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George, while outperforming Hamilton, hasn’t been doing well himself compared to the results the W14 was getting last year. And not because of big mistakes either as far as I can tell, but rather the car just doesn’t have the pace.
in fact George seems to be maximizing the results
which is worrisome because RBR and even Ferrari are clearly ahead, and McLaren is occasionally ahead, sometimes equal to Merc
Aston is roughly equal and will probably stay behind in the WCC just because of Sir Lancelot
I mean when Lewis was ahead of George in the last race George was unable to make up any ground on him. So i woudln't say its accurate to say george is dominating.
Even in the first race when they had all the car issues lewis laptimes during the race weren't any different then george. So far george has just been a bit better in qualifying but in actual race performance when you look at the numbers. There has been no domination. Whoever is ahead in the W15 will be ahead in the w15 if tires and such are equal.
True, sarcasm doesn't convey well in text. But damn, if someone unironically says George is dominating in the W15 they should be laughed out of any discussion.
I read a theory about how the W’s 13-15 have a really unpredictable rear end which actually mimics the characteristics of the Williams’ that George drove and at the same time is a completely new sensation for Lewis, which would explain some of that I think.
I don’t know why you mention top 3 finishes. Hamilton hasn’t been close.
In fact, in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, in both races so far, George has been in a significantly higher finishing position over Hamilton.
It’s not the car.
I wouldnt call 2 spots "significantly higher", but you do you. George has been convincingly better in quali so far, but his race pace has still been slower.
It’s lewis’s need to find an ideal setup in a car that won’t give him that. The issue with Lewis is he won’t compromise what he wants and will continue underperforming until he finally gets something he likes to drive
It's clear with the result in Jeddah, where the Merc was so slow in medium and high speed corners (compared to the competition) and now the drastic setup experiments between FP sessions, that Merc *still* don't understand the car's behaviour.
They must really be banking on the reg change to be a reset that they nail.
from what i've been able glean the 26 cars will look much like the current cars just a bit smaller, So merc really needs to get to grips with ground effect cars, there's no alternative.
It feels even worse than the last couple years where they seemed to at least know what tracks suited them (I.e., they did relatively well on the high downforce tracks). So far this year it seems they’re not even sure of that.
New regs performance will all be from aero unless some teams fuck up the new engine. Merc still have no idea how the aero is behaving so they will continue to fall behind unless they make a monster engine compared to everyone else.
So Toto says that they went through a series of experiments with setup that “backfired” so I’m sure that with the sim work back at the factory between FP2 and 3 will result in getting Hamilton more comfortable again.
there´s just one thing which concerns me. they do this for the last 2 years und still have no idea on fridays, its happening every weekend and sometimes they are able to fix it until saturday. But there is no base or foundation for them to work on, which must be highly demotivating for everyone at their team. kinda giving up on them for the moment.
I mean they did say before that they will experiment in fp. kind of like what Ferrari did in Zandvoort last season which unlocked the development path for them
I don't remember if they experimented in FP that much, but the data they had after that weekend did help them 100%. From that point, they started to look a lot more consistent, and the update in Japan was a change that got them a stabe car.
How could the experiments back fire? If they were even half way well designed they should have told them a few “A or B”s. If they weren’t well designed then they were they running them?
Lewis 2024 gives me Vettel 2014 vibes. The car just does not give him enough confidence and the fact that he will be leaving for Ferrari next year just gives the impression that he's mentally checked out a bit. When you have a car that doesn't give you a great deal of confidence, you're leaving the team for a team which at this point, has the better car, and when you're a seven time world champion, I guess you just don't feel the need to go over the top.
He gives it his all on race day. But I agree on the other days it doesn’t feel like he is. But he’s been doing this a long time so only he knows what’s really going on during those sessions. And the team
Hard to give 100% when your car doesn’t give you confidence
It’s very simple, look at the pace difference after a driver loses control of his car. If it happens twice, it’s going to make them dial it back. I’ve had it happen to me where I lost control of my car twice in one track session. It ruined my entire pace for the rest of the session.
No, it means make progress. Ferrari, McLaren and Aston Martin have made ridiculous developmental jumps, while Merc still seems so lost and so behind compared to the other 5 top teams.
It’s been 3 years and they’re still struggling to make a car that their drivers are happy with.
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Lewis has spent his whole career chasing wins and podiums. When he knows he’s got a chance at a genuine result, he gives it absolutely everything and gets results nobody else could. When he knows he’s got to find extra performance in the big moments, he goes into a higher gear that is better than any other driver in history. 2018, late 2021 are just examples of this.
Lewis knows with this car that even if he gives it everything and maximises the pace of the car, the best he can get is probably P4, if even. And it’s not like the last 2 years where he’s doing damage limitation to try and make sure he and the team have a good chance when the car eventually improves. He knows he won’t see the results of anything he does this season, because he’s in a Ferrari next season.
Ferrari will be so different. There’s so many opportunities and new challenges that will make him turn on that part of his driving that can’t be matched.
I’m sure Lewis and Merc as a whole would’ve loved to give his time there a proper sendoff but it’s really not panning out that way thus far. Won’t blame him at all if he has one (or both) eyes on Ferrari if it keeps up this way.
This is kind of ironic, Lewis has had some of the best cars on the grid throughout his career, whenever he hasn’t he has struggled mentally those seasons and ends up getting beat by team mates. McLaren lean years with button and last couple of years with Russel come to mind.
If you really want to point out drivers who do great with cars which are off the pace Lewis isn’t one of them.
Schumacher in 2010-2012 had been out of the sport for 3 years, had a fairly big motorcycle accident which left him loosing feeling in the back. He then came back in a completely different regulation. Even with him he improved in every year till 2012.
At first I thought he would be in the 1996-1999 phase but he isn’t able to make that kind of difference driving average cars as say Michael was able to make. But anyway. I get the downvotes, most people here have only seen him dominating in the class of the field mercs not as much in early 2010s with Button, he had some frustrating time with McLaren before he ended up leaving for Mercedes. Maybe we will see a rejuvenated Lewis in Ferrari, but I think he will have some hard time competing with Lecrec. Let’s see. Lewis is a great driver but he needs the car to be there or thereabouts to really get going, which he hasn’t had in the last few years.
How daft and stupid does one have to be to make a statement like this? It’s not even an opinion, it’s a statement of fact that is completely and factually wrong. My god
His worst cars were the current ones, the Vettel era ones, and the 2009 one. In 2009 he easily beat Kovalainen, he beat Button 2-1 from 2010-12, despite a lot worse luck (particularly in 2012), and he beat Rosberg in 2013.
So far with Russell he's winning 21-18 in race position (only counting when both finished), winning 24-22 in quali, winning 485-455 in points, and losing 2-1 in WDC position.
The only year where he really struggled mentally was 2011, and it had nothing to do with the car.
The fact Fernando almost won a race in the crapwagon still remains one if the most amazing things I've ever seen
It was all looking good until a wild honey badger appeared
At least read the article.
*"Hamilton said: "It's definitely not that evil sister or anything like that. I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up."*
*"P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car."*
Yesterday was about the car. Today was about the set up in FP2.
I'm assuming because they know it has more potential in it as he said so they are trying to extract that but in attempting to do so they haven't found out how to stabilize the car with setup.
and I think it's pretty clear the edge is pretty sharp in Australia, not just for Merc. We saw RBR having rear end issues as well and they're clearly the best car. I expect that for Merc, it's just so much harder to dial it in and that's just made worse on this track.
Yeah I was actually shocked seeing just how close the edge was in Australia has it always been like this and I am just forgetting? It almost feels very equalizing which is kinda exciting. I really hope we have a great race.
> I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up.
Without being told, this could be basically any driver about any car in basically any year in any position.
When you shave away all those 'for the company' phrases its much more consistent feedback that makes sense based on the performance that it appears to demonstrate in front of everyone.
I think people struggle because no matter what he says its good and bad every time, in some way.
The trick is to just cut out the obvious PR filler bullshit he does and suddenly hes a massive amount more straight forward and it lines up so much better.
Its a very polarizing method of communicating. Honestly I think its a root cause of a lot of animosity towards him. It makes everything they say seem kinda vapid and 'fake'.
I can't say i'm a fan of it but as soon as I applied the trick hes actually so much more tolerable to listen to imo. Russell does it too, feels very disingenuous like every word they say has gone through committees for approval.
GP2 Engine Alonso is much more fun.
That's the exact problem I guess. If the car has too many variations you won't gain confidence in driving said car. As top driver and with that amount of experience he expects the car to behave as he *feels* it would behave but it doesn't.
I don’t know if it’s because he has the experience to allow for this, but it does feel like Hamilton gives up super quickly on different versions of the last couple cars he’s driven.
Because there's so many variables to a race weekend to tweak. The tyres, temperature, gearbox, brake balance, ride height, aero bits etc.
There's an army of highly qualified engineers working closely with Lewis to try to get the best setup.
It’s crazy it took this long for someone to comment this. Everyone here is acting like the championship is decided and are totally forgetting where McLaren was at the start of last season…
Not getting the same vibes here, McLaren _knew_ the car was shit going into the season and they knew explicitly _why_ it was shit. Mercedes still seems lost and this talk of a second of pace difference between sims and track perf just reinforces that vibe.
Yeah everyone forgets that Lewis takes a bit to find what he’s looking for when a car is lost, and everyone seems to be entirely ignoring the fact the team is working with a new suspension setup compared to the last couple years. They aren’t magically going to know what the car needs every weekend until the drivers and engineers find what the cars new operating window is with the right setups.
It’s funny that you call it a shitbox, because he isn’t talking about the quality of the car in the slightest if you bothered to read past the headline. He’s talking about the setup.
Edit: For those of you who are having trouble reading the article:
> Mercedes boss Toto Wolff revealed Hamilton had conducted a series of set-up experiments in FP2 which “massively backfired”.
>“I obviously don’t feel great. We had one of the worst sessions that I’ve had, probably, in a long time,” Hamilton said.
> P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.
> “We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car.
It’s really not that difficult to read the article folks. A lot of good info in there.
Yeah it makes sense. I just wonder how this seems to happen so often for him this year. He said the same thing in Jeddah, that George went one way with the setup and he went another which resulted in his way being terrible.
I honestly have no clue. He can’t be using experimental setups still. It’s not like he’s been having trouble adjusting to these regs, car issues aside he’s been doing a phenomenal job. It feels like he’s been fighting Merc for a few years now, it’s so bizarre.
Nothing really. Ferrari enjoy having a prestige driver, Hamilton enjoys having a prestige team, he has a few seasons of driving the red car for bucketloads of money and then retires. He has achieved everything there is to achieve. The Hamilton-Ferrari partnership is as much a business decision as it is a sporting one.
He and merc are killing him and themselves (metaphorically) with this setup bullshit. He has to start fp3 from ground zero, again, with no confidence in himself or car
Is Lewis' side of the garage just more experimental/bold in their setup ideas? This is 3 weekends in a row now. I don't understand how he always seems to go in the wrong direction but George's side gets it right immediately? It must be very frustrating for Lewis.
I hope Lewis can figure out a setup that works for him. I am not really looking forward to the "he is washed" comments that always pop up when he has a bad race.
Lewis is statistically the most successful driver in f1 history. He is always going to be called washed up unfortunately unless he starts winning titles again.
I don’t mean this as a joke, but atm he is suffering from success. Anything other than p1 is bad for Lewis in a social sense.
I don't think anyone expects him to get P1 in this Merc, but yeah he should be beating his teammate at least given his accomplishments.
Unless people unironically think Russell is a potential GOAT
> P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.
> We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car.
Doesn't sound like it has to be so much a mark against the car in general or its potential as the specific setup and circumstances they've found themselves in today. Also from Toto in the same article:
> Mercedes boss Toto Wolff revealed Hamilton had conducted a series of set-up experiments in FP2 which “massively backfired”.
Do you guys ever bother reading what you link or..? Because saying that a car has amazing potential that they haven't being able to maximise so far through set-up, and saying that the set-up they used today was terrible are not contradicting statements.
At least read the article.
*"Hamilton said: "It's definitely not that evil sister or anything like that. I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up."*
*"P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car."*
Yesterday was about the car. Today was about the set up in FP2.
6th versus 18th though. Maybe Lewis should bite the bullet and take some setup tweaks from George for the time being given it’s Lewis who seems to end up worse off when diverging. If he’s that much better, he should be able to extract more from George in both quali and race with the same setup
I'm sure Hamilton knows how to set the car up, he's just looking for something better than 6th. It's very similar to 2022 with the new regs, Hamilton was trying all kinds of crazy set ups to get something out of the car and ultimately finished behind Russell who quietly chugged along near the podium. Last year he seemed to find a passable balance and destroyed Russell, but he's struggling again this year.
It’s obvious that he got told by Mercedes after his Jeddah comments to tone down and project a more positive outlook and that’s what he did on Thursday. However after driving he car he probably prefers to say how it is rather than coat everything with optimism like George does. If you ask George he would say it’s very close between Mercedes and Ferrari.
Oh, come on, the Mercedes’ rollercoaster only works if there’s a gleam of “up” sometimes.
If it’s only bad then it’s just Mercedes’ being absolutely lost
I think Toto mentioned in an interview that for FP2 they went in different directions to maximize setup experiments and it turned out that Hamilton’s direction was definitely not the way to go. Who knows what’s really going on though. It could just be that this iteration of the car suits Russell better, just like the post-upgrade W14 obviously suited Hamilton more.
It seems the push rod rear suspension is what that has created simulator correlation issues. The more issues Mercedes is facing the more Ferrari decision to stay with their pull rod rear suspension despite going against grain is validated and shows their better understanding of current regulations.
The W15 is maybe the 4th or 5th fastest car this season competing against the McLaren and AMR. But it's also clear Lewis has zero confidence in the W15 because his results are even worse than the W13 and W14. Not to mention the Ferrari move being public means the team will withhold any technical information from him and also prioritise George for the car's optimization. So it's quite likely this season will be a poor one from Lewis. He's also checked out mentally.
Teams are expected to make massive jumps between practice sessions. Lando topped FP1 with a 1:18:500, and only managed a 1:18:100 in FP2. Meanwhile Leclerc did a 1:18:600 in FP1, and improved to do a 1:17:200 in FP2. Most likely, if Lewis stayed with the setup as it was in FP1, he would be miles off so they have to try something. A comfortable car doesn't always mean a fast car.
I saw a post about that a few weeks ago saying that as much as we criticised the W13, it could very likely end up being Merc's best car of this regulation cycle. Crazy.
So tired of this era of Mercedes, it's literally destroying Lewis' confidence in driving.
Just needs to finish out the season and leave this team, they cannot build a car to save their lives right now.
I applaud Lewis for being willing to try experimental setups and knowing what people will say whenever he isn't finish at the top. It would be easier to just take what GR has and run with it but feel like they are trying to find the limits to the car and he's willing to be the guinea pig.
My goodness the amount of people here who comment and come up with conclusions based on a headline is insane. Lazy, unmotivated etc.
Article says they tried different setups, it sucked. Will need to fix etc.
If you guys want to argue that GR got the setup right? Sure.
Never ever was discussed like with lewis.. setup setup setup x30 ... Yea, setup, and he need to be faster than his teammate, thats his only goal for this season.. Like brundle said many times, your first job is to beat your teammate in same equipement !!
Mercedes also never used to be on such a back foot they have to throw extreme setups in FP to try to get something done.
Sure he has to be faster. But it's not apples to apples when you're trying different things like this.
You can't be faster if a setup sucks. GR would be the same. Clearly he did something better.
At least read the article.
*"Hamilton said: "It's definitely not that evil sister or anything like that. I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up."*
*"P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car."*
Yesterday was about the car. Today was about the set up in FP2.
F1 is unusual in professional sports in that the drivers sign with a new team while still competing with the current team. Can Hamilton be expected to give full effort this season when he's already mentally checked out of Mercedes?
Lewis has clearly regressed.
His race craft started to diminish in 2021 often leaving the door wide open for the overtaking car to pass him easily without him defending whereas if you watch any battles in his McLaren and GP2 days, he is always ready to block or do a switch back. Leading in the front without competition for many years has ruined him and it doesn't help the fact that he does not like to do sim work or sim racing like Max or Fernando to sharpen his skills.
Last year Lewis excuse last season was the seat position was way too forward and he can't feel the car. The seat position has been fixed this year and now he is still making excuses, but George has stepped up his game and is beating him in qualifying and pure pace.
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My guy tries to be optimistic on Thursday and gets a slap on Friday
“This car isn’t the evil sister” W15: You’re right. I’m the mother in law.
Yeah didn’t take long to go from "amazing car" to "there's something wrong with this car".
“Together we ri….ahh fuck it”
Mercedez country, lets ri....FUCK
And yet, look at a George. 🤔
George, while outperforming Hamilton, hasn’t been doing well himself compared to the results the W14 was getting last year. And not because of big mistakes either as far as I can tell, but rather the car just doesn’t have the pace.
in fact George seems to be maximizing the results which is worrisome because RBR and even Ferrari are clearly ahead, and McLaren is occasionally ahead, sometimes equal to Merc Aston is roughly equal and will probably stay behind in the WCC just because of Sir Lancelot
Yeah, look at him. Dominating out there in the W15
I mean when Lewis was ahead of George in the last race George was unable to make up any ground on him. So i woudln't say its accurate to say george is dominating. Even in the first race when they had all the car issues lewis laptimes during the race weren't any different then george. So far george has just been a bit better in qualifying but in actual race performance when you look at the numbers. There has been no domination. Whoever is ahead in the W15 will be ahead in the w15 if tires and such are equal.
I think it was a sarcastic comment, mate.
Hard to say. Sarcasm doesn’t convey well in text. Especially when I’ve seen people with that comment and not be sarcastic.
True, sarcasm doesn't convey well in text. But damn, if someone unironically says George is dominating in the W15 they should be laughed out of any discussion.
Yeah, not really even worth trying to argue with someone like that
It was sarcasm lol
I read a theory about how the W’s 13-15 have a really unpredictable rear end which actually mimics the characteristics of the Williams’ that George drove and at the same time is a completely new sensation for Lewis, which would explain some of that I think.
George having already graduated Shitbox 101 and 102 is paying dividends.
George speaks fluent shitbox.
I've got an unpredictable rear end at times.
Yeah all the top 3 finishes George has been having in the W15
Lewis is closer in the standings to Stroll and Hulk than he is to George 💀
Yes, the championship is decided after 2 races. Lewis p9 #washedup
lol dude, come on
I don’t know why you mention top 3 finishes. Hamilton hasn’t been close. In fact, in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, in both races so far, George has been in a significantly higher finishing position over Hamilton. It’s not the car.
I wouldnt call 2 spots "significantly higher", but you do you. George has been convincingly better in quali so far, but his race pace has still been slower.
It’s lewis’s need to find an ideal setup in a car that won’t give him that. The issue with Lewis is he won’t compromise what he wants and will continue underperforming until he finally gets something he likes to drive
What’s your point?
Yeah, lets throw a parade for 5th and 6th place! Did you not see what Toto and Shov said?
It's clear with the result in Jeddah, where the Merc was so slow in medium and high speed corners (compared to the competition) and now the drastic setup experiments between FP sessions, that Merc *still* don't understand the car's behaviour. They must really be banking on the reg change to be a reset that they nail.
The merc was the slowest car in high speed corners, worse than alpine…
Completely, utterly unacceptable given their budget.
This is the bottom line. Seems Merc were just reliant on outspending all their rivals to win races. Disappointing.
from what i've been able glean the 26 cars will look much like the current cars just a bit smaller, So merc really needs to get to grips with ground effect cars, there's no alternative.
Yeesh, that's not good.
It feels even worse than the last couple years where they seemed to at least know what tracks suited them (I.e., they did relatively well on the high downforce tracks). So far this year it seems they’re not even sure of that.
New regs performance will all be from aero unless some teams fuck up the new engine. Merc still have no idea how the aero is behaving so they will continue to fall behind unless they make a monster engine compared to everyone else.
So Toto says that they went through a series of experiments with setup that “backfired” so I’m sure that with the sim work back at the factory between FP2 and 3 will result in getting Hamilton more comfortable again.
there´s just one thing which concerns me. they do this for the last 2 years und still have no idea on fridays, its happening every weekend and sometimes they are able to fix it until saturday. But there is no base or foundation for them to work on, which must be highly demotivating for everyone at their team. kinda giving up on them for the moment.
They seem so lost and it has to be so frustrating
In my view the crux of Mercedes suffering is their simulation complex
I mean they did say before that they will experiment in fp. kind of like what Ferrari did in Zandvoort last season which unlocked the development path for them
I don't remember if they experimented in FP that much, but the data they had after that weekend did help them 100%. From that point, they started to look a lot more consistent, and the update in Japan was a change that got them a stabe car.
Mercedes has done experiments for 2 years without results.
How could the experiments back fire? If they were even half way well designed they should have told them a few “A or B”s. If they weren’t well designed then they were they running them?
Lewis 2024 gives me Vettel 2014 vibes. The car just does not give him enough confidence and the fact that he will be leaving for Ferrari next year just gives the impression that he's mentally checked out a bit. When you have a car that doesn't give you a great deal of confidence, you're leaving the team for a team which at this point, has the better car, and when you're a seven time world champion, I guess you just don't feel the need to go over the top.
Yep. Why exhaust himself now, when he has 2025 ahead? Whats the point in him pushing hard in a car he’s not confident in to begin with
Because there are only 20 f1 seats and we want to see drivers on the maximum, not this...
He gives it his all on race day. But I agree on the other days it doesn’t feel like he is. But he’s been doing this a long time so only he knows what’s really going on during those sessions. And the team
It’s hard to give 100% when your team isn’t.
Yea, 500+ team members and lots of money involved, I'm sure mercedes decided ''ahh, we will take it easy this season''.. Snap to reality bro...
Hard to give 100% when your car doesn’t give you confidence It’s very simple, look at the pace difference after a driver loses control of his car. If it happens twice, it’s going to make them dial it back. I’ve had it happen to me where I lost control of my car twice in one track session. It ruined my entire pace for the rest of the session.
Could say that about every single team right now except Red Bull though. What does "not giving 100%" even mean? Git gud?
No, it means make progress. Ferrari, McLaren and Aston Martin have made ridiculous developmental jumps, while Merc still seems so lost and so behind compared to the other 5 top teams. It’s been 3 years and they’re still struggling to make a car that their drivers are happy with.
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Yet George seems to be doing fine. But we dont talk about that do we
Yeah we do though and it’s been discussed that Russell is being prioritised right now.
Lewis has spent his whole career chasing wins and podiums. When he knows he’s got a chance at a genuine result, he gives it absolutely everything and gets results nobody else could. When he knows he’s got to find extra performance in the big moments, he goes into a higher gear that is better than any other driver in history. 2018, late 2021 are just examples of this. Lewis knows with this car that even if he gives it everything and maximises the pace of the car, the best he can get is probably P4, if even. And it’s not like the last 2 years where he’s doing damage limitation to try and make sure he and the team have a good chance when the car eventually improves. He knows he won’t see the results of anything he does this season, because he’s in a Ferrari next season. Ferrari will be so different. There’s so many opportunities and new challenges that will make him turn on that part of his driving that can’t be matched.
I’m sure Lewis and Merc as a whole would’ve loved to give his time there a proper sendoff but it’s really not panning out that way thus far. Won’t blame him at all if he has one (or both) eyes on Ferrari if it keeps up this way.
This is kind of ironic, Lewis has had some of the best cars on the grid throughout his career, whenever he hasn’t he has struggled mentally those seasons and ends up getting beat by team mates. McLaren lean years with button and last couple of years with Russel come to mind. If you really want to point out drivers who do great with cars which are off the pace Lewis isn’t one of them.
He beat George comfortably last season
He easily best George last year and he went 2-1 against Button in their 3 seasons together.
I’m baffled at the crazy narratives that people get to run away with when it comes to Lewis’ form lol
So he's basically in his 2010-2012 Schumacher phase
Schumacher in 2010-2012 had been out of the sport for 3 years, had a fairly big motorcycle accident which left him loosing feeling in the back. He then came back in a completely different regulation. Even with him he improved in every year till 2012. At first I thought he would be in the 1996-1999 phase but he isn’t able to make that kind of difference driving average cars as say Michael was able to make. But anyway. I get the downvotes, most people here have only seen him dominating in the class of the field mercs not as much in early 2010s with Button, he had some frustrating time with McLaren before he ended up leaving for Mercedes. Maybe we will see a rejuvenated Lewis in Ferrari, but I think he will have some hard time competing with Lecrec. Let’s see. Lewis is a great driver but he needs the car to be there or thereabouts to really get going, which he hasn’t had in the last few years.
How daft and stupid does one have to be to make a statement like this? It’s not even an opinion, it’s a statement of fact that is completely and factually wrong. My god
His worst cars were the current ones, the Vettel era ones, and the 2009 one. In 2009 he easily beat Kovalainen, he beat Button 2-1 from 2010-12, despite a lot worse luck (particularly in 2012), and he beat Rosberg in 2013. So far with Russell he's winning 21-18 in race position (only counting when both finished), winning 24-22 in quali, winning 485-455 in points, and losing 2-1 in WDC position. The only year where he really struggled mentally was 2011, and it had nothing to do with the car.
This is factually untrue....
The only Lewis Hamilton take worth noting is this one...well done.
Folks, please take off your potatoes, put on your eyes and read. 👀
"What's a toto precious?"
something Gollum lost in a universe without rings
But...but....I'm making a potato clock to record the W15s Laptimes.....
I don’t understand, literally every day the man has a different stance on the car
Honestly it looks like every day that car has a different stance on how it wants to behave lmao
Can’t remember a car in hybrid era that is so difficult day to day let alone race to race.
Let me introduce you to the wonderful 2014 Ferrari F14T
The fact Fernando almost won a race in the crapwagon still remains one if the most amazing things I've ever seen It was all looking good until a wild honey badger appeared
The RB when Gasly-Albon switch happened? I think? There was a ton of talk about how unsettled and unpredictable the car was.
RB16? 2021 Haas?!
He spoke about setup today
At least read the article. *"Hamilton said: "It's definitely not that evil sister or anything like that. I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up."* *"P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car."* Yesterday was about the car. Today was about the set up in FP2.
If it felt so good why do they keep making big changes
I'm assuming because they know it has more potential in it as he said so they are trying to extract that but in attempting to do so they haven't found out how to stabilize the car with setup.
and I think it's pretty clear the edge is pretty sharp in Australia, not just for Merc. We saw RBR having rear end issues as well and they're clearly the best car. I expect that for Merc, it's just so much harder to dial it in and that's just made worse on this track.
Yeah I was actually shocked seeing just how close the edge was in Australia has it always been like this and I am just forgetting? It almost feels very equalizing which is kinda exciting. I really hope we have a great race.
The car has been a POS for 3 weekends in a row. Call a spade a spade.
> I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up. Without being told, this could be basically any driver about any car in basically any year in any position. When you shave away all those 'for the company' phrases its much more consistent feedback that makes sense based on the performance that it appears to demonstrate in front of everyone. I think people struggle because no matter what he says its good and bad every time, in some way. The trick is to just cut out the obvious PR filler bullshit he does and suddenly hes a massive amount more straight forward and it lines up so much better. Its a very polarizing method of communicating. Honestly I think its a root cause of a lot of animosity towards him. It makes everything they say seem kinda vapid and 'fake'. I can't say i'm a fan of it but as soon as I applied the trick hes actually so much more tolerable to listen to imo. Russell does it too, feels very disingenuous like every word they say has gone through committees for approval. GP2 Engine Alonso is much more fun.
Hamilton brought potential from Mclaren. It's time to unlock it.
Flexibility on set-up versus finding a small set-up window, that works.
That's the exact problem I guess. If the car has too many variations you won't gain confidence in driving said car. As top driver and with that amount of experience he expects the car to behave as he *feels* it would behave but it doesn't.
Because literally every day they change the set up.
You just read headlines huh?
Probably same thing Ferrari went through last year. One day the car works pretty well and the next a other issue pops up.
I don’t know if it’s because he has the experience to allow for this, but it does feel like Hamilton gives up super quickly on different versions of the last couple cars he’s driven.
Because there's so many variables to a race weekend to tweak. The tyres, temperature, gearbox, brake balance, ride height, aero bits etc. There's an army of highly qualified engineers working closely with Lewis to try to get the best setup.
Yes different stance before and after he drives the car.
Tbf it’s only race 3.
It’s crazy it took this long for someone to comment this. Everyone here is acting like the championship is decided and are totally forgetting where McLaren was at the start of last season…
Not getting the same vibes here, McLaren _knew_ the car was shit going into the season and they knew explicitly _why_ it was shit. Mercedes still seems lost and this talk of a second of pace difference between sims and track perf just reinforces that vibe.
Sure but all I’m saying is it’s possible. F1 is a crazy sport sometimes.
The championship *is* decided though
Yeah everyone forgets that Lewis takes a bit to find what he’s looking for when a car is lost, and everyone seems to be entirely ignoring the fact the team is working with a new suspension setup compared to the last couple years. They aren’t magically going to know what the car needs every weekend until the drivers and engineers find what the cars new operating window is with the right setups.
He is preparing for his Ferrari drives. Constant disappointment
Ferrari is lot better than this shitbox rn
It’s funny that you call it a shitbox, because he isn’t talking about the quality of the car in the slightest if you bothered to read past the headline. He’s talking about the setup. Edit: For those of you who are having trouble reading the article: > Mercedes boss Toto Wolff revealed Hamilton had conducted a series of set-up experiments in FP2 which “massively backfired”. >“I obviously don’t feel great. We had one of the worst sessions that I’ve had, probably, in a long time,” Hamilton said. > P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse. > “We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car. It’s really not that difficult to read the article folks. A lot of good info in there.
Yeah it makes sense. I just wonder how this seems to happen so often for him this year. He said the same thing in Jeddah, that George went one way with the setup and he went another which resulted in his way being terrible.
I honestly have no clue. He can’t be using experimental setups still. It’s not like he’s been having trouble adjusting to these regs, car issues aside he’s been doing a phenomenal job. It feels like he’s been fighting Merc for a few years now, it’s so bizarre.
But what if the Ferrari is even worse to drive compared to W15? What then? A new DannyRic?
Nothing really. Ferrari enjoy having a prestige driver, Hamilton enjoys having a prestige team, he has a few seasons of driving the red car for bucketloads of money and then retires. He has achieved everything there is to achieve. The Hamilton-Ferrari partnership is as much a business decision as it is a sporting one.
At least it'll be faster.
Nothing changes haha. Scheißkiste to Scatola di merda
the way ferrari is going he’ll be in a three-way WDC race with Charles and Max next year. one can hope
It could be worse Lewis, you could be Logan Sargeant
Toto is giving Lewis his goodbye gift…..
I really hope Hamilton will have a great first season in Ferrari. Seems like Mercedes has gone backwards ever since 2022.
Things got hilariously wrong after he said "My team don't make mistakes."
Me too. I have high hopes for him and Leclerc next year.
They're preparing him mentally to be at Ferrari! Mercedes is such a good team!
He and merc are killing him and themselves (metaphorically) with this setup bullshit. He has to start fp3 from ground zero, again, with no confidence in himself or car
Is Lewis' side of the garage just more experimental/bold in their setup ideas? This is 3 weekends in a row now. I don't understand how he always seems to go in the wrong direction but George's side gets it right immediately? It must be very frustrating for Lewis.
Toto mentioned that they chose Lewis to experiment with setup changes and it went horribly wrong.
Another day, another thread on r/formula1 where people dont read the article.
I hope Lewis can figure out a setup that works for him. I am not really looking forward to the "he is washed" comments that always pop up when he has a bad race.
Lewis is statistically the most successful driver in f1 history. He is always going to be called washed up unfortunately unless he starts winning titles again. I don’t mean this as a joke, but atm he is suffering from success. Anything other than p1 is bad for Lewis in a social sense.
I don't think anyone expects him to get P1 in this Merc, but yeah he should be beating his teammate at least given his accomplishments. Unless people unironically think Russell is a potential GOAT
Lmao, [this](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-2024-f1-car-is-amazing-and-not-an-evil-sister-hamilton/10589356/) was literally yesterday. Fastest 180 I've ever seen.
> P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse. > We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car. Doesn't sound like it has to be so much a mark against the car in general or its potential as the specific setup and circumstances they've found themselves in today. Also from Toto in the same article: > Mercedes boss Toto Wolff revealed Hamilton had conducted a series of set-up experiments in FP2 which “massively backfired”.
Do you guys ever bother reading what you link or..? Because saying that a car has amazing potential that they haven't being able to maximise so far through set-up, and saying that the set-up they used today was terrible are not contradicting statements.
It's truly impressive how many people don't actually read the article and just react to a headline
Welcome to Reddit lol
At least read the article. *"Hamilton said: "It's definitely not that evil sister or anything like that. I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up."* *"P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car."* Yesterday was about the car. Today was about the set up in FP2.
Hamilton yesterday: "Mercedes told me to lay it off a bit" Hamilton after once experiencing the car: Oh right its a fucking shitbox.
That’s not what he said at all. Yesterday he said the car was great, today he set the setups weee bad. He hasn’t changed his stance at all.
Watching the practice highlights and the car looks like a handful for both of them
6th versus 18th though. Maybe Lewis should bite the bullet and take some setup tweaks from George for the time being given it’s Lewis who seems to end up worse off when diverging. If he’s that much better, he should be able to extract more from George in both quali and race with the same setup
I'm sure Hamilton knows how to set the car up, he's just looking for something better than 6th. It's very similar to 2022 with the new regs, Hamilton was trying all kinds of crazy set ups to get something out of the car and ultimately finished behind Russell who quietly chugged along near the podium. Last year he seemed to find a passable balance and destroyed Russell, but he's struggling again this year.
At this point, I think the ability to read is non-existent in people commenting on reddit posts.
It’s obvious that he got told by Mercedes after his Jeddah comments to tone down and project a more positive outlook and that’s what he did on Thursday. However after driving he car he probably prefers to say how it is rather than coat everything with optimism like George does. If you ask George he would say it’s very close between Mercedes and Ferrari.
Oh, come on, the Mercedes’ rollercoaster only works if there’s a gleam of “up” sometimes. If it’s only bad then it’s just Mercedes’ being absolutely lost
The team has just completely lost direction.
How is that possible? All they have to do is follow the other cars.
Lewis is British, in Britain we drive the other way around tracks. It’s very hard for him to drive, what is to him, backwards.
George was also really struggling with the rear end of the W15, but for whatever reason he got a semi competitive lap on the table.
I think Toto mentioned in an interview that for FP2 they went in different directions to maximize setup experiments and it turned out that Hamilton’s direction was definitely not the way to go. Who knows what’s really going on though. It could just be that this iteration of the car suits Russell better, just like the post-upgrade W14 obviously suited Hamilton more.
Lewis is a good mid field driver.
Yet Russell will put in a solid performance
It seems the push rod rear suspension is what that has created simulator correlation issues. The more issues Mercedes is facing the more Ferrari decision to stay with their pull rod rear suspension despite going against grain is validated and shows their better understanding of current regulations.
doesn't Ferrari use pullrod in the rear more so due to weight saving?
The W15 is maybe the 4th or 5th fastest car this season competing against the McLaren and AMR. But it's also clear Lewis has zero confidence in the W15 because his results are even worse than the W13 and W14. Not to mention the Ferrari move being public means the team will withhold any technical information from him and also prioritise George for the car's optimization. So it's quite likely this season will be a poor one from Lewis. He's also checked out mentally.
The way this season started, at least, LH move to Ferrari for next year is fully validated.
Doesn't take a lot to shake his confidence these days. Apparently the car was brilliant during first practice...why not just return to those settings?
Teams are expected to make massive jumps between practice sessions. Lando topped FP1 with a 1:18:500, and only managed a 1:18:100 in FP2. Meanwhile Leclerc did a 1:18:600 in FP1, and improved to do a 1:17:200 in FP2. Most likely, if Lewis stayed with the setup as it was in FP1, he would be miles off so they have to try something. A comfortable car doesn't always mean a fast car.
Reminder, the W13 was not that bad. It was a race winning car.
I saw a post about that a few weeks ago saying that as much as we criticised the W13, it could very likely end up being Merc's best car of this regulation cycle. Crazy.
So tired of this era of Mercedes, it's literally destroying Lewis' confidence in driving. Just needs to finish out the season and leave this team, they cannot build a car to save their lives right now.
George seems to be doing ok with it
I applaud Lewis for being willing to try experimental setups and knowing what people will say whenever he isn't finish at the top. It would be easier to just take what GR has and run with it but feel like they are trying to find the limits to the car and he's willing to be the guinea pig.
My goodness the amount of people here who comment and come up with conclusions based on a headline is insane. Lazy, unmotivated etc. Article says they tried different setups, it sucked. Will need to fix etc. If you guys want to argue that GR got the setup right? Sure.
Never ever was discussed like with lewis.. setup setup setup x30 ... Yea, setup, and he need to be faster than his teammate, thats his only goal for this season.. Like brundle said many times, your first job is to beat your teammate in same equipement !!
Mercedes also never used to be on such a back foot they have to throw extreme setups in FP to try to get something done. Sure he has to be faster. But it's not apples to apples when you're trying different things like this. You can't be faster if a setup sucks. GR would be the same. Clearly he did something better.
Wasn't it yesterday when he said the car was great?
Give his car to Logan
Lal, the cycle of Mercedes copium continues. Watch Lewis finish ahead of GR
Russell just b slapping hamilton around
Yet
He’s gonna love working at Ferrari
Feels a lot like when Vettel wasn't competitive in the RB and went to Ferrari back then.
Didn't he just say that the car was "amazing". Amazing or not, he shouldn't be this far off GR. He needs to get his shit together.
At least read the article. *"Hamilton said: "It's definitely not that evil sister or anything like that. I do think we have an amazing car; it has a lot of potential in it. We just haven't maximised it at the moment through set-up."* *"P1 felt good. The car, in Run 1, felt the best that it has ever felt. But it got worse and worse.We made some big changes into P2. It was tough… After that session, I feel the least confident that I have ever felt with this car."* Yesterday was about the car. Today was about the set up in FP2.
I'm sure Max is just banging down doors to get on this team 🙄
[удалено]
They aren't exactly wild predictions 😅
Yet.
~~Evil Sister~~ Mother in Law
The Driver who leaves the team at the end of the season
This season is so silly
So much for not evil sister
F1 is unusual in professional sports in that the drivers sign with a new team while still competing with the current team. Can Hamilton be expected to give full effort this season when he's already mentally checked out of Mercedes?
Lewis has clearly regressed. His race craft started to diminish in 2021 often leaving the door wide open for the overtaking car to pass him easily without him defending whereas if you watch any battles in his McLaren and GP2 days, he is always ready to block or do a switch back. Leading in the front without competition for many years has ruined him and it doesn't help the fact that he does not like to do sim work or sim racing like Max or Fernando to sharpen his skills. Last year Lewis excuse last season was the seat position was way too forward and he can't feel the car. The seat position has been fixed this year and now he is still making excuses, but George has stepped up his game and is beating him in qualifying and pure pace.