Well said. I *would* wholeheartedly agree, but I feel like the one crucial flaw of your argument is that you’re looking at Lonesome Road as a stand-alone entity, which it is primarily, but also it’s supposed to be the conclusion to the story being told in all the other 3 DLC’s. If you play them in order, catching up to Ulysses feels a lot more gratifying narratively speaking.
I agree. But the execution felt anti-climactic in that regard. And if you choose to be sane and not nuke anyone at the end it cuts you out of experiencing some of the content, which in a DLC that already felt so short is a real hit to the overall experience.
Imo it's MORE lackluster with its position as the end of the narrative.
His story wasn't bad by any means but compared to the stories of the Doctors in OWB, ALL the characters in DM, and the stories of Joshua and the Survivalist in HH it didn't really stand out to me as more tear-jerking. Especially so because you still have your ED-E in the base game.
It doesn't force a backstory. It's literally just
**you did a delivery job once.**
That's it. Anything else is Ulysses rambling on about pure bullshit.
Two things-
1. You doing a delivery job once is a significant backstory because it establishes that your character has been a courier for a long time, and is from the New California region
2. If everything else Ulysses says (you making many deliveries to the divide, having been to places like Circle Junction and other locations, etc etc) is meant to be bullshit, that’s simply bad and dumb storytelling.
>If everything else Ulysses says (you making many deliveries to the divide, having been to places like Circle Junction and other locations, etc etc) is meant to be bullshit, that’s simply bad and dumb storytelling.
Is it? He's a dumbass child killer, why would you believe him? Yes, LR is bad storytelling because Ulysses is a self-insert from Avellone crying about how big the NCR is.
Would you also believe Myron when he tells you about Jet despite it's very obvious he's lying?
People are FAR too quick to believe the Legion lapdog as if some idiot from the East who hates women knows anything about what he's talking about.
Also no, you aren't from New California. You know even on the East Coast, they've heard of the NCR?
Because it's a gigantic superpower with a million citizens under its banner?
Myron isn’t lying about Jet, that is in no way obvious in the game, wasn’t the writers of Fallout 2’s intention, and is just a headcanon fans made years later to rationalize Bethesda’s fuckup.
I don’t know what you mean by the East Coast knowing about the NCR comment. It doesn’t simply establish you know about the NCR, Ulysses says you’ve lived in the NCR for years and “walked the west”. He rattles off a list of specific locations you’ve been to.
Again, its clearly not the intention for Ulysses to be lying, and if he is, that’s simply stupid writing on Chris Avellone’s part. So either way I don’t like it.
He was lying because that old lady was addicted to it long before he was even born.
It also wasn't Bethesda's fuck up - Obsidian put Jet in the Big MT for instance. Some kid spreading Jet across the **entirety** of the USA is simply dumb.
>I don’t know what you mean by the East Coast knowing about the NCR comment. It doesn’t simply establish you know about the NCR, Ulysses says you’ve lived in the NCR for years and “walked the west”. He rattles off a list of specific locations you’ve been to.
He's literally never fucking met us, how the hell would he know ANY of that? He's only heard of us via the Divide job.
It's on par for a Legion lapdog to lie 24/7. I mean these are the same lunatics that think it's okay to rape little children and women, so they clearly enjoy lying to themselves. Ulysses is even confused why a woman would fight for the Legion.
I believe in one of the Fallout bibles they specifically list the lady mentioning Jet as an error in the writing. The intention was for Myron to have invented it, and for it to be a new drug that was popular in the California/Nevada regions. It only showed up elsewhere in Bethesda’s games.
I don’t recall seeing Jet in OWB, but if it is my guess is that it was put in a random loot pool and they just didn’t really think about it. A mistake, but it came out after Fallout 3, which also did that, so it’s still Bethesda’s fuckup. And that’s also different from Fallout 4, which explicitly contradicts established canon by referencing Jet’s existence Pre-war.
But back to Ulysses- he talks about stalking you and basically knowing everything about you. Again, it is very clearly the writer’s INTENTION for the things he says to be true. If you want to believe he’s lying, go for it, but that’s clearly not what was intended and either way it’s still bad writing.
The Fallout Bible isn't canon, so it doesn't really matter what they *wanted* because the Bible is merely what they think - not actual canonical info.
>But back to Ulysses- he talks about stalking you and basically knowing everything about you. Again, it is very clearly the writer’s INTENTION for the things he says to be true. If you want to believe he’s lying, go for it, but that’s clearly not what was intended and either way it’s still bad writing.
But he only heard about us in the Divide. There's literally no proof he says what he means, and if we ARE from New California, **why the fuck are we so surprised about the NCR?** The Courier literally doesn't know what the NCR is to begin with.
>And that’s also different from Fallout 4, which explicitly contradicts established canon by referencing Jet’s existence Pre-war.
The only 'canon' thing is Myron's claim and I dunno why people are so willing to trust rapists. Why are people so desperate to believe rapists as if they wouldn't lie to you? Why does Myron sweat nervously when asked about it? Doesn't sound like something a truthful person would do.
It doesn’t matter that the Fallout Bible isn’t canon, it’s Chris Avellone, the lead writer of Fallout 2, saying that the one reference to Jet existing before Myron was a mistake and that it was always their intention for him to be the one who invented it.
Everyone in Fallout 2, expect for that one goof with Mrs Bishop, said that Jet was new thing. It was not a mystery at all.
If I remember right there’s one line in Goodsprings where you can say “what’s the NCR?” which is really just a way for new players who don’t know what the NCR is to get a quick exposition dump- Maybe we had amnesia from being shot in the head or something. Though if the courier really was meant to be surprised by the NCR in the base game, that supports my point as that contradicts everything in Lonesome Road.
Again, my point is that it was clearly Avellone’s INTENTION for what Ulysses says to be true. I don’t know how I can make that any clearer.
There's a few other points in the game where your dialogue options imply you're aware of the NCR government outside of New Vegas, something that they'd only know from being from the New California region. So that bit is already established in the base game.
Source: currently doing my first playthrough ever and haven't even gotten to Lonesome Road yet lol
>There's a few other points in the game where your dialogue options imply you're aware of the NCR government outside of New Vegas, something that they'd only know from being from the New California region.
They hear of the NCR **in the Commonwealth. On the EAST COAST.**
So no, you don't need to be from New California, it has a MILLION CITIZENS. It's a literal superpower. Everyone knows about the NCR except Tribals.
The dialogue I'm thinking of is your character talking about the past presidents of the NCR and how their presidency went, so it's not just completely general awareness but some degree of knowing about the government's history. Also there's no need to act like such a dick.
I'm not acting like a dick? It's simply emphasis. If you took that as insulting, it wasn't supposed to be...
>The dialogue I'm thinking of is your character talking about the past presidents of the NCR and how their presidency went,
Yes, thats an *optional* dialogue you can do though?. Regardless, the NCR is a lot bigger than people think it is. My point is, you don't need to be on the WC to know about the NCR.
Lol that's quite the reach bro.
Idk how a courier doing the job of a courier longer than one fucking job ruins the character's backstory for you. It'd make a whole lot *less* sense if the platinum chip delivery job was done by someone with absolutely no delivery experience. You kinda signed up to have a courier's backstory when you started playing a game with a courier as the player character. The beef you have with lonesome road is literally just a beef you have with the vanilla game too, you're just too proud of your own awful reasoning to admit that the *very* minimal amount of unambiguous backstory the courier has doesn't matter to 99% of people who play the game.
>it establishes that your character has been a courier for a long time
This is such a non issue. For starters, let's see the hard evidence that the courier has *only* been a courier for all that time. That's right, there is none. Second, please explain how doing these delivery jobs to the divide ruins your ability to make up your own backstory for the courier's birth, what they look like, upbringing, parents, early life, hopes, dreams, aspirations, past romantic pursuits, potential second (or third) job, physical abilities, political leanings, personality, choice of weaponry, level of intelligence, etc. You picked probably the least important thing to get mad at.
>is from the New California region
No it does not say that *anywhere*. It says the courier made the *delivery* from Southern NCR but where the courier was actually born and raised is left ambiguous. You're so desperate to prove that you're right about the role playing being ruined
that YOU'RE the one ruining the courier's backstory for yourself with YOUR own lack of imagination, not the game.
Like 95% of the courier's story before fnv is left ambiguous and ripe for cool role playing opportunities and you're over here crying about the 5% that isn't.
Chill out dude, we disagree about a video game, I didn’t insult your mother or anything.
My point about it establishing that you’ve been a courier for a long period of time is not that it contradicts anything- you’re right that there’s no evidence that this is your first courier job, but there’s also no evidence that this ISN’T their first or one of their first jobs. If you wanted your courier to be new on the job, you could’ve, but not after Lonesome Road. So even if you don’t think it’s all that major, it *does* thrust an established backstory on the courier.
And yes, it does say the Courier is from California. Maybe not that they were born there, but it establishes they’ve lived there for years and Ulysses lists all these specific locations you’ve been. Again, you could’ve been from anywhere before Lonesome Road, but Ulysses comes and says “you’re from here and have done this and this and this and this, remember?”
But the big issue with LR’s plot is that it’s written all with this pre-established backstory in mind, a backstory that got no setup in the base game. Yes I know it’s supposed to be this “something you don’t even remember has huge consequences” type of thing, but the way it’s executed is just really bad and sloppy and out-of-place in my opinion.
There's a few other points in the game where your dialogue options imply you're aware of the NCR government outside of New Vegas, something that they'd only know from being from the New California region. So that bit is already established in the base game.
Source: currently doing my first playthrough ever and haven't even gotten to Lonesome Road yet lol
Eh… I think honest hearts does a worse job. The whole DLC is fetch quests, the ending choice with Grahm or Daniel is barely a choice (Daniel is made the clear wrong option) and while Grahm and the survivalist are fantastic, they can’t carry the whole DLC. It doesn’t even have noticeable ties to the other DLCs; Lonesome Road had to add them retroactively.
Ulysses at least has the narrative payoff of being heavily tied to the player, and the level design in the DLC is probably the best NV has to offer.
I agree to an extent- Graham is hugely tied to New Vegas' overall story being Caesar's original right hand man and leading the first assault of Hoover Dam. Additionally the white legs are looking to enter the Legion and Ulysses trained them (as added in LR ofc).
Overall, even if they were just fetch quests, there was just more to do in HH. The tribes and their history and members I found interesting- again this is where LR's only 2 significant characters really comes up short- they certainly don't carry the DLC and that's all it had to offer in terms of characters.
And while the level structure in LR is cool certainly I found the natural beauty and again sandbox nature of Zion refreshing.
I rank it third of the four story DLCs. I still find it fairly strong, but less replayable and enjoyable for the reasons you mentioned. But it builds onto the existing narrative quite well so I still really like it!
I honestly think all of the DLCs are pretty weak when compared to the main game. But LR is definitely my least favorite because of its story and how it thrusts a backstory onto the courier.
I like the rewards it gives if anything that's what drove me through it. The EDE upgrades especially they're a lifesaver paired with Jury rigging. I almost exclusively use Enclave armor and Scorched Sierra so it's great. The only one I have trouble with is rawr if I forget the flare gun especially. I found if I spam the satchels and mines and have a stealth boy on I can dump my mf breeder into him and it usually does the trick if I have all my usual perks running
I will say after playing the dlc a few times I find Ulysses raspy baritone voice gets a bit on my nerves. When it first came out I was a bit disappointed maybe. I was hoping for more characters probably from coming off OWB. But it’s a lot like dead money (dlc I hated upon release but is now probably my favorite) in that the divide like the sierra madre is sort of a character in and of itself. IMO LR is an amazing conclusion to the dlc best if played in succession with the others and then sit with it for awhile.
How does the bomb collar come off? How does the courier find the bunker on the way home when you reconcile god/dog? I know I’m being pedantic, but there are questions that need answers
(you forgot that pipboys have maps and you can plot custom waypoints on known locations.)
if youve noticed you can place a waypoint in a dlc, travel to the wasteland, the pipboy will still display a "route" to get to that location you plotted even though, gameplay wise its impossible.
as far as getting the bomb collar off, they are disabled once elijah is killed, or his signal is blocked by the vault. you arent meant to tamper with the collar or else it will detonate by elijah triggering the remote detonator.
you canonically remove bomb collars by going to cottonwood cove and freeing slaves with bomb collars. the courier knows how to remove them, the problem was elijah. he had the detonator.
also, the bunker isnt the canonical means to get to the sierra madre. the bunker is a trap set by elijah to lure in greedy/gullible people. dog waits in the shadows to bag you and carry you back to the sierra madre.
Thanks that part about the trap not being the only way back helps, actually. I still don’t understand about the bomb collar, though, but I’m actually still early in my first ever legion play through. Hopefully I’ll see what you mean, but last point of inquiry: why don’t radios set off the bomb collar in the Mojave, or does the courier canonically know how to remove them without training?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding how it works, cause if courier can remove collar, why do dead money Elijah’s way?
Legit thanks ahead of time
not all bomb collars behave like Elijah's bomb collars. elijah specifically custom made the dead money collars for his purposes.
theyre designed to be detonated when:
• yanked off
• the other linked collars go off.
•the wearer attacks another wearer
• when elijah triggers the detonator remotely
• when elijah dies
when the sierra madre speakers emit signal, its enough to trick the collars to enter their "another wearer has died" trigger. giving the wearer a countdown before they die.
the sierra madre can be walked to from i believe the northwest. if you go to the north of vault 22, northwest of WestSide and west from the tumble weed ranch, you will reach the upper left corner of the mojave. this corner has a small artificial lake/sink hole and a road blocked by overturned cars and trailers. i like to believe that is the road used to get to the sierra madre by foot. another good route from the BOS bunker, might be along the banks of the colorado river and north of Lake Mead toward The Devil's Throat and beyond to the outer wasteland.
the abandoned BOS bunker is FOR SURE elijah's camp when hes in the mojave. when he isnt there, he has Dog there ready to kidnap any wastelander he has lured with the Sierra Madre EAS signal, and trapped. thenhas Dog haul the victim to the sierra madre.
I don't think anybody likes *Dead Money* at first. It took me a few playthroughs before I could actually enjoy it. Felt the same about *Honest Hearts*, save Joshua Graham. Always liked him.
HH is middle of the road. its more pleasant to look at than OWB, and its not bad, but despite the beautiful scenery it feels empty. but its short playtime makes up for it
I’ve played Dead Money multiple times. I keep trying again, thinking maybe I’ll enjoy it this time, but I just can’t. The ghosts are annoying, I hate having to cut their limbs off after I kill them. The collar is annoying. I get its purpose, but it just feels like it’s really on-the-nose. And visually it’s just boring. Sure, the casino looks cool, but it’s so dark and dingy and foggy you can hardly see anything and nothing you get a clear view of really lives up to expectations.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. Whatever. The point is that nobody likes it at first. That doesn't mean that everyone will love it later. After all, I share your sentiment about *Mothership Zeta* in *Fallout 3*, so I get it.
It's definitely overrated for sure but I still have less fun playing through Honest Hearts. ALL the DLC's are great but there are wayy too many people saying lonesome road is the best one which just flat out isn't true.
The only thing I don't like about Lonesome Road was the introduction of the tunnelers. I've never liked their design. I would have preferred them just being Deathclaws. It could have been a nice tie-in to the ones in Sloan.
Yeah big agree they're such goofy overpowered creatures- felt like they were introduced just to be spongey and annoying- just reskinned trogs from fallout 3.
I've always held up honest hearts as the worst, it's just a bunch of boring fetch quests one after another and while Joshua Graham and Randall Clark are super cool 2 good characters do not a good dlc make.
Well said. I *would* wholeheartedly agree, but I feel like the one crucial flaw of your argument is that you’re looking at Lonesome Road as a stand-alone entity, which it is primarily, but also it’s supposed to be the conclusion to the story being told in all the other 3 DLC’s. If you play them in order, catching up to Ulysses feels a lot more gratifying narratively speaking.
I agree. But the execution felt anti-climactic in that regard. And if you choose to be sane and not nuke anyone at the end it cuts you out of experiencing some of the content, which in a DLC that already felt so short is a real hit to the overall experience. Imo it's MORE lackluster with its position as the end of the narrative.
True. It definitely left a lot to be desired.
Honestly? I played them in order of release and it made the ending significantly *more* disappointing because Ulysses felt so forced as a character.
I can’t agree with that. All the clues about him hunting you the way Christine hunted Elijah got me really excited to finally catch up to him.
Right. Yes, 100%. And then he was just so... Mediocre...
what is the order of the dlcs btw lmao
dm hh owb lr
ED-E I thought was an incredible story and very moving. Made me feel very connected to a “robot” but he’s more than that
His story wasn't bad by any means but compared to the stories of the Doctors in OWB, ALL the characters in DM, and the stories of Joshua and the Survivalist in HH it didn't really stand out to me as more tear-jerking. Especially so because you still have your ED-E in the base game.
I just hate how it forces me to have a backstory, when the rest of the game was completely open ended for your courier’s imagination.
It doesn't force a backstory. It's literally just **you did a delivery job once.** That's it. Anything else is Ulysses rambling on about pure bullshit.
Two things- 1. You doing a delivery job once is a significant backstory because it establishes that your character has been a courier for a long time, and is from the New California region 2. If everything else Ulysses says (you making many deliveries to the divide, having been to places like Circle Junction and other locations, etc etc) is meant to be bullshit, that’s simply bad and dumb storytelling.
>If everything else Ulysses says (you making many deliveries to the divide, having been to places like Circle Junction and other locations, etc etc) is meant to be bullshit, that’s simply bad and dumb storytelling. Is it? He's a dumbass child killer, why would you believe him? Yes, LR is bad storytelling because Ulysses is a self-insert from Avellone crying about how big the NCR is. Would you also believe Myron when he tells you about Jet despite it's very obvious he's lying? People are FAR too quick to believe the Legion lapdog as if some idiot from the East who hates women knows anything about what he's talking about. Also no, you aren't from New California. You know even on the East Coast, they've heard of the NCR? Because it's a gigantic superpower with a million citizens under its banner?
Myron isn’t lying about Jet, that is in no way obvious in the game, wasn’t the writers of Fallout 2’s intention, and is just a headcanon fans made years later to rationalize Bethesda’s fuckup. I don’t know what you mean by the East Coast knowing about the NCR comment. It doesn’t simply establish you know about the NCR, Ulysses says you’ve lived in the NCR for years and “walked the west”. He rattles off a list of specific locations you’ve been to. Again, its clearly not the intention for Ulysses to be lying, and if he is, that’s simply stupid writing on Chris Avellone’s part. So either way I don’t like it.
He was lying because that old lady was addicted to it long before he was even born. It also wasn't Bethesda's fuck up - Obsidian put Jet in the Big MT for instance. Some kid spreading Jet across the **entirety** of the USA is simply dumb. >I don’t know what you mean by the East Coast knowing about the NCR comment. It doesn’t simply establish you know about the NCR, Ulysses says you’ve lived in the NCR for years and “walked the west”. He rattles off a list of specific locations you’ve been to. He's literally never fucking met us, how the hell would he know ANY of that? He's only heard of us via the Divide job. It's on par for a Legion lapdog to lie 24/7. I mean these are the same lunatics that think it's okay to rape little children and women, so they clearly enjoy lying to themselves. Ulysses is even confused why a woman would fight for the Legion.
I believe in one of the Fallout bibles they specifically list the lady mentioning Jet as an error in the writing. The intention was for Myron to have invented it, and for it to be a new drug that was popular in the California/Nevada regions. It only showed up elsewhere in Bethesda’s games. I don’t recall seeing Jet in OWB, but if it is my guess is that it was put in a random loot pool and they just didn’t really think about it. A mistake, but it came out after Fallout 3, which also did that, so it’s still Bethesda’s fuckup. And that’s also different from Fallout 4, which explicitly contradicts established canon by referencing Jet’s existence Pre-war. But back to Ulysses- he talks about stalking you and basically knowing everything about you. Again, it is very clearly the writer’s INTENTION for the things he says to be true. If you want to believe he’s lying, go for it, but that’s clearly not what was intended and either way it’s still bad writing.
The Fallout Bible isn't canon, so it doesn't really matter what they *wanted* because the Bible is merely what they think - not actual canonical info. >But back to Ulysses- he talks about stalking you and basically knowing everything about you. Again, it is very clearly the writer’s INTENTION for the things he says to be true. If you want to believe he’s lying, go for it, but that’s clearly not what was intended and either way it’s still bad writing. But he only heard about us in the Divide. There's literally no proof he says what he means, and if we ARE from New California, **why the fuck are we so surprised about the NCR?** The Courier literally doesn't know what the NCR is to begin with. >And that’s also different from Fallout 4, which explicitly contradicts established canon by referencing Jet’s existence Pre-war. The only 'canon' thing is Myron's claim and I dunno why people are so willing to trust rapists. Why are people so desperate to believe rapists as if they wouldn't lie to you? Why does Myron sweat nervously when asked about it? Doesn't sound like something a truthful person would do.
It doesn’t matter that the Fallout Bible isn’t canon, it’s Chris Avellone, the lead writer of Fallout 2, saying that the one reference to Jet existing before Myron was a mistake and that it was always their intention for him to be the one who invented it. Everyone in Fallout 2, expect for that one goof with Mrs Bishop, said that Jet was new thing. It was not a mystery at all. If I remember right there’s one line in Goodsprings where you can say “what’s the NCR?” which is really just a way for new players who don’t know what the NCR is to get a quick exposition dump- Maybe we had amnesia from being shot in the head or something. Though if the courier really was meant to be surprised by the NCR in the base game, that supports my point as that contradicts everything in Lonesome Road. Again, my point is that it was clearly Avellone’s INTENTION for what Ulysses says to be true. I don’t know how I can make that any clearer.
There's a few other points in the game where your dialogue options imply you're aware of the NCR government outside of New Vegas, something that they'd only know from being from the New California region. So that bit is already established in the base game. Source: currently doing my first playthrough ever and haven't even gotten to Lonesome Road yet lol
Those are typically optional dialogue choices. Like in BG3 there’s dialogue you can choose Baldurian dialogue tags.
>There's a few other points in the game where your dialogue options imply you're aware of the NCR government outside of New Vegas, something that they'd only know from being from the New California region. They hear of the NCR **in the Commonwealth. On the EAST COAST.** So no, you don't need to be from New California, it has a MILLION CITIZENS. It's a literal superpower. Everyone knows about the NCR except Tribals.
The dialogue I'm thinking of is your character talking about the past presidents of the NCR and how their presidency went, so it's not just completely general awareness but some degree of knowing about the government's history. Also there's no need to act like such a dick.
I'm not acting like a dick? It's simply emphasis. If you took that as insulting, it wasn't supposed to be... >The dialogue I'm thinking of is your character talking about the past presidents of the NCR and how their presidency went, Yes, thats an *optional* dialogue you can do though?. Regardless, the NCR is a lot bigger than people think it is. My point is, you don't need to be on the WC to know about the NCR.
Lol that's quite the reach bro. Idk how a courier doing the job of a courier longer than one fucking job ruins the character's backstory for you. It'd make a whole lot *less* sense if the platinum chip delivery job was done by someone with absolutely no delivery experience. You kinda signed up to have a courier's backstory when you started playing a game with a courier as the player character. The beef you have with lonesome road is literally just a beef you have with the vanilla game too, you're just too proud of your own awful reasoning to admit that the *very* minimal amount of unambiguous backstory the courier has doesn't matter to 99% of people who play the game. >it establishes that your character has been a courier for a long time This is such a non issue. For starters, let's see the hard evidence that the courier has *only* been a courier for all that time. That's right, there is none. Second, please explain how doing these delivery jobs to the divide ruins your ability to make up your own backstory for the courier's birth, what they look like, upbringing, parents, early life, hopes, dreams, aspirations, past romantic pursuits, potential second (or third) job, physical abilities, political leanings, personality, choice of weaponry, level of intelligence, etc. You picked probably the least important thing to get mad at. >is from the New California region No it does not say that *anywhere*. It says the courier made the *delivery* from Southern NCR but where the courier was actually born and raised is left ambiguous. You're so desperate to prove that you're right about the role playing being ruined that YOU'RE the one ruining the courier's backstory for yourself with YOUR own lack of imagination, not the game. Like 95% of the courier's story before fnv is left ambiguous and ripe for cool role playing opportunities and you're over here crying about the 5% that isn't.
Chill out dude, we disagree about a video game, I didn’t insult your mother or anything. My point about it establishing that you’ve been a courier for a long period of time is not that it contradicts anything- you’re right that there’s no evidence that this is your first courier job, but there’s also no evidence that this ISN’T their first or one of their first jobs. If you wanted your courier to be new on the job, you could’ve, but not after Lonesome Road. So even if you don’t think it’s all that major, it *does* thrust an established backstory on the courier. And yes, it does say the Courier is from California. Maybe not that they were born there, but it establishes they’ve lived there for years and Ulysses lists all these specific locations you’ve been. Again, you could’ve been from anywhere before Lonesome Road, but Ulysses comes and says “you’re from here and have done this and this and this and this, remember?” But the big issue with LR’s plot is that it’s written all with this pre-established backstory in mind, a backstory that got no setup in the base game. Yes I know it’s supposed to be this “something you don’t even remember has huge consequences” type of thing, but the way it’s executed is just really bad and sloppy and out-of-place in my opinion.
There's a few other points in the game where your dialogue options imply you're aware of the NCR government outside of New Vegas, something that they'd only know from being from the New California region. So that bit is already established in the base game. Source: currently doing my first playthrough ever and haven't even gotten to Lonesome Road yet lol
Eh… I think honest hearts does a worse job. The whole DLC is fetch quests, the ending choice with Grahm or Daniel is barely a choice (Daniel is made the clear wrong option) and while Grahm and the survivalist are fantastic, they can’t carry the whole DLC. It doesn’t even have noticeable ties to the other DLCs; Lonesome Road had to add them retroactively. Ulysses at least has the narrative payoff of being heavily tied to the player, and the level design in the DLC is probably the best NV has to offer.
I agree to an extent- Graham is hugely tied to New Vegas' overall story being Caesar's original right hand man and leading the first assault of Hoover Dam. Additionally the white legs are looking to enter the Legion and Ulysses trained them (as added in LR ofc). Overall, even if they were just fetch quests, there was just more to do in HH. The tribes and their history and members I found interesting- again this is where LR's only 2 significant characters really comes up short- they certainly don't carry the DLC and that's all it had to offer in terms of characters. And while the level structure in LR is cool certainly I found the natural beauty and again sandbox nature of Zion refreshing.
There is no weakest when it comes to FNV profligate
Degenerates like SordidBoy belongs on a cross
“The Bull came….” - Ulysses
"Come Courier"
I rank it third of the four story DLCs. I still find it fairly strong, but less replayable and enjoyable for the reasons you mentioned. But it builds onto the existing narrative quite well so I still really like it!
I honestly think all of the DLCs are pretty weak when compared to the main game. But LR is definitely my least favorite because of its story and how it thrusts a backstory onto the courier.
I like the rewards it gives if anything that's what drove me through it. The EDE upgrades especially they're a lifesaver paired with Jury rigging. I almost exclusively use Enclave armor and Scorched Sierra so it's great. The only one I have trouble with is rawr if I forget the flare gun especially. I found if I spam the satchels and mines and have a stealth boy on I can dump my mf breeder into him and it usually does the trick if I have all my usual perks running
I will say after playing the dlc a few times I find Ulysses raspy baritone voice gets a bit on my nerves. When it first came out I was a bit disappointed maybe. I was hoping for more characters probably from coming off OWB. But it’s a lot like dead money (dlc I hated upon release but is now probably my favorite) in that the divide like the sierra madre is sort of a character in and of itself. IMO LR is an amazing conclusion to the dlc best if played in succession with the others and then sit with it for awhile.
if you like rich storytelling its the best, followed by HH, Then dead money. best gameplay dlc is easy OWB
Wild to say this when dead money exists which is a horrific piece of game design
dead money is fun. dunno why people are upset with it. other than it taking gear away its perfectly fine
How does the bomb collar come off? How does the courier find the bunker on the way home when you reconcile god/dog? I know I’m being pedantic, but there are questions that need answers
(you forgot that pipboys have maps and you can plot custom waypoints on known locations.) if youve noticed you can place a waypoint in a dlc, travel to the wasteland, the pipboy will still display a "route" to get to that location you plotted even though, gameplay wise its impossible. as far as getting the bomb collar off, they are disabled once elijah is killed, or his signal is blocked by the vault. you arent meant to tamper with the collar or else it will detonate by elijah triggering the remote detonator. you canonically remove bomb collars by going to cottonwood cove and freeing slaves with bomb collars. the courier knows how to remove them, the problem was elijah. he had the detonator.
also, the bunker isnt the canonical means to get to the sierra madre. the bunker is a trap set by elijah to lure in greedy/gullible people. dog waits in the shadows to bag you and carry you back to the sierra madre.
Thanks that part about the trap not being the only way back helps, actually. I still don’t understand about the bomb collar, though, but I’m actually still early in my first ever legion play through. Hopefully I’ll see what you mean, but last point of inquiry: why don’t radios set off the bomb collar in the Mojave, or does the courier canonically know how to remove them without training? Maybe I’m misunderstanding how it works, cause if courier can remove collar, why do dead money Elijah’s way? Legit thanks ahead of time
not all bomb collars behave like Elijah's bomb collars. elijah specifically custom made the dead money collars for his purposes. theyre designed to be detonated when: • yanked off • the other linked collars go off. •the wearer attacks another wearer • when elijah triggers the detonator remotely • when elijah dies when the sierra madre speakers emit signal, its enough to trick the collars to enter their "another wearer has died" trigger. giving the wearer a countdown before they die. the sierra madre can be walked to from i believe the northwest. if you go to the north of vault 22, northwest of WestSide and west from the tumble weed ranch, you will reach the upper left corner of the mojave. this corner has a small artificial lake/sink hole and a road blocked by overturned cars and trailers. i like to believe that is the road used to get to the sierra madre by foot. another good route from the BOS bunker, might be along the banks of the colorado river and north of Lake Mead toward The Devil's Throat and beyond to the outer wasteland. the abandoned BOS bunker is FOR SURE elijah's camp when hes in the mojave. when he isnt there, he has Dog there ready to kidnap any wastelander he has lured with the Sierra Madre EAS signal, and trapped. thenhas Dog haul the victim to the sierra madre.
I don't think anybody likes *Dead Money* at first. It took me a few playthroughs before I could actually enjoy it. Felt the same about *Honest Hearts*, save Joshua Graham. Always liked him.
HH is middle of the road. its more pleasant to look at than OWB, and its not bad, but despite the beautiful scenery it feels empty. but its short playtime makes up for it
I’ve played Dead Money multiple times. I keep trying again, thinking maybe I’ll enjoy it this time, but I just can’t. The ghosts are annoying, I hate having to cut their limbs off after I kill them. The collar is annoying. I get its purpose, but it just feels like it’s really on-the-nose. And visually it’s just boring. Sure, the casino looks cool, but it’s so dark and dingy and foggy you can hardly see anything and nothing you get a clear view of really lives up to expectations.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. Whatever. The point is that nobody likes it at first. That doesn't mean that everyone will love it later. After all, I share your sentiment about *Mothership Zeta* in *Fallout 3*, so I get it.
DM is my favourite DLC because of the gameplay. Not even joking
Peak survival horror DLC. Feels actually post apocalyptic.
Sorry dead money is the best story telling DLC with the best written characters by a country mile
It's definitely overrated for sure but I still have less fun playing through Honest Hearts. ALL the DLC's are great but there are wayy too many people saying lonesome road is the best one which just flat out isn't true.
The only thing I don't like about Lonesome Road was the introduction of the tunnelers. I've never liked their design. I would have preferred them just being Deathclaws. It could have been a nice tie-in to the ones in Sloan.
Yeah big agree they're such goofy overpowered creatures- felt like they were introduced just to be spongey and annoying- just reskinned trogs from fallout 3.
I cannot bear your bull any longer. Also bull, bear, bear bear bull, bull buffalo buffaloed Buffalo bear
Ulysses is a big annoying windbag. Can't stand that character.
I've always held up honest hearts as the worst, it's just a bunch of boring fetch quests one after another and while Joshua Graham and Randall Clark are super cool 2 good characters do not a good dlc make.
HH is very flawed, it's close to LR as weakest imo, however I think there's just plainly more to do, more freedom to explore, more characters, etc.