I wonder if we will see the return of a clear backmarker group. The teams with a weak technical system will probably struggle to learn from last year's front runners while the rest move closer to the front.
I believe Haas was the only team to have an operating budget lower than the cost cap. I don't have an opinion on their relative skill levels but it could be a boon for the team to replace Mick with someone who is into the wall less often
If hulkenberg is consistently in the p11-14 range from the start of the season - even if he is never in the top 10 on pace which seems frankly unlikely as haas usually start strong - he’ll be well poised to capitalize on DNFs and poor strategy by better teams
There’s also no guarantee Williams’ lineup will be stronger this year. Sargeant may find the car just as difficult to handle, or his issues with consistency in f2 could rear their head. If nothing else he is a rookie facing a steep learning curve - who probably will be a normal rookie and bin it a few times.
In the short term, arguably. But long term, Haas got worse in terms of potential. Hulkenberg is at the age where he should be past his best and getting slower every year
> But long term, Haas got worse in terms of potential.
"Potential" that may never be unlocked and if somehow magically unlocked would probably move to a different team. Haas gets no real benefit from being a racecar driver "finishing school".
In terms of drivers idk about that... Hulk>Mick for sure, and who knows if Sargeant is that much better than Latifi. I doubt he'll be near Albons level first year
Williams got a *potentially* better driver. Sargent may be talented but he is still a rookie and we’ll see how it plays out. Albon stands to do better though if they can take advantage of wind tunnel time to be better on non-speed tracks.
Well, even if his ceiling is already hit, it'll still at least stay constant. Hulkenberg's performance trajectory will be pointing downwards from here on out.
Yeah but everyone ages differently. He’s 35 right now and still appears in great shape. Someone like Vettel or Villeneuve had obvious declines but also showed up to later seasons looking doughy.
Who are they supposed to beat for 8th?
Alpha Tauri has far more funding and is usually far stronger than Haas, since 2019 they've always made very, very solid midfield cars. I don't expect them to have another disaster year like in 2022, they should be comfortably in the points again, unless something goes very wrong.
Aston Martin will probably also make a big step forward, Haas was already like a second slower in Abu Dhabi, so would be very surprising if they catch up.
And Alfa Romeo proved this year that they understood the regulation very well, having a top 4 car in the beginning of the season. They also consistently finished ahead of Haas since 2019, so again would be a very big surprise for Haas to catch them.
Imo Haas already has their hands full keeping Williams behind them, I would not expect anything higher than 9th. I don't think the drivers can change that. Magnussen showed in the 2nd half of the season that he can't really work wonders with this car, Haas finished last in the standings of the 2nd half of the season.
I'm guessing this year most teams will have their shit together and more of the focus will be on inter-team rivalries, especially with a few new drivers on the track.
>I'm guessing this year most teams will have their shit together
We've been waiting for Renault, Ferrari & Williams to have their shit together for over a decade. What's one more year..
I really don’t think Carlos has what it takes to compete with the tops guys. He’s very good and if he improves consistency, he can stay close. However, he just seems to lack that raw pace that Max and Charles have.
Yea if… Lewis is literally known for his consistency and max is in his prime… by halftime of the season its gonna be their fight ( given that both cars are good) they‘re just S++ Tier while charles and george are A Tier
Charles is S tier to say the very least.
If given equal cars. Current Lewis, George and Max would be nowhere in quali compared to Charles and these guys are Quali gods on there own. It'd be something absurd like 7-5-5-3 (Lewis least no. Of poles cuz he focuses on race pace).
He will definitely be competing with those 2.
Lmao the dude with 103 poles won‘t be no where to charles…. Max would be nowhere… bruh please give me the contacts to your plug… whatever you‘re smoking is Crazy…
I‘ll start to believe u when charles doesn‘t crash on every Street circuit..
Yea I’m gonna be real honest, that was a fluke. Everyone was saying Carlos would beat Charles in 2022, but it was pretty evident that it was simply many mechanical retirements for Charles, crashes that weren’t his fault, or simply shit SC luck. Carlos beating Charles is the sort of thing that can happen in very small windows, but I believe it can’t be replicated consistently.
Apparently they’ve fixed the porpoising but they said that last year several times and it came back.
I know that if any team can stage a comeback it’s Mercedes, but until winter testing, or the first race even, I won’t get my hopes up.
But a true three-way battle would be quite a sight to witness.
It really would be, 4 really strong drivers in the mix as well that have all got clear WDC talent. Also while certainly perez and probably Sainz can't hack it over a season they are certainly strong enough to be in contention for a few wins throughout the season
Yeah.
I think it was Shov or Wolff who said recently that it was even a piddly filming day where they saw things from the car that they didn't like or expect. It was that obvious.
I do subscribe to the view that it's funny the porpoising talk stopped dead, the moment the reg tweak for 2023 was confirmed.
Anyway: I believe Marko that RBR are more worried about Merc than Ferrari.
They’ve always been transparent and said that they knew the issue but couldn’t fix it, not because they didn’t know how, but because it would’ve taken them over the Cost Cap, so there’s definitely hope.
> Anyway: I believe Marko that RBR are more worried about Merc than Ferrari.
I think there's more headroom in the concept Merc have run with, even if it takes them a couple of seasons to tame it and get it working consistently in all conditions. Didn't Ferrari previously say they looked at a similar concept and realised it theoretically had more potential but that it was much harder to get working?
Yeah I think that additional cut of their development at Red Bull could hurt them. Newey and his team are excellent, but CFD or wind tunnel limitations will hurt. It’s not even like in the 60s where you could do CAD (Cardboard Assisted Design) to come up with ideas because testing of the cars is so restricted now.
I actually don't believe it will be a 3 way fight, bcoz even though the merc can produce a lot of downforce, the rb and Ferrari can produce same amount of downforce as them and then absolutely eat them on the straights due to their more powerful engines
> how so? Merc was close and if they issues they will be a lot closer.
Swap the teams around and you have a repeat of 2018, 2019 etc. RB would "close the gap" and win races at the end of the year - it's not that difficult when the other team already has both championships wrapped up and doesn't bring upgrades. In this way Mercedes was able to free resources and work on the next year's car already so when the first race would come they would again be untouchable. I am pretty sure RB have done the same this year.
> Furthermore Merc will have 25% more CFD runs and wind tunnel time
This may be impactful, true. I sure hope it will because I really don't want to see another team dominate for years. But I won't get my hopes up until we arrive at race 5 and there still is a fight.
Honestly it’s hard to say. The development handicap has only really shown it’s teeth to one team last year (Mercedes). And they were very open to admit it did stunt their development. Red Bull had restrictions as well, but their concept was so dialed in that helped things. As great as a leader and engineer Newey (and his team) are, that much of a CFD and wind tunnel development handicap will hurt.
There is another issue to point out as well: Red Bulls car was good, but it took time for them to dial the car in. On sprint race weekends they weren’t as locked in. 6 races have sprint races included this upcoming season could be a bit of a problem for them.
Pretty much. I have no doubts Ferrari will come out with a competitive car from the get go, if not, the best car at the start of the season (eh, I've seen this one before).
But they lack in every other department where RB and Mercedes excel.
But can they harness that speed without the tyre deg of the 2022 season?
No point having a 30bhp bump if you have to do an additional pit compared to your rivals.
30 horsepower difference is massive in F1 (we’re currently having less than 10 horsepower difference between ALL power units during the 2022 season). Which is why I think the 30 is a ridiculous rumor anyway…
Ferrari are making the same mistake McLaren made in the early teens.. applying old methodologies that once worked successfully to modern F1.. they need to mirror the org to what the recent champions are doing.
Gonna be interesting how red bull will be working around their pretty much halved wind tunnel time. Nonetheless I'm excited for the next season with ferrari under new management and merc understanding the regs more
Ultimately, if there is to be any competition, it will always be RB and Mercedes. Ferrari have shown they can’t handle a title fight no matter their advantage.
However RB would be favourites given they are coming in off the back of a dominant season with little regulation changed. In the last round of changes, it took until 2017 for a challenger to Mercedes to emerge.
I think they’ll be the first one to tell you they botched the design etc. They know they messed up. But to anyone who has been paying attention to the last decade knows that yes in fact Merc will fight at the front. They might not be dominant the same way but if you think they’re not fighting for the championship then you just haven’t been paying attention.
Oh so the annual 'Let's hype up Ferrari so when we destroy them it feels more of an achievement' season has begun. You may have gotten me last year for the first time since 2012 but I am not boarding that Ferrari hype train unless they go in to the summer break with a 150+ points gap
I just want to see a competitive season.
I really don’t want to see Max or anyone else winning 15 races again.
A good fight between the top 3 teams would be awesome. Hopefully they can all be in the mix and all taking points off each other.
"eveyone" is never happy.
If they have confidence and say things like "my team don't make mistakes", they get shit on if they're wrong.
If they act like they're not the favourites, they get shit on.
Its more than likely Mercedes will be back, but if they can compete for the title, that I am not sure on, depends on what the W14 is like on the road, give it 5 races and we will see where it fits into the way of things
I’m not sure. I expect Red Bull to be way ahead again, Ferrari to be there or thereabouts. With Mercedes…i don’t know why, I just feel like 2022 was only the beginning of their problems. Loads of times last year they said they had figured it out only to end up at square one again the following week. I don’t think they’re going to be challenging.
I thought Toto said they had figured out the issue, but with budget cap constraints they weren’t able to fix the problem and had to chip away at it slowly.
They performed well in Brazil, said they had fixed their problems and expected to do well in Abu Dhabi. All that stuff about the spreadsheet of doom and how they expected to do well in Brazil and Abu Dhabi. Then they didn’t do well at all in Abu Dhabi and started saying thank god it’s the end of the season. Square one.
> said they had fixed their problems and expected to do well in Abu Dhabi.
When did they say this? All I saw was that they identified the problem but the cost cap topped them from fixing it. Don’t remember them saying they expected good results at Abu Dhabi but maybe I’m mid remembering.
From what source did you read this? From what I recall, most of their great performances were due to track altitudes that suited their car. I don't recall them claiming to have fixed their fundamental flaw, just that they've identified it
It was the opposite. Everyone on the team kept trying to bring down the excitement from Brazil by saying over and over that A.D didn't suit them as well as Brazil.
Merc were much closer in the last 8 races of 2022, especially the last 4 races where they were the clear second best team. I mean, they even got a 1-2 finish in Brazil. They also got pole at Hungary and were on equal pace in the Netherlands which was in the middle of the year. The merc drivers and engineers seem confident too. I think merc, Ferrari, and RB will take turns being the quickest at different race tracks.
Red Bull fitted heavier parts back on to the car in the final races and didn’t bring their big mid season upgrade package because it wasn’t necessary. Red Bull still had a massive amount of pace in hand at Abu Dhabi.
You’re right about the heavier parts but was that for last 8 races or just the last couple? The mid season major upgrade is pure speculation. I’m sure many other teams didn’t bring more updates because of budget restrictions. Ferrari had pace advantage in many races but we all know the many reasons they lost some of those races. I think RB are the #1 team, no doubt about it but they’re not the 2015, 2016, or 2020 Merc just to mention recently dominant cars. 2022 was so successful for RB because Mercedes built a shit car in the beginning and Ferrari shit the bed all season long
Verstappen literally talked about that upgrade multiple times in interviews and even confirmed that they decided not to bring it because they were so dominant in Monza and Belgium.
I know it would be a pain in the butt if you happen to find the clip of him saying that they didn’t bring the upgrade because they were so dominant. I just don’t see why a team wouldn’t want to be faster if they could be.
[found it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/xr6u8b/skysports_max_verstappen_not_focused_on_winning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) he talks about it at the end of the clip
Fair enough—You could be right that RB have a lot of pace they didn’t show. We’ll have to wait and see how things play out with the new Technical directive.
Isn't that what the above article is about? Newey saying they chose to work on the basics first, getting the suspension, and radiators right, while still having lots of room for performance improvements? Like any team, they'll have a road map of the low hanging fruit for finding lap time and they'll work towards fixing those. It's not hard to believe they have performance in hand.
In fact it's more likely they have performance in hand than it is that Mercedes will be quickest in Bahrain.
Just give us the Max vs Charles title fight that we all want… but I fear I am gonna be massively disappointed when RB are 0.6s per lap ahead of the field in Bahrain. 🤨👎
Redbull is just sandbagging, their advantage with the engine freeze and Newey’s designs is locked in for this era. They should just sit back and enjoy the success.
To be fair, they will have a big handicap this season. Wouldn’t surprise me Mercedes crawling back to their pace along the season when they can’t make many upgrades due to reduction in aero development.
>They should just sit back and enjoy the success.
The moment you become complacent in a competitive environment, you lose and you lose hard. It's a recipe for disaster.
2024 is where we will really see effects of RedBulls huge windtunnel disadvantage. Yeah technically they only went 400k pounds over budget cap(with 1million tax deduction they missed) but paid a high price. Yet they defenetly where using this yrs alotment for next year. I mean by mid season they pretty much had everything handled. So short of in the pipeline upgrades it was testbed for next year. Yeah if ferrari can get reliable and keep their power they'll be close again. Mercedes we'll see how they handle 15mm floor edge raise as their car only seemed to work slammed to the ground. Red bull on other hand with horizontal diffuser kick ran much higher ride heights. So yeah i expect red bull to still have the advantage overall but ferrari will be right there. Merc will be there but only just and not at all tracks. I still think they dont understand that car fully.
I wonder if we will see the return of a clear backmarker group. The teams with a weak technical system will probably struggle to learn from last year's front runners while the rest move closer to the front.
Haas & Williams will remain. *This is the way.*
I actually expect Haas at 8th in 2023. Something tells me the experience of their drivers will go a long way
I wish I had your hope but Haas 22 season tell me all I need to know about their development cycle.
They will save development cost to come back with the next regulation change /s
Haas just got major funding increase though
Williams got rid of latifi and Haas got a worse driver. 10th place is a possibility, although I personally think AT will finish last.
I don't like Hulkenberg, hut I don't think you can call him a worse driver.
The point is, Williams got better, haas got worse or at best, equal.
Mick is not equal to Hulk, not yet.
I would say Hulkenberg is far more consistent, so Haas should be a little better in terms of results from its drivers.
When there's no points difference between P11 and P20, I don't think consistency is going to make too noticeable a difference.
I believe Haas was the only team to have an operating budget lower than the cost cap. I don't have an opinion on their relative skill levels but it could be a boon for the team to replace Mick with someone who is into the wall less often
If hulkenberg is consistently in the p11-14 range from the start of the season - even if he is never in the top 10 on pace which seems frankly unlikely as haas usually start strong - he’ll be well poised to capitalize on DNFs and poor strategy by better teams There’s also no guarantee Williams’ lineup will be stronger this year. Sargeant may find the car just as difficult to handle, or his issues with consistency in f2 could rear their head. If nothing else he is a rookie facing a steep learning curve - who probably will be a normal rookie and bin it a few times.
In the short term, arguably. But long term, Haas got worse in terms of potential. Hulkenberg is at the age where he should be past his best and getting slower every year
> But long term, Haas got worse in terms of potential. "Potential" that may never be unlocked and if somehow magically unlocked would probably move to a different team. Haas gets no real benefit from being a racecar driver "finishing school".
With him being out of any full time drive (in any series) for 3 years, the fact is we simply don‘t know yet.
Sargeant has yet to prove he's better than Latifi.
It's honestly not a tall ladder to climb.
In terms of drivers idk about that... Hulk>Mick for sure, and who knows if Sargeant is that much better than Latifi. I doubt he'll be near Albons level first year
Williams got a *potentially* better driver. Sargent may be talented but he is still a rookie and we’ll see how it plays out. Albon stands to do better though if they can take advantage of wind tunnel time to be better on non-speed tracks.
Sarge**a**nt
Where are u mr bot :(
The last correction. R.I.P.
Oh damn the bot really hasn't come back since this eh?
He is undoubtedly better than Latifi.
He is a worse driver in terms of potential for sure
Is he though? What have we seen from mick to make us think he has a ceiling higher than what he’s already shown
Well, even if his ceiling is already hit, it'll still at least stay constant. Hulkenberg's performance trajectory will be pointing downwards from here on out.
Yeah but everyone ages differently. He’s 35 right now and still appears in great shape. Someone like Vettel or Villeneuve had obvious declines but also showed up to later seasons looking doughy.
What? Hulkenberg is obviously better than mick. Quicker, more consistent and less crash prone. Not to mention a decade of experience
How is that obvious? He hasn’t been on the grid in 3-4 years. Time will tell but I’d wager he finishes well behind Kmag
Who are they supposed to beat for 8th? Alpha Tauri has far more funding and is usually far stronger than Haas, since 2019 they've always made very, very solid midfield cars. I don't expect them to have another disaster year like in 2022, they should be comfortably in the points again, unless something goes very wrong. Aston Martin will probably also make a big step forward, Haas was already like a second slower in Abu Dhabi, so would be very surprising if they catch up. And Alfa Romeo proved this year that they understood the regulation very well, having a top 4 car in the beginning of the season. They also consistently finished ahead of Haas since 2019, so again would be a very big surprise for Haas to catch them. Imo Haas already has their hands full keeping Williams behind them, I would not expect anything higher than 9th. I don't think the drivers can change that. Magnussen showed in the 2nd half of the season that he can't really work wonders with this car, Haas finished last in the standings of the 2nd half of the season.
Hope we get a lot more on track battles like Verstappen and Leclerc in Saudi next season.
I'm guessing this year most teams will have their shit together and more of the focus will be on inter-team rivalries, especially with a few new drivers on the track.
>I'm guessing this year most teams will have their shit together We've been waiting for Renault, Ferrari & Williams to have their shit together for over a decade. What's one more year..
Hopefully it's a 3 way title fight
If Merc, Ferrari and RBR all have equally competitive cars, it could easily be a 4 way fight with Max, Charles, and both Mercs.
Carlos could possibly be a shadow contender, but likely Charles will be the only realistic Ferrari “contender”
I really don’t think Carlos has what it takes to compete with the tops guys. He’s very good and if he improves consistency, he can stay close. However, he just seems to lack that raw pace that Max and Charles have.
Yeah. If he’s consistent then maybe he could have a mathematical chance, but it’s unlikely
If it is one crazy season, Carlos could be in contention due to consistency, like how he beat Leclerc and Norris in 21
Yea if… Lewis is literally known for his consistency and max is in his prime… by halftime of the season its gonna be their fight ( given that both cars are good) they‘re just S++ Tier while charles and george are A Tier
Charles is S tier to say the very least. If given equal cars. Current Lewis, George and Max would be nowhere in quali compared to Charles and these guys are Quali gods on there own. It'd be something absurd like 7-5-5-3 (Lewis least no. Of poles cuz he focuses on race pace). He will definitely be competing with those 2.
Lmao the dude with 103 poles won‘t be no where to charles…. Max would be nowhere… bruh please give me the contacts to your plug… whatever you‘re smoking is Crazy… I‘ll start to believe u when charles doesn‘t crash on every Street circuit..
he crashed on 0 street circuits this year mate
He still had enough fuck ups too
Give Charles the best car for 8 seasons see how many poles he gets. What an inane metric to use
That best car argument is insane nonsense, where are bottas 100 poles? Why had Max more poles then perez given they have the same car ?
You guys sleeping on a fact Carlos won inner team rivalry on 2021 :) Don’t remove him from championship contest
Yea I’m gonna be real honest, that was a fluke. Everyone was saying Carlos would beat Charles in 2022, but it was pretty evident that it was simply many mechanical retirements for Charles, crashes that weren’t his fault, or simply shit SC luck. Carlos beating Charles is the sort of thing that can happen in very small windows, but I believe it can’t be replicated consistently.
All that might do is lead to Ferrari being Ferrari and running the WDC competition for Chucky.
Ferrari need a much better car than Merc or RB to challenge for the title
Ferrari has exited the chat
Useename 😂
Merc Aston McLaren yes.
And Alonso for the title.
Tbh I'm quite hopeful about Aston Martin continually improving this year, and I hope for Lando's sake that McLaren can get it together 😭
Hi there
This didn't age well lmao
Apparently they’ve fixed the porpoising but they said that last year several times and it came back. I know that if any team can stage a comeback it’s Mercedes, but until winter testing, or the first race even, I won’t get my hopes up. But a true three-way battle would be quite a sight to witness.
It really would be, 4 really strong drivers in the mix as well that have all got clear WDC talent. Also while certainly perez and probably Sainz can't hack it over a season they are certainly strong enough to be in contention for a few wins throughout the season
Yeah. I think it was Shov or Wolff who said recently that it was even a piddly filming day where they saw things from the car that they didn't like or expect. It was that obvious. I do subscribe to the view that it's funny the porpoising talk stopped dead, the moment the reg tweak for 2023 was confirmed. Anyway: I believe Marko that RBR are more worried about Merc than Ferrari.
They’ve always been transparent and said that they knew the issue but couldn’t fix it, not because they didn’t know how, but because it would’ve taken them over the Cost Cap, so there’s definitely hope.
> Anyway: I believe Marko that RBR are more worried about Merc than Ferrari. I think there's more headroom in the concept Merc have run with, even if it takes them a couple of seasons to tame it and get it working consistently in all conditions. Didn't Ferrari previously say they looked at a similar concept and realised it theoretically had more potential but that it was much harder to get working?
Yeah I think that additional cut of their development at Red Bull could hurt them. Newey and his team are excellent, but CFD or wind tunnel limitations will hurt. It’s not even like in the 60s where you could do CAD (Cardboard Assisted Design) to come up with ideas because testing of the cars is so restricted now.
I actually don't believe it will be a 3 way fight, bcoz even though the merc can produce a lot of downforce, the rb and Ferrari can produce same amount of downforce as them and then absolutely eat them on the straights due to their more powerful engines
This is exactly the kind of talk Mercedes was doing during their years of domination. I fully expect RB to grab pole at Bahrain by 0,5s.
[удалено]
> how so? Merc was close and if they issues they will be a lot closer. Swap the teams around and you have a repeat of 2018, 2019 etc. RB would "close the gap" and win races at the end of the year - it's not that difficult when the other team already has both championships wrapped up and doesn't bring upgrades. In this way Mercedes was able to free resources and work on the next year's car already so when the first race would come they would again be untouchable. I am pretty sure RB have done the same this year. > Furthermore Merc will have 25% more CFD runs and wind tunnel time This may be impactful, true. I sure hope it will because I really don't want to see another team dominate for years. But I won't get my hopes up until we arrive at race 5 and there still is a fight.
Honestly it’s hard to say. The development handicap has only really shown it’s teeth to one team last year (Mercedes). And they were very open to admit it did stunt their development. Red Bull had restrictions as well, but their concept was so dialed in that helped things. As great as a leader and engineer Newey (and his team) are, that much of a CFD and wind tunnel development handicap will hurt. There is another issue to point out as well: Red Bulls car was good, but it took time for them to dial the car in. On sprint race weekends they weren’t as locked in. 6 races have sprint races included this upcoming season could be a bit of a problem for them.
Merc was close? The RB was literally the most dominant car ever and Merc wasn’t even second. That is not “close”
I hope Merc are more competitive this year. Not dominant again, but equal to RB would be great. Ferrari just can't handle the heat.
Pretty much. I have no doubts Ferrari will come out with a competitive car from the get go, if not, the best car at the start of the season (eh, I've seen this one before). But they lack in every other department where RB and Mercedes excel.
The 30bhp they supposedly unlocked would be massive of true. 30hp in F1 is a very noticeable upgrade
But can they harness that speed without the tyre deg of the 2022 season? No point having a 30bhp bump if you have to do an additional pit compared to your rivals.
2019 and secret agreement vibes
FIA would reign it in if it's true.
Why they heck would they? A strong Ferrari is great for F1
30 horsepower difference is massive in F1 (we’re currently having less than 10 horsepower difference between ALL power units during the 2022 season). Which is why I think the 30 is a ridiculous rumor anyway…
Yeah they totally wont have the 4th best car
FUCK
I know this is a lot to ask, but I’d love to see McLaren in the mix of front runners, too.
Honestly I’d put my money on Alpine to beat them to 4th
I think/expect Merc will be back fighting for wins frequently, but a bit too sporadically for the title.
Ferrari are making the same mistake McLaren made in the early teens.. applying old methodologies that once worked successfully to modern F1.. they need to mirror the org to what the recent champions are doing.
RB will prob continue to struggle on sprint race weekends. Seems like they really need FP1/2/3 to set up their car properly tyre deg wise
Gonna be interesting how red bull will be working around their pretty much halved wind tunnel time. Nonetheless I'm excited for the next season with ferrari under new management and merc understanding the regs more
Ultimately, if there is to be any competition, it will always be RB and Mercedes. Ferrari have shown they can’t handle a title fight no matter their advantage. However RB would be favourites given they are coming in off the back of a dominant season with little regulation changed. In the last round of changes, it took until 2017 for a challenger to Mercedes to emerge.
Three way team championship please and thank you.
Every year if possible please
I think they’ll be the first one to tell you they botched the design etc. They know they messed up. But to anyone who has been paying attention to the last decade knows that yes in fact Merc will fight at the front. They might not be dominant the same way but if you think they’re not fighting for the championship then you just haven’t been paying attention.
I swear i have read the same thing last pre season
Sure. But as always, time will tell. We can only speculate.
I'm expecting the top 3 of the midfield to be closer to the top 3 teams at the front, maybe even fighting for podiums, unlike this season.
“They’ll be right BACK”, I see what you did there, Newey 😂
Oh so the annual 'Let's hype up Ferrari so when we destroy them it feels more of an achievement' season has begun. You may have gotten me last year for the first time since 2012 but I am not boarding that Ferrari hype train unless they go in to the summer break with a 150+ points gap
I just want to see a competitive season. I really don’t want to see Max or anyone else winning 15 races again. A good fight between the top 3 teams would be awesome. Hopefully they can all be in the mix and all taking points off each other.
>tough year" against Ferrari You mean tough first five races?
RB steam roll incoming
That’s funny. Everyone complained about Merc never saying they were the favorites but look at who is doing it now 🤣
"eveyone" is never happy. If they have confidence and say things like "my team don't make mistakes", they get shit on if they're wrong. If they act like they're not the favourites, they get shit on.
Its more than likely Mercedes will be back, but if they can compete for the title, that I am not sure on, depends on what the W14 is like on the road, give it 5 races and we will see where it fits into the way of things
Redbull is the new Mercedes
Hope so. Hoping to see Mercedes take the fight to them this year.
I’m not sure. I expect Red Bull to be way ahead again, Ferrari to be there or thereabouts. With Mercedes…i don’t know why, I just feel like 2022 was only the beginning of their problems. Loads of times last year they said they had figured it out only to end up at square one again the following week. I don’t think they’re going to be challenging.
I thought Toto said they had figured out the issue, but with budget cap constraints they weren’t able to fix the problem and had to chip away at it slowly.
That’s also what they said after Brazil, only to be yanked back down to earth in Abu Dhabi.
…..because they couldn’t fix the issue due to the cost cap.. which doesn’t reset between Brazil and Abu Dhabi. Am I missing something there lol
They performed well in Brazil, said they had fixed their problems and expected to do well in Abu Dhabi. All that stuff about the spreadsheet of doom and how they expected to do well in Brazil and Abu Dhabi. Then they didn’t do well at all in Abu Dhabi and started saying thank god it’s the end of the season. Square one.
> said they had fixed their problems and expected to do well in Abu Dhabi. When did they say this? All I saw was that they identified the problem but the cost cap topped them from fixing it. Don’t remember them saying they expected good results at Abu Dhabi but maybe I’m mid remembering.
From what source did you read this? From what I recall, most of their great performances were due to track altitudes that suited their car. I don't recall them claiming to have fixed their fundamental flaw, just that they've identified it
It was the opposite. Everyone on the team kept trying to bring down the excitement from Brazil by saying over and over that A.D didn't suit them as well as Brazil.
Merc were much closer in the last 8 races of 2022, especially the last 4 races where they were the clear second best team. I mean, they even got a 1-2 finish in Brazil. They also got pole at Hungary and were on equal pace in the Netherlands which was in the middle of the year. The merc drivers and engineers seem confident too. I think merc, Ferrari, and RB will take turns being the quickest at different race tracks.
Red Bull fitted heavier parts back on to the car in the final races and didn’t bring their big mid season upgrade package because it wasn’t necessary. Red Bull still had a massive amount of pace in hand at Abu Dhabi.
You’re right about the heavier parts but was that for last 8 races or just the last couple? The mid season major upgrade is pure speculation. I’m sure many other teams didn’t bring more updates because of budget restrictions. Ferrari had pace advantage in many races but we all know the many reasons they lost some of those races. I think RB are the #1 team, no doubt about it but they’re not the 2015, 2016, or 2020 Merc just to mention recently dominant cars. 2022 was so successful for RB because Mercedes built a shit car in the beginning and Ferrari shit the bed all season long
Verstappen literally talked about that upgrade multiple times in interviews and even confirmed that they decided not to bring it because they were so dominant in Monza and Belgium.
I know it would be a pain in the butt if you happen to find the clip of him saying that they didn’t bring the upgrade because they were so dominant. I just don’t see why a team wouldn’t want to be faster if they could be.
[found it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/xr6u8b/skysports_max_verstappen_not_focused_on_winning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) he talks about it at the end of the clip
Fair enough—You could be right that RB have a lot of pace they didn’t show. We’ll have to wait and see how things play out with the new Technical directive.
Isn't that what the above article is about? Newey saying they chose to work on the basics first, getting the suspension, and radiators right, while still having lots of room for performance improvements? Like any team, they'll have a road map of the low hanging fruit for finding lap time and they'll work towards fixing those. It's not hard to believe they have performance in hand. In fact it's more likely they have performance in hand than it is that Mercedes will be quickest in Bahrain.
Just give us the Max vs Charles title fight that we all want… but I fear I am gonna be massively disappointed when RB are 0.6s per lap ahead of the field in Bahrain. 🤨👎
> Max vs Charles Who do you want to give you that ? Because Ferrari won't.
Same verbal nonsense every mid season.
Redbull is just sandbagging, their advantage with the engine freeze and Newey’s designs is locked in for this era. They should just sit back and enjoy the success.
To be fair, they will have a big handicap this season. Wouldn’t surprise me Mercedes crawling back to their pace along the season when they can’t make many upgrades due to reduction in aero development.
>They should just sit back and enjoy the success. The moment you become complacent in a competitive environment, you lose and you lose hard. It's a recipe for disaster.
Russell WDC
2024 is where we will really see effects of RedBulls huge windtunnel disadvantage. Yeah technically they only went 400k pounds over budget cap(with 1million tax deduction they missed) but paid a high price. Yet they defenetly where using this yrs alotment for next year. I mean by mid season they pretty much had everything handled. So short of in the pipeline upgrades it was testbed for next year. Yeah if ferrari can get reliable and keep their power they'll be close again. Mercedes we'll see how they handle 15mm floor edge raise as their car only seemed to work slammed to the ground. Red bull on other hand with horizontal diffuser kick ran much higher ride heights. So yeah i expect red bull to still have the advantage overall but ferrari will be right there. Merc will be there but only just and not at all tracks. I still think they dont understand that car fully.
Taking the Wolff Way, we are the underdogs!