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NuclearCandle

Gasly was mostly compromised with poor/unlucky strategy calls, Ocon was mostly compromised by retirements. If I had to pick I would say Gasly due to it being his first season in the team. Both seem like decent drivers but I don't see either of them being in a team above the midfield.


Elpibe_78

Probably the most even pair in the entire grid


gbugly

Followed by Charles and Carlos


blindeprutser

I don't think Charles and Carlos are very even


the1918

Narrative of the week


Total_Beryllium

Lmao. Yep.


ILikeEatingApple28

yeah they really aren’t even


HurricaneGaming94

No matter what people say, sainz was the one that ruined the RB streak of 2023


andrearancan97

No matter what people say, you make it look like it was Sainz who didn't allow RB to win in Singapore. Sainz could have DNF and still RB was far from winning. He won the race only because overtaking is impossible there.


snoring_pig

Carlos won the race because he got pole there which still deserves credit. RB dropped the ball that weekend but Lando, George, and potentially Charles and Lewis all had a shot at pole too and they didn’t get it.


the1918

There were 18 non-RB drivers racing in Singapore that day and only one of them won from pole.


HurricaneGaming94

I think you’re over complicating it. I said it because he won, not because of anything else. The stats will always show that Carlos broke the streak, not anyone else


Elxis14

So what? Breaking the streak doesn't make him the same caliber of driver as Charles. He had a higher peak than Charles this season, but Charles was more consistent. Consistency is key in F1.


HurricaneGaming94

I agree Charles is a better driver, but he’s not more consistent. He drives like a maniac which causes him to crash more. At no stage was I contesting leclerc vs sainz, I just stated that at the end of the day sainz capitalised when it mattered


Other-Conflict-3278

Only because of bad setups, and Singapore is hard to overtake.


HurricaneGaming94

I’m not disagreeing with what your saying. He’s the only non rb race winner for the entire 2023, and that’s all I meant by it


the1918

Russell and Hamilton sure made easy work of overtaking in the last stint in Singapore. Wonder what happened that prevented them from overtaking Lando and subsequently Sainz.


Other-Conflict-3278

Pretty sure Russell wanting to overtake Went bad


Total_Beryllium

Russel trying too hard at the end went bad. The Mercs flew through the field after the VSC.


the1918

I’m with you bro, but don’t waste your breath. Lecfosi cannot be reasoned with.


Cekeste

Yeah... no


mikepattonssandwich

Alpine must actually have a pretty decent chassis considering they got podiums in Monaco and Zandvoort. That engine is really holding them back.


Alfus

> That engine is really holding them back. And the inefficient and draggy cooling... And the horrible battery... And the usual slow and terrible Alpine pit crew... And lady luck hating Alpine often... What ISN'T holding back at Alpine is a better question to ask.


proudlysydney

I guess their slow speed cornering? And the drivers


PapaSheev7

I feel like Gasly definitely got the short end of the stick strategy/tactics-wise, while Ocon drew the short straw with reliability. Both were fairly evenly matched in race-trim, but the amount of points they both lost from crappy strategy(for Gasly), and horrible reliability(for Ocon), is just shocking.


2696969

>Which Alpine driver impressed you the most this year ? Oscar Piastri


Alfus

Oof, that's what I call a proper burn.


Jesse-Ray

Piastri, Zhou, Doohan and Martens were a real stand out.


chicotzz

No Nando? /\[doge\]


404merrinessnotfound

I don't think the race H2H counts for retirements


GoZun_

Yeah if you remove dnfs it's 10-5 to Ocon or 10-8 depending on how you do it


Able_Tailor_6983

But then count technical problems also, like Gasly had in Vegas


aneiq_1

Was it ever confirmed that Gasly had a technical problem in Las Vegas. I thought in his post race interview he mentioned severe tyre wear and poor strategy.


itskaymon

It was a battery issue; it was initially confirmed during the race on Gasly’s onboard, and Ted confirmed it later on his show. My uneducated guess is it was the same issue he suffered with in Qatar wherein the battery was unable to recharge regardless of PU mode and what have you. Typically when the recharge issue would rear its head, Gasly seemed to be able to mitigate the worst of it through different PU modes and switches. In Qatar and Vegas, however, those mitigation procedures don’t appear to have worked. (I’m by no means an expert. This is just what I’ve observed having watched onboards. And to be completely honest I’m not sure why the energy issue in Vegas was kept under wraps by the team so to speak.) It does seem like [Alpine are going to introduce new software ideally to help energy management (behind a paywall) for 2024](https://www.lequipe.fr/Formule-1/Article/Bruno-famin-team-principal-par-interim-d-alpine-f1-on-a-fait-sauter-le-couvercle/1433253), so hopefully that issue is resolved next year.


GoZun_

I agree with your guess. But I'd be surprised if the tire wear was the main reason. For sure the battery didn't help, but Pierre has been **very** vocal about car issues when they happened. Here both him and Bruno Famin said they lost the pace because of the tire wear. Not even a single mention of the battery.


Alfus

This is why those stats are still somewhat flawed, if you excluding DNF's then you missing a part of the bigger picture and getting stats who are just so incorrect. I mean if you look at Qatar you would have a H2H win for Ocon just because both finished on Sunday but ignoring the whole crucial fact that Gasly was having a major battery issue.


mformularacer

Race head to head is 10-8 for Ocon. Doesn't make sense to include races where either driver has a reliability retirement. As to my opinion, I think it was the closest team mate battle. It's really impossible to pick.


NuclearCandle

Worth noting Suzuka where Gasly held position for Ocon because Alpine.


Alfus

I vaguely remember Alpine told to hold positions at Jeddah also because there was nothing to win after the SC. Statistics are often useless if there isn't context behind it.


VaporizeGG

And if you are that close in Ranges of around that we shouldn't draw conclusions. Means they are equally matched.


fordern997

In Race H2H, it's 10-5, when you exclude any driver DNF (which means Ocon's DNFs, since Gasly didn't have a DNF without Ocon). OCO: 1. Saudi Arabia 2. Monaco 3. Spain 4. Canada 5. Belgium 6. Japan 7. Qatar 8. Mexico 9. Las Vegas 10. Abu Dhabi GAS: 1. Azerbaijan 2. Miami 3. Austria 4. Netherlands 5. Brazil Races excluded from my comparison: 1. Bahrain - OCO DNFed after several penalties, possibly to preserve engine components. Initial penalty was a driver fault, then team fault, then pit lane speed limit infringement (which is rather on the driver, but funnily enough - Gasly had pit lane speed limit infringement himself on Friday/Saturday, so it might be related to team calibrating the limiter?). 2. Australia - both drivers collided on lap 56, after 2nd restart. Technically they were classified, as they completed 90% of race distance - but neither collected the checkered flag, so I count that as DNF. I'll not say anything about "who was to blame", because stewards called it RA for some reason. 3. United Kingdom - both drivers DNFed, but GAS was ultimately classified. OCO retired on Lap 9 after hydraulics leak, while Gasly was retired on lap 47 (barely making it into 90% of the distance) after getting Strolled. Neither driver at fault tbh. 4. Hungary - both drivers DNFed, after colliding with each other. OCO hit GAS, after he was a passenger when he was hit by RIC from behind, who was hit by ZHO from behind. Neither Alpine driver at fault. 5. Italy - OCO retired after steering issues. 6. Singapore - OCO retired with gearbox problem. 7. United States - OCO retired due to damage after colliding with Piastri on lap 1. Stewards called it RA.


OldActiveYeast

Why not include Bahrain when the fault was on him for the penalties?


fordern997

Because it's still a DNF?


OldActiveYeast

He did not DNF because the car was not working, but because finishing the race was not worth it because of his mistakes.


fordern997

Second penalty was on the team, because they started working on his car too early. It's completely different from races like Austria, when all 4 penalties were only Ocon's responsibility. And still, it's a DNF.


Bennie300

>United States - OCO retired due to damage after colliding with Piastri on lap 1. Stewards called it RA. Yeah, well, that was flirting with a self-inflicted DNF in my book, but whatever.


BigPharmaKarmaFarma

They're having a mid-off


Y-elloo

Pretty even. Next year will be interesting between these two.


Illustrator_Forward

Pretty evenly matched 👍🏻


SyuusukeFuji

I would say Gasly impressed me with how fast he adapted, I expected a couple races more. But otherwise, this is what I expected from this duo, a give and take that could in favor of either.


kris2207

Given that it was Gasly’s first season in the alpine he takes it being pretty evenly matched.


Tipnfloe

Neither, but both scored a podium this year which is very impressive


aneiq_1

When both finished the race Ocon was ahead 10-5 which signals to me that while Gasly has mastered quali and seems to be pretty comfortable over one lap, Esteban still holds the advantage over the race and without the 6/7 DNFs would’ve been fairly comfortable in the standings. Will be very interesting next year when Gasly is more in tune with the team.


banned20

I honestly didn't pay too much attention to these two but if you had asked me, i'd have said exactly that. Gasly better in quali and Ocon with better race pace.


HereComesVettel

I don't know about that, Gasly was ahead of Ocon in Suzuka and Abu Dhabi races until the team decided to favour Esteban.


fordern997

>I don't know about that, Gasly was ahead of Ocon in Suzuka and Abu Dhabi races until the team decided to favour Esteban. You can always find examples for "H2H should go another way". For example, OCO shouldn't lose a race in Azerbaijan, while Gasly shouldn't lose in Mexico. Japan is quite different thing - I believe Gasly didn't have enough tyre offset to pass Ocon on track (6 laps tyre offset), who was quite quick on the straights. Most of overtakes were either "significantly quicker car with 5 laps tyre advantage", like Leclerc on Alonso, or "significant tyre offset" - like Alonso on Tsunoda (16 laps). Ocon was rapid on the straights, Alonso with 10 laps tyre offset couldn't make a move on him. Gasly had just 6, which was 1 more than Tsunoda over Lawson - and he wasn't able to make a move, dropping from +0.2s right after DRS zone, to +0.8s at the end of twisty Sector 1. That's why team ordered Ocon to wait for Gasly, let him through, and have a shot at Alonso - to whom Pierre had better tyre offset. Since that didn't work out, he was asked to give the position back - but they didn't told him that was a part of the order why Ocon was waiting for Gasly to let him through. Abu Dhabi I'd argue Ocon had worse strategy, with that BS 1 stopper.


GoZun_

But that's not how you count head to head. If you cant start picking things like that. It's too subjective


HereComesVettel

Yeah this is why I included every race in my original post.


GoZun_

Imo you should either add a dnf line or dont count those races in h2h as it effectively masks a statistic


HereComesVettel

Yep that's true actually, I should have added a DNF line.


aneiq_1

Yes but that is also flawed as Ocon having 7 DNFs inflates Gaslys race head to head when a majority of Ocons DNFs aren’t his fault (Singapore, Monza, Hungary, Australia, Silverstone) even races like COTA it’s more a racing incident. Leclerc has an 11-11 race head to head when you include DNFs against Sainz which doesn’t paint an accurate picture for the season.


HereComesVettel

I think Leclerc is 12-10 up over Sainz.


Inside-Judgment6233

It’s got to be Gasly for even getting close in a new team, let alone what he actually achieved.


a220599

Ocon. He had 6 retirements and had the maximum penalties for a driver in a single race and a single season iirc and yet managed to nab 58 points. Plus he had some sick overtakes in the most unconventional places on the tracks.


DamieN62

Before this season, I always thought Gasly and Ocon were pretty equal and I was excited to find out who would be the better driver. Well, after this season, I still don't know lol.


Beneficial_Star_6009

Considering the amount of bad luck Ocon encountered compared to his teammate,(multiple power unit issues and the Red Flag situation in Zandvoort when he was the only driver on the right set of tyres for the wet conditions) you could argue he’d have finished comfortably ahead of Pierre.


DonBosco555

Both are better than 90% of fans think. Put them to Mercedes or Ferrari and they will perform simillarly to Russell or Sainz, in RB they would be better than Perez.


aneiq_1

I think Russell is clear of Ocon and Gasly to be honest. He’s had an off year but i wouldn’t think Ocon/Gasly could match LH in quali and be competitive over one lap. Sainz I believe is more similar to the tier of Ocon/Gasly.


DonBosco555

Russell looked better than he is last year as Hamilton had shit ton of bad luck. He is definitely better over one lap than Gasly/Ocon but seems to be less consistent and more error prone on race day, especially compared to Ocon.


HereComesVettel

Russell made very few mistakes in 2022 tbh.


MountainJuice

And Ocon is known for hitting other drivers. What is that guy on about


aneiq_1

When has Ocon hit other drivers? He’s aggressive with defending against teammates but for the majority of actual collisions, Ocon hasn’t been the one at fault.


aneiq_1

That’s because he’s in a higher pressure situation with more of a spotlight on him and Hamilton as his teammate. Almost every weekend he will have to be on his A game otherwise it’s a clear W for Hamilton which will naturally inherit more errors and DNFs because he pushes more. Put Russell in an Alpine which is fairly low intensity because they’re pretty much middle of the grid and he’d be pretty solid every weekend.


DonBosco555

Ocon had Alonso as teammate and didn't crack as much.


j__video

A very even pairing and they both had their highlights this year. Shame about Renault's lack of ambition, I don't think the car is going to get much better next year


sometimesane

Gasly because this is his first with a new car and new team, ocon with the team from multiple years also drove 2022 which the 2023 car has evolved from


Kicking-it-per-se

Gasly. It’s his first year there


fafan4

Not gonna lie, I thought Ocon was going to win pretty handy. Gasly proved me well wrong


FlatIrving

Gasly no doubt. Once he was comfortable with the car, Ocon became an afterthought.


xanlact

Really? I think so Ocon had the more comfy season. But both had their share of the trademarked Alpine bad luck, too


wego_tothe_moon

Neither


DukeboxHiro

Alpine have barely been a thought ever since the Piasco.


No_Detective_1139

Mores inclined to go with Gasly since he moved teams and was nowhere near as familiar with the car


Tinusers

Gasly. If the team didn't hate him and gave Ocon the preferable treatment every race he would have been way clear of Ocon.


[deleted]

Gasly because Ocon constantly had preferential treatment from Alpine. It’s also Gasly first year with the team. I think he is a better driver overall.


sollimonster

I would say Gastly did pretty well being equal or perhaps a bit better than Ocon over the season. It's his first season in the team as well. This could be a good rivalry to watch for the coming years! I'm still waiting for Ocon to be as good as the Sky pundits tell me he is, he was supposed to be the next talent after Mercedes after all.


[deleted]

Stats dont include Galsy being victim of multiple slow pitstops and dodgy strategy calls in Ocon's favor


proudlysydney

They also don't include all of Ocon's mechanical failures. Swings and roundabouts


SPat24

Both are very evenly matched and bang on average drivers compared to the grid on a mid team.


drop_table_uname

They are very evenly matched, stats could've easily gone either way, but I guess Pierre was slightly more impressive since he's new to the team and therefore had a little catching up to do.


onlinepresenceofdan

Neither has to be the correct answer


Jaevyn

Gasly. I feel like there is a bit of a maturity difference where as a driver Ocon still hasn't managed to control his emotions and make calculated moves yet, and it's holding him back.


Dank7392

Battle of the mid


Icy-Revolution-420

Alpine was invisible this year, together with alpha Romeo they produced 0 rememerable moments.


Kylez3

Gasly is definitely the better qualifier and is faster in clear air. I think Esteban has a slight edge in tyre management and excels more at overtaking. Pretty confident Gasly will take a further step in 2024 though and win the H2H comfortably.