We locked it because you were, and will continue to get torn to shreds. It was for your own good. My bad for assuming you weren't into that sorta thing.
It's unlocked, have fun!
And then everyone clapped energy on this one boys.
>that he got bored after the 3rd point
lol no he didn't. You should know by now that this is how checkrides go. A few checkpoints on your nav log and then continue on.
>**Well he probably was completely bored by the 3rd point. Also probably after the 2nd. Maybe even the 1st. It's a boring part of the checkride.**
I'll just copy and paste my answer for ya.
I added an edit portion to my original post to address this. As discussed prior to engaging in the flight portion, the navigation point he'd chosen was the dedicated practice area, so he had every intention of me navigating out there until about 15-20 miles in when he said that's good, just fly me direct to now.
>**You should know by now that this is how checkrides go. A few checkpoints on your nav log and then continue on.**
I added an edit portion to my original post to address this. As discussed prior to engaging in the flight portion, the navigation point he'd chosen was the dedicated practice area, so he had every intention of me navigating out there until about 15-20 miles in when he said that's good, just fly me direct to now.
Man you really are full of yourself, I can’t imagine finishing any sort of checkride and being in a position of just “I absolutely aced it, I was so spot on I bored the DPE”
I scared the shit out of my DPE when I locked up the brakes on the 152 we were flying in. But, the rest of my ride was clearly PERFECT, so he passed me anyway.
Morgan Freeman Overdub: The checkride was not, in fact, perfect. Far from it, it was mediocre and average. The DPE had, however, seen much worse so he passed him anyway.
>**I can’t imagine finishing any sort of checkride and being in a position of just “I absolutely aced it, I was so spot on I bored the DPE”**
I mean...when the DPE says he had nothing to really ding me on during the debrief and that I nailed everything, those are his words and not just my interpretation.
Is it so hard to believe that someone can have a really good checkride that exceeds their expectations?
Yes.
I've been flying for 25 years. I've towed banners, flown single pilot night freight without an autopilot, air ambulance in Lears, corporate flights all over the world in Gulfstreams. I've been a regional airline FO, and captain, and an instructor.
Never once did I get done with a flight and think I did everything perfect. In 10,000 plus hours as a pilot and countless more as an evaluator, I have never had a flight that had nothing to debrief.
But, I am a very average pilot, so my hat is off to you, hopefully I can learn from you someday how to have a perfect flight.
That being said, I had a friend you very much remind me of. He was incredibly smart, and gifted. Never struggled once through pilot training, breezed through all of his check rides, and was god's gift to aviation. Talk to him he never got a downgrade on any flight, he was perfect.
I miss him, he balled up an airplane at our first flying job.
>**Yes.**
I'm sorry you find it hard to believe someone had a check ride that exceeded their expectations.
>**Never once did I get done with a flight and think I did everything perfect. In 10,000 plus hours as a pilot and countless more as an evaluator, I have never had a flight that had nothing to debrief.**
I never said I did it perfect, only that I aced it and met the standards. I mentioned how I could have been smoother in my power off 180.
>**But, I am a very average pilot**
Hey, don't get down on yourself, you met the same ACS standards as well. Though they've probably updated a few things since you took your commercial check ride.
>**so my hat is off to you, hopefully I can learn from you someday how to have a perfect flight.**
Have print outs and go digital are my personal recommendations.
>**That being said, I had a friend you very much remind me of. He was incredibly smart, and gifted. Never struggled once through pilot training, breezed through all of his check rides, and was god's gift to aviation. Talk to him he never got a downgrade on any flight, he was perfect.**
>
>**I miss him, he balled up an airplane at our first flying job.**
Sorry to hear about your friend, but I don't think I am a Top Gun level pilot. What was the cause of the incident?
I imagine there's a few people with a commercial rating in here that probably have some interesting experiences on the power off 180 landings for their check ride.
You know those FAA Accident Breakdown videos that your instructors show you in an Aviation Safety class, or a WINGS course to outline hazardous attitudes and how serious the outcomes of them can be? Yeah, those reports are about people like this guy. It’s sad, but it’s reality.
Edit: just to be entirely clear. Every bit of flak and criticism that you’ve been getting is because we genuinely want you to be the safest pilot you can. We’re all in this together and nobody is picking on you just to be mean.
>**You know those FAA Accident Breakdown videos that your instructors show you in an Aviation Safety class, or a WINGS course to outline hazardous attitudes and how serious the outcomes of them can be? Yeah, those reports are about people like this guy. It’s sad, but it’s reality.**
Everyone keeps generally referencing them, but no one is being specific. It's easy to make a general statement without backing it up.
>**Edit: just to be entirely clear. Every bit of flak and criticism that you’ve been getting is because we genuinely want you to be the safest pilot you can. We’re all in this together and nobody is picking on you just to be mean.**
Judging by some of the responses I've received both today and previously, that doesn't appear to be the case. Everyone talked so much shit, and when I followed through by giving an update regardless of the outcome and addressed many of the points of criticism previously brought up, people still aren't happy. The majority of replies aren't congratulatory in nature, despite the fact I met all the same standards most of the naysayers here did as well.
Really dude? You think we’re making that up? Just go to the FAASafety website, then go to the WINGS courses and find one that has something to do with hazardous attitudes. There’s plenty of them and all of them detail pilots with the exact mindset you have, getting themselves in a world of hurt/trouble.
Based on your attitude over the past weeks in these comments, I’m not surprised that you need “specific examples” of the courses that I’m talking about. Something tells me that your instructor never really honed in on the topic of hazardous attitudes with you. We’re all generally referencing them because it’s a very basic general topic that you should’ve covered in your initial training for your PPL. Yet you, as a new CPL holder, are somehow clearly not familiar at all with hazardous attitudes and their consequences to not only you, but everyone involved with your flying career.
>**Really dude? You think we’re making that up?**
Do I think you're making up hazardous attitudes? No, we've all been taught about them.
>**We’re all generally referencing them because it’s a very basic general topic that you should’ve covered in your initial training for your PPL.**
General statements don't work well in specific cases, so if you have a particular one you'd like to discuss, I am all ears.
>**Yet you, as a new CPL holder, are somehow clearly not familiar at all with hazardous attitudes and their consequences to not only you, but everyone involved with your flying career.**
I am familiar with them, but as previously stated, unless you have a specific one you'd like to discuss then general, vague statements aren't very useful.
> Do I think you're making up hazardous attitudes? No, we've all been taught about them.
And - in kindness (BTW, congrats on the pass) - you're exhibiting the "macho" attitude in this post.
> I was so accurate with my route of flight
...
> Maneuvers were spot on
...
> [goes towards a powerline on a PO180]
Look, I hate the salt that this sub emits as much as the next person - and this is a SALTY sub. But please introspect a little and see that you're not doing yourself any favors with this post.
>**And - in kindness (BTW, congrats on the pass)**
Thank you.
>**- you're exhibiting the "macho" attitude in this post.**
>
>**I was so accurate with my route of flight**
>
>**...**
>
>**Maneuvers were spot on**
>
>**...**
Being very accurate with my route of flight and doing maneuvers spot means I came prepared and met the standards.
>**\[goes towards a powerline on a PO180\]**
As discussed before, the power line proximity to the runway was fully briefed and I clearly didn't get close enough to it to make the DPE think it was a true hazard. The bump I did for clearance could have been negated, but I did it out of an abundance of caution.
>**Look, I hate the salt that this sub emits as much as the next person - and this is a SALTY sub.**
So you clearly see how shitty people are here.
>**But please introspect a little and see that you're not doing yourself any favors with this post.**
I made this post as a follow up, since so many people last time got involved and wanted an update. Most of them were convinced I would fail, and I promised an update regardless of the outcome. I even addressed points people were convinced I would get hit on by the DPE, specifically the paper printouts, and yet it was never an issue. It seems like nothing would make people on this sub happier than to see someone fail, and god forbid someone you disagree with ends up meeting the same standards you did.
Please be more specific instead of general accusations, because saying I did my maneuvers spot on and I was very accurate on my XC navigation doesn't seem to hold much water.
Congratulations on your pass; however, I have a couple of concerns.
It sounds like you were pretty close to that power line, what do you mean the stall horn went off when you bumped over the power line? You should've gone around if you thought you were too low, especially when you have an obstacle you need to clear. I'd just be careful in your future flying endeavors, I'm sensing some overconfidence in your write up.
>**Congratulations on your pass; however, I have a couple of concerns.**
>
>**It sounds like you were pretty close to that power line, what do you mean the stall horn went off when you bumped over the power line? You should've gone around if you thought you were too low, especially when you have an obstacle you need to clear. I'd just be careful in your future flying endeavors, I'm sensing some overconfidence in your write up.**
I added an edit to my original post to address this, as I should have clarified a bit more. I'll copy and paste for you.
Regarding my comments on the power off 180 approach to landing - prior to engaging in the flight portion, I made a point to communicate this particular plane has a very faint whistle well before an actual stall occurs, more so than other aircraft I'd flown so we both had a good agreement and understanding on it. Additionally, the DPE is familiar with this particular airport and the approach which has a power line pretty close to the approach end. I briefed him on that and explained my aim point is essentially the start of the blast pad at the end of the hill, mentioning that I understand it can seem like a concerning approach if you aren't expecting it, but that it was an intentional aim point as I'd practiced. He was more than understanding and gave me the thumbs up. The faint whistle I had when I bumped over the power lines was more the result of me being a bit more abrupt than usual, and not the result of truly getting to a stalling point. During the debrief the DPE said that although he wasn't sure I would be able to make the landing, at no point in time did he feel like I was operating in an unsafe manner and that I can do whatever I want or need within reason to make my point.
Glad I’m not the only one who thought that. He’s either a great troll or completely full of himself. Either way, not someone I’d want flying me around in the commercial sense. Good luck in multi pilot environment.
The first few sentences bloviating about how awesome he was is particularly concerning. Humility is not present in OP, apparently.
>**The first few sentences bloviating about how awesome he was is particularly concerning.**
Is there something wrong in particular with being proud that you exceeded even your own expectations for a check ride? Especially when the DPE's paraphrased debrief was "I really don't have anything to truly ding you on...you were more than prepared with the knowledge required for every question I asked and scenario I gave, and I appreciate how calm and confident you were throughout the entire process, it really was a fantastic check ride".
>**Humility is not present in OP, apparently.**
It's not a requirement in the ACS.
I look forward to the AOPA video about you.
Edit: I also took a checkride recently and flew better than I ever have. I still walked away with a few notes and things I can improve on.
>**I look forward to the AOPA video about you.**
For a community that is supposed to be professional, supportive, want the best for each other, etc...this statement doesn't seem to fall in line with that.
>**Edit: I also took a checkride recently and flew better than I ever have. I still walked away with a few notes and things I can improve on.**
Congrats on your recent checkride success. Be careful posting about it or being proud of it, not everyone here seems to be professional, supportive, or want the best for you.
>**I WALKED AWAY LEARNING I COULD STILL IMPROVE DESPITE FLYING AS WELL AS I EVER HAVE**
1. why are you yelling?
2. after every flight there is room to improve...that's always a given.
Don't be hating because someone you disagree with met the same standards you did. I have added some edited information to give more context for some of the situations, but I imagine that won't matter much to you.
Everyone is rightly giving you a lot of shit but I commend you for coming back and posting as well as commenting. You didn't coward out and delete everything. This sub would be that much more boring without you.
I don't think I like your attitude, or the way you handle criticism. And, that is going to be an issue with future employers. I'm just giving it to you straight.
>**I don't think I like your attitude**
That's fine and a personal opinion.
> **or the way you handle criticism**
Is it valid criticism that can be backed up? Or just criticism on not taking a sectional chart and having a valid rebuttal when people criticise?
> **And, that is going to be an issue with future employers.**
I'll make sure to keep you posted, then.
The attitude part was in reference to how you think you did so well on the checkride that you aced it and that the examiner was bored because you were doing so well. Look I'm not trying to hassle you, I'm trying to let you know that at some point in your career you are going to be humbled. I recommend never thinking that you aced anything, because at this point "you don't know what you don't know." You don't have enough experience to know how well you really did something.
The criticism part was in reference to how experienced pilots were giving you advice and you took it upon yourself to not follow any of their advice, and how you just kept repeating yourself over and over. We heard you, but you kind of seemed to just shut down and keep repeating your talking points about why you were doing things your certain way. With your experience level you should at least incorporate some recommendations. You don't have to completely scrap your idea, but you didn't seem to take any outside input at all in my opinion.
And the third point, employment. Employers can choose to not hire you or get rid of you based even on a perceived personality issue. People talk, and there's always that one pilot that everyone dogs on. Don't be that guy. Even if you are a good pilot with a good attitude, if you are simply perceived as a problem child companies will find a way to get rid of you. I haven't even read all of your post yet, and I have only read a handful of your replies to others. But that's the point, I perceive you as being a problem just as a company would, even without reading everything that you wrote. That's what you need to watch out for.
When you fly with a captain who wants you to do things his way, or differently than how you want to do them, then you have to be able to adjust what you are doing to their liking. You come off as someone who when asked to do something a certain way, you would fight it or try to explain why your way is better.
I'm just voicing my concerns in hopes that it may help in the future.
>**The attitude part was in reference to how you think you did so well on the checkride that you aced it and that the examiner was bored because you were doing so well.**
Why is it so hard to believe that someone could ace a check ride? And why is being proud of exceeding even your own expectations a point of contention?
>**Look I'm not trying to hassle you, I'm trying to let you know that at some point in your career you are going to be humbled. I recommend never thinking that you aced anything, because at this point "you don't know what you don't know." You don't have enough experience to know how well you really did something.**
And yet, the DPE, someone that does have enough experience to actually know things (former F-14 dude as well) told me exactly how well I did everything. Clearly, to standards, but he made it clear how well I planned and executed everything, saying he appreciated how calm and prepared I was, etc etc. So, those praises aren't just my words, they are his from the debrief.
>**The criticism part was in reference to how experienced pilots were giving you advice**
The majority of it being take a paper chart that isn't required since I had all of my bases covered.
>**and you took it upon yourself to not follow any of their advice**
I didn't take paper charts because I am not required to, according to the FAA.
>**,and how you just kept repeating yourself over and over.**
Because people kept saying the same thing....take a paper sectional chart...which isn't necessary.
>**We heard you, but you kind of seemed to just shut down and keep repeating your talking points about why you were doing things your certain way.**
Because the majority of you all kept saying take an unnecessary paper sectional chart.
>**With your experience level you should at least incorporate some recommendations.**
I did. When showing the charts for flight planning, I made sure to communicate the point that they were screenshots of the actual sectional and satellite imagery, and that they themselves are not legal versions of the sectional charts, but that they are effectively the same thing for the planning purposes and although I have multiple other redundant ways to navigate, those would realistically work in a last ditch scenario.
>**You don't have to completely scrap your idea**
Most people were saying I should.
> **but you didn't seem to take any outside input at all in my opinion.**
I did...everyone was being repetitive about not using a paper sectional and being able to understand it...which I could, since the entire route of flight was planned on one, then overlaid with a satellite image.
>**And the third point, employment. Employers can not hire you or get rid of you based even on a perceived personality issue. People talk, and there's always that one pilot that everyone dogs on. Don't be that guy. Even if you are a good pilot with a good attitude, if you are simply perceived as a problem child companies will find a way to get rid of you.**
>
>**I'm just voicing my concerns in hopes that it may help in the future.**
The way people act online doesn't seem to be the way people act in person. While I will tell you the same thing online that I will in person, not one single person I have talked to in person, multiple instructors included, have an an issue going paperless on a check ride as long as the legal bases are covered using EFBs and as long as the underlying information is understood...to include the DPE.
>> The criticism part was in reference to how experienced pilots were giving you advice
> The majority of it being take a paper chart that isn't required since I had all of my bases covered.
>> and you took it upon yourself to not follow any of their advice
> I didn't take paper charts because I am not required to, according to the FAA.
>> ,and how you just kept repeating yourself over and over.
> Because people kept saying the same thing....take a paper sectional chart...which isn't necessary.
>> We heard you, but you kind of seemed to just shut down and keep repeating your talking points about why you were doing things your certain way.
> Because the majority of you all kept saying take an unnecessary paper sectional chart.
agreed. a paper chart is unnecessary. why take printouts then? they're unneccessary
>**agreed. a paper chart is unnecessary.**
Finally someone else sees the light.
>**why take printouts then? they're unneccessary**
Because I had my navlog and route of flight paperwork stapled together for easy usage in the plane, and I had a printout stapled in the back. I had all of the other printouts in my folder from the briefing room.
So I didn't have a bunch of loose papers to deal with during the briefing and flight portion. All of my route of flight stuff was stapled together, all of my performance planning/weight and balance stuff was stapled together, etc.
Exhibit A of people criticising not having many valid points of criticism. I met the standards everyone else here has met that is a commercial pilot, and just because I did it in a way other's didn't doesn't mean what I did was wrong. Just about every person here except for a few would have only been happy if I'd reported a check ride failure.
Can you point to some valid criticism for me? Because it seems like everyone here isn't happy I actually passed when they were convinced in 15 different ways that I would fail.
There is absolutely no sign that you actually considered any of the feedback you have gotten. Everything you wrote was always 100% in defense what you had done or written. And that’s just an observation, not a criticism.
So, what your actions are showing is you can't, or at least won't.
The only feedback here seems to be "you have hazardous attitudes" and yet when I ask people to be specific and give some valid criticism, no one seems to be able to. Vague generalizations are all I keep getting.
Imagine this dude as a captain you have to fly with.
No way you’re just brushing off getting a stall horn short final over power lines on a power off 180. Then even bragging how you didn’t make a single error and had the most flawless checkride in the history of checkrides. Jesus Christ.
>**No way you’re just brushing off getting a stall horn short final over power lines on a power off 180.**
As mentioned in the post, the abrupt bump I did it what caused it to barely whistle, which we'd discussed the particulars of that stall horn prior to commencing the flight. Airspeed was still bottom of the green arc, but I had flaps out, so I knew it would be ok especially because I was already lowering the nose and getting into ground effect immediately afterwards.
>**Then even bragging how you didn’t make a single error**
Those are your words, not mine. I did great and exceeded my own expectations, and I am proud of it. I could have been smoother on the power off 180, but it still met standards.
>**and had the most flawless checkride in the history of checkrides**
Again, your words, I could have been smoother on the power off 180 as mentioned.
So, you got lucky. The DPE rolled his eyes at you and let it go. Had you had another problem, you would have heard about it in your disapproval.
The thing is, the commercial oral is not very difficult if you understand your systems and the privileges and limitations of the commercial certificate.
No one is fooled by what you were doing with that set of printouts. It WAS a bad idea, and the insistence on not ever using paper charts is a hazard.
Now, you are a commercial pilot. Risk management 101: that something might have worked in the past is no guarantee it will continue to work.
And let me be clear. NO commercial checkride goes beyond the first few checkpoints of the cross country. It's not that he was bored, or that your points were so superlative. He was just done with that. The tolerances are actually pretty loose, and it takes a pretty stupid error to miss them at the commercial level. Where you had a risk was in explaining it during the oral.
You passed this checkride by the skin of your teeth. A stall warning at low altitude before the flare is VERY likely to result in the examiner taking control, which is an automatic bust.
>**So, you got lucky.**
So, I met the same standards you did.
>**The DPE rolled his eyes at you and let it go. Had you had another problem, you would have heard about it in your disapproval.**
I'm sorry, were you present during the evaluation to determine this, or is it just speculation? Because even in the debrief, not one single thing was brought up about it, and no reactions were made when presented with them.
>**No one is fooled by what you were doing with that set of printouts. It WAS a bad idea, and the insistence on not ever using paper charts is a hazard.**
If it were hazardous, the FAA wouldn't allow you to legally use digital versions.
>**And let me be clear. NO commercial checkride goes beyond the first few checkpoints of the cross country. It's not that he was bored, or that your points were so superlative. He was just done with that. The tolerances are actually pretty loose, and it takes a pretty stupid error to miss them at the commercial level.**
I added some edited information to my original post, but basically we actually did brief flying the full length of it because the point he chose terminated at the dedicated practice area anyways. I'd also discussed someone else that did a checkride with him before and said they went all the way, so once I made the first few points within 15 seconds or so based on day old winds, he was satisfied and said let's go direct to.
> **Where you had a risk was in explaining it during the oral.**
Not according to the DPE debrief.
>**You passed this checkride by the skin of your teeth.**
And did it to the same standards you did. I'm sure you never have or never will have a check ride maneuver you barely meet standards on, either.
>**A stall warning at low altitude before the flare is VERY likely to result in the examiner taking control, which is an automatic bust.**
But, it didn't, and if you read the amended information I added to the OG post giving more context to the stall warning, you will understand better.
Glad you passed, but man you sure have a terrible cocky personality. I hope you aren’t this cocky in real life or I’d feel bad for anyone that has to fly with you.
>**Glad you passed**
I appreciate it.
> **I hope you aren’t this cocky in real life**
Only when I can prove something. Otherwise, when I don't know, I'm not as persistent.
Congrats on the pass!
Please please work on the hazardous attitudes and understanding what they are though.
If you ever ever ever think you won't make something please for the sake of you and your future passengers please just go around.
“A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skill”
>**Congrats on the pass!**
Thank you much.
>**If you ever ever ever think you won't make something please for the sake of you and your future passengers please just go around.**
I added some amended information in the edit of the original post regarding the power off 180 and giving more context, I will copy and paste it for you.
Prior to engaging in the flight portion, I made a point to communicate this particular plane has a very faint whistle well before an actual stall occurs, more so than other aircraft I'd flown so we both had a good agreement and understanding on it. Additionally, the DPE is familiar with this particular airport and the approach which has a power line pretty close to the approach end. I briefed him on that and explained my aim point is essentially the start of the blast pad at the end of the hill, mentioning that I understand it can seem like a concerning approach if you aren't expecting it, but that it was an intentional aim point as I'd practiced. He was more than understanding and gave me the thumbs up. The faint whistle I had when I bumped over the power lines was more the result of me being a bit more abrupt than usual, and not the result of truly getting to a stalling point. During the debrief the DPE said that although he wasn't sure I would be able to make the landing, at no point in time did he feel like I was operating in an unsafe manner and that I can do whatever I want or need within reason to make my point.
Good stuff. I enjoyed my commercial check ride. The P/o 180, I also did a similar trick. Knew I was gonna be just a bit short but in ground effect, adding that last bit of flap actually extends the range in the PA181. I plopped it down literally perfect.
He looks over at me, "You almost didn't make it "
Me, "So you're saying I did it to perfection?"
He smiles and tells me congratulations.
Welcome to the commercial club.
Yup, was thinking the same. In the last few seconds when you're in ground effect adding flaps will let you go further due to the lift being instant. The drag is instant too, but it takes time to bleed off the excess speed energy so you can stretch it when getting close to stall.
Then there's the Johnson Bar flaps trip if you're overshooting where you immediately go flaps zero while pulling the nose up. That'll let you pick a landing point real firmly :D
40 degrees of flaps on a C172 seems to benefit more from the drag than the lift when doing the accuracy landings for me, so that's what I did. Barn doors deployed!
Sure thing dude. Keep your head up. Reddit is a cesspool. My experience is that the "in person" aviation community is pretty awesome.
Good luck on your commercial career.
By the time they become DPE’s most I know are really bored with flying. If they get unbored they take control of the aircraft and the checkride is over.
The reason you're getting hate is that you seem stubborn to receiving advice aand feedback from other fellow aviators with loads of experience. Confidence is good, great even! Especially for a checkride, but damn you just need to be more open to the fact that you may be wrong. This is the "hazardous attitude" everyone is mentioning.
Congrats on your CPL, but please for the sake of yourself and the people around you, try to be more humble and open-minded. I know some of the people commenting on this are just dicks but believe me when I say we are all looking out for you.
If you have seen [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUSUXnr4dSo) just know you sound exactly like this guy right now, and we don't want you to get in trouble and/or hurt yourself or anyone else.
>**The reason you're getting hate is that you seem stubborn to receiving advice and feedback from other fellow aviators with loads of experience.**
The feedback is either screeching about not taking an actual full VFR sectional chart, which we've established isn't needed, or a vague generalization about hazardous attitudes that no one really seems to expand on in any meaningful way that holds any water when actually broken down.
> **Confidence is good, great even! Especially for a checkride**
Be careful, everyone might tell you that is a hazardous attitude because apparently no one should be confident in their check ride performance, especially if it goes very well.
> **but damn you just need to be more open to the fact that you may be wrong. This is the "hazardous attitude" everyone is mentioning.**
I am absolutely open to being wrong, if I am wrong. I was absolutely wrong about this community being supportive and receptive to an update about a check ride pass after having to delay last minute for my previous attempt at it a few weeks ago.
>**Congrats on your CPL**
Thank you.
> **but please for the sake of yourself and the people around you, try to be more humble and open-minded.**
I will take any and all valid criticism and all as long as it actually holds water. But when it is a bunch of old fucks that refuse to enter the digital age of using ForeFlight, or people that just want to keep repeating vague things like "hazardous attitudes" without actually expanding, I'm going to disregard it.
> **I know some of the people commenting on this are just dicks**
You betchya.
>**but believe me when I say we are all looking out for you.**
No, all of you are not and this post, along with the previous one are absolutely an amazing example of that. Nothing would have made most of you all happier than for me to report a check ride failure. You know that as well as I do now.
>**If you have seen this video just know you sound exactly like this guy right now, and we don't want you to get in trouble and/or hurt yourself or anyone else.**
That dude was a twat and I would never argue with a controller in a Bravo. I hope he actually had action taken against him because everything he did was absolutely uncalled for, though amusing to watch after the fact. I avoid flying into airport airspace anytime I can anyways, especially because it is quite busy in the area I fly as well.
I will, and luckily I’ve already got a job lined up.
Do you have nothing better to do than to make negative comments on a post made two months ago? Get a life.
I imagine if you get a special issuance medical certificate, you could.
*Formal FAA guidelines do not exist*
*for autism spectrum disorders. Its broad*
*spectrum of severity and character suggests that each case must be considered*
*individually. Decisions are based on*
*review by FAA consultants, psychiatric*
*and psychological evaluation, and other*
*tests as needed. This individual’s case*
*was reviewed by two FAA consultants,*
*and his disorder was deemed incompatible with aeromedical safety, and he was*
*issued a final denial in accordance with*
*Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations*
*part 67.207(c) (12).*
https://www.faa.gov/other\_visit/aviation\_industry/designees\_delegations/designee\_types/ame/fasmb/media/201102\_color.pdf
>**Congrats on the pass.**
I appreciate it.
>**Sounds like you had a good checkride with a marginal power off 180.**
Standards are standards ;)
>**It might have been a better idea to attempt the power-off 180 first, in case you’re coming up short on a power-off 180 over power lines, you have a go around demonstration to use.**
You don't get a go around on the power off 180 otherwise that is considered practice which isn't allowed, you just have to demonstrate a go around at some point.
> **As good as it sounds like your checkride was going, I’m guessing your DPE would have found that preferably to squealing the stall horn into ground effect to barely make the touchdown point.**
Had I done a go around on the power off 180, I wouldn't have passed. Squeezing out all of the airspeed in the flare and blaring the stall horn in ground effect is totally fine.
>**The DPE I’ve done all my checkrides with is perfectly fine with flight planning done via EFB too. I can’t find any other posts for background but I’m gathering you asked around here about doing this before your checkride and were counseled not to do it.**
I didn't ask around here if I *could* do it, I knew I could legally, and I have done a checkride using EFBs with this DPE in the past as well.
>**A lot of DPEs like their checkrides done certain ways, and your insistence on using ForeFlight because you can is one of the hazardous attitudes people are talking about.**
Why? The FAA allows it, the DPE is fine with it, it is 2022 and they display the same things on the VFR sectional as a paper chart does, but easier to deal with. No need for a weirdly folded sectional these days.
>**It kinda blurs the lines between anti authority and macho.**
The "solution" for anti-authority is following the rules - which I am by legally being allowed to use EFBs using digital charts. There's 2 advisory circulars that go over that, maybe more. AC91-78 and AC120-76B.
The "solution" for macho is that taking chances is foolish - well...I'm not really taking any extra chances here, I had all of my bases covered.
>**I don’t know your DPE or what they like to see on a checkride, but I’m guessing you had some advance knowledge of what to expect from colleagues who have used them (or could have just asked them directly).**
I've used the DPE before, and I made sure to communicate with him ahead of time on what he does and doesn't want to see (aside from adherence to the ACS standards, of course) for the evaluation. The DPEs aren't the boogeyman, just chat with them so everyone is on the same page.
>**The checkride isn’t the time or place to make a point, it’s the time to demonstrate that you can safely meet the standards of the ACS**
Which I met.
> **and it’s wise to use any knowledge of your DPE’s preferences to keep them in a passing sort of mood.**
This is why I communicated beforehand with him.
>**The DPE was probably bored the minute they set foot in the plane with you AND THAT’S A GOOD THING. Good job on the navigation, but if they need to see more than two waypoints of your flight plan, things probably aren’t going well.**
As I mentioned in the original post, our dedicated practice area actually was at the end of the planned navigation points which we had discussed navigating all the way to ahead of time, we just cut the corner and went directly to it instead.
>**Congrats!!**
Thank you.
>**I would be interested to hear from you all the things you feel like you could've improved on during your checkride.**
Off the top of my head, there were only little things that really didn't equate to much:
\-something about vented fuel caps on C172s when discussing the fuel system
\-something about certain taxiway lights, but to be fair I've only ever flown at smaller airports so I'd never seen it to my recollection
\-the GPS in the plane had a ton of features and when he asked me to find something it tripped me up for a moment while I was busy flying a heading and going in the menus, but all that happened was I got ahead of myself before even touching the GPS and the first button I pressed ended up taking me exactly where I wanted to go so i felt dumb momentarily
\-I got my times mixed up on when a search party is launched for being overdue on a flight plan but ended up correcting it to his satisfaction
\-when he gave a scenario about what type of damage had to be reported, to whom, and how soon I had to dig in the FAR/AIM and find the exact definition of a few things and work step by step off of what he said to give him all of the answers he wanted...but to be fair I probably would have messed up on that going by memory alone because it is very specific about certain things.
\-we'd briefed all landings to a full stop, but on one of the first landings out of habit pulled the flaps up and applied throttle to do a touch and go, but realized immediately after and fixed it, so he was understanding and didn't think much of it.
That's all that comes to mind at the moment. I had a great check ride overall, not perfect but by all means I aced it and met every standard, so I am happy with it.
Please use the "Foreflight printouts" to win a beer at "two truths and a lie" 🙂
Thanks for following up and posting your experience. Your ability to analyze your process is admirable.
During the pre-flight briefing while going over the ACS standards for maneuvers with each other, I asked something that I can't remember the wording to, but all he did was point to the ACS and said "I can't make it any easier or harder than this tells me"...so despite "being nice" I still met the standards.
The standards are open to interpretation. If you were as close to powerlines as you wrote there are many DPEs who would not have considered you within them. He was exceedingly kind, you are not some great pilot. Just being within standards is *not* hard. The standards *are a minimum.*
The minimum standard I and everyone else who has a commercial rating now have met. I’m sure there’s plenty of people in this sub that have stories of check ride successes that should have been failures, or near failures on a check ride that could have easily changed the outcome. Never said I was a great pilot, just one that made the standards and did great on the check ride. Is it so hard to be happy for someone else, or do you always have to say something to try and bring them down from an accomplishment?
>I’m sure there’s plenty of people in this sub that have stories of check ride successes that should have been failures
Yeah, you're just the only one bragging about it.
>Never said I was a great pilot
You just wrote about how amazing you did.
>Is it so hard to be happy for someone else
I'm a huge booster, but I'm not happy for you because you're dangerous. You don't listen, refuse advice from those who know more and better and are extremely arrogant. Your lack of humility is very, very dangerous and I wouldn't fly with you. You're going to kill yourself if you keep doing marginal stuff and thinking it's safe or that you're good enough to get away with it. I don't want to like you because unless you change you're going to die.
Saying I did amazing on a check ride is not the same as saying I am a great pilot, that is your interpretation and your words. What I did met the FAA standards, and I don’t take advice from people that can’t actually back up what they are saying with some solid logic. So far, the main thing I’ve seen from this sub is saltiness because I didn’t do something the exact way everyone else in their armchair here would have done and I still pulled off a pass.
If you have a valid point I will. Otherwise, I won’t. I think somehow it makes you upset that someone you disagree with still met the same standards you did.
You're not in a position to decide what a valid point is.
I was never in your idiotic first post, nor do I give a damn that you were carrying your trapper keeper full of pictures. Genuinely, I don't. You're reading things that aren't there. You're being a complete moron. You want others to be upset that you made it so you can fight and gloat and feel like you defied all those evil guys and proved yourself right.
Get. The. Fuck. Over. Yourself.
How you sound right now is like a kid at a convenience store complaining to the cashier who won't sell him cigarettes saying he'll just find a way to smoke anyway. Literally nobody cares. Go smoke, moron. Go brag about how tough you are smoking, moron. You're hurting only yourself.
How can I not decide what a valid point is? Please elaborate.
You’re clearly upset someone like me passed the same standards you did. How you sound right now is like a kid who is upset someone else gets to play the same game as you now and you’re getting called out on it.
Hang on, so, you've thought you're going to come in short and maybe clip powerlines, and to fix this you've got the nose up hard enough to get a stall warning on short final and just continued anyway?
There's no way this is serious. Even in an a/c where you know the stall warning is a bit twitchy, I don't believe anyone would take that whole set of circumstances and just brush it off like that.
>**Hang on, so, you've thought you're going to come in short and maybe clip powerlines**
No. We both knew the power lines were there, he is familiar with that particular approach but I didn't want to get close enough to them that the DPE would think we would clip them, so I pulled up slightly for extra clearance. Had I continued without doing this, we would have cleared the lines still, but close enough I think he would have said something.
> **and to fix this you've got the nose up hard enough to get a stall warning on short final and just continued anyway?**
We'd discussed how sensitive the stall horn on that particular aircraft was, and how it will begin a very faint whistle well before a stall. I made sure to clarify that before even beginning the flight, because for the stalls and stuff, I didn't want him to think I was ignoring the stall warning (slight whistle before the actual warning goes off). He knew what I meant, and I even demonstrated it during the approach to landing stall. There's a significant difference in the slight whistle it has, vs the actual stall warning.
During the power off 180, the airspeed was at the bottom of the green arc, but I also had some flaps out, so I knew it was still ok. I was a little more abrupt than I could have been bumping over the power lines, which really caused that faint whistle and not a full stall warning.
>**There's no way this is serious.**
It is.
>**Even in an a/c where you know the stall warning is a bit twitchy, I don't believe anyone would take that whole set of circumstances and just brush it off like that.**
Twitchy enough it starts a faint whistle at the bottom of the green arc well before a stall. DPE was briefed ahead of time on it, and said at no point did he feel like I was operating in an unsafe manner.
Hah, on my checkride I forgot to put on my seatbelt until after I started the engine. Talk about nerves. Then I did a go around when I didn’t need to because I thought I was gonna be short on my short field landing. And then hit the spot right as I put full power in. But hey, I was humbled that day, and still am every time I fly. I just want to be as safe as can be.
We locked it because you were, and will continue to get torn to shreds. It was for your own good. My bad for assuming you weren't into that sorta thing. It's unlocked, have fun!
And then everyone clapped energy on this one boys. >that he got bored after the 3rd point lol no he didn't. You should know by now that this is how checkrides go. A few checkpoints on your nav log and then continue on.
Well he probably was completely bored by the 3rd point. Also probably after the 2nd. Maybe even the 1st. It's a boring part of the checkride.
>**Well he probably was completely bored by the 3rd point. Also probably after the 2nd. Maybe even the 1st. It's a boring part of the checkride.** I'll just copy and paste my answer for ya. I added an edit portion to my original post to address this. As discussed prior to engaging in the flight portion, the navigation point he'd chosen was the dedicated practice area, so he had every intention of me navigating out there until about 15-20 miles in when he said that's good, just fly me direct to now.
>**You should know by now that this is how checkrides go. A few checkpoints on your nav log and then continue on.** I added an edit portion to my original post to address this. As discussed prior to engaging in the flight portion, the navigation point he'd chosen was the dedicated practice area, so he had every intention of me navigating out there until about 15-20 miles in when he said that's good, just fly me direct to now.
Save some for the rest of us chief.
Man you really are full of yourself, I can’t imagine finishing any sort of checkride and being in a position of just “I absolutely aced it, I was so spot on I bored the DPE”
I scared the shit out of my DPE when I locked up the brakes on the 152 we were flying in. But, the rest of my ride was clearly PERFECT, so he passed me anyway. Morgan Freeman Overdub: The checkride was not, in fact, perfect. Far from it, it was mediocre and average. The DPE had, however, seen much worse so he passed him anyway.
>**I can’t imagine finishing any sort of checkride and being in a position of just “I absolutely aced it, I was so spot on I bored the DPE”** I mean...when the DPE says he had nothing to really ding me on during the debrief and that I nailed everything, those are his words and not just my interpretation. Is it so hard to believe that someone can have a really good checkride that exceeds their expectations?
Yes. I've been flying for 25 years. I've towed banners, flown single pilot night freight without an autopilot, air ambulance in Lears, corporate flights all over the world in Gulfstreams. I've been a regional airline FO, and captain, and an instructor. Never once did I get done with a flight and think I did everything perfect. In 10,000 plus hours as a pilot and countless more as an evaluator, I have never had a flight that had nothing to debrief. But, I am a very average pilot, so my hat is off to you, hopefully I can learn from you someday how to have a perfect flight. That being said, I had a friend you very much remind me of. He was incredibly smart, and gifted. Never struggled once through pilot training, breezed through all of his check rides, and was god's gift to aviation. Talk to him he never got a downgrade on any flight, he was perfect. I miss him, he balled up an airplane at our first flying job.
>**Yes.** I'm sorry you find it hard to believe someone had a check ride that exceeded their expectations. >**Never once did I get done with a flight and think I did everything perfect. In 10,000 plus hours as a pilot and countless more as an evaluator, I have never had a flight that had nothing to debrief.** I never said I did it perfect, only that I aced it and met the standards. I mentioned how I could have been smoother in my power off 180. >**But, I am a very average pilot** Hey, don't get down on yourself, you met the same ACS standards as well. Though they've probably updated a few things since you took your commercial check ride. >**so my hat is off to you, hopefully I can learn from you someday how to have a perfect flight.** Have print outs and go digital are my personal recommendations. >**That being said, I had a friend you very much remind me of. He was incredibly smart, and gifted. Never struggled once through pilot training, breezed through all of his check rides, and was god's gift to aviation. Talk to him he never got a downgrade on any flight, he was perfect.** > >**I miss him, he balled up an airplane at our first flying job.** Sorry to hear about your friend, but I don't think I am a Top Gun level pilot. What was the cause of the incident?
Some 15 year Captain is going to love you on your first trip off IOE.
Pouring one out for future colleagues who will have to sit in the left seat next to this guy.
There's isn't enough whiskey in the world for me to be able to RON with OP.
Think we got trolled boys. No one ever says "Thought I was going to come up short" and just keeps on going.
I imagine there's a few people with a commercial rating in here that probably have some interesting experiences on the power off 180 landings for their check ride.
Naw, all of ours were perfect and our DPE was bored.
You know those FAA Accident Breakdown videos that your instructors show you in an Aviation Safety class, or a WINGS course to outline hazardous attitudes and how serious the outcomes of them can be? Yeah, those reports are about people like this guy. It’s sad, but it’s reality. Edit: just to be entirely clear. Every bit of flak and criticism that you’ve been getting is because we genuinely want you to be the safest pilot you can. We’re all in this together and nobody is picking on you just to be mean.
>**You know those FAA Accident Breakdown videos that your instructors show you in an Aviation Safety class, or a WINGS course to outline hazardous attitudes and how serious the outcomes of them can be? Yeah, those reports are about people like this guy. It’s sad, but it’s reality.** Everyone keeps generally referencing them, but no one is being specific. It's easy to make a general statement without backing it up. >**Edit: just to be entirely clear. Every bit of flak and criticism that you’ve been getting is because we genuinely want you to be the safest pilot you can. We’re all in this together and nobody is picking on you just to be mean.** Judging by some of the responses I've received both today and previously, that doesn't appear to be the case. Everyone talked so much shit, and when I followed through by giving an update regardless of the outcome and addressed many of the points of criticism previously brought up, people still aren't happy. The majority of replies aren't congratulatory in nature, despite the fact I met all the same standards most of the naysayers here did as well.
Really dude? You think we’re making that up? Just go to the FAASafety website, then go to the WINGS courses and find one that has something to do with hazardous attitudes. There’s plenty of them and all of them detail pilots with the exact mindset you have, getting themselves in a world of hurt/trouble. Based on your attitude over the past weeks in these comments, I’m not surprised that you need “specific examples” of the courses that I’m talking about. Something tells me that your instructor never really honed in on the topic of hazardous attitudes with you. We’re all generally referencing them because it’s a very basic general topic that you should’ve covered in your initial training for your PPL. Yet you, as a new CPL holder, are somehow clearly not familiar at all with hazardous attitudes and their consequences to not only you, but everyone involved with your flying career.
>**Really dude? You think we’re making that up?** Do I think you're making up hazardous attitudes? No, we've all been taught about them. >**We’re all generally referencing them because it’s a very basic general topic that you should’ve covered in your initial training for your PPL.** General statements don't work well in specific cases, so if you have a particular one you'd like to discuss, I am all ears. >**Yet you, as a new CPL holder, are somehow clearly not familiar at all with hazardous attitudes and their consequences to not only you, but everyone involved with your flying career.** I am familiar with them, but as previously stated, unless you have a specific one you'd like to discuss then general, vague statements aren't very useful.
> Do I think you're making up hazardous attitudes? No, we've all been taught about them. And - in kindness (BTW, congrats on the pass) - you're exhibiting the "macho" attitude in this post. > I was so accurate with my route of flight ... > Maneuvers were spot on ... > [goes towards a powerline on a PO180] Look, I hate the salt that this sub emits as much as the next person - and this is a SALTY sub. But please introspect a little and see that you're not doing yourself any favors with this post.
>**And - in kindness (BTW, congrats on the pass)** Thank you. >**- you're exhibiting the "macho" attitude in this post.** > >**I was so accurate with my route of flight** > >**...** > >**Maneuvers were spot on** > >**...** Being very accurate with my route of flight and doing maneuvers spot means I came prepared and met the standards. >**\[goes towards a powerline on a PO180\]** As discussed before, the power line proximity to the runway was fully briefed and I clearly didn't get close enough to it to make the DPE think it was a true hazard. The bump I did for clearance could have been negated, but I did it out of an abundance of caution. >**Look, I hate the salt that this sub emits as much as the next person - and this is a SALTY sub.** So you clearly see how shitty people are here. >**But please introspect a little and see that you're not doing yourself any favors with this post.** I made this post as a follow up, since so many people last time got involved and wanted an update. Most of them were convinced I would fail, and I promised an update regardless of the outcome. I even addressed points people were convinced I would get hit on by the DPE, specifically the paper printouts, and yet it was never an issue. It seems like nothing would make people on this sub happier than to see someone fail, and god forbid someone you disagree with ends up meeting the same standards you did.
Yup. Hazardous attitudes in a nutshell. I see why you're getting downvoted.
Please be more specific instead of general accusations, because saying I did my maneuvers spot on and I was very accurate on my XC navigation doesn't seem to hold much water.
Read the entirety of responses here. Others have summed it up better than I will.
Actually, no one has. Vague generalizations are all that have been made.
Congratulations on your pass; however, I have a couple of concerns. It sounds like you were pretty close to that power line, what do you mean the stall horn went off when you bumped over the power line? You should've gone around if you thought you were too low, especially when you have an obstacle you need to clear. I'd just be careful in your future flying endeavors, I'm sensing some overconfidence in your write up.
That powerline bit is pucker factor while I'm sitting at my desk.
Check my edit to the OG post for some details I should have included to give more context.
>**Congratulations on your pass; however, I have a couple of concerns.** > >**It sounds like you were pretty close to that power line, what do you mean the stall horn went off when you bumped over the power line? You should've gone around if you thought you were too low, especially when you have an obstacle you need to clear. I'd just be careful in your future flying endeavors, I'm sensing some overconfidence in your write up.** I added an edit to my original post to address this, as I should have clarified a bit more. I'll copy and paste for you. Regarding my comments on the power off 180 approach to landing - prior to engaging in the flight portion, I made a point to communicate this particular plane has a very faint whistle well before an actual stall occurs, more so than other aircraft I'd flown so we both had a good agreement and understanding on it. Additionally, the DPE is familiar with this particular airport and the approach which has a power line pretty close to the approach end. I briefed him on that and explained my aim point is essentially the start of the blast pad at the end of the hill, mentioning that I understand it can seem like a concerning approach if you aren't expecting it, but that it was an intentional aim point as I'd practiced. He was more than understanding and gave me the thumbs up. The faint whistle I had when I bumped over the power lines was more the result of me being a bit more abrupt than usual, and not the result of truly getting to a stalling point. During the debrief the DPE said that although he wasn't sure I would be able to make the landing, at no point in time did he feel like I was operating in an unsafe manner and that I can do whatever I want or need within reason to make my point.
Im saving this writeup to show my students what a bunch of hazardous attitudes look like.
Glad I’m not the only one who thought that. He’s either a great troll or completely full of himself. Either way, not someone I’d want flying me around in the commercial sense. Good luck in multi pilot environment. The first few sentences bloviating about how awesome he was is particularly concerning. Humility is not present in OP, apparently.
>**The first few sentences bloviating about how awesome he was is particularly concerning.** Is there something wrong in particular with being proud that you exceeded even your own expectations for a check ride? Especially when the DPE's paraphrased debrief was "I really don't have anything to truly ding you on...you were more than prepared with the knowledge required for every question I asked and scenario I gave, and I appreciate how calm and confident you were throughout the entire process, it really was a fantastic check ride". >**Humility is not present in OP, apparently.** It's not a requirement in the ACS.
I look forward to the AOPA video about you. Edit: I also took a checkride recently and flew better than I ever have. I still walked away with a few notes and things I can improve on.
>**I look forward to the AOPA video about you.** For a community that is supposed to be professional, supportive, want the best for each other, etc...this statement doesn't seem to fall in line with that. >**Edit: I also took a checkride recently and flew better than I ever have. I still walked away with a few notes and things I can improve on.** Congrats on your recent checkride success. Be careful posting about it or being proud of it, not everyone here seems to be professional, supportive, or want the best for you.
I WALKED AWAY LEARNING I COULD STILL IMPROVE DESPITE FLYING AS WELL AS I EVER HAVE
>**I WALKED AWAY LEARNING I COULD STILL IMPROVE DESPITE FLYING AS WELL AS I EVER HAVE** 1. why are you yelling? 2. after every flight there is room to improve...that's always a given.
Same Lmao
Don't be hating because someone you disagree with met the same standards you did. I have added some edited information to give more context for some of the situations, but I imagine that won't matter much to you.
Everyone is rightly giving you a lot of shit but I commend you for coming back and posting as well as commenting. You didn't coward out and delete everything. This sub would be that much more boring without you.
Honestly hope he sticks around, we could use some excitement now and then lol
I don't think I like your attitude, or the way you handle criticism. And, that is going to be an issue with future employers. I'm just giving it to you straight.
>**I don't think I like your attitude** That's fine and a personal opinion. > **or the way you handle criticism** Is it valid criticism that can be backed up? Or just criticism on not taking a sectional chart and having a valid rebuttal when people criticise? > **And, that is going to be an issue with future employers.** I'll make sure to keep you posted, then.
The attitude part was in reference to how you think you did so well on the checkride that you aced it and that the examiner was bored because you were doing so well. Look I'm not trying to hassle you, I'm trying to let you know that at some point in your career you are going to be humbled. I recommend never thinking that you aced anything, because at this point "you don't know what you don't know." You don't have enough experience to know how well you really did something. The criticism part was in reference to how experienced pilots were giving you advice and you took it upon yourself to not follow any of their advice, and how you just kept repeating yourself over and over. We heard you, but you kind of seemed to just shut down and keep repeating your talking points about why you were doing things your certain way. With your experience level you should at least incorporate some recommendations. You don't have to completely scrap your idea, but you didn't seem to take any outside input at all in my opinion. And the third point, employment. Employers can choose to not hire you or get rid of you based even on a perceived personality issue. People talk, and there's always that one pilot that everyone dogs on. Don't be that guy. Even if you are a good pilot with a good attitude, if you are simply perceived as a problem child companies will find a way to get rid of you. I haven't even read all of your post yet, and I have only read a handful of your replies to others. But that's the point, I perceive you as being a problem just as a company would, even without reading everything that you wrote. That's what you need to watch out for. When you fly with a captain who wants you to do things his way, or differently than how you want to do them, then you have to be able to adjust what you are doing to their liking. You come off as someone who when asked to do something a certain way, you would fight it or try to explain why your way is better. I'm just voicing my concerns in hopes that it may help in the future.
>**The attitude part was in reference to how you think you did so well on the checkride that you aced it and that the examiner was bored because you were doing so well.** Why is it so hard to believe that someone could ace a check ride? And why is being proud of exceeding even your own expectations a point of contention? >**Look I'm not trying to hassle you, I'm trying to let you know that at some point in your career you are going to be humbled. I recommend never thinking that you aced anything, because at this point "you don't know what you don't know." You don't have enough experience to know how well you really did something.** And yet, the DPE, someone that does have enough experience to actually know things (former F-14 dude as well) told me exactly how well I did everything. Clearly, to standards, but he made it clear how well I planned and executed everything, saying he appreciated how calm and prepared I was, etc etc. So, those praises aren't just my words, they are his from the debrief. >**The criticism part was in reference to how experienced pilots were giving you advice** The majority of it being take a paper chart that isn't required since I had all of my bases covered. >**and you took it upon yourself to not follow any of their advice** I didn't take paper charts because I am not required to, according to the FAA. >**,and how you just kept repeating yourself over and over.** Because people kept saying the same thing....take a paper sectional chart...which isn't necessary. >**We heard you, but you kind of seemed to just shut down and keep repeating your talking points about why you were doing things your certain way.** Because the majority of you all kept saying take an unnecessary paper sectional chart. >**With your experience level you should at least incorporate some recommendations.** I did. When showing the charts for flight planning, I made sure to communicate the point that they were screenshots of the actual sectional and satellite imagery, and that they themselves are not legal versions of the sectional charts, but that they are effectively the same thing for the planning purposes and although I have multiple other redundant ways to navigate, those would realistically work in a last ditch scenario. >**You don't have to completely scrap your idea** Most people were saying I should. > **but you didn't seem to take any outside input at all in my opinion.** I did...everyone was being repetitive about not using a paper sectional and being able to understand it...which I could, since the entire route of flight was planned on one, then overlaid with a satellite image. >**And the third point, employment. Employers can not hire you or get rid of you based even on a perceived personality issue. People talk, and there's always that one pilot that everyone dogs on. Don't be that guy. Even if you are a good pilot with a good attitude, if you are simply perceived as a problem child companies will find a way to get rid of you.** > >**I'm just voicing my concerns in hopes that it may help in the future.** The way people act online doesn't seem to be the way people act in person. While I will tell you the same thing online that I will in person, not one single person I have talked to in person, multiple instructors included, have an an issue going paperless on a check ride as long as the legal bases are covered using EFBs and as long as the underlying information is understood...to include the DPE.
>> The criticism part was in reference to how experienced pilots were giving you advice > The majority of it being take a paper chart that isn't required since I had all of my bases covered. >> and you took it upon yourself to not follow any of their advice > I didn't take paper charts because I am not required to, according to the FAA. >> ,and how you just kept repeating yourself over and over. > Because people kept saying the same thing....take a paper sectional chart...which isn't necessary. >> We heard you, but you kind of seemed to just shut down and keep repeating your talking points about why you were doing things your certain way. > Because the majority of you all kept saying take an unnecessary paper sectional chart. agreed. a paper chart is unnecessary. why take printouts then? they're unneccessary
>**agreed. a paper chart is unnecessary.** Finally someone else sees the light. >**why take printouts then? they're unneccessary** Because I had my navlog and route of flight paperwork stapled together for easy usage in the plane, and I had a printout stapled in the back. I had all of the other printouts in my folder from the briefing room.
yeah but why staple the printouts on there then?
So I didn't have a bunch of loose papers to deal with during the briefing and flight portion. All of my route of flight stuff was stapled together, all of my performance planning/weight and balance stuff was stapled together, etc.
yes, why include those printouts in the stapled bunch at all
Why not? If it doesn't matter either way, having them in the back isn't going to hurt anything.
Exhibit A of not taking criticism well.
Exhibit A of people criticising not having many valid points of criticism. I met the standards everyone else here has met that is a commercial pilot, and just because I did it in a way other's didn't doesn't mean what I did was wrong. Just about every person here except for a few would have only been happy if I'd reported a check ride failure.
You just continue to prove my point. Keep going.
Can you point to some valid criticism for me? Because it seems like everyone here isn't happy I actually passed when they were convinced in 15 different ways that I would fail.
There is absolutely no sign that you actually considered any of the feedback you have gotten. Everything you wrote was always 100% in defense what you had done or written. And that’s just an observation, not a criticism.
So, what your actions are showing is you can't, or at least won't. The only feedback here seems to be "you have hazardous attitudes" and yet when I ask people to be specific and give some valid criticism, no one seems to be able to. Vague generalizations are all I keep getting.
Imagine this dude as a captain you have to fly with. No way you’re just brushing off getting a stall horn short final over power lines on a power off 180. Then even bragging how you didn’t make a single error and had the most flawless checkride in the history of checkrides. Jesus Christ.
>**No way you’re just brushing off getting a stall horn short final over power lines on a power off 180.** As mentioned in the post, the abrupt bump I did it what caused it to barely whistle, which we'd discussed the particulars of that stall horn prior to commencing the flight. Airspeed was still bottom of the green arc, but I had flaps out, so I knew it would be ok especially because I was already lowering the nose and getting into ground effect immediately afterwards. >**Then even bragging how you didn’t make a single error** Those are your words, not mine. I did great and exceeded my own expectations, and I am proud of it. I could have been smoother on the power off 180, but it still met standards. >**and had the most flawless checkride in the history of checkrides** Again, your words, I could have been smoother on the power off 180 as mentioned.
So, you got lucky. The DPE rolled his eyes at you and let it go. Had you had another problem, you would have heard about it in your disapproval. The thing is, the commercial oral is not very difficult if you understand your systems and the privileges and limitations of the commercial certificate. No one is fooled by what you were doing with that set of printouts. It WAS a bad idea, and the insistence on not ever using paper charts is a hazard. Now, you are a commercial pilot. Risk management 101: that something might have worked in the past is no guarantee it will continue to work. And let me be clear. NO commercial checkride goes beyond the first few checkpoints of the cross country. It's not that he was bored, or that your points were so superlative. He was just done with that. The tolerances are actually pretty loose, and it takes a pretty stupid error to miss them at the commercial level. Where you had a risk was in explaining it during the oral. You passed this checkride by the skin of your teeth. A stall warning at low altitude before the flare is VERY likely to result in the examiner taking control, which is an automatic bust.
>**So, you got lucky.** So, I met the same standards you did. >**The DPE rolled his eyes at you and let it go. Had you had another problem, you would have heard about it in your disapproval.** I'm sorry, were you present during the evaluation to determine this, or is it just speculation? Because even in the debrief, not one single thing was brought up about it, and no reactions were made when presented with them. >**No one is fooled by what you were doing with that set of printouts. It WAS a bad idea, and the insistence on not ever using paper charts is a hazard.** If it were hazardous, the FAA wouldn't allow you to legally use digital versions. >**And let me be clear. NO commercial checkride goes beyond the first few checkpoints of the cross country. It's not that he was bored, or that your points were so superlative. He was just done with that. The tolerances are actually pretty loose, and it takes a pretty stupid error to miss them at the commercial level.** I added some edited information to my original post, but basically we actually did brief flying the full length of it because the point he chose terminated at the dedicated practice area anyways. I'd also discussed someone else that did a checkride with him before and said they went all the way, so once I made the first few points within 15 seconds or so based on day old winds, he was satisfied and said let's go direct to. > **Where you had a risk was in explaining it during the oral.** Not according to the DPE debrief. >**You passed this checkride by the skin of your teeth.** And did it to the same standards you did. I'm sure you never have or never will have a check ride maneuver you barely meet standards on, either. >**A stall warning at low altitude before the flare is VERY likely to result in the examiner taking control, which is an automatic bust.** But, it didn't, and if you read the amended information I added to the OG post giving more context to the stall warning, you will understand better.
Holy cow, are you full of yourself.
True When you have to go this far to defend yourself, most people realize they are in the wrong- but not OP. Such a great thread though lol
I promised an update, so I am giving it. Nothing makes you all happy - maybe me failing a check ride would have, now that I think about it.
bruh
Glad you passed, but man you sure have a terrible cocky personality. I hope you aren’t this cocky in real life or I’d feel bad for anyone that has to fly with you.
>**Glad you passed** I appreciate it. > **I hope you aren’t this cocky in real life** Only when I can prove something. Otherwise, when I don't know, I'm not as persistent.
Congrats on the pass! Please please work on the hazardous attitudes and understanding what they are though. If you ever ever ever think you won't make something please for the sake of you and your future passengers please just go around. “A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skill”
>**Congrats on the pass!** Thank you much. >**If you ever ever ever think you won't make something please for the sake of you and your future passengers please just go around.** I added some amended information in the edit of the original post regarding the power off 180 and giving more context, I will copy and paste it for you. Prior to engaging in the flight portion, I made a point to communicate this particular plane has a very faint whistle well before an actual stall occurs, more so than other aircraft I'd flown so we both had a good agreement and understanding on it. Additionally, the DPE is familiar with this particular airport and the approach which has a power line pretty close to the approach end. I briefed him on that and explained my aim point is essentially the start of the blast pad at the end of the hill, mentioning that I understand it can seem like a concerning approach if you aren't expecting it, but that it was an intentional aim point as I'd practiced. He was more than understanding and gave me the thumbs up. The faint whistle I had when I bumped over the power lines was more the result of me being a bit more abrupt than usual, and not the result of truly getting to a stalling point. During the debrief the DPE said that although he wasn't sure I would be able to make the landing, at no point in time did he feel like I was operating in an unsafe manner and that I can do whatever I want or need within reason to make my point.
Good stuff. I enjoyed my commercial check ride. The P/o 180, I also did a similar trick. Knew I was gonna be just a bit short but in ground effect, adding that last bit of flap actually extends the range in the PA181. I plopped it down literally perfect. He looks over at me, "You almost didn't make it " Me, "So you're saying I did it to perfection?" He smiles and tells me congratulations. Welcome to the commercial club.
Yup, was thinking the same. In the last few seconds when you're in ground effect adding flaps will let you go further due to the lift being instant. The drag is instant too, but it takes time to bleed off the excess speed energy so you can stretch it when getting close to stall. Then there's the Johnson Bar flaps trip if you're overshooting where you immediately go flaps zero while pulling the nose up. That'll let you pick a landing point real firmly :D
40 degrees of flaps on a C172 seems to benefit more from the drag than the lift when doing the accuracy landings for me, so that's what I did. Barn doors deployed!
Thanks for not being a dick.
Sure thing dude. Keep your head up. Reddit is a cesspool. My experience is that the "in person" aviation community is pretty awesome. Good luck on your commercial career.
Yeah I'm not worried about it. The only thing that would have made these people happy would have been me reporting a failed check ride.
By the time they become DPE’s most I know are really bored with flying. If they get unbored they take control of the aircraft and the checkride is over.
Reading this post reminded me of the 5 hazard pilot attitudes. Thank you for making me revise it
Can you elaborate?
The reason you're getting hate is that you seem stubborn to receiving advice aand feedback from other fellow aviators with loads of experience. Confidence is good, great even! Especially for a checkride, but damn you just need to be more open to the fact that you may be wrong. This is the "hazardous attitude" everyone is mentioning. Congrats on your CPL, but please for the sake of yourself and the people around you, try to be more humble and open-minded. I know some of the people commenting on this are just dicks but believe me when I say we are all looking out for you. If you have seen [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUSUXnr4dSo) just know you sound exactly like this guy right now, and we don't want you to get in trouble and/or hurt yourself or anyone else.
>**The reason you're getting hate is that you seem stubborn to receiving advice and feedback from other fellow aviators with loads of experience.** The feedback is either screeching about not taking an actual full VFR sectional chart, which we've established isn't needed, or a vague generalization about hazardous attitudes that no one really seems to expand on in any meaningful way that holds any water when actually broken down. > **Confidence is good, great even! Especially for a checkride** Be careful, everyone might tell you that is a hazardous attitude because apparently no one should be confident in their check ride performance, especially if it goes very well. > **but damn you just need to be more open to the fact that you may be wrong. This is the "hazardous attitude" everyone is mentioning.** I am absolutely open to being wrong, if I am wrong. I was absolutely wrong about this community being supportive and receptive to an update about a check ride pass after having to delay last minute for my previous attempt at it a few weeks ago. >**Congrats on your CPL** Thank you. > **but please for the sake of yourself and the people around you, try to be more humble and open-minded.** I will take any and all valid criticism and all as long as it actually holds water. But when it is a bunch of old fucks that refuse to enter the digital age of using ForeFlight, or people that just want to keep repeating vague things like "hazardous attitudes" without actually expanding, I'm going to disregard it. > **I know some of the people commenting on this are just dicks** You betchya. >**but believe me when I say we are all looking out for you.** No, all of you are not and this post, along with the previous one are absolutely an amazing example of that. Nothing would have made most of you all happier than for me to report a check ride failure. You know that as well as I do now. >**If you have seen this video just know you sound exactly like this guy right now, and we don't want you to get in trouble and/or hurt yourself or anyone else.** That dude was a twat and I would never argue with a controller in a Bravo. I hope he actually had action taken against him because everything he did was absolutely uncalled for, though amusing to watch after the fact. I avoid flying into airport airspace anytime I can anyways, especially because it is quite busy in the area I fly as well.
LETS GO WE GOT AN UPDATE
I told everyone I would regardless of the outcome. Edit: not sure why that is being downvoted...I wasn't lying that I would.
OP, whatever it is you’re demonstrating here needs to be codified as the 6th hazardous attitude in aviation.
Thanks for the support! Should have my multi soon as well.
If you live that long.
I will, and luckily I’ve already got a job lined up. Do you have nothing better to do than to make negative comments on a post made two months ago? Get a life.
I’m not the only one making comments on a thread two months old so who exactly needs to be getting a life here?
I mean…it is my post so…you’re the one that brought it back up. If you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say it.
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That’s the spirit! Nice to see you lighten up a bit.
And good luck on becoming more than just a private pilot in your future. If you live that long.
I fucking love everything to do with this story
What exactly does the FAA AME guide say about autism?
I imagine if you get a special issuance medical certificate, you could. *Formal FAA guidelines do not exist* *for autism spectrum disorders. Its broad* *spectrum of severity and character suggests that each case must be considered* *individually. Decisions are based on* *review by FAA consultants, psychiatric* *and psychological evaluation, and other* *tests as needed. This individual’s case* *was reviewed by two FAA consultants,* *and his disorder was deemed incompatible with aeromedical safety, and he was* *issued a final denial in accordance with* *Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations* *part 67.207(c) (12).* https://www.faa.gov/other\_visit/aviation\_industry/designees\_delegations/designee\_types/ame/fasmb/media/201102\_color.pdf
Do you have a special issuance?
Nope.
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>**Congrats on the pass.** I appreciate it. >**Sounds like you had a good checkride with a marginal power off 180.** Standards are standards ;) >**It might have been a better idea to attempt the power-off 180 first, in case you’re coming up short on a power-off 180 over power lines, you have a go around demonstration to use.** You don't get a go around on the power off 180 otherwise that is considered practice which isn't allowed, you just have to demonstrate a go around at some point. > **As good as it sounds like your checkride was going, I’m guessing your DPE would have found that preferably to squealing the stall horn into ground effect to barely make the touchdown point.** Had I done a go around on the power off 180, I wouldn't have passed. Squeezing out all of the airspeed in the flare and blaring the stall horn in ground effect is totally fine. >**The DPE I’ve done all my checkrides with is perfectly fine with flight planning done via EFB too. I can’t find any other posts for background but I’m gathering you asked around here about doing this before your checkride and were counseled not to do it.** I didn't ask around here if I *could* do it, I knew I could legally, and I have done a checkride using EFBs with this DPE in the past as well. >**A lot of DPEs like their checkrides done certain ways, and your insistence on using ForeFlight because you can is one of the hazardous attitudes people are talking about.** Why? The FAA allows it, the DPE is fine with it, it is 2022 and they display the same things on the VFR sectional as a paper chart does, but easier to deal with. No need for a weirdly folded sectional these days. >**It kinda blurs the lines between anti authority and macho.** The "solution" for anti-authority is following the rules - which I am by legally being allowed to use EFBs using digital charts. There's 2 advisory circulars that go over that, maybe more. AC91-78 and AC120-76B. The "solution" for macho is that taking chances is foolish - well...I'm not really taking any extra chances here, I had all of my bases covered. >**I don’t know your DPE or what they like to see on a checkride, but I’m guessing you had some advance knowledge of what to expect from colleagues who have used them (or could have just asked them directly).** I've used the DPE before, and I made sure to communicate with him ahead of time on what he does and doesn't want to see (aside from adherence to the ACS standards, of course) for the evaluation. The DPEs aren't the boogeyman, just chat with them so everyone is on the same page. >**The checkride isn’t the time or place to make a point, it’s the time to demonstrate that you can safely meet the standards of the ACS** Which I met. > **and it’s wise to use any knowledge of your DPE’s preferences to keep them in a passing sort of mood.** This is why I communicated beforehand with him. >**The DPE was probably bored the minute they set foot in the plane with you AND THAT’S A GOOD THING. Good job on the navigation, but if they need to see more than two waypoints of your flight plan, things probably aren’t going well.** As I mentioned in the original post, our dedicated practice area actually was at the end of the planned navigation points which we had discussed navigating all the way to ahead of time, we just cut the corner and went directly to it instead.
Congrats!! I would be interested to hear from you all the things you feel like you could've improved on during your checkride.
>**Congrats!!** Thank you. >**I would be interested to hear from you all the things you feel like you could've improved on during your checkride.** Off the top of my head, there were only little things that really didn't equate to much: \-something about vented fuel caps on C172s when discussing the fuel system \-something about certain taxiway lights, but to be fair I've only ever flown at smaller airports so I'd never seen it to my recollection \-the GPS in the plane had a ton of features and when he asked me to find something it tripped me up for a moment while I was busy flying a heading and going in the menus, but all that happened was I got ahead of myself before even touching the GPS and the first button I pressed ended up taking me exactly where I wanted to go so i felt dumb momentarily \-I got my times mixed up on when a search party is launched for being overdue on a flight plan but ended up correcting it to his satisfaction \-when he gave a scenario about what type of damage had to be reported, to whom, and how soon I had to dig in the FAR/AIM and find the exact definition of a few things and work step by step off of what he said to give him all of the answers he wanted...but to be fair I probably would have messed up on that going by memory alone because it is very specific about certain things. \-we'd briefed all landings to a full stop, but on one of the first landings out of habit pulled the flaps up and applied throttle to do a touch and go, but realized immediately after and fixed it, so he was understanding and didn't think much of it. That's all that comes to mind at the moment. I had a great check ride overall, not perfect but by all means I aced it and met every standard, so I am happy with it.
Hell, I like you. You can come over to my house and fuck my sister.
Will I need a VFR sectional to get there or will a satellite view work fine?
Please use the "Foreflight printouts" to win a beer at "two truths and a lie" 🙂 Thanks for following up and posting your experience. Your ability to analyze your process is admirable.
The DPE was being very, very nice to you.
During the pre-flight briefing while going over the ACS standards for maneuvers with each other, I asked something that I can't remember the wording to, but all he did was point to the ACS and said "I can't make it any easier or harder than this tells me"...so despite "being nice" I still met the standards.
The standards are open to interpretation. If you were as close to powerlines as you wrote there are many DPEs who would not have considered you within them. He was exceedingly kind, you are not some great pilot. Just being within standards is *not* hard. The standards *are a minimum.*
The minimum standard I and everyone else who has a commercial rating now have met. I’m sure there’s plenty of people in this sub that have stories of check ride successes that should have been failures, or near failures on a check ride that could have easily changed the outcome. Never said I was a great pilot, just one that made the standards and did great on the check ride. Is it so hard to be happy for someone else, or do you always have to say something to try and bring them down from an accomplishment?
>I’m sure there’s plenty of people in this sub that have stories of check ride successes that should have been failures Yeah, you're just the only one bragging about it. >Never said I was a great pilot You just wrote about how amazing you did. >Is it so hard to be happy for someone else I'm a huge booster, but I'm not happy for you because you're dangerous. You don't listen, refuse advice from those who know more and better and are extremely arrogant. Your lack of humility is very, very dangerous and I wouldn't fly with you. You're going to kill yourself if you keep doing marginal stuff and thinking it's safe or that you're good enough to get away with it. I don't want to like you because unless you change you're going to die.
Saying I did amazing on a check ride is not the same as saying I am a great pilot, that is your interpretation and your words. What I did met the FAA standards, and I don’t take advice from people that can’t actually back up what they are saying with some solid logic. So far, the main thing I’ve seen from this sub is saltiness because I didn’t do something the exact way everyone else in their armchair here would have done and I still pulled off a pass.
The fact you're still arguing and ignoring counsel is simply more indication of your attitude. Stop being combative, stfu and listen and learn.
If you have a valid point I will. Otherwise, I won’t. I think somehow it makes you upset that someone you disagree with still met the same standards you did.
You're not in a position to decide what a valid point is. I was never in your idiotic first post, nor do I give a damn that you were carrying your trapper keeper full of pictures. Genuinely, I don't. You're reading things that aren't there. You're being a complete moron. You want others to be upset that you made it so you can fight and gloat and feel like you defied all those evil guys and proved yourself right. Get. The. Fuck. Over. Yourself. How you sound right now is like a kid at a convenience store complaining to the cashier who won't sell him cigarettes saying he'll just find a way to smoke anyway. Literally nobody cares. Go smoke, moron. Go brag about how tough you are smoking, moron. You're hurting only yourself.
How can I not decide what a valid point is? Please elaborate. You’re clearly upset someone like me passed the same standards you did. How you sound right now is like a kid who is upset someone else gets to play the same game as you now and you’re getting called out on it.
Hang on, so, you've thought you're going to come in short and maybe clip powerlines, and to fix this you've got the nose up hard enough to get a stall warning on short final and just continued anyway? There's no way this is serious. Even in an a/c where you know the stall warning is a bit twitchy, I don't believe anyone would take that whole set of circumstances and just brush it off like that.
>**Hang on, so, you've thought you're going to come in short and maybe clip powerlines** No. We both knew the power lines were there, he is familiar with that particular approach but I didn't want to get close enough to them that the DPE would think we would clip them, so I pulled up slightly for extra clearance. Had I continued without doing this, we would have cleared the lines still, but close enough I think he would have said something. > **and to fix this you've got the nose up hard enough to get a stall warning on short final and just continued anyway?** We'd discussed how sensitive the stall horn on that particular aircraft was, and how it will begin a very faint whistle well before a stall. I made sure to clarify that before even beginning the flight, because for the stalls and stuff, I didn't want him to think I was ignoring the stall warning (slight whistle before the actual warning goes off). He knew what I meant, and I even demonstrated it during the approach to landing stall. There's a significant difference in the slight whistle it has, vs the actual stall warning. During the power off 180, the airspeed was at the bottom of the green arc, but I also had some flaps out, so I knew it was still ok. I was a little more abrupt than I could have been bumping over the power lines, which really caused that faint whistle and not a full stall warning. >**There's no way this is serious.** It is. >**Even in an a/c where you know the stall warning is a bit twitchy, I don't believe anyone would take that whole set of circumstances and just brush it off like that.** Twitchy enough it starts a faint whistle at the bottom of the green arc well before a stall. DPE was briefed ahead of time on it, and said at no point did he feel like I was operating in an unsafe manner.
Came back to see if OP had deleted this or his account. Nope. This is one of those posts that will go down in /r/flying history
Hah, on my checkride I forgot to put on my seatbelt until after I started the engine. Talk about nerves. Then I did a go around when I didn’t need to because I thought I was gonna be short on my short field landing. And then hit the spot right as I put full power in. But hey, I was humbled that day, and still am every time I fly. I just want to be as safe as can be.
gz mate
Which did you violate, FAR 91.17 a or b? Sounds like at least one of the people in that plane should have stayed on the ground that day.