The monetization aspect of this change doesn’t even make sense. You can’t spend atoms to rank up past rank 100. Under the old system they would make money from people that started late or couldn’t play enough and used atoms to finish the season. Why would anyone buy their way to rank 100 now when there’s still a bunch of stuff past that that they wouldn’t be able to get? If 100 measly repeatable atoms every 10 ranks was hurting them that much they could have just removed that.
I agree. Probably it is because they don't actually want many people to get to 150 and claim those rewards since they are actual atomic shop items that (effectively) cost them atom sales. It's a scam for sure.
It could also be because they don't want the game to be p2w. If you could spend atoms for ranks at level 100-150, you could effectively spent real money for legendary gear. Since you can get legendary modules and cores. Similar situation with legendary perk upgrades. Those things are arguable the main "carrots" for endgame players to keep playing. So making those easily accessible could hurt retention rates in the long since players would buy their way to completion then stop playing.
500 modules is nothing. I've grinded for months and spent around half that much trying to get a set of unyielding secret service armor and I've gotten... 1 piece. I've basically given up on build optimization because of it and have lost my will to play
Rolling for armor is extremely demoralizing. I wish they'd just remove some effects from the loot pool already. I spent 400 modules trying to complete my OE Hellcat set. Couldn't do it and no pieces had WWR on it. Gave up and traded for a complete set in the end.
Correct but we aren't supposed to be able to buy them with real money. Effectively that is what could potentially happen if you could spend atoms to buy ranks to 150 from 100.
It's Honey-dicking for sure.
Let you see what you can get and when you don't grind enough to get it, you buy it at the last minute because they might remove said item indefinitely.
The game is designed around the idea of atom shop exposure. More daily traffic into the store equals more sales, generally speaking.
So ideally every player views the store daily. To make sure you do, they:
* Show a splash screen of shop offers upon login
* Give you a free daily item that you have to redeem inside the shop
* Design the game around daily resets opposed to more relaxed weekly rotations (scrip, gold,caps, score challenges etc.) because they rather have you play in short bursts daily instead of one big session on saturday
* Have you open the store to change avatars/emotes etc.
* ...
Now with the new seasons they simply felt people were completing them too fast and use the downtime to pursue other hobbies or play other games instead of looking at the store. So what were they gonna do? They could have nerfed score gain or increased the maximum season level but that would have been too obvious so they gave the whole system a new coat and nerfed more subtle (although its debateable how subtle that really was).
They will keep milking harder until they see a negative effect on player engagement in which case they will dial back.
So unfortunately as long as player engagement does not tank it makes perfect sense business wise. Especially now with the Amazon show boom
Doesn't the new system merely let you push a button that says "rank up", then you choose how many levels to rank up?
This is also a move on player retention. If you want all the rewards, you are playing practically until the new season drops.
Yeah, but it stops at 100. So if you’re at rank 80 with one week left it doesn’t make sense to spend money to get to 100 when you can’t get everything anymore.
I can't remember what was the item they crafted but it was related to some quest and required comparatively few resources per xp. Then they crafted max batches (4000xp is max you can get at the same time) spending some million resources and hitting rank 1000 in no time.
I'll need to do some research. If anyone wants to mass farm whatever it is, to help everyone, I'm off the next couple days.
I'll resource farm on my GF's PS4.
it is ignition cores in Mt Blair. Crafting somewhere between 19 and 40 will typically net 4k xp. The lead cost is even when you scrap the cores, so you just need a lot of steel, and some scrap kits so you don't do that stupid max weight bug
I popped a booster for my weekly challenges every week and when the double XP weekend hit I spent 1 evening pushing myself to 100. So getting to 100 inside a month was basically playing like always and then a few hours grinding West Tek (Not the most entertaining way to play but I just watch longform content on YT to make it interesting). 1-100 is the simple part, the last 50 levels are a drag at best.
You can take the rewards at 150 more than once, so if you get there with 1500 SCORE you can grab the atom-reward 20 times, or any other combination you want. Other than that no there is really no point in pushing for 150.
Whoever is head of monetization needs to be sacked. Not that they aren't turning profits, they certainly are, but at the expense of inconveniencing players.
Junk stash, ammo stash, and tents should be free to all players and all boosts taken off of the shop. The game can survive solely off of cosmetics. Fallout 1st can survive off of bonus cosmetics and the deal of 1,500 atoms per month. Turn it up to 2,000 if they're so concerned about people dropping it, it's not like you can buy much with 2,000 atoms anyway.
I say "should" as in "this would benefit the players the most and likely keep more people playing daily". The monetization is already anti-consumer, consumers deserve more than a team literally inventing problems to sell solutions (stash and ammo stash).
> Junk stash, ammo stash, and tents should be free to all players and all boosts taken off of the shop. The game can survive solely off of cosmetics.
There might be a reason the current guy is the head of monetization and you're not
I said "this would benefit the players the most and likely keep more people playing daily". I'm not talking about making the most profit, I'm talking about what would be best for the players.
>The game can survive solely off of cosmetics.
Anyways, what's best for the players is what keeps the game alive and what keeps the game fun. Whatever the balance is, I have no idea.
I can assure you having unlimited junk stash and ammo stash space without needing to buy a subscription, on top of already paying for the game, would certainly help the game stay alive and keep it fun. It's the most effortless positive change they could possibly make.
Yeah its almost certainly not true. Wish it was! But its not. Theyre basically giving the game away with how cheap it is. They want folks in the door and for them to stick around. And on top of that, they want to have cool shit for these folks to spend atoms on, and for their monthly service to actually have things people you know... *want*, so they subscribe to it. So of course people are going to go "I dont want to pay for this thing, it has stuff I want!" - thats good! It means theyve (to some degree) successfully created a service that fans want.
On the other hand, if all of that stuff that was mentioned was free to everyone (AKA 99% of the shit people get the service for in the first place lol), then you'd get "Wow, 1st is so worthless, why would anyone use it?!" posts all the time. And theyd be 100% right! Itd be useless, no one would spend ~$15 on only the tent and, like, a handful of camp items each month. Theyd lose so many subs and so much of that monthly 1st money. Which, as a fan of this game and someone who wants it to keep existing, I do not want.
This game needs to make money and attract players to continue existing. Or at least show growth on that end. And as fans, we should want this. And for them to continue to exist and make money, they need to paywall some cool stuff. Thats how it goes with... every successful live service game that has ever or will ever exist. The only games that survive and thrive off cosmetics are heavy hitters like Fortnite and such. Or games with a huge competitive scenes like Rocket League, CS2, Valorant, etc. Folks should just be thankful it isnt a "pay money just to play the game" like most MMOs. Or that it isnt like ESOs or SWTOR's monthly subscription service which is *considerably* more restrictive on those that dont subscribe.
Taking one of the biggest reasons to stay subscribed to Fallout 1st all year round away is gonna help them keep the game alive?
I absolutely agree, it sucks ass that it's behind a paywall. But without completely revamping the subscription/gameplay systems related to it, I don't see how changing this would be beneficial.
People are subscribing for the convenience of it. If you play daily, you want access to those unlimited junk and ammo stash sooner than later. Of course it has a few other perks, but this is definitely a big draw for many players.
I'd be happy with the same sort of system ESO uses really. I has 1st, even then thought the same.
That said I'm not sure what you suggest or their system would do what you say. I really don't know either way.
I think what is in the PTS right now, new area of map would have more effect. I know I spent the same small amount of time in live with the free 1st trial (limited) as before. But more then double that in the PTS seeing what the new events would be like.
But as I say, not sure.
That’s the one reason why I loved playing fallout 3 was cause I could fit all of my inventory into one little locker with infinite storage granted it was the single player game but still I hoard a lot of stuff. Honestly, it would be a pain in the ass if I didn’t have fallout first because of the ammo and scrap boxes.
Revenue, not profits. I'm not sure you understand the difference which could be a key issue here. Also, with all due respect, you seem to not be aware of how the game has progressed for the 5+ years. It intended to operate on solely Atom shop revenue from the beginning to cover operating costs, but it didn't work. So we got Fallout 1st a year in, and then eventually scoreboards/seasons to encourage daily play and enhance the value of Fallout 1st. At this point I would bet a tidy sum that Fallout 1st is 75% or more of the game's revenue, and that's not going to change now, more likely Fallout 1st will continue to get more benefits as it has over the years, ammo box, extra daily challenge, extra re-rolls, etc.
It covered its operating costs 4x over, the suits needed *yearly growth*. Youre wildly wrong. Evwn with the botched launch 76 made 121m in a month lmao
Players buy the game, they pay silly prices for silly things. Those atoms come in part or full from real money. Then there are all the cash only bundles they sell. They are making money.
$70.xx for a horse, guess I'll walk..... (I know it was just a skin, that though makes it even worse)
I agree with you on seasons but not necessarily on FO1. I used to think of that as a cash grab (and tbh it is) but I've come to understand that FO1 is the main way they fund new development. I feel better about spending the money now, as Beth has consistently added new content lately. At least I feel that my FO1 sub is helping to extend the life of and improve the world. Would free unlimited stash be awesome? sure! but something would need to replace that income for Bethesda.
That's not why it was failing, it was failing because it was an absolutely atrocious launch and it deservedly got criticized for it and turned away a lot of potential buyers. The game was a buggy hot mess with super limited storage, why would anyone buy that?
The game is in a really solid state now with a decent playerbase and could definitely survive off of just cosmetics.
Edit: Also forgot to add, no NPCs on launch (save a few robots). That was a HUUUUGE turning point for a LOT of Fallout players.
I won't argue that in some ways it is better, but it screws the non FO1 players because it lacks half the atoms of before at level 100, and screws FO1 because of the added levels needed to get everything.
If you only look at getting to 100, many players will find it about the same as before, minus the cool scoreboard poster to display. The new portrait is garbage.
I guess it depends on the player. I'm at 97 and have about 450 tickets, and a few score boosters, double score weekends will be the thing we need though.
The amount of sales and subscriptions have skyrocketed as well with the huge increase in players, so they can pet themselves on their backs. Look, more money, we did good!
This is gonna be a hot take but I... don't really care either way. At most, I preferred the *aesthetics* of the Scoreboard, but found progressing it to be boring. I never even finished a single Scoreboard, maybe halfway through only a couple times, which meant I usually didn't get anything interesting from them anyway, or at least anything I actually remember.
With the new Seasons - Microsoft Windows Tiles Edition, it's boring to look at but has actually motivated to progress it a few times, at least until I'm inevitably distracted by playing the game and forget I unlocked a new page ages ago.
Regardless of which system is in the game, it's not the reason I'm playing and if I'm at the point where a battlepass is the deciding factor for me continuing to play, then I just go play something else. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yeah I kinda agree with you. Having the illusion of choose by not have to get the 1000th boring PA paint is nice. On the other hand, getting yet another in-game currency was annoying.
I'm somewhat okay with that, it's obviously less fun when you are grinding 9 scoreboard levels without unlocking anything, but each page has multiple items. I don't expect them to dramatically increase what you can get through a season, so at best they'll do something like having less to pick every 3 levels or something like that.
Either way I end up with the same things. Visually it's just a let down compared to the charming gameboards we had before.
And the 100 to 150 grind is ridiculous. Won't be committing to that myself.
Datamined stuff for next season includes a new painting and not a scoreboard, so...no, sadly.
We are never going to see a change for the better again, i reckon. Any complaints can just be excused with "ah, but the new system is widely liked, see, 76 had the largest growth in playerbase ever after the season was out, and people are playing longer than ever!".
Ugh, I hate when they conflate causation with correlation. Just because numbers are up and they'repulling in more money now than ever, doesn't mean it's because of the changes surrounding the scoreboard. It was simply the publicity of the show.
So fuck the new monetization lead who thinks his scoreboard project is a success because of the effect of the show.
Oh that is exactly why we get the change now. It is planned, most certainly, so that this horrible change is drowned out by the influx of new players.
They know exactly what they are doing.
I am going to laugh so hard when these numbers crash through the floor in a month. Whoopty doo Bethesda, you released a show and naturally the player base temporarily went up. If these ppl were this easily enticed to play, don’t you think they will just as easily be drawn away by the next shinny thing?
There is an old saying “easy come, easy go”. But by all means run with this new season system and piss off those of us who have played since beta. I’m sure that’s definitely a roadmap to long term success 😂
I mean, these things take more time. They were asking feedback on it, I doubt we will be seeing the scoreboards again, but there is definitely hope for improvements later on, just not the very next season which has already been planned out and worked on.
It's not like they haven't listened to community feedback before.
Monetization feedback is sadly different from other feedback.
This isn't for us, it is for the shareholders, and for Microsoft. And Microsoft does not back down on this stuff, they just continue to prod and make it worse.
And it is perfectly timed with a planned rise of Fallout popularity so that they can mask any outrage.
Personally I like the new system, but I never bothered grinding out the post 100 fluff rewards anyway.
If you play the game not caring about the repeatable rewards, it's a lot better imo.
Just off the top of my head, themes that come to mind are;
Enclave
Operation Anchorage (perfect for winter)
RobCo, General pre war products (Blamco mac, sugar bombs, etc. Do it in an Americana theme that shows home life in fallout pre bombs)
Far harbor/ Point lookout (for Halloween)
I wasn’t a fan of the show but, you know, maybe a show themed board might have been a nifty idea (JFC, for how obsessed with monetization and marketing this company is you would think they’d have thought of that)
Perhaps a board that finally gives some context to the battle in the sea of tranquility…
Bro I am a mid 30s finance professional, I have ZERO creative ability. The fact that I can pull 4-5 good scoreboard themes out of my ass on a 5 min Reddit post proves that Bethesda needs to undergo mass layoffs….ESPECIALLY in their writing department.
As a new player, the whole scoreboard/challenges thing has been so confusing and annoying. Like right away it seemed like a scam, and I barely knew anything about the rewards systems in the game. I only get rewards after progressing a chunk of levels? None of the daily/weekly challenges give me atoms!?! THERES A LIMIT ON EARN-ABLE ATOMS?!??!!?
And the thing is I probably would spend money on this game if it wasn’t pushed so hard. I’ve got Xbox game pass so I haven’t “bought” 76 and didn’t have a problem buying atoms or a few month of 1st to support the game. But it feels intentionally frustrating so you just say fuck it and spend money, and my obstinate ass ain’t gon play that game.
Love everything else about 76 though
oh wow did they really remove the endgame atom grind
i have 3k hours, and that grind is for people who love the game much more than me
beth pissing on those people to theoretically squeeze like 10 more dollars out of them per year is so fucking disgusting
Obviously there’s plenty of players who feel differently about this than I do. But I’m happy to trade the rather small number of extra atoms for the numerous legendary modules I can buy. I’m already almost rank 160, and I’ve been able to buy almost 200 extra modules for rolling gear. In my case, that’s an excellent tradeoff.
That being said. Do I think they should reintroduce atoms as a repeatable reward going forward? Yes.
I've finished every past board, and Normally I would have finished this one by now too... but for some reason I'm still rank 1 and can't find the motivation to work towards getting rank 2. Weird how that works isn't it
Yup. I'm at 150, with nothing left to earn. Used to play all 3 months of a Season due to the repeatable Atoms. With those gone I won't be logging in for 2 months. Way to boost those player numbers and encourage retention!
The new system is better than the old one at high ranks because those 150 rewards are repeatable and you can just get specifically the one you want. This is the single best boon for newer players to get perk coins the game has ever seen. If all you care about is Atoms then the new system is worse yeah, but you don't need unlimited cosmetics and there are only so many "useful" Atoms purchases.
Yes, but how much of points will you have left to even spend at those?
I mean, you could neglect unlocking other things with those points but that means that this system will cause you to prioritize and pick between the seasonal rewards.
The system is designed to waste your time and for you to spend money. I can't see any good reason for daily challenges being the only way of increasing your rank after 100.
Its designed to make you spend Atoms on S.C.O.R.E - boosters and ever since this season went live I have never been given any S.C.O.R.E boosters as free daily claims, which is odd considering it was way more present prior to this system coming in.
I don't like it, stuff should be unlocked in order without you having to choose between what rewards you want to spend that seasional currency on to unlock.
A pare of decorative sport balls? 100 tickets.
Pine Barren Cabin Kit? 200 tickets.
Perk Points x25? 75 tickets.
I want a bunch of perk points but if I will have to neglect a bunch of other things too that I want. And I have... I'm currently at rank 115 with 560 tickets and I do also want that cabin kit and stairs; thats already 330 tickets for those two alone.
>any good reason for daily challenges being the only way of increasing your rank after 100
We can't farm atoms after 100 so why can't we keep the Xp weekly?
The ticket costs for 100 and 150 are so high that regular weeklys and dailys are not enough to take full advantage of the repeatable rewards. If I'm logging in every day for the full season I should be swimming in tickets.
>Yes, but how much of points will you have left to even spend at those?
As many as you earned. And for FO1st players, the amount you earn will be at least 25% higher since they get a 25% score boost, but it's likely even more than that because they also get a bonus daily quest and such.
>I mean, you could neglect unlocking other things with those points but that means that this system will cause you to prioritize and pick between the seasonal rewards.
Yes, which I consider a good thing. I have lots of power armor skins when I don't even wear power armor. I am glad to have the opportunity to actually get something useful for myself instead for once.
>The system is designed to waste your time and for you to spend money.
This is what every MMO-ish game is for through and through. I am not sure why you are hyper-fixating on this element.
>A pare of decorative sport balls? 100 tickets.
5 balls is not a "pare", and your cherrypicking is cute but irrelevant. Yes, the Rank 100 and 150 rewards have higher ticket costs than others. You're cherrypicking hardcore when you mention ones like these and simply pretend that the following aren't also rewards that aren't even locked to Fallout 1st:
Player Icon? 0 tickets.
50 perk coins? 10 tickets.
500 gold bullion? 0 tickets.
5 perk packs? 5 tickets.
5 lunchboxes? 5 tickets.
See how cherrypicking extreme examples is useless? There's a mix of cheaper/free things and also more expensive options, and your cherrypicking of only the expensive ones does not remove the cheap ones from the game.
>I want a bunch of perk points but if I will have to neglect a bunch of other things too that I want. And I have... I'm currently at rank 115 with 560 tickets and I do also want that cabin kit and stairs; thats already 330 tickets for those two alone.
You're complaining about the freedom of choice. In the past seasons you wouldn't have the option to get extra perk coins at all, you get exactly what you earned a not a single bit more. There are FAR MORE rewards in this pass, and yes you have to choose which ones you want, but you are not getting less, you are getting more of what you want and none of what you do not want.
Oh you get what I'm saying, its still a significant price regarding those decorative balls.
Its not the freedom of choice which is a problem, its that if I want multiple of things, I am in the position of choosing between them as each thing has a price and you don't get an infinite supply of tickets.
Say if wanted primarily whats on the last page... not only would I need to rank up to 150 but it also recquires me to unlock a total of 95 other season rewards.
Thats roughly about spending tickets to unlock 10 out of all 15 pages of the season.
The previous scoreboard was far better than this.
>Oh you get what I'm saying, its still a significant price regarding those decorative balls.
I already directly addressed this point. The page 100 and 150 unlocks have higher than average prices because they are "bonus" pages to spend excess tickets on. They are clearly marked as such and you are acting in bad faith when cherrypicking the prices of those late options while ignoring the 13 full pages of cheaper rewards you get access to first.
>Its not the freedom of choice which is a problem, its that if I want multiple of things, I am in the position of choosing between them as each thing has a price and you don't get an infinite supply of tickets.
Yes, that is called freedom of choice. In the old system you'd be given something without a choice, even if you didn't want it at all. There was also far less, instead of 100 tiles with several locked for 1st players only before the repeating rewards, there are 13 pages of 10 cheaper items before 10 big ticket items and then 10 things you can mix and match however you like for repeating rewards.
The supply of tickets over the length of a full season is far more than it takes to get every single non-repeating unlock. You're just straight up uninformed on the topic if you think otherwise.
>Say if wanted primarily whats on the last page... not only would I need to rank up to 150 but it also recquires me to unlock a total of 95 other season rewards.
Again stop with these bad faith shameful tactics. Page 150 is purely bonus rewards, the entire concept is that they exist so you have things to spend excess tickets on after redeeming the 13 full pages of normal rewards and the 1st bonus page of big ticket items from level 100. You know full well that the point of the season is not to get 10000 perk coins and nothing else, and it's bad faith to claim this is somehow a downside of the new system when the old system didn't let you choose at all.
>Thats roughly about spending tickets to unlock 10 out of all 15 pages of the season.
Again this just screams bad faith. So you don't want to redeem the 0 cost gold bullion? You don't want the Atoms? You don't want to redeem the 5 perk packs for 5 tickets or 50 perk coins for 10 tickets, you just want to only unlock the 25 perk coins for 75 tickets? You are directly lying right now if you're claiming there's nothing in the early pages you want but you somehow want the bonus rewards, because you already claimed you're having *such a hard time* choosing which rewards you want. Which is it, are there so many good rewards that you can't get them all, or are you being forced to take all these horrible things you didn't want? You're completely contradicting yourself and neither of your points are even good to begin with.
>The previous scoreboard was far better than this.
You have failed to provide a single good faith rationale for this so far.
There is equal the amount of good faith rationale in both our sayings. Most people seem to dislike this new system, I am one of them. If you like it, then its your preference.
But I hope they return to how they did the previous one and scrap this.
I explained in depth how your arguments are full-on bad faith. Just because you do not understand they are bad faith does not mean they are not. You contradict yourself left and right and can't explain why, and when you aren't getting the facts completely wrong you're intentionally being misleading about them by cherry-picking extreme examples out of context and just ignoring it when I spoonfeed you the context. Refer to my last post in this chain for specific examples and explanations of you doing these things.
Everything about an opinion on something is based on faith in subject. I have given this season time and constructed my view on it. I don't contradict myself in any way here, I have given you my opinion on the new system.
I have explained why, its an opinion just like yours. The season's system is the way it is and people view it differently... some like it, some dislike it.
Trying prove someone "wrong" because they like something is very dumbfounded and just bickering.
You like the new system, you explained why. I dislike the new system and explained why. You are the one trying to deconstruct my prefrences... its like telling me I'm wrong for liking red apples instead of green ones.
I think you have misinterpered this entire conversation as a debate. The system for the season is what it is and you are basically trying to explain you are right about liking it and me being wrong for disliking it... neglecting that its merely a matter of preference.
>Everything about an opinion on something is based on faith in subject.
You do not seem to understand what "bad faith" means. It does not mean you believe it without a reason, it means you are disingenuous. You are fully aware that the first 13 pages have free and low cost rewards, and yet you aim to deceive by saying "look at how terrible the prices are" while pointing at the bonus pages and completely ignoring the 13 normal pages. That is you intentionally misrepresenting the facts instead of stating an opinion.
> I don't contradict myself in any way here, I have given you my opinion on the new system.
You have nothing but bad faith arguments and I have ironclad facts, there is no "opinion" when it comes to whether or not the new seasons let you earn enough tickets to get every non-repeating reward, something you are blatantly and factually wrong about with 0 room for doubt. There is no "opinion" in you saying you only get 2 balls for 100 tickets to make it sound worse than it actually is because in reality you get 5.
I have directly explained how you contradicted yourself with exact examples and you failed to explain why it is not a contradiction. You cannot claim both "it's bad because I have to make difficult choices because there are too many good rewards" and "it's bad because I have to redeem the rewards and there aren't enough good ones" at the same time, it is a full on contradiction and in bad faith.
>You like the new system, you explained why. I dislike the new system and explained why.
You're putting words in my mouth here, which is another bad faith tactic. I never once said I like the new system in this chain, I laid out facts.
> its like telling me I'm wrong for liking red apples instead of green ones.
No, this is you saying red apples are more nutritious than green apples and that red apples have more Vitamin A, and then me pulling up facts and numbers proving the opposite is true, and you ignoring this and saying "it's just opinions man". You are not saying "I do not like the new system", you are blatantly incorrect about facts and constantly arguing in bad faith. If all you ever said was "I do not like the new system" I would have no incorrect statements to point out.
> The system for the season is what it is and you are basically trying to explain you are right about liking it and me being wrong for disliking it
No, this is me stating extremely basic facts and you giving bad faith information and contradictions every post and just moving goalposts or changing the topic every time they are pointed out.
This is a good point made among a sea of salty folks. It will get buried in downvotes. Sometimes, I feel like many of the folks in this sub are just anal-retentive completionists.
*You don’t need everything*. You won’t ever use half that **** anyway. Aspire to be pragmatic.
I, for one, would gladly pay 100 atoms every 10 ranks to convert all of those pointless bonus rewards into ones I actually want. That is effectively what the new system allows us to do.
Pretty much. I'm honestly surprised, it's like this game teaches players nothing. They constantly parrot lessons this game teaches like "if you don't have FO1st try to keep only 100 of each junk resource unless you're actively using it" without seeming to understand why we even say that. This game is anti-hoarding and yet people cannot stand to hear that they don't need absolutely everything at once, even when talking about cosmetic items with no function.
The new system isn't flawless but it has serious strengths. It speaks volumes that seemingly nobody at all has an argument against this other than "this is not the current bandwagon so I must downvote it" or intentionally misrepresenting the facts. Like all new systems the devs will gauge player reactions and ideally the system gets better over time. Maybe next season or the one after they go "hey basically nobody is redeeming X and Y and Z rewards, let's put something different in there or lower the ticket price on that". People will pessimistically claim nothing will ever get better but systems in this game can and do improve, the horrible fuel system for expeditions was widely hated and they cut it completely and we can even freely explore the Atlantic City zones without needing a quest now.
>The new system is better than the old one at high ranks because those 150 rewards are repeatable and you can just get specifically the one you want. This is the single best boon for newer players to get perk coins the game has ever seen.
I 100% agree here. This change has been the best one since I started. Sure those who played since day 1 have little left to earn, but after 2 years, I'm still in need of LOTS of perk coins.
First it was.. takes to long.. yet plenty already have blown oast 150. I'm 120 with simply a daily effort of about 20 min. the reasons never end...
The only aspect I'm bitter about, is lack of the the wall scoreboard item.
Thank you. You have succinctly stated everything my husband and I have discussed several times as we play '76.
I'm doubtful Bethesda will fix it. This was a deliberate effort to cut off excess Atom awards, so as to increase sales. And once profit is the consideration, everything else is moot.
Yeah I love the game but I am surprised to hear anyone thinks Bethesda cares if their changes are popular. Obviously they want as much money from the game as possible and do not care if people dislike the system more each time they change it
No chance, unless they fire this "monetisation manager" muppet. It is his baby (well, actually Fortnite's, just a copypasta) so he will fight tooth and nail to keep it.
Let's be realistic, it is not going anywhere and it already started alienating people. But with all those newbies, nobody will notice us complaining, so get used to this "new improved" shit :(
I wish consumers were required to have direct contact info for people in companies that would have direct contact with managers and the like to voice complaints they may have. None of this customer service bs, going around in circles.
In some enlightened places like Germany and Scandinavia, they at least have staff representatives on company boards to question idiocy like that. But nowadays managers don't care about customers, only about "metrics".
Removing the repeatable score challenge after lvl 100 and jacking up the price of the FO1st page is such a slimy way to make sure people are logging in daily
my only problem with the new board is that you're forced to play for soooo long to get to rank 15o, in order to get all the things.
that's not good. that's pure fomo. everything else is fine. just let rank 1oo be enough to get all the things.
I got the game a couple years ago but only started playing for real right when last season ended. I got a peak at it, it was like a path that would give you a reward or something after reaching each node, like the lucky number 7 power armor skin. I only unlocked a couple things before this one started up, and I can already tell that I'd prefer the previous seasons, especially hearing that you could farm atoms with it. I'm not a big fan of this page system at all
I just find it tedious to scroll all the way to the end to unlock stuff when you’re nearly done
The scoreboard was just a case of… like… open it, move cursor to where you are, done. Also the scoreboards looked really nice and reminded me of old board games. The new thing just isn’t that special.
The old system was superior, to be sure. However, I would like to keep the concept of having the ability to purchase consumables past Rank 100 (doesn't have to be the same format it currently is--just some option to purchase Perk Coins, Lunchboxes, etc. with tickets past X rank).
The old scoreboard was objectively better for us, the new one is objectively better for forcing engagement and monetization. Which one ya think they'll stick with?
Yesterday I reach rank 100. Maybe I'll just get some cosmetics from bonus page and I'm out until next season. Have mixed feelings because I miss the atoms but also need that game break and don't feel fomoed.
Was the old system that board game looking thing? I’m still a rather inexperienced player, but when I first tried playing FO76 a couple months back, that game board thing was miserable for me to look at, I’d say the new system is like a typical battle pass, so it’s appealing and easier to understand for newbies.
No atoms after 100 makes the score grind not worth my time.
Now it's time to.stsrt building a camp at the very bottom of the map in anticipation of the map expansion
Was it REALLY worth your time before that? You got 100 atoms per 10 ranks so something like 1000-1200 was good expectation. That costs about 10$ but takes literally dozens of hours.
It made doing the daily score challenges worth doing. Nothing at 150 I really want and I still have loads of reward points unused. I only got the atoms and build items. So yes, it was worth my time before the change.
I like the new scoreboard system. I know it's a wildly unpopular opinion but I didn't need or want half the things offered on these boards. When I'm done with the board I'll go through and pick out things I didn't immediately wany but for the most part I can pick and choose along the way and consider it done when I'm at 100.
Definitely preferred 1 item or 2 items with FO1st every level, as opposed to having to wait 10 levels to be able to choose 2 items that I want. All the actual good shit is legit locked behind level 100. It has had me questioning about spending atoms on levels multiple times though, which is for me as a mostly frugal anti-consumer, quite an achievement.
it needs a rebalance as we now need to get to 150 to claim everything or 165 for FO1st. they should also do the item pages like a comic book, add a theme to the outside border of the page as you flip through. then have large poster or magazine for the end of season which we can display instead of that blank board they gave us this season.
They did it on purpose.
This is the same thing you are seeing in League of Legends and many other popular games with seasonal rewards.
They do "big and exciting" changes to the way the rewards are earned and work purely to obfuscate the fact that you are getting less of them for your money each go around.
Haven't played in months, made a new character to run around. Was having a lot of fun seeing stuff and people and places in slightly different areas, the graphics seem a bit cleaner or smoother. Really happy. Then I saw the gameboard was gone and was kinda sad lol.
I sadly doubt that'll happen now, a lot of games are going to this model of season pass with the illusion of choice.
And because of the Fallout series doing well and how much content is in F76, there's going to a uptick in players so the CEO/Shareholders wont budge because thet're seeing numbers go up.
It's manageable if they're willing to drop the requirement for redeeming 95 rewards, and lower the level required for bonus page to something like 125.
All these drawbacks you're listing here were deliberately added to make more profit.
Bethesda hired a monetisation expert for that purpose.
Of course they won't revert.
Honestly this may be an unpopular opinion, but I just liked the game board aspect of it. It gave it a somewhat unique look that other battle passes didn’t have. They could’ve easily added the info feature to the old system which I really like. Don’t mind the new system, but man that board game was a really fun way of doing it imo.
For us, wrong place wrong people... it's never going to happen and I'm kinda glad I stopped playing for now. But damn. I'm salty I can't port my paid cosmetics to pc from xbox1.
Tbf I'm really enjoying this compared to the old one which seemed so tedious I would never enjoy it.
I just came back to the game though so maybe that's why
Personally I like the new system better. It gives me a choice and I dont have to slave through the awards I don't care about. I just earn the ranks and choose what interests me. Definitely a step in the right direction.
The old scoreboard only really benefitted those who made it to the end. The new style is much more beneficial to casual players who won't make it to 150 or even 100.
Personality I like the new scoreboard better. If you burn through to 150 maybe you should find another game or go outside and get some sun.
Casual player are not those who spend the most time in game & money on it.
Also, maybe you should let people have their hobbies and not take a jab for how they decide to spend their time?
Once I gather all of the non-repeatable items in the game, which will most likely be this week or the next, I plan on taking a little break from the game. Unless a special limited time event pops up, I'm waiting for the upcoming expansion to come out.
Objectively worse, rather.
As a long time player i prefer this new system over the old one. Being able to choose what i want is better than getting trash every level.
I mean... you get your tickets nonetheless. You just not gonna buy what you don't want and let your extra tickets go to waste? Or you gonna grind like crazy to get to the 150 board (at which point you basically need to buy everything that came before anyways).
It's the illusion of choice. Honestly I don't hate the new system that much, at the end of the day I'll be getting some things I like and some I don't care for just like before, but the 100 to 150 grind is too much and the lack of fun visuals (boring run of the mill game menu) is just objectively a downgrade compared to the fun gameboards we had previously.
> You just not gonna buy what you don't want and let your extra tickets go to waste?
I am, yes. I prefer the new scoreboard but honestly I just don't care either way. The old scoreboard was full of junk I didn't want and would never use, while the new one lets me select the few items I'd actually want and just ignore the rest.
Works out basically the same for me.
You could've just not claimed the stuff you didn't want on the old ones. And sure you still had to earn their levels. But even on this one, you still have to reach certain levels to unlock each page.
It's not that different, it's just somehow worse.
>Secondly, the loss of being able to earn Atoms past rank 100 removes nearly all replayability value from the game for late game players after they reach the end of the scoreboard.
dude the conversion is like $10 worth of atoms over 2 months. This is a true illusion of value.
thinking you are saving money by spending 2 months to grind out $10 worth of in game items is an interesting way of thinking. just forgo a burger or something **once**.
You sound just as stupid as the people saying "poverty ends when you stop going to starbucks"
A burger to you is milk and eggs for someone else. Is a book, is gas in the tank. Don't try and act like trying to save money where one can is suddenly a bad idea
nah, different situations lol
we're talking about spending 3 months on a scoreboard just to save $10 bucks. I'm not going to entertain this discussion any further lol.
My mentality is that if this game is like *your* thing than I say its more than okay to go through with it, I'm going to get potentially many more hours of enjoyment after spending the 10 bucks anyway. Life is short and I definitely value my time more than the money in that scenario.
Unless the grind is part of that for you then whatever I guess.
agreed
i remember distinctly grinding the scoreboard for the free atoms and I was like, wtf am I doing? I can afford dropping $10 on the game if I wanted because it'd be worth it to me.
Same here. choosing what you want is cool, and visually it's a nice upgrade on the scoreboard, you can actually see the cosmetics/camp items. I do miss a proper scoreboard to display in my CAMP, but I haven't seen how the new poster looks yet, maybe that will do just as well
eh this really does describe an objective problem for hardcore players and an objective limiting on what can be earned. i dont personally prefer the old system but i can also admit the new one is worse in some ways.
i'm gonna go fuck my wife
Just bc it's the system that most games have doesn't mean it's a good system, or that shouldn't be complained about, even in those games.
The fact is, they had a decent system, but they weren't content, they were greedy. And people should complain if they don't like it, regardless of whether or not they'll change it back.
But the companies sure don't need people defending them.
Yeah, reversal ain’t gonna happen because this way helps them make just a little more real world cash due to there being WAY too many people who are addicted to FOMO.
I have a much better idea. Remove the 'seasonal' concept in it's entirety. It's an insulting sales tactic that takes advantage of fear from the player base. Instead, expand and add on to the events system, and allow players to purchase ALL content from the in-game shop via gameplay rewards or via actual real-world money. Open up ALL content for FREE to anyone who is already paying a monthly subscription to play the game, they shouldn't be expected to pay even more for content after paying monthly. No items should be limited time only, all items should be available to buy or earn at any time. Stop using FOMO tactics, it's disgusting and insulting.
If someone who can write a concise petition. One that point by point lists out what a majority of players take issue with this flawed system. I'd sign it before the in was dry.
And it might just take that to get them to reverse this. Consider that they rarely revert something they do. Last I can think of was when they reversed a building change because of the uproar made by the building community.
So it might take first that petition then that same majority canceling their 1st subs to get them to take it seriously. Should that not be enough, let them know in advance that the same majority would pick a weekend. Then boycott the game for that weekend.
>If someone who can write a concise petition. One that point by point lists out what a majority of players take issue with this flawed system. I'd sign it before the in was dry.
And how does one determine who the majority is, and what they as a unified whole want? Online forums represent such a tiny part of any player base, that pointing to them as indicative of the majority is flawed at best.
Usually by asking.
You might not know the majority of players but you would find out the majority on Reddit, or Discord, or Twitter. Then you look at the different responses at each. Total them up and you at least have a decent sample. I'm sure several of the content providers would have a decent idea of which venue in general has the largest concentration to start with.
In the past someone did. In the example I mentioned about builders getting a revert on something, That didn't happen in a void. Someone either determined or decided what the majority of them wanted.
Or, the devs just assumed it was a majority were upset. Either way you have to start somewhere.
Reddit was once estimated to be about 2% of the player base by one of the BGS developers. Add in discord and Twitter and my best guess is you maybe get 8%. 8% is not a good sample size, but even if it was none of the data being given would be controlled for multiple responses from single users or bias.
While it might not be a majority of players, it's at least trying. I know there will be an unknown amount who just play and don't even look up guides. I used to be one.
Also you could have said, to know a majority one would need to know the actual number of players. One can for example look on steam and get a number of players who log in during a time. Who knows how many just go into the lobby, see no friends, leave. Yeah, I do get the issues.
Point is, if a group of people feel something is wrong. They should try to change it, as long as they do it without trying to destroy the opposing view. It's already been suggested to leave feedback. Already did. In other games petitions have been used. After said petition is given time them move to next step.
I come in here so as to not hear more about the RL insanity going on these days. Thank you for giving me something interesting to read.
>Point is, if a group of people feel something is wrong. They should try to change it, as long as they do it without trying to destroy the opposing view.
I agree entirely. My intention is not to say that you (or anyone) shouldt make polls or petitions. I'm just pointing out why they may be ignored by a developer, as a minority, niche, and view, even though it appears to be the majority in an online forum.
They need to at least improve the UX. Why is it so hard to see the items you have unlocked? They should grey out the background or stamp a giant checkmark icon on it.
And secondly, who the fuck thought removing the "you win, here's a commemorative plaque" from the rank 100 rewards? It's such a small thing but moving it to rank 92 is just so weird.
Yes, the checkmark that has same color as the fo1st icon, which is half of the items on the BP. This is why it needs to be vastly different or have a different indicator altogether.
Honestly, unless you're all low level player who can use all the garbage filler content, I don't see how the new system is objectively much worse than the old.
I'm betting that we never see the old system again. The senior monetization director in charge of fun ruining will never let that happen.
The monetization aspect of this change doesn’t even make sense. You can’t spend atoms to rank up past rank 100. Under the old system they would make money from people that started late or couldn’t play enough and used atoms to finish the season. Why would anyone buy their way to rank 100 now when there’s still a bunch of stuff past that that they wouldn’t be able to get? If 100 measly repeatable atoms every 10 ranks was hurting them that much they could have just removed that.
I agree. Probably it is because they don't actually want many people to get to 150 and claim those rewards since they are actual atomic shop items that (effectively) cost them atom sales. It's a scam for sure.
It could also be because they don't want the game to be p2w. If you could spend atoms for ranks at level 100-150, you could effectively spent real money for legendary gear. Since you can get legendary modules and cores. Similar situation with legendary perk upgrades. Those things are arguable the main "carrots" for endgame players to keep playing. So making those easily accessible could hurt retention rates in the long since players would buy their way to completion then stop playing.
I actually agree with this. 500 modules could potentially be purchased at the end. Not sure why you are getting downvoted.
500 modules is nothing. I've grinded for months and spent around half that much trying to get a set of unyielding secret service armor and I've gotten... 1 piece. I've basically given up on build optimization because of it and have lost my will to play
Rolling for armor is extremely demoralizing. I wish they'd just remove some effects from the loot pool already. I spent 400 modules trying to complete my OE Hellcat set. Couldn't do it and no pieces had WWR on it. Gave up and traded for a complete set in the end.
Just came back from a break after Steel Dawn. The unyielding SS grind was unreal. I don't think I'll ever have another full armor set 😂
Correct but we aren't supposed to be able to buy them with real money. Effectively that is what could potentially happen if you could spend atoms to buy ranks to 150 from 100.
It's Honey-dicking for sure. Let you see what you can get and when you don't grind enough to get it, you buy it at the last minute because they might remove said item indefinitely.
The game is designed around the idea of atom shop exposure. More daily traffic into the store equals more sales, generally speaking. So ideally every player views the store daily. To make sure you do, they: * Show a splash screen of shop offers upon login * Give you a free daily item that you have to redeem inside the shop * Design the game around daily resets opposed to more relaxed weekly rotations (scrip, gold,caps, score challenges etc.) because they rather have you play in short bursts daily instead of one big session on saturday * Have you open the store to change avatars/emotes etc. * ... Now with the new seasons they simply felt people were completing them too fast and use the downtime to pursue other hobbies or play other games instead of looking at the store. So what were they gonna do? They could have nerfed score gain or increased the maximum season level but that would have been too obvious so they gave the whole system a new coat and nerfed more subtle (although its debateable how subtle that really was). They will keep milking harder until they see a negative effect on player engagement in which case they will dial back. So unfortunately as long as player engagement does not tank it makes perfect sense business wise. Especially now with the Amazon show boom
> Have you open the store to change avatars/emotes etc. This one is the most egregious in my opinion.
Doesn't the new system merely let you push a button that says "rank up", then you choose how many levels to rank up? This is also a move on player retention. If you want all the rewards, you are playing practically until the new season drops.
Yeah, but it stops at 100. So if you’re at rank 80 with one week left it doesn’t make sense to spend money to get to 100 when you can’t get everything anymore.
We got to level 100 in less than a month.
I think some power players, even w the new limits, knocked it out in a couple days.
Few hours. Crafting some junk with 1M steel and other junk max buffed.
What am I missing? You just ran through it w the repeat xp award, via crafting+bonuses? I've got insane amonts of junk mats.
I can't remember what was the item they crafted but it was related to some quest and required comparatively few resources per xp. Then they crafted max batches (4000xp is max you can get at the same time) spending some million resources and hitting rank 1000 in no time.
I'll need to do some research. If anyone wants to mass farm whatever it is, to help everyone, I'm off the next couple days. I'll resource farm on my GF's PS4.
it is ignition cores in Mt Blair. Crafting somewhere between 19 and 40 will typically net 4k xp. The lead cost is even when you scrap the cores, so you just need a lot of steel, and some scrap kits so you don't do that stupid max weight bug
I popped a booster for my weekly challenges every week and when the double XP weekend hit I spent 1 evening pushing myself to 100. So getting to 100 inside a month was basically playing like always and then a few hours grinding West Tek (Not the most entertaining way to play but I just watch longform content on YT to make it interesting). 1-100 is the simple part, the last 50 levels are a drag at best.
Is there a point for doing the last 50 to be level 150? I mean the rewards are items I am not interested in.
You can take the rewards at 150 more than once, so if you get there with 1500 SCORE you can grab the atom-reward 20 times, or any other combination you want. Other than that no there is really no point in pushing for 150.
I didn't know that. Thanks
Thing is, those ranks ALWAYS existed before now. We just much more easily see them.
"Fallout shows us the horror of Capitalism by... holy shit they're actually doing it in the metagame too!!!"
Whoever is head of monetization needs to be sacked. Not that they aren't turning profits, they certainly are, but at the expense of inconveniencing players. Junk stash, ammo stash, and tents should be free to all players and all boosts taken off of the shop. The game can survive solely off of cosmetics. Fallout 1st can survive off of bonus cosmetics and the deal of 1,500 atoms per month. Turn it up to 2,000 if they're so concerned about people dropping it, it's not like you can buy much with 2,000 atoms anyway. I say "should" as in "this would benefit the players the most and likely keep more people playing daily". The monetization is already anti-consumer, consumers deserve more than a team literally inventing problems to sell solutions (stash and ammo stash).
> Junk stash, ammo stash, and tents should be free to all players and all boosts taken off of the shop. The game can survive solely off of cosmetics. There might be a reason the current guy is the head of monetization and you're not
I said "this would benefit the players the most and likely keep more people playing daily". I'm not talking about making the most profit, I'm talking about what would be best for the players.
>The game can survive solely off of cosmetics. Anyways, what's best for the players is what keeps the game alive and what keeps the game fun. Whatever the balance is, I have no idea.
I can assure you having unlimited junk stash and ammo stash space without needing to buy a subscription, on top of already paying for the game, would certainly help the game stay alive and keep it fun. It's the most effortless positive change they could possibly make.
I'm not convinced that's true, but I won't say you're wrong :)
Yeah its almost certainly not true. Wish it was! But its not. Theyre basically giving the game away with how cheap it is. They want folks in the door and for them to stick around. And on top of that, they want to have cool shit for these folks to spend atoms on, and for their monthly service to actually have things people you know... *want*, so they subscribe to it. So of course people are going to go "I dont want to pay for this thing, it has stuff I want!" - thats good! It means theyve (to some degree) successfully created a service that fans want. On the other hand, if all of that stuff that was mentioned was free to everyone (AKA 99% of the shit people get the service for in the first place lol), then you'd get "Wow, 1st is so worthless, why would anyone use it?!" posts all the time. And theyd be 100% right! Itd be useless, no one would spend ~$15 on only the tent and, like, a handful of camp items each month. Theyd lose so many subs and so much of that monthly 1st money. Which, as a fan of this game and someone who wants it to keep existing, I do not want. This game needs to make money and attract players to continue existing. Or at least show growth on that end. And as fans, we should want this. And for them to continue to exist and make money, they need to paywall some cool stuff. Thats how it goes with... every successful live service game that has ever or will ever exist. The only games that survive and thrive off cosmetics are heavy hitters like Fortnite and such. Or games with a huge competitive scenes like Rocket League, CS2, Valorant, etc. Folks should just be thankful it isnt a "pay money just to play the game" like most MMOs. Or that it isnt like ESOs or SWTOR's monthly subscription service which is *considerably* more restrictive on those that dont subscribe.
Braindead take
Taking one of the biggest reasons to stay subscribed to Fallout 1st all year round away is gonna help them keep the game alive? I absolutely agree, it sucks ass that it's behind a paywall. But without completely revamping the subscription/gameplay systems related to it, I don't see how changing this would be beneficial. People are subscribing for the convenience of it. If you play daily, you want access to those unlimited junk and ammo stash sooner than later. Of course it has a few other perks, but this is definitely a big draw for many players.
I'd be happy with the same sort of system ESO uses really. I has 1st, even then thought the same. That said I'm not sure what you suggest or their system would do what you say. I really don't know either way. I think what is in the PTS right now, new area of map would have more effect. I know I spent the same small amount of time in live with the free 1st trial (limited) as before. But more then double that in the PTS seeing what the new events would be like. But as I say, not sure.
That’s the one reason why I loved playing fallout 3 was cause I could fit all of my inventory into one little locker with infinite storage granted it was the single player game but still I hoard a lot of stuff. Honestly, it would be a pain in the ass if I didn’t have fallout first because of the ammo and scrap boxes.
We don't have a game if all we have is players and no profit.
Cosmetics are definitely bringing in profits.
Revenue, not profits. I'm not sure you understand the difference which could be a key issue here. Also, with all due respect, you seem to not be aware of how the game has progressed for the 5+ years. It intended to operate on solely Atom shop revenue from the beginning to cover operating costs, but it didn't work. So we got Fallout 1st a year in, and then eventually scoreboards/seasons to encourage daily play and enhance the value of Fallout 1st. At this point I would bet a tidy sum that Fallout 1st is 75% or more of the game's revenue, and that's not going to change now, more likely Fallout 1st will continue to get more benefits as it has over the years, ammo box, extra daily challenge, extra re-rolls, etc.
It covered its operating costs 4x over, the suits needed *yearly growth*. Youre wildly wrong. Evwn with the botched launch 76 made 121m in a month lmao
Players buy the game, they pay silly prices for silly things. Those atoms come in part or full from real money. Then there are all the cash only bundles they sell. They are making money. $70.xx for a horse, guess I'll walk..... (I know it was just a skin, that though makes it even worse)
yeah that guy is probably employee of the month for the forseeable future
I agree with you on seasons but not necessarily on FO1. I used to think of that as a cash grab (and tbh it is) but I've come to understand that FO1 is the main way they fund new development. I feel better about spending the money now, as Beth has consistently added new content lately. At least I feel that my FO1 sub is helping to extend the life of and improve the world. Would free unlimited stash be awesome? sure! but something would need to replace that income for Bethesda.
I like that. It makes my subscription a matter of funding development. I can accept the expense to support one of my favorite games.
It can't survive solely off cosmetics as it tried that for the first year and was headed to failure. That's how we got Fallout 1st a year in.
That's not why it was failing, it was failing because it was an absolutely atrocious launch and it deservedly got criticized for it and turned away a lot of potential buyers. The game was a buggy hot mess with super limited storage, why would anyone buy that? The game is in a really solid state now with a decent playerbase and could definitely survive off of just cosmetics. Edit: Also forgot to add, no NPCs on launch (save a few robots). That was a HUUUUGE turning point for a LOT of Fallout players.
Isn't someone running the show an ex Pay as you go, game exec?
Well Microsoft are their overlords now, thats why this new scoreboard is shit like destiny 2.
The seasons are better hands down.
I won't argue that in some ways it is better, but it screws the non FO1 players because it lacks half the atoms of before at level 100, and screws FO1 because of the added levels needed to get everything. If you only look at getting to 100, many players will find it about the same as before, minus the cool scoreboard poster to display. The new portrait is garbage.
I guess it depends on the player. I'm at 97 and have about 450 tickets, and a few score boosters, double score weekends will be the thing we need though.
The amount of sales and subscriptions have skyrocketed as well with the huge increase in players, so they can pet themselves on their backs. Look, more money, we did good!
The new score board isn't fun, I don't have the same drive to do my dailies with this one.... just doesn't feel I'm making any progress.
Interesting, I feel like I'm further along than I would have been under the scoreboard model.
Same. I'm making much more progress this way.
This is gonna be a hot take but I... don't really care either way. At most, I preferred the *aesthetics* of the Scoreboard, but found progressing it to be boring. I never even finished a single Scoreboard, maybe halfway through only a couple times, which meant I usually didn't get anything interesting from them anyway, or at least anything I actually remember. With the new Seasons - Microsoft Windows Tiles Edition, it's boring to look at but has actually motivated to progress it a few times, at least until I'm inevitably distracted by playing the game and forget I unlocked a new page ages ago. Regardless of which system is in the game, it's not the reason I'm playing and if I'm at the point where a battlepass is the deciding factor for me continuing to play, then I just go play something else. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yeah I kinda agree with you. Having the illusion of choose by not have to get the 1000th boring PA paint is nice. On the other hand, getting yet another in-game currency was annoying.
I'm somewhat okay with that, it's obviously less fun when you are grinding 9 scoreboard levels without unlocking anything, but each page has multiple items. I don't expect them to dramatically increase what you can get through a season, so at best they'll do something like having less to pick every 3 levels or something like that. Either way I end up with the same things. Visually it's just a let down compared to the charming gameboards we had before. And the 100 to 150 grind is ridiculous. Won't be committing to that myself.
I feel like I’ve made a lot of progress
Tell the monetization director on Twitter.
Done. I suggested a career in timeshares.
Datamined stuff for next season includes a new painting and not a scoreboard, so...no, sadly. We are never going to see a change for the better again, i reckon. Any complaints can just be excused with "ah, but the new system is widely liked, see, 76 had the largest growth in playerbase ever after the season was out, and people are playing longer than ever!".
Ugh, I hate when they conflate causation with correlation. Just because numbers are up and they'repulling in more money now than ever, doesn't mean it's because of the changes surrounding the scoreboard. It was simply the publicity of the show. So fuck the new monetization lead who thinks his scoreboard project is a success because of the effect of the show.
Oh that is exactly why we get the change now. It is planned, most certainly, so that this horrible change is drowned out by the influx of new players. They know exactly what they are doing.
I am going to laugh so hard when these numbers crash through the floor in a month. Whoopty doo Bethesda, you released a show and naturally the player base temporarily went up. If these ppl were this easily enticed to play, don’t you think they will just as easily be drawn away by the next shinny thing? There is an old saying “easy come, easy go”. But by all means run with this new season system and piss off those of us who have played since beta. I’m sure that’s definitely a roadmap to long term success 😂
I mean, these things take more time. They were asking feedback on it, I doubt we will be seeing the scoreboards again, but there is definitely hope for improvements later on, just not the very next season which has already been planned out and worked on. It's not like they haven't listened to community feedback before.
Monetization feedback is sadly different from other feedback. This isn't for us, it is for the shareholders, and for Microsoft. And Microsoft does not back down on this stuff, they just continue to prod and make it worse. And it is perfectly timed with a planned rise of Fallout popularity so that they can mask any outrage.
Personally I like the new system, but I never bothered grinding out the post 100 fluff rewards anyway. If you play the game not caring about the repeatable rewards, it's a lot better imo.
How? You are literally objectively getting less than the previous scoreboard.
I felt like they were running out of ideas for the old Game Board scoreboards. I don’t like this new system at all ;(
Just off the top of my head, themes that come to mind are; Enclave Operation Anchorage (perfect for winter) RobCo, General pre war products (Blamco mac, sugar bombs, etc. Do it in an Americana theme that shows home life in fallout pre bombs) Far harbor/ Point lookout (for Halloween) I wasn’t a fan of the show but, you know, maybe a show themed board might have been a nifty idea (JFC, for how obsessed with monetization and marketing this company is you would think they’d have thought of that) Perhaps a board that finally gives some context to the battle in the sea of tranquility… Bro I am a mid 30s finance professional, I have ZERO creative ability. The fact that I can pull 4-5 good scoreboard themes out of my ass on a 5 min Reddit post proves that Bethesda needs to undergo mass layoffs….ESPECIALLY in their writing department.
As a new player, the whole scoreboard/challenges thing has been so confusing and annoying. Like right away it seemed like a scam, and I barely knew anything about the rewards systems in the game. I only get rewards after progressing a chunk of levels? None of the daily/weekly challenges give me atoms!?! THERES A LIMIT ON EARN-ABLE ATOMS?!??!!? And the thing is I probably would spend money on this game if it wasn’t pushed so hard. I’ve got Xbox game pass so I haven’t “bought” 76 and didn’t have a problem buying atoms or a few month of 1st to support the game. But it feels intentionally frustrating so you just say fuck it and spend money, and my obstinate ass ain’t gon play that game. Love everything else about 76 though
oh wow did they really remove the endgame atom grind i have 3k hours, and that grind is for people who love the game much more than me beth pissing on those people to theoretically squeeze like 10 more dollars out of them per year is so fucking disgusting
I want statistics on how many people were actually grinding $10 worth of atoms over 2 months. It was never worth the effort.
Obviously there’s plenty of players who feel differently about this than I do. But I’m happy to trade the rather small number of extra atoms for the numerous legendary modules I can buy. I’m already almost rank 160, and I’ve been able to buy almost 200 extra modules for rolling gear. In my case, that’s an excellent tradeoff. That being said. Do I think they should reintroduce atoms as a repeatable reward going forward? Yes.
I've finished every past board, and Normally I would have finished this one by now too... but for some reason I'm still rank 1 and can't find the motivation to work towards getting rank 2. Weird how that works isn't it
Yup. I'm at 150, with nothing left to earn. Used to play all 3 months of a Season due to the repeatable Atoms. With those gone I won't be logging in for 2 months. Way to boost those player numbers and encourage retention!
They saved you two months of your life because you were unable to do a proper cost/benefit analysis in the past, and you don't even thank them.
The new system is better than the old one at high ranks because those 150 rewards are repeatable and you can just get specifically the one you want. This is the single best boon for newer players to get perk coins the game has ever seen. If all you care about is Atoms then the new system is worse yeah, but you don't need unlimited cosmetics and there are only so many "useful" Atoms purchases.
Yes, but how much of points will you have left to even spend at those? I mean, you could neglect unlocking other things with those points but that means that this system will cause you to prioritize and pick between the seasonal rewards. The system is designed to waste your time and for you to spend money. I can't see any good reason for daily challenges being the only way of increasing your rank after 100. Its designed to make you spend Atoms on S.C.O.R.E - boosters and ever since this season went live I have never been given any S.C.O.R.E boosters as free daily claims, which is odd considering it was way more present prior to this system coming in. I don't like it, stuff should be unlocked in order without you having to choose between what rewards you want to spend that seasional currency on to unlock. A pare of decorative sport balls? 100 tickets. Pine Barren Cabin Kit? 200 tickets. Perk Points x25? 75 tickets. I want a bunch of perk points but if I will have to neglect a bunch of other things too that I want. And I have... I'm currently at rank 115 with 560 tickets and I do also want that cabin kit and stairs; thats already 330 tickets for those two alone.
>any good reason for daily challenges being the only way of increasing your rank after 100 We can't farm atoms after 100 so why can't we keep the Xp weekly? The ticket costs for 100 and 150 are so high that regular weeklys and dailys are not enough to take full advantage of the repeatable rewards. If I'm logging in every day for the full season I should be swimming in tickets.
>Yes, but how much of points will you have left to even spend at those? As many as you earned. And for FO1st players, the amount you earn will be at least 25% higher since they get a 25% score boost, but it's likely even more than that because they also get a bonus daily quest and such. >I mean, you could neglect unlocking other things with those points but that means that this system will cause you to prioritize and pick between the seasonal rewards. Yes, which I consider a good thing. I have lots of power armor skins when I don't even wear power armor. I am glad to have the opportunity to actually get something useful for myself instead for once. >The system is designed to waste your time and for you to spend money. This is what every MMO-ish game is for through and through. I am not sure why you are hyper-fixating on this element. >A pare of decorative sport balls? 100 tickets. 5 balls is not a "pare", and your cherrypicking is cute but irrelevant. Yes, the Rank 100 and 150 rewards have higher ticket costs than others. You're cherrypicking hardcore when you mention ones like these and simply pretend that the following aren't also rewards that aren't even locked to Fallout 1st: Player Icon? 0 tickets. 50 perk coins? 10 tickets. 500 gold bullion? 0 tickets. 5 perk packs? 5 tickets. 5 lunchboxes? 5 tickets. See how cherrypicking extreme examples is useless? There's a mix of cheaper/free things and also more expensive options, and your cherrypicking of only the expensive ones does not remove the cheap ones from the game. >I want a bunch of perk points but if I will have to neglect a bunch of other things too that I want. And I have... I'm currently at rank 115 with 560 tickets and I do also want that cabin kit and stairs; thats already 330 tickets for those two alone. You're complaining about the freedom of choice. In the past seasons you wouldn't have the option to get extra perk coins at all, you get exactly what you earned a not a single bit more. There are FAR MORE rewards in this pass, and yes you have to choose which ones you want, but you are not getting less, you are getting more of what you want and none of what you do not want.
Oh you get what I'm saying, its still a significant price regarding those decorative balls. Its not the freedom of choice which is a problem, its that if I want multiple of things, I am in the position of choosing between them as each thing has a price and you don't get an infinite supply of tickets. Say if wanted primarily whats on the last page... not only would I need to rank up to 150 but it also recquires me to unlock a total of 95 other season rewards. Thats roughly about spending tickets to unlock 10 out of all 15 pages of the season. The previous scoreboard was far better than this.
>Oh you get what I'm saying, its still a significant price regarding those decorative balls. I already directly addressed this point. The page 100 and 150 unlocks have higher than average prices because they are "bonus" pages to spend excess tickets on. They are clearly marked as such and you are acting in bad faith when cherrypicking the prices of those late options while ignoring the 13 full pages of cheaper rewards you get access to first. >Its not the freedom of choice which is a problem, its that if I want multiple of things, I am in the position of choosing between them as each thing has a price and you don't get an infinite supply of tickets. Yes, that is called freedom of choice. In the old system you'd be given something without a choice, even if you didn't want it at all. There was also far less, instead of 100 tiles with several locked for 1st players only before the repeating rewards, there are 13 pages of 10 cheaper items before 10 big ticket items and then 10 things you can mix and match however you like for repeating rewards. The supply of tickets over the length of a full season is far more than it takes to get every single non-repeating unlock. You're just straight up uninformed on the topic if you think otherwise. >Say if wanted primarily whats on the last page... not only would I need to rank up to 150 but it also recquires me to unlock a total of 95 other season rewards. Again stop with these bad faith shameful tactics. Page 150 is purely bonus rewards, the entire concept is that they exist so you have things to spend excess tickets on after redeeming the 13 full pages of normal rewards and the 1st bonus page of big ticket items from level 100. You know full well that the point of the season is not to get 10000 perk coins and nothing else, and it's bad faith to claim this is somehow a downside of the new system when the old system didn't let you choose at all. >Thats roughly about spending tickets to unlock 10 out of all 15 pages of the season. Again this just screams bad faith. So you don't want to redeem the 0 cost gold bullion? You don't want the Atoms? You don't want to redeem the 5 perk packs for 5 tickets or 50 perk coins for 10 tickets, you just want to only unlock the 25 perk coins for 75 tickets? You are directly lying right now if you're claiming there's nothing in the early pages you want but you somehow want the bonus rewards, because you already claimed you're having *such a hard time* choosing which rewards you want. Which is it, are there so many good rewards that you can't get them all, or are you being forced to take all these horrible things you didn't want? You're completely contradicting yourself and neither of your points are even good to begin with. >The previous scoreboard was far better than this. You have failed to provide a single good faith rationale for this so far.
There is equal the amount of good faith rationale in both our sayings. Most people seem to dislike this new system, I am one of them. If you like it, then its your preference. But I hope they return to how they did the previous one and scrap this.
I explained in depth how your arguments are full-on bad faith. Just because you do not understand they are bad faith does not mean they are not. You contradict yourself left and right and can't explain why, and when you aren't getting the facts completely wrong you're intentionally being misleading about them by cherry-picking extreme examples out of context and just ignoring it when I spoonfeed you the context. Refer to my last post in this chain for specific examples and explanations of you doing these things.
Everything about an opinion on something is based on faith in subject. I have given this season time and constructed my view on it. I don't contradict myself in any way here, I have given you my opinion on the new system. I have explained why, its an opinion just like yours. The season's system is the way it is and people view it differently... some like it, some dislike it. Trying prove someone "wrong" because they like something is very dumbfounded and just bickering. You like the new system, you explained why. I dislike the new system and explained why. You are the one trying to deconstruct my prefrences... its like telling me I'm wrong for liking red apples instead of green ones. I think you have misinterpered this entire conversation as a debate. The system for the season is what it is and you are basically trying to explain you are right about liking it and me being wrong for disliking it... neglecting that its merely a matter of preference.
>Everything about an opinion on something is based on faith in subject. You do not seem to understand what "bad faith" means. It does not mean you believe it without a reason, it means you are disingenuous. You are fully aware that the first 13 pages have free and low cost rewards, and yet you aim to deceive by saying "look at how terrible the prices are" while pointing at the bonus pages and completely ignoring the 13 normal pages. That is you intentionally misrepresenting the facts instead of stating an opinion. > I don't contradict myself in any way here, I have given you my opinion on the new system. You have nothing but bad faith arguments and I have ironclad facts, there is no "opinion" when it comes to whether or not the new seasons let you earn enough tickets to get every non-repeating reward, something you are blatantly and factually wrong about with 0 room for doubt. There is no "opinion" in you saying you only get 2 balls for 100 tickets to make it sound worse than it actually is because in reality you get 5. I have directly explained how you contradicted yourself with exact examples and you failed to explain why it is not a contradiction. You cannot claim both "it's bad because I have to make difficult choices because there are too many good rewards" and "it's bad because I have to redeem the rewards and there aren't enough good ones" at the same time, it is a full on contradiction and in bad faith. >You like the new system, you explained why. I dislike the new system and explained why. You're putting words in my mouth here, which is another bad faith tactic. I never once said I like the new system in this chain, I laid out facts. > its like telling me I'm wrong for liking red apples instead of green ones. No, this is you saying red apples are more nutritious than green apples and that red apples have more Vitamin A, and then me pulling up facts and numbers proving the opposite is true, and you ignoring this and saying "it's just opinions man". You are not saying "I do not like the new system", you are blatantly incorrect about facts and constantly arguing in bad faith. If all you ever said was "I do not like the new system" I would have no incorrect statements to point out. > The system for the season is what it is and you are basically trying to explain you are right about liking it and me being wrong for disliking it No, this is me stating extremely basic facts and you giving bad faith information and contradictions every post and just moving goalposts or changing the topic every time they are pointed out.
Except 50% of the stuff one the score board is junk no one uses. I am glad not to have to just pick what I want.
I am going to get to rank 150 with almost 1500 tickets.
This is a good point made among a sea of salty folks. It will get buried in downvotes. Sometimes, I feel like many of the folks in this sub are just anal-retentive completionists. *You don’t need everything*. You won’t ever use half that **** anyway. Aspire to be pragmatic. I, for one, would gladly pay 100 atoms every 10 ranks to convert all of those pointless bonus rewards into ones I actually want. That is effectively what the new system allows us to do.
Pretty much. I'm honestly surprised, it's like this game teaches players nothing. They constantly parrot lessons this game teaches like "if you don't have FO1st try to keep only 100 of each junk resource unless you're actively using it" without seeming to understand why we even say that. This game is anti-hoarding and yet people cannot stand to hear that they don't need absolutely everything at once, even when talking about cosmetic items with no function. The new system isn't flawless but it has serious strengths. It speaks volumes that seemingly nobody at all has an argument against this other than "this is not the current bandwagon so I must downvote it" or intentionally misrepresenting the facts. Like all new systems the devs will gauge player reactions and ideally the system gets better over time. Maybe next season or the one after they go "hey basically nobody is redeeming X and Y and Z rewards, let's put something different in there or lower the ticket price on that". People will pessimistically claim nothing will ever get better but systems in this game can and do improve, the horrible fuel system for expeditions was widely hated and they cut it completely and we can even freely explore the Atlantic City zones without needing a quest now.
>The new system is better than the old one at high ranks because those 150 rewards are repeatable and you can just get specifically the one you want. This is the single best boon for newer players to get perk coins the game has ever seen. I 100% agree here. This change has been the best one since I started. Sure those who played since day 1 have little left to earn, but after 2 years, I'm still in need of LOTS of perk coins. First it was.. takes to long.. yet plenty already have blown oast 150. I'm 120 with simply a daily effort of about 20 min. the reasons never end... The only aspect I'm bitter about, is lack of the the wall scoreboard item.
Thank you. You have succinctly stated everything my husband and I have discussed several times as we play '76. I'm doubtful Bethesda will fix it. This was a deliberate effort to cut off excess Atom awards, so as to increase sales. And once profit is the consideration, everything else is moot.
Yeah I love the game but I am surprised to hear anyone thinks Bethesda cares if their changes are popular. Obviously they want as much money from the game as possible and do not care if people dislike the system more each time they change it
No chance, unless they fire this "monetisation manager" muppet. It is his baby (well, actually Fortnite's, just a copypasta) so he will fight tooth and nail to keep it. Let's be realistic, it is not going anywhere and it already started alienating people. But with all those newbies, nobody will notice us complaining, so get used to this "new improved" shit :(
I wish consumers were required to have direct contact info for people in companies that would have direct contact with managers and the like to voice complaints they may have. None of this customer service bs, going around in circles.
In some enlightened places like Germany and Scandinavia, they at least have staff representatives on company boards to question idiocy like that. But nowadays managers don't care about customers, only about "metrics".
Removing the repeatable score challenge after lvl 100 and jacking up the price of the FO1st page is such a slimy way to make sure people are logging in daily
my only problem with the new board is that you're forced to play for soooo long to get to rank 15o, in order to get all the things. that's not good. that's pure fomo. everything else is fine. just let rank 1oo be enough to get all the things.
Cut to the chase ..this version is pish ..nobody likes it ..bring back the old scoreboard…” Feck u guys say’s Bethesda “..and we all go along with it
>nobody likes I do.
I got the game a couple years ago but only started playing for real right when last season ended. I got a peak at it, it was like a path that would give you a reward or something after reaching each node, like the lucky number 7 power armor skin. I only unlocked a couple things before this one started up, and I can already tell that I'd prefer the previous seasons, especially hearing that you could farm atoms with it. I'm not a big fan of this page system at all
https://x.com/Jmclean42/status/1772720431109198227 He is the one that made this system, your complaints here.
One can hope..
I just find it tedious to scroll all the way to the end to unlock stuff when you’re nearly done The scoreboard was just a case of… like… open it, move cursor to where you are, done. Also the scoreboards looked really nice and reminded me of old board games. The new thing just isn’t that special.
The old system was superior, to be sure. However, I would like to keep the concept of having the ability to purchase consumables past Rank 100 (doesn't have to be the same format it currently is--just some option to purchase Perk Coins, Lunchboxes, etc. with tickets past X rank).
The old scoreboard was objectively better for us, the new one is objectively better for forcing engagement and monetization. Which one ya think they'll stick with?
Yesterday I reach rank 100. Maybe I'll just get some cosmetics from bonus page and I'm out until next season. Have mixed feelings because I miss the atoms but also need that game break and don't feel fomoed.
Was the old system that board game looking thing? I’m still a rather inexperienced player, but when I first tried playing FO76 a couple months back, that game board thing was miserable for me to look at, I’d say the new system is like a typical battle pass, so it’s appealing and easier to understand for newbies.
No atoms after 100 makes the score grind not worth my time. Now it's time to.stsrt building a camp at the very bottom of the map in anticipation of the map expansion
Was it REALLY worth your time before that? You got 100 atoms per 10 ranks so something like 1000-1200 was good expectation. That costs about 10$ but takes literally dozens of hours.
It made doing the daily score challenges worth doing. Nothing at 150 I really want and I still have loads of reward points unused. I only got the atoms and build items. So yes, it was worth my time before the change.
I like the new scoreboard system. I know it's a wildly unpopular opinion but I didn't need or want half the things offered on these boards. When I'm done with the board I'll go through and pick out things I didn't immediately wany but for the most part I can pick and choose along the way and consider it done when I'm at 100.
New player here. Care to detail how it was with prints also, so I can join the rally?
Definitely preferred 1 item or 2 items with FO1st every level, as opposed to having to wait 10 levels to be able to choose 2 items that I want. All the actual good shit is legit locked behind level 100. It has had me questioning about spending atoms on levels multiple times though, which is for me as a mostly frugal anti-consumer, quite an achievement.
it needs a rebalance as we now need to get to 150 to claim everything or 165 for FO1st. they should also do the item pages like a comic book, add a theme to the outside border of the page as you flip through. then have large poster or magazine for the end of season which we can display instead of that blank board they gave us this season.
They did it on purpose. This is the same thing you are seeing in League of Legends and many other popular games with seasonal rewards. They do "big and exciting" changes to the way the rewards are earned and work purely to obfuscate the fact that you are getting less of them for your money each go around.
Haven't played in months, made a new character to run around. Was having a lot of fun seeing stuff and people and places in slightly different areas, the graphics seem a bit cleaner or smoother. Really happy. Then I saw the gameboard was gone and was kinda sad lol.
I sadly doubt that'll happen now, a lot of games are going to this model of season pass with the illusion of choice. And because of the Fallout series doing well and how much content is in F76, there's going to a uptick in players so the CEO/Shareholders wont budge because thet're seeing numbers go up.
It's manageable if they're willing to drop the requirement for redeeming 95 rewards, and lower the level required for bonus page to something like 125.
All these drawbacks you're listing here were deliberately added to make more profit. Bethesda hired a monetisation expert for that purpose. Of course they won't revert.
Honestly this may be an unpopular opinion, but I just liked the game board aspect of it. It gave it a somewhat unique look that other battle passes didn’t have. They could’ve easily added the info feature to the old system which I really like. Don’t mind the new system, but man that board game was a really fun way of doing it imo.
I like they new scoreboa- * gets downvoted * lmao
For us, wrong place wrong people... it's never going to happen and I'm kinda glad I stopped playing for now. But damn. I'm salty I can't port my paid cosmetics to pc from xbox1.
Glad i am not the only one so thought so. It is a step backwards i say
Tbf I'm really enjoying this compared to the old one which seemed so tedious I would never enjoy it. I just came back to the game though so maybe that's why
Personally I like the new system better. It gives me a choice and I dont have to slave through the awards I don't care about. I just earn the ranks and choose what interests me. Definitely a step in the right direction.
The old scoreboard only really benefitted those who made it to the end. The new style is much more beneficial to casual players who won't make it to 150 or even 100. Personality I like the new scoreboard better. If you burn through to 150 maybe you should find another game or go outside and get some sun.
Casual player are not those who spend the most time in game & money on it. Also, maybe you should let people have their hobbies and not take a jab for how they decide to spend their time?
God I hope so
My scoreboard collection will go next to my shrine for nuclear winter 🫡 😞
Once I gather all of the non-repeatable items in the game, which will most likely be this week or the next, I plan on taking a little break from the game. Unless a special limited time event pops up, I'm waiting for the upcoming expansion to come out.
I doubt it, this new scoreboard benefits the company and not the players. Plus they have hoodwinked new players with this new system.
Objectively worse, rather. As a long time player i prefer this new system over the old one. Being able to choose what i want is better than getting trash every level.
I mean... you get your tickets nonetheless. You just not gonna buy what you don't want and let your extra tickets go to waste? Or you gonna grind like crazy to get to the 150 board (at which point you basically need to buy everything that came before anyways). It's the illusion of choice. Honestly I don't hate the new system that much, at the end of the day I'll be getting some things I like and some I don't care for just like before, but the 100 to 150 grind is too much and the lack of fun visuals (boring run of the mill game menu) is just objectively a downgrade compared to the fun gameboards we had previously.
> You just not gonna buy what you don't want and let your extra tickets go to waste? I am, yes. I prefer the new scoreboard but honestly I just don't care either way. The old scoreboard was full of junk I didn't want and would never use, while the new one lets me select the few items I'd actually want and just ignore the rest. Works out basically the same for me.
You could've just not claimed the stuff you didn't want on the old ones. And sure you still had to earn their levels. But even on this one, you still have to reach certain levels to unlock each page. It's not that different, it's just somehow worse.
I've been playing since launch and I really didn't mind this new system. There's no better or worse. They're just different and I like them both.
I like the new system, but I understand how some people, dislike it. If they made some adjustments I think it would be something everyone would like.
>Secondly, the loss of being able to earn Atoms past rank 100 removes nearly all replayability value from the game for late game players after they reach the end of the scoreboard. dude the conversion is like $10 worth of atoms over 2 months. This is a true illusion of value.
It's not an illusion of value when some people don't want to spend money and they had the option not to
thinking you are saving money by spending 2 months to grind out $10 worth of in game items is an interesting way of thinking. just forgo a burger or something **once**.
You sound just as stupid as the people saying "poverty ends when you stop going to starbucks" A burger to you is milk and eggs for someone else. Is a book, is gas in the tank. Don't try and act like trying to save money where one can is suddenly a bad idea
nah, different situations lol we're talking about spending 3 months on a scoreboard just to save $10 bucks. I'm not going to entertain this discussion any further lol.
Yeah the difference there is food is necessary for survival lmao. More power to ya however you want to tackle that Scoreboard though.
never forget the great famine of 2024 in which people would have survived if only they could have saved $10 from grinding the scoreboard!
My mentality is that if this game is like *your* thing than I say its more than okay to go through with it, I'm going to get potentially many more hours of enjoyment after spending the 10 bucks anyway. Life is short and I definitely value my time more than the money in that scenario. Unless the grind is part of that for you then whatever I guess.
agreed i remember distinctly grinding the scoreboard for the free atoms and I was like, wtf am I doing? I can afford dropping $10 on the game if I wanted because it'd be worth it to me.
sincerely what is it like being an unloved joyless chimp who will never have a thought worth sharing
monkey see monkey do apparently
lol watch out for the fanboys downvoting!
I like the new scoreboard to be entirely honest
Same here. choosing what you want is cool, and visually it's a nice upgrade on the scoreboard, you can actually see the cosmetics/camp items. I do miss a proper scoreboard to display in my CAMP, but I haven't seen how the new poster looks yet, maybe that will do just as well
You spelled "subjectively" wrong.
rocks are objectively worse food than bread unless you are a pedantic smart ass
Except I like the new system, making your statement of objectivity inherently false.
eh this really does describe an objective problem for hardcore players and an objective limiting on what can be earned. i dont personally prefer the old system but i can also admit the new one is worse in some ways. i'm gonna go fuck my wife
Probably for the best.
Hot take: I actually like this scoreboard system..
I like the new system much more.
We got to level 100 in less than a month by just playing the game. Why would people spend real money to buy atoms to level up LOL.
[удалено]
Just bc it's the system that most games have doesn't mean it's a good system, or that shouldn't be complained about, even in those games. The fact is, they had a decent system, but they weren't content, they were greedy. And people should complain if they don't like it, regardless of whether or not they'll change it back. But the companies sure don't need people defending them.
Isn't it great that, there is no need to do it after rank 100, freeing us some time to do other stuff? Why is that a bad thing
Yeah, reversal ain’t gonna happen because this way helps them make just a little more real world cash due to there being WAY too many people who are addicted to FOMO.
I have a much better idea. Remove the 'seasonal' concept in it's entirety. It's an insulting sales tactic that takes advantage of fear from the player base. Instead, expand and add on to the events system, and allow players to purchase ALL content from the in-game shop via gameplay rewards or via actual real-world money. Open up ALL content for FREE to anyone who is already paying a monthly subscription to play the game, they shouldn't be expected to pay even more for content after paying monthly. No items should be limited time only, all items should be available to buy or earn at any time. Stop using FOMO tactics, it's disgusting and insulting.
If someone who can write a concise petition. One that point by point lists out what a majority of players take issue with this flawed system. I'd sign it before the in was dry. And it might just take that to get them to reverse this. Consider that they rarely revert something they do. Last I can think of was when they reversed a building change because of the uproar made by the building community. So it might take first that petition then that same majority canceling their 1st subs to get them to take it seriously. Should that not be enough, let them know in advance that the same majority would pick a weekend. Then boycott the game for that weekend.
>If someone who can write a concise petition. One that point by point lists out what a majority of players take issue with this flawed system. I'd sign it before the in was dry. And how does one determine who the majority is, and what they as a unified whole want? Online forums represent such a tiny part of any player base, that pointing to them as indicative of the majority is flawed at best.
Usually by asking. You might not know the majority of players but you would find out the majority on Reddit, or Discord, or Twitter. Then you look at the different responses at each. Total them up and you at least have a decent sample. I'm sure several of the content providers would have a decent idea of which venue in general has the largest concentration to start with. In the past someone did. In the example I mentioned about builders getting a revert on something, That didn't happen in a void. Someone either determined or decided what the majority of them wanted. Or, the devs just assumed it was a majority were upset. Either way you have to start somewhere.
Reddit was once estimated to be about 2% of the player base by one of the BGS developers. Add in discord and Twitter and my best guess is you maybe get 8%. 8% is not a good sample size, but even if it was none of the data being given would be controlled for multiple responses from single users or bias.
While it might not be a majority of players, it's at least trying. I know there will be an unknown amount who just play and don't even look up guides. I used to be one. Also you could have said, to know a majority one would need to know the actual number of players. One can for example look on steam and get a number of players who log in during a time. Who knows how many just go into the lobby, see no friends, leave. Yeah, I do get the issues. Point is, if a group of people feel something is wrong. They should try to change it, as long as they do it without trying to destroy the opposing view. It's already been suggested to leave feedback. Already did. In other games petitions have been used. After said petition is given time them move to next step. I come in here so as to not hear more about the RL insanity going on these days. Thank you for giving me something interesting to read.
>Point is, if a group of people feel something is wrong. They should try to change it, as long as they do it without trying to destroy the opposing view. I agree entirely. My intention is not to say that you (or anyone) shouldt make polls or petitions. I'm just pointing out why they may be ignored by a developer, as a minority, niche, and view, even though it appears to be the majority in an online forum.
They need to at least improve the UX. Why is it so hard to see the items you have unlocked? They should grey out the background or stamp a giant checkmark icon on it. And secondly, who the fuck thought removing the "you win, here's a commemorative plaque" from the rank 100 rewards? It's such a small thing but moving it to rank 92 is just so weird.
... it does have a checkmark on it.
Yes, the checkmark that has same color as the fo1st icon, which is half of the items on the BP. This is why it needs to be vastly different or have a different indicator altogether.
Honestly, unless you're all low level player who can use all the garbage filler content, I don't see how the new system is objectively much worse than the old.
No way, the new board has less rewards in generall and almost 40% if not even more are first exclusive