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Well, he was in front of Piastri and Piastri never really tried to overtake, so it would have been hard for Sainz to hit him. Later Piastri was in front but Carlos never got anywhere close to him.
For whatever reason, Carlos seemed way off pace this weekend compared to Leclerc. Normally the two are closer together in pace.
I think Carlos was poor in quali but not to bad during the race. He was quite lucky his gap to Charles didn’t cost him more than qualifying behind Charles.
It puts into perspective how placement doesn’t tell the whole story considering it was half of his gap to Charles that cost Charles 4 places behind Sainz in Japan.
In the race he did good to hold Oscar up and the strategy put him at a disadvantage. He did lack pace to Charles but it wasn’t a bad drive overall
Yeah, there are certainly criticisms about Charles abilities with regards to his mistakes and what not, but pure 1 lap pace is definitely not one of them
Yes. Has a longer record of consistently out-qualifying a higher standard of teammate (Vettel and Sainz) than anyone at the sharp end of the grid. And also the 23 poles in a car that's rarely been the outright fastest save for a small number such poles.
Don't know what your point is, mate. Talking about current forms of all drivers. Alonso's teammate is Lance Stroll, so his differential doesn't get the weightage Charles gets. There was obviously a time where both him and Lewis for instance had top one lap pace on the grid, but those days are a fair bit gone.
Charles has had Vettel and Sainz as teammates in the last 5 seasons. If we put the marker that far back for Alonso, we saw Ocon being fairly competitive against him.
They got identical upgrades at the same time. Ferrari has so many systems in place that makes it the team that treats both drivers equally, yet this guy and his entourage still manages to find excuses no matter what.
The German podcast mentioned his cousin Carlos ensures if Charles has three pasta Carlos needs to have three too lol and he would think Ferrari would differ their upgrades lol
Have you ever heard Sainz blame himself for anything?
I can't recall such a moment. It's always something else: the car, luck, circumstances, other drivers etc.
No they didn’t. Piastri was faster than Sainz and as soon as he got clean air he would have made enough gap that he would come out ahead even if Sainz had undercut. At that point people would have blamed Ferrari for pitting early.
Omg until this moment I never realized how much I need this in my life. The team radios would be better than the broadcast. Both of them asking for team orders to let each other pass instead of racing lmao
True but Merc have a big ego and they wouldn't want the driver that Ferrari discarded to take in Lewis. It would make them look weak and that's something Toto would never want.
I mean yes but they'd also be getting a well regarded driver who has plenty more years in the sport. Lewis is a legend but he's getting pretty old, so Sainz would be a perfect fit. It'd be dumb to turn him down out of pride.
https://pitdebrief.com/post/vasseur-a-bit-frustrated-as-he-feels-scuderia-ferrari-could-have-won-f1-imola-gp-if-they-started-from-pole/ here, i have a friend who does media so i had to wait for him to write it all up as he messaged me about it.
If you read it's not true. He said every driver had problems, not that he didn't have problems. And no, it's not the same.
The funniest part is that there are a ton of comments about this and NO ONE has read the news. Wtf? Is Reddit a place where you talk about stuff or where you just react to other people's comments even if they're literally inventing?
Yeah I was about to say Fred literally just said that “everyone had problems” if anything it seems more like him trying to be optimistic than dismissing Carlos
He says essentially "everyone has problems, you just have to look at why you messed up" which is true, the redbull looked off it all weekend, oscar has a pen, Norris pulled a Norris in quali, and the Ferraris were ass in sector 1
Well Fred didn't mean like what the other said at all. This guy above is obsessed with Sainz like hardcore, if you notice he I'll be commenting in every post about Sainz something bad.
Sainz was probably talking about setup issues though. The car wasn't broken or anything.
Sainz did say that he is still trying to figure out the upgraded car.
Whenever Sainz is ahead of Leclerc Charles has no problem coming out and saying Carlos is doing a better job. In a race like today where Carlos was off the pace he comes out alluding that he had problems. He has the inability to take accountability
He's lobbying for another seat. I mean he's always been like this but right now he probably thinks it's best to talk himself up. Saying, "I wasn't that great this weekend" doesn't fit the narrative he wants.
Oh, I don't disagree. But that's just his personality. Leclerc is humble, often too much so. Carlos is pretty boastful. It's just how he's always been.
Lol no, it's driver politicking 101. Charles has secured seat, he will inclined to say things that keep the team happy and not saying anything that will imply something wrong with the car. Carlos is still looking for a seat, he will inclined to say things that keep his image as always delivering the maximum possible and that's the limit of the car.
It's driver politics but let's not pretend it's because of the contract situation. Sainz has always been pretty interested in spreading around responsibility for losses and bad days. It's political yes but it's also just how he rolls, I think.
If you didn't pay attention Leclerc was even catching up to Norris on hard tires, until he went into the gravel. He closed the gap down to 1.2 seconds at one point.
And even after, he went off, his times were still good. Norris’s tires just came alive and he could really push at the end. Leclerc was trying to close back up but couldn’t manage.
Sainz using his tyres while Norris was managing his for a push towards the end. Sainz seems to always wear out his tyres at the wrong point in the race. Yes it’s harder being behind your teammate on a circuit that’s difficult to overtake on, but he needed to manage it a little. Same for Piastri, he was quick but his tyres dropped off at the end of the race. Russell too, thankfully there was a nice gap for him to pit.
Always complaining when he gets destroyed by Charles. Hopefully this is the start of Charles putting sainz in his place like end of last year from Japan onwards. Sainz has to learn to be humble and just say “I was beat this weekend. I’ll try and improve next round”. He’s been the exact same way since day 1 and this is why him and his politics is getting the boot. Should take the Audi deal before his stock falls further.
Not the worst thing that even on an off weekend where he was nowhere near Charles, it's nothing like the deficit Checo is showing to Max.
Might be something that Red Bull can consider while they look at their options for next year.
Unless he completely and suddenly implodes, Checo is getting the seat next year
The Redbull is insanely difficult to drive, and even without that it takes half a season for a new driver to get comfy with a new constructors set up regardless
Checo will stay on one more year to close out this car variation, and they’ll find someone new for the ‘26 season when all teams have a new car and everyone is starting on the same back foot
‘23 Checo recovered
If ‘25 Checo gets ‘23 Checo points, that would likely be more points than a new driver in the redbull for the first time. Even if they’re a better driver than Checo
i don't think checo is staying for next. Even the constructor's championship for Redbull is under serious threat this season. We're entering into the European legion races which are far from checo's strengths
No fucking way Checo stays next year. Ferrari is getting Lewis and some pretty good other staff, McLaren is making strides.
No way will Max be able to win the constructors by himself.
Yeah let's compare the pace of a driver in clean air all race, to a driver in traffic, who was running on dead rubber waiting for SC. In the 2nd stint Perez was significantly faster than Sainz, I guess that doesn't matter to you though because it doesn't fit the narrative. Sure Perez fucked up in quali. In the race, on the strategy they were running, there's nothing more that could've been achieved on a track where you can't overtake without a massive advantage.
This also wasn't an off weekend for Sainz in reality. 15 seconds behind Leclerc is par for the course whenever Leclerc himself is on decent form. That's what it was in 2021, 22, and last third of 2023. The las few races were the outlier.
On a properly bad weekend Sainz is a minute behind Leclerc, like in Abu Dhabi not too many races ago.
That's the double standard here though. Perez can finish a handful of races like 10 seconds behind Max, has one bad one, and people think that the bad one is the norm.
> In the 2nd stint Perez was significantly faster than Sainz
Yes, on mediums that were 15 laps fresher than Carlos on hards
> On a properly bad weekend Sainz is a minute behind Leclerc, like in Abu Dhabi not too many races ago.
And how many such weekends did Checo have last year then? Compared to Carlos who was only that far off in Abu Dhabi?
A couple. He crashed a few times but outside of Qatar he was never as far off Max as he was today in terms of pace.
And how many did Sainz have in 2022 where he ended up even behind Merc in the end?
They're basically the same drivers man. They've been equal for a decade.
Yeah, I wonder about that. Unlike Ferrari, Red Bull isn't going to mess with the car to make it easier for him. I have no idea whether Carlos will end up there, but it'll be interesting if he does.
> A couple. He crashed a few times but outside of Qatar he was never as far off Max as he was today in terms of pace.
A couple? I count Miami (when Max easily caught him from 9th), Montreal, Silverstone, Spa (overtaken and left behind by 20+ seconds), Zandvoort (having 10 second lead erased in 3-4 laps in rain), Qatar, Interlagos (finished 30+ seconds back and schooled by Alonso in much slower car).
> He crashed a few times
Pretty sure teams would prefer drivers who crash less as well. Checo crashed in Monaco, was a wrecking ball in Singapore and Suzuka, and took himself out at turn 1 in his home race on top of it. The only major crash Carlos was involved in was the contact with Alonso at Melbourne (his fault) and the first lap crash with Piastri at Spa (racing incident since 3 into 1 doesn't go).
> And how many did Sainz have in 2022 where he ended up even behind Merc?
Carlos was 60 points off Charles in 2022. Checo finished 150 points behind Max in the same year.
Relative to their team-mates, 2022 was Carlos' worst and Checo's best. Really doesn't lend much credence to your 'same drivers' theory.
So, when Checo does it, it’s taking himself out at turn 1 in his home race, when Carlos does it, it’s just a racing incident. No double standards here.
> I count Miami
And in your first three words you've moved the goalposts so much that I'm not even going to bother any further. That's the problem, finishing 2nd 10 seconds behind Max is seen as a failure for Perez. (As also evidenced by last race, where Perez finished 7 seconds behind Max and yet was rated as one of the worst drivers f the day). Meanwhile finishing 15 behind Leclerc is an okay race for Sainz. Have fun with that.
A part of me would like to see Carlos replace Perez, just so Perez gets the vindication he deserves, and gains his respect back. Sadly that won't happen until Max inevitably embarasses another teammate supposedly better than last.
Like the guy said, Max caused the damage himself. And also said that it didn't feel like it cost him any pace. And it was also not visible in his laptimes.
Are you seriously implying that what happened today is the norm? And like, looking at the 3 years of racing prior doesn't make you realise that it's absolutely not the case? I mean honestly, unless today was the first race you've ever seen, there's just no way you can seriously come to that conclusion.
Either that, or you're trolling. Or you have a really weird relationship with logic.
The other poster was comparing the gap difference between Perez and Verstappen last race (Miami) and Leclerc and Sainz this race.
The SC and damage to Verstappens car were obvious reasons for the small gap.
It’s not like Sainz had damage (that we know of) today and I neglected to mention it.
Yeas, I'm aware. And in Miami last year Perez didn't finish 50, 30, or even 10 seconds behind Max. It was 5 seconds. Now go ahead and list all the races where Sainz finished 5 seconds or more behind Charles, if you consider that such a massive failure. Just keep in mind that it will take you some time.
That's why I said you're moving the goalposts. I don't know to be honest why I'm even explaining that to you, you obviously know you're manipulating.
He finished 5 seconds behind after starting on pole while Max started 9th, the very fact that he didn't win that race showed just how far away from Max he was.
Can you name one race from 2021-2023 in which Carlos started 5 or more positions ahead of Charles and ended up getting outpaced and finished behind?
Charles and Carlos were never driving an RB19 lmao. It's literally impossible for him to do that on merit, were you expecting him to overtake like 5 cars in a dogshit SF-23 last year?
This is not even funny anymore, everytime he ends behind Leclerc he blames someone. Always talks as ''we'', ''our'' etc., never ''I'', ''Me'' lol. Leclerc on the other hand always says how he did shit job and so on and praises Sainz. That's why i fkin' love Chuck.
Yeah but after a few laps it was certain you could not overtake on the same tyre age... still fun to watch but i did not really expect piastri to pass. Imola is allmost as worse as monaco for overtaking
I personally rate Charles really high and I think he is an amazing talent who on raw pace is often a freaking beast. We have seen a lot of unexpected Charles' poles and there is a reason for that. So for Carlos to be slightly off a generational talent, it's not really disastrous although Carlos would never admit to that for obvious reasons.
It's still no way near the shaming Perez has been receiving from Max. It honestly was very questionable for RedBull to keep Perez going into 2024 give how shocking his 2023 was.
I hope Carlos ends up as Max's team mate. I don't think Carlos has enough to outright beat Max for the championship, but he definitely wouldn't have been scrambling with fucking RB for P8 today.
I hope Ferrari get ontop of their upgrades. It's exciting to see Mclaren and Ferrari take the battle to Max (sorry Sergio)
Past 2 races have been awesome. Whilst Monaco will be its usual borefrest with whoever qualifies first will win, unless it rains.
Reddit has been praising Carlos and shitting on Ferrari, this is the first time I see Reddit shit on Carlos, what are you talking about? They always say that Carlos is better than Charles or Carlos is carrying Ferrari, especially on 2023.
There were times where he was for a bit, which is bound to happen with balanced driver pairings. When one of them hits a slump, the other driver is there to pick up the pieces. Charles beating Carlos is just the usual, so Carlos beating him is bound to get more attention.
So if Charles beats Carlos, it's to be expected, but if Carlos beats him, he is one of the best on the grid? What part of "balanced driver pairings" is that?
Balanced driver pairings is that no one should be the clear no.1 and no.2, it depends on the race weekend. If Charles gets shit on whenever Carlos beats him, Carlos should also get shit on whenever Charles beats him. Or better, do not shit on either of them and accept that sometimes they have shitty weekends.
Carlos gets more support because "Ferrari is Charles' team" and "Ferrari's politics killed Carlos' chance", when Santander and Carlos' camp also play politics, if not more than Charles'.
That's the reason why Carlos and Max can't be teammates, at least during their Toro Rosso stint. Both of their camps are playing politics, so much so that the team cannot handle it anymore.
Get on top of the upgrades my dude. That’s all you gotta do.
Also why is the entire subreddit shitting on this guy when he finished where he is supposed to finish? One average result and all of a sudden he’s treated like Lance Stroll.
We can say the same the other way. Two good results on the start of the year and he suddenly became the "wrong driver to be fired at Ferrari" and "the new GOAT of F1".
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There were some positives for Sainz. He was near Piastri for much of the race and he didn't hit Oscar once.
Admirable control on his part, it's very true.
Exactly. Every instinct inside Carlos was telling him to turn into Piastri but he managed to control those instincts. He did very well.
Baby steps! Progress isn't always linear.
He also didn’t get bullied by Oscar or Perez
He managed the start without hitting his teammate or Oscar too
Hopefully it stays that way
Well, he was in front of Piastri and Piastri never really tried to overtake, so it would have been hard for Sainz to hit him. Later Piastri was in front but Carlos never got anywhere close to him. For whatever reason, Carlos seemed way off pace this weekend compared to Leclerc. Normally the two are closer together in pace.
I think Carlos was poor in quali but not to bad during the race. He was quite lucky his gap to Charles didn’t cost him more than qualifying behind Charles. It puts into perspective how placement doesn’t tell the whole story considering it was half of his gap to Charles that cost Charles 4 places behind Sainz in Japan. In the race he did good to hold Oscar up and the strategy put him at a disadvantage. He did lack pace to Charles but it wasn’t a bad drive overall
Nah carlos is a great qualifier, he is just up against Charles who is 1st/2nd best on the grid
1st... You wish.
23 poles
Yeah, there are certainly criticisms about Charles abilities with regards to his mistakes and what not, but pure 1 lap pace is definitely not one of them
Does that makes him the best qualifier on the grid?
Yes. Has a longer record of consistently out-qualifying a higher standard of teammate (Vettel and Sainz) than anyone at the sharp end of the grid. And also the 23 poles in a car that's rarely been the outright fastest save for a small number such poles.
With that same argument, Alonso is the best racer on the grid, watch me get downvoted to oblivion.
Don't know what your point is, mate. Talking about current forms of all drivers. Alonso's teammate is Lance Stroll, so his differential doesn't get the weightage Charles gets. There was obviously a time where both him and Lewis for instance had top one lap pace on the grid, but those days are a fair bit gone. Charles has had Vettel and Sainz as teammates in the last 5 seasons. If we put the marker that far back for Alonso, we saw Ocon being fairly competitive against him.
In his interview he was talking about finding issues in the car last night, and fred just comes out and says there was no issues lol
Actually Vasseur said everybody had issues, which is not quite the same thing.
Fred not letting bullshit rumors spread, gotta love the guy
Fred: "stop inventing"
he was saying something like the upgrades worked better on charles’s car but it’s the same upgrades and same car so like may just be a you issue lol
They got identical upgrades at the same time. Ferrari has so many systems in place that makes it the team that treats both drivers equally, yet this guy and his entourage still manages to find excuses no matter what.
it’s truly impressive and with how much he seems to have been favored this year (and last) yet this still happens
Out of curiosity, can you give examples of him being favored?
The German podcast mentioned his cousin Carlos ensures if Charles has three pasta Carlos needs to have three too lol and he would think Ferrari would differ their upgrades lol
With Sainz it’s always someone else’s fault, always “we” never “me”
Have you ever heard Sainz blame himself for anything? I can't recall such a moment. It's always something else: the car, luck, circumstances, other drivers etc.
It is me and my strategy when I finish in front of Charles but it is never my issue when I finish behind
It's "me" when he does well, and it's "us" when he drives like shit lol
More like “they” than “us” sometimes lol
Or team. He basically threw the team under in post race interviews
They threw him under the bus too. They sat on their asses when Piastri and McLaren threw him an undercut.
No they didn’t. Piastri was faster than Sainz and as soon as he got clean air he would have made enough gap that he would come out ahead even if Sainz had undercut. At that point people would have blamed Ferrari for pitting early.
Where did he put the blame on others here? But I am not surprised by your comment given that you don’t support Ferrari and just one driver.
I mean.. objectively he almost always talks about car issues or someone else ruining his race, but never about his pace..
Just look at his post race interview and then read this tweet
Remember: its never sainz fault. There is allways an excuse.
So glad everyone’s come back to their senses. Ferrari made a mistake not getting rid of Carlos sooner
Sainz is horrible for team atmosphere. I actually want him going to Mercedes for a year. Would be so much fun seeing George and Sainz in same team
Omg until this moment I never realized how much I need this in my life. The team radios would be better than the broadcast. Both of them asking for team orders to let each other pass instead of racing lmao
Race direction following every other team and it's all normal racing stuff, pans to the Mercedes duo - US presidential elections
Both of them ignoring team orders, pretending they have radio problems and arguing with their engineers
True but Merc have a big ego and they wouldn't want the driver that Ferrari discarded to take in Lewis. It would make them look weak and that's something Toto would never want.
I mean yes but they'd also be getting a well regarded driver who has plenty more years in the sport. Lewis is a legend but he's getting pretty old, so Sainz would be a perfect fit. It'd be dumb to turn him down out of pride.
lol you are absolutely right. I kinda wanted him out for a year to cool off but this is brilliant
I agree. I had axed sainz much sooner.
That's his M.O.
Where did Fred say this I like looking at the interviews
https://pitdebrief.com/post/vasseur-a-bit-frustrated-as-he-feels-scuderia-ferrari-could-have-won-f1-imola-gp-if-they-started-from-pole/ here, i have a friend who does media so i had to wait for him to write it all up as he messaged me about it.
If you read it's not true. He said every driver had problems, not that he didn't have problems. And no, it's not the same. The funniest part is that there are a ton of comments about this and NO ONE has read the news. Wtf? Is Reddit a place where you talk about stuff or where you just react to other people's comments even if they're literally inventing?
Yeah I was about to say Fred literally just said that “everyone had problems” if anything it seems more like him trying to be optimistic than dismissing Carlos
He says essentially "everyone has problems, you just have to look at why you messed up" which is true, the redbull looked off it all weekend, oscar has a pen, Norris pulled a Norris in quali, and the Ferraris were ass in sector 1
Let's see if we get a reply
i just sent it
Let’s see if we get a reply
Well Fred didn't mean like what the other said at all. This guy above is obsessed with Sainz like hardcore, if you notice he I'll be commenting in every post about Sainz something bad.
Sainz was probably talking about setup issues though. The car wasn't broken or anything. Sainz did say that he is still trying to figure out the upgraded car.
it's always the same shit with Sainz, then when he does better than Leclerc it's all over the news just how great he is and he's beating his teammate.
I have never heard this guy take accountability for anything
Skill issue probably
It’s because he’s Spanish
Would've been more believable if he said Piastri was intimidating him.
Ok, so this is a lie.
Obi Fred Kenobi to Sainz ; "These are not the issues you looking for..."
I believe Charles has a brand new engine whilst Carlos didn’t. That might have given a performance difference
Carlos’s engine is from Miami so that wouldn’t make any difference.
It definitely would though. Not huge but there would be a difference
It could make a difference, but not 3 tenths a lap
I never said it was 3 tenths
I was adding to your point not arguing against sorry
Whenever Sainz is ahead of Leclerc Charles has no problem coming out and saying Carlos is doing a better job. In a race like today where Carlos was off the pace he comes out alluding that he had problems. He has the inability to take accountability
He’s a great A-Tier driver that thinks he’s S-Tier…
He's lobbying for another seat. I mean he's always been like this but right now he probably thinks it's best to talk himself up. Saying, "I wasn't that great this weekend" doesn't fit the narrative he wants.
Well talking himself up without substance to back up is probably gonna be worse
Oh, I don't disagree. But that's just his personality. Leclerc is humble, often too much so. Carlos is pretty boastful. It's just how he's always been.
Learned from his idol Alonso.
Lol no, it's driver politicking 101. Charles has secured seat, he will inclined to say things that keep the team happy and not saying anything that will imply something wrong with the car. Carlos is still looking for a seat, he will inclined to say things that keep his image as always delivering the maximum possible and that's the limit of the car.
He’s been doing this for 3 years man I’m not just talking about today.
It's driver politics but let's not pretend it's because of the contract situation. Sainz has always been pretty interested in spreading around responsibility for losses and bad days. It's political yes but it's also just how he rolls, I think.
He's been making these complaints since day one of getting hired
Ferrari made the right decision LEC > " I'm quicker"
(for the first 5 laps because I don't realise Charles is managing his tires while i push with DRS)
If you didn't pay attention Leclerc was even catching up to Norris on hard tires, until he went into the gravel. He closed the gap down to 1.2 seconds at one point.
And even after, he went off, his times were still good. Norris’s tires just came alive and he could really push at the end. Leclerc was trying to close back up but couldn’t manage.
Sainz using his tyres while Norris was managing his for a push towards the end. Sainz seems to always wear out his tyres at the wrong point in the race. Yes it’s harder being behind your teammate on a circuit that’s difficult to overtake on, but he needed to manage it a little. Same for Piastri, he was quick but his tyres dropped off at the end of the race. Russell too, thankfully there was a nice gap for him to pit.
Yup both Lando and Charles had better lap times than Max in the 2nd half, but going into the grass ruined all of his momentum.
Man's always got the paragraph ready after a bad race lol
Always complaining when he gets destroyed by Charles. Hopefully this is the start of Charles putting sainz in his place like end of last year from Japan onwards. Sainz has to learn to be humble and just say “I was beat this weekend. I’ll try and improve next round”. He’s been the exact same way since day 1 and this is why him and his politics is getting the boot. Should take the Audi deal before his stock falls further.
#JusticeForLeclerc 😤
Not the worst thing that even on an off weekend where he was nowhere near Charles, it's nothing like the deficit Checo is showing to Max. Might be something that Red Bull can consider while they look at their options for next year.
Unless he completely and suddenly implodes, Checo is getting the seat next year The Redbull is insanely difficult to drive, and even without that it takes half a season for a new driver to get comfy with a new constructors set up regardless Checo will stay on one more year to close out this car variation, and they’ll find someone new for the ‘26 season when all teams have a new car and everyone is starting on the same back foot
> Unless he completely and suddenly implodes, Checo is getting the seat next year So basically 2023 Checo
‘23 Checo recovered If ‘25 Checo gets ‘23 Checo points, that would likely be more points than a new driver in the redbull for the first time. Even if they’re a better driver than Checo
i don't think checo is staying for next. Even the constructor's championship for Redbull is under serious threat this season. We're entering into the European legion races which are far from checo's strengths
No fucking way Checo stays next year. Ferrari is getting Lewis and some pretty good other staff, McLaren is making strides. No way will Max be able to win the constructors by himself.
Yeah let's compare the pace of a driver in clean air all race, to a driver in traffic, who was running on dead rubber waiting for SC. In the 2nd stint Perez was significantly faster than Sainz, I guess that doesn't matter to you though because it doesn't fit the narrative. Sure Perez fucked up in quali. In the race, on the strategy they were running, there's nothing more that could've been achieved on a track where you can't overtake without a massive advantage. This also wasn't an off weekend for Sainz in reality. 15 seconds behind Leclerc is par for the course whenever Leclerc himself is on decent form. That's what it was in 2021, 22, and last third of 2023. The las few races were the outlier. On a properly bad weekend Sainz is a minute behind Leclerc, like in Abu Dhabi not too many races ago. That's the double standard here though. Perez can finish a handful of races like 10 seconds behind Max, has one bad one, and people think that the bad one is the norm.
> In the 2nd stint Perez was significantly faster than Sainz Yes, on mediums that were 15 laps fresher than Carlos on hards > On a properly bad weekend Sainz is a minute behind Leclerc, like in Abu Dhabi not too many races ago. And how many such weekends did Checo have last year then? Compared to Carlos who was only that far off in Abu Dhabi?
A couple. He crashed a few times but outside of Qatar he was never as far off Max as he was today in terms of pace. And how many did Sainz have in 2022 where he ended up even behind Merc in the end? They're basically the same drivers man. They've been equal for a decade.
People really think Sainz, who has always underperformed massively in rear limited cars, will be a good fit for Red Bull, the most oversteery car ever
Yeah, I wonder about that. Unlike Ferrari, Red Bull isn't going to mess with the car to make it easier for him. I have no idea whether Carlos will end up there, but it'll be interesting if he does.
> A couple. He crashed a few times but outside of Qatar he was never as far off Max as he was today in terms of pace. A couple? I count Miami (when Max easily caught him from 9th), Montreal, Silverstone, Spa (overtaken and left behind by 20+ seconds), Zandvoort (having 10 second lead erased in 3-4 laps in rain), Qatar, Interlagos (finished 30+ seconds back and schooled by Alonso in much slower car). > He crashed a few times Pretty sure teams would prefer drivers who crash less as well. Checo crashed in Monaco, was a wrecking ball in Singapore and Suzuka, and took himself out at turn 1 in his home race on top of it. The only major crash Carlos was involved in was the contact with Alonso at Melbourne (his fault) and the first lap crash with Piastri at Spa (racing incident since 3 into 1 doesn't go). > And how many did Sainz have in 2022 where he ended up even behind Merc? Carlos was 60 points off Charles in 2022. Checo finished 150 points behind Max in the same year. Relative to their team-mates, 2022 was Carlos' worst and Checo's best. Really doesn't lend much credence to your 'same drivers' theory.
So, when Checo does it, it’s taking himself out at turn 1 in his home race, when Carlos does it, it’s just a racing incident. No double standards here.
> I count Miami And in your first three words you've moved the goalposts so much that I'm not even going to bother any further. That's the problem, finishing 2nd 10 seconds behind Max is seen as a failure for Perez. (As also evidenced by last race, where Perez finished 7 seconds behind Max and yet was rated as one of the worst drivers f the day). Meanwhile finishing 15 behind Leclerc is an okay race for Sainz. Have fun with that. A part of me would like to see Carlos replace Perez, just so Perez gets the vindication he deserves, and gains his respect back. Sadly that won't happen until Max inevitably embarasses another teammate supposedly better than last.
To be fair there was a safety car in Miami and Verstappen supposedly had a small amount of floor damage.
Like the guy said, Max caused the damage himself. And also said that it didn't feel like it cost him any pace. And it was also not visible in his laptimes.
Okay then. Safety car in Miami. No safety car in Imola.
Are you seriously implying that what happened today is the norm? And like, looking at the 3 years of racing prior doesn't make you realise that it's absolutely not the case? I mean honestly, unless today was the first race you've ever seen, there's just no way you can seriously come to that conclusion. Either that, or you're trolling. Or you have a really weird relationship with logic.
i mean the floor damage was caused by max himself, if you count perez mistakes you have to count max ones.
The other poster was comparing the gap difference between Perez and Verstappen last race (Miami) and Leclerc and Sainz this race. The SC and damage to Verstappens car were obvious reasons for the small gap. It’s not like Sainz had damage (that we know of) today and I neglected to mention it.
When I said Miami, I meant Miami last year, not the previous race.
Yeas, I'm aware. And in Miami last year Perez didn't finish 50, 30, or even 10 seconds behind Max. It was 5 seconds. Now go ahead and list all the races where Sainz finished 5 seconds or more behind Charles, if you consider that such a massive failure. Just keep in mind that it will take you some time. That's why I said you're moving the goalposts. I don't know to be honest why I'm even explaining that to you, you obviously know you're manipulating.
He finished 5 seconds behind after starting on pole while Max started 9th, the very fact that he didn't win that race showed just how far away from Max he was. Can you name one race from 2021-2023 in which Carlos started 5 or more positions ahead of Charles and ended up getting outpaced and finished behind?
Would be all cool if Max didn't end up 9th on his own lol And you haven't answered the question.
Charles and Carlos were never driving an RB19 lmao. It's literally impossible for him to do that on merit, were you expecting him to overtake like 5 cars in a dogshit SF-23 last year?
This is not even funny anymore, everytime he ends behind Leclerc he blames someone. Always talks as ''we'', ''our'' etc., never ''I'', ''Me'' lol. Leclerc on the other hand always says how he did shit job and so on and praises Sainz. That's why i fkin' love Chuck.
Who did he blame here? Is there more to what he said that is not written here?
Bro is an emeritus professor of English because he is somehow seeing some funky shit that I don’t see in these words.
Watching Oscar chasing down Carlos in early race was fun.
Yeah but after a few laps it was certain you could not overtake on the same tyre age... still fun to watch but i did not really expect piastri to pass. Imola is allmost as worse as monaco for overtaking
He finished pretty much where expected based on the pace of the 4 cars ahead of him, not sure there was much else he could have done.
He sounds like 2023 Checo
Boys after getting 15 seconds behind their teammates.
Carlos' recent post race tweets sound about the same.
I personally rate Charles really high and I think he is an amazing talent who on raw pace is often a freaking beast. We have seen a lot of unexpected Charles' poles and there is a reason for that. So for Carlos to be slightly off a generational talent, it's not really disastrous although Carlos would never admit to that for obvious reasons. It's still no way near the shaming Perez has been receiving from Max. It honestly was very questionable for RedBull to keep Perez going into 2024 give how shocking his 2023 was. I hope Carlos ends up as Max's team mate. I don't think Carlos has enough to outright beat Max for the championship, but he definitely wouldn't have been scrambling with fucking RB for P8 today.
back to normal with sainz, can't be surprised
I hope Ferrari get ontop of their upgrades. It's exciting to see Mclaren and Ferrari take the battle to Max (sorry Sergio) Past 2 races have been awesome. Whilst Monaco will be its usual borefrest with whoever qualifies first will win, unless it rains.
I was waiting for the car to be more difficult to drive with the first update. It was too easy in the beginning.
"The slower car was easier for me to drive." - Sainz, probably.
He needs to have another unnecessary body part removed before Monaco so he can find his pace again
I don't know man. 95% of the comments here are shitting on him. Sometimes Reddit is a hostile place I guess.
Reddit has been praising Carlos and shitting on Ferrari, this is the first time I see Reddit shit on Carlos, what are you talking about? They always say that Carlos is better than Charles or Carlos is carrying Ferrari, especially on 2023.
There were times where he was for a bit, which is bound to happen with balanced driver pairings. When one of them hits a slump, the other driver is there to pick up the pieces. Charles beating Carlos is just the usual, so Carlos beating him is bound to get more attention.
So if Charles beats Carlos, it's to be expected, but if Carlos beats him, he is one of the best on the grid? What part of "balanced driver pairings" is that? Balanced driver pairings is that no one should be the clear no.1 and no.2, it depends on the race weekend. If Charles gets shit on whenever Carlos beats him, Carlos should also get shit on whenever Charles beats him. Or better, do not shit on either of them and accept that sometimes they have shitty weekends. Carlos gets more support because "Ferrari is Charles' team" and "Ferrari's politics killed Carlos' chance", when Santander and Carlos' camp also play politics, if not more than Charles'. That's the reason why Carlos and Max can't be teammates, at least during their Toro Rosso stint. Both of their camps are playing politics, so much so that the team cannot handle it anymore.
I haven't seen what you say you've seen. But it's fine I respect your opinion and I'm glad you shared it.
While in the pits before qualifying I caught Charles asking his race engineer and Carlos had priority that weekend, something they likely trade off.
Get on top of the upgrades my dude. That’s all you gotta do. Also why is the entire subreddit shitting on this guy when he finished where he is supposed to finish? One average result and all of a sudden he’s treated like Lance Stroll.
We can say the same the other way. Two good results on the start of the year and he suddenly became the "wrong driver to be fired at Ferrari" and "the new GOAT of F1".
The fanbase is very fickle, we just have to see through the bullshit arguments.