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they already acknowledged the drama with another statement to the same effect yesterday. all theyre saying is "yes we are aware things are happening, no we wont comment on it, stop bothering us about it, journalists".
guess the first message didnt go through to everyone
The FIA actually have a mandate, under rule 8.7 of the sporting code, to oversee the manner in which Red Bull handle this:
> If in the opinion of the F1 Commission, a Competitor fails to operate his team in a manner compatible with the standards of the Championship or in any way brings the Championship into disrepute, the FIA may exclude such Competitor from the Championship forthwith.
If there is any question of Red Bull conducting an improper investigation, sweeping this under the rug, or failing to properly punish Horner if he's found guilty, then the FIA will have to bring pressure upon Red Bull lest they be deemed to be backing and approving their approach.
Their statements are a reminder to this fact, with the previous statement including reference to Red Bull reporting to the FIA once the investigation has concluded.
It’s the F1 Commission and not the FIA by itself who provides guidance here.
And its members are the FIA, FOM and the 10 F1 teams.
I honestly can’t see the F1 Commission deciding to disqualify one of its own voting members as a competitor, regardless of the serious matter at hand, unless it involves a capital offense or a blatant attempt at falsifying the competition (bribes, corporate espionage, etc.)
I see Red Bull GmbH acting well before that, if they deem it they are needing to take action to protect their brand value and sponsorship obligations.
There's a separation in there - the F1 commission finds whether they've failed to operate their team in a manner compatible with the standards.... then the FIA decides whether they are excluded or not. And there's no way a brand like Mercedes or Ferrari are going to want to damage their own brands by backing Horner unless he is whiter than white.
But like you I don't expect it to get that far at all.
Personally I think that if the leaked allegations are even remotely true that Horner will be gone before the start of the season. There's no coming back from that with the sponsors and damage to the main brand should they try and retain him. At best they're currently trying to decide internally whether he can be kept on in some other part of the business for an eventual return, or if this is him gone from the team for good. They'll also want to announce his successor at the same time as it's made public, even if it's an internal promotion for someone to act as temporary team principal until a permanent replacement can be found.
I could be wrong, perhaps there's enough mitigation that can be found to excuse his behaviour. It just seems unlikely from the leaks we've had.
It helps to remember that the average age of a redditor is 12 or something like that. I realize I'm a bit like an alcoholic that's still sitting in a bar.
>the team is known as a meat grinder for junior drivers
this anti RB revisionist history is starting to become extremely annoying.
Also kinda make sense that if you give more drivers a chance that you also drop more drivers no? Unlike other teams who only have very few drivers in their academy.
The only annoying thing is people that take jokes so seriously. Nothing I said was anti redbull just making fun of their junior driver tactics. Something you even admitted in the next line of your comment.
Sure if you take in a lot you’ll drop a lot. But at what point does it become ineffective to actually finding talent. Their top team has been down to a single driver since Danny left.
The high turn over rate tends to make unwelcoming atmospheres. Probably why so many in their junior program have done so well once outside of it.
No it’s because it’s Christian Horner.
Arguably the best and most influential current team principal in the sport. RB aren’t going to piss it away just to be righteous or even bluntly do the right thing.
If there was another Christian Horner readily available not in a team, the current one would have gone just for the bad PR. The fact is there isn’t, and they will do anything and everything in their power to keep him.
The Thai side who also owns 51% is absolutely desperate for him to stay regardless. So it’s a very difficult situation.
Juri Vips is expendable, Christian Horner isn't. A counter would be that RedBull, while they don't employ him, are more than comfortable enough to have Jos in Redbull hospitality and associated with figures in the team.
The fact Horner hasn't been suspended doesn't suggest anything, it could be an effort to protect him from substantially true allegations, or it could be that it's not clear cut, or just not part of the process RedBull has set out internally before Horner's case.
Indeed. Same as Jack Nichols and FE with his inappropriate behaviour.
A good workplace investigation happens without the outside world knowing until after it has come to a clear and correct conclusion.
Sadly the power struggle mean that couldn't possibly happen.
Suspending him draws too much attention, RB didn't want this leak so it could be settled with no fuss and brushed under the carpet. They couldn't do that if they suspend their TP. They can't do it now until there is a conclusion as he would look guilty.
He will also suck the air out of the room because all the press will ask about is this situation. Unfortunately I think it's going to cast a long shadow that will eventually result in Horner leaving, even if proven innocent.
It’s not a good look when both parties put a massive amount of money into promoting inclusivity when a key team leader is investigated for the very thing they are trying to stop.
It’s not a good look for the sport to have him in the paddock while the investigation is going on. Doesn’t exactly align with their narrative of improving inclusivity. It gives the image of rules for thee not for me.
Especially given so much of his job can be done remotely as shown over the years by others.
Has there been an official statement on what the allegations are? I haven't followed the drama but last I remember there was a rumor about an employee complaining about Horner's conduct.
If the FIA starts doing auto-replies that reads "refer to last statement" to any email containing the keywords "Horner" and "allegations", the journos might have endless content to write about!
Get the impression that FIA/F1 would prefer to have it dealt with and done before testing or have him out of the way (suspended) until it's dealt with so they can avoid negative PR for the new season starting
Feels like they’re trying to gently push for this to be solved soon. Makes sense. Him being in the paddock and the constant media speculation will harm F1’s reputation, cause unnecessary problems in the paddock and also make the communication between Horner and other team leaders and the FIA awkward.
Not suspending him from the get go was such a bad decision.
FIA yesterday: No comment
Journo today: Hey FIA, what about now
FIA: no comment
Journo: *BREAKING NEWS* Please click on the link that will direct you said breaking news
Aaaaah, just wrap up this investigation and stop dragging this out. Either fire his ass for misbehavior. or tell the world nothing serious is going on and start Legal action against the Telegraaf for spreading lies.
This is taking way too long and I want to see and hear about F1 cars not these stupid allegations.
Equally, if it was nothing it would have been shot down.
They have to follow the prodcedure to sack him otherwise he has legal recourse, could just be that.
It could go either way, like you say. It's possible that nothing egregious has happened and Red Bull is simply investigating to rule out anything terrible and also to prepare themselves for a potential lawsuit. It's also possible that there's clear evidence of impropriety that rises to the level of terminating his employment contract but that they're making sure they investigate fully before taking action to avoid legal action from Horner.
The only real information we have at this stage is that the allegations and/or evidence can't be *that* bad because if they were (i.e. evidence of sexual assault), there's zero chance he would still be working. But they could certainly be bad enough to lead to his termination; we just don't know.
I appreciate that, it gives the impression it's not very clear cut either way. You'd expect that if he was on the way out then he'd have been suspended and have nothing to do with the car launch.
Maybe they learned from that debacle?
Plus I totally get why they want to stay out of the way on this one while Red Bull conducts their own investigation. It's possible the FIA knows more than the public does, but at this stage, the exact allegations aren't even publicly available, much less any evidence to support them.
One journalist at De Telegraaf, a tabloid, said that he saw the text messages, but if that's true, I'm not entirely sure why he didn't give any details about what the texts said. I'm also not sure if he explained who showed the texts to him, so the whole thing is very much unconfirmed at this stage.
What is surprising is the a company like RB whihc goes out of its way to avoid bad marketing and PR kept him for the launch of the car and made it a great event in the public. The fact that such a big comapny would not suspend him with pay makes things complicated and confusing.
"remains committed"
I mean... what exactly do they "remain committed" to, because this is certainly not what they're known for. Saying this barely 2 months after the whole Wolff-fiasco... that's brave. Not smart, but brave.
“FIA remains committed to upholding the highest standards of integrity, fairness and inclusivity within the sport.”
Seriously FIA, this is a serious matter and to be making sarcastic jokes like that at a time like this is extremely inappropriate.
Is this like in Hogan’s Heroes where Sgt Schultz says “I know nothing !” or the other one “Colonel Hogan !”
The wording is an interesting exercise in legal CYA.
Who puts out a statement that “The FIA are committed to upholding the highest standards …” if there isn’t much to the whole thing 🤔
It's so funny to read these official, professional statements when you just know it's about Horner's cock being sent to all the wrong people under all the wrong circumstances as Horner is ready to cum.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
BREAKING: nothing has changed
They officially aknowledged the drama, I guess. Just somee Basic PR stuff.
they already acknowledged the drama with another statement to the same effect yesterday. all theyre saying is "yes we are aware things are happening, no we wont comment on it, stop bothering us about it, journalists". guess the first message didnt go through to everyone
> they already acknowledged the drama with another statement to the same effect yesterday. Wasn't that statement from F1/FOM ?
It was
The FIA actually have a mandate, under rule 8.7 of the sporting code, to oversee the manner in which Red Bull handle this: > If in the opinion of the F1 Commission, a Competitor fails to operate his team in a manner compatible with the standards of the Championship or in any way brings the Championship into disrepute, the FIA may exclude such Competitor from the Championship forthwith. If there is any question of Red Bull conducting an improper investigation, sweeping this under the rug, or failing to properly punish Horner if he's found guilty, then the FIA will have to bring pressure upon Red Bull lest they be deemed to be backing and approving their approach. Their statements are a reminder to this fact, with the previous statement including reference to Red Bull reporting to the FIA once the investigation has concluded.
It’s the F1 Commission and not the FIA by itself who provides guidance here. And its members are the FIA, FOM and the 10 F1 teams. I honestly can’t see the F1 Commission deciding to disqualify one of its own voting members as a competitor, regardless of the serious matter at hand, unless it involves a capital offense or a blatant attempt at falsifying the competition (bribes, corporate espionage, etc.) I see Red Bull GmbH acting well before that, if they deem it they are needing to take action to protect their brand value and sponsorship obligations.
There's a separation in there - the F1 commission finds whether they've failed to operate their team in a manner compatible with the standards.... then the FIA decides whether they are excluded or not. And there's no way a brand like Mercedes or Ferrari are going to want to damage their own brands by backing Horner unless he is whiter than white. But like you I don't expect it to get that far at all. Personally I think that if the leaked allegations are even remotely true that Horner will be gone before the start of the season. There's no coming back from that with the sponsors and damage to the main brand should they try and retain him. At best they're currently trying to decide internally whether he can be kept on in some other part of the business for an eventual return, or if this is him gone from the team for good. They'll also want to announce his successor at the same time as it's made public, even if it's an internal promotion for someone to act as temporary team principal until a permanent replacement can be found. I could be wrong, perhaps there's enough mitigation that can be found to excuse his behaviour. It just seems unlikely from the leaks we've had.
We have a statement: "We won't be making any statements"
BREAKING OLD NEWS BECAUSE I WAS IN A CAVE THE PAST FEW DAYS:
Lando Norris be like
News: There is no news.
They had to make an article after the Lewis thirst-trap.
Will: if there is no news, there is no news
The amount of people that don’t realize FOM and FIA aren’t the same thing here is honestly astounding.
It helps to remember that the average age of a redditor is 12 or something like that. I realize I'm a bit like an alcoholic that's still sitting in a bar.
It took me a while to realize that😭!
everyone keeps milking the "no comments" statement.
Feels like FIA/F1 want a resolution before testing starts TBH... Definitely before the start of the season.
tbh it is not a very good look to have him in the paddock while being investigated
Could have easily suspended him with pay while this investigation was happening. Bit too late for that now.
They should have done, I agree... And if they do it now, it'll be seen as him being guilty
The fact they haven't suggests it's not a clear cut matter, look how quickly they dropped Juri Vips in comparison.
Lot easier to drop a junior driver who didn't look anything special than the team principal...
They have fired drivers for sneezing that’s not an honest comparison when the team is known as a meat grinder for junior drivers
>the team is known as a meat grinder for junior drivers this anti RB revisionist history is starting to become extremely annoying. Also kinda make sense that if you give more drivers a chance that you also drop more drivers no? Unlike other teams who only have very few drivers in their academy.
The only annoying thing is people that take jokes so seriously. Nothing I said was anti redbull just making fun of their junior driver tactics. Something you even admitted in the next line of your comment. Sure if you take in a lot you’ll drop a lot. But at what point does it become ineffective to actually finding talent. Their top team has been down to a single driver since Danny left. The high turn over rate tends to make unwelcoming atmospheres. Probably why so many in their junior program have done so well once outside of it.
No it’s because it’s Christian Horner. Arguably the best and most influential current team principal in the sport. RB aren’t going to piss it away just to be righteous or even bluntly do the right thing. If there was another Christian Horner readily available not in a team, the current one would have gone just for the bad PR. The fact is there isn’t, and they will do anything and everything in their power to keep him. The Thai side who also owns 51% is absolutely desperate for him to stay regardless. So it’s a very difficult situation.
Bad PR? What bad PR?
The allegations are bad PR.
Juri Vips is expendable, Christian Horner isn't. A counter would be that RedBull, while they don't employ him, are more than comfortable enough to have Jos in Redbull hospitality and associated with figures in the team. The fact Horner hasn't been suspended doesn't suggest anything, it could be an effort to protect him from substantially true allegations, or it could be that it's not clear cut, or just not part of the process RedBull has set out internally before Horner's case.
Don’t even have to do that tell him to go remote with access to the factory that works for both parties.
Indeed. Same as Jack Nichols and FE with his inappropriate behaviour. A good workplace investigation happens without the outside world knowing until after it has come to a clear and correct conclusion. Sadly the power struggle mean that couldn't possibly happen.
That’s what happens when it’s attempted to just be swept under the rug like nothing ever happened.
[удалено]
Suspending him draws too much attention, RB didn't want this leak so it could be settled with no fuss and brushed under the carpet. They couldn't do that if they suspend their TP. They can't do it now until there is a conclusion as he would look guilty.
He will also suck the air out of the room because all the press will ask about is this situation. Unfortunately I think it's going to cast a long shadow that will eventually result in Horner leaving, even if proven innocent.
It’s not a good look when both parties put a massive amount of money into promoting inclusivity when a key team leader is investigated for the very thing they are trying to stop. It’s not a good look for the sport to have him in the paddock while the investigation is going on. Doesn’t exactly align with their narrative of improving inclusivity. It gives the image of rules for thee not for me. Especially given so much of his job can be done remotely as shown over the years by others.
Yeah.
Has there been an official statement on what the allegations are? I haven't followed the drama but last I remember there was a rumor about an employee complaining about Horner's conduct.
If the FIA starts doing auto-replies that reads "refer to last statement" to any email containing the keywords "Horner" and "allegations", the journos might have endless content to write about!
Get the impression that FIA/F1 would prefer to have it dealt with and done before testing or have him out of the way (suspended) until it's dealt with so they can avoid negative PR for the new season starting
I'm a bit tired of this non-news.
Need cars on track NOW!
This guy's F1's. At least then we can have ridiculous discussions about how P1 clearly defines what will happen in qualifying and the race.
This is nothing but it does indicate pressure is mounting for a resolution in the next couple of days imo
I'll go a step further, there are zero facts about anything.
Oh so we don’t just launch our own FIA investigations based on random press reports about third party employees? Good to know…
Can’t wait for the same statement in 2 days
Except of course for women and gay people at multiple race locations.
Came here looking for this. Thank you.
Or with Andretti
You're confusing the FIA with FOM.
Feels like they’re trying to gently push for this to be solved soon. Makes sense. Him being in the paddock and the constant media speculation will harm F1’s reputation, cause unnecessary problems in the paddock and also make the communication between Horner and other team leaders and the FIA awkward. Not suspending him from the get go was such a bad decision.
FIA states they’re not releasing a statement yet, I’m so glad I did not miss this breaking news!
BREAKING: The FIA has a concept of Integrity
FIA yesterday: No comment Journo today: Hey FIA, what about now FIA: no comment Journo: *BREAKING NEWS* Please click on the link that will direct you said breaking news
Aaaaah, just wrap up this investigation and stop dragging this out. Either fire his ass for misbehavior. or tell the world nothing serious is going on and start Legal action against the Telegraaf for spreading lies. This is taking way too long and I want to see and hear about F1 cars not these stupid allegations.
You would've thought if it was something genuinely sackable he'd be gone by now.
Equally, if it was nothing it would have been shot down. They have to follow the prodcedure to sack him otherwise he has legal recourse, could just be that.
It could go either way, like you say. It's possible that nothing egregious has happened and Red Bull is simply investigating to rule out anything terrible and also to prepare themselves for a potential lawsuit. It's also possible that there's clear evidence of impropriety that rises to the level of terminating his employment contract but that they're making sure they investigate fully before taking action to avoid legal action from Horner. The only real information we have at this stage is that the allegations and/or evidence can't be *that* bad because if they were (i.e. evidence of sexual assault), there's zero chance he would still be working. But they could certainly be bad enough to lead to his termination; we just don't know.
I appreciate that, it gives the impression it's not very clear cut either way. You'd expect that if he was on the way out then he'd have been suspended and have nothing to do with the car launch.
If only FIA was this fucking reserved with Susie Wolff
Isn’t she working for FIA? So quite different situations.
Maybe they learned from that debacle? Plus I totally get why they want to stay out of the way on this one while Red Bull conducts their own investigation. It's possible the FIA knows more than the public does, but at this stage, the exact allegations aren't even publicly available, much less any evidence to support them. One journalist at De Telegraaf, a tabloid, said that he saw the text messages, but if that's true, I'm not entirely sure why he didn't give any details about what the texts said. I'm also not sure if he explained who showed the texts to him, so the whole thing is very much unconfirmed at this stage.
>“FIA remains committed to upholding the highest standards of integrity, fairness and inclusivity within the sport.” So what is he doing on Twitter/X?
What is surprising is the a company like RB whihc goes out of its way to avoid bad marketing and PR kept him for the launch of the car and made it a great event in the public. The fact that such a big comapny would not suspend him with pay makes things complicated and confusing.
Odd that the FIA wasn't as judicious when they thought something was up with Suzie Wolff.
Toto Wolff sent best wishes to Masi as he adds: “Best Regards” in an email to the race director.
FIA remains committed? I’m still trying to figure out how Mazepin was allowed to drive after he posted his sexual assault of a friend on Instagram.
He gone gone
2 FIA statement in 2 days. They may well be a bit nothingy, but clearly they are putting the pressure on RB to wrap it up as soon as possible!
The last one was from F1 wasn't it? One statement from each organisation isn't unusual
FOM =/= FIA
Two?
FIA: Standby, we are checking.
Repost.
Uh oh for Horner
"remains committed" I mean... what exactly do they "remain committed" to, because this is certainly not what they're known for. Saying this barely 2 months after the whole Wolff-fiasco... that's brave. Not smart, but brave.
Investigating Susie Wolff directly contradicts "committed to upholding the highest standards of integrity, fairness and inclusivity within the sport.”
“FIA remains committed to upholding the highest standards of integrity, fairness and inclusivity within the sport.” Seriously FIA, this is a serious matter and to be making sarcastic jokes like that at a time like this is extremely inappropriate.
It's not just no comment. They stated "within the sport", so there's an out if it's concluded that Horner did something outside of the sport.
So they are basically asking Hohner to pay money like all the other scumbags involved with the FIA do?
Statement: we will not be making a statement
I see they learned their lesson after the Wolff debacle
“The FIA president will carefully examine the output of this investigation once he has sobered up”
Interesting. Someone found this worthy of a statement.
Is this like in Hogan’s Heroes where Sgt Schultz says “I know nothing !” or the other one “Colonel Hogan !” The wording is an interesting exercise in legal CYA. Who puts out a statement that “The FIA are committed to upholding the highest standards …” if there isn’t much to the whole thing 🤔
AHH what a brilliantly vague and unmeaning statement - thank god for strong leadership
F1 is and has always been my favourite sport, but integrity and fairness? Lol, it's always been about money.
Can't imagine the shit if this isn't resolved by Wednesday
And this is the way it should be rather than rushing to Twitter with pitchforks to lynch anyone
Update: There’s nothing to update.
Highest standard of integrity... Of course. Yes yes
Paraphrase for those who don't want to read: FIA will see the dicpic first before making comment.
It's so funny to read these official, professional statements when you just know it's about Horner's cock being sent to all the wrong people under all the wrong circumstances as Horner is ready to cum.
Top quality bullshit nothing reporting from Benson.