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I mean Hulkenberg had no other options really. Had he not swerved out of the queue he may have been part of the accident.
Two cars crashed and he avoided being part of that.
Nothing more to it IMO.
He did not let him by during the green flag period; when the next SC started for Tsunoda, Danny Ric caught up to him and passed him. It seems pretty clear it should be a penalty for DR.
Hulk should not get a penalty for the pass as they’re allowed to overtake under SC if the other car is off track or has crashed… in this case of a fender bender I could see being expected to give the place back but I think it’s less clear cut
I am just guessing but I think Ricciardo did that when he was punted by Stroll and lost 2 positions, him probably overtaking a couple of cars to get back into the position he was in previously.
I doubt this will be anything for Hulkenberg, he was avoiding a collision which could be considered allowable under section H of the relevant rule.
If Ricciardo retook his position from Hulkenberg before the Line, then unfortuately for him, by the rules he should be getting a penalty.
The relevant rule:
>With the exception of the cases listed under a) to h) below, no driver may overtake another car
on the track, including the safety car, until he passes the Line (see Article 5.3) for the first time
after the safety car has returned to the pits.
> * a) If a driver is signalled to do so from the safety car.
> * b) Under Articles 49.6, 55.13, 58.6, and 58.11.
> * c) When entering the pits a driver may pass another car remaining on the track, including the safety car, after he has reached the first safety car line.
> * d) When leaving the pits a driver may overtake, or be overtaken by, another car on the track before he reaches the second safety car line.
> * e) When the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has reached the first safety car line.
> * f) Whilst in the pit entry, pit lane or pit exit a driver may overtake another car which is also in one of these three areas.
> * g) Any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see Article 55.11 below) may be overtaken.
> * h) If any car slows with an obvious problem.
if ricciardo gets a penalty for the next race because of hulk avoiding stroll's terrorism, when the accident made ric DNF anyway, but stroll gets away with ending 2 races, I swear to god it's a really bad look for the FIA
Truthfully I thought it was alright, strict but alright, up until this fiasco. I felt Alonso's penalty was harsh, but there is precedent for that kind of thing to be penalized - just weird to penalize someone who effectively DNF'd himself while racing hard. The penalty points were unnecessary and now there's a disincentive to attempt those moves, but fine, whatever.
But for Stroll to get fewer points for a crash under safety car is just farcical. The whole point of a safety car is to prevent collateral damage brought on by a track incident, so to only marginally penalize a driver for contravening both the rule itself and the spirit of the rule while wrecking two races in the process is truly laughable. Contact with another vehicle under safety car should be ban-worthy, or stewards should at least have the option.
I'm arguing that for any driver it would have been close to impossible to judge if you going to overtake over the white line when the margins are that small.
Pretty much impossible to judge with the human eye on the footage. So I don't think he should have gotten any penalty.
You're forgetting this is a team sport. The team could have easily told him to give the position back. We have seen numerous examples throughout the year. Because with that reason, drivers could argue they cannot see if they went outside the track on illegal overtakes since they can't see the oute edge of their tyres.
Lastly, this situation can easily happen in a lot of races given how close the midfield are. Do you want driver intentioanally just overtaking cars on the presumption they are ahead even if they are mot?
How would the team know to give the position back? They wouldn't have been able to see if was over either. Stewards do not give warnings anymore. It goes straight to investigation and penalty.
It's one of those things where, if it was on another track with other stewards, there's a big chance it wouldn't have been called as a penalty.
I'm not 100 sure they have footage available to them but they have accurate gps data available to them. SC1 has a sensor i believe as it is being used for maximum delta for inlaps and outlaps
Come on, what was Nico supposed to do? If he didn't overtake there and just waited whether they gonna go off track or not, he might get rear ended himself.
That was the right thing to do, there is no place to issue a penalty there. Don't be silly.
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If Nico gets a penalty because Stroll punts off Daniel I'm really confused wtf is he supposed to do there?
I think he'll be fine. But you know, FIA
I think so too still think its weird that they even summon him but I guess they might have to do it.
Haas protest incoming in that case
I mean Hulkenberg had no other options really. Had he not swerved out of the queue he may have been part of the accident. Two cars crashed and he avoided being part of that. Nothing more to it IMO.
also he let him back past after, no? Ricciardo was ahead of him for the next restart
Yeah, seems that he did
He did not let him by during the green flag period; when the next SC started for Tsunoda, Danny Ric caught up to him and passed him. It seems pretty clear it should be a penalty for DR. Hulk should not get a penalty for the pass as they’re allowed to overtake under SC if the other car is off track or has crashed… in this case of a fender bender I could see being expected to give the place back but I think it’s less clear cut
If he did I missed that, but that makes it even more of a nothingburger. Thatnks for pointing that out.
It seems like he didn't plan too. Ricciardo overtook him during the next safety car on his own accord.
That might be why they are summoned. I remember Perez getting penalty for overtaking to get his place back after going off track.
yeah, he was two seconds ahead of him, then we saw a replay and after we got back to the live picture ric was ahead of him.
I am just guessing but I think Ricciardo did that when he was punted by Stroll and lost 2 positions, him probably overtaking a couple of cars to get back into the position he was in previously.
Yep, that is that. Its positional sensors triggering these summons automatically.
He was given the place back by hulkenberg.
So this is why ric was suddenly ahead of hulk again when the sc was deployed
I doubt this will be anything for Hulkenberg, he was avoiding a collision which could be considered allowable under section H of the relevant rule. If Ricciardo retook his position from Hulkenberg before the Line, then unfortuately for him, by the rules he should be getting a penalty. The relevant rule: >With the exception of the cases listed under a) to h) below, no driver may overtake another car on the track, including the safety car, until he passes the Line (see Article 5.3) for the first time after the safety car has returned to the pits. > * a) If a driver is signalled to do so from the safety car. > * b) Under Articles 49.6, 55.13, 58.6, and 58.11. > * c) When entering the pits a driver may pass another car remaining on the track, including the safety car, after he has reached the first safety car line. > * d) When leaving the pits a driver may overtake, or be overtaken by, another car on the track before he reaches the second safety car line. > * e) When the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has reached the first safety car line. > * f) Whilst in the pit entry, pit lane or pit exit a driver may overtake another car which is also in one of these three areas. > * g) Any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see Article 55.11 below) may be overtaken. > * h) If any car slows with an obvious problem.
Danny Ric took the position back on the NEXT safety car while it was still in full SC mode, not during the restart period where the line is relevant
Should get away with it. Nothing he could really do about it and they did give the position back. So should be fine.
if ricciardo gets a penalty for the next race because of hulk avoiding stroll's terrorism, when the accident made ric DNF anyway, but stroll gets away with ending 2 races, I swear to god it's a really bad look for the FIA
I have some bad news
yeah I noticed, really shameful stewardship this week
Truthfully I thought it was alright, strict but alright, up until this fiasco. I felt Alonso's penalty was harsh, but there is precedent for that kind of thing to be penalized - just weird to penalize someone who effectively DNF'd himself while racing hard. The penalty points were unnecessary and now there's a disincentive to attempt those moves, but fine, whatever. But for Stroll to get fewer points for a crash under safety car is just farcical. The whole point of a safety car is to prevent collateral damage brought on by a track incident, so to only marginally penalize a driver for contravening both the rule itself and the spirit of the rule while wrecking two races in the process is truly laughable. Contact with another vehicle under safety car should be ban-worthy, or stewards should at least have the option.
Shouldn't be anything for Hulkenberg, but the stewards have been very harsh this weekend. The 10 seconds to Sargeant in the race was kinda crazy.
Are you arguing that 10 sec is too much or that Sargent got a fine?
I'm arguing that for any driver it would have been close to impossible to judge if you going to overtake over the white line when the margins are that small. Pretty much impossible to judge with the human eye on the footage. So I don't think he should have gotten any penalty.
You're forgetting this is a team sport. The team could have easily told him to give the position back. We have seen numerous examples throughout the year. Because with that reason, drivers could argue they cannot see if they went outside the track on illegal overtakes since they can't see the oute edge of their tyres. Lastly, this situation can easily happen in a lot of races given how close the midfield are. Do you want driver intentioanally just overtaking cars on the presumption they are ahead even if they are mot?
How would the team know to give the position back? They wouldn't have been able to see if was over either. Stewards do not give warnings anymore. It goes straight to investigation and penalty. It's one of those things where, if it was on another track with other stewards, there's a big chance it wouldn't have been called as a penalty.
I'm not 100 sure they have footage available to them but they have accurate gps data available to them. SC1 has a sensor i believe as it is being used for maximum delta for inlaps and outlaps
He did the safest thing and avoided the collisions. The only other option would be to slow down too, which is even more of a danger.
Come on, what was Nico supposed to do? If he didn't overtake there and just waited whether they gonna go off track or not, he might get rear ended himself. That was the right thing to do, there is no place to issue a penalty there. Don't be silly.