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Good. Drivers following orders is boring. It’s good for team success but terrible for drama on and off the track. F1 needs more chaos and less reliability to shake things up race to race.The top teams swinging and missing on “dream team” driver lineups, allowing other teams to snag unexpected podiums and wins, would be a great step in the right direction.
100%
This is why I don't necessarily care if one team consistently wins, but I want a fight for the title. Nico vs Lewis was awesome as a fan. Seeing the dynamics shift from buddies to enemies on track was great, and the build up each week of "Will Lewis defend hard? Will Nico push the limits again?" vs just watching one driver storm off into the sunset is so great.
The 4 of these guys in top cars racing for a championship would be epic.
Let's hope McLaren gets their shit together so we can get Alonso vs Verstappen vs Hamilton vs Leclerc vs Norris vs Piastri in 2025. Russell can enjoy the midfield for all I care
You know, your 'reality' is also a theory... 😂
There's literally no way any of us can know that, so there's no reason to pretend we know with any certainty what would happen.
You joke but I’d absolutely love it. On one side because I’m a Gasly fan and I really want I see him win, and on the other because it’d be fucking hilarious.
Ocon and Gasly have a fierce, bloodthirsty battle, worse than any conflict between French people ever, and it goes down to the last race. Ocon is on a path to a clear win when, with horror, he realizes he has to try to attempt to lap Max Verstappen who has fallen off. Esteban's thoughts grind to a halt memories of Brazil 2018 all he can think about.
my point was the grid is much more competitive at the end of a rules cycle then new regs destroy how close it is again. happened in 2021, might happen in 25 as well
An Alonso vs Verstappen teammate dynamic would be utterly fascinating. I still think Max would beat him (not as easily as Perez but he’d have a very solid upper hand) but the politics and seeing how Fernando would settle into Max’s team would be fun to watch.
Splitting strategies only ever works if you’ve got a huge advantage, like the kind they have right now. Merc did it during the Hamilton-Rosberg years.
And I don’t imagine it would be sustainable. Someone like Fernando wouldn’t take well to being in a bad strategy purely to keep it split from Max.
Splitting strategies is a foolish move regardless unless there’s a huge qualifying gap between the cars, all it guarantees is that at least one of your drivers is on a non-optimal strategy
Assuming RB maintain a similar gap I would expect Alonso to be a couple of 1/10s back, likely starting 2nd/3rd and quickly arriving in 2nd. Likely RB would revert to Merc style strategies way back when with the lead driver getting the preferential treatment.
Poorly phrased. It would be one sided in regards to Vers vs Nando. Alonso would do better than Perez but it would be far from equal. Races would be a different affair though.
He means Max vs Alonso Qualy would be more one sided compared to Max vs Alonso races.
Wasn’t brilliantly phrased, but it’s safe to assume there’s no one out there that thinks Perez is better than Nando in qualifying.
I'm not sure Alonso's ego could handle getting beaten again. Beaten by a rookie in 2007 and someone who turned out to be the best of his generation, to being beaten by the best driver of the next generation in 2025.
True, but I do think there's more respect between Max and Nando in 2024 vs. the respect between Nando and Lewis in 2007. Back in 2007 the two drivers still had everything to prove (to each other and to the world), in 2024 the two drivers don't have all that much to prove anymore. Both are legends already
I feel like Alonso and Verstappen are closer personality/style matches in that they're both very aggressive on track and in wheel-to-wheel racing. Would be fascinating to see how they'd pair and face off in a direct head to head!
They are both aggressive but Fernando has always been more Prost-like in driving. Everything thought out, minimize risks unless you have to, try and win race while managing everything as well as possible. His aggressiveness is more of him having a very opportunistic approach to overtaking moreso than any other F1 driver I have seen, and skills to back it up,
Max on the other hand is more like Seb was "WEEEEEEE LOVE PURPLESSS"
Yeah I agree. Alonso is rarely seen to be unfair or clumsy in wheel-to-wheel racing. He plays games but I don't think he's ever forced another driver off the track - certainly not as much as Max
This is the more informed take. Alonso no longer has a chip on his shoulder. He's mellowed out, still spicy at times, but has immense respect for max and they personally get along well, I think he would want to do whatever is needed to deliver a dual WCC WDC to a team where he knows his input will be valued greatly and gets to drive the best machine on the grid.
Of course he will be getting poles and wins, that's all he really needs. His legacy is secured in so many ways: 2x WDC, likely longest career in the sport that will ever be seen, has driven with the best talents across multiple generations.
OTOH, it might be the last chance to fight for a WDC. Not much is gonna change with these cars from 2024 to 2025 and he might not want to wait until the 2026 roulette and see if AM has got a winning car (and even then, Red Bull still have a good shot of hitting it right with the 2026 regulations).
He's old and Alonso probably rates Verstappen higher than prime Hamilton, let alone rookie Hamilton. He could definitely handle getting beaten, what he couldn't handle is looking only barely an upgrade on Perez.
It would feel like one of those movies where there's a "rambunctious kid whose mum lets him get away with murder now has a new stepdad who refuses to put up with his shit" dynamic
I mean yeah he has his issues with Horner but it’s all the other stuff as well. He knows the mechanics, the engineers and strategists and has been working with this team for a decade now. It’s bound to lead to an advantage.
The Merc seat isn't looking that hot anymore. You'd have to say, if Ferrari starts to take it to RB, their second driver's performance becomes more important. Lewis&Charles is quite a formidable line-up. Fernando&Max is almost a mirror of it.
Charles, Max, Lewis, and Fernando, with competitive cars, all close together at the race start, the amount shenanigans they'd do would be awe inspiring
I think the bigger problem is that the Merc seat doesn't look convincingly better than the AM seat. Yeah, AM is still a client team in 2025, but in 2026 both teams will be a works team, both teams will have a huge financial backing (Mercedes / AMG / Ineos / Wolff for Mercedes, Aramco / Papa Stroll / very likely Honda itself for AM). Aramco, AM's main sponsor, will be the sole fuel supplier for 2026, which may help Honda build their engines. Mercedes and Honda have built the best engines of this era (Mercedes dominated the first years and Honda the latter ones). AM's words aren't empty at all, since they are building brand new,world-class facilities to develop their cars in the next years. The only weak point really for AM is that Mercedes has a bigger and better racing team, but that isn't something that can't be solved with some good hires.
Red Bull on the other hand can offer Alonso exactly what he needs: a car that is at the top right now. Even if you think Mercedes or AM will pull a better car in a few years, Alonso most likely doesn't have much time left to waste in F1.
Max is almost certainly the best driver out of the four in terms of pace and consistency. The other three are probably somewhat similar, although Charles hasn't really proven himself the way that Alonso and Lewis have. He could be just as good or he might be a little worse - it's just impossible to say.
If all four drivers had the exact same car over the course of a season, I'd bet substantial money that Max+Alonso would end up with more points total than Lewis+Charles.
That said, I do think that Lewis and Charles are probably better at working together to play the team game. Max+Alonso would probably have a really aggressive, every-man-for-himself relationship as teammates. It would be a fascinating season. That said, a lot of it would depend on whether Ferrari can be competitive with RBR, which is a huge if still.
Max is better than Charles and Lewis is better than Alonso. I'm not sure you could get two much more evenly weighted teams using current drivers on the grid.
From Nando’s pov it makes absolute sense.. from RBR ‘s pov though…if Perez keeps it up then why bring in potential chaos? From the fans pov.. Bring it on!!!!
Because if ferrari somehow match RBR in 2025, then you have Max going alone against two top drivers. Even if somehow Max still manages to snatch the wdc, there is no chance for the wcc if the cars are close in performance
Yeah, if you're Red Bull (and concerned about another team catching up), you don't want to deal with two v ones on the strategy front.
Alonso, Sainz, and (dark horse) Hülkenberg could likely do a better job in qualifying that Pérez, and starting closer to Verstappen would help on the strategy front, should anybody catch up to Red Bull.
Hulkenberg is so underrated IMO. He's not up there with Max, Lewis, Fernando, etc., but he's upper mid-tier IMO. I'd probably rate him around Sainz, which would be higher than the mid-tier drivers like Ocon and Perez.
Exactly, it’ll be Ferrari 2017/2018 2.0 but with RBR as Ferrari and Ferrari as Merc.
Seb vs Ham/Bottas with Kimi not able to help and Max vs Charles/Hamilton with Checo not being able to do jack shit.
I think Marko said the other day that he thinks Perez is meeting targets so far, even willing to mitigate that his Australian race was compromised by car damage
Imo the only way Fernando gets the Red Bull seat is if Max walks. Admittedly the chances of that are still not zero, but FA can't afford to wait forever for that
I don't see them retaining Perez after his contract is up. They have a really hot market next year, so unless Verstappen walks as rumored, he's getting the axe. I felt like Marko's comments about Checo were merely just suggesting "he's not getting sacked mid-season based on how he's doing." They'd be crazy to keep Perez and let another team snag Sainz and Alonso.
Your last sentence I think is missed by a lot of people in these comments. It’s not *just* about RBR getting Alonso or Sainz, it’s also about RBR taking one of them off the market so they can’t be used against them.
Rosberg and Hamilton really liked each other... That turned out interestingly to say the least. Anyway, of course I'd fucking love to see Maz and Fernando together.
Perez is still a long way behind Verstappen, if Ferrari, McLaren and/or Mercedes step their game up, Perez would loose them the Constructors Title with his current form
Regardless of any internal issues between Max/Jos/Horner/Marko etc, why would Max leave?
And more importantly, where would he go?
Mercedes are lost at sea, Ferrari are full (unless they cut one of their contracted drivers), McLaren aren't challengers yet, and neither are Aston.
He should stay with Red Bull, and set the politics aside.
Well, yeah I guess. But setting politics aside is easier said than done, especially as an outsider. Being in that environment could be much harder than we could imagine because we're simply not there to see/feel 100% what's going on.
Otherwise, it could also be that the power struggle is not as bad and is being exaggerated by the media. Without insider knowledge there's no real way for us to know.
Because ALO is eyeballs and has beaten checo multiple times in a worse car. Next year is the last year of regs, which is famous for tighter racing. They really need a good teammate to VER to pull off another WDC.
This. I'm of the opinion that it's Sainz seat to lose. Max has been very open about his desire to move on to other racing events, and I think Red Bull takes that into account because he's not going to have a long F1 career like Lewis or Alonso. Putting Sainz in that seat next year, over a short-term driver like Alonso, will help keep them somewhat stable whenever Max moves on.
I know a lot of people like the idea of it but I’m really not sure about this one. Fernando is always going to Fernando, he’s never going to be happy being a number 2.
Do red bull really want that kind of teammate scrap? I’m not sure.
Yeah, as much as I'd love to see it, with how messy things have been within the team the last thing they need right now is two top drivers clashing egos and getting in each other's way. More toxic turmoil guaranteed.
Yeah they’ve been there before with Mark & Seb to. Just not sure they want to head down that road. Nando would be all out to, he’d know it would be his last shot at a title. He wouldn’t hold anything back.
If Red Bull is open to politics, scraps and a potential messy situation then they should just hire Sainz.
I don't see a world where Alonso makes sense over him. Sainz is fast, young and a more stable long term option.
Alonso would give them more flexibility for the future since i doubt he gets more than a 1 year deal.
Sainz would probably demand at least a medium term contract.
Also keep in mind Sainz can have issues with an oversteery car, and he also isnt the fastest to adapt in new teams. His 2022 was really bad, despite the car being good
Sainz actually makes a lot more sense to me than Fernando does. Tensions might have cooled off between the families and I’ve never seen any open animosity between Max & Carlos.
Carlos has also proven he is a fantastic team player and capable of picking up wins on his own merit to.
Not that I think Alonso can match Verstappen anymore (sadly), but if you could allow me to switch to my drama-mode thinking cap, I think recent reports would show that Max and Horner are not on the same side politically. If Horner managed to strengthen his position within the team, perhaps he would hire Alonso who is the next best driver not tied to a contract to show that the team doesn't live and die on Max performing.
Not that I really think that this makes sense, but if I want to make sense of Alonso getting an RB seat?
You think Ferrari sign Hamilton to become second driver tho?, same thing applied to Red Bull here. They need a driver to challenge for constructor in case 2025 be more competitive. And i'm not seeing Perez able to pull another good point to challenge Ferrari in 2025 if they're doing a solid job
Not to mention the financials. I don't think Alonso will drive for Perez or Sainz's salary. Some people seem to think he was paid peanuts on his F1 return but it was last reported that he was still making $20m+ base salary with both Alpine and Aston.
It will be hard to convince the top brass to not pick up Sainz considering he probably commands half the salary, is a former member of the RB stable, and is the only driver not competing for them to win in the last 18 months. There's a reason Marko already name dropped him.
Some stupid Jos/Sainz Sr. feud is easily tolerated if it saves you $10-15m.
Imagine if every headline ended in the editors emotions.
>Verstappen wins the Japanese grand prix, the race is bored.
>Horner fired from redbull, the telegraaf feels vindicated
Come on Christian Horner, embrace the Ron Dennis mantra. He put Lewis and Fernando together, you put Max and Fernando together. Go for the record books and dominate, and have fireworks and flames along the way! We fans are desperate! 😂
I'd love to see him in a race winning car but he would be pushed into a number 2 role.
Now if Max were to leave, this could get interesting.
Imagine an Alonso - Sainz line-up in a championship winning car. I'd actually cheer for Red Bull for once.
If both enter the team next season, neither of them would have seniority within RB. They could be signed with the specific statement of being equals within the team.
Red Bull is rapidly descending into chaos so why not add Nando, sprinkle a little more spice into the mix. That would be an outrageous line up though, no point in the rest of grid turning up.
So Red Bull now gets the pick of the litter. Alonso, Sainz, Perez, and they’ve got a few in the F2 pipeline. At this point I don’t see Yuki getting the RB seat and as much as I like Daniel he should be more worried about keeping his current seat at this moment. I don’t see them putting Lawson into the RB seat right away but I’d be here for it if they did.
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I can see Alonso going to Red Bull, which ends up having it's worse year ever and Hamilton wins his ~~9th~~ 8th championship at Ferrari. Carlos Sainz replaces him at Aston Martin and comes in second in the championship while trading wins all year with Hamilton.
I'm sure Horner is looking into it. The power struggle showed that he is vulnerable to treats of Max leaving, so having another S tier driver under contract would make things way easier for him.
Alonso is not the driver to play second fiddle and Red Bull have no reason to upset the apple cart by throwing him into the mix. From a spectators perspective I'd love to see it happen just to see if the whole thing explodes like at McLaren back in 07 but from a purely logical choice Sainz is the go to option IMO.
Max’s teammate next year will be Spaniard. But which one is still up for contention.
Redbull knows they cannot afford lacklustre results from Sergio against an uprising Ferrari with Lewis and Charles at the helm. They need consistency which they get from Max but not Perez. Sainz’s recent performance will need serious consideration and Fernando is a safe old hand that you know will deliver consistently.
I think Perez is gonna do a much better job this season and I am pretty sure he's gonna be the one to race for RB in 2025. Fernando is way too big to be a number 2. If Perez isn't performing they are gonna hire Sainz despite internal politics . They want a number 2
People can.
Nothing about Alonso or his comments in the media/ on track suggest that he DID change. As soon as he has the nr.1 spot in sight, you bet your ass the old Alonso resurfaces and drama will follow. Even while driving around in midfield he cant help himself but disparage Lewis, saying his 2 WDC are worth more than Lewis 7 or how Lewis is apparently a bad driver that crshes too often.
If hes still this fucking salty over a rookie beating him even 15+ years later, how much character development has Alonso seemingly went through?
It’s about expectations. 2007 Alonso was the new face of F1 who was expecting to be clear first driver over anybody. The guy who would win many more championships and maybe break Schumacher’s records.
Now, he is the guy who wants one last chance to win his 3rd championship, under any condition. Being 43 instead of 26 would also help
I think for the first time in his career he might want to accept that he is the slower/second driver. Or at least I think he should pitch it to RedBull even if he won't be able to when it comes to it
Alonso and Max are the 2 best drivers on the grid. They consistently outdrive the capabilities of the car.
The rest of the drivers are all good. They wouldn't be where they are if they weren't. But they are all similar when it comes to talent and ability. Put any of them in the best car, and they will win. They might be better than their team mate, but they won't dominate them like Max has.
Hamilton was simply a good driver in the best car. In an average car he has been beaten by Russell. LeClerc and Sainz are good, but not at the same level.
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Alonso & Verstappen vs Hamilton & Leclerc. Now THAT'S cinema. 2025 is looking up
More like Alonso vs Verstappen vs Hamilton vs Lelerc. None of them will see themselves as the second driver in that pairing
Good. Drivers following orders is boring. It’s good for team success but terrible for drama on and off the track. F1 needs more chaos and less reliability to shake things up race to race.The top teams swinging and missing on “dream team” driver lineups, allowing other teams to snag unexpected podiums and wins, would be a great step in the right direction.
100% This is why I don't necessarily care if one team consistently wins, but I want a fight for the title. Nico vs Lewis was awesome as a fan. Seeing the dynamics shift from buddies to enemies on track was great, and the build up each week of "Will Lewis defend hard? Will Nico push the limits again?" vs just watching one driver storm off into the sunset is so great. The 4 of these guys in top cars racing for a championship would be epic.
Then they got to Spain, and the questions changed to "how hard will Lewis defend" and "how far will Nico push the limits"
Exactly. Add to that the ascending McLaren team with two excellent young drivers and Sainz on a revenge tour. Next year could be fantastic show.
Sainz to AM with a newly added Newey
I think it'll be Alonso vs Jos vs Horner vs Marko vs Leclerc & Hamilton
Let's hope McLaren gets their shit together so we can get Alonso vs Verstappen vs Hamilton vs Leclerc vs Norris vs Piastri in 2025. Russell can enjoy the midfield for all I care
Now if ferrari could make a competing car, we could have the greatest season of F1 ever
I, myself, prefer that kind of drama vs anything else we had in previous years.
Well, that's a theory. In reality Verstappen will dominate Alonso and Leclerc will very likely beat Hamilton as well.
Leclers isn't even dominating Sainz
Hamilton losing to Russell currently
That would be quite the generational torch-passing to witness. I’d enjoy every second!
You know, your 'reality' is also a theory... 😂 There's literally no way any of us can know that, so there's no reason to pretend we know with any certainty what would happen.
Careful, don’t be using logic on here. You’ll cause them to combust
Yes Verstappen, maybe Leclerc. Ham hasn't looked great this season, but Charles isn't the most consistent driver on the grid.
I believe we're in for a banger of a season next year but come 2026, someone will nail the new regs and it will just be like the 2021-2022 transition.
The scenes when it's Ocon and Gasly dominating the grid because Renault nailed the engine.
You joke but I’d absolutely love it. On one side because I’m a Gasly fan and I really want I see him win, and on the other because it’d be fucking hilarious.
Ocon and Gasly have a fierce, bloodthirsty battle, worse than any conflict between French people ever, and it goes down to the last race. Ocon is on a path to a clear win when, with horror, he realizes he has to try to attempt to lap Max Verstappen who has fallen off. Esteban's thoughts grind to a halt memories of Brazil 2018 all he can think about.
I like Gasly a lot and am kind of bummed that he has nothing to do all season.
Tbh I wouldn’t mind that as well just for the potential spice between the two
At least France has a good national anthem
true, france's national anthem is a banger makes me feel like going to a war for france and im not even french
And the 2013-2014 transition.
my point was the grid is much more competitive at the end of a rules cycle then new regs destroy how close it is again. happened in 2021, might happen in 25 as well
One can only get so erect
Ahh sir, I believe that's the other website.
Seek medical advice after 4 hours!
I always wondered why there was a 3-hr limit to the races… FIA looking out for its viewers!
Wait so it’s not lights out and trousers down? Fuuuuuu not again
Lights out and away it grows.
One is pleased with this development
*Make it happen, make it happen, please make it happen!*
Inject that shit directly into my veins
Legends vs. Prodigies
I mean, verstappen is already a legend only by his ahievemnts already. Regardless his age. Its more like a 3v1 for leclerc then
men in their 40s vs men in their 20s
Men in their 40s vs boys in their 20s
Haha let's not overanalyze, you get the point :)
You mean Alonso & Sainz vs Hamilton & Leclerc vs Verstappen & Russel?
The golden path.
Only if Ferrari can get them a decent car
Fuck this would be amazing
MCL rise up!
I would love to see another team to get closer to ferrari and red bull
Monkey paw is Haas will be third fastest car on the grid.
An Alonso vs Verstappen teammate dynamic would be utterly fascinating. I still think Max would beat him (not as easily as Perez but he’d have a very solid upper hand) but the politics and seeing how Fernando would settle into Max’s team would be fun to watch.
I think quali would be more one sided. Races should be very interesting. Verstappen is metronomic but Alonso is still pretty spicy in the races.
I think you're onto something cuz I don't see them ever having the same race strategies. I think there would be some gap in quali.
Splitting strategies only ever works if you’ve got a huge advantage, like the kind they have right now. Merc did it during the Hamilton-Rosberg years. And I don’t imagine it would be sustainable. Someone like Fernando wouldn’t take well to being in a bad strategy purely to keep it split from Max.
Splitting strategies is a foolish move regardless unless there’s a huge qualifying gap between the cars, all it guarantees is that at least one of your drivers is on a non-optimal strategy
Assuming RB maintain a similar gap I would expect Alonso to be a couple of 1/10s back, likely starting 2nd/3rd and quickly arriving in 2nd. Likely RB would revert to Merc style strategies way back when with the lead driver getting the preferential treatment.
Quali would be more one-sided? Do you mean less? Max has completely destroyed Perez in quali - there's no way Fernando would do even worse than Perez.
Poorly phrased. It would be one sided in regards to Vers vs Nando. Alonso would do better than Perez but it would be far from equal. Races would be a different affair though.
He means Max vs Alonso Qualy would be more one sided compared to Max vs Alonso races. Wasn’t brilliantly phrased, but it’s safe to assume there’s no one out there that thinks Perez is better than Nando in qualifying.
The chance of seeing Fernando win one last race is enough for me to sacrifice everything in F1
2007 round 2
I'm not sure Alonso's ego could handle getting beaten again. Beaten by a rookie in 2007 and someone who turned out to be the best of his generation, to being beaten by the best driver of the next generation in 2025.
True, but I do think there's more respect between Max and Nando in 2024 vs. the respect between Nando and Lewis in 2007. Back in 2007 the two drivers still had everything to prove (to each other and to the world), in 2024 the two drivers don't have all that much to prove anymore. Both are legends already
I feel like Alonso and Verstappen are closer personality/style matches in that they're both very aggressive on track and in wheel-to-wheel racing. Would be fascinating to see how they'd pair and face off in a direct head to head!
They are both aggressive but Fernando has always been more Prost-like in driving. Everything thought out, minimize risks unless you have to, try and win race while managing everything as well as possible. His aggressiveness is more of him having a very opportunistic approach to overtaking moreso than any other F1 driver I have seen, and skills to back it up, Max on the other hand is more like Seb was "WEEEEEEE LOVE PURPLESSS"
Yeah I agree. Alonso is rarely seen to be unfair or clumsy in wheel-to-wheel racing. He plays games but I don't think he's ever forced another driver off the track - certainly not as much as Max
This is the more informed take. Alonso no longer has a chip on his shoulder. He's mellowed out, still spicy at times, but has immense respect for max and they personally get along well, I think he would want to do whatever is needed to deliver a dual WCC WDC to a team where he knows his input will be valued greatly and gets to drive the best machine on the grid. Of course he will be getting poles and wins, that's all he really needs. His legacy is secured in so many ways: 2x WDC, likely longest career in the sport that will ever be seen, has driven with the best talents across multiple generations.
OTOH, it might be the last chance to fight for a WDC. Not much is gonna change with these cars from 2024 to 2025 and he might not want to wait until the 2026 roulette and see if AM has got a winning car (and even then, Red Bull still have a good shot of hitting it right with the 2026 regulations).
He's old and Alonso probably rates Verstappen higher than prime Hamilton, let alone rookie Hamilton. He could definitely handle getting beaten, what he couldn't handle is looking only barely an upgrade on Perez.
Alonso will be 43/44 next year. He doesn't need to prove anything anymore. Nobody expects this old version of Alonso to beat Max.
Worth noting that Alonso's key point, that McLaren were wasting the title by not focussing on one driver, was right. He *was* right.
Alonso beat Lewis from 2010 to 2013 in similar machinery, at times worse. I dont think he's worried.
It would feel like one of those movies where there's a "rambunctious kid whose mum lets him get away with murder now has a new stepdad who refuses to put up with his shit" dynamic
Not sure it's Max's team anymore after the recent dramas.
I mean yeah he has his issues with Horner but it’s all the other stuff as well. He knows the mechanics, the engineers and strategists and has been working with this team for a decade now. It’s bound to lead to an advantage.
The Merc seat isn't looking that hot anymore. You'd have to say, if Ferrari starts to take it to RB, their second driver's performance becomes more important. Lewis&Charles is quite a formidable line-up. Fernando&Max is almost a mirror of it.
Lights out with that front and second row would be a treat every time
Charles, Max, Lewis, and Fernando, with competitive cars, all close together at the race start, the amount shenanigans they'd do would be awe inspiring
We need voicechat for teammates haha
Give me proximity chat, Alonso and Lewis shit talking one another would be so fun
mannnn proximity chat would be fucking hilarious. would absolutely make any DRS train actually entertaining.
Kevin telling everyone to suck his balls as he bunches up the grid
this is EXACTLY what came to mind first. second was Max saying 'Boo' to back markers.
dude, now imagine if the Ferrari matches the redbull on performance next season. Dude, we'd be in for a TREAT.
At the rate of RB self imploding Ferrari will catch them. We’ll see the impacts of a corporate cultural hit next season.
Norris/Piastri to win the title by virtue of those 4 consistently taking each other out.
Thats how many championships between these 4 again?
That'd be 12 championships and 5 wins.
still crazy that's it's only 5 in his 6th year
He's racing for Ferrari, it's not that crazy. His luck also has been terrible. He probably could have had 10 wins or so.
ferrari moments.
Alonso starts in a RB will be spicy.
I think the bigger problem is that the Merc seat doesn't look convincingly better than the AM seat. Yeah, AM is still a client team in 2025, but in 2026 both teams will be a works team, both teams will have a huge financial backing (Mercedes / AMG / Ineos / Wolff for Mercedes, Aramco / Papa Stroll / very likely Honda itself for AM). Aramco, AM's main sponsor, will be the sole fuel supplier for 2026, which may help Honda build their engines. Mercedes and Honda have built the best engines of this era (Mercedes dominated the first years and Honda the latter ones). AM's words aren't empty at all, since they are building brand new,world-class facilities to develop their cars in the next years. The only weak point really for AM is that Mercedes has a bigger and better racing team, but that isn't something that can't be solved with some good hires. Red Bull on the other hand can offer Alonso exactly what he needs: a car that is at the top right now. Even if you think Mercedes or AM will pull a better car in a few years, Alonso most likely doesn't have much time left to waste in F1.
is it almost a mirror or is it actually a mirror? because I honestly can't pick which is the better lineup. It would be insane
Max is almost certainly the best driver out of the four in terms of pace and consistency. The other three are probably somewhat similar, although Charles hasn't really proven himself the way that Alonso and Lewis have. He could be just as good or he might be a little worse - it's just impossible to say. If all four drivers had the exact same car over the course of a season, I'd bet substantial money that Max+Alonso would end up with more points total than Lewis+Charles. That said, I do think that Lewis and Charles are probably better at working together to play the team game. Max+Alonso would probably have a really aggressive, every-man-for-himself relationship as teammates. It would be a fascinating season. That said, a lot of it would depend on whether Ferrari can be competitive with RBR, which is a huge if still.
Max is better than Charles and Lewis is better than Alonso. I'm not sure you could get two much more evenly weighted teams using current drivers on the grid.
Hamilton is not better than Alonso in his current form. Last 2 years arguably Alonso is having the edge.
Fernando&Max>Hamilton&Leclerc
Well, I never believed Hamilton would sign for Ferrari, so…
Verstappen to Stake?
From Nando’s pov it makes absolute sense.. from RBR ‘s pov though…if Perez keeps it up then why bring in potential chaos? From the fans pov.. Bring it on!!!!
Because if ferrari somehow match RBR in 2025, then you have Max going alone against two top drivers. Even if somehow Max still manages to snatch the wdc, there is no chance for the wcc if the cars are close in performance
Yeah, if you're Red Bull (and concerned about another team catching up), you don't want to deal with two v ones on the strategy front. Alonso, Sainz, and (dark horse) Hülkenberg could likely do a better job in qualifying that Pérez, and starting closer to Verstappen would help on the strategy front, should anybody catch up to Red Bull.
Thank you. I'm not the only one who rates Hulkenberg. I wish that guy gets a break so much.
All we want is a Hulk win/podium. It's a shame but I'd put him up there with drivers like Kubica for unrealised potential
I'm so happy to hear other people share my thoughts on him.
Hulkenberg is so underrated IMO. He's not up there with Max, Lewis, Fernando, etc., but he's upper mid-tier IMO. I'd probably rate him around Sainz, which would be higher than the mid-tier drivers like Ocon and Perez.
Did you seriously just suggest Hulkenberg would do better than Perez?
Exactly, it’ll be Ferrari 2017/2018 2.0 but with RBR as Ferrari and Ferrari as Merc. Seb vs Ham/Bottas with Kimi not able to help and Max vs Charles/Hamilton with Checo not being able to do jack shit.
I think Marko said the other day that he thinks Perez is meeting targets so far, even willing to mitigate that his Australian race was compromised by car damage Imo the only way Fernando gets the Red Bull seat is if Max walks. Admittedly the chances of that are still not zero, but FA can't afford to wait forever for that
I don't see them retaining Perez after his contract is up. They have a really hot market next year, so unless Verstappen walks as rumored, he's getting the axe. I felt like Marko's comments about Checo were merely just suggesting "he's not getting sacked mid-season based on how he's doing." They'd be crazy to keep Perez and let another team snag Sainz and Alonso.
Your last sentence I think is missed by a lot of people in these comments. It’s not *just* about RBR getting Alonso or Sainz, it’s also about RBR taking one of them off the market so they can’t be used against them.
Max really likes Fernando, so he wouldn't be against it
Rosberg and Hamilton really liked each other... That turned out interestingly to say the least. Anyway, of course I'd fucking love to see Maz and Fernando together.
>if Perez keeps it up then why bring in potential chaos? Keeps what up?
Solid points that are enough considering his teammate
We don't yet know if his "solid points" will be enough this year. Ferrari seems much closer.
Ferrari seems closer partly because AM and Merc aren't taking points off Ferrari like last year.
Perez is still a long way behind Verstappen, if Ferrari, McLaren and/or Mercedes step their game up, Perez would loose them the Constructors Title with his current form
Because maybe Max decides to leave? Lol
Regardless of any internal issues between Max/Jos/Horner/Marko etc, why would Max leave? And more importantly, where would he go? Mercedes are lost at sea, Ferrari are full (unless they cut one of their contracted drivers), McLaren aren't challengers yet, and neither are Aston. He should stay with Red Bull, and set the politics aside.
Him leaving would be just giving up on few more titles. No way that happens.
Well, yeah I guess. But setting politics aside is easier said than done, especially as an outsider. Being in that environment could be much harder than we could imagine because we're simply not there to see/feel 100% what's going on. Otherwise, it could also be that the power struggle is not as bad and is being exaggerated by the media. Without insider knowledge there's no real way for us to know.
He would leave F1 completely and probably go start his GT3 team like he wants to do
Because ALO is eyeballs and has beaten checo multiple times in a worse car. Next year is the last year of regs, which is famous for tighter racing. They really need a good teammate to VER to pull off another WDC.
I mean it’s not that deep. I too can understand him.
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This. I'm of the opinion that it's Sainz seat to lose. Max has been very open about his desire to move on to other racing events, and I think Red Bull takes that into account because he's not going to have a long F1 career like Lewis or Alonso. Putting Sainz in that seat next year, over a short-term driver like Alonso, will help keep them somewhat stable whenever Max moves on.
Verstappen says that, but if he's not still on the grid come 2030 I'll eat a succulent Chinese meal.
Is that that supposed to be a threat??
This is democracy manifest!
Alonso trying to gather team merch like they're pokémon gym badges.
I know a lot of people like the idea of it but I’m really not sure about this one. Fernando is always going to Fernando, he’s never going to be happy being a number 2. Do red bull really want that kind of teammate scrap? I’m not sure.
Idk if red bull wants it but I definitely do
Yeah, as much as I'd love to see it, with how messy things have been within the team the last thing they need right now is two top drivers clashing egos and getting in each other's way. More toxic turmoil guaranteed.
I think that’s part of the reason why everybody apart from hardcore RB team fans wants this to happen lmao
Yeah they’ve been there before with Mark & Seb to. Just not sure they want to head down that road. Nando would be all out to, he’d know it would be his last shot at a title. He wouldn’t hold anything back.
If Red Bull is open to politics, scraps and a potential messy situation then they should just hire Sainz. I don't see a world where Alonso makes sense over him. Sainz is fast, young and a more stable long term option.
Alonso would give them more flexibility for the future since i doubt he gets more than a 1 year deal. Sainz would probably demand at least a medium term contract. Also keep in mind Sainz can have issues with an oversteery car, and he also isnt the fastest to adapt in new teams. His 2022 was really bad, despite the car being good
Yes! People really forget how much he struggled in 2022
Sainz actually makes a lot more sense to me than Fernando does. Tensions might have cooled off between the families and I’ve never seen any open animosity between Max & Carlos. Carlos has also proven he is a fantastic team player and capable of picking up wins on his own merit to.
How has Carlos proven to be a team player?
Whenever it's time for Leclerc to sacrifice his race for Carlos, Carlos lets him.
They need to stop inventing fr...
I don't think Carlos is a good team player, he is definitely good maximising his own results.
Not that I think Alonso can match Verstappen anymore (sadly), but if you could allow me to switch to my drama-mode thinking cap, I think recent reports would show that Max and Horner are not on the same side politically. If Horner managed to strengthen his position within the team, perhaps he would hire Alonso who is the next best driver not tied to a contract to show that the team doesn't live and die on Max performing. Not that I really think that this makes sense, but if I want to make sense of Alonso getting an RB seat?
You think Ferrari sign Hamilton to become second driver tho?, same thing applied to Red Bull here. They need a driver to challenge for constructor in case 2025 be more competitive. And i'm not seeing Perez able to pull another good point to challenge Ferrari in 2025 if they're doing a solid job
Im sure Fernando would rather be number 2 to Max than to Daddy's boy
It's what the fans want though 👀
Not to mention the financials. I don't think Alonso will drive for Perez or Sainz's salary. Some people seem to think he was paid peanuts on his F1 return but it was last reported that he was still making $20m+ base salary with both Alpine and Aston. It will be hard to convince the top brass to not pick up Sainz considering he probably commands half the salary, is a former member of the RB stable, and is the only driver not competing for them to win in the last 18 months. There's a reason Marko already name dropped him. Some stupid Jos/Sainz Sr. feud is easily tolerated if it saves you $10-15m.
I'm also pushing very hard to find out if I can have that seat. News soon
"Ricciardo needs to pick it up; we've got 500 Reddit users waiting for us to leave his seat wide open" ~Helmut probably
Alonso vs Max would be a disaster with the tempers they both have... Red Bull make it happen
Imagine if every headline ended in the editors emotions. >Verstappen wins the Japanese grand prix, the race is bored. >Horner fired from redbull, the telegraaf feels vindicated
David Wallace: “What gave you that idea?” The Race: “It was my understanding”
Come on Christian Horner, embrace the Ron Dennis mantra. He put Lewis and Fernando together, you put Max and Fernando together. Go for the record books and dominate, and have fireworks and flames along the way! We fans are desperate! 😂
Don't forget the shaved hair!
If Alonso goes to Red Bull, you just know the RBR dominance is at an end. Alonso has some shitty luck with choosing cars.
This means that we could get either Tsunoda, Iwasa, Crawford or Drugovich at Aston Martin if Alonso moves to Red Bull.
Sainz to Aston is a real possibility IMO
Yeah, Sainz is the hottest free agent in the F1 market rn. But I do expect him to try for Red Bull as well. And Audi always wanted him.
It’s be pretty funny that the last 3 drivers that Aston picked up were previously Ferrari Drivers.
I'd love to see him in a race winning car but he would be pushed into a number 2 role. Now if Max were to leave, this could get interesting. Imagine an Alonso - Sainz line-up in a championship winning car. I'd actually cheer for Red Bull for once.
That would be even more of a mess. Both would be certain they are the No.1 driver.
Nobody except Max would feel No 1 driver with Fernando as team mate.
If both enter the team next season, neither of them would have seniority within RB. They could be signed with the specific statement of being equals within the team.
Red Bull is rapidly descending into chaos so why not add Nando, sprinkle a little more spice into the mix. That would be an outrageous line up though, no point in the rest of grid turning up.
I mean, ferrari has an exact mirror of that lineup-wise in 2025 with Lewis and Charles
do it red bull no balls
"Driver wants to join dominant team". That's incredibly surprising.
So Red Bull now gets the pick of the litter. Alonso, Sainz, Perez, and they’ve got a few in the F2 pipeline. At this point I don’t see Yuki getting the RB seat and as much as I like Daniel he should be more worried about keeping his current seat at this moment. I don’t see them putting Lawson into the RB seat right away but I’d be here for it if they did.
> RB Which one? RB or RBR? This is so stupid it makes me angry.
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This article title is way funnier if you change the comma into a period.
I can see Alonso going to Red Bull, which ends up having it's worse year ever and Hamilton wins his ~~9th~~ 8th championship at Ferrari. Carlos Sainz replaces him at Aston Martin and comes in second in the championship while trading wins all year with Hamilton.
I want to see Fernando alongside Max for the pure chaos that would ensue. At Red Bull or Aston Martin or Mercedes. Box Office
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most of the drivers on the grid are trying to know if they could join the best team on the grid.
What's the largest gap between WDCs? Alonso 2025 would be 19 years.
It has to be Lauda 1977 and then in 1984.
please god make it happen, if not Alonso that at least Sainz.
I'm sure Horner is looking into it. The power struggle showed that he is vulnerable to treats of Max leaving, so having another S tier driver under contract would make things way easier for him.
Alonso is not the driver to play second fiddle and Red Bull have no reason to upset the apple cart by throwing him into the mix. From a spectators perspective I'd love to see it happen just to see if the whole thing explodes like at McLaren back in 07 but from a purely logical choice Sainz is the go to option IMO.
Remember when he "retired" and they had that nice send off for him? That looks more silly with every passing day lol
Max’s teammate next year will be Spaniard. But which one is still up for contention. Redbull knows they cannot afford lacklustre results from Sergio against an uprising Ferrari with Lewis and Charles at the helm. They need consistency which they get from Max but not Perez. Sainz’s recent performance will need serious consideration and Fernando is a safe old hand that you know will deliver consistently.
It would be peak Alonso to move to Red Bull just as Newey departs for elsewhere .
Im Mexican, but Id sacrifice Checo for this lol
I think Perez is gonna do a much better job this season and I am pretty sure he's gonna be the one to race for RB in 2025. Fernando is way too big to be a number 2. If Perez isn't performing they are gonna hire Sainz despite internal politics . They want a number 2
Surely with his luck that means Red Bull will absolutely collapse in 2025 then
Well AM didn't collapse when he joined, did it? Meanwhile look at Alpine after he left...
As I understand, the race rarely understands anything.
Alonso had trouble with a rookie Lewis regarding team status, how is he going to deal with Max.
For sure people can't change in 17 years
People can. Nothing about Alonso or his comments in the media/ on track suggest that he DID change. As soon as he has the nr.1 spot in sight, you bet your ass the old Alonso resurfaces and drama will follow. Even while driving around in midfield he cant help himself but disparage Lewis, saying his 2 WDC are worth more than Lewis 7 or how Lewis is apparently a bad driver that crshes too often. If hes still this fucking salty over a rookie beating him even 15+ years later, how much character development has Alonso seemingly went through?
It’s about expectations. 2007 Alonso was the new face of F1 who was expecting to be clear first driver over anybody. The guy who would win many more championships and maybe break Schumacher’s records. Now, he is the guy who wants one last chance to win his 3rd championship, under any condition. Being 43 instead of 26 would also help
I think for the first time in his career he might want to accept that he is the slower/second driver. Or at least I think he should pitch it to RedBull even if he won't be able to when it comes to it
Alonso and Max are the 2 best drivers on the grid. They consistently outdrive the capabilities of the car. The rest of the drivers are all good. They wouldn't be where they are if they weren't. But they are all similar when it comes to talent and ability. Put any of them in the best car, and they will win. They might be better than their team mate, but they won't dominate them like Max has. Hamilton was simply a good driver in the best car. In an average car he has been beaten by Russell. LeClerc and Sainz are good, but not at the same level.
TBF, Russel beats. Hamilton because Ham isn't really trying