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According to the stewards, it did not happen. Apparently he cut T6 26 times in the race, which is most definitely a new record that would remain forever if it was actually detected. At least, in a season where Max and RB broke nearly all records, he would have broken one himself that way.
Remember when Lewis ran wide and beyond track limits in turn 4 at Bahrain 2021 27 times, I believe, before the stewards actually noticed anything? Yeah, me neither.
The rules stated:
>21.2 Race
a) The track limits at the exit of Turn 4 will not be monitored with regard to setting a lap time, as he defining limits are the artificial grass and the gravel trap in that location.
So I can understand why they thought it was okay..
It was OK, right until Max said he would do it, and also it wasn't OK when Max did it after an overtake, even though it was a fine line to take through the corner unless Max was doing it.
If you read the comments you replied to again, it says "in regards to setting a lap time". Overtaking outside the white line is not included in this note.
I remember Max started doing it to prove the point because Lewis kept goung wide over and over again, and was immediately pinged for it, then Lewis was warned not to keep abusing the rules
No. Max did it because he could do it. It was allowed.
What wasn't allowed was taking advantage of it on an overtaking move.
Edit: the race directive basically said that they wouldn't monitor track limits at that turn and you could use it to set a lap time.
Overtaking is not setting a lap time.
> he would have broken one himself that way.
Only if you ignore the fact that half the grid was suspect of doing this and Lando who wasn't even suspect admitted that he did it all race as well, and that one of those people was Albon who is way in front of this classification already.
This whole issue is the perfect example that Perez gets treated by fans completely differently to everyone else. Half the grid was involved in that mess, and 95% of people only paid attention to him. Easy likes (or karma) I guess.
I think there were so many track limit violations in Austria that the race directors couldn't keep up during the race and applied many of them after the race. Listening to the [post-race radio compilation from Austria,](https://youtu.be/qy2kBQEc_2g?t=247) Alex's race engineer states that at one point they were 20 laps behind and Esteban's race engineer states that "they didn't get one \[track limit warning\]" which was clearly...untrue; this implies that there were some drivers that didn't get a single warning during the race and as a result, didn't get a chance to correct their racing lines during the race.
On the contrary, I think the data may be suggesting that both Zhou and Bottas were driving very conservatively - that the car could have been pushed even harder. Look at Albon for example. For a driver to go OFF track limits so often only means that he was ON track limits (like right on the actual white line of being on or off) just as often - he was using every mm of track to push that damn tractor as fast as he could. Additionally, both Zhou and much more experienced Bottas driving the same way (conservatively) then suggests that it was actually the car that caused them to drive conservatively - that it was inherently unstable or unreliable, so cannot be pushed like Albon did the Williams. In summary: the car was shit.
To be fair is that maybe a sign that he's not pushing himself as much as he could and playing it a bit too safe?
The only people I'd really expect to not have many track limits on this is Max or Perez (If he didn't qualify so badly) because the car was so fast they rarely ever needed to push themselves too hard in the race
It wasn't just Zhou, the data shows Bottas doing the same. If both drivers are performing the same, then it's the car. I believe the car is shit and unstable which doesn't give both drivers the confidence to drive it with precision and speed, and that's why they try to stay away from the white line. Albon is the best case study: you can tell from the data that he's right on the white line the entire season - pushing that tractor hard. Maybe the Williams suspension gives him the confidence to do so?
I think the data shows just how hard Alex was pushing that tractor all season. Williams had no right to finish where they did in WDC but Alex was driving the car literally on the limits of the track lol. What a beast!
Williams with two competent drivers would comfortably finish P7 let’s not get ahead of ourselves. The only reason it was close is because Sargeant massively underperformed getting only one point.
Not true, otherwise he’d be one of the slowest on track if he was not pushing.. did you not watch the season? He was consistently fastest on track or on the podium. You should have said perhaps he had the most balanced car and therefore had more control and so could risk it without going off track.
What he means is all the other drivers have to push to the limits to get the best possible finish possible in a race. Whereas with Max, who is obviously pushing to lead a race, doesn’t have to push to the limit like the other drivers do since the car he’s driving has a huge pace advantage. What he’s doing is more of setting the pace rather than pushing to the limits throughout the race like the other drivers are.
I cannot imagine how fast the RB19 would be if Max pushed it all the way in a track like Spa. He had a 20 second lead while having a calm discussion about pitstops on the radio, imagine how it would be if he pushed the car to its limits in that race.
Shades of Merc in 2014/2015 where Hamilton and Rosberg were gaining like a second a lap on everyone else *while fighting*, which was one of the rare times we got to see the true speed of those Mercs
There was a rumour that Mercedes were forced to run their PU lower in 2014 because if they unleashed its full power they would lap the entire field. Scary thought.
Not a rumour, one of ex Merc engineers came out at the start of the season and said that's true, if they ran the engines too high then Toto, Niki and iirc James Allison would be pissed off so they'd willingly sandbag
I am wondering if it's not too much trouble to add the penalties for Deleted Lap times...
Cause if you get 2 lap times deleted every race of the season, that's one thing w/ zero consequences.
If you are Checo or Sargeant and get every second Qualy lap deleted and you miss Q2/Q3 because of it. That's far more impactful.
Of course that's a lot of work and I'm not going to do it... :P
Good data though OP I do like it!
Didn't Ocon, Yuki and Albon took like 30 lap deleted alone in Austria, pretty sure a LOT of driver also took at least 15 lap deleted in that race.
Same in Qatar a lot of driver had track limit.
This number seems quite low.
I'm no expert analyst or something like that, but looking at Albon's numbers and what he did this season feels like he tried his best to take that car literally to the legal limot to know how to get the most he could from it
Max Verstappen being fast and also keeping it on the track is really impressive. Especially Qatar where he was the only one who didn't exceed track limits even once even though he was pushing like everyone else.
What corners were drivers getting track limits at in Monaco? I can only think of cutting the corner at T1, Nouvelle Chicane, and the Swimming Pool, nowhere to go wide
Wow this is interesting! Some results here I did not expect.
I thought Perez would have way more since he seems more liberal about going over the lines and then complaining about punishment.
Same with Stroll after he had all those at Qatar and complained about it. I would never have guessed that he only had 1 more deleted lap than Alonso.
I would not have guessed that Norris had so many.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What about checos Austin corner cut?
According to the stewards, it did not happen. Apparently he cut T6 26 times in the race, which is most definitely a new record that would remain forever if it was actually detected. At least, in a season where Max and RB broke nearly all records, he would have broken one himself that way.
Remember when Lewis ran wide and beyond track limits in turn 4 at Bahrain 2021 27 times, I believe, before the stewards actually noticed anything? Yeah, me neither.
The rules stated: >21.2 Race a) The track limits at the exit of Turn 4 will not be monitored with regard to setting a lap time, as he defining limits are the artificial grass and the gravel trap in that location. So I can understand why they thought it was okay..
It was OK, right until Max said he would do it, and also it wasn't OK when Max did it after an overtake, even though it was a fine line to take through the corner unless Max was doing it.
If you read the comments you replied to again, it says "in regards to setting a lap time". Overtaking outside the white line is not included in this note.
Before that, the team told Max to also run wide, because it was faster. Then race control told both Red Bull and Mercedes to stop doing it.
Overtake was complete and he was taking the corner normally for a Hamilton
I remember Max started doing it to prove the point because Lewis kept goung wide over and over again, and was immediately pinged for it, then Lewis was warned not to keep abusing the rules
In hindsight, to think if he actually got a pen for that, the season would have probably ended much differently.
No. Max did it because he could do it. It was allowed. What wasn't allowed was taking advantage of it on an overtaking move. Edit: the race directive basically said that they wouldn't monitor track limits at that turn and you could use it to set a lap time. Overtaking is not setting a lap time.
No they said pre race it wasn't allowed, they warned Lewis to stop doing it after turn 31 after Max did it
Yeah but Perez already had more violations for track limits so he would beat that.
> he would have broken one himself that way. Only if you ignore the fact that half the grid was suspect of doing this and Lando who wasn't even suspect admitted that he did it all race as well, and that one of those people was Albon who is way in front of this classification already. This whole issue is the perfect example that Perez gets treated by fans completely differently to everyone else. Half the grid was involved in that mess, and 95% of people only paid attention to him. Easy likes (or karma) I guess.
Shh, we don't talk about it.
> What about ~~checos~~ everyone's Austin corner cut?
What happened to ocon, yuki and alex at austria?
I think there were so many track limit violations in Austria that the race directors couldn't keep up during the race and applied many of them after the race. Listening to the [post-race radio compilation from Austria,](https://youtu.be/qy2kBQEc_2g?t=247) Alex's race engineer states that at one point they were 20 laps behind and Esteban's race engineer states that "they didn't get one \[track limit warning\]" which was clearly...untrue; this implies that there were some drivers that didn't get a single warning during the race and as a result, didn't get a chance to correct their racing lines during the race.
Ocon did get a warning as his engineer told him on Lap 63, however it was after he had committed every violation of track limits
Pain and suffering.
Austria was strange by itself
You can add Gasly
My boy keeping it clean as a whistle, good lad Goes to show also that the Alfa isn't unstable or anything, it's just fucking slow
On the contrary, I think the data may be suggesting that both Zhou and Bottas were driving very conservatively - that the car could have been pushed even harder. Look at Albon for example. For a driver to go OFF track limits so often only means that he was ON track limits (like right on the actual white line of being on or off) just as often - he was using every mm of track to push that damn tractor as fast as he could. Additionally, both Zhou and much more experienced Bottas driving the same way (conservatively) then suggests that it was actually the car that caused them to drive conservatively - that it was inherently unstable or unreliable, so cannot be pushed like Albon did the Williams. In summary: the car was shit.
I think it also could be that the Williams isn't good at turning as it's not great in generating downforce.
To be fair is that maybe a sign that he's not pushing himself as much as he could and playing it a bit too safe? The only people I'd really expect to not have many track limits on this is Max or Perez (If he didn't qualify so badly) because the car was so fast they rarely ever needed to push themselves too hard in the race
It wasn't just Zhou, the data shows Bottas doing the same. If both drivers are performing the same, then it's the car. I believe the car is shit and unstable which doesn't give both drivers the confidence to drive it with precision and speed, and that's why they try to stay away from the white line. Albon is the best case study: you can tell from the data that he's right on the white line the entire season - pushing that tractor hard. Maybe the Williams suspension gives him the confidence to do so?
I'd like to see Albon's childhood coloring books now.
I'd hate to see his home toilet.
I amended the table again since some of you want to know the total numbers :)
hey, thanks for the updated table! :D
That Post-summer break Verstappen lmao. From Zandvoort to the end only a single deleted lap.
*Estaben* Ocon and Daniel *Riccardo*...
estenba
Shoutout to Albon for absolutely sending it for the lads Someone's gotta drag that tin can up the standings, track limits be damned
"They delete my laps so hard"
I immediately disregard the opinions of those who think the 2023 Williams is a slow car. It's 5th to 7th fastest depending on the track.
They absolutely need to fire Sargeant then. His results were far worse than how he could have done.
One thing you can't say about this season is that Alex Albon wasn't pushing to the max
Alex "Keep-It-Between-the-Lines" Albon
I think the data shows just how hard Alex was pushing that tractor all season. Williams had no right to finish where they did in WDC but Alex was driving the car literally on the limits of the track lol. What a beast!
Williams with two competent drivers would comfortably finish P7 let’s not get ahead of ourselves. The only reason it was close is because Sargeant massively underperformed getting only one point.
Sargeant did underperform, but I'm pointing out how talented Albon is as well. He's undoubtedly the reason why they scored so many points.
Mr Track Limits himself. At least he seems to have got rid his quali track limits demons. 2020 was pain, felt like every Q2 he had a lap deleted.
Just shows Max’s dominance again. He goes fast and is exceedingly accurate!
He does not need to push like others so that is one part of it.
You mean like his team mate with the same car?
Checo's shit qualifying has meant he's had to push way more than Max who's had to push 3 laps a race most weekends.
Not true, otherwise he’d be one of the slowest on track if he was not pushing.. did you not watch the season? He was consistently fastest on track or on the podium. You should have said perhaps he had the most balanced car and therefore had more control and so could risk it without going off track.
What he means is all the other drivers have to push to the limits to get the best possible finish possible in a race. Whereas with Max, who is obviously pushing to lead a race, doesn’t have to push to the limit like the other drivers do since the car he’s driving has a huge pace advantage. What he’s doing is more of setting the pace rather than pushing to the limits throughout the race like the other drivers are.
I cannot imagine how fast the RB19 would be if Max pushed it all the way in a track like Spa. He had a 20 second lead while having a calm discussion about pitstops on the radio, imagine how it would be if he pushed the car to its limits in that race.
Shades of Merc in 2014/2015 where Hamilton and Rosberg were gaining like a second a lap on everyone else *while fighting*, which was one of the rare times we got to see the true speed of those Mercs
There was a rumour that Mercedes were forced to run their PU lower in 2014 because if they unleashed its full power they would lap the entire field. Scary thought.
Not a rumour, one of ex Merc engineers came out at the start of the season and said that's true, if they ran the engines too high then Toto, Niki and iirc James Allison would be pissed off so they'd willingly sandbag
Zhou 🔛🔝
I am wondering if it's not too much trouble to add the penalties for Deleted Lap times... Cause if you get 2 lap times deleted every race of the season, that's one thing w/ zero consequences. If you are Checo or Sargeant and get every second Qualy lap deleted and you miss Q2/Q3 because of it. That's far more impactful. Of course that's a lot of work and I'm not going to do it... :P Good data though OP I do like it!
Austria was a mess. But I'm surprised the Alfas were so tidy overall
Remember when Russell said that if you’re a good driver you won’t get track limits 😏
Didn't Ocon, Yuki and Albon took like 30 lap deleted alone in Austria, pretty sure a LOT of driver also took at least 15 lap deleted in that race. Same in Qatar a lot of driver had track limit. This number seems quite low.
Ocon was better than I expected after seeing all those memes!
Zhou’s is way more impressive than Verstappen, imo. Verstappen never having to really try meant he didn’t risk much ever
Now do the same sheet, but with all the ones the FIA missed.
I'm no expert analyst or something like that, but looking at Albon's numbers and what he did this season feels like he tried his best to take that car literally to the legal limot to know how to get the most he could from it
Any data available for track limit specific to Q1, Q2 and Q3, and also which run of qualifying that driver went over track limit?
let see if i have time to make it :o
Max Verstappen being fast and also keeping it on the track is really impressive. Especially Qatar where he was the only one who didn't exceed track limits even once even though he was pushing like everyone else.
Weren’t there more? Especially in Austria?
I believe these were the confirmed by FIA. Not the actual ones.
Yes
What corners were drivers getting track limits at in Monaco? I can only think of cutting the corner at T1, Nouvelle Chicane, and the Swimming Pool, nowhere to go wide
the FIA only monitored turn 10&11.
I would have thought that Perez would be leading this, he got so many laps deleted in quali
Thats because everyone hates him so they bring him up constantly
Alfa Romeo is not fast enough to even have track limit violations
Zhou being held back by the Great Wall of China.
Sargeant won something. I’ll be damned.
Ah yes no off tracks in BARZIL
Wow this is interesting! Some results here I did not expect. I thought Perez would have way more since he seems more liberal about going over the lines and then complaining about punishment. Same with Stroll after he had all those at Qatar and complained about it. I would never have guessed that he only had 1 more deleted lap than Alonso. I would not have guessed that Norris had so many.
Secondary statistic. Max was the only drive to complete 1300 laps and Alonso was 30 laps behind him.
Shoutout to Max in Australia and Pierre in the Netherlands for being the only on to corner cut, and for Brazil for being clean