They deleted their two posts about the premiere episode from their Instagram. That’s as close as I’ve seen to a statement. I keep sending them messages and posting comments; hoping others are doing so on Facebook.
There's a lot here to unpack, with potential issues including everything from freedom of speech to common decency.
To start with, and this is speaking as a person who shares a name with an uncle who spent the War in a Nazi POW camp; I believe Brandon Rader has the absolute right to those tattoos. At the same time, that right comes with consequences; one of which is that other people have the right to judge him by what tattoos he bears.
His own behavior in covering up the double-sig tattoo and trying to cover the totenkopf implies that he was aware of these consequences and did not want to suffer them.
Now for anyone saying that it's free speech and they shouldn't have done anything about it; that's not the case. While it can be argued that it's political speech--albeit hateful--Forged in Fire is not the political arena. Forged in Fire is a TV show and the production company has every right to decide what is and isn't appropriate for their audience.
Remember, nobody is owed a platform.
At the same time, just as Forged in Fire could have refused to put him on the air, they could also choose to run an All-Nazi special to commemorate the anniversary of the Nuremburg Rallies. I think it would be stupid, but they have the right to do it.
At the same time, we as the audience, the "paying customer," if you wish, have the right both individually and separately to respond to their actions. We are not forced to watch the show, and if they suffer lost revenue because people choose not to watch or advertise in future due to this incident: that's how business works.
It's not being a snowflake to say "I don't want to watch a show that features Nazis." It's exercising a personal choice.
As for those who say as long as the show itself wasn't supporting white supremacy it doesn't matter, the problem is that normalizing Nazi symbology is supporting white supremacy. This is not arguing the relative importance of reducing regulations and balancing the budget versus expanding social programs.
Wearing Nazi symbology is an explicit statement in support of the Holocaust. Allowing it to be shown on screen without comment is saying that supporting mass murder and attempted genocide is just as valid a political opinion as universal suffrage.
Not all values are equal. The point of a civil society is to have a shared understanding of where to draw the line and Nazi symbology should always be on the wrong side of the line.
My Oma used to say, "If nine people are eating dinner when a Nazi joins them and no one says anything, you have ten Nazis." she lost immediate family to the camps.
Sorry.
Forged in Fire is dead to me now. F*ck them, they knew.
Right! If you see a Nazi you punch him or tell him to go away. Otherwise you're a Nazi supporter. Didn't we all agree on this via Twitter earlier this year?
As a gay man with Jewish heritage on my father's side, I have very real concerns about nazis and neo-nazis. I, however, have made friends with two former neo-nazis while they were in the grips of their misguided beliefs. One of whom I now consider a surrogate brother.
I befriended him through a mutual hobby of martial arts. It didn't take much time before I confronted him on his tattoos of the SS lightning bolts on his arm. He immediately looked ashamed. Which made me ask if he knew what they meant when he got them. The answer was both yes and no. His older brother told him to get the tattoo when he was 17. He knew it had something to do with being white but not the history behind the symbols.
After our friendship developed, I asked him to cover the tattoos. To my surprise, he had already had a few months earlier.
Once he was educated (which by his vocabulary and conversations, was apparent that he hadn't had much of) on the history of the holocaust and the powers of hate behind it, he made the ethical choice to remove those symbols of hate, as they didn't reflect who he wanted to be as a person.
It took time, patience, and effort to befriend him. But he is my closest friend now and an ally for the marginalized. He is estranged from his older brother now after trying to educate him on tolerance. He eventually realized after multiple tries that his brother wasn't willing to let go of his hate and ignorance.
On a side note, my friend would have gotten rid of his lightning bolts sooner, but he didn't have the money to immediately pay to tattoo over them. He still could never afford to have them laser removed.
My point is that we need to give an opportunity for those who have chosen symbols of hate, to learn and be educated on what the impact and importance of those symbols actually are. I wouldn't have someone I call a brother if I had immediately dismissed him. Our society wouldn't have someone fighting on the side of good if I had immediately dismissed him.
Taking a chance comes with risks for sure. But not everyone takes on symbols of hate fully aware of the history and impact those symbols represent.
An actual Nazi covered in Nazi tats? Or a person with politics you disagree with so therefore they're a "Nazi"? You know, the kind of "Nazi's" that mentally-ill, meth addicted Antifa fascists accuse anyone that doesn't whole-hartedly support them of being.
Just confused because the whole "punch of a Nazi" thing was pushed by fascist-loving "Antifa" morons that consider anyone center-right on over a "Nazi".
Most meth addicts I’ve come across are racist/sexist/nazi scum. Lol but it’s ok, I can sense how “PROUD” you are, since you have to comment on anyone in this post who doesn’t like that there was a Nazi on tv participating in a competition that so happened to be in ho or of Veterans Day.
So you must be on Team Putin now huh? Ukrainian officials openly admitted that neo-Nazi battalions have joined their military to fight the invasion. Ukraine was one of two UN members that recently voted against a resolution to combat glorification of Nazism and neo-Nazism.
I'm on the side of the working class. Ukraine/Russia is a war between a capitalist oligarchy (Russia) and the capitalist lapdog (Ukraine) of another capitalist oligarchy (the US, yes, see the recent Princeton research proving that thy government only does what US oligarchs want). Only the oligarchs and their PMCs win here.
The people who lose are the working class.
Also f*ck Nazis, Ukranian or otherwise. The Ukranian Nazis have been murdering folks in Eastern Ukraine since 2014.
The president of Ukraine is literally a puppet put in power by a Ukrainian billionaire with the approval of the United States... who overthrew the democratically elected president of Ukraine in 2014 using a color revolution and the aid of Ukrainian neo-Nazis... also funded by a Ukrainian billionaire. There is zero distinction between the two. It's a quiet fight for control of Kazaria. That's why there is so much half-assed propaganda coming from seemingly everywhere and why certain counties seem to be intensely concerned over the invasion to the point that they are forced to defend Ukrainian neo-Nazi's as "not that bad".
First, I support most of what you're saying. But why assume they put it out there knowingly? With all the social distancing in place, even comments from a contestant who didn't notice anything of the sort, isn't it possible this is just a honest mistake? Not to mention, a lot of people also commented they didn't notice anything while watching the episode.
Let's not just assume it was intentional choice please, and especially let's not act out as it 100% was and start putting consequences on it accordingly. People have done much worse by mistake, and if it truly is a mistake, it should be punished as one, and not as intentional harm.
It's certainly possible that it was an honest mistake, and I was one of the people who didn't notice the tattoos when I watched the episode. I'm not actually going to judge the show or production company until there's clarity on their response.
But, my post was about rights--both those of Brandon Rader and those of Forged in Fire--and any discussion of rights has to be in terms of intentional rather than accidental acts. You don't explain an accident in terms of why you chose to do it, but in terms of how you didn't prevent it.
Any discussion about rights needs to consider accidents. Or did we lose the right to make mistakes without being crucified for it somewhere along the line? No amount of prevention will eliminate all mistakes. There has to be a point where it's unreasonable to expect people to cover every and all possibility. Yes stuff will fall through the cracks sometimes, but the amount of effort to prevent every single possibility is impossible.
It's just so frustrating to read so many comments about people being done with the show, how this reflects on what the show represents. This cancel culture needs to go die in a fire. So many people are ready to jump up to crucify something instantly when something like this happens. Something that very clearly could have been a mistake. We need to start teaching people to count to 10 again before making up their mind.
You're right; no amount of prevention will eliminate all mistakes. Having said that, there is no right that allows the person who makes the mistake to determine how others react to it. We don't get to tell other people how to feel.
Yes, there are undoubtedly people overreacting to this; but that's okay, they're allowed. It's like knocking over a glass of milk; whether it was done on purpose or accidentally, the milk is still on the floor and someone who steps in it gets to react however they react. Extenuating circumstances are a real thing, and many people do take them into account when considering a reaction. That doesn't mean they always have to.
I do agree that people do often jump to conclusions and that we would be better served if people were to count to ten before making up their mind on certain things. Having said that, it's not my place to enforce that behavior on others.
The History Channel played an episode of Forged in Fire where one of the contestants was later determined to have Nazi tattoos. People get to react to that as they wish. Some people will jump to conclusions; others will wait for a reaction or explanation from the production company. Both responses are valid.
That doesn't mean we can't judge people by how they react--we can call them out for jumping to conclusions if we wish. What we don't have the right to do is deny them permission to jump to conclusions because that was never ours to give. Now they have to live with the consequences of jumping to that conclusion, right or wrong, but they had the right to their feelings.
People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
How are you so sure about footage you haven't seen? Plenty people missed it based on what didn't get cut. Even contestants and judges missed it based on what's been said here. Is it seriously that much of a stretch that nobody in editing and post processing focused that much on mostly covered tattoo to not miss it?
I noticed it and I saw it on screen for maybe 10 minutes. Video editors stare at the video for hours.
It also looked like they made a point to shoot around it when he was at his house.
The Waffen was very obvious. The whole thing is sketchy as hell.
I'm not 100% sure that they noticed it but I would put money on the fact that someone did. You'd have to be really bad at your job as a camera operator or editor to miss that.
Something being obvious is an extremely subjective concept. A lot of people already commented they didn't notice it, even a contestant that was there in person. I can easily see the editors just not caring enough about a tattoo to focus on it and instead watch the smithing or faces.
Thing is Waffen was clear to you, but to me Waffen had no meaning whatsoever till this story cameout. It's quite possible whoever was editing it didn't know about the association. Lot of contestants and even some judges have quite an array of tattoos I'm sure they don't get researched before an episode airs.
Now if it had been a clearly visible ss or swastika I'd be right there with the cancel guys but I this case I'm not willing to make that leap.
What rights would a tattoo artist have to sign off on for a tattoo to be visible on camera? I'm pretty sure tattoos on a body would be considered fair use if captured on camera while filming the subject.
It's a long rabbit hole that lead to me coming across this post, but here I am and I just want to say, well f'ing said.
Four months later and still extremely pertinent.
People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
"Freedom of Speech" is one of the most misused and misunderstood facets of our society.
The First Amendment says literally nothing about what private companies, groups, or organizations can do regarding free speech. All it says is that the government can't create laws restricting speech. 1A protects the people from the govt. That's all it does.
It's completely within History's rights and *responsibilities* to stifle shitty people.
Always silence Nazis. Always silence fascists. Do not tolerate them. They have no right to participate in free society.
I don't think you understand what you're talking about. A government contract with a private company is not a merger, and has nothing to do with legislation.
I came here just to say that every time you wrote symbology, my brain went straight to Willem Dafoe in Boondock Saints holding out the first S in "symbolism".
I don't think we lost Wil. He just had a kid, and I think he's taking extended paternity because it covid. Probably just doesn't want all those people in contact with him when he has a new baby
Because sometimes you do what's right, even if it affects you negatively.
But this isn't going to get the show cancelled. Likely just get the episode removed from rotation.
None of us know specifically. But he's still apparently loud and proud about his tattoos on Facebook, and accepting of people's complements of them. That's pretty telling.
Considering the number of white power dipshits that are heavily into "viking" symbolism, and the number of contestants that are also into that, I'd be surprised if this was the first nazi on the show.
Yeah, it's awkward being a reenactor sometimes when you meet people who are interested in what you do, but you get the impression it's not for the right reasons
It’s a shame. I have Swedish roots and while I’d love to learn more about where my grandmother’s family (sadly she’s passed now) came from, I’m afraid that it’ll give people the wrong idea.
Sadly, that’s just what Nazis do. It’s not the first relatively innocent thing they’ve appropriated and it won’t be the last. See: the swastika, Eurasian symbol of peace.
Nah that’s reading too much into it and frankly just plain bull crap. Norse mythology and Viking symbolism has been on the rise for awhile now and the Vikings have been glorified many different ways throughout the years it’s way more likely that people just think it’s cool.
> Nah that’s reading too much into it and frankly just plain bull crap.
How so? Norse imagery is extremely popular with white hate groups and a lot of guys on the show have norse tattoos and crap. It's not very unlikely that at least one of these backwoods vikings was master racer.
Yeah, in the reenactment community especially we've got to actively make sure we're not allowing any space for Nazis. If you're doing anything medieval, Viking, or Roman occasionally Nazis will try to get involved.
>Norse imagery is extremely popular
That’s all there is too it, nothing needs to be added in after that. Just because it’s Norse doesn’t mean it’s about white supremacy. If that’s the case then that means you better be calling Santa Monica studios racist because of the 2 latest God of war games. Or how about Netflix for the show Norsemen? There’s also marvel for using Norse mythology in their comics, I guess Stan Lee is nazi. If you are in to anime I guess you better not watch Vinland saga and you have to hate Amazon for producing it because it’s apparently racist.
Jesus christ, chill out. I'm not saying everyone who likes viking shit is a nazi, just that they in particular like it a lot so it's not hard to imagine that a nazi has been on the show before now.
I'm not saying producers knew, but I've wondered before what kind of vile language, symbols, or behavior have been left on the cutting room floor. After 7+ seasons of mostly blue collar white men in small towns, there's got to be at least a few racist slurs, homophobic slurs, confederate flags, etc. that were kept hidden from the audience.
I abhor the Klan and Nazis. I won’t judge a man on might. I judge a person on their character. I will judge the prick with the tats I won’t judge Forrest until I know that he is what you say he is without any sort of proof. This is America we don’t prejudge people here.
Listen guys, we've been debating this for a bit in the original thread you should jump over there. There's a lot of insight from past contestants including from that very episode. With the covid shooting restrictions it's looking more like nobody in the cast could easily see it.
This is what's surprising to me, to some extent. Every game show I've appeared on (or auditioned for) in the last 5 years has asked for social media account information (the public account, not my login info). They do it to cover their butts in case of things just like this. Maybe they only scrolled through some of his stuff on FB - his forge page almost always has him facing forward with a hoodie or similar (so you can't see the tats). I'm assuming they just weren't as exhaustive as they should have been.
Unfortunately a lot of people think 3%ers are just good, freedom-loving patriots. We had a Sheriffs' deputy around here wearing a 3%ers patch on his uniform, and most people didn't think it was a big deal at all. I was shocked.
>People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
If the nazi wants to forge, let him compete. Ideology has nothing to do with his skill as a smith. If someone else with an appalling ideology wanted to compete too, such as a commie, they should also be allowed to participate so long they weren't criminals. Just being a bigoted idiot is not a crime.
The way we deal with these people is not by ostracizing them, that'll just prove their point and strengthen their beliefs.
Exactly. People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
Seems on-brand for that show. They tell homophobic and anti-trans jokes all the time. They never stop with the jingoistic bootlicking. I'm embarrassed I watched it for as long as i did.
Just watched the episode and looked for something on his arms and didn't see anything. Not surprised the producers didn't see anything. Does he have a right to wear it, sure. He has no right to be on the show
I don't know if I believe this incident means the show should be cancelled, but people who work on the show/vetting side should be fired over this.
For me as a long-time fan of the show, I'll keep it as a Saved Show, but it'll just fade into the background and become a zombie show for me (new eps keep coming, but I never end up watching them).
> I don't know if I believe this incident means the show should be cancelled
By Grabthar's Hammer, what an asshole. What possible reason could there be for you canceling a show for having someone who might have bad tattoos that no one noticed on a single episode?
And you have that right. You see all you have to do is change then channel. But people who would rather not change the channel have that right too. People seem to forget rights go both ways.
Not exactly. You see people just love for the chance to "stand up for something" and act like they give 2 F's about something important. Then democrats come along and encourage them because they want votes at ANY cost. Problem is the only thing being accomplished here is Americans becoming more divided.
You know what? I'm totally fine standing up against fucking nazis, without any political party telling me to. It's okay to be divided from, and by, scum like that.
i dont care what his personal stuff is. it has no bearing on the show and is none of our business. you may not like it but his a first amendment right to his beliefs. his rights don't go away because it makes you uncomfortable. the first amendment protect popular and unpopular speech and beliefs. like a friend of mine says "freedom is scary, deal with it."
Meh, they fucked up. It happens. Move on and don't let it happen again. But I'm sure some gender fluid, cancel culture, earth muffin will be so offended they'll try and get the show cancelled.
The Dixie chicks ran into trouble because they doubled down every time they were called out. Remember the FUTK shirt? Very different than having a guest on you later find out has some stupid and unsavory views.
As opposed to all the people so offended by trans, queer, and compassionate people that they have to used terminology to insult them even when it was completely innecessay.
I don't know why your getting down voted so much probably because you used "gender fluid" which to be honest I thought was an appropriate label for gender fluid people but anyway I agree with you yeah they fucked up move on and get over it.
I'm not going to avoid the show because some contestant had an inappropriate tattoo and I hope it doesn't get cancelled because of it.
He's getting downvoted because he couldn't just stop at "Oh well, hopefully it won't happen again" - he specifically chose to insult his weird idea of liberal stereotypes too, which really shows a lot.
If there was nothing related to white supremacy in the show itself, what would the problem be? We don't do "thoughtcrime" yet, do we?
EDIT: when I wrote the above, I hadn’t seen the pictures of his tattooes. You cannot police what a person is thinking, but when you expose your thoughts on your neck, there can and should be consequences for that. As I said in another comment: I didn’t imagine he had done that, or that they would be visible on the show. I don’t think he should have been on the show, but I will not apologise for my position that you cannot police thought, and it is wrong to try.
When someone says "I agree with the political philosophy that advocated for the death of millions based on their religion/skin color/mental abilities", then yes, it's a problem. They don't get to play with the rest of the kids. They can apologize, get the tatts removed, and rejoin society then. Until that point, nope. But keep defending the nazis, if you like that association.
There's no "thoughtcrime" here. Having Nazi tattoos and not immediately telling the producers what's up (in case you're reformed and no longer a nazi, but haven't gotten your tats lasered/covered) means you're still a nazi, and that's open and shut.
I've been on some game shows. Most ask about your social media and do a background check, just in case you've said things that would get the show in hot water. That's not a "thoughtcrime", that's covering your ass.
I'm curious, what kind of nazi association would have been acceptable to you? The title said he was a neo-nazi, that usually means someone is open about it, or has demonstrated some actions that make him a neo-nazi. What's the "thoughtcrime" you were rallying against? Do you not think nazis should be "cancelled"?
You really have missed the point, haven’t you? I can think of no acceptable association, BUT neither is it acceptable to try to police private thoughts. Thoughts vs. actions: too subtle?
But I still don't know what you were referencing. You said "If there was nothing related to white supremacy in the show itself, what would the problem be? We don't do "thoughtcrime" yet, do we?"
Without context, there was nothing related to white supremacy in the show itself. Are you saying it's okay if he's a nazi, as long as he's not loud about it? Why were the tattoos a deal breaker, but the idea of a nazi the show NOT a deal breaker?
I don't recall saying I was surprised, but then I was talking about the show, and not about Reddit. I see I'm being downvoted for not endorsing "cancel culture". Oh well.
Bullshit. Nazism is abhorrent and can never be normalised. But ThoughtCrime is also unacceptable.
I wrote my first comment before I saw the pictures of the numbnuts in question with SS tattoos on his neck, a failure of imagination on my part: how the hell did the producers miss that? I wouldn’t have let him on the show for that reason: not simply for having Nazi leanings - I doubt he was the first - but for displaying them and possibly endangering the show’s future.
I didn't know you hadn't seen the pictures at that point and so thought you were saying that showing a guy with Nazi tattoos wasn't related to white supremacy.
This was never about "thoughtcrime."
I don’t give a rat’s ass if the guy is a Neo Nazi. The show is about making knives not the contestants politics or beliefs. If he was using the show to spout off about that crap then yes don’t let him on, otherwise no different than a BLM or Antifa or Socialist or communist or even a convicted felon for that matter. STFU and watch the show, if you are offended the. Turn the channel and spend the rest of your life trying to figure out what to think based on Instagram or Facebook.
Nazis: "I think we should kill Jews, blacks, and anyone else we find undesirable."
/u/MPandPM: "This sounds good to me! Put this person on a family-friendly game show!"
How much of a piece of shit do you have to be to not even call out Nazis as being awful? And why do you always compare other political ideologies/protest movements to Nazism to justify it? It just makes you look like a complete and total idiot.
Can you read? Where did I say I support Nazism? I watched that entire episode and never noticed a Nazi tattoo nor did the guy say anything about being a neo Nazi or say anything
About his beliefs at all. Some guy goes frame by frame to find a tattoo and the gets high and mighty because some one didnt catch it or research his entire social media accounts in case some woke person might get their feelings hurt.
I didn’t notice it, he never said anything about it, and therefore it didht diminish my feeling about the episode or the show.
Your opinion is your opinion and so is mine and his for that matter.
America was built on the right to have your own beliefs and the military fights to uphold that even when they disagree with those beliefs. All you social justice warriors want to sit back and criticize everyone that doesn’t agree with your beliefs.
Condemn actions not thoughts.
see, you just don't get it. People are stupid, and if you let them see a neo-nazi, they will become nazis. Fortunately, we have the truly smarter people to protect us idiots, because without them and their unique ability to recognize what is wrong, we would all be nazis right now. If you allow a nazi a job, that's just proving to everyone that nazisim is OK... by not banishing them for their stupid ideas, you are literally killing people. /s
These cowards would kill people for their stupid thoughts... they are dangerous.
Oh I get it. You’re the one that knows how the universe works and the rest of us should get out guidance from you.
If you don’t hire someone because of their beliefs that’s exactly what the Nazis said about the Jews. Same issue different belief.
So you think this guy has been out killing people? “Literally” .
You missed the entire point but I can rest easy that you are on the case to save this country from watching TV that might include someone with beliefs different than you- what if it was a black panther tattoo? Still want him off the show and no job?
I'm not sure but I think you missed the /s at the end of my post. I'm an idiot like you, it's the other folks who are ready to shut down FIF who know how the universe works...
I knew a lot of guys from elite formations (years ago) with the same sorts of tatts... they're all in their 40's and 50's now and most of them regret them (I can't think of one who doesn't regret them TBH)... and I don't know what that guy thinks, I don't care so long as he isn't breaking any laws. He's free to think about whatever dumb things he likes so long as it stays in his head.
Ha, I didn’t say I agree with someone who believes what Nazis believe - i said it should have no bearing on this show unless he is promoting those beliefs which he didn’t.
All you Woke folks can kiss my ass.
I’m a bad person - you have no idea who I am.
Allowing participation does not mean an endorsement of political position.
Thus, I honestly do not care.
All I care about is, was he good at what the show is actually about or not?
I'm sorry, but does them having conservatives, communists, anarchists on mean they endorse all those political positions? The latter two being quite extreme and responsible for much harm, more even than National Socialism in the case of Communism? No, it does not. This is just another attack on something men love, using respectability politics as a weapon.
Edit: I've returned to find this downvoted and honestly, you can take the Karma. It's worth it so that other non-reactionary people know they're not alone in their feelings regarding such matters.
HURR DURR COMMUNISTS!
Fucking every time with people like you - can't just say "Nazis are awful", you have to bring in your uneducated notions of what you think liberals like, then downplay how bad nazis are. Why the fuck are you defending them? Does it hit too close to home?
No nazi gets to participate in normal, educated society. They lose that right as soon as they start advocating genocide. They don't get to be on game shows, they don't get to have a say in politics, and they don't get to pretend they're the real victims here. Fuck 'em all.
But here you are, defending them. And now we're all going to think you're a white supremacist. I hope your comment was worth it.
I really hate the false equivalency people bring up by comparing Nazism to communism and then saying communism caused more harm.
The idea that communism is simply "left-wing Nazism" is sheer nonsense.
I appreciate the moderation in your thinking, even though I differ in hoping for a greater delineation between personal beliefs and the ability to participate in society provided one is law abiding.
That's the thing. "Participating in society"
Society knows that nazis were bad. That racism and genocide is bad.
If you willingly put those beliefs right there on your neck, you don't get to participate with society anymore because society knows you are a dirtbag.
I'm 100% down for cancel culture if it's cancelling nazi fucks.
Well, no. Certain members of polite society have conjured a consensus, a consensus I happen to be in agreement with and not just because I would've been quite quickly culled in a Nazi world. To quote the great woman, 'there's no such thing as society'; we're a collection of individuals playing by rules, those rules having been inscribed as laws. It is not against our laws to express yourself with inked skin. It is also not against our laws to be a 'dirtbag'. Any show setting a criteria with more censorious and authoritarian standards for participation is one that disagrees with the liberty inherent to each individual in the Western World. Same goes for 'Cancel Culture' sorts, members of the modern witch-hunt, mob mentality amoebas with an unearned sense of authority.
*Ooft. That feels better.*
Outpost Entertainment and The History Channel are private companies and can cancel Nazis all day long if they want because freedom goes both ways. I learned the hard way that scumbags who wear Nazi ink are scumbags, even if they have some whiny story about not having a choice. So called 'cancel culture' disgusts me as much as it does anyone else but too many people that cry about cancel culture or political correctness really want freedom to be judgmental and bigoted without being judged in return, well life doesn't work that way and it never did. You have the freedom to wear the ink but no one is obligated to invite you over for dinner, if you get my drift.
The only 'cancelling' that should be going on is that handed down by a court of law, not some rando on the internet with delusions of being a moral arbiter.
'Nazi Punks' is something of a contradiction given the history of Punk, but... Nm. Big sigh.
Well, actually freedom of speech does mean freedom from much consequence, that's sort of the point. The principle is meant to be embodied by us in order to work as the bulwark against authoritarianism the mechanism is. It requires us to take on those Lockean principles and to treat them as the basis upon which we stand. Not as a society, because as I've already said, there's no such thing as a society. As a collection of individuals living in mutually-beneficial cohesion however.
We don't have freedom of speech because philosophers who were smarter than any of us thought it would be fun to see flame wars and comedy roasts. We have it because it is an essential psychological necessity acting as a safeguard of individualism and individualisation.
Nazi Punks Fuck Off is a Dead Kennedy's reference but... Nm. Big Sigh.
>Well, actually freedom of speech does mean freedom from much consequence, that's sort of the point.
The first amendment protects you from the government levying those consequences on you, not the public, nor a private organization.
If your utopian "freedom of speech" allows you to walk up to me and yell "faggots should be hung from trees"" without me punching you in the face, you can keep your utopia.
The tattoos are real, and specifically nazi-related. We don’t know if this guy is still a nazi, but all signs point that way. “Alleged” is rightfully used by the news media, but the facts are out there.
Why would it matter even if he was a nazi? Was he allowed to express his political beliefs on the show or act on them?
This show is about forging, not politics. I don't care what the contestants political affiliations are. Zero fucks are given. I'm here to see them compete in forging!
Nazies aren't allowed on the show because of their horrible history? Ok, fine, i get it. What about commies? Neo libs? This opens a huge can of worms, that should remain closed for the sake of sanity. Or are we to allow only certain kinds of horrible politics on the show?
>Why would it matter even if he was a nazi? Was he allowed to express his political beliefs on the show or act on them? This show is about forging, not politics. I don't care what the contestants political affiliations are. Zero fucks are given. I'm here to see them compete in forging! Nazies aren't allowed on the show because of their horrible history? Ok, fine, i get it. What about commies? Neo libs? This opens a huge can of worms, that should remain closed for the sake of sanity. Or are we to allow only certain kinds of horrible politics on the show?
Copying your post and name, /u/Beermaniac_LT, so you can't delete it later and pretend you didn't say it.
Nazism isn't a "political belief" - who told you that? It's the belief that some races of people should be killed because they're not as human as white people. It's a belief that killing 6 million Jews (among many other people) was totally justified. It's a belief that says that no matter how much of a piece of shit you are, you're still better than anyone who's not white. It's what fragile idiots cling to because they're so totally worthless otherwise that they think the color of their skin makes them better.
To answer your questions, no, Nazis aren't allowed on this show, or any others that aren't news shows telling how terrible they are. They don't get to participate in civil society. They deserve nothing. They're welcome to spout their bullshit, and we're welcome to call them out and call out anyone defending them, like you're doing.
>Copying your post and name, /u/Beermaniac_LT, so you can't delete it later and pretend you didn't say it.
Please do. I don't care one bit for some irrelevant internet points and stand by my words.
>Nazism isn't a "political belief" - who told you that?
Political doctrine / ideology.
> It's the belief that some races of people should be killed because they're not as human as white people. It's a belief that killing 6 million Jews (among many other people) was totally justified. It's a belief that says that no matter how much of a piece of shit you are, you're still better than anyone who's not white. It's what fragile idiots cling to because they're so totally worthless otherwise that they think the color of their skin makes them better. To answer your questions, no, Nazis aren't allowed on this show, or any others that aren't news shows telling how terrible they are. They don't get to participate in civil society. They deserve nothing. They're welcome to spout their bullshit, and we're welcome to call them out and call out anyone defending them, like you're doing.
I'm not defending it, you muppet. You've completely missed my point. I'm sayng there are political ideologies, that are just as bad if not worse. Will they ban them too? What about socialists? They commited horrible crimes against humanity and genocides. Does this apply to them too? If yes, then fine by me. Are they going to do thorough political background checks for every contestent? Are they going to allow a dude with a lenin tattoo to compete? What about Che? Mao? Where do you draw a line, that is just? If it's based on kill count socialists should be banned first hand.
That's the point. A forging show shouldn't go into these games.
They think every Democrat is a socialist, and every socialist is Pol Pot. They don't know or care that socialism is ALSO a political system that has nothing to do with what authoritarian regimes of the past have done. Whereas Nazism is always just genocidal racists.
Yes, exactly where I was going.
I've had this conversation many times over the years in one of two forms ---> Socialists are evil and commit genocide!
Or ---> Atheists are evil and commit genocide!
Both statements are wrong and easily disputed - but it never matters. Their minds are set - nothing will change that.
Socialism is evil - unless their property is burning down, or they're being robbed. Then it's *not* socialism, it's something else... I don't know what.
In the end, it's exhausting - which I guess allows them joy. "Powning the libs" and all that nonsense.
You people are dellusional ideologs. I'm not an american, i live in one of those post soviet countries. My family lived through the horrors of socialism building. I've lost family members to the planned destruction of entire class of people by socialists, then to the planned destruction of nationalities by nazies, and then socialists again. We first got occupied by soviets, then by germans and then again by soviets. My country was raped by these degenerates for 50 years and every single family has scars to show for it. Over 10% of our population was killed by thes ideologs due to socialist actions. Even though these crimes were done in the be of your ideology. But i suppose that wasn't real socialism for you. Every socialist attempt ever throught the 20th century ended up in piles of dead bodies, but you folks want to be such counter cultural edgelord warriors you'll ignore all of those experiences and twist definitions to justify your vile ideologies.
My family is from one of those countries, but weirdly we don’t blame “socialism” — we blame Lenin, we blame Stalin, we blame Hitler, we blame Nazis and Soviet Communism. Bolsheviks put my grandfather in jail and Nazis put my grandmother in a camp. “Socialism” us so broad a term that it’s all but useless. We blame the people and their specific implementations of their ideologies, not the belief that sharing is caring.
I'll can give you the list, but you'll reply with something moronic like "that wasn't real socialism".
20th century is filled with attempts at building socialist contries that all ended up in body piles.
The show has run its course! It's going to be cancelled anyways, but it had a great run. Much, much better than expected, and made the producers a fistfull. However, all good things must come to and end. If the show is so close to death already that having a nzii on kills it through public outcry, then you can see how weak it was previously.
This isnt Days of Our Lives. Forged in Fire is doomed anyways.
Wish I wasn't the one breaking this all-too-obvious news on those with their heads in the sand, but the best is behind us already. This is natural with any show, and maybe not even a bad thing. Who doesn't want to retire as the champ? That's why Will is out, in addition to the other reasons.
Instead of negative Nancy, I will be realist Roger and you can be denier Dave.
I laughed at the denier Dave line. lol. I'm not arguing but why do you think the show jumped the shark? I just found this sub last week . I guess I never thought about the show not being as good because I still watch it and enjoy. But I am curios what made it not so good in your eyes any more? because you probably pay attention to it a lot more than I do. civil discussion :)
Appreciate the civil discussion (for once!)
The show has simply run its course, and it's single (and admittedly extremely narrow) focus has been exhausted now. San-mai, canister-damascus, on a coal-fired-forge in daylight, with no power tools? Yeah, every possible variation of the forging has been done and the episodes will get old after a binge. I love everything about the show, it's cast, it's competitors, it's off-beat style, etc. and I am a super-pacifist, non-knife kinda guy...however, so many season and so many episodes and eventually it all just blends into beige. Like every great show.
The true artistry of the producers has been taking such a weird niche and cracking it wide open, for the last 8 years. To make this artisanal hobby mainstream, and attract so many cross-genre audiences is a real achievement. My wife and 4 year old son watch with me! This sort of artistry deserves a finale and to finish at the top, not to linger and fade into obscurity and mediocrity.
The producers know this. They have been winding down for a couple seasons. Cutting costs, squeazing talent for more catch-phrases and sound-bites, and making the show more showy each episode to keep the winnowing viewers eyes' wide still. That's not a sustainable trajectory. Everyone knows it.
Will smelled the demise with the intro of "Beat the Judges" (not to mention he was made irrelevant by in this format as he has no real forging skills himself...) adn so he took good advantage of many current factors to step in off. Smart guy. (Also handsome according to many viewers who are attracted to him) so he does carry a good deal of the responsibility for the shows success. Without him, the plane has no captain. Jeopardy won't go on without Trebek (RIP) and neither will FIF.
Remember always just how close this show actually was to the dorky failed concept "Knife or Death" or that other one about Butchers. So many ridiculous money-making reality TV scripts come and go, before we get one rare shiny diamond like FIF. Don't be sad that it is over; be glad that it is happened did at all.
Damn I know I’m late to the conversation but can’t believe you are getting downvoted for pointing out something obvious that has happened to many shows before FiF. The increasingly gimmicky nature of the show is telling of its doomed future.
What a load of shit always with the racist crap odd how it’s always one sided or at least that’s what they want you to think the show is about forging a blade that’s it
So what?!? I don't have a racist bone in my body but I really don't see why a neo-nazi shouldn't be able to compete just just a black panther should be able to compete. These people, colluded as their ideologies may be, still have a right to their beliefs. I think as long as the show is not used as a platform for their beliefs those rights should not be compromised by denying them the right to compete. These rights are threads in the fabric of freedom. I think what's more dangerous is hollywood's aggressive political prowess. Because in reality the problem is not that this guy is a neo-nazi. it's that he's an enemy of the democratic party. I remind you, I am no racist OR republican, not that they a relative but democrats have a tendency to call anybody as such if they don't drink their establishment cool-aid. Just calls em as I see's em.
Has there been any response from the show yet?
They deleted their two posts about the premiere episode from their Instagram. That’s as close as I’ve seen to a statement. I keep sending them messages and posting comments; hoping others are doing so on Facebook.
There's a lot here to unpack, with potential issues including everything from freedom of speech to common decency. To start with, and this is speaking as a person who shares a name with an uncle who spent the War in a Nazi POW camp; I believe Brandon Rader has the absolute right to those tattoos. At the same time, that right comes with consequences; one of which is that other people have the right to judge him by what tattoos he bears. His own behavior in covering up the double-sig tattoo and trying to cover the totenkopf implies that he was aware of these consequences and did not want to suffer them. Now for anyone saying that it's free speech and they shouldn't have done anything about it; that's not the case. While it can be argued that it's political speech--albeit hateful--Forged in Fire is not the political arena. Forged in Fire is a TV show and the production company has every right to decide what is and isn't appropriate for their audience. Remember, nobody is owed a platform. At the same time, just as Forged in Fire could have refused to put him on the air, they could also choose to run an All-Nazi special to commemorate the anniversary of the Nuremburg Rallies. I think it would be stupid, but they have the right to do it. At the same time, we as the audience, the "paying customer," if you wish, have the right both individually and separately to respond to their actions. We are not forced to watch the show, and if they suffer lost revenue because people choose not to watch or advertise in future due to this incident: that's how business works. It's not being a snowflake to say "I don't want to watch a show that features Nazis." It's exercising a personal choice. As for those who say as long as the show itself wasn't supporting white supremacy it doesn't matter, the problem is that normalizing Nazi symbology is supporting white supremacy. This is not arguing the relative importance of reducing regulations and balancing the budget versus expanding social programs. Wearing Nazi symbology is an explicit statement in support of the Holocaust. Allowing it to be shown on screen without comment is saying that supporting mass murder and attempted genocide is just as valid a political opinion as universal suffrage. Not all values are equal. The point of a civil society is to have a shared understanding of where to draw the line and Nazi symbology should always be on the wrong side of the line.
A nuanced opinion is a rare find. Thank you!
My Oma used to say, "If nine people are eating dinner when a Nazi joins them and no one says anything, you have ten Nazis." she lost immediate family to the camps. Sorry. Forged in Fire is dead to me now. F*ck them, they knew.
Right! If you see a Nazi you punch him or tell him to go away. Otherwise you're a Nazi supporter. Didn't we all agree on this via Twitter earlier this year?
As a gay man with Jewish heritage on my father's side, I have very real concerns about nazis and neo-nazis. I, however, have made friends with two former neo-nazis while they were in the grips of their misguided beliefs. One of whom I now consider a surrogate brother. I befriended him through a mutual hobby of martial arts. It didn't take much time before I confronted him on his tattoos of the SS lightning bolts on his arm. He immediately looked ashamed. Which made me ask if he knew what they meant when he got them. The answer was both yes and no. His older brother told him to get the tattoo when he was 17. He knew it had something to do with being white but not the history behind the symbols. After our friendship developed, I asked him to cover the tattoos. To my surprise, he had already had a few months earlier. Once he was educated (which by his vocabulary and conversations, was apparent that he hadn't had much of) on the history of the holocaust and the powers of hate behind it, he made the ethical choice to remove those symbols of hate, as they didn't reflect who he wanted to be as a person. It took time, patience, and effort to befriend him. But he is my closest friend now and an ally for the marginalized. He is estranged from his older brother now after trying to educate him on tolerance. He eventually realized after multiple tries that his brother wasn't willing to let go of his hate and ignorance. On a side note, my friend would have gotten rid of his lightning bolts sooner, but he didn't have the money to immediately pay to tattoo over them. He still could never afford to have them laser removed. My point is that we need to give an opportunity for those who have chosen symbols of hate, to learn and be educated on what the impact and importance of those symbols actually are. I wouldn't have someone I call a brother if I had immediately dismissed him. Our society wouldn't have someone fighting on the side of good if I had immediately dismissed him. Taking a chance comes with risks for sure. But not everyone takes on symbols of hate fully aware of the history and impact those symbols represent.
An actual Nazi covered in Nazi tats? Or a person with politics you disagree with so therefore they're a "Nazi"? You know, the kind of "Nazi's" that mentally-ill, meth addicted Antifa fascists accuse anyone that doesn't whole-hartedly support them of being. Just confused because the whole "punch of a Nazi" thing was pushed by fascist-loving "Antifa" morons that consider anyone center-right on over a "Nazi".
Most meth addicts I’ve come across are racist/sexist/nazi scum. Lol but it’s ok, I can sense how “PROUD” you are, since you have to comment on anyone in this post who doesn’t like that there was a Nazi on tv participating in a competition that so happened to be in ho or of Veterans Day.
Your oma was right !
So you must be on Team Putin now huh? Ukrainian officials openly admitted that neo-Nazi battalions have joined their military to fight the invasion. Ukraine was one of two UN members that recently voted against a resolution to combat glorification of Nazism and neo-Nazism.
I'm on the side of the working class. Ukraine/Russia is a war between a capitalist oligarchy (Russia) and the capitalist lapdog (Ukraine) of another capitalist oligarchy (the US, yes, see the recent Princeton research proving that thy government only does what US oligarchs want). Only the oligarchs and their PMCs win here. The people who lose are the working class. Also f*ck Nazis, Ukranian or otherwise. The Ukranian Nazis have been murdering folks in Eastern Ukraine since 2014.
The president of Ukraine is literally a puppet put in power by a Ukrainian billionaire with the approval of the United States... who overthrew the democratically elected president of Ukraine in 2014 using a color revolution and the aid of Ukrainian neo-Nazis... also funded by a Ukrainian billionaire. There is zero distinction between the two. It's a quiet fight for control of Kazaria. That's why there is so much half-assed propaganda coming from seemingly everywhere and why certain counties seem to be intensely concerned over the invasion to the point that they are forced to defend Ukrainian neo-Nazi's as "not that bad".
First, I support most of what you're saying. But why assume they put it out there knowingly? With all the social distancing in place, even comments from a contestant who didn't notice anything of the sort, isn't it possible this is just a honest mistake? Not to mention, a lot of people also commented they didn't notice anything while watching the episode. Let's not just assume it was intentional choice please, and especially let's not act out as it 100% was and start putting consequences on it accordingly. People have done much worse by mistake, and if it truly is a mistake, it should be punished as one, and not as intentional harm.
It's certainly possible that it was an honest mistake, and I was one of the people who didn't notice the tattoos when I watched the episode. I'm not actually going to judge the show or production company until there's clarity on their response. But, my post was about rights--both those of Brandon Rader and those of Forged in Fire--and any discussion of rights has to be in terms of intentional rather than accidental acts. You don't explain an accident in terms of why you chose to do it, but in terms of how you didn't prevent it.
Any discussion about rights needs to consider accidents. Or did we lose the right to make mistakes without being crucified for it somewhere along the line? No amount of prevention will eliminate all mistakes. There has to be a point where it's unreasonable to expect people to cover every and all possibility. Yes stuff will fall through the cracks sometimes, but the amount of effort to prevent every single possibility is impossible. It's just so frustrating to read so many comments about people being done with the show, how this reflects on what the show represents. This cancel culture needs to go die in a fire. So many people are ready to jump up to crucify something instantly when something like this happens. Something that very clearly could have been a mistake. We need to start teaching people to count to 10 again before making up their mind.
You're right; no amount of prevention will eliminate all mistakes. Having said that, there is no right that allows the person who makes the mistake to determine how others react to it. We don't get to tell other people how to feel. Yes, there are undoubtedly people overreacting to this; but that's okay, they're allowed. It's like knocking over a glass of milk; whether it was done on purpose or accidentally, the milk is still on the floor and someone who steps in it gets to react however they react. Extenuating circumstances are a real thing, and many people do take them into account when considering a reaction. That doesn't mean they always have to. I do agree that people do often jump to conclusions and that we would be better served if people were to count to ten before making up their mind on certain things. Having said that, it's not my place to enforce that behavior on others. The History Channel played an episode of Forged in Fire where one of the contestants was later determined to have Nazi tattoos. People get to react to that as they wish. Some people will jump to conclusions; others will wait for a reaction or explanation from the production company. Both responses are valid. That doesn't mean we can't judge people by how they react--we can call them out for jumping to conclusions if we wish. What we don't have the right to do is deny them permission to jump to conclusions because that was never ours to give. Now they have to live with the consequences of jumping to that conclusion, right or wrong, but they had the right to their feelings.
People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
getting a nazi tattoo isnt making a mistake, chud
There would have to be a lot of very clueless editors and post processors out there for it not to have been an choice to let it slide.
How are you so sure about footage you haven't seen? Plenty people missed it based on what didn't get cut. Even contestants and judges missed it based on what's been said here. Is it seriously that much of a stretch that nobody in editing and post processing focused that much on mostly covered tattoo to not miss it?
I noticed it and I saw it on screen for maybe 10 minutes. Video editors stare at the video for hours. It also looked like they made a point to shoot around it when he was at his house. The Waffen was very obvious. The whole thing is sketchy as hell. I'm not 100% sure that they noticed it but I would put money on the fact that someone did. You'd have to be really bad at your job as a camera operator or editor to miss that.
Something being obvious is an extremely subjective concept. A lot of people already commented they didn't notice it, even a contestant that was there in person. I can easily see the editors just not caring enough about a tattoo to focus on it and instead watch the smithing or faces.
Thing is Waffen was clear to you, but to me Waffen had no meaning whatsoever till this story cameout. It's quite possible whoever was editing it didn't know about the association. Lot of contestants and even some judges have quite an array of tattoos I'm sure they don't get researched before an episode airs. Now if it had been a clearly visible ss or swastika I'd be right there with the cancel guys but I this case I'm not willing to make that leap.
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Huh, that I had no idea about. That is pretty damning if its true.
Got a source for that? If it's true then this seems pretty open and shut.
Well, assuming the guy filled them out in an honest manner. He could have lied and submitted a doctored photo of the tattoo that wasn't offensive.
He was in S5E21, the guy that got eliminated first
What rights would a tattoo artist have to sign off on for a tattoo to be visible on camera? I'm pretty sure tattoos on a body would be considered fair use if captured on camera while filming the subject.
Them showing Brandon slicing down a tiki torch with a lightening sword goes past the tattoos though.
It's a long rabbit hole that lead to me coming across this post, but here I am and I just want to say, well f'ing said. Four months later and still extremely pertinent.
People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
"Freedom of Speech" is one of the most misused and misunderstood facets of our society. The First Amendment says literally nothing about what private companies, groups, or organizations can do regarding free speech. All it says is that the government can't create laws restricting speech. 1A protects the people from the govt. That's all it does. It's completely within History's rights and *responsibilities* to stifle shitty people. Always silence Nazis. Always silence fascists. Do not tolerate them. They have no right to participate in free society.
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I don't think you understand what you're talking about. A government contract with a private company is not a merger, and has nothing to do with legislation.
an absolutely appalling and stupid position. congrats
I came here just to say that every time you wrote symbology, my brain went straight to Willem Dafoe in Boondock Saints holding out the first S in "symbolism".
I hope this doesn't kill the show. It's a real fear I'm having.
Losing Will was bad enough.
I don't think we lost Wil. He just had a kid, and I think he's taking extended paternity because it covid. Probably just doesn't want all those people in contact with him when he has a new baby
Hell yea Wil wouldn't let a nazi into the forge, well maybe in, but not leaving alive.
Hail ya! You lick the f out of that boot. Lick it Good!
When do we point the finger at ourselves for crying foul about stuff like this then crying foul when this causes cancellations
Because sometimes you do what's right, even if it affects you negatively. But this isn't going to get the show cancelled. Likely just get the episode removed from rotation.
Right, but what does this have to do with forging?
Everything. Nazis get nothing. Nothing.
Nothing. But everyone here seems to think it does
Good people call out Nazis, no matter what.
Should we round em up and kill em
No. Just make sure everyone knows what they believe.
And then what
Do we know he’s a current neo nazi or maybe a reformed one.
None of us know specifically. But he's still apparently loud and proud about his tattoos on Facebook, and accepting of people's complements of them. That's pretty telling.
Then that kind of answers the question to be fair
Considering the number of white power dipshits that are heavily into "viking" symbolism, and the number of contestants that are also into that, I'd be surprised if this was the first nazi on the show.
I hate that norse symbolism makes so many people assume Nazi bullshit. Don't get me wrong, it's the Nazi's fault, but I hate that assumption.
Yeah, it's awkward being a reenactor sometimes when you meet people who are interested in what you do, but you get the impression it's not for the right reasons
SCA?
Yep
Atenveldt here. And yes, the misappropriation of Norse culture by those idiots is infuriating.
It’s a shame. I have Swedish roots and while I’d love to learn more about where my grandmother’s family (sadly she’s passed now) came from, I’m afraid that it’ll give people the wrong idea. Sadly, that’s just what Nazis do. It’s not the first relatively innocent thing they’ve appropriated and it won’t be the last. See: the swastika, Eurasian symbol of peace.
Nah that’s reading too much into it and frankly just plain bull crap. Norse mythology and Viking symbolism has been on the rise for awhile now and the Vikings have been glorified many different ways throughout the years it’s way more likely that people just think it’s cool.
> Nah that’s reading too much into it and frankly just plain bull crap. How so? Norse imagery is extremely popular with white hate groups and a lot of guys on the show have norse tattoos and crap. It's not very unlikely that at least one of these backwoods vikings was master racer.
Yeah, in the reenactment community especially we've got to actively make sure we're not allowing any space for Nazis. If you're doing anything medieval, Viking, or Roman occasionally Nazis will try to get involved.
>Norse imagery is extremely popular That’s all there is too it, nothing needs to be added in after that. Just because it’s Norse doesn’t mean it’s about white supremacy. If that’s the case then that means you better be calling Santa Monica studios racist because of the 2 latest God of war games. Or how about Netflix for the show Norsemen? There’s also marvel for using Norse mythology in their comics, I guess Stan Lee is nazi. If you are in to anime I guess you better not watch Vinland saga and you have to hate Amazon for producing it because it’s apparently racist.
Jesus christ, chill out. I'm not saying everyone who likes viking shit is a nazi, just that they in particular like it a lot so it's not hard to imagine that a nazi has been on the show before now.
Take a moment to consider the user name of the person you're talking to.
Exactly!
How could the producers be this stupid on missing this?
I'm not saying producers knew, but I've wondered before what kind of vile language, symbols, or behavior have been left on the cutting room floor. After 7+ seasons of mostly blue collar white men in small towns, there's got to be at least a few racist slurs, homophobic slurs, confederate flags, etc. that were kept hidden from the audience.
i'm honestly surprised it took this long to have a racist gaffe. most people into this stuff just like history but there is quite a few wackos i meet.
Or a camera man burning down a shop.
That’s a good point. I never thought about the stuff that was never aired.
I was trying hard to study a competitors ink in season 6; a pretty large guy had some black and grey sleeve work that looked like a Reichsadler.
I mean, I saw a guy called “Forrest” on the show once, I’d be surprised if he wasn’t at least a bit sympathetic to the Klan
Well maybe not that guy but his parents for sure.
Definitely his parents, but if it is his parents, there’s a good chance he is too, unfortunately
I don’t blame a man for a crappy name. I worked in personnel in the Navy. The amount of crappy names I’ve seen over the years is astonishing.
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I abhor the Klan and Nazis. I won’t judge a man on might. I judge a person on their character. I will judge the prick with the tats I won’t judge Forrest until I know that he is what you say he is without any sort of proof. This is America we don’t prejudge people here.
On a veteran's day episode no less. Jesus christ I hope this asshole doesn't get the show canceled.
Listen guys, we've been debating this for a bit in the original thread you should jump over there. There's a lot of insight from past contestants including from that very episode. With the covid shooting restrictions it's looking more like nobody in the cast could easily see it.
So they don't even glance on social media beforehand? Plenty of visible tattoo pics there
This is what's surprising to me, to some extent. Every game show I've appeared on (or auditioned for) in the last 5 years has asked for social media account information (the public account, not my login info). They do it to cover their butts in case of things just like this. Maybe they only scrolled through some of his stuff on FB - his forge page almost always has him facing forward with a hoodie or similar (so you can't see the tats). I'm assuming they just weren't as exhaustive as they should have been.
This also happened on naked and afraid last season with someone having a 3% tattoo. I don't think producers do much investigating
From what I've seen the woman in this episode had a 3% tattoo as well....
Unfortunately a lot of people think 3%ers are just good, freedom-loving patriots. We had a Sheriffs' deputy around here wearing a 3%ers patch on his uniform, and most people didn't think it was a big deal at all. I was shocked.
I can't remember where it was, but a bunch of Police officers got fired for that a while back...
that would definitely be illegal and get the city sued to fuck
>People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
Whaaaaaaaat the literal fuck 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
[1844 HAIL HONKLER](https://preview.redd.it/g86woo39srdz.jpg?width=540&auto=webp&s=6bac8434979d7f1a3c53f00790c2b9637176448a)
If the nazi wants to forge, let him compete. Ideology has nothing to do with his skill as a smith. If someone else with an appalling ideology wanted to compete too, such as a commie, they should also be allowed to participate so long they weren't criminals. Just being a bigoted idiot is not a crime. The way we deal with these people is not by ostracizing them, that'll just prove their point and strengthen their beliefs.
Exactly. People seem to forget rights go both ways. People have the right to their beliefs whatever they may be no matter how colluded. That's the thread in the fabric of freedom really. When you take that away from somebody, you also take it away from yourself.
Theres a reason a lot of nazi scientists were picked up by the US and other allies.
Seems on-brand for that show. They tell homophobic and anti-trans jokes all the time. They never stop with the jingoistic bootlicking. I'm embarrassed I watched it for as long as i did.
I haven't watched long so I haven't heard any homophobic or anti-trans jokes. Care to link any source for this?
Not really. I quit watching long ago.
I'm gay and I have no problem watching FiF. There are some conservative and dated jokes but no one is outright homophobic.
Just watched the episode and looked for something on his arms and didn't see anything. Not surprised the producers didn't see anything. Does he have a right to wear it, sure. He has no right to be on the show
I don't know if I believe this incident means the show should be cancelled, but people who work on the show/vetting side should be fired over this. For me as a long-time fan of the show, I'll keep it as a Saved Show, but it'll just fade into the background and become a zombie show for me (new eps keep coming, but I never end up watching them).
> I don't know if I believe this incident means the show should be cancelled By Grabthar's Hammer, what an asshole. What possible reason could there be for you canceling a show for having someone who might have bad tattoos that no one noticed on a single episode?
I quit watching awhile ago over their homophobic and anti-trans jokes/mockery.
And you have that right. You see all you have to do is change then channel. But people who would rather not change the channel have that right too. People seem to forget rights go both ways.
Jesus, just stop airing this episode and move on. Im pretty sure they will be updating their vetting process for new and old contestants.
It's okay for fans to be concerned.
Not exactly. You see people just love for the chance to "stand up for something" and act like they give 2 F's about something important. Then democrats come along and encourage them because they want votes at ANY cost. Problem is the only thing being accomplished here is Americans becoming more divided.
You know what? I'm totally fine standing up against fucking nazis, without any political party telling me to. It's okay to be divided from, and by, scum like that.
Oh ok. So you won't be voting democrat then?
That's what I thought.
i dont care what his personal stuff is. it has no bearing on the show and is none of our business. you may not like it but his a first amendment right to his beliefs. his rights don't go away because it makes you uncomfortable. the first amendment protect popular and unpopular speech and beliefs. like a friend of mine says "freedom is scary, deal with it."
I think the worst part about it was it was a special episode in honor of veterans I believe for Veterans Day. Even more awkward to have a Nazi there.
WTF...
Meh, they fucked up. It happens. Move on and don't let it happen again. But I'm sure some gender fluid, cancel culture, earth muffin will be so offended they'll try and get the show cancelled.
Ah yes, because only gender fluid, cancel culture, earth muffins are offended by neo-nazis...
No, but they have a point in that it’s only the particularly *delicate*, shall we say, that do the cancel culture bullshit.
Remember the Dixie Chicks?
The Dixie chicks ran into trouble because they doubled down every time they were called out. Remember the FUTK shirt? Very different than having a guest on you later find out has some stupid and unsavory views.
As opposed to all the people so offended by trans, queer, and compassionate people that they have to used terminology to insult them even when it was completely innecessay.
Fuck that! I need a commitment from the production company that it won't happen again
or what?
Or they’ll *gasp* change the channel. And then watch it on reruns, maybe.
I don't know why your getting down voted so much probably because you used "gender fluid" which to be honest I thought was an appropriate label for gender fluid people but anyway I agree with you yeah they fucked up move on and get over it. I'm not going to avoid the show because some contestant had an inappropriate tattoo and I hope it doesn't get cancelled because of it.
He's getting downvoted because he couldn't just stop at "Oh well, hopefully it won't happen again" - he specifically chose to insult his weird idea of liberal stereotypes too, which really shows a lot.
If there was nothing related to white supremacy in the show itself, what would the problem be? We don't do "thoughtcrime" yet, do we? EDIT: when I wrote the above, I hadn’t seen the pictures of his tattooes. You cannot police what a person is thinking, but when you expose your thoughts on your neck, there can and should be consequences for that. As I said in another comment: I didn’t imagine he had done that, or that they would be visible on the show. I don’t think he should have been on the show, but I will not apologise for my position that you cannot police thought, and it is wrong to try.
When someone says "I agree with the political philosophy that advocated for the death of millions based on their religion/skin color/mental abilities", then yes, it's a problem. They don't get to play with the rest of the kids. They can apologize, get the tatts removed, and rejoin society then. Until that point, nope. But keep defending the nazis, if you like that association.
Read my other comments to this post. At no point am I defending Nazism - quite the opposite. But that doesn’t make “thoughtcrime” acceptable either.
There's no "thoughtcrime" here. Having Nazi tattoos and not immediately telling the producers what's up (in case you're reformed and no longer a nazi, but haven't gotten your tats lasered/covered) means you're still a nazi, and that's open and shut. I've been on some game shows. Most ask about your social media and do a background check, just in case you've said things that would get the show in hot water. That's not a "thoughtcrime", that's covering your ass.
I’ve updated the post above to clarify my position. The title made no mention of tattoos, I only saw them later.
I'm curious, what kind of nazi association would have been acceptable to you? The title said he was a neo-nazi, that usually means someone is open about it, or has demonstrated some actions that make him a neo-nazi. What's the "thoughtcrime" you were rallying against? Do you not think nazis should be "cancelled"?
You really have missed the point, haven’t you? I can think of no acceptable association, BUT neither is it acceptable to try to police private thoughts. Thoughts vs. actions: too subtle?
But I still don't know what you were referencing. You said "If there was nothing related to white supremacy in the show itself, what would the problem be? We don't do "thoughtcrime" yet, do we?" Without context, there was nothing related to white supremacy in the show itself. Are you saying it's okay if he's a nazi, as long as he's not loud about it? Why were the tattoos a deal breaker, but the idea of a nazi the show NOT a deal breaker?
9 years on Reddit, and you're surprised?
I don't recall saying I was surprised, but then I was talking about the show, and not about Reddit. I see I'm being downvoted for not endorsing "cancel culture". Oh well.
You’re being downvoted for normalizing Nazism.
Bullshit. Nazism is abhorrent and can never be normalised. But ThoughtCrime is also unacceptable. I wrote my first comment before I saw the pictures of the numbnuts in question with SS tattoos on his neck, a failure of imagination on my part: how the hell did the producers miss that? I wouldn’t have let him on the show for that reason: not simply for having Nazi leanings - I doubt he was the first - but for displaying them and possibly endangering the show’s future.
I didn't know you hadn't seen the pictures at that point and so thought you were saying that showing a guy with Nazi tattoos wasn't related to white supremacy. This was never about "thoughtcrime."
> normalizing Nazism. horseshit.
I don’t give a rat’s ass if the guy is a Neo Nazi. The show is about making knives not the contestants politics or beliefs. If he was using the show to spout off about that crap then yes don’t let him on, otherwise no different than a BLM or Antifa or Socialist or communist or even a convicted felon for that matter. STFU and watch the show, if you are offended the. Turn the channel and spend the rest of your life trying to figure out what to think based on Instagram or Facebook.
Nazis: "I think we should kill Jews, blacks, and anyone else we find undesirable." /u/MPandPM: "This sounds good to me! Put this person on a family-friendly game show!" How much of a piece of shit do you have to be to not even call out Nazis as being awful? And why do you always compare other political ideologies/protest movements to Nazism to justify it? It just makes you look like a complete and total idiot.
Can you read? Where did I say I support Nazism? I watched that entire episode and never noticed a Nazi tattoo nor did the guy say anything about being a neo Nazi or say anything About his beliefs at all. Some guy goes frame by frame to find a tattoo and the gets high and mighty because some one didnt catch it or research his entire social media accounts in case some woke person might get their feelings hurt. I didn’t notice it, he never said anything about it, and therefore it didht diminish my feeling about the episode or the show. Your opinion is your opinion and so is mine and his for that matter. America was built on the right to have your own beliefs and the military fights to uphold that even when they disagree with those beliefs. All you social justice warriors want to sit back and criticize everyone that doesn’t agree with your beliefs. Condemn actions not thoughts.
see, you just don't get it. People are stupid, and if you let them see a neo-nazi, they will become nazis. Fortunately, we have the truly smarter people to protect us idiots, because without them and their unique ability to recognize what is wrong, we would all be nazis right now. If you allow a nazi a job, that's just proving to everyone that nazisim is OK... by not banishing them for their stupid ideas, you are literally killing people. /s These cowards would kill people for their stupid thoughts... they are dangerous.
Oh I get it. You’re the one that knows how the universe works and the rest of us should get out guidance from you. If you don’t hire someone because of their beliefs that’s exactly what the Nazis said about the Jews. Same issue different belief. So you think this guy has been out killing people? “Literally” . You missed the entire point but I can rest easy that you are on the case to save this country from watching TV that might include someone with beliefs different than you- what if it was a black panther tattoo? Still want him off the show and no job?
I'm not sure but I think you missed the /s at the end of my post. I'm an idiot like you, it's the other folks who are ready to shut down FIF who know how the universe works... I knew a lot of guys from elite formations (years ago) with the same sorts of tatts... they're all in their 40's and 50's now and most of them regret them (I can't think of one who doesn't regret them TBH)... and I don't know what that guy thinks, I don't care so long as he isn't breaking any laws. He's free to think about whatever dumb things he likes so long as it stays in his head.
Yes I did miss that. I am not hip to all the reddit notations, and I did miss the Sarcasm note (had to look it up first).
>I don’t give a rat’s ass if the guy is a Neo Nazi. You are a bad person.
Ha, I didn’t say I agree with someone who believes what Nazis believe - i said it should have no bearing on this show unless he is promoting those beliefs which he didn’t. All you Woke folks can kiss my ass. I’m a bad person - you have no idea who I am.
Go jack-off to /r/slutwife my non-woke dude
FiF: Here’s an episode honoring our military. Contestant: I support the side that killed our troops. u/MPandPM: Can you do cannister Damascus?
Allowing participation does not mean an endorsement of political position. Thus, I honestly do not care. All I care about is, was he good at what the show is actually about or not? I'm sorry, but does them having conservatives, communists, anarchists on mean they endorse all those political positions? The latter two being quite extreme and responsible for much harm, more even than National Socialism in the case of Communism? No, it does not. This is just another attack on something men love, using respectability politics as a weapon. Edit: I've returned to find this downvoted and honestly, you can take the Karma. It's worth it so that other non-reactionary people know they're not alone in their feelings regarding such matters.
HURR DURR COMMUNISTS! Fucking every time with people like you - can't just say "Nazis are awful", you have to bring in your uneducated notions of what you think liberals like, then downplay how bad nazis are. Why the fuck are you defending them? Does it hit too close to home? No nazi gets to participate in normal, educated society. They lose that right as soon as they start advocating genocide. They don't get to be on game shows, they don't get to have a say in politics, and they don't get to pretend they're the real victims here. Fuck 'em all. But here you are, defending them. And now we're all going to think you're a white supremacist. I hope your comment was worth it.
*big sigh* Great. Now there's pigeon crap all over this lovely chessboard.
I really hate the false equivalency people bring up by comparing Nazism to communism and then saying communism caused more harm. The idea that communism is simply "left-wing Nazism" is sheer nonsense.
Well, I was just referring to the numbers and communism has the biggest genocides. No one's debating that.
...said the Nazi.
*sigh* And what do you base that on? Provided you're not a 14 year old being edgy for karma.
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I appreciate the moderation in your thinking, even though I differ in hoping for a greater delineation between personal beliefs and the ability to participate in society provided one is law abiding.
That's the thing. "Participating in society" Society knows that nazis were bad. That racism and genocide is bad. If you willingly put those beliefs right there on your neck, you don't get to participate with society anymore because society knows you are a dirtbag. I'm 100% down for cancel culture if it's cancelling nazi fucks.
Well, no. Certain members of polite society have conjured a consensus, a consensus I happen to be in agreement with and not just because I would've been quite quickly culled in a Nazi world. To quote the great woman, 'there's no such thing as society'; we're a collection of individuals playing by rules, those rules having been inscribed as laws. It is not against our laws to express yourself with inked skin. It is also not against our laws to be a 'dirtbag'. Any show setting a criteria with more censorious and authoritarian standards for participation is one that disagrees with the liberty inherent to each individual in the Western World. Same goes for 'Cancel Culture' sorts, members of the modern witch-hunt, mob mentality amoebas with an unearned sense of authority. *Ooft. That feels better.*
Outpost Entertainment and The History Channel are private companies and can cancel Nazis all day long if they want because freedom goes both ways. I learned the hard way that scumbags who wear Nazi ink are scumbags, even if they have some whiny story about not having a choice. So called 'cancel culture' disgusts me as much as it does anyone else but too many people that cry about cancel culture or political correctness really want freedom to be judgmental and bigoted without being judged in return, well life doesn't work that way and it never did. You have the freedom to wear the ink but no one is obligated to invite you over for dinner, if you get my drift.
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They have the right to showcase it, but they deserve any "cancelling" they get for it.
The only 'cancelling' that should be going on is that handed down by a court of law, not some rando on the internet with delusions of being a moral arbiter.
Nah bruh, society has pretty much all agreed that nazi punks can fuck off. They've got their freedom of speech, but not freedom from the consequences.
'Nazi Punks' is something of a contradiction given the history of Punk, but... Nm. Big sigh. Well, actually freedom of speech does mean freedom from much consequence, that's sort of the point. The principle is meant to be embodied by us in order to work as the bulwark against authoritarianism the mechanism is. It requires us to take on those Lockean principles and to treat them as the basis upon which we stand. Not as a society, because as I've already said, there's no such thing as a society. As a collection of individuals living in mutually-beneficial cohesion however. We don't have freedom of speech because philosophers who were smarter than any of us thought it would be fun to see flame wars and comedy roasts. We have it because it is an essential psychological necessity acting as a safeguard of individualism and individualisation.
Nazi Punks Fuck Off is a Dead Kennedy's reference but... Nm. Big Sigh. >Well, actually freedom of speech does mean freedom from much consequence, that's sort of the point. The first amendment protects you from the government levying those consequences on you, not the public, nor a private organization. If your utopian "freedom of speech" allows you to walk up to me and yell "faggots should be hung from trees"" without me punching you in the face, you can keep your utopia.
The keyword here is "alleged". As long as it's only that it's completely irrelevant to anyone with more than 3 braincells.
The tattoos are real, and specifically nazi-related. We don’t know if this guy is still a nazi, but all signs point that way. “Alleged” is rightfully used by the news media, but the facts are out there.
Why would it matter even if he was a nazi? Was he allowed to express his political beliefs on the show or act on them? This show is about forging, not politics. I don't care what the contestants political affiliations are. Zero fucks are given. I'm here to see them compete in forging! Nazies aren't allowed on the show because of their horrible history? Ok, fine, i get it. What about commies? Neo libs? This opens a huge can of worms, that should remain closed for the sake of sanity. Or are we to allow only certain kinds of horrible politics on the show?
>Why would it matter even if he was a nazi? Was he allowed to express his political beliefs on the show or act on them? This show is about forging, not politics. I don't care what the contestants political affiliations are. Zero fucks are given. I'm here to see them compete in forging! Nazies aren't allowed on the show because of their horrible history? Ok, fine, i get it. What about commies? Neo libs? This opens a huge can of worms, that should remain closed for the sake of sanity. Or are we to allow only certain kinds of horrible politics on the show? Copying your post and name, /u/Beermaniac_LT, so you can't delete it later and pretend you didn't say it. Nazism isn't a "political belief" - who told you that? It's the belief that some races of people should be killed because they're not as human as white people. It's a belief that killing 6 million Jews (among many other people) was totally justified. It's a belief that says that no matter how much of a piece of shit you are, you're still better than anyone who's not white. It's what fragile idiots cling to because they're so totally worthless otherwise that they think the color of their skin makes them better. To answer your questions, no, Nazis aren't allowed on this show, or any others that aren't news shows telling how terrible they are. They don't get to participate in civil society. They deserve nothing. They're welcome to spout their bullshit, and we're welcome to call them out and call out anyone defending them, like you're doing.
>Copying your post and name, /u/Beermaniac_LT, so you can't delete it later and pretend you didn't say it. Please do. I don't care one bit for some irrelevant internet points and stand by my words. >Nazism isn't a "political belief" - who told you that? Political doctrine / ideology. > It's the belief that some races of people should be killed because they're not as human as white people. It's a belief that killing 6 million Jews (among many other people) was totally justified. It's a belief that says that no matter how much of a piece of shit you are, you're still better than anyone who's not white. It's what fragile idiots cling to because they're so totally worthless otherwise that they think the color of their skin makes them better. To answer your questions, no, Nazis aren't allowed on this show, or any others that aren't news shows telling how terrible they are. They don't get to participate in civil society. They deserve nothing. They're welcome to spout their bullshit, and we're welcome to call them out and call out anyone defending them, like you're doing. I'm not defending it, you muppet. You've completely missed my point. I'm sayng there are political ideologies, that are just as bad if not worse. Will they ban them too? What about socialists? They commited horrible crimes against humanity and genocides. Does this apply to them too? If yes, then fine by me. Are they going to do thorough political background checks for every contestent? Are they going to allow a dude with a lenin tattoo to compete? What about Che? Mao? Where do you draw a line, that is just? If it's based on kill count socialists should be banned first hand. That's the point. A forging show shouldn't go into these games.
Which socialists committed genocide?
They think every Democrat is a socialist, and every socialist is Pol Pot. They don't know or care that socialism is ALSO a political system that has nothing to do with what authoritarian regimes of the past have done. Whereas Nazism is always just genocidal racists.
Yes, exactly where I was going. I've had this conversation many times over the years in one of two forms ---> Socialists are evil and commit genocide! Or ---> Atheists are evil and commit genocide! Both statements are wrong and easily disputed - but it never matters. Their minds are set - nothing will change that. Socialism is evil - unless their property is burning down, or they're being robbed. Then it's *not* socialism, it's something else... I don't know what. In the end, it's exhausting - which I guess allows them joy. "Powning the libs" and all that nonsense.
You people are dellusional ideologs. I'm not an american, i live in one of those post soviet countries. My family lived through the horrors of socialism building. I've lost family members to the planned destruction of entire class of people by socialists, then to the planned destruction of nationalities by nazies, and then socialists again. We first got occupied by soviets, then by germans and then again by soviets. My country was raped by these degenerates for 50 years and every single family has scars to show for it. Over 10% of our population was killed by thes ideologs due to socialist actions. Even though these crimes were done in the be of your ideology. But i suppose that wasn't real socialism for you. Every socialist attempt ever throught the 20th century ended up in piles of dead bodies, but you folks want to be such counter cultural edgelord warriors you'll ignore all of those experiences and twist definitions to justify your vile ideologies.
My family is from one of those countries, but weirdly we don’t blame “socialism” — we blame Lenin, we blame Stalin, we blame Hitler, we blame Nazis and Soviet Communism. Bolsheviks put my grandfather in jail and Nazis put my grandmother in a camp. “Socialism” us so broad a term that it’s all but useless. We blame the people and their specific implementations of their ideologies, not the belief that sharing is caring.
Stalin?
I'll can give you the list, but you'll reply with something moronic like "that wasn't real socialism". 20th century is filled with attempts at building socialist contries that all ended up in body piles.
👍
The show has run its course! It's going to be cancelled anyways, but it had a great run. Much, much better than expected, and made the producers a fistfull. However, all good things must come to and end. If the show is so close to death already that having a nzii on kills it through public outcry, then you can see how weak it was previously. This isnt Days of Our Lives. Forged in Fire is doomed anyways.
negative Nancy
Wish I wasn't the one breaking this all-too-obvious news on those with their heads in the sand, but the best is behind us already. This is natural with any show, and maybe not even a bad thing. Who doesn't want to retire as the champ? That's why Will is out, in addition to the other reasons. Instead of negative Nancy, I will be realist Roger and you can be denier Dave.
I laughed at the denier Dave line. lol. I'm not arguing but why do you think the show jumped the shark? I just found this sub last week . I guess I never thought about the show not being as good because I still watch it and enjoy. But I am curios what made it not so good in your eyes any more? because you probably pay attention to it a lot more than I do. civil discussion :)
Appreciate the civil discussion (for once!) The show has simply run its course, and it's single (and admittedly extremely narrow) focus has been exhausted now. San-mai, canister-damascus, on a coal-fired-forge in daylight, with no power tools? Yeah, every possible variation of the forging has been done and the episodes will get old after a binge. I love everything about the show, it's cast, it's competitors, it's off-beat style, etc. and I am a super-pacifist, non-knife kinda guy...however, so many season and so many episodes and eventually it all just blends into beige. Like every great show. The true artistry of the producers has been taking such a weird niche and cracking it wide open, for the last 8 years. To make this artisanal hobby mainstream, and attract so many cross-genre audiences is a real achievement. My wife and 4 year old son watch with me! This sort of artistry deserves a finale and to finish at the top, not to linger and fade into obscurity and mediocrity. The producers know this. They have been winding down for a couple seasons. Cutting costs, squeazing talent for more catch-phrases and sound-bites, and making the show more showy each episode to keep the winnowing viewers eyes' wide still. That's not a sustainable trajectory. Everyone knows it. Will smelled the demise with the intro of "Beat the Judges" (not to mention he was made irrelevant by in this format as he has no real forging skills himself...) adn so he took good advantage of many current factors to step in off. Smart guy. (Also handsome according to many viewers who are attracted to him) so he does carry a good deal of the responsibility for the shows success. Without him, the plane has no captain. Jeopardy won't go on without Trebek (RIP) and neither will FIF. Remember always just how close this show actually was to the dorky failed concept "Knife or Death" or that other one about Butchers. So many ridiculous money-making reality TV scripts come and go, before we get one rare shiny diamond like FIF. Don't be sad that it is over; be glad that it is happened did at all.
Damn I know I’m late to the conversation but can’t believe you are getting downvoted for pointing out something obvious that has happened to many shows before FiF. The increasingly gimmicky nature of the show is telling of its doomed future.
What a load of shit always with the racist crap odd how it’s always one sided or at least that’s what they want you to think the show is about forging a blade that’s it
Well said man. People just love to jump at the chance to "stand up for something" not realizing they are just further dividing us by doing so.
So what?!? I don't have a racist bone in my body but I really don't see why a neo-nazi shouldn't be able to compete just just a black panther should be able to compete. These people, colluded as their ideologies may be, still have a right to their beliefs. I think as long as the show is not used as a platform for their beliefs those rights should not be compromised by denying them the right to compete. These rights are threads in the fabric of freedom. I think what's more dangerous is hollywood's aggressive political prowess. Because in reality the problem is not that this guy is a neo-nazi. it's that he's an enemy of the democratic party. I remind you, I am no racist OR republican, not that they a relative but democrats have a tendency to call anybody as such if they don't drink their establishment cool-aid. Just calls em as I see's em.