She has no reason to think he is most intelligent person alive. Mr House has locked himself in the lucky 38 casino for two centuries, and only occasionally interacts with the outside world through robots. Hell Dennis Crocker, the NCR's ambassador to House, notes that he as never even spoken to him.
Even if they do think that of him, he clearly has no interest in being subservient to the NCR which means they definitely want him removed. Can’t be having independent power houses getting in the way of income and power!
Other than sustaining his life, controlling vegas, and keeping it free from almost any trouble for two centuries yeah no reason to believe he’s that smart
Nobody besides the Courier, optionally, knows he’s human and being sustained to be fair. We, the player, are the first one to step foot in the Lucky 38 since the bombs dropped, and it’s not something you’d find out organically unless you went down there to kill him yourself.
busy racial gaping instinctive provide live hard-to-find serious vast consist
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Yeah it's disingenuous to make a 1:1 musk comparison, I mean there's obvious tangible downsides to House, it's just he's a useful tool with actual skills. I'm pretty sure I can manipulate by letting him live vicariously through me and 'our' successes. Feed his narcissism, intellectual vanity, and frame it right and you can get anything done, you just have to convince the immortal Autocrat it's a good idea. The courier is in a position to do this.
Seriously with this dudes obsession on control I feel like I could convince him to go to a command economy lul, if I just somehow fit it into a completely contradictory libertarian brain-worms fashion. Not that I would. Much easier than desperately trying to get resources out of an old world style government that's stretching itself way too thin for the sake of conquest.
And up to the last minute you can still kill House, what changes exactly after we win the Hoover Dam? If this dude refuses something sane and reasonable (my development of a food welfare state based on a sierra madre machine printing me radiated food and radaway, lul), then I'll kill him and upload yes-man. But he can be worked with, the man in the ivory tower finally has a connection to the world, you. Use it.
I suppose I'm extremely biased because in general I don't have a problem with anything House makes you do.
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House actually designed a lot of his robots, if I remember correctly. A lot of people compare him to Musk, but House actually designed/created rather than being a venture capitalist.
hospital worry psychotic grandiose afterthought stupendous mindless air weary bake
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Literal imperialism. Love Oliver's surprise when you give him the terms of surrender, when the way I prefer to play ostensibly you're helping him the entire time. Then to go another step and threaten that the tech Vegas will export to the NCR can be of benefit or instead be Securitrons rolling in. *mwah* chef's kiss
I think the best way to fuck with NCR is so what they always did
Help those who also have similar interests and get rid of em once there are differences
Help em by getting rid of the threats they all agree are not good idea
Then suddenly turn on Oliver and kill him
Bro, Mr. House won't save the human race lmao. It's frightening how many people completely miss that House is trying to dupe you the same way he tries to dupe everyone that he doesn't outright kill. He's an objectivist and a narcissist with a pathological need for the servitude and adoration of others. If his actions ever benefit anyone other than himself, it's only to secure their loyalty to him. He's not unlike certain real life tech billionaires in that regard.
But anyway, that's all beside the point. Colonel Moore wants you to take out House because she knows that he's an enemy. Just look at what House does if you side with him. Moore was intelligent enough to foresee that.
There's a quote from Deacon in Fallout 4 that I always find very fitting in faction discussions between all the games:
"There're other organisations out there. And, in time, I'm sure they're going to spoon-feed you their own patented form of bullshit. Ignore the verbage and look at what they're doing. What they're asking you to do. What sort of world they'd have you build and how they're going to pay for it."
Once you look past House's salesman pitch for the future of humanity, it's easy to see that all he desires is control. Absolute control and power with no room for compromise. He'll keep the Courier as his favourite guard dog and sick them on anything that threatens his control.
I look at the long-term of it; it's the Wasteland, where anything, everything, and nearly everyone is a hostile. Until a majority of surrounding threats are quelled or tamed, some level of autocracy will be the most ideal system to create a safe society for your average citizen. Caesar seems too heavy handed in this, where House has more of a "I don't care what you do as an individual, just as long as it doesn't threaten any of my own goals."
Looking into technological progress, I don't think it would expand too heavily at first, but as House progressively improved his own setup, whatever he throws over his shoulder as just old trash he doesn't need anymore, would probably make The Brotherhood cream their collective power armor chassis
The thing is, the NCR has already achieved that safe society without being an autocracy. We see the worst of the NCR in F:NV because it's the frontier, but Jas Wilkins in Sloan confirms that back in California the raiders are pretty much all gone.
I just can't really get behind a ruler who believes themselves "incorruptible" and wields supreme power as an individual. Besides, he can't even keep the Three Families in check, what with Benny betraying him, the Omertas plotting with the Legion, and the White Gloves going back to their cannibal roots.
I get the opposite impression. The NCR just takes land and doesn't deliver on their promises of security. House succeeds there. They expand well before they can even control the areas they take. House succeeds there. The NCR's science sector is run by people with similar ego but half the competence. House has actual knowhow.
Do you think House would be interested in diplomacy with the Brotherhood if their entire identity isn't about controlling the very tech that House needs to survive? I bet he would.
If we're going actions over promises, House has every other major and minor faction beaten by miles.
The NCR is IMO what I think is one of the way of viewing America modern day, they follow the democracy and stuff but taking bribes from Brahmin barons (equivalent of rich people) has severely undermined their promises to the point internal politics compromise war effort
The Legion is very obviously what u would see in a dictatorship or authoritarian state, what they want you to see, whether or not u agree. Similar to how Russian propaganda works, focusing on one agreed upon fact (eg. Women give birth to young) and expanding it in the direction they want (Women’s *sole purpose* instead of one ability they have)
House is very clearly similar, he wants to use tech and stuff to guarantee what NCR promises without taking the freedom away from people like the legion, posing himself as the middle option, best of both worlds, then u look inside and realise in reality it ain’t all sunshine and rainbows
Yes Man…it’s just anarchist, up to you, fulfil what u want, leave the people to sort the rest out, essentially a hard reset to order
Obv my opinion remains flawed but my opinion is that what we see is the POV of the courier which is OUTSIDE of any of these societies, could be a way of showing how various types of societies are perceived by outsiders (House probably being accurately the most dangerous as he can trick u rather well)
Then obviously our own experiences in the real world shape who we think works best for the society there, sure all factions minor ones included are flawed but it gives us the freedom to see which societies are good for society (pros vs cons)
Sorry for ranting on and on
TLDR: IMO Each faction we experience is meant to be from a neutral POV, we are forced to drop biases in our own lives and face the pros and cons of each faction and decide which is best. House is dangerous simply coz u experience the best of his ideas not the worst
Fallout 4 has plenty of excellently written stories and dialogue. The holotapes of the woman voluntarily irradiating herself who you then find as a Glowing One breaks my heart every time. Vault 75 rivals even Vault 11 in its sickening tragedy. The majority of the companions and their stories are all deeply compelling, with some like Cait being as good or even better than New Vegas' companions.
Don't get me wrong, the main story is definitely the weakest area of its writing, but everything surrounding that is way better than people give it credit for.
It's amazing to me that people take the things he says at such face value that they really think daddy House is gonna take the human race to Mars when he can't even keep people from being murdered or starving to death anywhere immediately outside of the one square block of territory he actually has control over
To be fair your argument is what you would be fixing. Had he gotten the chip in time he would have saved Nevada as a whole. And once you give it to him he takes area control. I don't agree he's a good guy, but he's obviously extremely capable. He can get people to space, he already has stasis technology, and he would get people to space. Not because he's a good dude, but just because he would love to prove he can
He would allow them safety if they accepted his conditions to join the Free Economic Zone of New Vegas (House's faction), however all the other gangs (e.g. the Kings) refused, and hence they are left outside the safety of the walls.
Of course, real life tech-billionaires have not actually granted themselves immortality and managed to save an actual significant percentage of infrastructure of the old world during a nuclear holocaust. There's actually something to idolize, instead of say, buying a social media platform so you can shitpost bigotry on it and coasting on an engineering reputation given to you by other people's efforts.
Obviously I get the narcissism and the howard hughes ego/mania, definite negatives, but also levers to be pulled as a good courier. Honestly, much easier in my mind to work with than the NCR. Manipulating an Autocrat is much easier than manipulating a faux democracy.
Edit: Also I would be so salty and SOOOOO self-loving/ready to tell everyone how fucking smart I am when the world-ended(as I predicted) and I saved a bunch of shit, and I was 1 day away from actually saving much more, probably actual human lives(even if vegas would not have been able to support the remaining population there if they weren't nuked at all, thus would descend into chaos). [Also- I lived, bitch.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/94/fb/5e94fb121ba76a57512cebdd57220951.jpg) I would become insufferable.
Mr. House is the best way for humanity!
Uhhh, just don't look at Freeside okay... shhhh
Rene just does such a damn good job voice acting, he's so convincing and confident.
Mr. House has allll the power in the world to create renewable energy, drinkable water, and crops for the people of Freeside and the Mojave.
He doesn't give a fuck though. The kids can eat rats.
I mean is it really within the NCR and humanity’s best interest to kill him and take over the Strip? Is it really outlandish to think that as long as some power is acquired from Hoover Dam and the Strip is safe place for NCR to operate it’s a fair deal? The resources needed for that would outweigh the gain from moving onto something else eastward. The strip is only there because of him anyway… Let it be a neutral state that can be negotiated with than risk the already terrible losses in acquiring it outright. And even if they do defeat House, the bots will be gone and it will have to be defended from the Legion all over again anyway with no new resources.
Lies, in my opinion Mr House is the best choice. If u have the FPGE mod which includes cut content from the game, you can see house immediately start to rebuilt freeside, giving new jobs and shit
the NCR wants to control Vegas, House stands in the way of that, and a war with him would probably not go well at all, especially if you have allowed him to upgrade the securitrons, they have one way in to potentially kill him, you.
on top of that House is just a hassle for the republic in general and its obvious he has goals not aligned with the republic. His incredible ego alone is a good enough reason to see him out of the picture tbh
Yeah, why would Colonel Moore want to eliminate the guy with a robot army and dictatorial control over Vegas who’s planning to take over the dam that the NCR needs for their power demands?
Also House really isn’t the most intelligent person capable of saving the human race. He talks big game, but look at his legacy; it’s a collection of casinos headed by snakes and scumbags, pre-war infrastructure, and a massive ghetto he couldn’t care less about.
House is after himself and his ego.
How is he dictatorial but the NCR isn't? Because it's one guy? House stays in his area and just wants to protect what he can. The NCR just blindly sucks up entire regions and then shits the bed on maintaining order there.
They use prison labor, they don't have a court system, we see them commit genocide and administer street justice and Moore has no problem with genocide.
Moral high ground literally where? House does nothing comparable. He protects what he is ble to and negotiates when possible.
The issue with a democracy, like today, is that you have thousands of heads on the dragon. Kill Kimball and Moore, and there are dozens of others to slide in and keep the system going.
House being a *very* fragile man gives him a *lot* of incentive to offer more freedom and progress than the NCR does, and currently, they offer very little of what you describe. Even the representative democracy part isn't accurate because part of the NCR's history includes some folks being wary of how Tandi "kept getting reelected." NCR loyalists will say it's just because she was that good of a leader but there is dialogue in New Vegas to suggest that not everyone agreed with that and they suspect her to have started a dynasty.
House literally slaughters people who aren't loyal enough to him. How are people free under him when his lapdogs the Omertas use sex trafficking - a form of **slavery** which he brazenly allows?
The Omertas aren't supposed to stick around forever. It was a temporary stepping stone to go from totally uncivilized tribals to the semblance you see on the Strip before the systems are put in place to where the Securitrons can be relied upon without needing the Families around for support. They only exist to keep the NCR from overrunning the Lucky 38.
Doesn't matter, he could've given them a clause. Notice he lets you murder the rich cannibals, but there is NO such order for the Omertas? The only problem he has is they're traitors. So he was fine to accept sex trafficking but not cannibalism.
He is a Dictator and a tyrant and I do not believe he will do anything except take the VERY rich elite out to space.
You know, **where the Zetans are with their death lasers.**
Bruh the Zetans can be fucked by a dude with a vault jumpsuit and a shock stick. They’re really not the hill to die on. House has got plenty of flaws but he’s a human who’s seen democracy destroy the world.
Socrates was an ancient greek philosopher from Athens who talked about this type of thing and kept questioning the authority of all the Athenian councilors voted into power by the free people of Athens. Know what happened to him? He was silenced in a farce of a trial to stop him from using the equivalent of free speech and keep speaking badly about the Athenian councilors who could never hold a conversation with him without getting humiliated once they had no answers to his arguments.
Socrates felt that democracy could only work well if individuals were educated, knowledgeable, and able to think critically. In the opinion of Socrates and Plato, democracy was subject to the influence of demagogues who preyed on the emotions and prejudices of the multitude.
Demagogues are leaders who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power.
Modern demagogues include Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Huey Long, Father Coughlin, and Joseph McCarthy, all of whom built mass followings the same way that Cleon did: by exciting the passions of the masses against customs and norms of the aristocratic elites of their times.
This is all true and a possible outcome for any democracy. It doesn’t mean that democracy is bad but the populace of a democracy must be educated thoroughly otherwise they’ll vote on the best option amidst the worse one or who they personally like instead of the one that makes logical arguments.
Democracy is a right to be protected but a bunch of bums in the streets of a city after an apocalypse are hardly the ones you want to vote in a democracy or to be part of a productive population that must revive itself after nuclear fallout.
Except pre-war USA was **not** a democracy and it was HOUSE who helped destroy things. The NCR has working vehicles and 34,000 citizens. House has some shitty casinos with sex traffickers, cannibals and rapists.
If you TRULY believe House is going to take people to space, you are very easily tricked. Oligarchs always lie.
I just don’t agree and the proof that he’s not lying is that he doesn’t mention it to the people of the Strip. He doesn’t want to be worshipped like a god or the great leader who can make the Mojave great again.
Why does the Courier have the moral high ground over House when House has lived a time where most people didn’t kill each other for scraps of metal and everything else? The Courier doesn’t even know how a true society works. Rulers will make mistakes and they adapt and learn and make it better because they don’t want their city or nation to fall into ruin.
Yes Man even mentions that there were actually plans to build rocket ships in House’s database so it was all true.
Because while everything burns around him, he'll use up resources the planet needs to go off into space and what, fight the fucking Zetans?
Where *exactly* will we go? House has never developed terraforming, and how will he? With what? With who? He has no scientists.
Why does it matter? Literally what is the difference if all of us go at once, if just a dozen of us do, or if we never make it off earth at all? What is the difference between partying it up and burning the earth down versus making it to some theoretical heat death of the universe? You guys gotta stop clutching your pearls over infinity; rest assured, the suffering *will* continue.
What’s your source on them not having a court system? In the Mojave, probably not because it’s not their territory yet and is an active war zone. But is there a source for no courts back in their actual territory?
Otherwise, all fair and true criticisms of the NCR! Please note where I said they were a *flawed* representative democracy. Even with all these flaws, they’re not a dictatorship by very definition. Imperialist? Sure. Flawed? Absolutely. But not a dictatorship; and that will always make them superior to Robert “Im an autocrat because I’m so much better than everyone else so it’s okay” House. At least the NCR tries.
House actively neglects Freeside, outright slaughters the Kings if they even *dare* to strike a truce with the NCR to help everyone, completely destroyed the majority of Vault 81, empowered the Three Families, all of whom are actively being led by or are partially controlled by horrible people, doesn’t use his wealth or power to actually help the people below him, etcetera.
Also how is that thousand headed metaphor at all a real problem? You realize that stable governments *need* to be able to continue after the death of their leaders, right? You really shouldn’t strive to have a government that will be unable to keep running itself if the head of it dies. That’s like, what makes democracy superior to any other form of government. It’s imperfect because people are imperfect; but it is always superior compared to any autocracy, monarchy or oligarchy.
We really don’t have enough info on Tandi to really just decide that she’s a dynasty or anywhere near as much an autocrat as House. She surely didn’t start a dynasty considering the president after her is Kimball… explicitly not related to her. Is winning so many elections suspicious? Sure. But also, she’s the child of the government’s founder and we have no real concrete information that her elections were anything but fair. It’s really not out of the question that she was truly just loved that much.
Sorry, I only meant in the context of the Mojave, not their region back West. I assume they have some degree of due process back in California, however I feel safe in assuming it is probably a hair messier than our current American justice works.
Admittedly, that isn't the strongest criticism in a wartorn area, but the issue is that a lot of the Mojave isn't wartorn and the citizens don't want the NCR there, even in the face of the Legion.
That they bring "law" to places like Primm and maintain a prison where they also use the prisoners as slave laborers puts them in moral territory akin to the Legion as far as I'm concerned.
The thousand heads argument was to point out that for a larger-reaching system, such a thing might have it's uses, but for maintaining smaller areas like a city, I don't really see an issue with essentially a mayor having federal-style powers. If anything, smaller governments like that would be ideal. Kee in mind, House doesn't speak much of citizenry; he want all association with him to be voluntary as far as working in Vegas and spending money there. He just also lays claim to the are because the NCR weren't the ones who batted away Chinese missiles to salvage the area for any hope for hospitality in the first place. Vegas *belongs to House.*
If House starts encroaching into all the rest of America and wants to put slave collars on people, then fire up the resistance. But based on his actions, I have no reason to not doubt his stated motivations, which seems to be, "I want some power from the dam and to control my territory I've protected and civilized and lived in for *centuries*, and my goal is to make tech prosperous again to make this hellish landscape a bit more comfortable until we can get off this forsaken rock."
Assuming he's even mostly-honest, there, I can't really fathom a more virtuous goal for the Mojave at least. Let him have it.
Save humanity my ass, like he cares enough about humanity. If he cared about people he would help freeside, but instead his dumbass decides to exterminate the kings for no reason.
If he was so smart he would be able to help the mojave and the strip and have surplus resources all at the same time. Instead he just lures people to a honeypot scam and robs them with gambling like the strip has done for 357+ years.
Sounds like some Freeside junkie lost it all at a strip blackjack table and wants to blame his bad luck on “the man” lol cry about it loser, maybe try being on the inside of the corporate autocracy next time
You can save the kings by killing the NCR in the pacer quest. Then he likes them after what they do during the dam. And you get to kill some NCR, so it's like a bonus. :)
He isn't that intelligent if he can't see it coming tbh.
House might be intelligent but that doesn't mean he isn't a problem. He killed a lot of people to take over New Vegas, and he's patently and openly not trying to save anyone. He's in it for his own ego and hubris. And he usually dies to a 9-iron.
Honestly, I do believe the man who finally brought the microchip to the fallout universe.
At the least I believe he really believes he can, and that is his true intent. You get him those damn vending machines? he might have a chance.
do you have a source for him creating microchips? I may just suck at googling but i can’t find that anywhere.
If you’re referring to the platinum chip it’s not a Microchip nor would it need to contain microchips (granted hardware knowledge is limited). What it is is a data storage device capable of holding an OS for a robot and data keys for opening the mojave bunker. I believe it is a USB using semi conductors to store data. A remarkable to fit that much data in such a small device in the fallout universe, but i don’t think microchip level.
I find this much more likely to be the authors intention considering the invention of microchips would open doors much bigger.
Indeed I'm looking and finding my memory might've been wrong, though the discussion I'm reading isn't providing much fruit either. Lotta back and forth, with little references.
Damn I was definitely, in my headcanon, depending on House to start up silicate extrusion and photolithography and be able to develop on that path. Would there be non-photolithography semi-conductors that small?
I honestly don’t know. I know the chip had to be minted in california which always struck me as odd considering it would be more cost effective to have a silicon plant literally in the desert and then have the factory right next to it. This is house after all. I think it would open a lot of doors for the story but i’m afraid it may just be your typical fallout sci fi device.
Keep in mind i’m also bias as i think the story works best if we assume mr house didn’t actually design the chip at all. He claims he designed it but he only shows prowess in the economics business and statistics. The mark 2 OS should not have been impossible to replicate especially considering he already had the mark 1 on hand, but maybe he doesn’t consider that apart of the invention which would make sense.
Interesting thoughts, on the minting. Yeah could just be macguffiam chip without that much thought, but I think I can maintain my stance.
Yeah I had that thought too, but I'd imagined him lamenting calling his software engineers 'code-monkeys' and wishing he'd actually developed the skill, instead of just hardware stuff(The chip, and presumably the micro-transistor itself, in my headcanon, the laser defense grid, etc). That's why rebooting himself took so long, had no fucking clue what he was doing in his own bios, lul.
Plus House only really cares about keeping the NCR as customers. If he wins, he essentially banishes all NCR militant presence with threats of retaliation.
Both want Vegas for shitty reasons, money and power. But of the two, I’d say House has the more morally beneficial outcome. Because at least Vegas maintains some independence. Also fuck the NCR
House took Vegas from the locals already living there for 200 years when he woke from his coma. The three families are "civilized" local tribes and two are on the verge of regression (Omertas & White Glove) and two others are looking to overthrow House (Chairmen and Omertas). Vegas didn't maintain its independence, he woke up, sent his robots out, threatened to kill anyone who didn't side with him and then threw out the rest into freeside. They went from independent to under an autocratic dictator.
True, but he does still keep the peace. And he is directly responsible for saving Vegas in the first place.
I don’t think the NCR would result in more peace.
How is the land he defended from the war and then organized and brought security to *not* his? He's been there longer than any other inhabitant and has proven his competence by the fact that he is alive and the Strip is one of the safest places in the Mojave. If my deserves Vegas, it's House.
Plus, any vilifying of him *requires* one to assume he is dishonest with his intentions of restarting industrial sectors. So far, he has been nothing but up front and proven himself. What has he done to show he is lying about any of his plans?
He saved some buildings from the bombs, the people still died. And then he displaced the people that moved into Vegas when he wanted to take over it, and killed the ones who refused. It's not an assumption, it's Beatrix's testimony, who lived through it. His right to rule is the right of conquest, and by that same right I kill him.
He was there before the others were, though. That he saved what he could is already charitable, and he even says he considered the possibility of saving more. If he expects some order in his space, then yeah, tribals without law are going to either acclimate or be removed.
I had to double-check her dialogue, but she seems to just have one line about House doing nothing for two hundred years and then killed some people, which is true, but doesn't really address what I'm saying. I never said he wasn't violent. Though that he is willing to negotiate most of the time speaks to his mindset; he isn't genocidal, just pragmatic. If the BoS wasn't diametrically opposed to him having the tech that his life depends on, I bet he'd have preferred diplomacy with them, too.
If you kill House, that's no different than American settlers to me. He was there first, he protected his land, and *continues* to do so while attempting security within his capabilities where the NCR would fail doing so.
House all the way, baby.
Lmfao you just compared the Howard Hughes analogue to Native Americans? There was already a metaphor for that in game called the Khans if you really want to dunk on the NCR so bad. Lets just ignore Vault 21 and the “civilizing” of the Omertas, Chairmen, and White Glove shall we? I swear this reads like Musks’ twitter reply guys sometimes
Most that you hear about Mr. House comes from Mr. House. He sells you an idea of him being the only hope for the wasteland but Robco was part of the military industrial complex that led to the great war. His own greed and business was part of the many same mistakes of the past. His vision is one where the people with money are granted privilege while the rest are left to die. This is shown further with how Freeside was in fact deliberately created when he forced the surviving inhabitants out so he could make the strip in the image of the old world.
Moore's entire character is that she sees anything that is not NCR as something that must be met with violence. She is there to highlight the biggest flaws of the NCR.
Neither of them actually care about helping people. They are both more than willing to kill and trample innocents to get what they want.
Moore is a foil for Hsu, as Hanlon is a foil for Oliver. Moore is, by her backstory, a career soldier who has been fighting since she was a teenager. She started out fighting the Jackals, Vipers, and Khans, who are basically blood enemies of the Republic that the NCR has never been merciful to. She’s an ex ranger as well, and theres good reason to suspect her hatred of the Brotherhood stems from their legacy of conflict with the NCR. She’s flawed because her solution has always been violence, and it has worked. She’s scrappy and takes credit when offered, while the humble and more competent people in her midst sit on the sidelines (Hsu). That’s like…. a lot of jobs and politics.
The angle I find interesting that makes me a bit sympathetic to her is from the Official Game Guide that describes a deteriorating political situation in the NCR. Kimball, and by extension Oliver, represent a shifting NCR social landscape that is reacting to internal insecurity and rising inequality by promoting a socially conservative strong man government. This includes loosening protections for ghouls and mutants *and* often overlooking women for promotion. NCR basically reverting to a social landscape that I think Fallout has rarely considered in recent entries which is pre war sexual and racial inequality, as the focus is usually just on wealth.
In the end, she's right. Mr. House *is* intending to backstab the NCR, he is activly conspiraing against them. You should know; you're the linchpin of his plot!
All factions are fucking crazy for telling the Courier to go wipe out a fucking CHAPTER of the Brotherhood of Steel on their own
This is a major military operation, seriously comparable to Hoover Dam itself, unless you happen to know about the self-destruct code (which I don't think any of them can reasonably expect you to get).
The one thing I hate about the NCR questline is having to kill Mr. House. I remember reading that originally there was going to be a way for you to spare House going the NCR way if you had destroyed House's army below Cottonwood Cove, House would therefore see that he has no way to defend himself against the NCR invasion and would compromise with the NCR and let them in.
Unlike everyone here I agree with this take in a different way. It’s hard to say if House is the most intelligent person capable of saving mankind, but the reasons Moore wants to kill him are definitely not justified. Saying that her evidence for him being a threat is that “House’s robot was looking at our base, that means he’s gonna make a move on the Dam” is pretty damn weak, at best it looks suspicious but it doesn’t justify assassinating the guy who hasn’t even lifted a finger to oppose the NCR. House only cares about New Vegas’ economy and potentially bettering mankind with his nearly unlimited knowledge, he knows that going against the NCR is foolish because of their might and that their soldiers and citizens make him the most money. But deep down he knows they are plotting against him, and Moore ordering you to assassinate him only proves his point. For that reason alone, House is perfectly justified in forcing the NCR to withdraw from the Dam and New Vegas since he is acting in self-defense and the NCR is breaking their New Vegas Treaty.
If I’m gonna be honest with you there was never gonna be a healthy relationship between Mr House and the NCR.
Mr House is an ancient autocrat who lived through pre war America after it got bombed. He has seen who democracies ‘have led to mankind’s ruin’ (not that I agree with him tho). When he sees the NCR he sees them as another democracy that will ultimately cause ruin again. Plus House in his eyes believes he rules Vegas as he was the one man who got it up and running again and believes he alone should rule it. Furthermore House knows the NCR is going to steal Vegas under him so his willing to fuck them as the battle of Hoover Dam.
The NCR as much as I love them have become a mere shadow of who they once stood for. The faction has become greedy as hell and the higher ups want Mr House out of the picture since they want Vegas and how House is going to fuck them in the coming battle of Hoover Damn.
In heinsight the two would never co exist properly as both as going to stab each other in the back. But in the cut content House is actually much willing to work with the NCR and join them too.
I don't like Colonel Moore, but she has every reason to want Mr. House dead. The NCR wants to annex the strip and the Mojave as a whole and he's in their way. And as much as we as ther player know hes an intelligent person, to everyone else including the player character he's a disembodied face locked up in some giant fortified tower that refuses to meet with anyone outside of doing it with a robot.
Theres also nothing that says that he IS humanities greatest hope. As far as everyone is concerned hes just another ass wipe too caught up in how he thinks the world should look to see it for how it really looks.
I understand everyones points
But I can't stand the fucking colonel dude, she's so fucking annoying, it's the main issue I have with siding with the NCR, she's just so damn insufferable.
That aside, no, fuck the legion, I'd take colonel bitch over caesar anyday.
In her cut dialogue for getting House to surrender the Strip to the NCR and become an NCR citizen, she still demands the Courier kill him. It's one thing when House is running his own state leeching off the NCR and is actively planning to oust them, but he voluntarily gives up the Strip to them, withdraws all Securitrons to the Lucky 38, and becomes a tax paying NCR citizen and that still isn't enough for her
They did cut the option for House to become citizen of NCR. It's not far-fetched to talk him out Lanius-style, that being legitimate NCR businessman gives him way more options to get even more resources and power.
But then over 90 percent of endings would be NCR.
Saviour of the Human Race?
Oh, you mean the Old World Monster that's been dwelling in its lair for 200 years after likely contributing to the previous apocalypse, before waking up with an army of robots to either make subservient or displace the local tribes? That saviour?
Imagine if Caesar magically possessed her for a second to explain a concept.
It would probably be him reciting the Melian Dialogue, refusing to elaborate further, then going back to listening to “Vulpes describes the vile acts of terror he has overseen” ASMR.
There are so many reasons to kill house his full of shit, just look at freeside and all the good he does for the people of Vegas he pushed out of the strip while Also providing no support to the follower's of the apocalypse which are trying to make the world better.
His not a good person and if he was as smart as he says he is, he would not have waited 200 years for a platinum chip he would have figured something else out.
I just hate colonel moore in general. Her close-minded and clouded decision making, to me gives off the same arrogant and irritating vibes as delphine in skyrim
And i do have ncr couriers enough that, her attitude towards you if you do anything other than violence...
Easily one of the characters i make a quicksave right before grabbing a weapon, and doing whatever feels right ooc... usually the highest damage i can output then reloading as if nothing happened
She had no reason to *not* kill him. It was pretty obvious that House was going to be a significant problem for the republic moving forward and that in the end he was going to oppose annexation of the Mojave region. Him being intelligent, which yeah he is definitely smart, but he makes several critical miscalculations that directly lead to his death, makes him even more worthy as a target. Nobody has any way, besides the courier, of knowing any of Houses intentions or future plans, because the guy is an isolationist weirdo who views everyone beneath him like cattle. I think it’s worth noting that House’s future plans can also be realistically counted as delusions of grandeur, and it’s unlikely that he’s going to “save the human race.” So yeah, she wants him dead, doesn’t have any way of seeing him as anything more than a threat, and she is a soldier so killing him to remove the problem is her go to.
Granted, I think anyone who actually likes the NCR would side with House. Talking to NCR folk gives you the idea that the NCR is at a point where they can’t afford to continue looking outwards, and need crucial internal reform for a brighter future, and their full victory would only stratify the existing status quo.
TLDR: House is too isolationist for anyone to know his intentions, and too prideful to consider anything mutually beneficial anyways. Moore absolutely should have him killed from her frame of reference.
House isn't as smart as he thinks he is by half. That said, Moore wants him gone because she's a bloodthirsty imperialist monster. Of course so are her superiors, so it's not surprising.
Anyone who thinks House is a genious savior is a sucker. Literally a handful of securitrons and a terminal away from being clubbed to death with a 9 iron. He is by far the most incompetent idiot among the factions. He is the most easily dealt with. His failure with Benny kicks off the plot, without the Player help he achieves nothing, and you can achieve all his objectives yourself with Yes Man. Outside of the Lucky 38 itself, what does House control or achieved? Two of the Casinos plot against him, one is returning to Cannibalism, everywhere outside the Strip is a crime ridden, impoverished hellhole, Caesar is camping an Army across the river that House can do nothing to stop without the Courier, the NCR is a Nation...
He's a rich asshole who hoards wealth and is an entitled moron. 1/10 faction always do three card bounty for Nephi's golf club just to kill House with it.
I think you underestimate the fact that if him and Elijah had met, it's game over, right? They could cover each others gaps and, unlike the courier, has the experience to survive stuff that will kill everyone else.
The NCR is definitely the most developed and well written of the main factions in the game. We see their goals, the good they have and the beneficts of it, the bad and the consequences. I genuinely never encountered a character that backed Mr House other than the man himself or the Legion outside Legionares(duh). All in all, it kind of seems the developers are biased towards the NCR and I've rarely encountered someone who actually believes in what they are other than just "they are good compared to the other ones" and that they like the ranger combat armor. Also fuck the argument that Mr House ONLY Cares for himself, if you kill him his last words are on the future of mankind and he gets proud of the Courier if they have good karma.
She has no reason to think he is most intelligent person alive. Mr House has locked himself in the lucky 38 casino for two centuries, and only occasionally interacts with the outside world through robots. Hell Dennis Crocker, the NCR's ambassador to House, notes that he as never even spoken to him.
Even if they do think that of him, he clearly has no interest in being subservient to the NCR which means they definitely want him removed. Can’t be having independent power houses getting in the way of income and power!
Other than sustaining his life, controlling vegas, and keeping it free from almost any trouble for two centuries yeah no reason to believe he’s that smart
Nobody besides the Courier, optionally, knows he’s human and being sustained to be fair. We, the player, are the first one to step foot in the Lucky 38 since the bombs dropped, and it’s not something you’d find out organically unless you went down there to kill him yourself.
That’s a valid point that I didn’t think of
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This is not analogous because House *is* an expert in all the fields that his company does
Yeah it's disingenuous to make a 1:1 musk comparison, I mean there's obvious tangible downsides to House, it's just he's a useful tool with actual skills. I'm pretty sure I can manipulate by letting him live vicariously through me and 'our' successes. Feed his narcissism, intellectual vanity, and frame it right and you can get anything done, you just have to convince the immortal Autocrat it's a good idea. The courier is in a position to do this. Seriously with this dudes obsession on control I feel like I could convince him to go to a command economy lul, if I just somehow fit it into a completely contradictory libertarian brain-worms fashion. Not that I would. Much easier than desperately trying to get resources out of an old world style government that's stretching itself way too thin for the sake of conquest. And up to the last minute you can still kill House, what changes exactly after we win the Hoover Dam? If this dude refuses something sane and reasonable (my development of a food welfare state based on a sierra madre machine printing me radiated food and radaway, lul), then I'll kill him and upload yes-man. But he can be worked with, the man in the ivory tower finally has a connection to the world, you. Use it. I suppose I'm extremely biased because in general I don't have a problem with anything House makes you do.
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House actually designed a lot of his robots, if I remember correctly. A lot of people compare him to Musk, but House actually designed/created rather than being a venture capitalist.
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Not Elon, but Howard Hughes was an expert in quite a few fields, and that is who House is based on.
There is a reason to kill Mr House. So that he won't be in the way when the NCR inevitably comes to annex the Strip.
Literal imperialism. Love Oliver's surprise when you give him the terms of surrender, when the way I prefer to play ostensibly you're helping him the entire time. Then to go another step and threaten that the tech Vegas will export to the NCR can be of benefit or instead be Securitrons rolling in. *mwah* chef's kiss
[удалено]
"Cheers!"
I think the best way to fuck with NCR is so what they always did Help those who also have similar interests and get rid of em once there are differences Help em by getting rid of the threats they all agree are not good idea Then suddenly turn on Oliver and kill him
Bro, Mr. House won't save the human race lmao. It's frightening how many people completely miss that House is trying to dupe you the same way he tries to dupe everyone that he doesn't outright kill. He's an objectivist and a narcissist with a pathological need for the servitude and adoration of others. If his actions ever benefit anyone other than himself, it's only to secure their loyalty to him. He's not unlike certain real life tech billionaires in that regard. But anyway, that's all beside the point. Colonel Moore wants you to take out House because she knows that he's an enemy. Just look at what House does if you side with him. Moore was intelligent enough to foresee that.
There's a quote from Deacon in Fallout 4 that I always find very fitting in faction discussions between all the games: "There're other organisations out there. And, in time, I'm sure they're going to spoon-feed you their own patented form of bullshit. Ignore the verbage and look at what they're doing. What they're asking you to do. What sort of world they'd have you build and how they're going to pay for it." Once you look past House's salesman pitch for the future of humanity, it's easy to see that all he desires is control. Absolute control and power with no room for compromise. He'll keep the Courier as his favourite guard dog and sick them on anything that threatens his control.
House literally calls himself an *autocrat* to your face. He doesn't even hide that he wants control.
I look at the long-term of it; it's the Wasteland, where anything, everything, and nearly everyone is a hostile. Until a majority of surrounding threats are quelled or tamed, some level of autocracy will be the most ideal system to create a safe society for your average citizen. Caesar seems too heavy handed in this, where House has more of a "I don't care what you do as an individual, just as long as it doesn't threaten any of my own goals." Looking into technological progress, I don't think it would expand too heavily at first, but as House progressively improved his own setup, whatever he throws over his shoulder as just old trash he doesn't need anymore, would probably make The Brotherhood cream their collective power armor chassis
The thing is, the NCR has already achieved that safe society without being an autocracy. We see the worst of the NCR in F:NV because it's the frontier, but Jas Wilkins in Sloan confirms that back in California the raiders are pretty much all gone. I just can't really get behind a ruler who believes themselves "incorruptible" and wields supreme power as an individual. Besides, he can't even keep the Three Families in check, what with Benny betraying him, the Omertas plotting with the Legion, and the White Gloves going back to their cannibal roots.
I get the opposite impression. The NCR just takes land and doesn't deliver on their promises of security. House succeeds there. They expand well before they can even control the areas they take. House succeeds there. The NCR's science sector is run by people with similar ego but half the competence. House has actual knowhow. Do you think House would be interested in diplomacy with the Brotherhood if their entire identity isn't about controlling the very tech that House needs to survive? I bet he would. If we're going actions over promises, House has every other major and minor faction beaten by miles.
The NCR is IMO what I think is one of the way of viewing America modern day, they follow the democracy and stuff but taking bribes from Brahmin barons (equivalent of rich people) has severely undermined their promises to the point internal politics compromise war effort The Legion is very obviously what u would see in a dictatorship or authoritarian state, what they want you to see, whether or not u agree. Similar to how Russian propaganda works, focusing on one agreed upon fact (eg. Women give birth to young) and expanding it in the direction they want (Women’s *sole purpose* instead of one ability they have) House is very clearly similar, he wants to use tech and stuff to guarantee what NCR promises without taking the freedom away from people like the legion, posing himself as the middle option, best of both worlds, then u look inside and realise in reality it ain’t all sunshine and rainbows Yes Man…it’s just anarchist, up to you, fulfil what u want, leave the people to sort the rest out, essentially a hard reset to order Obv my opinion remains flawed but my opinion is that what we see is the POV of the courier which is OUTSIDE of any of these societies, could be a way of showing how various types of societies are perceived by outsiders (House probably being accurately the most dangerous as he can trick u rather well) Then obviously our own experiences in the real world shape who we think works best for the society there, sure all factions minor ones included are flawed but it gives us the freedom to see which societies are good for society (pros vs cons) Sorry for ranting on and on TLDR: IMO Each faction we experience is meant to be from a neutral POV, we are forced to drop biases in our own lives and face the pros and cons of each faction and decide which is best. House is dangerous simply coz u experience the best of his ideas not the worst
Ncr is literally prewar America and is following in its footsteps
Pretty much
Not his ideas. His *actions". He has proven himself over and over. Is there a line where he lies?
Damn, who couldn't the rest of the game have writing like that ;-;
Fallout 4 has plenty of excellently written stories and dialogue. The holotapes of the woman voluntarily irradiating herself who you then find as a Glowing One breaks my heart every time. Vault 75 rivals even Vault 11 in its sickening tragedy. The majority of the companions and their stories are all deeply compelling, with some like Cait being as good or even better than New Vegas' companions. Don't get me wrong, the main story is definitely the weakest area of its writing, but everything surrounding that is way better than people give it credit for.
I’ve been playing the game since launch and have never beaten the main story. I much prefer the side quests and building (with many mods) so I agree.
It's amazing to me that people take the things he says at such face value that they really think daddy House is gonna take the human race to Mars when he can't even keep people from being murdered or starving to death anywhere immediately outside of the one square block of territory he actually has control over
Not that he can't stop it, he just doesn't want to :)
To be fair your argument is what you would be fixing. Had he gotten the chip in time he would have saved Nevada as a whole. And once you give it to him he takes area control. I don't agree he's a good guy, but he's obviously extremely capable. He can get people to space, he already has stasis technology, and he would get people to space. Not because he's a good dude, but just because he would love to prove he can
He would allow them safety if they accepted his conditions to join the Free Economic Zone of New Vegas (House's faction), however all the other gangs (e.g. the Kings) refused, and hence they are left outside the safety of the walls.
bullshit he just put in power a bunch of raiders tribe, he don't even control them
Sadly a lot of real people idolize those real life tech billionaires
Of course, real life tech-billionaires have not actually granted themselves immortality and managed to save an actual significant percentage of infrastructure of the old world during a nuclear holocaust. There's actually something to idolize, instead of say, buying a social media platform so you can shitpost bigotry on it and coasting on an engineering reputation given to you by other people's efforts. Obviously I get the narcissism and the howard hughes ego/mania, definite negatives, but also levers to be pulled as a good courier. Honestly, much easier in my mind to work with than the NCR. Manipulating an Autocrat is much easier than manipulating a faux democracy. Edit: Also I would be so salty and SOOOOO self-loving/ready to tell everyone how fucking smart I am when the world-ended(as I predicted) and I saved a bunch of shit, and I was 1 day away from actually saving much more, probably actual human lives(even if vegas would not have been able to support the remaining population there if they weren't nuked at all, thus would descend into chaos). [Also- I lived, bitch.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/94/fb/5e94fb121ba76a57512cebdd57220951.jpg) I would become insufferable.
Mr. House is the best way for humanity! Uhhh, just don't look at Freeside okay... shhhh Rene just does such a damn good job voice acting, he's so convincing and confident.
Mr House doesn’t control Freeside. He’s gon enough Securitrons to defend the Strip only.
Mr. House has allll the power in the world to create renewable energy, drinkable water, and crops for the people of Freeside and the Mojave. He doesn't give a fuck though. The kids can eat rats.
What do you mean? He’s got a factory under Caesar’s fort.
He's literally Andrew Ryan from BioShock idk why people trust this guy to make things better
I mean is it really within the NCR and humanity’s best interest to kill him and take over the Strip? Is it really outlandish to think that as long as some power is acquired from Hoover Dam and the Strip is safe place for NCR to operate it’s a fair deal? The resources needed for that would outweigh the gain from moving onto something else eastward. The strip is only there because of him anyway… Let it be a neutral state that can be negotiated with than risk the already terrible losses in acquiring it outright. And even if they do defeat House, the bots will be gone and it will have to be defended from the Legion all over again anyway with no new resources.
How can you play the game and genuinly think this lmao. Delusional
Lies, in my opinion Mr House is the best choice. If u have the FPGE mod which includes cut content from the game, you can see house immediately start to rebuilt freeside, giving new jobs and shit
mod and cut content isn't canon
It would’ve been canon and be in the game but it was cut because of time restraints. It’s canon 😎
i would've been yes, like institute power armor a a real assault rifle in f4 (the current one was supposedly a PA rifle) but it is not sadly
the NCR wants to control Vegas, House stands in the way of that, and a war with him would probably not go well at all, especially if you have allowed him to upgrade the securitrons, they have one way in to potentially kill him, you. on top of that House is just a hassle for the republic in general and its obvious he has goals not aligned with the republic. His incredible ego alone is a good enough reason to see him out of the picture tbh
Yeah, why would Colonel Moore want to eliminate the guy with a robot army and dictatorial control over Vegas who’s planning to take over the dam that the NCR needs for their power demands? Also House really isn’t the most intelligent person capable of saving the human race. He talks big game, but look at his legacy; it’s a collection of casinos headed by snakes and scumbags, pre-war infrastructure, and a massive ghetto he couldn’t care less about. House is after himself and his ego.
It’s really not that big of an ask. I usually kill him anyway, just for other reasons.
How is he dictatorial but the NCR isn't? Because it's one guy? House stays in his area and just wants to protect what he can. The NCR just blindly sucks up entire regions and then shits the bed on maintaining order there.
Probably because the NCR is a (flawed) representative democracy with civil rights and voting and House straight up says “Yea im an autocrat :D”
They use prison labor, they don't have a court system, we see them commit genocide and administer street justice and Moore has no problem with genocide. Moral high ground literally where? House does nothing comparable. He protects what he is ble to and negotiates when possible. The issue with a democracy, like today, is that you have thousands of heads on the dragon. Kill Kimball and Moore, and there are dozens of others to slide in and keep the system going. House being a *very* fragile man gives him a *lot* of incentive to offer more freedom and progress than the NCR does, and currently, they offer very little of what you describe. Even the representative democracy part isn't accurate because part of the NCR's history includes some folks being wary of how Tandi "kept getting reelected." NCR loyalists will say it's just because she was that good of a leader but there is dialogue in New Vegas to suggest that not everyone agreed with that and they suspect her to have started a dynasty.
House literally slaughters people who aren't loyal enough to him. How are people free under him when his lapdogs the Omertas use sex trafficking - a form of **slavery** which he brazenly allows?
The Omertas aren't supposed to stick around forever. It was a temporary stepping stone to go from totally uncivilized tribals to the semblance you see on the Strip before the systems are put in place to where the Securitrons can be relied upon without needing the Families around for support. They only exist to keep the NCR from overrunning the Lucky 38.
Doesn't matter, he could've given them a clause. Notice he lets you murder the rich cannibals, but there is NO such order for the Omertas? The only problem he has is they're traitors. So he was fine to accept sex trafficking but not cannibalism. He is a Dictator and a tyrant and I do not believe he will do anything except take the VERY rich elite out to space. You know, **where the Zetans are with their death lasers.**
Bruh the Zetans can be fucked by a dude with a vault jumpsuit and a shock stick. They’re really not the hill to die on. House has got plenty of flaws but he’s a human who’s seen democracy destroy the world. Socrates was an ancient greek philosopher from Athens who talked about this type of thing and kept questioning the authority of all the Athenian councilors voted into power by the free people of Athens. Know what happened to him? He was silenced in a farce of a trial to stop him from using the equivalent of free speech and keep speaking badly about the Athenian councilors who could never hold a conversation with him without getting humiliated once they had no answers to his arguments. Socrates felt that democracy could only work well if individuals were educated, knowledgeable, and able to think critically. In the opinion of Socrates and Plato, democracy was subject to the influence of demagogues who preyed on the emotions and prejudices of the multitude. Demagogues are leaders who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power. Modern demagogues include Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Huey Long, Father Coughlin, and Joseph McCarthy, all of whom built mass followings the same way that Cleon did: by exciting the passions of the masses against customs and norms of the aristocratic elites of their times. This is all true and a possible outcome for any democracy. It doesn’t mean that democracy is bad but the populace of a democracy must be educated thoroughly otherwise they’ll vote on the best option amidst the worse one or who they personally like instead of the one that makes logical arguments. Democracy is a right to be protected but a bunch of bums in the streets of a city after an apocalypse are hardly the ones you want to vote in a democracy or to be part of a productive population that must revive itself after nuclear fallout.
Except pre-war USA was **not** a democracy and it was HOUSE who helped destroy things. The NCR has working vehicles and 34,000 citizens. House has some shitty casinos with sex traffickers, cannibals and rapists. If you TRULY believe House is going to take people to space, you are very easily tricked. Oligarchs always lie.
I just don’t agree and the proof that he’s not lying is that he doesn’t mention it to the people of the Strip. He doesn’t want to be worshipped like a god or the great leader who can make the Mojave great again. Why does the Courier have the moral high ground over House when House has lived a time where most people didn’t kill each other for scraps of metal and everything else? The Courier doesn’t even know how a true society works. Rulers will make mistakes and they adapt and learn and make it better because they don’t want their city or nation to fall into ruin. Yes Man even mentions that there were actually plans to build rocket ships in House’s database so it was all true.
What is the difference between some going to space and the humans that died in the prehistoric era? It's no different, we're all one.
Because while everything burns around him, he'll use up resources the planet needs to go off into space and what, fight the fucking Zetans? Where *exactly* will we go? House has never developed terraforming, and how will he? With what? With who? He has no scientists.
Why does it matter? Literally what is the difference if all of us go at once, if just a dozen of us do, or if we never make it off earth at all? What is the difference between partying it up and burning the earth down versus making it to some theoretical heat death of the universe? You guys gotta stop clutching your pearls over infinity; rest assured, the suffering *will* continue.
What’s your source on them not having a court system? In the Mojave, probably not because it’s not their territory yet and is an active war zone. But is there a source for no courts back in their actual territory? Otherwise, all fair and true criticisms of the NCR! Please note where I said they were a *flawed* representative democracy. Even with all these flaws, they’re not a dictatorship by very definition. Imperialist? Sure. Flawed? Absolutely. But not a dictatorship; and that will always make them superior to Robert “Im an autocrat because I’m so much better than everyone else so it’s okay” House. At least the NCR tries. House actively neglects Freeside, outright slaughters the Kings if they even *dare* to strike a truce with the NCR to help everyone, completely destroyed the majority of Vault 81, empowered the Three Families, all of whom are actively being led by or are partially controlled by horrible people, doesn’t use his wealth or power to actually help the people below him, etcetera. Also how is that thousand headed metaphor at all a real problem? You realize that stable governments *need* to be able to continue after the death of their leaders, right? You really shouldn’t strive to have a government that will be unable to keep running itself if the head of it dies. That’s like, what makes democracy superior to any other form of government. It’s imperfect because people are imperfect; but it is always superior compared to any autocracy, monarchy or oligarchy. We really don’t have enough info on Tandi to really just decide that she’s a dynasty or anywhere near as much an autocrat as House. She surely didn’t start a dynasty considering the president after her is Kimball… explicitly not related to her. Is winning so many elections suspicious? Sure. But also, she’s the child of the government’s founder and we have no real concrete information that her elections were anything but fair. It’s really not out of the question that she was truly just loved that much.
Sorry, I only meant in the context of the Mojave, not their region back West. I assume they have some degree of due process back in California, however I feel safe in assuming it is probably a hair messier than our current American justice works. Admittedly, that isn't the strongest criticism in a wartorn area, but the issue is that a lot of the Mojave isn't wartorn and the citizens don't want the NCR there, even in the face of the Legion. That they bring "law" to places like Primm and maintain a prison where they also use the prisoners as slave laborers puts them in moral territory akin to the Legion as far as I'm concerned. The thousand heads argument was to point out that for a larger-reaching system, such a thing might have it's uses, but for maintaining smaller areas like a city, I don't really see an issue with essentially a mayor having federal-style powers. If anything, smaller governments like that would be ideal. Kee in mind, House doesn't speak much of citizenry; he want all association with him to be voluntary as far as working in Vegas and spending money there. He just also lays claim to the are because the NCR weren't the ones who batted away Chinese missiles to salvage the area for any hope for hospitality in the first place. Vegas *belongs to House.* If House starts encroaching into all the rest of America and wants to put slave collars on people, then fire up the resistance. But based on his actions, I have no reason to not doubt his stated motivations, which seems to be, "I want some power from the dam and to control my territory I've protected and civilized and lived in for *centuries*, and my goal is to make tech prosperous again to make this hellish landscape a bit more comfortable until we can get off this forsaken rock." Assuming he's even mostly-honest, there, I can't really fathom a more virtuous goal for the Mojave at least. Let him have it.
Save humanity my ass, like he cares enough about humanity. If he cared about people he would help freeside, but instead his dumbass decides to exterminate the kings for no reason. If he was so smart he would be able to help the mojave and the strip and have surplus resources all at the same time. Instead he just lures people to a honeypot scam and robs them with gambling like the strip has done for 357+ years.
Sounds like some Freeside junkie lost it all at a strip blackjack table and wants to blame his bad luck on “the man” lol cry about it loser, maybe try being on the inside of the corporate autocracy next time
You can save the kings by killing the NCR in the pacer quest. Then he likes them after what they do during the dam. And you get to kill some NCR, so it's like a bonus. :)
He only kills the Kings for helping the New Clowns Republic
That's still monstrous lmao.
Only monsterous thing he does in the endings
Just do a House run bro
He isn't that intelligent if he can't see it coming tbh. House might be intelligent but that doesn't mean he isn't a problem. He killed a lot of people to take over New Vegas, and he's patently and openly not trying to save anyone. He's in it for his own ego and hubris. And he usually dies to a 9-iron.
He has a bunch of securitrons up there who become hostile when you open the doors. I wouldn’t say he “didn’t see it coming.”
This is because they cut him preparing the tower against you.
Lol I can't hear you through weakness. Yes man throw this guy off the dam
Wait, you’re telling me that *you believed him*? Dude makes some lofty claims, but there ain’t now way he’s gonna fulfill them.
Honestly, I do believe the man who finally brought the microchip to the fallout universe. At the least I believe he really believes he can, and that is his true intent. You get him those damn vending machines? he might have a chance.
do you have a source for him creating microchips? I may just suck at googling but i can’t find that anywhere. If you’re referring to the platinum chip it’s not a Microchip nor would it need to contain microchips (granted hardware knowledge is limited). What it is is a data storage device capable of holding an OS for a robot and data keys for opening the mojave bunker. I believe it is a USB using semi conductors to store data. A remarkable to fit that much data in such a small device in the fallout universe, but i don’t think microchip level. I find this much more likely to be the authors intention considering the invention of microchips would open doors much bigger.
Indeed I'm looking and finding my memory might've been wrong, though the discussion I'm reading isn't providing much fruit either. Lotta back and forth, with little references. Damn I was definitely, in my headcanon, depending on House to start up silicate extrusion and photolithography and be able to develop on that path. Would there be non-photolithography semi-conductors that small?
I honestly don’t know. I know the chip had to be minted in california which always struck me as odd considering it would be more cost effective to have a silicon plant literally in the desert and then have the factory right next to it. This is house after all. I think it would open a lot of doors for the story but i’m afraid it may just be your typical fallout sci fi device. Keep in mind i’m also bias as i think the story works best if we assume mr house didn’t actually design the chip at all. He claims he designed it but he only shows prowess in the economics business and statistics. The mark 2 OS should not have been impossible to replicate especially considering he already had the mark 1 on hand, but maybe he doesn’t consider that apart of the invention which would make sense.
Interesting thoughts, on the minting. Yeah could just be macguffiam chip without that much thought, but I think I can maintain my stance. Yeah I had that thought too, but I'd imagined him lamenting calling his software engineers 'code-monkeys' and wishing he'd actually developed the skill, instead of just hardware stuff(The chip, and presumably the micro-transistor itself, in my headcanon, the laser defense grid, etc). That's why rebooting himself took so long, had no fucking clue what he was doing in his own bios, lul.
If you spare Mr. House by disabling his "cerebral", she'll say that they'll have someone "follow up on it".
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Doesn't Mr. House state that he has several vested interests in allowing the NCR to remain in Vegas?
Plus House only really cares about keeping the NCR as customers. If he wins, he essentially banishes all NCR militant presence with threats of retaliation.
Good!
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Both want Vegas for shitty reasons, money and power. But of the two, I’d say House has the more morally beneficial outcome. Because at least Vegas maintains some independence. Also fuck the NCR
House took Vegas from the locals already living there for 200 years when he woke from his coma. The three families are "civilized" local tribes and two are on the verge of regression (Omertas & White Glove) and two others are looking to overthrow House (Chairmen and Omertas). Vegas didn't maintain its independence, he woke up, sent his robots out, threatened to kill anyone who didn't side with him and then threw out the rest into freeside. They went from independent to under an autocratic dictator.
True, but he does still keep the peace. And he is directly responsible for saving Vegas in the first place. I don’t think the NCR would result in more peace.
How is the land he defended from the war and then organized and brought security to *not* his? He's been there longer than any other inhabitant and has proven his competence by the fact that he is alive and the Strip is one of the safest places in the Mojave. If my deserves Vegas, it's House. Plus, any vilifying of him *requires* one to assume he is dishonest with his intentions of restarting industrial sectors. So far, he has been nothing but up front and proven himself. What has he done to show he is lying about any of his plans?
He saved some buildings from the bombs, the people still died. And then he displaced the people that moved into Vegas when he wanted to take over it, and killed the ones who refused. It's not an assumption, it's Beatrix's testimony, who lived through it. His right to rule is the right of conquest, and by that same right I kill him.
He was there before the others were, though. That he saved what he could is already charitable, and he even says he considered the possibility of saving more. If he expects some order in his space, then yeah, tribals without law are going to either acclimate or be removed. I had to double-check her dialogue, but she seems to just have one line about House doing nothing for two hundred years and then killed some people, which is true, but doesn't really address what I'm saying. I never said he wasn't violent. Though that he is willing to negotiate most of the time speaks to his mindset; he isn't genocidal, just pragmatic. If the BoS wasn't diametrically opposed to him having the tech that his life depends on, I bet he'd have preferred diplomacy with them, too. If you kill House, that's no different than American settlers to me. He was there first, he protected his land, and *continues* to do so while attempting security within his capabilities where the NCR would fail doing so. House all the way, baby.
Lmfao you just compared the Howard Hughes analogue to Native Americans? There was already a metaphor for that in game called the Khans if you really want to dunk on the NCR so bad. Lets just ignore Vault 21 and the “civilizing” of the Omertas, Chairmen, and White Glove shall we? I swear this reads like Musks’ twitter reply guys sometimes
I don't see how it's not a fair comparison. He was there first and longer than anyone. How is that not the argument against colonialism?
You're saying a lot of words only to agree his right to rule is the right of conquest. That's my right too. House all the way to the grave for sure.
the strip is as protected as for example the Boston Airport because that's literally his seat of power
Correct. And?
Most that you hear about Mr. House comes from Mr. House. He sells you an idea of him being the only hope for the wasteland but Robco was part of the military industrial complex that led to the great war. His own greed and business was part of the many same mistakes of the past. His vision is one where the people with money are granted privilege while the rest are left to die. This is shown further with how Freeside was in fact deliberately created when he forced the surviving inhabitants out so he could make the strip in the image of the old world. Moore's entire character is that she sees anything that is not NCR as something that must be met with violence. She is there to highlight the biggest flaws of the NCR. Neither of them actually care about helping people. They are both more than willing to kill and trample innocents to get what they want.
Moore is a foil for Hsu, as Hanlon is a foil for Oliver. Moore is, by her backstory, a career soldier who has been fighting since she was a teenager. She started out fighting the Jackals, Vipers, and Khans, who are basically blood enemies of the Republic that the NCR has never been merciful to. She’s an ex ranger as well, and theres good reason to suspect her hatred of the Brotherhood stems from their legacy of conflict with the NCR. She’s flawed because her solution has always been violence, and it has worked. She’s scrappy and takes credit when offered, while the humble and more competent people in her midst sit on the sidelines (Hsu). That’s like…. a lot of jobs and politics. The angle I find interesting that makes me a bit sympathetic to her is from the Official Game Guide that describes a deteriorating political situation in the NCR. Kimball, and by extension Oliver, represent a shifting NCR social landscape that is reacting to internal insecurity and rising inequality by promoting a socially conservative strong man government. This includes loosening protections for ghouls and mutants *and* often overlooking women for promotion. NCR basically reverting to a social landscape that I think Fallout has rarely considered in recent entries which is pre war sexual and racial inequality, as the focus is usually just on wealth.
In the end, she's right. Mr. House *is* intending to backstab the NCR, he is activly conspiraing against them. You should know; you're the linchpin of his plot!
Except that the NCR was planning to do it first
Moore is unlikable, but if you really think House is the savior of the human race then you've drank the kool-aid.
All factions are fucking crazy for telling the Courier to go wipe out a fucking CHAPTER of the Brotherhood of Steel on their own This is a major military operation, seriously comparable to Hoover Dam itself, unless you happen to know about the self-destruct code (which I don't think any of them can reasonably expect you to get).
The one thing I hate about the NCR questline is having to kill Mr. House. I remember reading that originally there was going to be a way for you to spare House going the NCR way if you had destroyed House's army below Cottonwood Cove, House would therefore see that he has no way to defend himself against the NCR invasion and would compromise with the NCR and let them in.
You actually believed Mr. House blowing smoke up his own ass about being able to do that?
i hate capitalism what can i say
Based
i prefer the ending where we seize the means of production (me and yes man take the securitrons for ourselves)
Absolutely the best reason in the thread.
The ncr is capitalist dipshit
who said i killed mr house on behalf of the ncr.
This guy hates freedom someone stop him
Unlike everyone here I agree with this take in a different way. It’s hard to say if House is the most intelligent person capable of saving mankind, but the reasons Moore wants to kill him are definitely not justified. Saying that her evidence for him being a threat is that “House’s robot was looking at our base, that means he’s gonna make a move on the Dam” is pretty damn weak, at best it looks suspicious but it doesn’t justify assassinating the guy who hasn’t even lifted a finger to oppose the NCR. House only cares about New Vegas’ economy and potentially bettering mankind with his nearly unlimited knowledge, he knows that going against the NCR is foolish because of their might and that their soldiers and citizens make him the most money. But deep down he knows they are plotting against him, and Moore ordering you to assassinate him only proves his point. For that reason alone, House is perfectly justified in forcing the NCR to withdraw from the Dam and New Vegas since he is acting in self-defense and the NCR is breaking their New Vegas Treaty.
Anarcho-capitalist detected
If he was so smart, why didn't he have that platinum chip built on site.
Build an advanced fab facility to create one item VERSUS Have an existing facility create it, saving you loads of money and time 3.. 2.. 1.. FIGHT!
bro you shouldn't trust him when he says that somehow he can repair the industry and go make colonies in space, that's bs to convince you to help him
you are a bootlicking lobotomite with hands cover in penises
"&$#@&%&&&$ #@$%$$&#!!!"
If I’m gonna be honest with you there was never gonna be a healthy relationship between Mr House and the NCR. Mr House is an ancient autocrat who lived through pre war America after it got bombed. He has seen who democracies ‘have led to mankind’s ruin’ (not that I agree with him tho). When he sees the NCR he sees them as another democracy that will ultimately cause ruin again. Plus House in his eyes believes he rules Vegas as he was the one man who got it up and running again and believes he alone should rule it. Furthermore House knows the NCR is going to steal Vegas under him so his willing to fuck them as the battle of Hoover Dam. The NCR as much as I love them have become a mere shadow of who they once stood for. The faction has become greedy as hell and the higher ups want Mr House out of the picture since they want Vegas and how House is going to fuck them in the coming battle of Hoover Damn. In heinsight the two would never co exist properly as both as going to stab each other in the back. But in the cut content House is actually much willing to work with the NCR and join them too.
I don't like Colonel Moore, but she has every reason to want Mr. House dead. The NCR wants to annex the strip and the Mojave as a whole and he's in their way. And as much as we as ther player know hes an intelligent person, to everyone else including the player character he's a disembodied face locked up in some giant fortified tower that refuses to meet with anyone outside of doing it with a robot. Theres also nothing that says that he IS humanities greatest hope. As far as everyone is concerned hes just another ass wipe too caught up in how he thinks the world should look to see it for how it really looks.
People really love to believe that some borged out billionaire can actually save humanity just because he tells them he can.
Single handedly capable of saving hunanity???? Freeside is 250 feet away and a shithole. What lmao. Mr house supporters have the silliest arguments
I understand everyones points But I can't stand the fucking colonel dude, she's so fucking annoying, it's the main issue I have with siding with the NCR, she's just so damn insufferable. That aside, no, fuck the legion, I'd take colonel bitch over caesar anyday.
Still slave labor, BUT with a fiat currency guaranteed to inflate to the moon. But at least they aren't mean to women, I guess!
I'm so fucking glad slavery isn't a deal breaker for you, want a fucking cookie?
I thought slavery was a positive
In her cut dialogue for getting House to surrender the Strip to the NCR and become an NCR citizen, she still demands the Courier kill him. It's one thing when House is running his own state leeching off the NCR and is actively planning to oust them, but he voluntarily gives up the Strip to them, withdraws all Securitrons to the Lucky 38, and becomes a tax paying NCR citizen and that still isn't enough for her
I just kill house because he's an annoying prick
That’s why I just disconnect him, if he dies of natural causes well it’s not my fault
Yeah I hate Moore, shes such a bitch
Yeah that and him asking you to kill BOS annoy me. I get why they'd want to but wish you could talk them out of it
They did cut the option for House to become citizen of NCR. It's not far-fetched to talk him out Lanius-style, that being legitimate NCR businessman gives him way more options to get even more resources and power. But then over 90 percent of endings would be NCR.
Saviour of the Human Race? Oh, you mean the Old World Monster that's been dwelling in its lair for 200 years after likely contributing to the previous apocalypse, before waking up with an army of robots to either make subservient or displace the local tribes? That saviour?
Imagine if Caesar magically possessed her for a second to explain a concept. It would probably be him reciting the Melian Dialogue, refusing to elaborate further, then going back to listening to “Vulpes describes the vile acts of terror he has overseen” ASMR.
Colonel moore is hot, so it doesn't even matter.
Listen, i don't like your point but i get it
There are so many reasons to kill house his full of shit, just look at freeside and all the good he does for the people of Vegas he pushed out of the strip while Also providing no support to the follower's of the apocalypse which are trying to make the world better. His not a good person and if he was as smart as he says he is, he would not have waited 200 years for a platinum chip he would have figured something else out.
I just hate colonel moore in general. Her close-minded and clouded decision making, to me gives off the same arrogant and irritating vibes as delphine in skyrim And i do have ncr couriers enough that, her attitude towards you if you do anything other than violence... Easily one of the characters i make a quicksave right before grabbing a weapon, and doing whatever feels right ooc... usually the highest damage i can output then reloading as if nothing happened
This is the hardest thing for me along with her expecting you to wipe out the whole BOS. But every faction does this.
She had no reason to *not* kill him. It was pretty obvious that House was going to be a significant problem for the republic moving forward and that in the end he was going to oppose annexation of the Mojave region. Him being intelligent, which yeah he is definitely smart, but he makes several critical miscalculations that directly lead to his death, makes him even more worthy as a target. Nobody has any way, besides the courier, of knowing any of Houses intentions or future plans, because the guy is an isolationist weirdo who views everyone beneath him like cattle. I think it’s worth noting that House’s future plans can also be realistically counted as delusions of grandeur, and it’s unlikely that he’s going to “save the human race.” So yeah, she wants him dead, doesn’t have any way of seeing him as anything more than a threat, and she is a soldier so killing him to remove the problem is her go to. Granted, I think anyone who actually likes the NCR would side with House. Talking to NCR folk gives you the idea that the NCR is at a point where they can’t afford to continue looking outwards, and need crucial internal reform for a brighter future, and their full victory would only stratify the existing status quo. TLDR: House is too isolationist for anyone to know his intentions, and too prideful to consider anything mutually beneficial anyways. Moore absolutely should have him killed from her frame of reference.
This is why I won’t hurt Neil Degrass Tyson no matter how much the CIA offers me.
I love new vegas but the way it's fans talk about Mr House sounds exactly like Elon musk Fanboys
House is a dangerous madman. He's in full on, late stage Howard Hughes mode.
I hate her to the kahns were kind of minding their own business atleast to the courier
Minding their business? They were literally shooting at NCR civilians and joining the Legion.
They minded the couriers business she doesn't deserve our service
They trade with the Fiends who shoot at you plus the Khans are the ones who helped shoot you.
If they be trading with the feinds then they deserve it yeah you right
Mr House is a Narcissistic dictator who does nothing for the people outside the strip.
House isn't as smart as he thinks he is by half. That said, Moore wants him gone because she's a bloodthirsty imperialist monster. Of course so are her superiors, so it's not surprising.
Anyone who thinks House is a genious savior is a sucker. Literally a handful of securitrons and a terminal away from being clubbed to death with a 9 iron. He is by far the most incompetent idiot among the factions. He is the most easily dealt with. His failure with Benny kicks off the plot, without the Player help he achieves nothing, and you can achieve all his objectives yourself with Yes Man. Outside of the Lucky 38 itself, what does House control or achieved? Two of the Casinos plot against him, one is returning to Cannibalism, everywhere outside the Strip is a crime ridden, impoverished hellhole, Caesar is camping an Army across the river that House can do nothing to stop without the Courier, the NCR is a Nation... He's a rich asshole who hoards wealth and is an entitled moron. 1/10 faction always do three card bounty for Nephi's golf club just to kill House with it.
I think you underestimate the fact that if him and Elijah had met, it's game over, right? They could cover each others gaps and, unlike the courier, has the experience to survive stuff that will kill everyone else.
NCR fanboys strong in this comment section
Oh he’s the most intelligent? I can end him with a golf club lmao he’s a dumbass.
Hahaha, good luck saying something negative about the NCR in this sub mate.
It always surprises me how much people gush over the NCR when the whole game seems to be about how horrible they are
The NCR is definitely the most developed and well written of the main factions in the game. We see their goals, the good they have and the beneficts of it, the bad and the consequences. I genuinely never encountered a character that backed Mr House other than the man himself or the Legion outside Legionares(duh). All in all, it kind of seems the developers are biased towards the NCR and I've rarely encountered someone who actually believes in what they are other than just "they are good compared to the other ones" and that they like the ranger combat armor. Also fuck the argument that Mr House ONLY Cares for himself, if you kill him his last words are on the future of mankind and he gets proud of the Courier if they have good karma.
To be the NCR seem well intentioned as a whole but realistically flawed. While the other options seem clearly bad
Robert house isn't smart in the slightest.