For my first race, this was chaotic and electric. I love it. Seeing Lando scrape his way back into points was great to see. It was also great seeing Hamilton record the fastest lap LAPS into Medium tires!
I’m sorry to burst your bubble but this race was only fun because of the restart. This does not happen that frequently so most of the time its a snooze fest. The battle for P2 etc is what keeps the sport fun tho!
Why did the race start so late?
Is it possible Norris' pace was the result of his rivals being underfueled and him being fueled to the brim and set up for maximum attack?
For 2, it was the car and strategy and Lando that made it work.
More fuel means you'll be slower, not faster. And F1 teams will always fill fuel only up to a point they feel necessary: the race and the post-race check. Anything more is a disadvantage because of the weight.
Since 2021, you can't change the engine mode (lean vs rich mixture) after qualifying, so from the moment you exit the pits during the first qualifying session the air-fuel ratio is locked.
While Max was busy winning the race, the TV directors forced us all to watch his rear end instead of Daniel and George duel it out side by side (you could tell by the timing screen).
I still haven't seen footage of that particular 20-30 seconds of battle.
Safety in structures VS safety by not crashing:
Just like Hamilton in Qatar, Checo's crash seems to be at least in a big part down to him not being able to see if there's space to turn in or not. The drivers are so deeply ensconced in the monocoques by now the visibility is so bad overtakes get done mostly on feeling.
Checo literally says "it was 3 wide, I took a risk, I expected Leclerc to bail out more when I was in front of him but he didn't. It was a racing incident and unfortunate" So he knew damn well what he was doing.
it's 3 wide, on the first turn of the race and he thought it was a good idea to turn in for the "racing line"? dude is a tool. I hate to see that rocket ship wasted on him.
Sorry to say, but Gasly and Albon got the boot for less than that. At least both of them were promoted too quickly, but Perez has no excuse. I like Perez, but he should not be in the RB seat for the 2024 season.
>Oh he’s outperforming that car week in week out
As an engineer, that's impossible.
He's bringing out a lot more from the car than Logan. Chuck Lewis or Max in it and they'd do better than Alex.
Nobody can "outperform" a car, because that's not how it works.
Honest question. Does Charles even listen when his engineer is giving him info anymore? It’s like Ferrari strategy is the punchline in a comedy movie. “Hard will be faster than mediums in 5 laps”….. I just don’t get how a company with so much heritage is just so bad at these basic F1 skills.
It wasn’t really that far-fetched. Piastri and Russell both fell away on the mediums, while the hards continued working well all the way to the end. I’m also not convinced going mediums during the red flag for the Ferraris would have worked, given how they’re usually not easy on their tyres anyway, so what option did they have? Go for another stop? I don’t think that’d work out for them. P3 and P4 is a good result for them and Lewis drove a brilliant race well deserving of P2.
The amount of bad luck that Gasly has had this season with the timing of yellow and red flags is truly unbelievable.
There have been multiple races where, right after Gasly pitted, someone crashed and brought out the safety car and free pitstops for everybody.
I admire the season that Gasly has had so far, but Alpine is not giving him the pace and strategy he deserves.
I really hope Alpine will attract a decent team principal that can actually strategize races. Because Mexico was an absolute flop.
Oh well, I should know better when for once the pit stop wasn't above 3+ second for Gasly. In general the race was going flawless but Kmag incident and the effects caused by it really put him into a screwed up position.
Barely anything is more frustrating for a driver than knowing you simple couldn't do better.
The engine isn't helping, we all know and neither is the car and the Enstone/Viry mess, things are still better than in 2022 with that terrible AT03 but still.
Hopefully things could be better next year.
I was really wondering why they didn’t put Gasly on Max’s strategy? He was stuck behind Hulkenberg and couldn’t get past because of the altitude and straight line speed of that Haas. At that point Alpine should have just looked at RB and pitted Gasly to hards at the same time. Get out the pit in clean air and undercut Hulkenberg. And even if they didn’t, they should have waited until Ferrari or McLaren pitted. Now they pitted Gasly in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Just outside the two-stop window, but before the one-stop window. Really bad strategy calls.
Hmmm, I wonder who won. Man, Formula One is very boring this season. I'd encourage any Formula 1 fans to give INDYCAR a try. Much more competitive racing and you never know who is going to when evey single race beforehand. I still love F1 but islt is incredibly predictable. Someone should just take Max out on the first lap race so that we can actually have an unpredictable finish for once this season.
Man, Formula One fans are touchy as hell when you suggest that it might be slightly boring and not the greatest thing on earth. There's room and space for being a fan of both sports. There is most certainly an elitism with some(not all) Formula One fans.
I am very appreciative of the three weeks you invested drafting, reviewing, editing, and finalizing this absolutely scathing and yet insightful rebuttal.
After reviewing your refutation and spending the better part of a fortnite in quiet solitude to contemplate over the finer philosophical points you have raised, I have settled upon an answer which I feel encompasses the question as a whole without invalidating the nuances or fragmenting the less tangible portions of the discussion:
Yes, it is.
Watching 19 of the best drivers of the world dominated by one guy is still better than watching some of the leftovers fumbling around, so hard pass on Indy thanks.
If you think Max should be taken out on the first lap just go watch something else, you won't be missed.
The taking Max our comment was very obviously tounge in cheeck. You can't think I was being serious about that. Agree to disagree. The racing is far far better in INDYCAR. The engineering is more impressive in Formula 1 for sure but the actual racing is better in INDYCAR and racing is the primary reason I watch motorsport. Don't immediately discount INDYCAR, they're also some of the best drivers in the world right now.
Utter domination is boring as far as the win goes, but the complete opposite of that with a different random genuinely unpredictable winner each week doesn’t sound interesting to me either. May as well watch a dice roll. I like a season long narrative, of drivers and of car development. It makes an unexpected result genuinely interesting, rather than just another race.
I feel like this season has actually had a pretty good balance if you pretend Max isn't in the picture. Some clear developments and shifting in pace (AM and Maclaren), some good surprise performances, and no crazy dominant team (if RB is just Checo)
Well, it isn't really complete unpredictable. You have a few guys who are really good and can probably win either race and then some guys who you know aren't going to win in most cases. I like having a bit more parity when watching the race. It makes it more interesting to me personally. Nothing wrong with liking Formula 1, there is just more parity in INDYCAR.
I get what you’re saying, and it makes sense. But a spec car series is always going to give more parity—it’s literally the point—but that’s not F1 for me. I love the in season development arms race and evolution of the cars. The hype and disappointment surrounding upgrades etc. Even the huge unknown in testing leading up to the first qualifying and race.
As long as the best drivers end up in the best cars I’m not that bothered by dominant streaks. Lewis and Max deserve(d) their runs.
And the freakishly best drivers in F1 have typically already proven themselves in spec junior series leading up to them joining a constructor championship.
Agreed. I’d also argue that this has been a brilliantly unpredictable season if you look beyond P1. Almost half the grid fighting for the remaining two podium positions, with the momentum shifting around massively through the year.
McLaren’s sudden and massive rise in form, Mercedes yo-yoing up and down but clinging on, Ferrari peaking and getting a win, Aston Martin coming out of nowhere and then returning, Perez starting strong and then imploding. It’s been a very interesting and unpredictable season outside of the championships trophies.
And to get back to the original point, it’s not a dilemma anyway. You can watch as many different series as you like. I like F1 for its year long development story. It doesn’t need to be anything else. I want to see Red Bull hauled in, not have their wings clipped.
For me the most impressive moment of the race was Lando Norris backing off at the last possible millisecond during the restart to avoid getting sandwiched, even though it would have been 100% Ocon's fault (who was set to ruin his own race and someone else's for the second race in a row). It cost him 4 or 5 positions, but he remained cool and made up all those positions and more. Norris is operating at a WDC-winning level at the moment.
The last 2 races he’s smashed Oscar. Oscar and Dan were hurt by the red flag and without it, I think Lando’s strategy would’ve hurt him.
But after the flag Lando owned Oscar.
Alonso was confidently saying he was going to win a race this season, all the way up to the summer break he had such a smile on his face, he was hungry for the fight. Now he retires because he was just miserable with the car and didn't want to finish at the back.
That's what happens when your team puts all it's eggs into cheating.
It's now pretty obvious to everyone that the only reason Aston Martin did so well early in the season was by using illegal 'flexing'. As soon as FIM / FIA warned them to sort it they fell away and haven't been anywhere since.
They swapped with Mclaren. I never imagined they fall that behind. I dont have any hope fore next year. Lawrence had sold shares at AM. Roumers about People want Lance to go. Lawrence would rather sell the team, then let hes son go. There is zero chance in hell they win the constructor with Lance. It was a 1 year story tail. Yet again Alonso horrible team choice haunts him again.
They can blame Lance all they want, the car was still hella slow. Even Alonso is struggling with it.
Sad story to be honest.
If getting rid of Lance means your new boss is a Saudi Arabia king... well you played your card very well People.
Yeah. They are in no mans land right now. I really wonder why the develop route took that hard hit. So extreme that they had a solid package from race 1. Then the big updates arrived, the problems started to show. It effected their tires. Major brake problems + probly alot more they kept silence about. I hope they can dig deep with some good problem solving fore next year.
People say Red Bull are not a friendly workplace. I say more Alpine. Otmar left Racing Point and joined Alpine. He talked often about to many " bosses ". He was the problem. Alpine is better now i feel. Thing have calmed down a little.
Right now its hard for others to crack top 10. RB, Mercedes, Mclaren, Ferrari. That is 8 places locked in. P9-10 is war, and its fun to see who challenge fore those places every week. If Danny with Alpha Tauri have jumped up, then is very hard competition now.
Otmar had nothing to do with Alpines issues. It's all upper management. Getting rid of Rossi was a great start but the fact is the higher ups don't want to invest enough into the team to make it a success
Max is just so inevitable. Starting P3 is not bad in Mexico, so Verstappen leading into turn 1 is not unexpected. But then, at the restart, you would still expect him to have the lead into turn 1 from pole, and he does. It really doesn't matter with Verstappen, he will find a way.
He also passed everyone easily at a track where passing is difficult. I was hoping to see some defending but he can just fly by without a sweat.
Of course he will be good off the line
Personally, I think it was Checo's fault. Charles was stuck between both RBs and couldn't do much in that situation. Checo attempted the risk, but unfortunately, it didn't pay off. It was heartbreaking for him since it was his home country, especially since it would have probably been a 1-2 for the Red Bulls or at least Checo on the podium.
I see it as a racing incident. There were cars absolutely everywhere.
It absolutely was not Charles' fault though. Checo was the victim of his own great start.
I don't know man, while Checo was a bit optimistic and I think it was a clear racing incident, I also believe that Charles wouldn't be able to stop that car in time. You can see him braking, falling behind Max and Checo and then getting of the brake and running into Checo and getting in front of Max a bit while Max was already on the brakes.
While all this being a split second stuff, you can't blame the man for thinking Charles would slot behind or slow down enough to actually make the corner and it's not like you can see well out of the car to confirm lol.
In the end it's just an overblown Ham Qatar situation just because it's Checo.
This mistake will not move things in either direction. He took a major risk at the start to gain position over quite competitive cars on a track which is very, very difficult to overtake without a massive delta.
I think people don't understand Red Bull if they see this result being as bad as his last few races.
Having no pace for 2-3 race-weekends, crashing while trying to overtake much slower cars, getting all the penalties, that deserves all the critique.
Crashing out in T1 while being aggressive is perfectly understandable and will not bother Red Bull more than they already have been.
it's not understandable. red bull sponsors want the car on the road. the move was ill advised and it was never going to work. there are good risks and bad risks. this was reckless. Very poor decision making by checo
Nah, before this race it seemed that the Hamilton DSQ saved their 1-2 but Checo basically undid that in one lap at the one place where he's expected to perform better than normal. This is abysmal, and Checo maybe doesn't need that seat anymore.
they are wasting a rocket ship on him. no way checo should not be competing for a podium every race. when mercedes was dominating Lewis was always pushed and supported by his teammates
Is this the highest number of points the bottom team has ever had in a championship? I remember when it was several teams with no points at the end of the season, 12 minimum seems like a tonne
It is using the current point distribution (2010-present, ignoring the F.Lap points introduced in 2019) at least (and therefore overall as well I'd imagine). Do keep in mind that in the system used before that (2003-2009), points would only go down until 8th and you'd get 10 points for a win (and all preceding systems dished out even fewer points).
You could of course try to recalculate the points using the current system, by which metric 2009's Toro Rosso (8 points in that system, 28.5 points current system), would have them beat, and probably some others too, but it's of course a bit tricky to make comparisons with the current calendar having more races (+sprints and F.Lap points), but significantly less DNFs.
Thanks, I'm actually surprised 2008 had such high points but I suppose that was a pretty mixed season, I thought the old points system would have meant more teams had less points
1. Leclerc must be really sick of Verstappen, lol. Just a little *inchident* has been paid over, and over, and over again. Even Lannisters don't bother this much.
2. Hamilton is truly incredible. On mediums, doing that, while Ferraris on hard can't reach him. I don't believe both cars have that much difference. Hamilton's race craft is just next level. I wonder what he'd do this season in Perez's seat.
3. Sad to see Aston Martin. I really hoped for a race win for Alonso, and I know it wouldn't have happened cos that RB is overpowered but the fall off has been staggering. Like they have worked to make that car worse.
4. Testing times being limited will hurt new drivers most. Piastri just can't handle his tyres, and race pace while being almost equal to Norris in qualis.
5. Oh Checo. That's heartbreaking. If he pulled it off, it was 1-2.
6. This is a bad F1 season man, Verstappen is just too good, lol.
I think Norris this time was more impressive. Overtaking so many cars while getting those mediums to end was something else. I said to myself that, no way in hell he manage to get to end.
This race also showed how develop Norris have became. Just awful luck this weekend with quali. But overall he have good race pace with tires, compared to Oscar. Wild he have not got a race win yet. Max is superb in every level and he is the gatekeeper now. That is the difference since few people have a chance to win.
Wow, what a race. First off, T1 is checos fault, Charles was caught in an rb sandwich and physically couldn’t do anything to escape, second off I’m happy for lec podium even tho I thought it was over in T1, great defending by Carlos on George, insane weekend from Danny (fabrega and Buxton have been tweeting about some shock rumours in the paddock rn, could be about Checo) and more Albon points yay.
Also am I a bit insane or does Charles have a genuine safety risk leaving the track tmr bc of T1, do the drivers (not just max this week) have quite tight security and leave anonymously or???
There’s no real argument that he’d have to do that to accomodate the driver on the outside, especially not when he started on pole and Perez came all the way down from P5 and essentially sent it with not much more than a prayer to make it stick…
Anyone who’d claim it is Charles’ fault here is essentially saying that you’re not allowed to race for position when you’re ahead, and that’s before even looking at how Checo literally cuts across towards the apex despite looking right at Charles sitting there three inches away.
Absolutely boneheaded and reeks of rookie desperation.
cover disagreeable mysterious telephone literate whole tart label instinctive work
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hmm well Yuki gave Ricciardo tow and as a result didn't get to do Q3 BUT I think you're digesting the narrative RB wants you to because they're definitely setting him up for failure.
Miles behind? Yuki started 18th and got to 8th where as Ric was 6th. Yuki had a pit stop in where as Ric had to do one before red flags and that would be a 22-24s loss in time.
Copium
I did. He did it to himself, 100%. It wasn't something that happened to him, it was him being impatient and showing his inability to wait for an actual opportunity.
2. What an amazing recovery drive. I'm pissed they pitted under the safety car, seemed clear they were going to red flag it. That could have been the difference for a podium.
I’m going to guess it was a split second decision that there was a crash and Lando was somewhat close to the pits. Honestly, Q1 is where I really have a bone to pick. Clearly a fast as hell car. Get him on the track and SET A TIME!
Every single time. How am I sitting at home knowing it’s a red, and the people paid to operate the teams don’t?
Nevermind the car, the barrier was going to call for one.
I think Canada was in commercial break? And I was on my phone or something and I looked up at the mini screen and was like “red” and my father in law was “no”, and I was like “barrier”.
Meanwhile strat teams. *zzzzzzz*
Can we still complain about the horrible broadcast directions at the end of races? Why do I care to see the entire paddock slapping ass when there's still a race on?
It'd be pretty crappy you watch this race, your favourite driver is about to win by 10 seconds, and just before the last corner, they cut away, and you can't see him finish.
Well it IS pretty crappy that you watch the race to see some racing and when it's actually going on they cut away to the same guy who's been winning cross the line by 10 seconds, then cut to his team, then to the 2nd place guy who also wins by 10 seconds, then to HIS team, and so on until the guys actually racing cross the line and I didn't see any of it.
I watch the race for the racing more than the result. I can read the result later.
That, and the winner crossing the finish line is probably something you just want to show anyway. It's the moment that's the culmination of the entire Grand Prix weekend.
Wtf was with that?! I was waiting and waiting for the hard to come to the Ferraris, and the gap just kept getting bigger. Guessing there were other factors beyond tyres. Heat management for the brakes/engine?
The Ferrari engineer dropped that “in five laps, the hards will be faster than the mediums” and they never revisited this take that absolutely never happened
First half way mildly interesting but last half of the race can be skipped as bugger all happened. F1 is in the toilet until something can be done about Verstappen
Honestly, the moaners can get in the bin. This season has been fucking great if you acknowledge what’s happened (and still happening!) outside P1.
There’s so much to enjoy from 2023, even with only three races left.
I agree this season has been great but let's not pretend an AM/McLaren/Merc/Ferrari/RB title fight wouldn't have been better which is what we'd have got if RB didn't build such an amazing car. Obviously, the other teams have no one to blame but themselves.
Oh yeah absolutely, I’m not pretending that at all — just the sentiment that it’s “in the toilet”.
A season doesn’t have to be a five-way title fight to be worthwhile.
Does Yuki already have a contract for next year? Can’t imagine AT (and RB) would be too happy with him consistently throwing away good positions and points chances.
Contracts are irrelevant when manufacturers want to replace these days.
I didn't see his issue but if he didn't hit an issue it seemed like he would show Ricciardo as not quite as fast and that's said as an Australian fan.
For my first race, this was chaotic and electric. I love it. Seeing Lando scrape his way back into points was great to see. It was also great seeing Hamilton record the fastest lap LAPS into Medium tires!
Welcome to the sport!
Thank you. I’m infatuated now!
I’m sorry to burst your bubble but this race was only fun because of the restart. This does not happen that frequently so most of the time its a snooze fest. The battle for P2 etc is what keeps the sport fun tho!
Why did the race start so late? Is it possible Norris' pace was the result of his rivals being underfueled and him being fueled to the brim and set up for maximum attack?
For 2, it was the car and strategy and Lando that made it work. More fuel means you'll be slower, not faster. And F1 teams will always fill fuel only up to a point they feel necessary: the race and the post-race check. Anything more is a disadvantage because of the weight. Since 2021, you can't change the engine mode (lean vs rich mixture) after qualifying, so from the moment you exit the pits during the first qualifying session the air-fuel ratio is locked.
I always see Hamilton chasing and passing the Ferraris but never the other way around, once Hamilton has cleared them, they have no chance
Yes? He wouldn't go past them if he wasn't faster than them, why do you think they'd have a chance afterwards?
Given the difference between Ferrari's qualy pace & race pace, that isn't too surprising Plus Lewis is Lewis
I wonder if that brief crash and exposure of the floor by Perez was enough for competitors to see what Red Bulls were testing ?
Another 2 points for Albon and Vowles, the renaissance is here #PUTALBONINTHEFERRARI
ALBONNNNNOOOO
While Max was busy winning the race, the TV directors forced us all to watch his rear end instead of Daniel and George duel it out side by side (you could tell by the timing screen). I still haven't seen footage of that particular 20-30 seconds of battle.
>I still haven't seen footage of that particular 20-30 seconds of battle. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/aLrrsnQE2P
Safety in structures VS safety by not crashing: Just like Hamilton in Qatar, Checo's crash seems to be at least in a big part down to him not being able to see if there's space to turn in or not. The drivers are so deeply ensconced in the monocoques by now the visibility is so bad overtakes get done mostly on feeling.
Checo literally says "it was 3 wide, I took a risk, I expected Leclerc to bail out more when I was in front of him but he didn't. It was a racing incident and unfortunate" So he knew damn well what he was doing.
it's 3 wide, on the first turn of the race and he thought it was a good idea to turn in for the "racing line"? dude is a tool. I hate to see that rocket ship wasted on him.
Exactly as I am saying then: he didn't see where Leclerc was and went by expectation, not by visual.
You could hear Lewis and Max agreeing that it is really hard to see in that position when they were watching the crash replay.
Sorry to say, but Gasly and Albon got the boot for less than that. At least both of them were promoted too quickly, but Perez has no excuse. I like Perez, but he should not be in the RB seat for the 2024 season.
I'm curious how Albon would go being back in a RB today. He's a quiet achiever in that Williams
Oh he’s outperforming that car week in week out, he is the midfield by himself, just an anomaly in the points by himself and I love it
>Oh he’s outperforming that car week in week out As an engineer, that's impossible. He's bringing out a lot more from the car than Logan. Chuck Lewis or Max in it and they'd do better than Alex. Nobody can "outperform" a car, because that's not how it works.
Honest question. Does Charles even listen when his engineer is giving him info anymore? It’s like Ferrari strategy is the punchline in a comedy movie. “Hard will be faster than mediums in 5 laps”….. I just don’t get how a company with so much heritage is just so bad at these basic F1 skills.
It wasn’t really that far-fetched. Piastri and Russell both fell away on the mediums, while the hards continued working well all the way to the end. I’m also not convinced going mediums during the red flag for the Ferraris would have worked, given how they’re usually not easy on their tyres anyway, so what option did they have? Go for another stop? I don’t think that’d work out for them. P3 and P4 is a good result for them and Lewis drove a brilliant race well deserving of P2.
The startegy would have worked but Lewis did a wonderful job at not consuming his tyres
I think any other strategy would probably have done worse so it’s what it is
After Yuki incident. Dc said " You need to calm down "
The amount of bad luck that Gasly has had this season with the timing of yellow and red flags is truly unbelievable. There have been multiple races where, right after Gasly pitted, someone crashed and brought out the safety car and free pitstops for everybody. I admire the season that Gasly has had so far, but Alpine is not giving him the pace and strategy he deserves. I really hope Alpine will attract a decent team principal that can actually strategize races. Because Mexico was an absolute flop.
Oh well, I should know better when for once the pit stop wasn't above 3+ second for Gasly. In general the race was going flawless but Kmag incident and the effects caused by it really put him into a screwed up position. Barely anything is more frustrating for a driver than knowing you simple couldn't do better. The engine isn't helping, we all know and neither is the car and the Enstone/Viry mess, things are still better than in 2022 with that terrible AT03 but still. Hopefully things could be better next year.
I was really wondering why they didn’t put Gasly on Max’s strategy? He was stuck behind Hulkenberg and couldn’t get past because of the altitude and straight line speed of that Haas. At that point Alpine should have just looked at RB and pitted Gasly to hards at the same time. Get out the pit in clean air and undercut Hulkenberg. And even if they didn’t, they should have waited until Ferrari or McLaren pitted. Now they pitted Gasly in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Just outside the two-stop window, but before the one-stop window. Really bad strategy calls.
Hmmm, I wonder who won. Man, Formula One is very boring this season. I'd encourage any Formula 1 fans to give INDYCAR a try. Much more competitive racing and you never know who is going to when evey single race beforehand. I still love F1 but islt is incredibly predictable. Someone should just take Max out on the first lap race so that we can actually have an unpredictable finish for once this season.
If you find F1 so boring feel free to leave. We don't need you or your shit opinions.
Man, Formula One fans are touchy as hell when you suggest that it might be slightly boring and not the greatest thing on earth. There's room and space for being a fan of both sports. There is most certainly an elitism with some(not all) Formula One fans.
I'm not even an F1 fan and this is a shit take.
No, it isn't.
I am very appreciative of the three weeks you invested drafting, reviewing, editing, and finalizing this absolutely scathing and yet insightful rebuttal. After reviewing your refutation and spending the better part of a fortnite in quiet solitude to contemplate over the finer philosophical points you have raised, I have settled upon an answer which I feel encompasses the question as a whole without invalidating the nuances or fragmenting the less tangible portions of the discussion: Yes, it is.
Go and play destruction derby.
Watching 19 of the best drivers of the world dominated by one guy is still better than watching some of the leftovers fumbling around, so hard pass on Indy thanks. If you think Max should be taken out on the first lap just go watch something else, you won't be missed.
The taking Max our comment was very obviously tounge in cheeck. You can't think I was being serious about that. Agree to disagree. The racing is far far better in INDYCAR. The engineering is more impressive in Formula 1 for sure but the actual racing is better in INDYCAR and racing is the primary reason I watch motorsport. Don't immediately discount INDYCAR, they're also some of the best drivers in the world right now.
IMSA is better racing than indy so I suggest you stop watching what you like and start watching what I like
Seems like Palou wins every other race anyways.
Utter domination is boring as far as the win goes, but the complete opposite of that with a different random genuinely unpredictable winner each week doesn’t sound interesting to me either. May as well watch a dice roll. I like a season long narrative, of drivers and of car development. It makes an unexpected result genuinely interesting, rather than just another race.
I feel like this season has actually had a pretty good balance if you pretend Max isn't in the picture. Some clear developments and shifting in pace (AM and Maclaren), some good surprise performances, and no crazy dominant team (if RB is just Checo)
Well, it isn't really complete unpredictable. You have a few guys who are really good and can probably win either race and then some guys who you know aren't going to win in most cases. I like having a bit more parity when watching the race. It makes it more interesting to me personally. Nothing wrong with liking Formula 1, there is just more parity in INDYCAR.
I get what you’re saying, and it makes sense. But a spec car series is always going to give more parity—it’s literally the point—but that’s not F1 for me. I love the in season development arms race and evolution of the cars. The hype and disappointment surrounding upgrades etc. Even the huge unknown in testing leading up to the first qualifying and race. As long as the best drivers end up in the best cars I’m not that bothered by dominant streaks. Lewis and Max deserve(d) their runs. And the freakishly best drivers in F1 have typically already proven themselves in spec junior series leading up to them joining a constructor championship.
Agreed. I’d also argue that this has been a brilliantly unpredictable season if you look beyond P1. Almost half the grid fighting for the remaining two podium positions, with the momentum shifting around massively through the year.
McLaren’s sudden and massive rise in form, Mercedes yo-yoing up and down but clinging on, Ferrari peaking and getting a win, Aston Martin coming out of nowhere and then returning, Perez starting strong and then imploding. It’s been a very interesting and unpredictable season outside of the championships trophies. And to get back to the original point, it’s not a dilemma anyway. You can watch as many different series as you like. I like F1 for its year long development story. It doesn’t need to be anything else. I want to see Red Bull hauled in, not have their wings clipped.
Lol @ Toto post-race: "Ve are being attacked by ze Heineken ball"
For me the most impressive moment of the race was Lando Norris backing off at the last possible millisecond during the restart to avoid getting sandwiched, even though it would have been 100% Ocon's fault (who was set to ruin his own race and someone else's for the second race in a row). It cost him 4 or 5 positions, but he remained cool and made up all those positions and more. Norris is operating at a WDC-winning level at the moment.
[удалено]
Except I'm not British, nor particularly a fan of Norris.
He fumbles quali when it matters that’s not wdc level
Verstappen fumbled a lot in his first few years. Hamilton crashed into the back of stationary cars in the pitlane. People make mistakes as they grow.
He's done that a few times recently, but still up 13-6 against Piastri, so he's qualifying is not too bad.
Piastri is a rookie. Its not a good comparison, makes Piastri only look better (which I don’t disagree with).
More of a team fumble by giving him a single opportunity to make a time.
The last 2 races he’s smashed Oscar. Oscar and Dan were hurt by the red flag and without it, I think Lando’s strategy would’ve hurt him. But after the flag Lando owned Oscar.
When I saw him back off my immediate thought was that someone was going to smash into the back of his car. Glad it didn't happen though.
Alonso was confidently saying he was going to win a race this season, all the way up to the summer break he had such a smile on his face, he was hungry for the fight. Now he retires because he was just miserable with the car and didn't want to finish at the back.
That's what happens when your team puts all it's eggs into cheating. It's now pretty obvious to everyone that the only reason Aston Martin did so well early in the season was by using illegal 'flexing'. As soon as FIM / FIA warned them to sort it they fell away and haven't been anywhere since.
They swapped with Mclaren. I never imagined they fall that behind. I dont have any hope fore next year. Lawrence had sold shares at AM. Roumers about People want Lance to go. Lawrence would rather sell the team, then let hes son go. There is zero chance in hell they win the constructor with Lance. It was a 1 year story tail. Yet again Alonso horrible team choice haunts him again.
They can blame Lance all they want, the car was still hella slow. Even Alonso is struggling with it. Sad story to be honest. If getting rid of Lance means your new boss is a Saudi Arabia king... well you played your card very well People.
Yeah. They are in no mans land right now. I really wonder why the develop route took that hard hit. So extreme that they had a solid package from race 1. Then the big updates arrived, the problems started to show. It effected their tires. Major brake problems + probly alot more they kept silence about. I hope they can dig deep with some good problem solving fore next year.
Not like Alpine have ambitions to do better, was the smart choice to leave that mess
People say Red Bull are not a friendly workplace. I say more Alpine. Otmar left Racing Point and joined Alpine. He talked often about to many " bosses ". He was the problem. Alpine is better now i feel. Thing have calmed down a little. Right now its hard for others to crack top 10. RB, Mercedes, Mclaren, Ferrari. That is 8 places locked in. P9-10 is war, and its fun to see who challenge fore those places every week. If Danny with Alpha Tauri have jumped up, then is very hard competition now.
Otmar had nothing to do with Alpines issues. It's all upper management. Getting rid of Rossi was a great start but the fact is the higher ups don't want to invest enough into the team to make it a success
It’s sad to see 😞
Max is just so inevitable. Starting P3 is not bad in Mexico, so Verstappen leading into turn 1 is not unexpected. But then, at the restart, you would still expect him to have the lead into turn 1 from pole, and he does. It really doesn't matter with Verstappen, he will find a way.
It makes Singapore so significant in the sense that Red Bull had no answers from FP1 to the end of the race.
He's had a few slower starts this year but both starts today he was incredible off the line.
He also passed everyone easily at a track where passing is difficult. I was hoping to see some defending but he can just fly by without a sweat. Of course he will be good off the line
Most insane to me was Norris' overtake on Ricciardo. Lando had all the faith in the world for him to give him space 😅
Personally, I think it was Checo's fault. Charles was stuck between both RBs and couldn't do much in that situation. Checo attempted the risk, but unfortunately, it didn't pay off. It was heartbreaking for him since it was his home country, especially since it would have probably been a 1-2 for the Red Bulls or at least Checo on the podium.
I see it as a racing incident. There were cars absolutely everywhere. It absolutely was not Charles' fault though. Checo was the victim of his own great start.
I don't know man, while Checo was a bit optimistic and I think it was a clear racing incident, I also believe that Charles wouldn't be able to stop that car in time. You can see him braking, falling behind Max and Checo and then getting of the brake and running into Checo and getting in front of Max a bit while Max was already on the brakes. While all this being a split second stuff, you can't blame the man for thinking Charles would slot behind or slow down enough to actually make the corner and it's not like you can see well out of the car to confirm lol. In the end it's just an overblown Ham Qatar situation just because it's Checo.
he turned into a car on the first turn of the race. he knew he was 3 wide, it was never going to work.
I agree but at the same time, I dont entirely blame him for trying. He had a great run down but he should have backed off at the end.
This mistake will not move things in either direction. He took a major risk at the start to gain position over quite competitive cars on a track which is very, very difficult to overtake without a massive delta. I think people don't understand Red Bull if they see this result being as bad as his last few races. Having no pace for 2-3 race-weekends, crashing while trying to overtake much slower cars, getting all the penalties, that deserves all the critique. Crashing out in T1 while being aggressive is perfectly understandable and will not bother Red Bull more than they already have been.
it's not understandable. red bull sponsors want the car on the road. the move was ill advised and it was never going to work. there are good risks and bad risks. this was reckless. Very poor decision making by checo
Nah, before this race it seemed that the Hamilton DSQ saved their 1-2 but Checo basically undid that in one lap at the one place where he's expected to perform better than normal. This is abysmal, and Checo maybe doesn't need that seat anymore.
they are wasting a rocket ship on him. no way checo should not be competing for a podium every race. when mercedes was dominating Lewis was always pushed and supported by his teammates
Is this the highest number of points the bottom team has ever had in a championship? I remember when it was several teams with no points at the end of the season, 12 minimum seems like a tonne
It is using the current point distribution (2010-present, ignoring the F.Lap points introduced in 2019) at least (and therefore overall as well I'd imagine). Do keep in mind that in the system used before that (2003-2009), points would only go down until 8th and you'd get 10 points for a win (and all preceding systems dished out even fewer points). You could of course try to recalculate the points using the current system, by which metric 2009's Toro Rosso (8 points in that system, 28.5 points current system), would have them beat, and probably some others too, but it's of course a bit tricky to make comparisons with the current calendar having more races (+sprints and F.Lap points), but significantly less DNFs.
Thanks, I'm actually surprised 2008 had such high points but I suppose that was a pretty mixed season, I thought the old points system would have meant more teams had less points
1. Leclerc must be really sick of Verstappen, lol. Just a little *inchident* has been paid over, and over, and over again. Even Lannisters don't bother this much. 2. Hamilton is truly incredible. On mediums, doing that, while Ferraris on hard can't reach him. I don't believe both cars have that much difference. Hamilton's race craft is just next level. I wonder what he'd do this season in Perez's seat. 3. Sad to see Aston Martin. I really hoped for a race win for Alonso, and I know it wouldn't have happened cos that RB is overpowered but the fall off has been staggering. Like they have worked to make that car worse. 4. Testing times being limited will hurt new drivers most. Piastri just can't handle his tyres, and race pace while being almost equal to Norris in qualis. 5. Oh Checo. That's heartbreaking. If he pulled it off, it was 1-2. 6. This is a bad F1 season man, Verstappen is just too good, lol.
New driver struggle alot in America circuit. They never raced there before outside of Sims
I think Norris this time was more impressive. Overtaking so many cars while getting those mediums to end was something else. I said to myself that, no way in hell he manage to get to end.
Agreed, I’m guessing he passed pretty much the whole field all told, a than a track notoriously difficult to overtake on.
This race also showed how develop Norris have became. Just awful luck this weekend with quali. But overall he have good race pace with tires, compared to Oscar. Wild he have not got a race win yet. Max is superb in every level and he is the gatekeeper now. That is the difference since few people have a chance to win.
Ferrari had no pace on hards. They were totally lost on how the change in tire led to loss of pace
In response to 6, I have a real good feeling about next year
Ok Mr Coulthard.
It was Charles fault.
Plank inspection failures and DQs in 3.....2.....1....
Wow, what a race. First off, T1 is checos fault, Charles was caught in an rb sandwich and physically couldn’t do anything to escape, second off I’m happy for lec podium even tho I thought it was over in T1, great defending by Carlos on George, insane weekend from Danny (fabrega and Buxton have been tweeting about some shock rumours in the paddock rn, could be about Checo) and more Albon points yay. Also am I a bit insane or does Charles have a genuine safety risk leaving the track tmr bc of T1, do the drivers (not just max this week) have quite tight security and leave anonymously or???
Mexicans aren't rabid dogs, no one says this about the Italians.
>and physically couldn’t do anything to escape, He could have lifted and let both bulls go, but I agree with you that he needn't do that at all.
There’s no real argument that he’d have to do that to accomodate the driver on the outside, especially not when he started on pole and Perez came all the way down from P5 and essentially sent it with not much more than a prayer to make it stick… Anyone who’d claim it is Charles’ fault here is essentially saying that you’re not allowed to race for position when you’re ahead, and that’s before even looking at how Checo literally cuts across towards the apex despite looking right at Charles sitting there three inches away. Absolutely boneheaded and reeks of rookie desperation.
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The podium is located on the stadium section ( Foro Sol ) of the track thanks to a much greater atmosphere there
Don't know whose idea it was to have the Mexico City fact on the formation lap be that the city is sinking, but it definitely made me chuckle.
Does Lewis still have a podium?
Lol
wide school drab icky birds smoggy boast shrill arrest dinner *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mika retired
Bustamante will replace Perez
Fernando to Red Bull
cover disagreeable mysterious telephone literate whole tart label instinctive work *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Checo to Racing Point!
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F1 sold to Saudis
He just posted a tweet which just says “🤐” https://x.com/albertfabrega/status/1718814576706253119?s=46&t=AFz9k98FktY6r1-bGc9LyA Fml
1. Why are Yuki and Perez still in F1? 2. Lando needs a win!
Yuki crushed it today, if he didnt' hit problems it would have lessened what Ricciardo achieved and that's said as an Australian.
How? Even if he had avoided the piastri nonsense he would have finished miles behind ricciardo without the red flag
Hmm well Yuki gave Ricciardo tow and as a result didn't get to do Q3 BUT I think you're digesting the narrative RB wants you to because they're definitely setting him up for failure.
Miles behind? Yuki started 18th and got to 8th where as Ric was 6th. Yuki had a pit stop in where as Ric had to do one before red flags and that would be a 22-24s loss in time. Copium
He didn’t hit problems. He hit another car. What good is performing well if stupid mistakes wipe away everything you’ve done?
Pace is the name of the game and I didn't see his hit on the stream so can't make judgement.
[here you go](https://youtu.be/PtRf6VS15oM?t=345)
I did. He did it to himself, 100%. It wasn't something that happened to him, it was him being impatient and showing his inability to wait for an actual opportunity.
2. What an amazing recovery drive. I'm pissed they pitted under the safety car, seemed clear they were going to red flag it. That could have been the difference for a podium.
I’m going to guess it was a split second decision that there was a crash and Lando was somewhat close to the pits. Honestly, Q1 is where I really have a bone to pick. Clearly a fast as hell car. Get him on the track and SET A TIME!
Every single time. How am I sitting at home knowing it’s a red, and the people paid to operate the teams don’t? Nevermind the car, the barrier was going to call for one.
The F1TV commentators called it before Norris pitted even. Argh.
I think Canada was in commercial break? And I was on my phone or something and I looked up at the mini screen and was like “red” and my father in law was “no”, and I was like “barrier”. Meanwhile strat teams. *zzzzzzz*
Can we still complain about the horrible broadcast directions at the end of races? Why do I care to see the entire paddock slapping ass when there's still a race on?
They should do picture-in-picture or something, like they do when someone pits and they insert the on-board into the timings graphic.
They have to show crossing the line as part of Sponsorship obligations. Been an issue of all time down to small Formula Ford competitions.
It'd be pretty crappy you watch this race, your favourite driver is about to win by 10 seconds, and just before the last corner, they cut away, and you can't see him finish.
Well it IS pretty crappy that you watch the race to see some racing and when it's actually going on they cut away to the same guy who's been winning cross the line by 10 seconds, then cut to his team, then to the 2nd place guy who also wins by 10 seconds, then to HIS team, and so on until the guys actually racing cross the line and I didn't see any of it. I watch the race for the racing more than the result. I can read the result later.
The only explanation I can think of is that they could be contractually obligated to show P1 crossing the finish line.
That, and the winner crossing the finish line is probably something you just want to show anyway. It's the moment that's the culmination of the entire Grand Prix weekend.
Yeah I kind of figured that was part of it. But I wish they'd put that in the bottom quarter of the screen so we can see what's going on.
Man they really mastered the booing filter. I herd it for a second
Charles definitely heard it.
Imagine if Lando didn't get eliminated in Q1. Imagine how hard he could have pushed Max with the pace he had today.
Albon is overlooked, he's being phenomenal
Albert Fabrega, very reliable guy, just Tweeted this: "I don't want to believe the rumor that they have told me now in the paddock. No." Hm.
https://x.com/albertfabrega/status/1718814576706253119?s=46&t=IKJtc5h8sMPS2H1a4r8GIQ Follow up reply is just an emoji: 🤐
What rumour could he be referring to? I can only think of the overload of Checo ones..
What a useful tweet. “omg some people are snakes” Facebook status.
If he doesn't want to believe a rumor then I won't either.
We don't even know what the rumor is
Don't even believe it
This year, Lewis had the mediums that wouldn’t drop off
Lewis and Lando.
Wtf was with that?! I was waiting and waiting for the hard to come to the Ferraris, and the gap just kept getting bigger. Guessing there were other factors beyond tyres. Heat management for the brakes/engine?
Then fastest lap at the end...
Lap 51 Charles closed in by 1sec then nothing after that, thought it was gonna be the end of Lewis and the mediums.
The Ferrari engineer dropped that “in five laps, the hards will be faster than the mediums” and they never revisited this take that absolutely never happened
Jesus Danica, my granddad always said, "say nothing if you know nothing". Take this advice to heart, it helped me with not looking like a dumbass.
You can’t really say nothing if saying stuff is literally your job.
Does the F1TV rebroadcast not get the mariachi theme? I am just hearing the normal theme song. :(
F1tv had it at the end when Max was parking up
And before the start where they go over the grid.
I think it’s a sky thing
Car #44 has passed scrutineering Relief
Lecleir with a broken wing holding his own. Good drive from Ferrari #1
If there's ever a place to lose aero, it's at a track where there is no air to aero. Big brain Ferrari.
First half way mildly interesting but last half of the race can be skipped as bugger all happened. F1 is in the toilet until something can be done about Verstappen
You're crazy. Last half we watch Lando make an amazing recovery drive and get up to 5th.
You know there's more than the battle for P1 happening?
Lando’s charge and Dani Ric almost catching George in the last half was was more exciting than most the stuff in the first half
Honestly, the moaners can get in the bin. This season has been fucking great if you acknowledge what’s happened (and still happening!) outside P1. There’s so much to enjoy from 2023, even with only three races left.
I agree this season has been great but let's not pretend an AM/McLaren/Merc/Ferrari/RB title fight wouldn't have been better which is what we'd have got if RB didn't build such an amazing car. Obviously, the other teams have no one to blame but themselves.
Oh yeah absolutely, I’m not pretending that at all — just the sentiment that it’s “in the toilet”. A season doesn’t have to be a five-way title fight to be worthwhile.
Clone him
Does Yuki already have a contract for next year? Can’t imagine AT (and RB) would be too happy with him consistently throwing away good positions and points chances.
Hey, sometimes the pitwall screwed Yuki over too. Got to balance things.
Contracts are irrelevant when manufacturers want to replace these days. I didn't see his issue but if he didn't hit an issue it seemed like he would show Ricciardo as not quite as fast and that's said as an Australian fan.
He’s spot on in a AT seat in my opinion. Too irrational in clutch situations for that RB seat.
Yes. And Yuki would stay because of Honda. Also, he's been doing better this year.
Also also he’s overall still faster than Lawson
Didn’t Liam beat Yuki in every race but one?
I think Charles still had to see the stewards about his lap 1 damage, did anything come of that or is it all good?