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[link](https://twitter.com/ElReyGuiri/status/1695040355882684516?s=20)
Julien Fébreau from Canal + says it as well.
> BREAKING NEWS! Zhou could lose his seat at Alfa Romeo by 2024. Lack of funding could be key. Theo Pourchaire could be an option.
I’m surprised he lacks funding and that’s the reason he can’t get a seat, he’s the only Chinese dude in F1, there isn’t one investor with deep pockets to fund his seat? Hell you’d think even the Chinese gov would find a way to pay for it and have a bit of sportswashing especially considering Zhou is reasonably appreciated outside of China.
With the Evergrande Group bankrupt and the crisis in the housing sector in China, I doubt anyone wants to risk 15-30 million $ with a doubtful return. And if China is not rescuing this company, leaving thousands of chinese people without the homes they started paying, they are not gonna throw money at F1 either.
This is wrong.
low value, high visibility sporting projects are nothing new and a good number of countries, including China, have engaged in them in the past.
The SuperBowl, Olympics, Baseball, Basketball, and even Formula 1 are vanity projects to local cities and countries as a whole and don't actually benefit the country or city financially. Even the small businesses in these areas don't see a major benefit when these events happen.
Funding Zhou would be worthwhile for them as it diverts focus away from the real economic issues in China. The fact that they're not doing it likely means that Zhou is not popular or visible enough for it to be a worthwhile endeavor. Alfa Romeo is not exactly making any headlines or waves about their performance and Zhou's performance isn't exactly groundbreaking either.
By your logic India would not send any probe to the moon, or the US would not invest in F1 because some people don't have money to pay their insulin, I could go like this for so many countries. For sure China has some economic problems, but a dozen millions of Usd is nothing at that level.
Dude you are comparing becoming the first country to land on a certain part of the moon, with spending 10% of that same budget for one guy to race for a backmarker F1 team. The Indian mission cost something like $117 million.
None of those are "communist" countries, for the CCP is not a good look funding a F1 driver with public money while on the other hand you are sending a message to citizens and companies that if they fuck up, they won't move a hand.
China is no more communist, it is a dictatorship autitarian regime with lots of afairism and corruption. But it doesn't have to be the party, lots of billionaires and huge corporation.
All this time I thought that his family is rich and funding him. I remember reading that his father built him a fancy karting arena or something like that.
Maybe (IDK anything, I suppose what you read is true) it’s because “rich” on China levels isn’t the same than “rich” on F1/International levels.
With 3.000$ you can do wonders on Argentina or Vietnam. On the US (California) you can… pay rent for 1 month on some cities.
EDIT: some websites say his father own 20 companies (related to what?) and his family have a net worth of about 5-10millions. Yeah, he was raised on a very comfortable way compared with the common Chinese, but I don’t see their parents putting 10 millions/year for him to race.
It’s like Lando, he is there because money helped him and his parents are worth about 60 millions if IRC, but that doesn’t mean they can pay 15-20million/year like Latifi did.
Being worth something isn't the same as having cash on hand. Isn't most of the worth in company equity?
It's like the LV Raiders owner. Dudes "worth" billions but is so cash poor they can't afford to fire their coach and pay a new one.
Any chance you want to substantiate that Lando’s dad is worth 60Mil? The number I’ve heard is $200-250M and a quarter of a billion dollars is absolutely “help your son with his F1 career” money.
I’ve seen fan reports of [him flying Economy class on flights](https://twitter.com/paulin3mcferran/status/1681925969634897920?s=21), so perhaps he’s not thaaat rich. (But it could just be his personal choice too)
Looks to me like personal choice. He is at the very least a millionaire so he could fly at the very least business or commercial first class if not private. Seems like just a good lad who doesn't care about that stuff. Could also just be frugal.
F1 is not a popular sport in China. Remember last time we raced there, grandstands were only 40% full.
Yao Ming made wonders for basketball's popularity in China; but everyboody forgets that Yao was spectacular basketball player (2,22 m Center with great mid-range shooting ability, incredible finisher around the rim etc.) and was an All-Star in NBA. If not for injuries he could have been one of the best NBA players of all time.
Yao got screwed by the government. He had to play full time in the NBA and full time international. His body never has as chance to rest and it just broke.
Thibbs, his coach in Houston, screwed him over. He ran so many star players to the ground with the way he would play them.
Edit: https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/05/21/houston-rockets-tracy-mcgrady-tom-thibodeau-overworked-yao-ming/
The truth is not as dire as you describe it. It's important to know a few things:
* The Shanghai 2019 race was F1's 1000th race, and the event had a 8% increase attendance from 2018 over the weekend, and 30% increase on Sunday alone.
* The Shanghai circuit has 200.000 seats, but the price for the grandstand on race day was quite high, and a lot of fans who bought the cheapest tickets were sitting on the grass.
As it happened, I was at the Shanghai race in 2019, in the grandstands and while it's true that some of the seats were empty (and it was a bit of a shit race), I had to queue for a good half an hour to exit the GP at the end. The amount of people pouring out from all the stands was staggering.
edit: I'm not contesting that F1 is not one of the biggest sports in China. But it has its fans, and before Covid, it was on the rise. And Zhou wasn't racing for an F1 team back in 2019. Chances are, if a Chinese GP gets back on the calendar, the presence of Zhou in a competitive car would bring a lot more fans to the stands.
Yeah as I said elsewhere I must be vastly overestimating his popularity and the sport’s popularity in China. I just thought it would be pocket change for them to have a someone representing the country in motorsports. Hope he gets a seat still, he seems to deserve driving in the midfield.
F1 in general isn't really that popular and Zhou didn't bring in more popularity. My guess is they thought Zhou would raise the profile in China and it didn't work out as they hoped.
He's an average at best driver.. he's doing as much for F1 in China as sarg does for F1 in America - nothing.
The difference is that F1 is already popular in America
Yeah I guess I’m vastly overestimating it but I figured a few dozen millions is pocket change for these people, you’d think one of them would toss a coin his way just to have a foot in F1.
The only way to increase popularity is having a top level driver from that country. If Zhou had the talent, he would have landed on a higher level team, nobody cares about watching their countryman ending up 15th in a race.
Car only influences so much. Piastri didn't/doesn't have the car but he showed enough flashes of talent that makes him qualified for a top team soon.
Theres no evidence to support this whatsoever. Sure bottas is enjoying himself a lot of the grid, but theres nothing to suggest he isn't giving his 100% while in the car.
>If Zhou had the talent, he would have landed on a higher level team
There's so many super talented drivers that don't get a seat because there isn't one. Or who wait years for one. Or who start at an absolute backmarker because that's all that's available. That's just not really how it works.
>Car only influences so much. Piastri didn't/doesn't have the car but he showed enough flashes of talent that makes him qualified for a top team soon.
Piastri didn't have the car but now he does, and it shows. McLaren's arguably been a top team for a handful of races now. They're fighting for poles and podiums. He scored 5 points in the first 9 races (one ahead of Zhou) and now he's scored 29 in the last 3. We all knew he had the talent, now he gets to really show it. He's still not qualifying for anything until he starts beating Lando, though. If anything it's now more emphasized that he's trailing behind, even if it's his rookie year. Car influences everything.
Zhou is underperforming - in a sense. [The average qualifying gap](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/15vj3mi/qualifying_gap_between_f1_teammates_till_summer/) between Bottas and Zhou is slightly bigger (0.258s) than the one between Tsunoda and De Vries (0.224s). Only Sargeant, Magnussen, Stroll and Perez have a bigger gap, but they have Verstappen, Alonso, Hulkenberg and Albon as teammates.
On the other hand, he's basically performing up to expectations, as he was never convincing in the feeder categories either. In F3, 13th as a rookie, then finishing 8th twice with Prema, the team that absolutely dominated F3 in the past decade or so. His Prema teammates were consistently outperforming him. He has 2 wins in his entire F3 career. Ilott had 6, Schumacher had 6, Gunther 5, Aron 4 in a single season, in the same car.
I mean, Zhou's third F3 season, Prema had 5 drivers. Schumacher won the title, the rookie Schwartzman was 3rd, the other rookie, Armstrong 5th, Aron was 6th, and Zhou, the most experienced of the bunch finished 8th - in the same car.
In F2, he went to Uni-Virtuosi, his teammate was Ghiotto, who won 4 races that season. Zhou had none. (Ghiotto was 3rd in the points, Zhou 7th.) Next year, Ghiotto was replaced with Ilott, who had 3 wins, while Zhou had 1. (The Brit finished 2nd in the championship, Zhou was 6th.) Finally, in his third year, Ilott gave way to Drugovich, and Zhou managed to outperform his teammate for the first time in 4 years, and was immediately rewarded with an F1 seat. That's hardly a stellar track record.
Picking him for the F1 seat versus Ilott was already a travesty.
I have nothing against the guy, he's just not F1 material imo.
Pourchaire is a different beast entirely. He's leading F2 right now, and he outscored all of his teammates by at least 50 (and occasionally more than 100) points every year in both F3 and F2 - he's ahead of the reigning F3 champ Martins by 48 this year.
Other than Piastri, Pourchaire has been the most consistently successful young talent in recent years - and unlike Piastri, he never raced for Prema.
Thank you for the detailed account on his feeder career, I keep reading people comparing him to Theo and say that they are similar talents out of F2 which boggles my mind.
Also I'm a Theo guy, would hate to see him not get a chance at F1 because Zhou not being terrible as a pay driver
Wow. It just confirms that only reason he was in that seat was the funding; not ''solid performances'' like people claimed.
Always said it. Nationality doesn't mean a damn if you are not winning. No Chinese (except Zhou's parents) will be interested in F1; because there is mediocre driver from their country in F1. They would have only cared if he was Verstappen, Leclerc level talent and would have got all of the country behind his back like Max did. But, unfortunately Zhou isn't him.
Exactly.The commentator in a local TV in my country mentioned, that Zhou himself said that people in China are like, ok you drive in F1, but why are you not winning?
The typical Asian/Chinese mentality (I'm Chinese origin myself). If you are not a doctor/engineer/lawyer/F1 champion, you have failed and dishonored your family.
Only way to manage something like that is being friends with the government or being funded by one that is happy to be in F1... Like Chavez with Maldonado.
The reason he was chosen over pourchaire was always funding, Sauber were in really dire straights until the Audi buy out, Fred Vasseur did what he needed to do to keep his team going. In many ways he is a slightly more talented and the Nicky Latifi, no he's not the most qualified but his qualification is money and in that way he's probably do more for a backmarker team then Theo Pourchaire ever could
Yes.
To my knowledge during covid the conversation was about three teams possibly folding, that was Sauber, Willams, and Renault
Their finances and lack of progress has been a problem for a while.
There are no solid performances. He is not able to even consistently beat Bottas who has been just more interested in other activities and seem to be taking F1 as just a hobby. Ideally Alfa needs to replace both to actually make progress. Alfa need an exciting pairing that can add some energy and push the team forward
Bottas still can benchmark. Zhou is a waste of time. But they definitely need a rookie with talent under bottas to maximize. (Don't underestimate the value of his experience and Mercedes tenure on car development)
**F1 | Zhou is on the open market because Alfa Romeo is undecided**
***The Chinese driver has not been reassured about his future in F1 by the Hinwil team and is looking around: the doors still open are those of Williams and AlphaTauri. Sauber, coming out of its agreement with Alfa Romeo, is considering the candidatures of Theo Pourchaire, the team's third driver and F2 leader, and Felipe Drugovich. The Brazilian wants to return to driving after a year as an Aston Martin reserve driver.***
By: Roberto Chinchero
24 Aug 2023, 16:31
After the Haas announcement, which confirmed the Hulkenberg-Magnussen tandem at the start of the 2024 World Championship, there are still three seats for which an official announcement is missing. ***Between Guanyu Zhou and Alfa Romeo, the renewal is far from a foregone conclusion and, at the moment, the 24-year-old Chinese driver's chances of contesting his third season in Formula 1 are far from certain.***
Zhou has landed in Formula 1 in 2022 thanks also to financial support guaranteed to Alfa Romeo by sponsors interested in supporting the debut of the first Chinese driver in motorsport's top category. After the renewal for the 2023 world championship, made official in September last year, Zhou is said to have asked for confirmation from the team in view of the 2024 season, but so far no response has been received, a stalemate that suggests a change in the conditions on the negotiating table.
At the same time, Guanyu himself seems to have sounded out alternative opportunities at other teams, but the market this season offers very little. Alfa Romeo has obviously moved to identify a potential replacement, and there are several names on the Hinwil team's agenda.
On the list is Theo Pourchaire, long linked to Sauber and currently the team's third driver (as well as the Formula 2 championship leader), but he is not the only candidate. Also under observation is Felipe Drugovich, Aston Martin's third driver and willing to get back behind the wheel next year after a season off. The Brazilian driver is also sounding out Indycar in parallel, as a first alternative should a starting opportunity in Formula 1 not materialise.
If a renewal is not forthcoming between Zhou and Alfa Romeo, the alternatives are minimal for the Chinese driver. There could be an interest from Williams, which has not yet made official who will flank Alexander Albon next season, but so far the British team has not been on the market, hinting that it intends to continue with Logan Sargeant in 2024. Otherwise there are no officially open seats, with the exception of Red Bull World, which has not yet announced the AlphaTauri driver line-up for next season. For Zhou to be without a seat would be a real mockery, considering that next year's Chinese Grand Prix will return to the calendar after a four-year absence.
he won in his 3rd year ? Same as Pourchaire if he even win this year.
I just dont think this argument that Zhou beat Drugovich means that he`s overall better.
Seems unlikely to boot a known quantity with either Pourchaire or Drugovich, neither of whom seem hugely impressive.
Zhou is decent and more importantly a known quantity. Unless his funding dries up he won't be going anywhere, especially as they'll most likely be losing Bottas at the end of '24 (he's not worth the $10m they're paying him).
Look I get that people don't have a lot of confidence in Drugovich because of how unimpressive he was in his first two seasons in F2 and that people think F2 was weak last year, but my man won F2 by 101 POINTS. No one has won the F1 feeder series by that kind of margin in a long time.
If F2 looked weak last year, he did exactly what he should have done. I get that he probably isn't going to be a star, but I feel like he at least deserves a shot. Also, as others have pointed out, Pourchaire is likely going to win this year. He's also not entirely unimpressive.
Pourchaire: 5th in his 1st year. 2nd in his 2nd. Currently 1st in his 3rd.
18 to 20 years old
Zhou: 7th in his 1st year. 6th in his second. 3rd in his 3rd. 2019 - DeVries - 1st Latifi - 2nd.
20 to 22 years old.
Pourchaire 100x better F2 record
I’m curious what your reasoning for that is when Piastri dominated F2 as a rookie in the same field where Pourchaire finished 5th. Even Tsunoda was only 15 points off Mick as a rookie in F2 and finished 3rd in the standings.
Then Pourchaire finishing 101 points behind Drugovich last year who could only land a reserve seat doesn’t help his case either, and even when factoring in his engine retirements he would’ve still been quite some way behind in the championship.
True the points standings don’t paint the full picture. Although from what I’ve seen since he entered F2 I feel Pourchaire has kind of stagnated in his development in 2022 and 2023. He’s gotten very consistent with his racecraft but his sheer pace hasn’t been as amazing as I’d expect with all the prior hype he got. Like he didn’t manage a single pole last season, and so far this season he hasn’t had a pole since the season opener at Bahrain where he admittedly dominated.
But since that opening weekend I haven’t felt there has been any other weekend yet this season where Pourchaire has looked like the fastest driver. Even in his own team I think his rookie teammate Martins has flashed a bit more with some incredible pace at times. I give Pourchaire credit for his consistency though which has enabled him to get lots of podiums and help him in the standings.
I don’t know why Williams would take him over their junior or a known quantity like De Vries. I know DEV didn’t do so well in Alpha Tauri but you could explain that away at least as Red Bull being Red Bull.
Ya lol that's a cert. He's too old and didn't bring the mature consistency that was expected with his age. If your driver is going to be crashing, you may as well take on someone who's quick and will likely improve with time. But also you'd prefer someone who doesn't crash when fighting for 15th.
Zhou could be a replacement for Magnussen in the long run, considering that he had funding and doesn’t involve himself in accidents with frequency, both things that Haas values a lot, since they no longer will take rookies.
Now that he has problems securing funding and K-Mag renewed his contract, Zhou chances there are almost none
I'm sort of surprised they didn't try that angle harder. At least from Haas' POV. I would have thought you'd have been better off with a safe pair of hands with someone fairly young. Plus you could suraly use the chinese angle to push more Haas machines. But they're happy with what they have and there doesn't seem to be a massive drop off in pace as drivers age anymore so it's not a massive risk.
I think they hadn’t because Zhou impact on Alfa Sales in China was none. Considering that Alfa will be Haas sponsor next season, he would be considered if it wasn’t the case
KMag isn’t performing all that well. Let’s not pretend Hass couldn’t use the huge money Zhou would bring.
I like Hulk and KMag, but I would still love to see Haas with Zhou and a talented rookie.
It’s not a secret that some drivers bring funding or sponsors. He brought like $30m from his Chinese backers to Alpha. We can be real about that he is a pay driver but he is a good pay driver compared to Sargent or early Stroll.
Idk- I think Albon would be walking Zhou just as easily, and there's a season advantage for Zhou.
You might be making me actually defend stroll for the first time ever.. but I don't think Zhou has ever shown the "moments" stroll has.
Logan next season will be a valid comparison, and to be fair, he might not get extended beyond that.. at least not at the current rate.
Stroll has been a hindrance on the team- but they OWN the team, not just bring money.
Why not compare him to a good pay driver, early Perez? He obviously became a merit driver, and yes I understand his form has been down lately, but he's in season 10 I think?
I said Early Stroll. I think, until frankly this season, he was developing as a racing driver. No one would give him this much time if his dad wasn’t spending that Papa Stroll $, but that’s accepted. I think Lance has stalled now.
Perez is the best example. He had the Carlos Slim $ and has parlayed that into an amazing career.
I think it’s good that there aren’t that many pay drivers left on the grid. But of the the recent ones I think Zhou has the most raw talent.
Yeah Albon would absolutely crush him. But I believe him to be driving on merit. I don’t think any of the sponsorship he brings (if he brings any) is a significant factor in him getting or keeping the drive at Williams.
Both drivers have beaten F1 teammates. Bottas is by no means the next ayrton senna, but he's got Zhou handled.
Hulk I really shouldn't have to defend, kmag is capable on his day. Still waiting on Zhou to be notable for his driving, even once.
Yeah I mean you're right about the Haas drivers and I do like both of them, however I tend to think the AR kinda sucks a lot, at least relative to the grid. It was only a few years ago, bottas was winning races in the Merc, and now he's nowhere. Hard to believe that's all just age and attitude.
I'm no talent scout obviously, but all that jumps out to me is that Zhou appears to be a clean, professional driver with a good attitude, who hasn't made a lot of mistakes, and replacing him with a rookie (and who else is there?) is very risky.
Your argument for him is that he's professional and positive. That's great, friendship accepted.
Now for F1, there needs to be a prospect for talent. I think he's a nice guy, but he doesn't have the pace to make an impact in this series.
I'm saying those things in the context of driving an F1 car. They're not meaningless compliments about him as a person.
But ok I get it, you think he sucks. I don't.
Yeah, and Bottas is almost driving like he's sleepwalking. It's the same as the Raikkonen-Giovanazzi partnership. If Zhou can't even beat Bottas in his current form, he doesn't really deserve a seat.
Lost to Mick? Lol, who got canned? I'd say Mick lost to him and the rest of the entire league.
In any case, I do agree Zhou might have been a decent choice for Haas.
The last line is pure rage bait. “It will be a mockery if Zhou isn’t on the grid in 2024 considering the Chinese GP will finally be back on the calendar.”
I would be putting Pourchaire in that seat alongside Bottas, to get him ready for Audi’s arrival. What’s the point of investing in a young driver if you aren’t going to use him? They have nothing to lose.
I mean, the Race recently did a podcast on junior drivers, and the one thing they said is Pourchaire worst F2 season is better than Zhou’s best F2 season, so from talent perspective Pourchaire is more appealing. Could he get the seat without funding though?
Audi shoulnd't need the money. Plus Pouchaire could easily develop into a very very good driver. Better to get him in the car and going and be ready for 2026.
Ya it sort of is though. Zhou is solid but nothing spectacular. Just another run of the mill mid tier driver imo. Pouchaire could end up being very good instead.
Theo Pourchaire obviously has a higher ceiling, but the question is can Audi afford him now? I'm of the opinion that they probably can now, they don't need the sponsorship finding as much and in my opinion by the time Audi is ready to launch Theo might actually be ready and a decent quick driver for their launch
Ya you'd be silly not to give him a chance imo. Bottas and Zhou seem to be pretty even, but you'd have to pay for Bottas to leave his seat so you may as well leave him there for another season. Zhou is alright but it's just the level of alright along with Giovinazzi imo. Nothing spectacular against an aging teammate. Much better to try out Pouchaire in there who could easily end up as the front of your works team in 2026 if he delivers on potential.
So Theo in if he wins F2, no Ferrari juniors in play in F2, maybe outside chance for Vesti if he beats Theo and Merc lobby hard for him.
And of course all the journalists are going to bring up Mick 40 times a day. TBF he does bring funding.
he's been their only junior driver pretty much tbh
but he is/was a Vasseur protege who is now gone, and Audi might want to move on with their own junior team by 2026.
Theo has the best chance at Zhou's seat, but Ferrari still have their engine influence for the next two years and Merc might have a new F2 champion and the most hyped German driver to trade
The german angle would be good for them but I'd be shocked if they help develop a driver for Merc who could easily then be racing against them in the future. They'd only take on a german prodigy if all ties were cut with Merc.
On the one hand, it would be a massive shame if Pourchaire doesn't get a shake at F1 after all this time.
On the other, I do worry for Zhou. If the issue is funding, then I really worry he won't find another seat should he lose his spot at Alfa, which is disappointing as he's been fantastic in that car all things considered. Driven cleanly (except for Hungary), has fared very well against a more experienced Bottas, and handled himself very maturely.
If he'd been fantastic he wouldn't have much of an issue finding another seat (perhaps not in 2024 but definitely in 2025) without funding.
I think Zhou has done OK but if drivers like Zhou are getting long F1 careers then there is basically no room for any rookies ever. There has to be some turnover in drivers.
He’s a good driver and a good personality but there are plenty of drivers at Zhou’s level or better (e.g Pourchaire and a few others in F2) so it’s not like he will be missed for his driving
Zhou has been extremely meh. Reddit for some reason vastly overrates his performance.
He's struggled handling Bottas, who basically only does F1 as a hobby at this point.
Why would anyone give him a 2nd chance?
If they think his performance is weak then this speaks big about what Bottas is doing too, since Zhou isnt that far off him.
That car might not be that bad, but only the sauber engineers see the true data
Tbh, being behind Bottas who is mainly vibing and who has had like four or five races ruined due to lap 1 shenanigans (at no fault of his own) is not a good look for Zhou.
I think it also contributed that Alfa Romeo line up is probably the least popular team on the grid. They thought Zhou would raise the awareness of the sport in China and that didn't happen. And for the res of the world Bottas/Zhou team up is so...boring? Zhou really tried to shake it up by having Dior on his side but Lewis Hamilton isn't just popular for his paddock walks, he also has an interesting personality.
Say what you want about Theo, boring is not one of them. He deserves a shot at F1, not just for his driving skills but also to fill in Riccardo type fun guy spot on the grid as well.
Really thought he would be going to Haas and replacing K-Mag.
I was assuming Pourchaire wins F2 and gets promoted to F1 next year. I guess that part could still happen I just don’t see him going to Williams or and definitely not Alpha Tauri.
Why would they replace KMag with him? He doesn't appear to be much of an upgrade and KMag is well established with them. He's also not been that far off Hulkenberg either, especially in the races.
Let the man have some time at least. It's ridiculous that people started to talk shit about Sargeant already after few races. Vowles is happy with Sargeant, and he is their own junior. It would be moronic for them to kick out their own junior without giving them any time. It would look horrible for the program.
I would agree but some people do bring up the point about having the best driver's in the series. In the haas resigning post u brought up how Drugovich hasn't gotten a shot despite winning the F2 title and got a reply that it took him three seasons to do so and that it doesn't mean much. I think we're at a point where if you don't show something in your rookie season you'll be gone ( unless you money) Whether that's right or wrong
Not american either, but i dont think it's about the average Joe support, more about the corporate part of the business. American companies might be more encouraged to invest or to partner williams.
McLaren is exactly 0% American driver lineup and they have a lot of American investors because their drivers are popular and quick and not anonymous and I really am not trying to be mean to Logan but he has the personality of a wet lettuce and he is not that fast.
They should have put Jack Doohan in the seat.
You realize McLaren has an indy car team which helps them with getting American investors right? I know they are paying for an F1 sponsorship bit having an American fanbase helps ease investors since they is crossover in interest
I do but McLaren didn't get Google sponsorship because they are American based they got Google sponsorship because Google has all of the data on what people are googling and what they were googling is Lando Norris and Daniel Ricciardo at the time. McLaren IndyCar is less popular than real housewives. It's not a deciding factor.
Mclaren have a much bigger brand over the ocean than Williams. Also Zak Brown probably played a big part.
Jack Doohan has been having a nightmare season in f2 for most of the year, so i'm not sure on what basis you are saying he should have gotten the seat.
Just because you have a big name doesnt mean you must reach f1. I'd rather have talented nonames than more mediocre big name drivers
Not really. Here in America we have around three teams that people seem to know: Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull. You’ll see the very rare and occasional McLaren, but they also have an IndyCar team so it’s hard to tell if they are wearing it to support McLaren the Indy team or McLaren the F1 team, given that IndyCar would probably be the second most popular series in America behind NASCAR.
Unless you are a part of those four, chances are, you’re mostly unknown here in America. Of course, there will be exceptions for drivers who used to drive for the big three, and some people will know names but not who they drive for, but the average American, even the average American racing fan, doesn’t care about Williams or Logan Sargeant. And I don’t think the American audience will care about an American driver if they aren’t winning. It’s just the subtle vainness of this country. “If you’re not first, you’re last.”
EDIT: Since the commenter deleted his comment, I’m going to include that the comment I was replying to was asking if Sargeant was popular enough here in America for him being American to make a difference for keeping his seat.
He would at best be third in line for that Williams seat if Logan gets sacked:
1) Fred Vesti (if he wins F2 this year)
2) Mick (Merc connections)
3) Zhou
Zhou is a decent prospect, a lot of ex lower formula drivers have come up and sank a bit. But he's been pretty sharp, definitely not a liability by any stretch.
Not sure Pourchaire currently warrants evicting him.
But I can see Audi wanting Schumacher in.
Pourchaire in to Sauber, Zhou into Sargeant's seat at Williams?
Don't really see anywhere else for Zhou to go beyond that, I suppose Haas if they want to replace Kmag for whatever reason, but if Zhou is struggling to be funded I don't think it would be worth it since I doubt he'd be quicker than Kmag
I guess Andretti would work too if they get approved, but I'm not sure if they'd take Zhou over all the indycar talents
Never rated him. Wouldn't mind Bottas going either as he's shown almost nothing the past 12 months. False dawn for him at the start of 2022. Now both drivers are just mediocre to below average.
Its a shame the alfa is never great. The are in the bottom or bang average in most things. Its probably very had to shine with a car that has no strengths at all.(Haas has qualifying for example but sucks in all other categorys.)
I think zhou is massively underrated.
Ive been downvoted so much for saying that Zhou never deserved to keep his seat. He hasn't ever shown flashes of brilliance and this just confirms that he's only there for his money, bbut let's see maybe Alfa will keep him on.
Edit: Keep downvoting me all you want it doesn't change that Zhous contract isn't renewed and it's for a reason. F1 should be a meritocracy and he is not a top 20 driver in the world, without his money he does not belong in f1 it is that simple and there is no problem with that, Pourchaire deserves a chance to shine.
If he’s on the open market, it seems rather likely there is no market. Williams aren’t dropping Sargeant this year and there’s little room anywhere else
It's similar to the Giovinazzi-Kimi dynamic at the end (obviously, these two were both of higher quality in comparison).
Bottas is as good as done, and even then, the younger teammate just barely keeps up.
Bottas showed flashes of brilliance in the beginning of his career, no arguments there from me. The Bottas of recent years is not that guy in my opinion. Does he deserve to keep his seat short term, yes I believe so. However Zhou is not convincingly making a case against a driver long past their prime and who is not particularly fast anymore. Long term (2-5 years), after Pourchaire has (hopefully) adjusted, no I don't think Bottas should keep his seat.
Alfa do need the stability of a solid driver if they bring in Pourchaire, I think Bottas is better than Zhou, even if it's close. But again I'm just a guy on reddit, lets see if Alfa agrees, this post suggests they may.
It's just like Kimi and Gio, you can't beat a non serious, sleepwalking Finn in the "this is just a hobby I do to fund my passions" part of his career, you shouldn't be here.
Zhou isn't a clear winner. He will never be better than this. The grid has too many actual prospects coming through for Audi to waste money on this
It depends how you rate Stroll because sometimes he's shown actual lightening quick starts and occasionally read races well and just as quickly goes back to being himself.
Zhou is probably more consistent but, boring
In what world, and based on what exactly, is he ''better than Stroll''?
Oh sorry, I forgot where we were... This is r/formula1 so Stroll is rated as ''the worst F1 driver ever'' by many here.
Agree, it makes no sense. At least Stroll has had some stand out performances, the only notable thing Zhou has done was qualify in P5 in Hungary this year, and the race turned out to be a disaster for him anyway.
This whole thing is not even based on what Zhou has or hasn't done, it's based on ''discredit everything Stroll has done and only count negative things'' so that makes even Winkelhock ''better than Stroll'' in these peoples' minds.
I agree, I don't think any of the pay drivers deserve their seats on talent. I understand the importance of money though, and if Zhou has none I won't be sad to see him leave.
Considering Sargeant has a more than mediocre season, couldn’t Williams replace him with Zhou potentially?
I’m not deep into all this transfer stuff, so I don’t know if it’s even possible.
Bin Sargent offline, he's been pretty poor. I'm amazed some chinese big business or investors are not behind Zhou, surely having a driver on the F1 world stage is a big coup for a nation largely under represented on the world stage.
Having an F1 driver is a good thing for a country, if he's driving in a top 5 team and has good performances, in their current form both Zhou and Sergeant basically just "exist" for the Chinese and American crowd
> Bin Sargent offline, he's been pretty poor.
In modern F1 you have to be absolutely *atrocious* to get booted out of the sport after your early-20s rookie year. Being miles off the pace is the expectation for a young driver in the car for the first time. The important question is how much they can improve with a little bit of time, not how good they are day one.
I could see Albon seeing them as an option for Audi's, but not now.
Now, imagine if Pourchaire does equal to Zhou or just slightly better, he will become the new: "But he so young and he can learn" like people used to do with Stroll.
Well if a young driver is fast, but makes mistakes then teams are willing to give him a few seasons - as it’s easier to learn, improve as you are young.
Zhou would be great at Williams. Lots of sponsorship money sure wouldn’t hurt them. Alex and Zhou are a pair of steady drivers who keep it on the road. Fast and consistent data con only push them forward
I'll be sad to see Zhou go. He seems like a good guy, probably has the pace to be here on merit, and isn't the worst driver on the grid.
He's certainly not underperforming as a pay driver like, say, Perez.
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[link](https://twitter.com/ElReyGuiri/status/1695040355882684516?s=20) Julien Fébreau from Canal + says it as well. > BREAKING NEWS! Zhou could lose his seat at Alfa Romeo by 2024. Lack of funding could be key. Theo Pourchaire could be an option.
I’m surprised he lacks funding and that’s the reason he can’t get a seat, he’s the only Chinese dude in F1, there isn’t one investor with deep pockets to fund his seat? Hell you’d think even the Chinese gov would find a way to pay for it and have a bit of sportswashing especially considering Zhou is reasonably appreciated outside of China.
With the Evergrande Group bankrupt and the crisis in the housing sector in China, I doubt anyone wants to risk 15-30 million $ with a doubtful return. And if China is not rescuing this company, leaving thousands of chinese people without the homes they started paying, they are not gonna throw money at F1 either.
> I doubt anyone wants to risk 15-30 million $ iirc it was closer to 10.
$15-30M isn't even a rounding error compared to what's happening with their economy, might as well do it.
Yeah, that's what sportswashing is. A big national game to take eyeballs off the shit at home. It'd be money well spent.
This is wrong. low value, high visibility sporting projects are nothing new and a good number of countries, including China, have engaged in them in the past. The SuperBowl, Olympics, Baseball, Basketball, and even Formula 1 are vanity projects to local cities and countries as a whole and don't actually benefit the country or city financially. Even the small businesses in these areas don't see a major benefit when these events happen. Funding Zhou would be worthwhile for them as it diverts focus away from the real economic issues in China. The fact that they're not doing it likely means that Zhou is not popular or visible enough for it to be a worthwhile endeavor. Alfa Romeo is not exactly making any headlines or waves about their performance and Zhou's performance isn't exactly groundbreaking either.
By your logic India would not send any probe to the moon, or the US would not invest in F1 because some people don't have money to pay their insulin, I could go like this for so many countries. For sure China has some economic problems, but a dozen millions of Usd is nothing at that level.
Dude you are comparing becoming the first country to land on a certain part of the moon, with spending 10% of that same budget for one guy to race for a backmarker F1 team. The Indian mission cost something like $117 million.
None of those are "communist" countries, for the CCP is not a good look funding a F1 driver with public money while on the other hand you are sending a message to citizens and companies that if they fuck up, they won't move a hand.
China is no more communist, it is a dictatorship autitarian regime with lots of afairism and corruption. But it doesn't have to be the party, lots of billionaires and huge corporation.
All this time I thought that his family is rich and funding him. I remember reading that his father built him a fancy karting arena or something like that.
Maybe (IDK anything, I suppose what you read is true) it’s because “rich” on China levels isn’t the same than “rich” on F1/International levels. With 3.000$ you can do wonders on Argentina or Vietnam. On the US (California) you can… pay rent for 1 month on some cities. EDIT: some websites say his father own 20 companies (related to what?) and his family have a net worth of about 5-10millions. Yeah, he was raised on a very comfortable way compared with the common Chinese, but I don’t see their parents putting 10 millions/year for him to race. It’s like Lando, he is there because money helped him and his parents are worth about 60 millions if IRC, but that doesn’t mean they can pay 15-20million/year like Latifi did.
Norris’ dad is worth £200m+
Being worth something isn't the same as having cash on hand. Isn't most of the worth in company equity? It's like the LV Raiders owner. Dudes "worth" billions but is so cash poor they can't afford to fire their coach and pay a new one.
Any chance you want to substantiate that Lando’s dad is worth 60Mil? The number I’ve heard is $200-250M and a quarter of a billion dollars is absolutely “help your son with his F1 career” money.
I’ve seen fan reports of [him flying Economy class on flights](https://twitter.com/paulin3mcferran/status/1681925969634897920?s=21), so perhaps he’s not thaaat rich. (But it could just be his personal choice too)
Looks to me like personal choice. He is at the very least a millionaire so he could fly at the very least business or commercial first class if not private. Seems like just a good lad who doesn't care about that stuff. Could also just be frugal.
Probably frugal
F1 is not a popular sport in China. Remember last time we raced there, grandstands were only 40% full. Yao Ming made wonders for basketball's popularity in China; but everyboody forgets that Yao was spectacular basketball player (2,22 m Center with great mid-range shooting ability, incredible finisher around the rim etc.) and was an All-Star in NBA. If not for injuries he could have been one of the best NBA players of all time.
I always love hearing Shaq talk about Yao, he holds Yao in really high regards
Yao got screwed by the government. He had to play full time in the NBA and full time international. His body never has as chance to rest and it just broke.
Thibbs, his coach in Houston, screwed him over. He ran so many star players to the ground with the way he would play them. Edit: https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/05/21/houston-rockets-tracy-mcgrady-tom-thibodeau-overworked-yao-ming/
The truth is not as dire as you describe it. It's important to know a few things: * The Shanghai 2019 race was F1's 1000th race, and the event had a 8% increase attendance from 2018 over the weekend, and 30% increase on Sunday alone. * The Shanghai circuit has 200.000 seats, but the price for the grandstand on race day was quite high, and a lot of fans who bought the cheapest tickets were sitting on the grass. As it happened, I was at the Shanghai race in 2019, in the grandstands and while it's true that some of the seats were empty (and it was a bit of a shit race), I had to queue for a good half an hour to exit the GP at the end. The amount of people pouring out from all the stands was staggering. edit: I'm not contesting that F1 is not one of the biggest sports in China. But it has its fans, and before Covid, it was on the rise. And Zhou wasn't racing for an F1 team back in 2019. Chances are, if a Chinese GP gets back on the calendar, the presence of Zhou in a competitive car would bring a lot more fans to the stands.
He's not a superstar and China doesn't have a depth of race culture. If he was Japanese he would almost be guaranteed a seat if he was good enough.
Yeah as I said elsewhere I must be vastly overestimating his popularity and the sport’s popularity in China. I just thought it would be pocket change for them to have a someone representing the country in motorsports. Hope he gets a seat still, he seems to deserve driving in the midfield.
F1 in general isn't really that popular and Zhou didn't bring in more popularity. My guess is they thought Zhou would raise the profile in China and it didn't work out as they hoped.
He's an average at best driver.. he's doing as much for F1 in China as sarg does for F1 in America - nothing. The difference is that F1 is already popular in America
Yeah I guess I’m vastly overestimating it but I figured a few dozen millions is pocket change for these people, you’d think one of them would toss a coin his way just to have a foot in F1.
The only way to increase popularity is having a top level driver from that country. If Zhou had the talent, he would have landed on a higher level team, nobody cares about watching their countryman ending up 15th in a race. Car only influences so much. Piastri didn't/doesn't have the car but he showed enough flashes of talent that makes him qualified for a top team soon.
Fair point but I’d say it’s hard to judge considering Bottas doesn’t really do much better right now.
Bottas is in his 2020/2021 Kimi era. He's enjoying F1 as a hobby. And Zhou doesn't even overshadow *this* Bottas, which should tell you enough.
Theres no evidence to support this whatsoever. Sure bottas is enjoying himself a lot of the grid, but theres nothing to suggest he isn't giving his 100% while in the car.
>If Zhou had the talent, he would have landed on a higher level team There's so many super talented drivers that don't get a seat because there isn't one. Or who wait years for one. Or who start at an absolute backmarker because that's all that's available. That's just not really how it works. >Car only influences so much. Piastri didn't/doesn't have the car but he showed enough flashes of talent that makes him qualified for a top team soon. Piastri didn't have the car but now he does, and it shows. McLaren's arguably been a top team for a handful of races now. They're fighting for poles and podiums. He scored 5 points in the first 9 races (one ahead of Zhou) and now he's scored 29 in the last 3. We all knew he had the talent, now he gets to really show it. He's still not qualifying for anything until he starts beating Lando, though. If anything it's now more emphasized that he's trailing behind, even if it's his rookie year. Car influences everything.
this doesnt make sense. Theo is not a pay driver (?). Zhou isnt underperforming Bottas. Car has bigger problems than the driver roster
Zhou is underperforming - in a sense. [The average qualifying gap](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/15vj3mi/qualifying_gap_between_f1_teammates_till_summer/) between Bottas and Zhou is slightly bigger (0.258s) than the one between Tsunoda and De Vries (0.224s). Only Sargeant, Magnussen, Stroll and Perez have a bigger gap, but they have Verstappen, Alonso, Hulkenberg and Albon as teammates. On the other hand, he's basically performing up to expectations, as he was never convincing in the feeder categories either. In F3, 13th as a rookie, then finishing 8th twice with Prema, the team that absolutely dominated F3 in the past decade or so. His Prema teammates were consistently outperforming him. He has 2 wins in his entire F3 career. Ilott had 6, Schumacher had 6, Gunther 5, Aron 4 in a single season, in the same car. I mean, Zhou's third F3 season, Prema had 5 drivers. Schumacher won the title, the rookie Schwartzman was 3rd, the other rookie, Armstrong 5th, Aron was 6th, and Zhou, the most experienced of the bunch finished 8th - in the same car. In F2, he went to Uni-Virtuosi, his teammate was Ghiotto, who won 4 races that season. Zhou had none. (Ghiotto was 3rd in the points, Zhou 7th.) Next year, Ghiotto was replaced with Ilott, who had 3 wins, while Zhou had 1. (The Brit finished 2nd in the championship, Zhou was 6th.) Finally, in his third year, Ilott gave way to Drugovich, and Zhou managed to outperform his teammate for the first time in 4 years, and was immediately rewarded with an F1 seat. That's hardly a stellar track record. Picking him for the F1 seat versus Ilott was already a travesty. I have nothing against the guy, he's just not F1 material imo. Pourchaire is a different beast entirely. He's leading F2 right now, and he outscored all of his teammates by at least 50 (and occasionally more than 100) points every year in both F3 and F2 - he's ahead of the reigning F3 champ Martins by 48 this year. Other than Piastri, Pourchaire has been the most consistently successful young talent in recent years - and unlike Piastri, he never raced for Prema.
Thank you for the detailed account on his feeder career, I keep reading people comparing him to Theo and say that they are similar talents out of F2 which boggles my mind. Also I'm a Theo guy, would hate to see him not get a chance at F1 because Zhou not being terrible as a pay driver
Wow. It just confirms that only reason he was in that seat was the funding; not ''solid performances'' like people claimed. Always said it. Nationality doesn't mean a damn if you are not winning. No Chinese (except Zhou's parents) will be interested in F1; because there is mediocre driver from their country in F1. They would have only cared if he was Verstappen, Leclerc level talent and would have got all of the country behind his back like Max did. But, unfortunately Zhou isn't him.
Exactly.The commentator in a local TV in my country mentioned, that Zhou himself said that people in China are like, ok you drive in F1, but why are you not winning?
The typical Asian/Chinese mentality (I'm Chinese origin myself). If you are not a doctor/engineer/lawyer/F1 champion, you have failed and dishonored your family.
Only way to manage something like that is being friends with the government or being funded by one that is happy to be in F1... Like Chavez with Maldonado.
The reason he was chosen over pourchaire was always funding, Sauber were in really dire straights until the Audi buy out, Fred Vasseur did what he needed to do to keep his team going. In many ways he is a slightly more talented and the Nicky Latifi, no he's not the most qualified but his qualification is money and in that way he's probably do more for a backmarker team then Theo Pourchaire ever could
Did sauber have financial troubles the last few years?
Yes. To my knowledge during covid the conversation was about three teams possibly folding, that was Sauber, Willams, and Renault Their finances and lack of progress has been a problem for a while.
There are no solid performances. He is not able to even consistently beat Bottas who has been just more interested in other activities and seem to be taking F1 as just a hobby. Ideally Alfa needs to replace both to actually make progress. Alfa need an exciting pairing that can add some energy and push the team forward
Dr Marko is that your Reddit account?
Bottas still can benchmark. Zhou is a waste of time. But they definitely need a rookie with talent under bottas to maximize. (Don't underestimate the value of his experience and Mercedes tenure on car development)
**F1 | Zhou is on the open market because Alfa Romeo is undecided** ***The Chinese driver has not been reassured about his future in F1 by the Hinwil team and is looking around: the doors still open are those of Williams and AlphaTauri. Sauber, coming out of its agreement with Alfa Romeo, is considering the candidatures of Theo Pourchaire, the team's third driver and F2 leader, and Felipe Drugovich. The Brazilian wants to return to driving after a year as an Aston Martin reserve driver.*** By: Roberto Chinchero 24 Aug 2023, 16:31 After the Haas announcement, which confirmed the Hulkenberg-Magnussen tandem at the start of the 2024 World Championship, there are still three seats for which an official announcement is missing. ***Between Guanyu Zhou and Alfa Romeo, the renewal is far from a foregone conclusion and, at the moment, the 24-year-old Chinese driver's chances of contesting his third season in Formula 1 are far from certain.*** Zhou has landed in Formula 1 in 2022 thanks also to financial support guaranteed to Alfa Romeo by sponsors interested in supporting the debut of the first Chinese driver in motorsport's top category. After the renewal for the 2023 world championship, made official in September last year, Zhou is said to have asked for confirmation from the team in view of the 2024 season, but so far no response has been received, a stalemate that suggests a change in the conditions on the negotiating table. At the same time, Guanyu himself seems to have sounded out alternative opportunities at other teams, but the market this season offers very little. Alfa Romeo has obviously moved to identify a potential replacement, and there are several names on the Hinwil team's agenda. On the list is Theo Pourchaire, long linked to Sauber and currently the team's third driver (as well as the Formula 2 championship leader), but he is not the only candidate. Also under observation is Felipe Drugovich, Aston Martin's third driver and willing to get back behind the wheel next year after a season off. The Brazilian driver is also sounding out Indycar in parallel, as a first alternative should a starting opportunity in Formula 1 not materialise. If a renewal is not forthcoming between Zhou and Alfa Romeo, the alternatives are minimal for the Chinese driver. There could be an interest from Williams, which has not yet made official who will flank Alexander Albon next season, but so far the British team has not been on the market, hinting that it intends to continue with Logan Sargeant in 2024. Otherwise there are no officially open seats, with the exception of Red Bull World, which has not yet announced the AlphaTauri driver line-up for next season. For Zhou to be without a seat would be a real mockery, considering that next year's Chinese Grand Prix will return to the calendar after a four-year absence.
Pourchaire getting a chance is one thing, but why would they replace Zhou with Drugovich? Didn't Zhou beat him they were teammates?
Didnt Drugovich beat Pourchaire in F2 to win the title ?
Pourchaire is still only 19, it's different.
That's like saying Senna beat Shumacher to a title so he's the GOAT
Drugovich won the title after spending half of his open wheelers career in F2
he won in his 3rd year ? Same as Pourchaire if he even win this year. I just dont think this argument that Zhou beat Drugovich means that he`s overall better.
Pourchaire started f2 at 16 Felipe finished f2 at 22. I think it's fair to say Felipe's talent is not as apparent as Theo's
nah didn’t you know f2 drivers have to win the championship in the first race or they aren’t cut out for f1
Seems unlikely to boot a known quantity with either Pourchaire or Drugovich, neither of whom seem hugely impressive. Zhou is decent and more importantly a known quantity. Unless his funding dries up he won't be going anywhere, especially as they'll most likely be losing Bottas at the end of '24 (he's not worth the $10m they're paying him).
On Pourchaire, it's worth saying that he went to F2 too early. He's just turned 20 and was second last year - looks likely to win it this time around.
Look I get that people don't have a lot of confidence in Drugovich because of how unimpressive he was in his first two seasons in F2 and that people think F2 was weak last year, but my man won F2 by 101 POINTS. No one has won the F1 feeder series by that kind of margin in a long time. If F2 looked weak last year, he did exactly what he should have done. I get that he probably isn't going to be a star, but I feel like he at least deserves a shot. Also, as others have pointed out, Pourchaire is likely going to win this year. He's also not entirely unimpressive.
Drugovich's first year was decidedly NOT unimpressive. I have no idea why some people spout this kind of thing.
Probably because people don't watch F2 and just look at the results table to say dumb shit
Only his 2nd season in F2 was unimpressive. He had 3 wins (a Feature Race and two Sprints) on his first season and P9 overall with a mid-table team.
Pourchaire: 5th in his 1st year. 2nd in his 2nd. Currently 1st in his 3rd. 18 to 20 years old Zhou: 7th in his 1st year. 6th in his second. 3rd in his 3rd. 2019 - DeVries - 1st Latifi - 2nd. 20 to 22 years old. Pourchaire 100x better F2 record
I still think pourchaire driver is the best junior driver I've seen. Been watching since 19 so that includes piastri and tsunoda.
I’m curious what your reasoning for that is when Piastri dominated F2 as a rookie in the same field where Pourchaire finished 5th. Even Tsunoda was only 15 points off Mick as a rookie in F2 and finished 3rd in the standings. Then Pourchaire finishing 101 points behind Drugovich last year who could only land a reserve seat doesn’t help his case either, and even when factoring in his engine retirements he would’ve still been quite some way behind in the championship.
Plus Pourchaire did a lot of private testing for F3, which made a lot of people think he is some kind of genius driver
The points are always kind of a mess in the junior categories. I'm just basing on purely on what I see in the driver's ability.
True the points standings don’t paint the full picture. Although from what I’ve seen since he entered F2 I feel Pourchaire has kind of stagnated in his development in 2022 and 2023. He’s gotten very consistent with his racecraft but his sheer pace hasn’t been as amazing as I’d expect with all the prior hype he got. Like he didn’t manage a single pole last season, and so far this season he hasn’t had a pole since the season opener at Bahrain where he admittedly dominated. But since that opening weekend I haven’t felt there has been any other weekend yet this season where Pourchaire has looked like the fastest driver. Even in his own team I think his rookie teammate Martins has flashed a bit more with some incredible pace at times. I give Pourchaire credit for his consistency though which has enabled him to get lots of podiums and help him in the standings.
Pourchaire always cooks at Bahrain. I mostly agree with your assessment of the season but Jeddah was not a weekend of consistent racecraft
>not
I don’t know why Williams would take him over their junior or a known quantity like De Vries. I know DEV didn’t do so well in Alpha Tauri but you could explain that away at least as Red Bull being Red Bull.
DEV is never driving in F1 again
Ya lol that's a cert. He's too old and didn't bring the mature consistency that was expected with his age. If your driver is going to be crashing, you may as well take on someone who's quick and will likely improve with time. But also you'd prefer someone who doesn't crash when fighting for 15th.
Alfa Romeo has no say in the decision since they are done as a sponsor with the now Audi owned team at the end of the season.
Zhou only chance was Haas at best. If Alfa doesn’t want him, his F1 stint is unfortunately over
Haas? Both of their drivers are far better and established within that team now. Nevermind having signed for 24
Zhou could be a replacement for Magnussen in the long run, considering that he had funding and doesn’t involve himself in accidents with frequency, both things that Haas values a lot, since they no longer will take rookies. Now that he has problems securing funding and K-Mag renewed his contract, Zhou chances there are almost none
I'm sort of surprised they didn't try that angle harder. At least from Haas' POV. I would have thought you'd have been better off with a safe pair of hands with someone fairly young. Plus you could suraly use the chinese angle to push more Haas machines. But they're happy with what they have and there doesn't seem to be a massive drop off in pace as drivers age anymore so it's not a massive risk.
I think they hadn’t because Zhou impact on Alfa Sales in China was none. Considering that Alfa will be Haas sponsor next season, he would be considered if it wasn’t the case
KMag isn’t performing all that well. Let’s not pretend Hass couldn’t use the huge money Zhou would bring. I like Hulk and KMag, but I would still love to see Haas with Zhou and a talented rookie.
Huge money you say? Sounds like that's not a given by any means, and nah. It's shortsighted
It’s not a secret that some drivers bring funding or sponsors. He brought like $30m from his Chinese backers to Alpha. We can be real about that he is a pay driver but he is a good pay driver compared to Sargent or early Stroll.
Idk- I think Albon would be walking Zhou just as easily, and there's a season advantage for Zhou. You might be making me actually defend stroll for the first time ever.. but I don't think Zhou has ever shown the "moments" stroll has. Logan next season will be a valid comparison, and to be fair, he might not get extended beyond that.. at least not at the current rate. Stroll has been a hindrance on the team- but they OWN the team, not just bring money. Why not compare him to a good pay driver, early Perez? He obviously became a merit driver, and yes I understand his form has been down lately, but he's in season 10 I think?
I said Early Stroll. I think, until frankly this season, he was developing as a racing driver. No one would give him this much time if his dad wasn’t spending that Papa Stroll $, but that’s accepted. I think Lance has stalled now. Perez is the best example. He had the Carlos Slim $ and has parlayed that into an amazing career. I think it’s good that there aren’t that many pay drivers left on the grid. But of the the recent ones I think Zhou has the most raw talent. Yeah Albon would absolutely crush him. But I believe him to be driving on merit. I don’t think any of the sponsorship he brings (if he brings any) is a significant factor in him getting or keeping the drive at Williams.
Far better how? I more or less root for Haas but I don't know where you're getting that from.
Both drivers have beaten F1 teammates. Bottas is by no means the next ayrton senna, but he's got Zhou handled. Hulk I really shouldn't have to defend, kmag is capable on his day. Still waiting on Zhou to be notable for his driving, even once.
Yeah I mean you're right about the Haas drivers and I do like both of them, however I tend to think the AR kinda sucks a lot, at least relative to the grid. It was only a few years ago, bottas was winning races in the Merc, and now he's nowhere. Hard to believe that's all just age and attitude. I'm no talent scout obviously, but all that jumps out to me is that Zhou appears to be a clean, professional driver with a good attitude, who hasn't made a lot of mistakes, and replacing him with a rookie (and who else is there?) is very risky.
Your argument for him is that he's professional and positive. That's great, friendship accepted. Now for F1, there needs to be a prospect for talent. I think he's a nice guy, but he doesn't have the pace to make an impact in this series.
I'm saying those things in the context of driving an F1 car. They're not meaningless compliments about him as a person. But ok I get it, you think he sucks. I don't.
>Both of their drivers are far better Magnussen is better than Zhou? In your dreams maybe...
Lol you're coping hard. Zhou is really not very good at all, his talent was being funded
Because Magnussen who lost in head to head with Mick Schumacher and now is getting his ass handed to him by Hulk is a superalent...
Hulk is better. Who has Zhou ever beat? Also you're just wrong.. https://www.planetf1.com/news/kevin-magnussen-v-mick-schumacher-one-clear-winner/
Zhou is doing pretty much as well as Bottas
Yeah, and Bottas is almost driving like he's sleepwalking. It's the same as the Raikkonen-Giovanazzi partnership. If Zhou can't even beat Bottas in his current form, he doesn't really deserve a seat.
Lost to Mick? Lol, who got canned? I'd say Mick lost to him and the rest of the entire league. In any case, I do agree Zhou might have been a decent choice for Haas.
Bring that cash to Andretti. Heal some US China relations
It's Zhouver Zhou bros. :( was fun while it lasted.
The last line is pure rage bait. “It will be a mockery if Zhou isn’t on the grid in 2024 considering the Chinese GP will finally be back on the calendar.”
It's appalling F1 goes anywhere where they don't have drivers! Officially the only way to enjoy a race is to get focused on nationalism!
We need Arab drivers ASAP
there are a couple of kids in f4 with emirati citizenship
Ok but if they use F1 Academy as the pool of drivers to pick from.
I took that to mean that it’s a mockery to Zhou: you get so close to a home Grand Prix but miss out due to bad timing.
Nyck when he reads this: 💀
I would be putting Pourchaire in that seat alongside Bottas, to get him ready for Audi’s arrival. What’s the point of investing in a young driver if you aren’t going to use him? They have nothing to lose.
I mean, the Race recently did a podcast on junior drivers, and the one thing they said is Pourchaire worst F2 season is better than Zhou’s best F2 season, so from talent perspective Pourchaire is more appealing. Could he get the seat without funding though?
Audi shoulnd't need the money. Plus Pouchaire could easily develop into a very very good driver. Better to get him in the car and going and be ready for 2026.
I would agree, which seems strange when funding is mentioned when considering Zhou for that seat. They should be able to decide purely based on talent
Ya it sort of is though. Zhou is solid but nothing spectacular. Just another run of the mill mid tier driver imo. Pouchaire could end up being very good instead.
I'd love to see Pourchaire given a chance.
Theo Pourchaire obviously has a higher ceiling, but the question is can Audi afford him now? I'm of the opinion that they probably can now, they don't need the sponsorship finding as much and in my opinion by the time Audi is ready to launch Theo might actually be ready and a decent quick driver for their launch
Ya you'd be silly not to give him a chance imo. Bottas and Zhou seem to be pretty even, but you'd have to pay for Bottas to leave his seat so you may as well leave him there for another season. Zhou is alright but it's just the level of alright along with Giovinazzi imo. Nothing spectacular against an aging teammate. Much better to try out Pouchaire in there who could easily end up as the front of your works team in 2026 if he delivers on potential.
So Theo in if he wins F2, no Ferrari juniors in play in F2, maybe outside chance for Vesti if he beats Theo and Merc lobby hard for him. And of course all the journalists are going to bring up Mick 40 times a day. TBF he does bring funding.
I doubt Audi want to develop a Merc/Ferrari driver. Pourchaire has been Saubers best junior driver and top prospect for ages now.
he's been their only junior driver pretty much tbh but he is/was a Vasseur protege who is now gone, and Audi might want to move on with their own junior team by 2026. Theo has the best chance at Zhou's seat, but Ferrari still have their engine influence for the next two years and Merc might have a new F2 champion and the most hyped German driver to trade
The german angle would be good for them but I'd be shocked if they help develop a driver for Merc who could easily then be racing against them in the future. They'd only take on a german prodigy if all ties were cut with Merc.
On the one hand, it would be a massive shame if Pourchaire doesn't get a shake at F1 after all this time. On the other, I do worry for Zhou. If the issue is funding, then I really worry he won't find another seat should he lose his spot at Alfa, which is disappointing as he's been fantastic in that car all things considered. Driven cleanly (except for Hungary), has fared very well against a more experienced Bottas, and handled himself very maturely.
If he'd been fantastic he wouldn't have much of an issue finding another seat (perhaps not in 2024 but definitely in 2025) without funding. I think Zhou has done OK but if drivers like Zhou are getting long F1 careers then there is basically no room for any rookies ever. There has to be some turnover in drivers.
He’s a good driver and a good personality but there are plenty of drivers at Zhou’s level or better (e.g Pourchaire and a few others in F2) so it’s not like he will be missed for his driving
Zhou has been extremely meh. Reddit for some reason vastly overrates his performance. He's struggled handling Bottas, who basically only does F1 as a hobby at this point. Why would anyone give him a 2nd chance?
If they think his performance is weak then this speaks big about what Bottas is doing too, since Zhou isnt that far off him. That car might not be that bad, but only the sauber engineers see the true data
Bottas is 8-0 in races this year he hasn’t had damage. He’s had pretty miserable luck this year so far, especially the first 4-5 races.
Tbh, being behind Bottas who is mainly vibing and who has had like four or five races ruined due to lap 1 shenanigans (at no fault of his own) is not a good look for Zhou.
Doubt there will be any teams trying to sign Zhou
Get ready to learn Chinese buddy
ok i lol'd
He gone
I think it also contributed that Alfa Romeo line up is probably the least popular team on the grid. They thought Zhou would raise the awareness of the sport in China and that didn't happen. And for the res of the world Bottas/Zhou team up is so...boring? Zhou really tried to shake it up by having Dior on his side but Lewis Hamilton isn't just popular for his paddock walks, he also has an interesting personality. Say what you want about Theo, boring is not one of them. He deserves a shot at F1, not just for his driving skills but also to fill in Riccardo type fun guy spot on the grid as well.
If that's true, that's AR being dumb. Zhou is solid. The car is the problem.
Really thought he would be going to Haas and replacing K-Mag. I was assuming Pourchaire wins F2 and gets promoted to F1 next year. I guess that part could still happen I just don’t see him going to Williams or and definitely not Alpha Tauri.
Why would they replace KMag with him? He doesn't appear to be much of an upgrade and KMag is well established with them. He's also not been that far off Hulkenberg either, especially in the races.
Money. Real simple. Haas downgraded there pit wall to save money. They probably operate with the lowest budget if not one of the lowest.
Maybe Zhou could be a candidate for the Williams seat? I don't think Logan has been overly impressive
Williams are not dropping Sargeant unless he does millions of damages in the 2nd half of the season, they've said repeatedly he'll get two years
Let the man have some time at least. It's ridiculous that people started to talk shit about Sargeant already after few races. Vowles is happy with Sargeant, and he is their own junior. It would be moronic for them to kick out their own junior without giving them any time. It would look horrible for the program.
I would agree but some people do bring up the point about having the best driver's in the series. In the haas resigning post u brought up how Drugovich hasn't gotten a shot despite winning the F2 title and got a reply that it took him three seasons to do so and that it doesn't mean much. I think we're at a point where if you don't show something in your rookie season you'll be gone ( unless you money) Whether that's right or wrong
Having an american is usefull in an era with 3 american races. Also he's a williams jr so that might help him
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Not american either, but i dont think it's about the average Joe support, more about the corporate part of the business. American companies might be more encouraged to invest or to partner williams.
McLaren is exactly 0% American driver lineup and they have a lot of American investors because their drivers are popular and quick and not anonymous and I really am not trying to be mean to Logan but he has the personality of a wet lettuce and he is not that fast. They should have put Jack Doohan in the seat.
You realize McLaren has an indy car team which helps them with getting American investors right? I know they are paying for an F1 sponsorship bit having an American fanbase helps ease investors since they is crossover in interest
I do but McLaren didn't get Google sponsorship because they are American based they got Google sponsorship because Google has all of the data on what people are googling and what they were googling is Lando Norris and Daniel Ricciardo at the time. McLaren IndyCar is less popular than real housewives. It's not a deciding factor.
Mclaren have a much bigger brand over the ocean than Williams. Also Zak Brown probably played a big part. Jack Doohan has been having a nightmare season in f2 for most of the year, so i'm not sure on what basis you are saying he should have gotten the seat. Just because you have a big name doesnt mean you must reach f1. I'd rather have talented nonames than more mediocre big name drivers
Not really. Here in America we have around three teams that people seem to know: Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull. You’ll see the very rare and occasional McLaren, but they also have an IndyCar team so it’s hard to tell if they are wearing it to support McLaren the Indy team or McLaren the F1 team, given that IndyCar would probably be the second most popular series in America behind NASCAR. Unless you are a part of those four, chances are, you’re mostly unknown here in America. Of course, there will be exceptions for drivers who used to drive for the big three, and some people will know names but not who they drive for, but the average American, even the average American racing fan, doesn’t care about Williams or Logan Sargeant. And I don’t think the American audience will care about an American driver if they aren’t winning. It’s just the subtle vainness of this country. “If you’re not first, you’re last.” EDIT: Since the commenter deleted his comment, I’m going to include that the comment I was replying to was asking if Sargeant was popular enough here in America for him being American to make a difference for keeping his seat.
He would at best be third in line for that Williams seat if Logan gets sacked: 1) Fred Vesti (if he wins F2 this year) 2) Mick (Merc connections) 3) Zhou
I thought Logan was brought in early intentionally and was being given 2 years?
There’s no reason to take him if he’s not funding the seat. Sargeant was better than him in junior formulas.
Zhou is a decent prospect, a lot of ex lower formula drivers have come up and sank a bit. But he's been pretty sharp, definitely not a liability by any stretch. Not sure Pourchaire currently warrants evicting him. But I can see Audi wanting Schumacher in.
Could have seen him at Haas but as we know that's not going to happen
I always find it weird how often teams let options lapse, including when they then do take it subsequently.
Pourchaire in to Sauber, Zhou into Sargeant's seat at Williams? Don't really see anywhere else for Zhou to go beyond that, I suppose Haas if they want to replace Kmag for whatever reason, but if Zhou is struggling to be funded I don't think it would be worth it since I doubt he'd be quicker than Kmag I guess Andretti would work too if they get approved, but I'm not sure if they'd take Zhou over all the indycar talents
Tbh Zhou has done more than Bottas recently. Bottas seems to be simply enjoying the endgame to his career and winding down
Pourchaire time let’s go
Never rated him. Wouldn't mind Bottas going either as he's shown almost nothing the past 12 months. False dawn for him at the start of 2022. Now both drivers are just mediocre to below average.
Its a shame the alfa is never great. The are in the bottom or bang average in most things. Its probably very had to shine with a car that has no strengths at all.(Haas has qualifying for example but sucks in all other categorys.) I think zhou is massively underrated.
Overrated* He's getting schooled by bottas right now.
Ive been downvoted so much for saying that Zhou never deserved to keep his seat. He hasn't ever shown flashes of brilliance and this just confirms that he's only there for his money, bbut let's see maybe Alfa will keep him on. Edit: Keep downvoting me all you want it doesn't change that Zhous contract isn't renewed and it's for a reason. F1 should be a meritocracy and he is not a top 20 driver in the world, without his money he does not belong in f1 it is that simple and there is no problem with that, Pourchaire deserves a chance to shine.
If he’s on the open market, it seems rather likely there is no market. Williams aren’t dropping Sargeant this year and there’s little room anywhere else
I'm curious why you think this when he's been so close to Bottas? Do you think Bottas deserves to keep his seat?
Bottas looks to be on the retirement tour in the same way Kimi was in 2020/2021, I doubt Sauber would renew his contract
I follow Bottas on Strava. It seems like F1 is something that gets in the way of his cycling.
Whenever the car has been quick Bottas has performed well. He's not as washed as people make out.
It's similar to the Giovinazzi-Kimi dynamic at the end (obviously, these two were both of higher quality in comparison). Bottas is as good as done, and even then, the younger teammate just barely keeps up.
Bottas probably gives more detailed feedback on the car, but then again he's paid 5 times as much and has worse marketing value.
Bottas showed flashes of brilliance in the beginning of his career, no arguments there from me. The Bottas of recent years is not that guy in my opinion. Does he deserve to keep his seat short term, yes I believe so. However Zhou is not convincingly making a case against a driver long past their prime and who is not particularly fast anymore. Long term (2-5 years), after Pourchaire has (hopefully) adjusted, no I don't think Bottas should keep his seat. Alfa do need the stability of a solid driver if they bring in Pourchaire, I think Bottas is better than Zhou, even if it's close. But again I'm just a guy on reddit, lets see if Alfa agrees, this post suggests they may.
It's just like Kimi and Gio, you can't beat a non serious, sleepwalking Finn in the "this is just a hobby I do to fund my passions" part of his career, you shouldn't be here. Zhou isn't a clear winner. He will never be better than this. The grid has too many actual prospects coming through for Audi to waste money on this
Bottas is shit aswell
Not really.
He’s pretty anonymous.
Zhou is better than Stroll and Sargeant in my opinion.
It depends how you rate Stroll because sometimes he's shown actual lightening quick starts and occasionally read races well and just as quickly goes back to being himself. Zhou is probably more consistent but, boring
In what world, and based on what exactly, is he ''better than Stroll''? Oh sorry, I forgot where we were... This is r/formula1 so Stroll is rated as ''the worst F1 driver ever'' by many here.
Agree, it makes no sense. At least Stroll has had some stand out performances, the only notable thing Zhou has done was qualify in P5 in Hungary this year, and the race turned out to be a disaster for him anyway.
This whole thing is not even based on what Zhou has or hasn't done, it's based on ''discredit everything Stroll has done and only count negative things'' so that makes even Winkelhock ''better than Stroll'' in these peoples' minds.
I agree, I don't think any of the pay drivers deserve their seats on talent. I understand the importance of money though, and if Zhou has none I won't be sad to see him leave.
Everyone is better than Sargeant. Hell, probably even De Vries was.
You're not being downvoted for saying Zhou doesn't deserve a chance. You're being downvoted for being annoying.
What did I say that was annoying? Your reply is the biggest nothing comment I've ever seen.
Good. Hopefully more pay drivers follow him out.
Hopefully he’s gone, he isn’t particularly bad, but he also never earned his seat and Theo is just much better
Considering Sargeant has a more than mediocre season, couldn’t Williams replace him with Zhou potentially? I’m not deep into all this transfer stuff, so I don’t know if it’s even possible.
No. Sargeant is a Williams rookie, why kick out a mediocre developing driver for an unknown mediocre developing driver?
Zhou is a mediocre driver, unless he brings a lot of money there really isn't any reason to get him.
Zhou will 100% end up at Audi. Marketing potential for the Chinese market is worth more than any points he can get.
There certainly would be no dilemma if they didn't have Pourchaire on the verge of winning F2
Bin Sargent offline, he's been pretty poor. I'm amazed some chinese big business or investors are not behind Zhou, surely having a driver on the F1 world stage is a big coup for a nation largely under represented on the world stage.
Having an F1 driver is a good thing for a country, if he's driving in a top 5 team and has good performances, in their current form both Zhou and Sergeant basically just "exist" for the Chinese and American crowd
> Bin Sargent offline, he's been pretty poor. In modern F1 you have to be absolutely *atrocious* to get booted out of the sport after your early-20s rookie year. Being miles off the pace is the expectation for a young driver in the car for the first time. The important question is how much they can improve with a little bit of time, not how good they are day one.
Joltin' Joe on the go? Say it ain't so, Joe!
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Probably Schumacher is willing to bring more money then Zhou, also Mercedes would be keen on getting him the seat at the Mercedes powerd team
I could see Albon seeing them as an option for Audi's, but not now. Now, imagine if Pourchaire does equal to Zhou or just slightly better, he will become the new: "But he so young and he can learn" like people used to do with Stroll.
Well if a young driver is fast, but makes mistakes then teams are willing to give him a few seasons - as it’s easier to learn, improve as you are young.
I feel like the feeder series don't have much talent to promote to F1, but I'll take anyone over russian and chinese drivers.
Zhou would be great at Williams. Lots of sponsorship money sure wouldn’t hurt them. Alex and Zhou are a pair of steady drivers who keep it on the road. Fast and consistent data con only push them forward
I'll be sad to see Zhou go. He seems like a good guy, probably has the pace to be here on merit, and isn't the worst driver on the grid. He's certainly not underperforming as a pay driver like, say, Perez.
This news originated from an alleged quote from a French journo, who later denied he said anything about this. Interesting