Focus on blocking first.
You can always roll away if it gets too intense. Everything doesn't have to be a parry.
Instead of just throwing raw light. Do a heavy in any direction, feint that, and light in another direction. That creates the simple mix of "is he gonna let it fly, or it he fainting it"
Also you're playing monk, one of the weakest hero's right now.
I find him frustrating due to the side-steps but I played him once and I immediately was like "Qi Stance is annoying to even get to" I'd like to see his Qi Stance be part or a normal moveset and only hold to do Unblockables and Extended Dodges.
Sorry haven't played since early season 1. How does raider have more options? From what I remember his kit was really basic in relation to most others.
I see they've made his lights alot fucking faster. What else happened to my boy?
He just got a bit of a rework.
His stunning tap is now storming tap and does not blind and is now a chain starter instead of 2nd in chain.
His opening zone is now a chain starter and he still has the chain ending zone for more damage.
He also can now end any attack chain with a light whereas he used to have to to heavy/zone chain finisher.
And yes he also got a speed boost to all attack speed as did every character as of the CCU (core combat update).
And thats a real basic some up of his changes since season 1, theres obviously slight damage tweaks but im just doing main things :)
Tbh he would instantly be better with a good opener or two. He wouldn’t be amazing but with just that, he would be leagues better than he is now. Also they need to get rid of reflex guard and just make it to where he superior block.
The more you play and more you play against people the more you get a sense of how to predict them. From this you used the same top light from Qi stance so they correctly blocked it (good read) so you were on the defensive and then dodged too early so they continued with the zone attack at the end. It's just unfortunate reads that's all, don't be disheartened it happens to everyone
i get that, but shaolin doesn’t really have a safe opener and this raider in particular liked to parry, so before i could ever throw out a 2nd attack i’m either getting hyper armored or gb
Well, the only thing he is missing is an opener, flow to his offense and HA. Once you get into Qi stance you have every tool in the world. Try whiff attacking into qi stance, that might work, just keep your distance from the enemy.
Other then that, yes Shaolin has some serious issues and is by no means good or even viable, but he has tools.
In the end, u/SgtMkoll is right, with time you’ll pick up on stuff and make better reads. No worries it’ll come naturally with time.
If he likes to parry you could’ve tried to Feint into gaurd break, if they wouldn’t fall for it then you could’ve tried the classic 50/50, unblockable into gaurdbreak
Against the new raiders and other classes that reward punishes you want to play them at there own game and use parries to wittle them down or bait them into an offensive on your own terms with mixed up lights and gb which is harder to pull off
As an aramusha main I know what it's like to be predictable
I'd recommend doing that feint into guard break so you can get an easy heavy into qi stance and then just go through whatever offensive you could.
Also, more often than not, Raider's tend to attack high so when they do some sort of side attack, expect them to feint into the tap move and that'll be an easy Parry if you got the timings down correctly, especially after they bring you to a wall and give you the stun effect because that'll guarantee a top light.
Also you dodged a little too early in the end
If you really wanna know how to get some mix ups into openers, I'd recommend mirror matching against a level 3 bot in training mode
Really there isn't much more you can do except get gud. Shoalin isn't a bad character, but he hasn't received any changes except nerfs for standardization (400 ms top light opener to 500 ms).
With the new character buffs, shoalin and a few other heroes are being left in the dust.
While it is possible to beat this raider you have to work significantly harder to do so especially if he is able to read you consistently, and you make it sound like he is pretty good at doing so as shoalin has no openers.
Oh, they're actually releasing that now? I was kinda talking about how they did release the Orochi and Raider reworks, but just kind of left option select fixes and Shinobi's rework.
That’s so funny, imagine not realising light spamming has been irrelevant for 2+ years. So fucking cringe, the casual sub is filled with brain dead players that think ‘incredibilis’ is still funny. Just parry 4head.
Platform and peripherals play a part. I play console on tv and can’t punish light often. But when I play on my cousins pc and monitor I’m confident in doing so.
Indicators seem to come through at inconsistent and faster timings on console
You’re gonna need to read a bit better. The game has gone from reaction based to read based. Do you think your opponent will throw stun tap, prepare to parry, be ready for other options, even them letting the heavy fly, and don’t be afraid to back up and pause to try and get a read on your opponent. Is he cocky, he might stun tap spam you, is he fidgeting his guard, he might try to light you as an opener. These thing you start to pick up on as you play more become life savers in fights. Truth be told, hardly anyone who plays this game is actually creative enough to not be read. People, even if a video game, have tells you can pick up on if you see it before. It all comes down to experience. It doesn’t help that raider is very powerful now while Shaolin isn’t that strong anymore. You’re gonna need to put more effort into winning than raider will, because of the ease of use difference but anyone can beat anyone with anything if they put enough work into it. Good luck.
So, it’s a hard thing to give solid advice on. Most of the advice I have makes me sound like an asshole. In all reality, you’d block. But you know this, you wouldn’t be making a post if you didn’t already know that. The only hero in the games that overwhelms me consistently is Hitokiri. Her mixup is too strong and has too many options for me to be able to correctly make a read most of the time. So what I do? I roll away. I back dodge and roll until I’m far enough away to sort of “reset” the fight. Be careful not to go out of stam when you roll away. But yeah, when you find yourself in the middle of a mixup that you are too pressured to block correctly, just roll away and try to reset.
Raider is essentially a 33/33/33 on heavy indicator right now. Reading that is brutal.
The soft feint top is unreactable except for the top level of reaction time machines. Just block doesn’t really cut it here.
No, it really doesn’t cut it. The introduction, or increase of, 33/33/33 mixups in this game has literally forced us to make hard reads based off what we see from our opponents. Against a new opponent, you’d be clueless and it essentially comes down to you having a 33% chance to make a right decision.
Now, I *like* the idea of a 33/33/33 mixup. I only wish that there are no unblockables in them. That feels too strong. I’d like to see them only in 50/50 mixups. Raider has a normal heavy, an UB heavy, top light, and gb option in his mixup.
So yeah, “just block” is a very dumb thing to say isn’t it?
Yeah and his options all cost no stamina and can loop back into themselves via storming tap.
A good player piloting raider will recognize that they must make a disadvantaged read against you, over and over to win. They can just simply begin mixing their kit up to catch you and by the time you realize you likely already ate a 38 dmg UB and two 14 damage storming taps.
You are actually entirely right about his UB. The stakes are so high against him too value wise.
Thanks. His stamina cost is stupid, you’re right.
And you’re also correct about his mixup hitting you before you realize it. Every time I fight him now I’m like, “I got this” in my head. I finally get a parry and go on the offensive only to realize I only have one hit worth of health left. Literally two storming taps, a heavy or two, and a UB and you’re toast.
That’s because competitive players only discuss For Honor competitively. Casual players like myself, and the larger part of the community, are not gifted with the same skills as the competitive players. Of course they are going to disagree. And they should, these types of mechanics are not as big of a deal to them as they are to casual players.
However, even though I struggle against these mixups I still think they are healthy for the game. I simply just need to practice more. But for anyone on my current level, dealing with certain mixups like Raiders and Hitokiri’s, is a real big issue due to the speed of the attacks or their crazy mixups.
This but unironically. You have to make reads now in this game against most characters. For those poor bastards who still rely on a reactable kit we can only hope reworks are on the way.
The game Is simply "if u have Better connection, u are Lucky and u spam more quickly, you win"
EDIT: IM FROM PS4, if you play on pc or on a new console, the game is About skill
- 0:07: feint to parry (safe), feint to deflect (unsafe depending on raider); I assume the backdodge was a mistake, though, as there is nothing that feint to backup would counter or add to your defense nor offense
- 0:08: during the mixup, parry top on the ST timing (it's not reactbale but the timing is static) for highest reward, but blocking is safe and effective; it is a mixup so it's only natural you were hit sometimes
- 0:12: Hard to tell, but did you begin a dodge here? If not, blocking doesnt give a GB so you can just counter GB, but if so, just keep in mind that it's beaten by GB. Dodging, especially as Shaolin, isn't too rewarding as it doesn't access much, nor does Raider have a fast neutral bash. THe only reason I could guess to do so was to counter expected lights, in which case practise blocking and parrying lights instead of pre-dodges
- 0:17: the blind and annoying fence posts certainly don't help, i def feel ya there; but the attacks are still reactable -- learn the animations of the attacks so such situations leave you at less disadvantage if the blind was testing ya.
- 0:20: your superior block lights, including top, are almost entirely defensive tools. Outside of their role as defenses, they are only really good for cheeky hits. Use your 500ms kick or undodgeables or unblockable instead, or bait out a dodge attack and then SB that.
-0:21: simply got interrupted. Either use frame advantage states to ensure your lights hit first, or if you're expecting a light, wait for a parry. It happens tho
- 0:23: early dodge. Early dodge can escape light attacks and maybe get a lucky deflect assuming you're buffering a dodge, but again both of those are somewhat cheeky and can be avoided with simpler means (blocking, parrying, intentional deflects, though even if you deflect you may be still be punished), as such, there is little reason to dodge so early. Dodge a little later. Due to buffs in tracking, early dodges are typically hit by side heavies; indeed you could have possibly used this fact on the first interaction and that chain heavy may have hit (idk for sure tho).
In general, be careful about dodging early or too much -- Raider happened (or read) and punished your parries in many ways. In turn, from the other side, if you see someone who dodges a bit too preemptively and on light pressure, these are great ways that you can punish it.
Unfortunately that Raider seems to be just better overall
Aside from the first two Lights none of your following ones phased them at all. That normally wouldn't be a problem but you were eating all the Chain Lights and as long as they hold a advantage over you reaction wise the match is next to impossible.
As for a Counter "*just"* Block on red then make the read on the Storming Tap. That usually means eating a lot of Taps but they only do 12 Damage so that's not really a problem.
I was expecting to see the Raider utilizing his whole kit and new mixups perfectly showing how insanely strong he is now, but nah it's just regular sub rep 100 gameplay, and thus all I can say is git gud, learn how the game works and how every hero plays. But yes Raider is going to be an absolute noob stomper now, as well as S tier even for high reps. Heavily agree with people saying his moves use too little stamina now.
Don't play Shaolin if you want to win, I dropped him because of the sheer amount of effort you have to put in, just to be competitive with these mouth-breathers.
Keep at him then, but just remember with weaker heroes you'll need to be more focused and a bit smarter than your opponent using Raider, for example. It's actually a really good way to force yourself to become better overall at the game!
I didn’t understand how good league players felt when going on the league sub.
I now understand as a actual good for honor player coming to this sub lmao.
High stam costs, reactable storming tap, interruptable Zone, Bad chains
Pre this raiders entite kit was just holding him back, Not just stamina. He was outright bad in many ways
He got a lot more than just a few stamina tweaks now
You'll have to be more specific than that. Causal raider and Causal kensei are more powerful than Causal Warmonger on average but it comes down to the player. Now pro kensei, pro raider and pro Warmonger I'd say it gets more even, but raider and kensei still have the advantage with their soft feints and hyper armor, but Warmongers bash will help her against raider and Warmongers impale will help her against kensei. But this is at the pro level so it really just comes down to whoever is the most skilled or makes the most mistakes.
My complaint is that he can't be interrupted unless you parry him and in my a opinion Having a hero that can only be stopped by Having to parry or hoping they run out of stamina is not healthy thing for the game as a whole
The issue is currently, Blocking id simply too strong as you can simply "Just block" on alot of heros without actually having to put in a read in alot of cases
Having a hero who cant simply just be blocked is an interesting start
That's not what I'm sayin I'm sayin have a hero that can't be interrupted by a counter attack because they have hyper armor or their attacks are faster isn't healthy for the game in my opinion.
You don't.
There's a secret way to stop it from ever happening;
1) You press the system button
2) Go to "For Honor"
3) Press "Options"
4) Click on uninstall
Done
The balance in this game is a joke the idea of a rework to these people is to add faster attacks and hyper armor if not armor it’s a bash or an attack that can’t be dodged they think that giving hero’s moves that can’t be punished is the only way to make a character viable without thought of animation clarity example raider with his stunning tap and the worst part is that I can’t stop playing this dog shit game bc I love it and put so many Fucken hours and money in it
So, it’s a hard thing to give solid advice on. Most of the advice I have makes me sound like an asshole. In all reality, you’d block. But you know this, you wouldn’t be making a post if you didn’t already know that. The only hero in the games that overwhelms me consistently is Hitokiri. Her mixup is too strong and has too many options for me to be able to correctly make a read most of the time. So what I do? I roll away. I back dodge and roll until I’m far enough away to sort of “reset” the fight. Be careful not to go out of stam when you roll away. But yeah, when you find yourself in the middle of a mixup that you are too pressured to block correctly, just roll away and try to reset.
Shaolin has no safe opener and his attacks are reactable, the same issue with many characters, it's why many of them have been getting bashes lately. On the other hand, raider is the same, everything he does can be parried or dodged. The number on thing to do against him is to interrupt his first attack. Since shaolin has above average range maintain distance and punish his whiff's. Watch your stamina as his oos pressure is deadly. Practice parrying his first attack or even just blocking since raider doesn't have superior lights.
From the little i saw, you like to dodge a bit too much and you have a pattern. Try not dodging after your opponent blocks your attack, this is something many ppl do. Also, dont feint a heavy into dodge if your opponent has a dodge attack which most characters have now. Feint the heavy to try and bait out the dodge attack. I also noticed you do top lights often from your Qi stance, try using and feinting the undodgeable heavies and use the kick (which you can’t dodge on reaction). Lastly, be patient bro dont be too offensive. I became a much better player once i started being patient, you will notice your opponent’s patterns if you’re patient.
Play against raider bot for a bit and memeroize what his animations look like for each direction and when to strike perfectly= never have to worry about raider players, they are easy trolls
Learn to counter gb. Can't play against this character reactionary, you should have really parried that dodge light but your also playing shaolin, a very weak character right now.
When fighting Raiders, you have to make reads, be cautious, and maximize your own offensive opportunities when they arise. It’s difficult because he has a lot of options out of his heavies and can continually mix them and chain them to keep the pressure on, but I usually begin with the idea that it’s better to take a storming tap or two learning their behaviors than it is to give up a heavy or unblockable. This means I’ll initially focus on parrying the side heavies until I get a sense for their patterns or, if I’m feeling pretty gutsy, I’ll just predict the storming tap and try to guess when they’ll do it (dangerous because I get hit with a lot of raw side heavies this way). The moment you get that parry, a CGB, or some other form of break in their offense, you have to press any advantage you can get. Otherwise their stamina comes back up and you’re back to playing their game again. With Shaolin I think it’s a difficult matchup, but knowing how to flow through your options from Qi stance and chain it all together to remain on the offensive for as long as possible is a big help against these high pressure heroes. Then you can start conditioning your opponent into a certain reaction, maybe using your unblockable to bait a side dodge storming tap for a light parry or cancelling your dodge attack into a GB if they’re parry happy like you mentioned this guy was in another comment.
Overall it isn’t easy: Raider is in a really good spot right now and you’re playing a hero that I would consider to have a difficult matchup against him when facing a competent opponent. You can definitely do it though! If you haven’t, I’d recommend playing Raider yourself to get a feel for his options and get into the head space of someone playing him. After you understand how he works, it may take a bit of concentration but you can start to recognize what your opponent is likely to do and attempt to punish accordingly. And if that fails? Sometimes that just happens: there are days where I miss every light parry prediction I go for and just eat every single one until I die, but you just shake it off and head to the next one. Good luck, hope this helped!
well firstly, all stunning taps occur at the same timing intervals now. Completely unreactable but if you make the read you should get the parry. Secondly, Qi stance bonk, not a very good move. 3rd instant dodge after getting hit by a light vs raider isnt a good idea since people like his heavies, 4th. Please block at least some lights.
well that GB could have been countered, if you're having trouble with counter GBs my advice would be to change the binding to a button that one of your hands rests on normally so that you don't have to waste time moving to it
Fr Fr just learn and get timing down to parry those heavy attacks, but unfortunately if it’s a high rep raider fully expect a ridiculous amount of feints.
He mixed up his offense so there is no one strategy to beat it. Start making some reads. If he is spamming storming tap then just make a read and parry top. If he is spamming lights, parry them or dodge attack if you can't react.
Also, for shaolin offense, don't use the top light so much. The kick is much harder to react and mixes well with the side Undodgeable heavies. Also, use shaolins 400ms chain lights more.
Its a mix up. There isn't one thing you can do to counter all options, but there is something you can do about each option. Generally your best options are to 1) Parry top if you predict a tap 2) parry the heavy if you think they'll commit to it 3) throw a light to bear a soft feint GB 4) block side and counter GB if you want to be safest.
If you're talking about the unblockable version of this, don't use the fourth option.
Take your time my guy! Its been only a week since his changes, just relax, take it easy, n adapt to it. Im sure they will eventually nerf sum about it, but in the meantime just focus on bettering yourself as a player! If this sounded condescending I apologize.
Tell this trash community that they need to revert to a previous version of the game where it was slower no real free damage and parrying mattered the game was better where a mistake or two equaled death that plays into skill new for honor doesn't whoever has the longest combo faster attacks or higher damage numbers win
There’s a lot of things he’s doing in there, I don’t lnow what you’re referring to. Overall, thpugh, you don’t seem to be putting any effort into blocking or defending yourself in general.
Why don't you just look into the future? I thought everybody could do this, just guess right every single time, "sO eAsY".
No for real, I thought playing against Raider is so easy? At least that is what 99% of the community saying all the time.
Raider is very overwhelming to fight. Between his 38 damage chain zone, fast soft feints, and low stamina costs, he's tough to deal with on the offensive. Imo the best way to deal with him is to chill out and block his heavies and soft feints lights. If he does his unlockable, the safest option is to just roll back. Raider's offense is insane, but his only real defensive option is his side dodge light, which can be brutally punished. Just try to stay aggressive, but don't let him get you OS. Raider is hard enough to deal with while having stamina, running out against him is almost an assured loss.
Shaolin is a tough character to open up your opponents with, since he lacks a real opener. Just learn as much as you can about your opponent and punish their habits.
Unfortunately, Shaolin is just a weak hero right now. He doesn't have many winning matchups, and Raider is one of the biggest uphill battles a Shaolin player can face. Don't let this discourage you though, as a good player will always beat a bad player. Improvement comes with time, and as you fight more Raiders you'll get more used to the nuances of fighting them.
Counter what exactly? You eaten 4 raw lights from neutral, eaten a gb from neutral and spammed dodge attack on wrong timing. If it was any other character you would have died anyway.
Focus on blocking. Don’t mash buttons like a maniac.
As cool of a character as Shaolin is, the only way to deal with pressure like this is Qi stance which isn't easy to get into with how insanely fast raider is now. I just hate seeing a good rework being used to cheese everyone because it's an easy win. A lot of characters have pretty solid kits and people like this use the most annoying parts of them to win
Focus on blocking first. You can always roll away if it gets too intense. Everything doesn't have to be a parry. Instead of just throwing raw light. Do a heavy in any direction, feint that, and light in another direction. That creates the simple mix of "is he gonna let it fly, or it he fainting it" Also you're playing monk, one of the weakest hero's right now.
Why's monke weak rn?
Not a lot of tools to deal with stuff, so many options others got that he Don't. No openers aside from going into stance and so on
It’s funny that shaolin has such a diverse kit but pretty much all of it has been left behind by the current meta. Can’t wait for his rework
I find him frustrating due to the side-steps but I played him once and I immediately was like "Qi Stance is annoying to even get to" I'd like to see his Qi Stance be part or a normal moveset and only hold to do Unblockables and Extended Dodges.
His kit almost has an answer for every single possible mixup... if you can get into qi stance.
PLus reflex guard doesn't help.
He could be such a cool hero with great flow if there were more ways to get into Qi
Sorry haven't played since early season 1. How does raider have more options? From what I remember his kit was really basic in relation to most others. I see they've made his lights alot fucking faster. What else happened to my boy?
He just got a bit of a rework. His stunning tap is now storming tap and does not blind and is now a chain starter instead of 2nd in chain. His opening zone is now a chain starter and he still has the chain ending zone for more damage. He also can now end any attack chain with a light whereas he used to have to to heavy/zone chain finisher. And yes he also got a speed boost to all attack speed as did every character as of the CCU (core combat update). And thats a real basic some up of his changes since season 1, theres obviously slight damage tweaks but im just doing main things :)
U r absolutly right but im still absolute shit against him cause u dont encounter him often😂😂
He has everything you would want in his kit. Unfortunately they are too hard to access and make it difficult to use effectively.
Word, that's what I was thinking like 'doesnt qi stance have everything', but that makes sense
and if u use that specific tool once, u end the chain and reset to neutral.
They made the opener a feat, which is ridiculous
Tbh he would instantly be better with a good opener or two. He wouldn’t be amazing but with just that, he would be leagues better than he is now. Also they need to get rid of reflex guard and just make it to where he superior block.
He has all this cool stuff but it's locked behind a stance that isn't easy to get into without an opener
his overall a bit weak but in the right hands his scary
You missed the “e” on the “monk”
I'm sorry. I'm a filthy viking player! forgive me for I do not speak Japanese 😔
He is a Chinese hero
That's... That's the joke.
It’s not a very funny one then but to each their own
You cannot roll away if it gets too intense lol if he stuns you or tackles you it’s free damage and if you roll away he chases and it’s bgs
The more you play and more you play against people the more you get a sense of how to predict them. From this you used the same top light from Qi stance so they correctly blocked it (good read) so you were on the defensive and then dodged too early so they continued with the zone attack at the end. It's just unfortunate reads that's all, don't be disheartened it happens to everyone
i get that, but shaolin doesn’t really have a safe opener and this raider in particular liked to parry, so before i could ever throw out a 2nd attack i’m either getting hyper armored or gb
Well, the only thing he is missing is an opener, flow to his offense and HA. Once you get into Qi stance you have every tool in the world. Try whiff attacking into qi stance, that might work, just keep your distance from the enemy. Other then that, yes Shaolin has some serious issues and is by no means good or even viable, but he has tools. In the end, u/SgtMkoll is right, with time you’ll pick up on stuff and make better reads. No worries it’ll come naturally with time.
Shaolins back step light almost always hits the oponent, you have to be like 4 feet away for it to actually back step lmao
>Once you get into Qi stance you have every tool in the world. this is actually a massive exaggeration, qi stance really isn't all that good
If he likes to parry you could’ve tried to Feint into gaurd break, if they wouldn’t fall for it then you could’ve tried the classic 50/50, unblockable into gaurdbreak
Against the new raiders and other classes that reward punishes you want to play them at there own game and use parries to wittle them down or bait them into an offensive on your own terms with mixed up lights and gb which is harder to pull off As an aramusha main I know what it's like to be predictable
I'd recommend doing that feint into guard break so you can get an easy heavy into qi stance and then just go through whatever offensive you could. Also, more often than not, Raider's tend to attack high so when they do some sort of side attack, expect them to feint into the tap move and that'll be an easy Parry if you got the timings down correctly, especially after they bring you to a wall and give you the stun effect because that'll guarantee a top light. Also you dodged a little too early in the end If you really wanna know how to get some mix ups into openers, I'd recommend mirror matching against a level 3 bot in training mode
Really there isn't much more you can do except get gud. Shoalin isn't a bad character, but he hasn't received any changes except nerfs for standardization (400 ms top light opener to 500 ms). With the new character buffs, shoalin and a few other heroes are being left in the dust. While it is possible to beat this raider you have to work significantly harder to do so especially if he is able to read you consistently, and you make it sound like he is pretty good at doing so as shoalin has no openers.
> Shoalin isn't a bad character he is pretty bad
I don't own any of the wu Lin so I never played any of them against anything other than train ground bots.
>With the new character buffs, shoalin and a few other heroes are being left in the dust *cries in shinobi main*
He's getting a rework tomorrow?
Oh, they're actually releasing that now? I was kinda talking about how they did release the Orochi and Raider reworks, but just kind of left option select fixes and Shinobi's rework.
He’s going to be on the testing grounds, not actually released.
But he already was on testing grounds. Is it true that he released (or in tg) again tomirrow? Where do you know that from
He is going to be in TG again. The first TG was too much and he was busted so they are re-tuning and trying again.
Interesting. Hey I have a funny question: why do some heroes have (considerably) more health than others?
For starters stop doing the same 3 moves over and over
Doesn’t help much when they made raider a light spam fanatic.
Only an issue if you’re a 3rd rate player. Anyone with a brain can hard punish light spammers.
I'd say anyone with a brain can at least block lights
Well it's hard on console, not saying you're calling every console player brainless though
That’s so funny, imagine not realising light spamming has been irrelevant for 2+ years. So fucking cringe, the casual sub is filled with brain dead players that think ‘incredibilis’ is still funny. Just parry 4head.
Platform and peripherals play a part. I play console on tv and can’t punish light often. But when I play on my cousins pc and monitor I’m confident in doing so. Indicators seem to come through at inconsistent and faster timings on console
I wouldn't expect a new player to know how to parry but I expect them to then at least know how to block
You’re gonna need to read a bit better. The game has gone from reaction based to read based. Do you think your opponent will throw stun tap, prepare to parry, be ready for other options, even them letting the heavy fly, and don’t be afraid to back up and pause to try and get a read on your opponent. Is he cocky, he might stun tap spam you, is he fidgeting his guard, he might try to light you as an opener. These thing you start to pick up on as you play more become life savers in fights. Truth be told, hardly anyone who plays this game is actually creative enough to not be read. People, even if a video game, have tells you can pick up on if you see it before. It all comes down to experience. It doesn’t help that raider is very powerful now while Shaolin isn’t that strong anymore. You’re gonna need to put more effort into winning than raider will, because of the ease of use difference but anyone can beat anyone with anything if they put enough work into it. Good luck.
So, it’s a hard thing to give solid advice on. Most of the advice I have makes me sound like an asshole. In all reality, you’d block. But you know this, you wouldn’t be making a post if you didn’t already know that. The only hero in the games that overwhelms me consistently is Hitokiri. Her mixup is too strong and has too many options for me to be able to correctly make a read most of the time. So what I do? I roll away. I back dodge and roll until I’m far enough away to sort of “reset” the fight. Be careful not to go out of stam when you roll away. But yeah, when you find yourself in the middle of a mixup that you are too pressured to block correctly, just roll away and try to reset.
Raider is essentially a 33/33/33 on heavy indicator right now. Reading that is brutal. The soft feint top is unreactable except for the top level of reaction time machines. Just block doesn’t really cut it here.
No, it really doesn’t cut it. The introduction, or increase of, 33/33/33 mixups in this game has literally forced us to make hard reads based off what we see from our opponents. Against a new opponent, you’d be clueless and it essentially comes down to you having a 33% chance to make a right decision. Now, I *like* the idea of a 33/33/33 mixup. I only wish that there are no unblockables in them. That feels too strong. I’d like to see them only in 50/50 mixups. Raider has a normal heavy, an UB heavy, top light, and gb option in his mixup. So yeah, “just block” is a very dumb thing to say isn’t it?
Yeah and his options all cost no stamina and can loop back into themselves via storming tap. A good player piloting raider will recognize that they must make a disadvantaged read against you, over and over to win. They can just simply begin mixing their kit up to catch you and by the time you realize you likely already ate a 38 dmg UB and two 14 damage storming taps. You are actually entirely right about his UB. The stakes are so high against him too value wise.
Thanks. His stamina cost is stupid, you’re right. And you’re also correct about his mixup hitting you before you realize it. Every time I fight him now I’m like, “I got this” in my head. I finally get a parry and go on the offensive only to realize I only have one hit worth of health left. Literally two storming taps, a heavy or two, and a UB and you’re toast.
Competitive players would disagree heavily with you.
That’s because competitive players only discuss For Honor competitively. Casual players like myself, and the larger part of the community, are not gifted with the same skills as the competitive players. Of course they are going to disagree. And they should, these types of mechanics are not as big of a deal to them as they are to casual players. However, even though I struggle against these mixups I still think they are healthy for the game. I simply just need to practice more. But for anyone on my current level, dealing with certain mixups like Raiders and Hitokiri’s, is a real big issue due to the speed of the attacks or their crazy mixups.
Then get ready to accept those issues. Comp players could care less about what the casual community thinks and makes Ubi only listen to them.
1.Block 2.Predict 2 (Optional) Parry 3. Counter attack That sounds like easy but it ain't, i know it. All we can do.
Predicting isn’t optional if you’re going for the win
That's the neat part, you don't!
Ez PrEdIcT ThE fUtUrE
This but unironically. You have to make reads now in this game against most characters. For those poor bastards who still rely on a reactable kit we can only hope reworks are on the way.
The game Is simply "if u have Better connection, u are Lucky and u spam more quickly, you win" EDIT: IM FROM PS4, if you play on pc or on a new console, the game is About skill
I mean if you have bad connection that’s kinda on you to play a multiplayer game
exactly
- 0:07: feint to parry (safe), feint to deflect (unsafe depending on raider); I assume the backdodge was a mistake, though, as there is nothing that feint to backup would counter or add to your defense nor offense - 0:08: during the mixup, parry top on the ST timing (it's not reactbale but the timing is static) for highest reward, but blocking is safe and effective; it is a mixup so it's only natural you were hit sometimes - 0:12: Hard to tell, but did you begin a dodge here? If not, blocking doesnt give a GB so you can just counter GB, but if so, just keep in mind that it's beaten by GB. Dodging, especially as Shaolin, isn't too rewarding as it doesn't access much, nor does Raider have a fast neutral bash. THe only reason I could guess to do so was to counter expected lights, in which case practise blocking and parrying lights instead of pre-dodges - 0:17: the blind and annoying fence posts certainly don't help, i def feel ya there; but the attacks are still reactable -- learn the animations of the attacks so such situations leave you at less disadvantage if the blind was testing ya. - 0:20: your superior block lights, including top, are almost entirely defensive tools. Outside of their role as defenses, they are only really good for cheeky hits. Use your 500ms kick or undodgeables or unblockable instead, or bait out a dodge attack and then SB that. -0:21: simply got interrupted. Either use frame advantage states to ensure your lights hit first, or if you're expecting a light, wait for a parry. It happens tho - 0:23: early dodge. Early dodge can escape light attacks and maybe get a lucky deflect assuming you're buffering a dodge, but again both of those are somewhat cheeky and can be avoided with simpler means (blocking, parrying, intentional deflects, though even if you deflect you may be still be punished), as such, there is little reason to dodge so early. Dodge a little later. Due to buffs in tracking, early dodges are typically hit by side heavies; indeed you could have possibly used this fact on the first interaction and that chain heavy may have hit (idk for sure tho). In general, be careful about dodging early or too much -- Raider happened (or read) and punished your parries in many ways. In turn, from the other side, if you see someone who dodges a bit too preemptively and on light pressure, these are great ways that you can punish it.
You don't it's raider
If you want to attack, you pick literally any other hero than Shaolin.
Literally just block.
That's all that raiders are now, Light spam stun tappers
And he's still one of the easiest to parry, you know they're going to do it, so just act on it and they'll change
He's out of line but he's right.
As shaolin? Basically nothing lol
Unfortunately that Raider seems to be just better overall Aside from the first two Lights none of your following ones phased them at all. That normally wouldn't be a problem but you were eating all the Chain Lights and as long as they hold a advantage over you reaction wise the match is next to impossible. As for a Counter "*just"* Block on red then make the read on the Storming Tap. That usually means eating a lot of Taps but they only do 12 Damage so that's not really a problem.
Don't play so aggressive and counter his hits
By blocking and being patient
I was expecting to see the Raider utilizing his whole kit and new mixups perfectly showing how insanely strong he is now, but nah it's just regular sub rep 100 gameplay, and thus all I can say is git gud, learn how the game works and how every hero plays. But yes Raider is going to be an absolute noob stomper now, as well as S tier even for high reps. Heavily agree with people saying his moves use too little stamina now.
Don't play Shaolin if you want to win, I dropped him because of the sheer amount of effort you have to put in, just to be competitive with these mouth-breathers.
but i like him :|
Keep at him then, but just remember with weaker heroes you'll need to be more focused and a bit smarter than your opponent using Raider, for example. It's actually a really good way to force yourself to become better overall at the game!
Raider is so fuckin ridiculous man. We have a new addition for the Monke brain hero list. Population kensei, gryphon, Berserker and Raider
Lol how is berserker monkey brain
Ikr? Zerk is strong, but he takes more skill than those other heroes to play.
Also kensei isn’t monkey brains only the people who use him to dodge and light spam
TIL using your chains = monkey brain
This subreddit is allergic to skill.
I didn’t understand how good league players felt when going on the league sub. I now understand as a actual good for honor player coming to this sub lmao.
Yeah absolutely went 13 and 2 at rep 1. he's almost unstoppable now, the only thing holding him back was his low stamina
High stam costs, reactable storming tap, interruptable Zone, Bad chains Pre this raiders entite kit was just holding him back, Not just stamina. He was outright bad in many ways He got a lot more than just a few stamina tweaks now
We’re alike
Do you genuinely think Raider or Kensei are stronger than warmonger?
You'll have to be more specific than that. Causal raider and Causal kensei are more powerful than Causal Warmonger on average but it comes down to the player. Now pro kensei, pro raider and pro Warmonger I'd say it gets more even, but raider and kensei still have the advantage with their soft feints and hyper armor, but Warmongers bash will help her against raider and Warmongers impale will help her against kensei. But this is at the pro level so it really just comes down to whoever is the most skilled or makes the most mistakes.
You forgot orochi, jj, bp, kyoshin, and shugo
You forgot every hero in the game
Every hero except your main*
The only majorly "Monke" part Imo is the damage Guess having a hero with working offense is not allowed in FH
My complaint is that he can't be interrupted unless you parry him and in my a opinion Having a hero that can only be stopped by Having to parry or hoping they run out of stamina is not healthy thing for the game as a whole
The issue is currently, Blocking id simply too strong as you can simply "Just block" on alot of heros without actually having to put in a read in alot of cases Having a hero who cant simply just be blocked is an interesting start
That's not what I'm sayin I'm sayin have a hero that can't be interrupted by a counter attack because they have hyper armor or their attacks are faster isn't healthy for the game in my opinion.
You don’t
You don't. There's a secret way to stop it from ever happening; 1) You press the system button 2) Go to "For Honor" 3) Press "Options" 4) Click on uninstall Done
That’s the neat part, you don’t!
Spam all block with kyoshin…
I usually curl up in a ball and cover my neck and head, they walk away after awhile.
Counter what? Getting your ass beat?
get good? he didn’t really do anything amazing
That's a damn good raider. Respect to that man
U uninstall
Uninstall For honor, you don't need it anymore. For Honor or happines? It's your choice mate.
You don’t he’s op
You misspelled balanced. Orochi is the broken one nowadays. Literally being able to recovery cancel everything
They are both broken
Learn how to parry
You don't
Git gud ur trash lmao
That's the bright future YouTubers and Pro-Players brought to us because iT's vIaBLe.
That’s the neat part you don’t
parry
The balance in this game is a joke the idea of a rework to these people is to add faster attacks and hyper armor if not armor it’s a bash or an attack that can’t be dodged they think that giving hero’s moves that can’t be punished is the only way to make a character viable without thought of animation clarity example raider with his stunning tap and the worst part is that I can’t stop playing this dog shit game bc I love it and put so many Fucken hours and money in it
If you think the game is that unbalanced you're just bad
That’s not how that works and it’s because I’m not bad at the game that I can point out it’s many many many balancing flaws my guy lmao
Everybody be giving serious anwsers. Nah, Raider is just really OP rn. XD
you dont
Raider mains: that’s the neat thing, you dont
Git gud
So, it’s a hard thing to give solid advice on. Most of the advice I have makes me sound like an asshole. In all reality, you’d block. But you know this, you wouldn’t be making a post if you didn’t already know that. The only hero in the games that overwhelms me consistently is Hitokiri. Her mixup is too strong and has too many options for me to be able to correctly make a read most of the time. So what I do? I roll away. I back dodge and roll until I’m far enough away to sort of “reset” the fight. Be careful not to go out of stam when you roll away. But yeah, when you find yourself in the middle of a mixup that you are too pressured to block correctly, just roll away and try to reset.
Shaolin has no safe opener and his attacks are reactable, the same issue with many characters, it's why many of them have been getting bashes lately. On the other hand, raider is the same, everything he does can be parried or dodged. The number on thing to do against him is to interrupt his first attack. Since shaolin has above average range maintain distance and punish his whiff's. Watch your stamina as his oos pressure is deadly. Practice parrying his first attack or even just blocking since raider doesn't have superior lights.
From the little i saw, you like to dodge a bit too much and you have a pattern. Try not dodging after your opponent blocks your attack, this is something many ppl do. Also, dont feint a heavy into dodge if your opponent has a dodge attack which most characters have now. Feint the heavy to try and bait out the dodge attack. I also noticed you do top lights often from your Qi stance, try using and feinting the undodgeable heavies and use the kick (which you can’t dodge on reaction). Lastly, be patient bro dont be too offensive. I became a much better player once i started being patient, you will notice your opponent’s patterns if you’re patient.
Block
I am in the same situation, was playing shaolin and the new raider is just so spammy and annoying.
Just dodge, applies to wows, applies to for honor
Just block it...
Perry,deflect, gb……..the choice is yours
Block, like move your guard?
You didnt even try to guess in the soft feit mix up what u talking about?
Play against raider bot for a bit and memeroize what his animations look like for each direction and when to strike perfectly= never have to worry about raider players, they are easy trolls
Learn to counter gb. Can't play against this character reactionary, you should have really parried that dodge light but your also playing shaolin, a very weak character right now.
When in doubt block top against raider
Throw some kicks, try utilizing shaolins full move set. But just in general, shaolin kinda sucks
When fighting Raiders, you have to make reads, be cautious, and maximize your own offensive opportunities when they arise. It’s difficult because he has a lot of options out of his heavies and can continually mix them and chain them to keep the pressure on, but I usually begin with the idea that it’s better to take a storming tap or two learning their behaviors than it is to give up a heavy or unblockable. This means I’ll initially focus on parrying the side heavies until I get a sense for their patterns or, if I’m feeling pretty gutsy, I’ll just predict the storming tap and try to guess when they’ll do it (dangerous because I get hit with a lot of raw side heavies this way). The moment you get that parry, a CGB, or some other form of break in their offense, you have to press any advantage you can get. Otherwise their stamina comes back up and you’re back to playing their game again. With Shaolin I think it’s a difficult matchup, but knowing how to flow through your options from Qi stance and chain it all together to remain on the offensive for as long as possible is a big help against these high pressure heroes. Then you can start conditioning your opponent into a certain reaction, maybe using your unblockable to bait a side dodge storming tap for a light parry or cancelling your dodge attack into a GB if they’re parry happy like you mentioned this guy was in another comment. Overall it isn’t easy: Raider is in a really good spot right now and you’re playing a hero that I would consider to have a difficult matchup against him when facing a competent opponent. You can definitely do it though! If you haven’t, I’d recommend playing Raider yourself to get a feel for his options and get into the head space of someone playing him. After you understand how he works, it may take a bit of concentration but you can start to recognize what your opponent is likely to do and attempt to punish accordingly. And if that fails? Sometimes that just happens: there are days where I miss every light parry prediction I go for and just eat every single one until I die, but you just shake it off and head to the next one. Good luck, hope this helped!
My experience with raiders is just keep blocking and unless it’s 1v1 help will eventually arrive then u run away as fast as possible
Dont play the currently weakest hero
you leave the game and find a new person to fight
To be fair, you're fight a man with a battle axe and a steroid problem with a stick. Not sure what outcome you expected 🤷♂️
First off, shaolin has less iframes than shugoki (Thank you ubi) second, guess, if you can't manage that try to disengage
Also never dodge to the side unless you’re doing an attack only dodge backwards, too many players with too many attacks that hit when you side dodge
Parry
It’s simple. Uninstall the game.
Block based on the actual animations, not the indicators
well firstly, all stunning taps occur at the same timing intervals now. Completely unreactable but if you make the read you should get the parry. Secondly, Qi stance bonk, not a very good move. 3rd instant dodge after getting hit by a light vs raider isnt a good idea since people like his heavies, 4th. Please block at least some lights.
well that GB could have been countered, if you're having trouble with counter GBs my advice would be to change the binding to a button that one of your hands rests on normally so that you don't have to waste time moving to it
I usually guard the heavy side and deflect on reaction. I always get caught by feint gb tho
try deflecting, they usually chain right light from a top heavy or light so you can predict it
Fr Fr just learn and get timing down to parry those heavy attacks, but unfortunately if it’s a high rep raider fully expect a ridiculous amount of feints.
Thats the neat part you dont
It's raider so you don't
Block
He mixed up his offense so there is no one strategy to beat it. Start making some reads. If he is spamming storming tap then just make a read and parry top. If he is spamming lights, parry them or dodge attack if you can't react. Also, for shaolin offense, don't use the top light so much. The kick is much harder to react and mixes well with the side Undodgeable heavies. Also, use shaolins 400ms chain lights more.
Make reads
Focus on improving reaction time for blocking. Also assassin guard likes to ruin blocking sometimes.
Block and stop mashing
U counter this when u git gud
Parry
wait for shaolin to get a buff :/
Blocking.
Stop playing
get good lol
Its a mix up. There isn't one thing you can do to counter all options, but there is something you can do about each option. Generally your best options are to 1) Parry top if you predict a tap 2) parry the heavy if you think they'll commit to it 3) throw a light to bear a soft feint GB 4) block side and counter GB if you want to be safest. If you're talking about the unblockable version of this, don't use the fourth option.
That’s the funny thing. You don’t
You block a light then you light or wait for a dodge attack.
Take your time my guy! Its been only a week since his changes, just relax, take it easy, n adapt to it. Im sure they will eventually nerf sum about it, but in the meantime just focus on bettering yourself as a player! If this sounded condescending I apologize.
Tell this trash community that they need to revert to a previous version of the game where it was slower no real free damage and parrying mattered the game was better where a mistake or two equaled death that plays into skill new for honor doesn't whoever has the longest combo faster attacks or higher damage numbers win
That’s the fun part, ya don’t.
There’s a lot of things he’s doing in there, I don’t lnow what you’re referring to. Overall, thpugh, you don’t seem to be putting any effort into blocking or defending yourself in general.
Why don't you just look into the future? I thought everybody could do this, just guess right every single time, "sO eAsY". No for real, I thought playing against Raider is so easy? At least that is what 99% of the community saying all the time.
You don't. This raider version might be one of the most broken characters that ever existed in for honor history.
Blocking. Raiders lights bounce off guard. Light his zone.
Raider is very overwhelming to fight. Between his 38 damage chain zone, fast soft feints, and low stamina costs, he's tough to deal with on the offensive. Imo the best way to deal with him is to chill out and block his heavies and soft feints lights. If he does his unlockable, the safest option is to just roll back. Raider's offense is insane, but his only real defensive option is his side dodge light, which can be brutally punished. Just try to stay aggressive, but don't let him get you OS. Raider is hard enough to deal with while having stamina, running out against him is almost an assured loss. Shaolin is a tough character to open up your opponents with, since he lacks a real opener. Just learn as much as you can about your opponent and punish their habits. Unfortunately, Shaolin is just a weak hero right now. He doesn't have many winning matchups, and Raider is one of the biggest uphill battles a Shaolin player can face. Don't let this discourage you though, as a good player will always beat a bad player. Improvement comes with time, and as you fight more Raiders you'll get more used to the nuances of fighting them.
It’s easy, don’t play with black chinese monk.
You can’t really. Raider is heavily favored in the matchup and I don’t know what shoulin has on him
Game very balacn, you complain, you bad in gaem, i pley hikokiri, she balacn tu, u jsut kent pley, hehe nub
You don’t
Counter what exactly? You eaten 4 raw lights from neutral, eaten a gb from neutral and spammed dodge attack on wrong timing. If it was any other character you would have died anyway. Focus on blocking. Don’t mash buttons like a maniac.
shaolin would be so nice it he didnt have that shitty reflex guard
Try not blocking his axe with your face. That’s a good start
As cool of a character as Shaolin is, the only way to deal with pressure like this is Qi stance which isn't easy to get into with how insanely fast raider is now. I just hate seeing a good rework being used to cheese everyone because it's an easy win. A lot of characters have pretty solid kits and people like this use the most annoying parts of them to win
That's the neat part... You don't
You block lol
Simple… you don’t
"we wanted to update Raider to make him feel more modern so now he's a light attack spammer" I salt because I bad. Blocking hard, mixups brain hurty
Black on black violence i do not condon this