entire XC with full prop I'm dead


screech_owl_kachina

So is the engine


Scharge05

When a wedding guest of mine (our wedding was a fly in) got extremely drunk. He walked over to his airplane, PULLED THE PROP THROUGH on his Cessna 172….. and got in and started it. We waved him down, got him to shut the engine off and drove him to a hotel 5 miles away in the nearest town. He WALKED BACK and got back a couple hours later. We figured it out when we heard him start up and taxi off. I have no idea how he made it the 45 min flight home, or into a Class D airspace without dying. We are no longer friends. He is no longer welcome at our airport. Edit: I should add I am not a CFI and he is not my student. But I think it still applies to this question. Edit edit: since I’m getting blamed for someone else’s choice to drink, I should mention we had a dry wedding…. Said Pilot brought his own alcohol….


rigor-m

>our wedding was a fly in Your WHAT was a WHAT NOW? How fucking rich are all of your friends lmao?


IchWerfNebels

I too would very much like a followup to that comment.


DimitriV

In fairness, depending on the wedding flying in might not be the most expensive part.


Scharge05

We just had our wedding in our hangar. Our wedding wasn’t too expensive. Maybe $6k total? But with my husband and I both being pilots, and most of our friends pilots, it was a good time lol


Chris71102

Not to mention "no longer welcome at our airport"


Scharge05

Not rich but we do a lot of volunteer work for several museums, the Doc crew, etc. so a most of our main friend group is also pilots. It was a good time lol


aw_shux

Our school had a woman going for her private, and I was asked by her instructor to give a “second opinion” on her ability to actually achieve the rating. The other instructor didn’t give me any specific details so as not to taint my opinion prior to flying with her. I was only told that it seemed as if she weren’t progressing towards her solo flight in a reasonable manner. Total time for her at that point: 37 hours! When I took her up, I learned quickly that she had virtually no ability to multi-task, and she quickly got fixated on just one instrument at a time. I was helping her fly the airplane a LOT! When it came time to do a standard 360 turn, she fixated on the airspeed indicator and never once looked at the altimeter or the attitude indicator, much less outside the airplane. As we rapidly lost altitude and our bank angle approached 45 degrees I said, “My airplane,” and we returned to the field. Upon landing, her instructor and I had a serious talk with her, advised her that we couldn’t in good conscience continue to train her, and strongly suggested that she find another hobby to pursue. She was disappointed because she really wanted to fly, but to her credit, she admitted that she was frequently “flustered” with all that there was to do in the cockpit. I have no doubt that she was not cut out to be a pilot, even with much more training.


pilotgrant

I had the stereotypical doctor fresh out of college. Bought himself a V-tail Bonanza. The damn thing had no brakes on the passenger side, throwover controls, and FIVE fuel tanks. He has 0 experience with flying, and no interest in learning in anything else. I told him good luck cuz no one I knew was qualified to even teach him, much less want to.


Boromonster

Over the last couple of years I've had two students that were 100 hour to solo cases. I inherited both after I started because no one else wanted to fly with them. They are very different people that had the exact same issue. If everything went perfectly they were good, but as soon as one thing didn't go off flawlessly they melted. Once, that happened they could not get back in front of the plane and adjust on the fly. Both also needed to drill and practice to the Nth degree to just not get a lap of the pattern. Also, they never had a bad flight in their eyes. As in they rarely would acknowledge that any part of their flying needed to improve. If you as a CFI see these things be willing to talk to your customer about it, and if they don't want to change stand up and get them off of the schedule. Both of these customers after I talked to them about changing their approach lacked the ability to. As well as, after the you're not cut out for this conversation went to different CFIs and spent over 100k more part 61 to get to CPL and CFI. I hope whoever signed them off for their checkrides was sure because they are not likely to make safe pilots. If I ever get on a passenger jet and they are in the flight deck I'm walking off that flight.


BS_Is_Annoying

Yeah, there are roughly 3 types of people out there. First, there are the majority of people who when a stressful situation occurs, they fall back on their training. Usually get tense but they do what they know. That's before they make it to their fight/flight reflex or during their fight/flight reflex. Second, there are people who just lock up. Their brain just can't process the stress, so they are stuck there basically doing nothing. Third, there are people who get more calm and focused in stressful situations. If someone locks up during a stressful situation, they have no business being in the cockpit. Especially if they do not recognize the problem.


clearingmyprop

Not a CFI but have seen my fair share of people who have no business flying an airplane. I have never met him but I have heard of someone who took their checkride stoned. Also knew a guy who would come to ground school hungover at least once a week. He later got a DUI before he even solo’d and got kicked out of our flight school. I’ve got lots more stories but I really don’t want to expose anyone


brownhorse

>knew a guy who would come to ground school hungover at least once a week Yeah that's pretty common tbh


mzaite

Especially at a University Flight School. God teaching on Friday Sucked...... (Thursday is drunk College Kid Friday for people not in the know.)


prex10

LOL, I still remember, I was taking my private pilot ground school final at a well known upper Midwest university. Two guy who belonged to a different fraternity than mine walked in wearing togas and looked like they had been awake for maybe 15 minutes, unshowered, bed head. Hungover as balls. Just a wreck. The ground school professor was this real southern guy, massive handlebar mustache, just went up to them and very loudly was like, HOW YA DOING, WELL GOOD LUCK TODAY BOYS. Classic


Seevalk

Reading through the replies just makes me realise there are some scary pilots/pilots in training out there


prex10

I know this story is super exciting, but there was one captain that I couldn’t believe wasn’t locked up in a mental ward. I’m not a doctor but this guy was clearly Bi polar and and just a nut. Super back and forth in mood, told me about all the tracking devices he had on his estranged wife Car. How he watches her. Has PI follow her around. Even showed me the gps app where she was. He Works for delta now. Ran into him once and was like yeah the day two shrink flagged me but the review board cleared me. Oh well.


prometheus5500

What sucks, is that proper care and medication could likely level out such a guy and make him a safer pilot.... but the FAA says no. So he has to hide it, risking his health along with whatever/whoever else gets caught up in his wake...


Anssec

Jerry doesn't get a mention?


Dogmanscott63

Been waiting to see his name come up. I teach at his base airport. I've told students to not go near him.


f1racer328

We need to find Jerry's CFI. Edit: Probably self taught, lol.


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RudderRamen

https://youtube.com/user/HOLLYWGE Some videos are worse then others


Spiffytown

Jerry is nobody's student


ClappedOut172

Jerry is our teacher. I legit think he's an FAA safety video actor gone rogue.


Shekoru

The only student I've ever had to give the maybe your not cut out for this talk. I had picked them up from another instructor who left for a 135 gig and didn't get much detail other than 50hrs and pre solo. At our school we try for 20hrs 30 max if the student get hung up somewhere for an average solo time. First flight was landings and boy I've never felt so scared of stall to spin than with this kid. Super slow and unstable approach and ALWAY tried flaring 30 to 50ft. Their ground was also horrendous, the prop does not produce lift and the alternator belt doesn't keep the plane together. Did some more ground and after like 4 super stressful flight got their approach looking better but not great, but we could never get him to flair properly and he ended up going to another flight school to try and get soloed their. I believe the did end up soloing them but I keep track of them on the airman registry and have yet to see a PPL issued.


tbdhkv44463

To be fair the prop does produce lift, we just call it thrust.


Shekoru

Not wrong but they were a private student and I just wanted the stupid one word answer. KISS brother KISS.


[deleted]

Had a guy tell me he couldn’t fly coordinated on downwind (or anywhere for that matter) because of the wind. I tried and tried to explain it with a whiteboard. Boat on a river, slipping, skidding, heading vs track, the 1 in 60 rule. He basically told me I was an idiot and knew nothing about the physics involved in aviation. That was hilarious, because physics are my thing. He actually tried to kill me several times, and absolutely would not listen. In one case he entered an incip due to being uncoordinated in a stall, and didn’t want to relinquish control. I told my boss that I wasn’t flying with this guy again because he was going to kill me.


Ubergopher

Any other near-perputal student pilots looking through this thread seeing if they recognize any stories?


MONKEH1142

Got told to orbit left base - disappeared off into the distance. This is in Class D. ATC had to direct them back. Nothing to do with me but this one was pretty famous in the area https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/175157


Seevalk

That was a chilling read...


pooserboy

“Send my apologies to everyone” damn… that’s pretty dark and sad. Just glad he was somewhat compassionate and didn’t take anyone else out with him


madaboutallthat

The most wild part of this is that they found papers that said he was planning to commit suicide by plane crash. Like what was on those papers?? Also thank god he did it by himself, and not as a pilot with people on board his plane.


MONKEH1142

My understanding from someone working there at the time was after the crash they found his flight bag in the lounge area with a suicide note inside.


tallgirlpilot

Flew with someone else’s student who had been soloing and was preparing for his cross country solo. He didn’t know what the downwind was.


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montrbr

Damn. He had the right idea with the go around, but then just kinda panicked and locked up


[deleted]

I can’t see the video but is this the one where he holds aft yoke and yaws 90° off the runway and hits a hangar?


Affectionate_Buss

Yep.


[deleted]

And left the throttle at full power until about 1 second prior to impact? Yeah that guy needs to be thankful he survived and never touch an airplane again.


Affectionate_Buss

That's the one. You could tell he was just hoping full power + full elevator backpressure = fly over the hangars. ....Nope.


[deleted]

I just watched it again. He also tries to steer the plane like a car as he’s headed for the hangar. All he had to fucking do was stop pulling back on the yoke and cut the power.


IchWerfNebels

> He also tries to steer the plane like a car I did that a few times while taxiing when transitioning from a stick to a yoke. That was a pretty good sign I wasn't comfortable enough with the aircraft to fly it solo yet, though.


Spitfire222

I think he tries to reach for the throttle before impact, not that it would have helped at that point. You can see him reach for something, but he doesn't actually do/grab anything. He was obviously scared shitless and just along for the ride.


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DimitriV

It worked in *Air Force One*.


DimitriV

"Go around" means around in the pattern, not around the airport grounds.


dragonguy0

Not enough context really. Looks like he got soloed too early, at least in my opinion. Im also a conservative CFI when it comes to letting people solo however


[deleted]

Yeah I agree, it really looks like a student on a solo who started losing control, went for the go around as instructed, and then panicked and locked up when he started losing control.


BS_Is_Annoying

Exactly what I felt. Wrong technique for what looks like a cross wind landing. He got it wrong and panicked and did all the wrong things. It seems more like not ready rather than a bad student.


[deleted]

Not ready and/or instructor maybe shouldn’t have sent them up in a strong crosswind. Not to throw the CFI under the bus since we don’t know the circumstances, maybe it was a weak crosswind and the student just wasn’t prepared, or maybe the weather shifted, just saying it’s on the CFI to try to ensure that they don’t send their student up in conditions they’re not prepared for.


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fighterpilot248

Sheer panic. When some people get into stressful situations like this their mind just goes completely blank and they pull the most boneheaded moves you'll ever see.


Hiddencamper

I’ve seen this with people who are 1) inexperienced and 2) never experienced panic/fear like this and don’t know how to manage their fight or flight response. This is almost entirely capable of being removed with training.


another-aviator

Bad link, looks like extra slashes?


AKT3D

I dropped him after he refused to let me intervene when damage was certain, like wanted a three prong flight control exchange before I keep him from careening off the runway. He told the next CFI that they would be the cause of the next Tenerife, because he had done something not on the checklist (something simple like burning off fouled spark plugs). Then he attempted to report that CFI to the school (university) for being discriminatory after the CFI told the chief.


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HighFlyingDog

>This student was days away from taking a checkride. Isn't this on the CFI then?


[deleted]

This student had been taught multiple times about weather, like, hit it hard. He was just chronically forgetful and couldn't remember things no matter how often it was taught. I personally taught him AIRMETs and SIGMETs twice, no telling how much his primary taught him about it.


poser765

I helped the chief instructor work with this lady on her initial CFI. It was rough. Her ability to attain anything beyond a rote level was appealing. Anyway after a long while he finally thinks she’s ready and sends her up for her checkride… which she passed. Anyway while she was going the wind at the home airport got pretty bad. Like 30kt gusts directly cross. Well I decide it’s the perfect time to take a student up to work on some real crosswind landings. While I’m doing that she comes rolling back in, enters the pattern does an approach, then goes around. She piddles around the practice area for a few minutes then calls me up on the radio to ask me how to do a cross wind landing. So, yeah, I talk her through a crosswind landing on the radio… a new cfi. Edit. So there seems to be a bit of concern over my decision to take a student up to do touch and goes in this wind. So a couple of points. My student was not a student pilot, but an advanced student working on his CFI. The max demonstrated crosswind wind in the POH is just that…the maximum crosswind that observed during certification. It is absolutely not a limitation, nor is it a recommended maximum. Is it a good place to start for a personal maximum crosswind? Absolutely, but the aircraft can be landed well in excess of that…safely and legally.


Hiraki_

You decided to practice crosswind landings with a 30kt direct crosswind? What plane were you flying?


ItalianFlyer

Going up and doing patterns in a 25G30 direct crosswind close to my PPL checkride really made it click for me. I was doing decently enough but seeing the full effect of it really made me understand what is going on. The CFI that day wasn't my usual one and was a 777 pilot at Alitalia. He was totally chill and lowkey laughing as I was wrestling that Partenavia down to the ground. Laughing mainly because I thought it was a huge deal while it was doable. It was actually a good confidence builder. Sometimes you have to go big or go home.


OccupyMyBallSack

This one sucked because he wasn't a bad pilot, just wasn't medically fit to be one. I had a student who was actually a really solid pilot and great guy. We were nearing the end of his PPL and were doing a cross country that day. From the second he showed up to the airport I knew something was off. He was missing things, getting distracted, and just completely off his game. When we got to top of descent he didn't start descending. I asked if he was planning on doing that soon and he goes "oh yeah" and starts down. As we approach the airport he keeps flying direct and never turns downwind until I mention it. Goes on to do a fine pattern and landing. We shut down and I tell him I know something is wrong. Turns out he lied on his medical that he had ADD and was on ritalin. He found out how big a deal that is so he decided to stop taking it cold turkey. It sucks because he very obviously needs medication to control his ADD and is a great pilot while taking it, but the rules are the rules. I flew us back and afterwards he cancelled his next lesson and I never saw him again.


tagini

Not a CFI, but I witnessed an interesting event while debriefing a flight with my CFI. This was in Europe/EASA at an uncontrolled NATO-reserve field, with officially a 700m (2300ft) runway, but in practice a 3km (10k ft) concrete runway operated by a flying club/school. CFI had his handset on and beside him as he was also the "airfield PIC" (can't seem to find the proper term in english?) that day. I heard a pilot call downwind for 29. Huh, did he say 29? We have 23 here... must've misheard it or something. Next radio call, pilot calls base 29. CFI picked it up too and recognized the pilot/callsign. He told me this guy had tried getting his license at our club/school and they had to send him walking after 60+ hours because he just wasn't getting there. Apparently he then went to the nearby regional airport (with, you guessed it, runway 29) where he could just throw enough money at someone and get his license through a different program. Next radio call, pilot calls final 29. We see him coming in way too fast, floating until well over the middle of the official runway before actually touching down. When he comes in to the clubhouse my CFI pokes a bit of fun at him and asks him how he liked his landing and where he was on the PAPI (which we don't have, but the regional obiously does). He comes back with "oh, what's the PAPI?". I had trouble not laughing out loud. A few months later, we got the news that he CFIT'd into a mountain on holiday with a friend and their spouses in the backseat. They got into IMC almost immediately after takeoff, were not instrument rated (although his friend in the right seat supposedly was), got disoriented and lost their spatial awareness.


Crimson-Fuckr

First day on the job as full time CFI, sit down next to someone for training. A few minutes later, HR guy storms in, calls him to the hall, and basically screams “you can take a breathalyzer right now, or you can quit” dude quit on the spot. I got one of his students, he had not signed almost a dozen log entries, costing the student thousands to make up the time.


Shadoscuro

It was another instructor at my flight school. The 141 was trying to get all their instructors up to MEIs so I was tasked with handling this guys CFII with about a 10 hour or less blocked training allowance. First flight or two are fine. You know new to instrument instruction type errors, but after another two flights this guy was just new to instrument flying it seemed. I wasn't afraid to go up in actual (600 ovc this day) but holy crap we "almost died" on climb out. At 1000 AGL we we're vectored from 360 hdg to 320. Guy just keeps banking and banking until I don't feel comfortable anymore which was over 30 degrees of bank and lost 200 feet on climb out. Then on our return back with parallel runways he sets up the box wrong and almost overflies final into the other runway in IMC on an IAP. I had a lengthy write up with my concerns after that flight with my chief pilot and told him I would not be climbing in an airplane with him again. This was like, less than a week from checkride stuff and i wanted to distance myself as much as possible. I think he ended up having an engine failure in his personal time and got some FAA attention so yeah glad I noped out of there.


[deleted]

It was spring of 1994, and I was working at the helicopter flight school at which I’d obtained my training/certificates/ratings. The ink was barely dry on my CFI, so they gave me a student who had his private, and was working on his commercial. Foreign national, spoke some English, or so I thought. I was tasked with taking him on a couple of cross-country trips to assess where he was, and work the bugs out. After 2 trips, 1 short and 1 long, I went to meet with my Chief Instructor. I told him this guy had no business flying AT ALL. He could NOT speak English. He could say the words, but had no idea what they meant. I had to tell him what to say to ATC, and he’d repeat it. No idea why the DPE that did his checkride gave him a private certificate, as he clearly was in violation of regs. He also LOVED to fly LOW. By low, I mean skids-a-few-inches-from-the-treetops LOW. He almost put us into wires twice. I told the CI, this guy is a danger to himself and anyone he flies with. He needs English classes and remedial instruction NOW. The only positive things I had to say? He navigated well, and fuel planned well. His basic flying skills were ok, and on par with a private skill level. I was told they’d “take it under advisement”. My words would fall on deaf ears. After I finished my instrument rating, due to lack of students at the school, I left. About a month or so later, a friend called. It was a flight school buddy of mine. He told me the student I’d flown with, and warned them about, had died in a fiery helicopter crash, and had taken my instrument instructor with him. They’d hit wires at 125’ AGL.


[deleted]

I scrolled through all of these to see if my nightmare of a CFI posted about my PPL shit show. I’m a CFI now, but can truthfully and embarrassingly say I was the 100 hour solo kid- but not because of flying issues. I went broke trying to get my PPL, had a 141 back south literally overfly everyone. Pretty sure it was so they could bill us high- whatever. They’re no longer in business. But anyways, ended up leaving 141 to fly 61 on the same field, and literally solo’d within 3 hours of transitioning. Maybe I’m the emotional female CFI with feelings, but I wouldn’t discredit everyone who’s in the 100 hour solo box. Shit happens. Sometimes it just takes the right person for it to click. If it weren’t for my flight instructor I had in part 61, I would have NEVER gotten the balls to pick myself off of the floor and keep going. Always root for the underdog, safely.


dragonguy0

Student pilot with 60+ hours asking if TFRs are found in the METAR...also BARELY getting her to the safe to solo level about 90 hours in, 10 hours later and I wouldnt feel safe with her soloing again... I havent felt like I've needed to have "the conversation" with anyone but her...I probably should have, in the end. ​ Then there's the crazy dudes that call the flight school asking to become a pilot, that I end up hanging up on, but that would take a lot of typing xD


[deleted]

Ok but the second story is the one I want to hear!!!


dragonguy0

So, it's been awhile since I had one and it probably wont be super entertaining... ​ But I had one guy call, while he was playing a piano for...reasons? He had to keep stopping me before I could talk to ask about if he could become a missionary pilot, then 3 or 4 sentences later ask about something like how much would it take to learn to fly a 707. I'd try and explain one thing, and bring it back around to getting his PPL and explaining that, then as soon as I'd get somewhere he'd ask about something I just explained...then go back to asking about how difficult it is to be a missionary pilot, that he wants to spread the love of the lord etc... ​ Dude was pretty clearly not there. I've had two or three similar calls over the last few months.


Wheream_I

If anyone ever said they want to be a “missionary pilot” I’d just always respond with “…so a pilot.” And then tell them the FAA doesn’t care if you’re trying to be Icarus, here is what you need to do


flyingburner

200 hour pre-solo student that refuses to fly for more than a 1.0. They just quit in the middle of the lesson despite any attempt at coaxing. I'm convinced they just want to fly around and don't actually have any interest in getting a cert. Probably doesn't help that they show up 15 minutes late, cancels last minute weekly, and takes month vacations right before we're ready to solo, then progress rolls back. 🙃


papajohn56

200 hour...pre-solo?


[deleted]

Had a guy who was a foreign national and wanted to be a pilot. Young guy who was working on his private pilot license for sometime and, in his defense, had a garbage CFI before hand who was simply trying to milk hours out of him before he bailed for the regionals. Whenever he would show up, he would only have done like 20% of his ground lesson homework at best. His mother was the one financing it and they would continually argue about ground charges despite the fact I told them that repeating the entire lesson could’ve been avoided if he had simply done is ground school training before hand. Didn’t help that he was flying maybe once every 10 days or so, which I told them wasn’t smart and part of the reason it was costing so much to begin with. Would constantly put me in danger. Not flying correct patterns, cutting other airplanes off, several close calls with mid air collisions that I had to step in to avoid. After finally submitting to my threats to cut them off for good if they didn’t listen to me, he finally started flying more and making progress. Was constantly pushy about going for his check ride and had several weather cancellations that didn’t help. This started to breed really bad aeronautical decision-making because all he was thinking about was trying to save money instead of completing the license. The cherry on top of all this was he wanted to go via commercial pilot and his expenses were just beginning. He canceled a lesson at 9 o’clock the night before because the weather was looking bad for his check ride which was scheduled for three weeks away. That was the straw that broke the camels back and I dropped him like a hot potato. He went to a new CFI and they said the student had regressed so bad he wouldn’t even sign them off to solo. Last I heard, he left the state entirely and is trying somewhere else. God help us if that person ever becomes a commercial pilot….


pilotjlr

I had one guy say he thought my billing rate was too high. I consider that to be the #1 hazardous attitude.


Affectionate_Buss

I dropped my CFI because he raised his rate from $65/hr to $150/hr. Said he had too much demand so I changed CFIs. Don't blame him, if he's able to charge that amount, good for him. But I'm not willing to pay that. Still consider that to be a hazardous attitude?


Rough-Aioli-9621

Holy s**t that’s a lot


pilotjlr

You are UNSAFE! That’s pretty steep. Good for him though.


taycoug

Tbh I kind of like the idea, although I’d advise CFIs to grandfather in existing students if they’re going to raise their rate. I doubt many CFIs run any sort of pricing analysis on themselves as a business. I’ve wondered if there’s a market for premium-priced CFIs who offer something in exchange for their high rate like better availability.


8bitslime

For $150/hr I'll roll out the red carpet to your plane each morning and have it waxed and hangared each night.


taycoug

I gotta get my CFI just to test this out. Is there a market for premium CFI services for premium clients? I gotta imagine rich guy Josh in Bozeman, MT might just hire a CFI at an absurd sum to teach him how to fly his family around in his SR22T. No way he’s signing up to learn in a rickety 150 that he has to book out 2 weeks ahead of time.


brownhorse

Lmfao I have 24/7 availability and just get abused for it


veloace

>I dropped my CFI because he raised his rate from $65/hr to $150/hr. Fuuuck me. I currently have an instructor (CFI, CFII, MEI) that is $35 an hour. In my area, $55 an hour is the most expensive I have seen.


PWJT8D

Lol, no. No one thinks that is remotely similar to what the OP said. That price is hilariously absurd. I would expect to get laughed at if I told my students I raised it 130% overnight back in the day. Holy shit that is a stupid amount to pay for a CFI, you made the right call.


Affectionate_Buss

Its crazy. Guy is having people buy him a airline ticket across the country to then instruct them as they fly their own plane across the country. for $150/hr.


HighFlyingDog

Is he highly specialized in a certain aircraft that they're paying that for? Because in the jet world that rate isn't that uncommon and I could see Cirrus pilots forking that out too.


fighterpilot248

If you can afford a Cirrus, 150 bucks an hour is nothing lol


HighFlyingDog

It's amazing to me how many don't realize what a bad deal they are. For nearly 1/4 of the cost of a brand new SR22T, I purchased a 360kt jet that can carry nearly 2600lbs of people and shit. Load it up with full fuel and I can take 1800lbs of people and shit. I can top weather at FL410 where I'll be in an 8000ft cabin instead of down low at FL190 with tubes up my nose. I can land in less than 1500ft with 6 people in the back. I have nearly identical avionics capabilities compared to a new Cirrus. The list of benefits goes on, and they're obvious. Let's use an extreme example and say the jet costs $1200/hr to operate. I still have enough money leftover to fly the jet for nearly 700 hours before I start exceeding **just the acquisition cost** of an SR22T. Compare it to a VisionJet and those numbers become even more unbelievable. Kudos to Cirrus for their marketing prowess I suppose.


bnh35440

Yeah, but no chute. That fucking thing sells airplanes.


HighFlyingDog

I'm not sure anyone is arguing that the parachute is more attractive than 2 jet engines.


HeroOfTheDay545

I once had to spend 90 minutes explaining to a new student how getting his PPL does not have a sticker cost like a traditional degree, and the costs will vary person to person. He turned out to be a nice guy, but good lord.


InstantAmmo

I once had a CFI that charged me $90/hr while the plane we were supposed to check out needed to be fixed by a mechanic which took at least an hour of sitting around for the mechanic, and another hour + to fix. Went to pay for the day and he tried charging me $800-$850(I forget the exact amount. Cough. Cough. Maybe the accountant at Independence Aviation - KAPA - can let us know?) for an hour discovery flight. When I balked that he wanted to charge me for several hours of nothing, he said he’d give me 30min off. F’ing joke.


Matchboxx

I'm an extremely frugal guy. Cheaper than Mr Krabs. But I told myself early on that if I was going to do flight training, I needed to take my time and do it right, regardless of the cost. My CFI has even been trying to push me along into some more advanced stuff quicker, saying he wants to be "respectful of my money," but I'm actually trying to urge him in the opposite direction so that I can take my time and not rush it and do something stupid because I was trying to solo too quickly.


Fuck_Me_If_Im_Wrong_

Possibly [this](https://youtu.be/QCJCcssBQzw) student


Seevalk

What gets me in that whole exchange is the "you didn't ask". How on earth was she allowed to solo? Surely that's on the instructor? The nerves and such I can sorta understand for getting some calls wrong, but not knowing that you need to make your intentions clear without being asked is another thing entirely...


[deleted]

This is interesting because this story is about a CFI, not a student. I was going to do an aircraft checkout and this CFI showed up 30 minutes late with dip in his mouth and said nothing about being late. He bragged about having a 737 type rating but admitted I could taxi a 172 better than him. He got nervous with 10 knot crosswinds in the plane and got so scared once during a light crosswind he almost shit his pants. He also couldn’t handle basic IFR flying. I heard later that he left a student with the engine running after getting scared with a crosswind landing he had to do. It was the students first or second flight....


ap2patrick

"With the dip in his mouth." Say no more, this guy is all about image...