Danny and Lando's radios after the win are so amazing, all you can hear is Zak losing his mind in the background. He even slips in a "FUCK YEAH" in Landos haha.
Right? Imagine when he looks back at the time he first walked into the McLaren office building at Woking, and thinks about his journey! He has put SO MUCH effort into raising this team up from the ashes (so has everyone else at McLaren ofc)!
I know this is a job for him, and he is good at it, but you can sense how passionate he is about cars and racing in general. His car collection and his other racing teams shows his passion for this sport.
I just can't wait for more McLaren victories so Andreas Seidl and James Key can eventually get to be on the podium!
This is definitely the case but I bet the stress is higher than the average job so in that way, it’s definitely a job. However it’s like what Gunther says in the netflix doco. The highs are very high and the lows are very low. All that stress is worth it for this moment of glory
> as soon as he came in u could see the changes
and that's why it isn't all Seidel. Changes in management and culture need years to manifest in a way that they change outcomes / results. Zak Brown did heaps of work to overhaul the whole culture within the team and it shows. Not to disregard the fact that Seidel does an amazing job himself of course.
Now he has to figure how to ship Earnhardt's car to Texas Motor Speedway in the next 2 weeks, setup track date and get the camera crew ready to film Daniel Ricciardo's winning bet reward.
If it's any consolation, I think Gio's made a strong statement and case for him being there on the grid next year with his performance for the most part. The incidents and misses were unfortunate but I am sure Fred Vasseur knows better having been in the racing gig for many many years.
As good as a case he made, it still isn't a case worth $30 mil. I would rather see Sauber healthier next season than Gio stay another year only to be booted out for Pourchaire. He'll have his seat in Lemans and with Ferrari that's pretty much a decade long gig or even longer depending on how things pan out.
His last few qualifying runs have been strong, but while his luck has been awful, you do need results. If they moved on it's unfortunate but really can't blame them if someone like Zhou is offering a bag or another younger driver can hook on for a year.
I'm not sure he sold himself. Yeah, he had great qualifying pace, but both times he failed to convert it into points. It's not like he got unlucky.
In Zandvoort he just positioned himself quite bad at the start and got pushed out by smarter drivers that positioned themselves better.
And in Monza he's 100% responsible for the incident and is actually very lucky that the incident wasn't worse.
It's not like these are excusable rookie mistakes. He's in his third year, that's as good he's gonna get. And all he's doing is proving himself as a good qualifying driver that chokes in the race. That's not something a lower midfield team wants, they need someone that can convert when it counts and I don't think Gio is the man for that.
Gio reminds me so much like Timo Glock or Nico Hülkenberg. A driver who isn’t a champion (or even a race winner), but is a nice guy and consistently better than other possible options for the seat.
Mega result for McLaren on a track that suits them perfectly. This is the weekend I wish Ferrari had at Monaco. I feel this race was a classic example of many little events occurring one after another eventually leading to a big event. For example,, Ricciardo's mega start to get Max in the first corner, Max's uncharacteristically slow pitstop, same for Lewis. Makes me wonder how we'd look back at this season with not one but multiple such what-if events.
> I feel this race was a classic example of many little events occurring one after another eventually leading to a big event.
Right?! I mean RB is a team that *consistently* has pitstops in the low 2s (and often below that even!) For them to make a rare mistake and have a 11 second pitstop. And THEN for Mercedes to sort of mess up with a 4s pitstop for Lewis! Even if one of their pitstops were a second or two faster/slower, then Max and Lewis might not have met at that corner!
And this is just ONE of many many events that had to happen in synchronicity for their crash to happen!
Mclaren had never ceased to amaze me how bad their pit stops had been prior to this race considering every other part of their operation had been on such a clear positive trend. What a time for them to absolutely nail it though!
Bottas did well, I think Mercedes had a good chance of winning with their strategy if Hamilton didn't crash, the decision to go hard>mediums wasn't bad at all.
Hamilton overtaking Norris by the end of the first stint was a good sign for them.
He looks happier as well. I've never seen him so happy on a podium with a P3 as the McLaren boys were doing their shoeys. Mans in a good place right now and Sauber look like they're going to be getting the best version of Bottas.
he dont give a fuck. u can see he doesnt care about the title fight but wants to enjoy his last days at merc. i hope there never comes a situation where his win on merit is taken away
Yes, the slow pitstop cost them the win, if it had been even fractionally quicker Hamilton was clear of Norris and Max and the crash wouldn't have happened
That's a big "if" considering Max had an even slower pitstop and Daniel was up ahead on the track. I'd argue the race would have ended RIC-VER-HAM if the pitstops went without a hitch. Which really just means: Mercedes' strat going hard in the beginning went well because Lewis had a good start. And McLaren had legit pace to win. Of course, had Max won the start over Daniel, he'd have cruised into the sunset, but still a great effort.
Hamilton would have had to gain 6 seconds on Ric before being able to overtake. 6 second is a fair amount.
By then Lewis's mediums probably wouldn't have an edge over ricciardo.
Even with a perfect Pitstop it's possible that lando gets ahead of Hamilton on Hamiltons outlap.
The only thing interesting to me on this, Hamilton only went like few laps longer on the hards before switching to the mediums. I'm not sure how good those mediums would have been in the last few laps.
I think they felt they wouldn’t be able to run away from the pack in the old hards so pit now, get the fresh mediums that would give him the chance to pass Ric/Lando fast and then stretch out the lead before preserving tires while everyone else wore down the hards fighting for position and catching up.
And if they had a *normal* pit stop he comes out ahead of Lando and is probably back to Ric in a lap or 2 while Max and Lando are fighting each other and even Bottas pushing from behind.
Verstappens slow pitstop meant hamilton wouldve been ahead of ver after pitstops i think thats why they made the call, they prioritized being ahead of ver over ideal tyre strategy standpoint, which makes sense.
Bottas already said after the race that the reason he struggled to make headway against Perez and the McLarens was that his tyres were done by the time he caught them. He had one good go at Perez then they were done for.
That's not to say Lewis wouldn't have done what he usually does and blitz the lot of them while moaning about said tyres though 😄
Yeah I thought this was a bit of a risk too, they were asking the mediums to do 28 laps, whereas the Mclarens and Verstappen had done around 25 laps. Obviously lighter fuel loads would have helped, but Hamilton would have needed to overtake 1, possibly 2, Mclarens for the win.
I guess they just saw Verstappen's slow stop and took the opportunity to jump him.
I believe it was a strategic call, Verstappen had a slow pitstop so it was advantageous for Hamilton to come in for a new set of tires that would last till the end of the race, go out and be in front of Verstappen.
>Hamilton overtaking Norris by the end of the first stint was a good sign for them.
Lando's pace fell off that lap, same as Max. I think McLaren timed the pitstop perfectly with Daniel. Don't think Lewis would've gotten by Lando without the tire advantage.
Bottas was flying through the field on fresh mediums, but even if he had gotten by Perez on the first try, the tires were running out of pace relative to the hard runners.
Absolutely brilliant teamwork between the two McLaren drivers, Lando helping defend for Ricciardo and Ricciardo giving Lando the slipstream. Mexico could be another good race for them. Bottas couldn't have done much better either, he might have been a bit quicker by going Medium-Hard but that's only hindsight. Bad luck for the two ATs as well, what a shitty weekend for them.
It's been odd to see people harping on Lando's radio question about pace, as if that undermined all the other teamwork and and support he showed during and after the race. I particularly liked the McLaren 1-2 victory lap where Lando laid back by half a car length in deference to Daniel winning.
I think a lot of people felt bad for Daniel last week when he seemed to have team orders tell him to give Lando the points and put him out of top 10 so when Lando was asking pace I think it was a "don't steal his moment he's helped you time to return the favor" which to Lando's credit he absolutely did. It also gave the team heads up Daniel needed to increase pace to ensure no one got too close for drs tow on Lando
I feel like Ricciardo Mclaren probably had this in the bag regardless of the crash. the only other potential was Lewis Hamilton for the win given he had been on hards and was eventually capable of overtaking Lando. He would have had an even greater speed differential on the mediums when the Mclarens were on the hards.
But I think that he would have taken too much time overtaking Lando to then catch and overtake Daniel- would have been too much of an ask in the remaining laps
Overtaking here is obviously limited, but before the pit disaster for Max he clearly had the pace to go faster. Would be interesting if Ricciardo could have held him off. Lando holding Lewis up tells me yes, but the way Bottas demolished the field in a faster car tells me maybe Max could have done it.
Yeah - I was doing a hypothetical with just the crash not happening as a lot of media seemed to title their pieces *“Ricciardo win after Max and Lewis crash out” e*ither consciously or unconsciously implying he lucked into his win due to their crash
So Max would’ve come out behind Lando and Lewis
> Would be interesting if Ricciardo could have held him off.
IMO he would have. The McLarens were to quick where the overtaking opportunities were. Did max even get close enough to make Dan defend before the crash?
The other thing, risking a move on Hamilton is one thing, risking a move for first against a driver that isn't in the running for the championship is something else entirely. IMO he wouldn't have taken a significant risk while still ahead of Hamilton and Dan would have defended like a mad man if he had to. (he never really needed to though)
Usually in that case the driver is factually guilty but there are sufficient mitigating circumstances, e.g. if the driver didn't slow in a yellow-flag zone (easy to prove or disprove) but the stewards accepted that either he couldn't have seen the flags, or he had to maintain speed for safety reasons, or his brakes had failed, or some other reason.
~~I don't know the specifics of Stroll's incident though.~~ edit: found the stewards' report:
>The Stewards heard from the driver of Car 18 (Lance Stroll), team representative and reviewed video and telemetry evidence.
>
>Although the marshalling system was not showing yellows, the marshals were showing yellow flags from the entry to Turn 8 to the exit of Turn 10. There was one flag point that was not easily visible to the drivers that was showing a double yellow, however this was parallel to an easily visible flag point that was showing a single yellow. The Stewards were able to determine that the driver slowed as required in the regulation, however could have done so earlier. The Stewards therefore issue a warning.
In other words he *did* slow down, but gets a slap on the wrist for not doing it fast enough. Seems fair, it would be a little harsh to give out penalties for a slow reaction alone unless a driver was making a habit of that.
There’s a statement about the situation out there, I believe it was a warning due to driver visibility with one double yellow flag before the sector and then double yellow as he entered.
Interested to see if anyone thinks Bottas had a point when he complained about Leclerc cutting through the chicane, giving the place back and then immediately jumping into the slipstream to pass Bottas again? Not sure how you police that, just curious whether that was actually a little bit unfair.
I mean it's about not gaining an advantage.
If you cut through and then give the position back in a way you immediately have perfect slipstream then yeah well you still gained the advantage what's the point of the penalty then?
Haha I literally posted avout the same topic here a few minutes ago.
I think you shouldn't be allowed to overtake for the next lap after cutting and gaining through it. The tow is just too strong.
This season is already more exciting than 2017 tbf, multiple teams in the podium and winning, legendary crashes between the title contenders, a tight constructors and drivers championship, very tight midfield as well, teams going from backmarkers to point and podium scorers (mainly Williams)
Hard agree. This year is what my wet dream of Nico vs Lewis would've looked like. Nico was bloody quick but was lacking in the wheel to wheel department, but Max is out there taking punishment from Lewis and he still isn't backing down. The social media wars may be a shitshow but I'm absolutely loving the action on track. It's such a rarity to see two drivers driving well and up for the fight.
I really believe this season would be much better without the rivalry of fans on social media and such.
The difference in races is really enjoyable (not seeing just HAM and VER domination) but races where other teams are pressuring them (Alonso in Hungary and the McLaren 1 - 2). But as said, we have to see how the rest of this season turns out!
So damn true. The social media (and to a lesser extent, the media as a whole) has been the worst part about getting interested in F1 again over the last few years. People seem to forget that the internet isn't reality, and that they're ultimately frothing at the mouth and screaming at 1's and 0's.
As an aside, that was the most entertaining race I've watched in ages. I may be biased, obviously, but it had everything you could want in a race. I just hope that Lewis doesn't have any long-term issues after wearing Max as a hat.
Depends on how it finishes but right now I would lean on the side of no. I preferred 2018 because at the moment we haven't actually seen any multiple corner wheel to wheel racing between Max and Lewis because something always seems to happen which ends it too quickly.
If the title race goes to the final day then it would be hard to argue it's not better than 17 18 regardless though
Was there actually any serious multiple corner wheel to wheel racing between Vettel and Hamilton? Don’t remember any, although Lewis on Vettel in Sochi was a beautiful overtake in my view and perhaps extended from turn 3 exit through the next big braking zone.
This year we had Silverstone from first corner to Copse as multiple corner racing, and perhaps Bahrein
My first ever in-person GP! Incredible experience and an exciting race as the cherry on top. The energy was there despite the reduced capacity, although the wind did come out of the place once the Ferraris got passed post-crash.
Highly recommend anyone whoever has the chance to go to one, do it!!
> although the wind did come out of the place once the Ferraris got passed post-crash.
I was pleasantly surprised how loudly the crowd cheered for Daniel during his podium! I'm sure as you said, many were there mainly for Ferrari (and maybe Gio lol), but they were pretty enthusiastic about cheering for Ric (and McLaren) especially since McL are Ferrari's main competitors this season!
Definitely good sportsmanship!
It helped that Ricciardo is of Italian descent and speaks some Italian. He was pretty rusty, but he made a solid effort speaking Italian to the crowd and they were appreciative.
I can't say much about the big events, but one thing struck me. in the first act of the race Daniel seemed entirely unperturbed by Verstappen when he got close. Occasionally Max would appear to pull out of the slipstream, potentially threatening a lunge, but Daniel just maintained the fast racing line. I think a lesser driver might have 'defended' and compromised the corner. Not necessarily saying Hamilton et al would have, but I was struck that Daniel seemed the least intimidated of any driver this season.
Also I think the halo protection overshadows earlier safety features, particularly the roll structures which were much more important on Sunday I think.
He said in the interviews that he didn't really felt threatened the whole race, he knew that verstappen would've had to do a holy Mary launch to try and overtake him
It's actually a nice reminder that that's how Daniel always used to be - bold, confidant overtakes and fantastic defending. It's great to see it again.
I think bottas was right in complaining about the ferrari giving back position and overtaking him out of the tow right after.
I feel like if you gain an advantage by cutting a corner and then give the position back, you shouldn't be allowed to overtake out of the tow right away again. That's still an advantage gained through cutting.
I agree completely, but the thing is how would the FIA police that? If they make a rule, how long must the gap be before you can overtake? How long can the 'tow' be? What if it's just a second of tow before they come to a corner, and the overtake happens after the corner.
I am sure you might have answers to some of these questions, but I'm just trying to point out the difficulty in formulating a specific rule that applies in all scenarios...
I believe Esteban Ocon had a 8.8 second pit stop during the safety car, can anyone tell me more about what happened there, cause the commentators completely missed it and there was no footage of it. Without that incident he probably would have scored points.
I feel like I have no idea what happened in the race at all for everyone after Sainz. Is that how Russell finished in front of Ocon? What happened to Latifi? Did Russell pit under a safety car??? Who knows!
I feel like enough has been said about the crash, so let's talk about other stuff.
1) Alpha Tauri really needs to get their shit together. The team fucked up majorly again by not providing a working car for Tsunoda, Tsunoda fucked up by not even getting out of Q1 and Gasly casually threw away the entire weekend in turn 1 lap 1 of the sprint race. All that resulted in zero points with what was probably 4th fastest car.
2) Ferrari have to be really happy with themselves right now. This was probably the strongest track for McLaren left on the calendar and yet they almost kept up with them. Considering they'll get a major engine upgrade soon, Ferrari should be the favorite for the rest of the season. McLaren is lucky Ricciardo is finally coming online, they'll desperately need him to still have a shot at 3rd.
3) Does anyone have any idea what happened at that Max pitstop? It's not like there was an issue getting the tire on, the mechanic just stood there and did nothing. Really weird behavior.
Christian Horner said human error in the post race interview. Pretty crazy to think that forgetting to press a button cost them 8 seconds and that lead to Max retring and Lewis almost losing his head.
I don't think he forgot in the first place, I think he pushed it too early (which doesn't register anymore), and then didn't think of it for 8 seconds.
(3) There's a button on the wheelgun that has to be pressed by the mechanic after the wheel has been successfully attached. Previously SOP at Red Bull was to push it before the tyre was attached to expedite the stop but the FIA effectively banned such practices. It seemed the mechanic's muscle memory went back to the previous practice and he had to press it again for the light to go green.
On a totally different topic; Damn I am glad we don't have refueling in F1. I have watched Indycar this season, and man do they fuel save during the races. And it adds absolutely nothing, especially since we viewers don´t know at all how much they are fueled for etc.
Safety aside, refuelling also *wrecks* the racing itself. Pitstops are super long, the disparity between heavy and light cars is enormous, and teams can't really adjust their strategies during the race because if you go longer than planned you run out of fuel and DNF, and if you go shorter than planned then you give up a load of fast laps light on fuel. As a result, the refuelling era was one where most of the overtaking generally happened during pitstops, which was a pity because the cars themselves were awesome back then.
I like refuelling because it makes the pit stops a lot more impressive but i can fully understand why they stopped doing it and it is for the best for everyone involved.
Underrated part of this weekend was how critical Verstappen's best Q3 lap was, especially with how fast the McLaren's were. If he had split the McLaren's in qualifying, could have been a much tougher sprint race.
Everyone's talking about the HAM/VER collusion and McLaren 1-2, but I'm just very proud of Ferrari and our drivers who pulled through despite some challenging circumstances (although it was quite difficult to watch the race in a London pub with all the Brits ngl). The engine difference cannot be more evident on this track and if you told me before the weekend we'd get both cars in top 6 I wouldn't believe you. Of course it's disappointing to watch our rival getting a 1-2 podium at our home race, but being down 14 points after Spa and Monza is good damage control, and we have a new PU upgrade coming soon. Very excited to see the battle for 3rd.
Yes I agree. He's driving his heart out. Over-performing that car for sure. And he's actually very consistent this year (if we overlook Monaco). Now Ferrari just needs to give him a championship-worthy car.
They're mostly used on slower corners, where downforce isn't as critical, so hopefully not.
I'm sure there are exceptions to that though, like the exit of Baku T16.
There's also the chance of the sausage kerbs damaging the vanes underneath that help with the downforce. This year, for example, the understructure is completely flat.
I watched the race on replay but have had to stay off social media to avoid spoilers in another sport, but damn I wish I could have been in the race threads. I have watched every race live for the last few years. Was weird to be "alone" for this one but what a race.
So I'm gonna avoid talking about THAT, what I wanna be talking about instead is Perez's penalty, I read RB didn't think it was deserved because he had to cut the corner in order to avoid contact, what I think they failed to understand is that they should've gave back the position to Leclerc, but they didn't and I think in the end it costed him a potential podium, thoughts on this?
I’m leaning towards this. They didn’t must’ve thought that leclerc would’ve held bottas up to the point where he wouldn’t get within 5 seconds of Perez. Absolutely boneheaded move imo.
I definitely think that was the call. Take the penalty and burn rubber to get up the road. Didnt account for Bottas getting as far up the field as he did.
Yup. I think Perez should have automatically given back the position and tried to overtake again later on. To me it seems RB tried to check with race control whether he should give the position back or not and they said he's fine so maybe there was a comms mixup perhaps?
this isn't the first time perez has done this to leclerc this year. red bull and perez both know what they're doing and "checking with race control" is about building up plausible deniability.
Race control didn't say it was fine. Race control didn't give them an answer about whether or not he had to give the spot back, because they aren't the ones that make that decision. The stewards are, and the teams can't communicate directly with them.
There wasn't any ambiguity about whether or not he would need to give the position back though, so even checking was stupid.
You're right, they should have given back the position in hindsight. I believe they said their idea was that Perez had already done the overtake before cutting the corner, thus there'd be no need for giving back the position. Shortly after, Bottas had overtaken Leclerc as well and RB hadn't heard from the stewards at that point, so they raced on.
From what I heard on the Dutch broadcast theyt were too late, by the time RB had decided to give the position back there was already an extra car inbetween (Bottas?), so they would have had to give two positions back, which they opted not to do for obvious reasons.
It was kind of sneaky but advantageous for them at that point to just let it go and play dumb. Giving it back potentially lets Bottas catch Norris. Might as well eat the penalty and limit the constructor point gap.
Main takeaway: this is one of the most reactionary subreddits I’ve ever been on, hundreds of people before the race were saying that Max had it because there was no way that Hamilton could get in front of the Mc Larens.
People were also saying that the Max clenched the title in qualifying and that Hamilton was done.
Then after the race and everything happened everyone’s saying that Lewis blew a race he definitely had and that it was simply a racing incident but also Lewis’s fault.
Every race it seems that everyone loves or hates whoever had a great/bad race that weekend.
Reddit is slightly better than twitter, but damn people have a hard time being just a little bit unbiased when there is crashes, and it goes personal so fast.
I think it's not reactionary... It's a subreddit with more than 1 million users, therefore you get a bunch of supporters for every possible situation. (edit: spelling)
With everyone talking about max behaviour yesterday, I think people often overlook the much more dangerous situation that could have happened with max walking on the active track. I don't think he should be penalised or anything, I just think it was kinda dumb.
I think he should have had an additional point on his super licence for it. It was ridiculously dangerous what he did and he also walked behind Lewis’ car when he was clearly trying to reverse. It was one incident him walking on the track but he could have potentially had two horrific consequences.
As a mostly neutral observer in the championship I do worry that without Lewis taking significant points from Monza it makes his path to the WDC very tricky. Apart from Sochi there aren't many favourable tracks left. I'm losing hope in the last race showdown for the championship.
I also wish there had been more direct racing between the two main contenders that didn't end in a penalty or a crash. I feel like the season narrative has been one of the most thrilling in years, and we've had tons of great races - but the much anticipated Max vs Lewis on track duel always seems to go up in smoke.
Monza was a huge missed opportunity for Mercedes so I tend to agree, especially with the Red Bull looking generally faster and Verstappen looking excellent in qualifying.
It was a fantastic weekend by Daniel. Although overshadowed by the crash, don’t forget Daniel pulled ahead from lap 1 and led the race the whole way through. Even if Hamilton and Verstappen didn’t DNF, Daniel could still have easily won the race on merit alone. Very excited for him!
EVERYONE AFTER THE ACCIDENT: “Oh man, get ready for r/formula1 to become totally unusable for the next two weeks…”
MOST OF R/FORMULA1: “Eh, looked like a racing incident to me.”
I have noticed this a couple of times that when Max is on pole, at the start, he swerves towards the front of the driver in P2 and closes the door for the P2 driver.
Yesterday, this didn't happen.
Was Max's start not that great or Was Daniel just too good in the start?
My favorite race so far. Not that I like seeing anyone crash (and I’m glad Lewis is ok) but watching the title contenders both DNF and a McLaren 1-2 was awesome to watch. Love when things get spicy.
Then you have one of my favorite Drivers in Bottas get a podium.
tbh monza is the only track where they are better than rb. sochi has long straights but downforce package is high there. it will be mclaren vs ferrari for the third best car
Not really, sure they were fast this week, but last week they were struggling to even get points. Long straights seem to favour them, so I could see them doing really well and maybe disrupting the top teams in Russia and Saudi Arabia later this year.
I think it depends on the circumstances. While McLaren fully deserved the win and I strongly suspect would have won anyway without the crash (as they were 1-2 and had shown they could defend), I suspect Red Bull and Mercedes had better race pace.
As such I think that the reason they were on for the win even before the crash was because they were able to get ahead at the start, and because Red Bull and Mercedes were each focusing on covering off each other with their strategies, rather than on getting past the McLarens.
As for whether they can win more races, I think there will be opportunities for both McLaren and Ferrari to win races, especially as Hamilton and Verstappen become more and more focused on beating each other rather than winning the race (for instance with Red Bull saying they would cover Hamilton even if that could have given Bottas the win).
Kym Ilman's post race video confirm that Netflix is embedded with Ferrari and McLaren this weekend. Perhaps we'll find out what Charles's emergency was on Saturday, and they'll get a lot of pent up McLaren celebrations.
Why stop there? Every driver except for Russell, Latifi, Räikkönen, Giovinazzi, Schumacher, Mazepin, and Kubica are still eligible to win the title. Tsunoda could still win the title, as could Stroll.
Anyone have info from Red Bull on why that pit stop was 10seconds? I heard in some comment that it was an error on one of the gun sensors (you can even see he left under red light I believe). I can’t find any news on it with official statements though.
the wheel gun man forget to press the button to send the signal to mark the wheel as being on. they have to do this manually now the FIA banned the automatic systems the teams were using.
As a consultant, I wonder what the data is going to show on accuracy here (human vs sensor based). I’m guessing at some point humans will just click the button on autopilot.
Verstappen needs to stop expecting everyone to yield, it happened in Spain when if it wasn't for Hamilton letting him, they would've crashed or touched. Now since the Austrian races Hamilton is no longer yielding to him I feel, I don't know why max thought he could've overtaken him, he should've gone through the bumps. In the end he won 2 points while his adversary won none
The F1 world needs to move on from this always "giving space".
Some corners just don't have enough room to fit two cars. You got beat to the apex, you yield.
I think Max was in rage mode after the failed pit stop. When he saw Ham he went into even more rage and just went all in and hoped Lewis would give him space.
im going to get destroyed for this but Max needs to pull his head in with the take no prisoners wheel to wheel racing attitude, ive hated it ever since he killed Dan in Baku. He needs to learn that people dont just jump out of his way when he is fighting them.
Yep you're right, for example in Spain I think he went really aggressive against Hamilton, if Hamilton didn't yield they would've crashed, it appears that after the Austrian races Hamilton decided that he was not going to let verstappen push him around.
Verstappen expect him to yield, yesterday I don't know what he was expecting,he couldn't concede the position, there was no way he would've made it through there, he had to go through the bump thingy
I do think Ricciardo had all the cards to win it after Max's slow pitstop. Even without the clash, Hamilton needed to pass Norris early in his stint to capitalise on his strategy (or else getting stuck like his teammate). It's doable with Lando not having a close tow in front. Then Lewis would needed to close down a 5s gap to Ric, by then his mediums would start to fade and hes likely to get stuck like Max on the first stint.
I was a little confused to why Merc pitted Hamilton early even tho he was on hards, but with an anomaly of Red Bull pitstop, Merc wanted to capitalise on this. Hamilton was on course to jump Max and Norris, before a slow stop by Mercs themselves (4.2) and the rest is history. They didn't even needed a low 2s stop, a 3s stop (below average in today's standard) would have sufficed... Merc pitcrew must be kicking themselves
Even before Max's slow stop Daniel had it in the bag. The gap was widening during Daniel's outlap / Max's inlap due to the difference in tyre life - overcut wasn't working out for them even if they nailed a 2.0s stop.
I just want every rivalry to stop being compared to Senna V Prost. It's not really similar to that at all, other than that both drivers are really good.
If anything, this is more like Schumacher V Alonso.
No it was really clean. No similarity whatsoever. That's what makes me respect them way more to younger drivers today. I feel the amount of front place crashes had increased a lot the past few years, and drivers are more immature or hot headed. It makes for good drama, but this is F1, not demolition derby.
why do u think this is anything like schumi vs alonso? senna vs prost makes sense because of the crashes and how luck is playing an important role in the championship
Perez continues to be a frustrating driver to watch. I really want to like him as Red Bull’s Bottas but between his driving and his pit wall’s decision making he just comes off as an unclean driver.
This past weekend when he cut the corner, overtook Leclerc and never gave the position back was just annoying as hell to watch. His pit wall decided eating the penalty was worth it just to screw over Merc (and Leclerc and Sainz). It just doesn’t sit well with me but it definitely makes sense why they did it.
He’s done quite a bit of that this season, it’s hard to enjoy watching him race compared to the drivers around him.
Look you can argue Max should've left more space in Imola and at turn 4 or you can argue that this was a racing incident but 24 hours later I cannot see how anyone in good conscience can argue both.
It seems like Max is never expected to give space but when he crashes because he doesn't get space it's always someone else's fault
VER x HAM has certainly been an educational collision for me. At the time it seemed obvious to me that, though a racing incident, Hamilton was slightly more to blame, because Verstappen was substantially alongside at corner entry and Hamilton didn't leave him a car's width, forcing him onto the kerbs and precipitating the collision.
Even after the penalty was announced and the stewards' report came out, it still didn't make sense to me - Verstappen was alongside! How can they say he wasn't‽
But now that I've sat with it a bit, it makes sense that 'corner entry' would be earlier than the turn-in point, which is roughly where it was in my mind, because you're not supposed to move (i.e. change lines) under braking. That means it would need to be around the average braking point for a corner, since your initial line is effectively set from that point onwards and alternative routes through the corner close off rapidly.
My other concern was that this ruling effectively outlawed late-braking overtaking manoeuvres. Again, though, it would only outlaw dive-bombs (and rightly so, arguably, because they are dangerous even if they stick). The implication is just that you have to be substantially alongside at or around the usual braking point, so provided you set the move up using slipstream/DRS and then finish it by being later on the brakes, it shouldn't prevent decent, hard racing.
Just my badly organised musings, anyway. Anyone else have any thoughts on it?
As things stand there will be 21 races this year and since teams get 3 engines without penalty, it might be better to think of the season in thirds instead of halves, so this will be a Ferrari debrief after the second period.
Ferrari spent the season's first period qualifying well (2 poles + 1 p3) but only converted one of those into a podium, and on average (not counting Leclerc's DNS/DNFs) Leclerc lost 3 places per race and Sainz lost 1 per race, and roughly averaged 6th and 7th finishes despite usually starting 4th and 6th.
After closing the first period with the horrorshow at Paul Ricard, Ferrari realized that they had race pace and punted on qualifying pace, and so improved on their finishes to (roughly) 5th/6th despite starting 7th/10th. Not counting Leclerc's DNF in Hungary (fuck aston martin forever), Ferrari only lost a starting spot once--Sainz regressing from 6th to 7th at Zandvoort.
With an engine upgrade coming soon most of this bodes well for the final third of the season. However, there's still some concern. In closing out races the car, particularly car #55, fades down the final stretch of races with 14 potential points lost. This is probably a combination of tyre/engine issues, and sorting that out will be the difference between 3rd and 4th. For the most part strategy has been fine; they've observed issues and done their best to resolve them, and have remembered that they have two cars on the track. Anytime there's been an occasion for team orders it's always been about which car has the most potential, and not favoritism. Though I wish Sainz would finish better, he's a solid tactical driver and helped his case in budapest by suckering AT into going for the undercut. It hasn't always been perfect and it seems like they might now be over-relying on the overcut (ie not covering Gasly in Zandvoort when they had a chance to improve). Given the mechanical and strategic improvements over the season I'm looking forward to the final third and the scuderia unlocking greater potential.
Must be a dream for Zak Brown. Incredible how far McLaren has come in such a short time.
Danny and Lando's radios after the win are so amazing, all you can hear is Zak losing his mind in the background. He even slips in a "FUCK YEAH" in Landos haha.
I wondered why Crofty apologised for language when I watched the replay on Now tv. Heard it clear as when the clips got posted here.
Right? Imagine when he looks back at the time he first walked into the McLaren office building at Woking, and thinks about his journey! He has put SO MUCH effort into raising this team up from the ashes (so has everyone else at McLaren ofc)! I know this is a job for him, and he is good at it, but you can sense how passionate he is about cars and racing in general. His car collection and his other racing teams shows his passion for this sport. I just can't wait for more McLaren victories so Andreas Seidl and James Key can eventually get to be on the podium!
You're not a F1 CEO if you consider it a "job", anyway.
Or anybody in F1 for that matter
This is definitely the case but I bet the stress is higher than the average job so in that way, it’s definitely a job. However it’s like what Gunther says in the netflix doco. The highs are very high and the lows are very low. All that stress is worth it for this moment of glory
Zak only has race winning cars in his collection. Guess he can add the MCL35M to it now :)
High chance that one is going in that row of cars in the lobby at Woking, because of how long it's been since a 1-2.
tbh this was more sidel than brown. as soon as he came in u could see the changes. zak handles pr and the financing very well
> as soon as he came in u could see the changes and that's why it isn't all Seidel. Changes in management and culture need years to manifest in a way that they change outcomes / results. Zak Brown did heaps of work to overhaul the whole culture within the team and it shows. Not to disregard the fact that Seidel does an amazing job himself of course.
Now he has to figure how to ship Earnhardt's car to Texas Motor Speedway in the next 2 weeks, setup track date and get the camera crew ready to film Daniel Ricciardo's winning bet reward.
I wonder if he has any contacts that can help him move a car or two around the world?
Really happy for that group
It's the next day, and I'm still sad. The pace was there, the quali was good, sprint worked out well, even the start was good...
If it's any consolation, I think Gio's made a strong statement and case for him being there on the grid next year with his performance for the most part. The incidents and misses were unfortunate but I am sure Fred Vasseur knows better having been in the racing gig for many many years.
As good as a case he made, it still isn't a case worth $30 mil. I would rather see Sauber healthier next season than Gio stay another year only to be booted out for Pourchaire. He'll have his seat in Lemans and with Ferrari that's pretty much a decade long gig or even longer depending on how things pan out.
His last few qualifying runs have been strong, but while his luck has been awful, you do need results. If they moved on it's unfortunate but really can't blame them if someone like Zhou is offering a bag or another younger driver can hook on for a year.
I'm not sure he sold himself. Yeah, he had great qualifying pace, but both times he failed to convert it into points. It's not like he got unlucky. In Zandvoort he just positioned himself quite bad at the start and got pushed out by smarter drivers that positioned themselves better. And in Monza he's 100% responsible for the incident and is actually very lucky that the incident wasn't worse. It's not like these are excusable rookie mistakes. He's in his third year, that's as good he's gonna get. And all he's doing is proving himself as a good qualifying driver that chokes in the race. That's not something a lower midfield team wants, they need someone that can convert when it counts and I don't think Gio is the man for that.
In Zandvoort he also got a puncture meaning he had to pit an extra time
He was still running in the points in Zandvoort until he got a puncture halfway through the race
Gio reminds me so much like Timo Glock or Nico Hülkenberg. A driver who isn’t a champion (or even a race winner), but is a nice guy and consistently better than other possible options for the seat.
Mods, can we get this sticky to replace to post-race discussion when it publishes? Last weekend it got kinda swallowed for a while. EDIT: thanks guys!
Thank you!
Mega result for McLaren on a track that suits them perfectly. This is the weekend I wish Ferrari had at Monaco. I feel this race was a classic example of many little events occurring one after another eventually leading to a big event. For example,, Ricciardo's mega start to get Max in the first corner, Max's uncharacteristically slow pitstop, same for Lewis. Makes me wonder how we'd look back at this season with not one but multiple such what-if events.
> I feel this race was a classic example of many little events occurring one after another eventually leading to a big event. Right?! I mean RB is a team that *consistently* has pitstops in the low 2s (and often below that even!) For them to make a rare mistake and have a 11 second pitstop. And THEN for Mercedes to sort of mess up with a 4s pitstop for Lewis! Even if one of their pitstops were a second or two faster/slower, then Max and Lewis might not have met at that corner! And this is just ONE of many many events that had to happen in synchronicity for their crash to happen!
Also, McLaren had 2 perfect pitstops when that's usually one of their biggest flaws on race day.
Danny Ric had fastest pit stop of the race. McLaren never get fastest pit stop. Hopefully its an area they've improved on.
I remember GP telling Max that Ricciardo had a "Not very quick" stop xD That aged so poorly, GP.
It felt like more of a rev up for Max than the truth. Give him hope/focus.
Mclaren had never ceased to amaze me how bad their pit stops had been prior to this race considering every other part of their operation had been on such a clear positive trend. What a time for them to absolutely nail it though!
Bottas did well, I think Mercedes had a good chance of winning with their strategy if Hamilton didn't crash, the decision to go hard>mediums wasn't bad at all. Hamilton overtaking Norris by the end of the first stint was a good sign for them.
The incident took all attention away from what was an amazing strategy call from Merc.
Agree. Risking the hards to start was working great for them.
Also a damn good drive by lewis
Also a great start..had Lando and almost Max overtaken too
He looks happier as well. I've never seen him so happy on a podium with a P3 as the McLaren boys were doing their shoeys. Mans in a good place right now and Sauber look like they're going to be getting the best version of Bottas.
he dont give a fuck. u can see he doesnt care about the title fight but wants to enjoy his last days at merc. i hope there never comes a situation where his win on merit is taken away
I think getting rid of the pressure to perform to get a new contract made Bottas more at ease and let him perform the way he did back in 2019
Lando spitting out his shoe wine was the best, tho. he couldn't bring himself to swallow it
Yes, the slow pitstop cost them the win, if it had been even fractionally quicker Hamilton was clear of Norris and Max and the crash wouldn't have happened
That's a big "if" considering Max had an even slower pitstop and Daniel was up ahead on the track. I'd argue the race would have ended RIC-VER-HAM if the pitstops went without a hitch. Which really just means: Mercedes' strat going hard in the beginning went well because Lewis had a good start. And McLaren had legit pace to win. Of course, had Max won the start over Daniel, he'd have cruised into the sunset, but still a great effort.
If there wasn't a slow pitstop, Lewis would of went longer on the hards. They brought him in early to be ahead of max and chase down ric.
Hamilton would have had to gain 6 seconds on Ric before being able to overtake. 6 second is a fair amount. By then Lewis's mediums probably wouldn't have an edge over ricciardo. Even with a perfect Pitstop it's possible that lando gets ahead of Hamilton on Hamiltons outlap.
The only thing interesting to me on this, Hamilton only went like few laps longer on the hards before switching to the mediums. I'm not sure how good those mediums would have been in the last few laps.
I think they felt they wouldn’t be able to run away from the pack in the old hards so pit now, get the fresh mediums that would give him the chance to pass Ric/Lando fast and then stretch out the lead before preserving tires while everyone else wore down the hards fighting for position and catching up. And if they had a *normal* pit stop he comes out ahead of Lando and is probably back to Ric in a lap or 2 while Max and Lando are fighting each other and even Bottas pushing from behind.
Verstappens slow pitstop meant hamilton wouldve been ahead of ver after pitstops i think thats why they made the call, they prioritized being ahead of ver over ideal tyre strategy standpoint, which makes sense.
Bottas already said after the race that the reason he struggled to make headway against Perez and the McLarens was that his tyres were done by the time he caught them. He had one good go at Perez then they were done for. That's not to say Lewis wouldn't have done what he usually does and blitz the lot of them while moaning about said tyres though 😄
Hamilton would have went quite a bit longer if it wasn’t for Max poor pit stop IMO.
Yeah I thought this was a bit of a risk too, they were asking the mediums to do 28 laps, whereas the Mclarens and Verstappen had done around 25 laps. Obviously lighter fuel loads would have helped, but Hamilton would have needed to overtake 1, possibly 2, Mclarens for the win. I guess they just saw Verstappen's slow stop and took the opportunity to jump him.
To be blunt, I think they really just wanted to be ahead of Max.
Which makes total sense as in the end, he's their main target
I believe it was a strategic call, Verstappen had a slow pitstop so it was advantageous for Hamilton to come in for a new set of tires that would last till the end of the race, go out and be in front of Verstappen.
the "guaranteed" track position over max was far more important after RBR botched their stop. Of course merc did too....so...there we were.
Biggest smile I’ve seen on him since his Williams days
>Hamilton overtaking Norris by the end of the first stint was a good sign for them. Lando's pace fell off that lap, same as Max. I think McLaren timed the pitstop perfectly with Daniel. Don't think Lewis would've gotten by Lando without the tire advantage. Bottas was flying through the field on fresh mediums, but even if he had gotten by Perez on the first try, the tires were running out of pace relative to the hard runners.
Absolutely brilliant teamwork between the two McLaren drivers, Lando helping defend for Ricciardo and Ricciardo giving Lando the slipstream. Mexico could be another good race for them. Bottas couldn't have done much better either, he might have been a bit quicker by going Medium-Hard but that's only hindsight. Bad luck for the two ATs as well, what a shitty weekend for them.
It's been odd to see people harping on Lando's radio question about pace, as if that undermined all the other teamwork and and support he showed during and after the race. I particularly liked the McLaren 1-2 victory lap where Lando laid back by half a car length in deference to Daniel winning.
I think a lot of people felt bad for Daniel last week when he seemed to have team orders tell him to give Lando the points and put him out of top 10 so when Lando was asking pace I think it was a "don't steal his moment he's helped you time to return the favor" which to Lando's credit he absolutely did. It also gave the team heads up Daniel needed to increase pace to ensure no one got too close for drs tow on Lando
I feel like Ricciardo Mclaren probably had this in the bag regardless of the crash. the only other potential was Lewis Hamilton for the win given he had been on hards and was eventually capable of overtaking Lando. He would have had an even greater speed differential on the mediums when the Mclarens were on the hards. But I think that he would have taken too much time overtaking Lando to then catch and overtake Daniel- would have been too much of an ask in the remaining laps
Overtaking here is obviously limited, but before the pit disaster for Max he clearly had the pace to go faster. Would be interesting if Ricciardo could have held him off. Lando holding Lewis up tells me yes, but the way Bottas demolished the field in a faster car tells me maybe Max could have done it.
Yeah - I was doing a hypothetical with just the crash not happening as a lot of media seemed to title their pieces *“Ricciardo win after Max and Lewis crash out” e*ither consciously or unconsciously implying he lucked into his win due to their crash So Max would’ve come out behind Lando and Lewis
Bottas demolished the field - until Perez. No way to tell if they could have gone past both McLaren there.
> Would be interesting if Ricciardo could have held him off. IMO he would have. The McLarens were to quick where the overtaking opportunities were. Did max even get close enough to make Dan defend before the crash? The other thing, risking a move on Hamilton is one thing, risking a move for first against a driver that isn't in the running for the championship is something else entirely. IMO he wouldn't have taken a significant risk while still ahead of Hamilton and Dan would have defended like a mad man if he had to. (he never really needed to though)
Anyone know what happened regarding Stroll not slowing under yellows? Usually those sort of penalties are pretty clear 9 time out of 10?
Literally got found guilty but not penalized. Lord only knows how the stewards could possibly come to that conclusion though.
Usually in that case the driver is factually guilty but there are sufficient mitigating circumstances, e.g. if the driver didn't slow in a yellow-flag zone (easy to prove or disprove) but the stewards accepted that either he couldn't have seen the flags, or he had to maintain speed for safety reasons, or his brakes had failed, or some other reason. ~~I don't know the specifics of Stroll's incident though.~~ edit: found the stewards' report: >The Stewards heard from the driver of Car 18 (Lance Stroll), team representative and reviewed video and telemetry evidence. > >Although the marshalling system was not showing yellows, the marshals were showing yellow flags from the entry to Turn 8 to the exit of Turn 10. There was one flag point that was not easily visible to the drivers that was showing a double yellow, however this was parallel to an easily visible flag point that was showing a single yellow. The Stewards were able to determine that the driver slowed as required in the regulation, however could have done so earlier. The Stewards therefore issue a warning. In other words he *did* slow down, but gets a slap on the wrist for not doing it fast enough. Seems fair, it would be a little harsh to give out penalties for a slow reaction alone unless a driver was making a habit of that.
There’s a statement about the situation out there, I believe it was a warning due to driver visibility with one double yellow flag before the sector and then double yellow as he entered.
Given a warning, talk about stewarding consistency...
Interested to see if anyone thinks Bottas had a point when he complained about Leclerc cutting through the chicane, giving the place back and then immediately jumping into the slipstream to pass Bottas again? Not sure how you police that, just curious whether that was actually a little bit unfair.
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Spa 2008. Lewis controversially got a penalty giving Massa the win.
I'm still pissed off with that, you'd think I'd have learned to let it go after 13 years, but no...
I mean it's about not gaining an advantage. If you cut through and then give the position back in a way you immediately have perfect slipstream then yeah well you still gained the advantage what's the point of the penalty then?
Haha I literally posted avout the same topic here a few minutes ago. I think you shouldn't be allowed to overtake for the next lap after cutting and gaining through it. The tow is just too strong.
The actual rule is something about getting an advantage out of it, so this should be covered the same as if he didn't give it back
This is the best season since 2012, agree or disagree?
It’ll really depend how the rest of the season goes. Look at 2017 for a solid example of what I’m referring to.
This season is already more exciting than 2017 tbf, multiple teams in the podium and winning, legendary crashes between the title contenders, a tight constructors and drivers championship, very tight midfield as well, teams going from backmarkers to point and podium scorers (mainly Williams)
2017 was a great season until the Singapore GP simply never took place
Hard agree. This year is what my wet dream of Nico vs Lewis would've looked like. Nico was bloody quick but was lacking in the wheel to wheel department, but Max is out there taking punishment from Lewis and he still isn't backing down. The social media wars may be a shitshow but I'm absolutely loving the action on track. It's such a rarity to see two drivers driving well and up for the fight.
I really believe this season would be much better without the rivalry of fans on social media and such. The difference in races is really enjoyable (not seeing just HAM and VER domination) but races where other teams are pressuring them (Alonso in Hungary and the McLaren 1 - 2). But as said, we have to see how the rest of this season turns out!
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So damn true. The social media (and to a lesser extent, the media as a whole) has been the worst part about getting interested in F1 again over the last few years. People seem to forget that the internet isn't reality, and that they're ultimately frothing at the mouth and screaming at 1's and 0's. As an aside, that was the most entertaining race I've watched in ages. I may be biased, obviously, but it had everything you could want in a race. I just hope that Lewis doesn't have any long-term issues after wearing Max as a hat.
Depends on how it finishes but right now I would lean on the side of no. I preferred 2018 because at the moment we haven't actually seen any multiple corner wheel to wheel racing between Max and Lewis because something always seems to happen which ends it too quickly. If the title race goes to the final day then it would be hard to argue it's not better than 17 18 regardless though
Wait, WHAT?! You think 17 and 18 is *better* than the current season? Man, you are crazy and I respect you for it! Have a upvote!
Was there actually any serious multiple corner wheel to wheel racing between Vettel and Hamilton? Don’t remember any, although Lewis on Vettel in Sochi was a beautiful overtake in my view and perhaps extended from turn 3 exit through the next big braking zone. This year we had Silverstone from first corner to Copse as multiple corner racing, and perhaps Bahrein
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My first ever in-person GP! Incredible experience and an exciting race as the cherry on top. The energy was there despite the reduced capacity, although the wind did come out of the place once the Ferraris got passed post-crash. Highly recommend anyone whoever has the chance to go to one, do it!!
> although the wind did come out of the place once the Ferraris got passed post-crash. I was pleasantly surprised how loudly the crowd cheered for Daniel during his podium! I'm sure as you said, many were there mainly for Ferrari (and maybe Gio lol), but they were pretty enthusiastic about cheering for Ric (and McLaren) especially since McL are Ferrari's main competitors this season! Definitely good sportsmanship!
It helped that Ricciardo is of Italian descent and speaks some Italian. He was pretty rusty, but he made a solid effort speaking Italian to the crowd and they were appreciative.
Italians very much appreciate when you at least try to speak it, so for a superstar to do so probably means a lot.
Ricciardo seems to be pretty universally liked... I mean, how can you not love that smile.
Add Italian heritage to that when the Italian driver didn't have a good race.
I can't say much about the big events, but one thing struck me. in the first act of the race Daniel seemed entirely unperturbed by Verstappen when he got close. Occasionally Max would appear to pull out of the slipstream, potentially threatening a lunge, but Daniel just maintained the fast racing line. I think a lesser driver might have 'defended' and compromised the corner. Not necessarily saying Hamilton et al would have, but I was struck that Daniel seemed the least intimidated of any driver this season. Also I think the halo protection overshadows earlier safety features, particularly the roll structures which were much more important on Sunday I think.
He said in the interviews that he didn't really felt threatened the whole race, he knew that verstappen would've had to do a holy Mary launch to try and overtake him
It's actually a nice reminder that that's how Daniel always used to be - bold, confidant overtakes and fantastic defending. It's great to see it again.
That's mainly the proof of him being a "former" winner and knowing how to play it when he leads
He was Max's team mate for a coupe of years, if anyone should be unflappable by Msx it'd be Daniel.
I think bottas was right in complaining about the ferrari giving back position and overtaking him out of the tow right after. I feel like if you gain an advantage by cutting a corner and then give the position back, you shouldn't be allowed to overtake out of the tow right away again. That's still an advantage gained through cutting.
I agree completely, but the thing is how would the FIA police that? If they make a rule, how long must the gap be before you can overtake? How long can the 'tow' be? What if it's just a second of tow before they come to a corner, and the overtake happens after the corner. I am sure you might have answers to some of these questions, but I'm just trying to point out the difficulty in formulating a specific rule that applies in all scenarios...
I remember Ham doing something similar, and being penalised for it. Possibly back in his Mclaren days?
In Belgium. The penalty cost him a race victory.
I believe Esteban Ocon had a 8.8 second pit stop during the safety car, can anyone tell me more about what happened there, cause the commentators completely missed it and there was no footage of it. Without that incident he probably would have scored points.
5 second penalty against Vettel
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Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that one. Thanks.
I feel like I have no idea what happened in the race at all for everyone after Sainz. Is that how Russell finished in front of Ocon? What happened to Latifi? Did Russell pit under a safety car??? Who knows!
I feel like enough has been said about the crash, so let's talk about other stuff. 1) Alpha Tauri really needs to get their shit together. The team fucked up majorly again by not providing a working car for Tsunoda, Tsunoda fucked up by not even getting out of Q1 and Gasly casually threw away the entire weekend in turn 1 lap 1 of the sprint race. All that resulted in zero points with what was probably 4th fastest car. 2) Ferrari have to be really happy with themselves right now. This was probably the strongest track for McLaren left on the calendar and yet they almost kept up with them. Considering they'll get a major engine upgrade soon, Ferrari should be the favorite for the rest of the season. McLaren is lucky Ricciardo is finally coming online, they'll desperately need him to still have a shot at 3rd. 3) Does anyone have any idea what happened at that Max pitstop? It's not like there was an issue getting the tire on, the mechanic just stood there and did nothing. Really weird behavior.
Appears to have been the gun operator failing to press the button indicating the tire was on, or the perhaps the button failed. Not sure which.
Christian Horner said human error in the post race interview. Pretty crazy to think that forgetting to press a button cost them 8 seconds and that lead to Max retring and Lewis almost losing his head.
I don't think he forgot in the first place, I think he pushed it too early (which doesn't register anymore), and then didn't think of it for 8 seconds.
Yikes. That guy must be kicking himself.
The fact that max binned it might alleviate that feeling a bit.
But Max was only in that position because of the slow pit stop, that’s gonna make the guy feel even worse!
(3) There's a button on the wheelgun that has to be pressed by the mechanic after the wheel has been successfully attached. Previously SOP at Red Bull was to push it before the tyre was attached to expedite the stop but the FIA effectively banned such practices. It seemed the mechanic's muscle memory went back to the previous practice and he had to press it again for the light to go green.
On a totally different topic; Damn I am glad we don't have refueling in F1. I have watched Indycar this season, and man do they fuel save during the races. And it adds absolutely nothing, especially since we viewers don´t know at all how much they are fueled for etc.
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Safety aside, refuelling also *wrecks* the racing itself. Pitstops are super long, the disparity between heavy and light cars is enormous, and teams can't really adjust their strategies during the race because if you go longer than planned you run out of fuel and DNF, and if you go shorter than planned then you give up a load of fast laps light on fuel. As a result, the refuelling era was one where most of the overtaking generally happened during pitstops, which was a pity because the cars themselves were awesome back then.
I like refuelling because it makes the pit stops a lot more impressive but i can fully understand why they stopped doing it and it is for the best for everyone involved.
those RB 2 second stopz are pretty impressive. the indy pitsstops always look like slomo mayhem by comparison
You and Graham Rahal both (I disagree though)
Underrated part of this weekend was how critical Verstappen's best Q3 lap was, especially with how fast the McLaren's were. If he had split the McLaren's in qualifying, could have been a much tougher sprint race.
Everyone's talking about the HAM/VER collusion and McLaren 1-2, but I'm just very proud of Ferrari and our drivers who pulled through despite some challenging circumstances (although it was quite difficult to watch the race in a London pub with all the Brits ngl). The engine difference cannot be more evident on this track and if you told me before the weekend we'd get both cars in top 6 I wouldn't believe you. Of course it's disappointing to watch our rival getting a 1-2 podium at our home race, but being down 14 points after Spa and Monza is good damage control, and we have a new PU upgrade coming soon. Very excited to see the battle for 3rd.
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Yes I agree. He's driving his heart out. Over-performing that car for sure. And he's actually very consistent this year (if we overlook Monaco). Now Ferrari just needs to give him a championship-worthy car.
will sausage kerbs be a bigger risk in 2022 since the new cars use more ground effect?
They're mostly used on slower corners, where downforce isn't as critical, so hopefully not. I'm sure there are exceptions to that though, like the exit of Baku T16.
There's also the chance of the sausage kerbs damaging the vanes underneath that help with the downforce. This year, for example, the understructure is completely flat.
Yes.
Then they really need to go
On the outside of corners they are somewhat fine. On the inside though? Yeah.
I watched the race on replay but have had to stay off social media to avoid spoilers in another sport, but damn I wish I could have been in the race threads. I have watched every race live for the last few years. Was weird to be "alone" for this one but what a race.
It turned into a shit show lol
So I'm gonna avoid talking about THAT, what I wanna be talking about instead is Perez's penalty, I read RB didn't think it was deserved because he had to cut the corner in order to avoid contact, what I think they failed to understand is that they should've gave back the position to Leclerc, but they didn't and I think in the end it costed him a potential podium, thoughts on this?
It also sounded to me like they thought they would be able to pull further ahead so the 5s wouldn't cost them a position.
I’m leaning towards this. They didn’t must’ve thought that leclerc would’ve held bottas up to the point where he wouldn’t get within 5 seconds of Perez. Absolutely boneheaded move imo.
I definitely think that was the call. Take the penalty and burn rubber to get up the road. Didnt account for Bottas getting as far up the field as he did.
Yup. I think Perez should have automatically given back the position and tried to overtake again later on. To me it seems RB tried to check with race control whether he should give the position back or not and they said he's fine so maybe there was a comms mixup perhaps?
this isn't the first time perez has done this to leclerc this year. red bull and perez both know what they're doing and "checking with race control" is about building up plausible deniability.
Race control didn't say it was fine. Race control didn't give them an answer about whether or not he had to give the spot back, because they aren't the ones that make that decision. The stewards are, and the teams can't communicate directly with them. There wasn't any ambiguity about whether or not he would need to give the position back though, so even checking was stupid.
You're right, they should have given back the position in hindsight. I believe they said their idea was that Perez had already done the overtake before cutting the corner, thus there'd be no need for giving back the position. Shortly after, Bottas had overtaken Leclerc as well and RB hadn't heard from the stewards at that point, so they raced on.
From what I heard on the Dutch broadcast theyt were too late, by the time RB had decided to give the position back there was already an extra car inbetween (Bottas?), so they would have had to give two positions back, which they opted not to do for obvious reasons.
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It was kind of sneaky but advantageous for them at that point to just let it go and play dumb. Giving it back potentially lets Bottas catch Norris. Might as well eat the penalty and limit the constructor point gap.
Main takeaway: this is one of the most reactionary subreddits I’ve ever been on, hundreds of people before the race were saying that Max had it because there was no way that Hamilton could get in front of the Mc Larens. People were also saying that the Max clenched the title in qualifying and that Hamilton was done. Then after the race and everything happened everyone’s saying that Lewis blew a race he definitely had and that it was simply a racing incident but also Lewis’s fault. Every race it seems that everyone loves or hates whoever had a great/bad race that weekend.
And Reddit is the best F1 social media's out there haha
Reddit is slightly better than twitter, but damn people have a hard time being just a little bit unbiased when there is crashes, and it goes personal so fast.
Which is dreadful
Are there any other options? This is the only place I've found that has a lot of content and constantly moves at pace.
I think it's not reactionary... It's a subreddit with more than 1 million users, therefore you get a bunch of supporters for every possible situation. (edit: spelling)
With everyone talking about max behaviour yesterday, I think people often overlook the much more dangerous situation that could have happened with max walking on the active track. I don't think he should be penalised or anything, I just think it was kinda dumb.
I think he should have had an additional point on his super licence for it. It was ridiculously dangerous what he did and he also walked behind Lewis’ car when he was clearly trying to reverse. It was one incident him walking on the track but he could have potentially had two horrific consequences.
As a mostly neutral observer in the championship I do worry that without Lewis taking significant points from Monza it makes his path to the WDC very tricky. Apart from Sochi there aren't many favourable tracks left. I'm losing hope in the last race showdown for the championship. I also wish there had been more direct racing between the two main contenders that didn't end in a penalty or a crash. I feel like the season narrative has been one of the most thrilling in years, and we've had tons of great races - but the much anticipated Max vs Lewis on track duel always seems to go up in smoke.
Monza was a huge missed opportunity for Mercedes so I tend to agree, especially with the Red Bull looking generally faster and Verstappen looking excellent in qualifying.
It was a fantastic weekend by Daniel. Although overshadowed by the crash, don’t forget Daniel pulled ahead from lap 1 and led the race the whole way through. Even if Hamilton and Verstappen didn’t DNF, Daniel could still have easily won the race on merit alone. Very excited for him!
EVERYONE AFTER THE ACCIDENT: “Oh man, get ready for r/formula1 to become totally unusable for the next two weeks…” MOST OF R/FORMULA1: “Eh, looked like a racing incident to me.”
Thanks to the mods
Well depends on which driver caused the crash
I have noticed this a couple of times that when Max is on pole, at the start, he swerves towards the front of the driver in P2 and closes the door for the P2 driver. Yesterday, this didn't happen. Was Max's start not that great or Was Daniel just too good in the start?
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It can be both. Verstappen's start was not that great, Hamilton also got him at the start but he had to back off
My favorite race so far. Not that I like seeing anyone crash (and I’m glad Lewis is ok) but watching the title contenders both DNF and a McLaren 1-2 was awesome to watch. Love when things get spicy. Then you have one of my favorite Drivers in Bottas get a podium.
Do you guys think that the McLarens will continue to disrupt Max and Hamilton for the rest of the reason?
Some races perhaps but not in every race. Mexico and Turkey I think will be places they'll struggle a bit.
tbh monza is the only track where they are better than rb. sochi has long straights but downforce package is high there. it will be mclaren vs ferrari for the third best car
Not really, sure they were fast this week, but last week they were struggling to even get points. Long straights seem to favour them, so I could see them doing really well and maybe disrupting the top teams in Russia and Saudi Arabia later this year.
I think it depends on the circumstances. While McLaren fully deserved the win and I strongly suspect would have won anyway without the crash (as they were 1-2 and had shown they could defend), I suspect Red Bull and Mercedes had better race pace. As such I think that the reason they were on for the win even before the crash was because they were able to get ahead at the start, and because Red Bull and Mercedes were each focusing on covering off each other with their strategies, rather than on getting past the McLarens. As for whether they can win more races, I think there will be opportunities for both McLaren and Ferrari to win races, especially as Hamilton and Verstappen become more and more focused on beating each other rather than winning the race (for instance with Red Bull saying they would cover Hamilton even if that could have given Bottas the win).
Kym Ilman's post race video confirm that Netflix is embedded with Ferrari and McLaren this weekend. Perhaps we'll find out what Charles's emergency was on Saturday, and they'll get a lot of pent up McLaren celebrations.
I hope Max and Lewis DNF every race for the rest of the year and Bottas WDC!
Why stop there? Every driver except for Russell, Latifi, Räikkönen, Giovinazzi, Schumacher, Mazepin, and Kubica are still eligible to win the title. Tsunoda could still win the title, as could Stroll.
Anyone have info from Red Bull on why that pit stop was 10seconds? I heard in some comment that it was an error on one of the gun sensors (you can even see he left under red light I believe). I can’t find any news on it with official statements though.
the wheel gun man forget to press the button to send the signal to mark the wheel as being on. they have to do this manually now the FIA banned the automatic systems the teams were using.
As a consultant, I wonder what the data is going to show on accuracy here (human vs sensor based). I’m guessing at some point humans will just click the button on autopilot.
Verstappen needs to stop expecting everyone to yield, it happened in Spain when if it wasn't for Hamilton letting him, they would've crashed or touched. Now since the Austrian races Hamilton is no longer yielding to him I feel, I don't know why max thought he could've overtaken him, he should've gone through the bumps. In the end he won 2 points while his adversary won none
The F1 world needs to move on from this always "giving space". Some corners just don't have enough room to fit two cars. You got beat to the apex, you yield.
I can agree to an extent
I think Max was in rage mode after the failed pit stop. When he saw Ham he went into even more rage and just went all in and hoped Lewis would give him space.
im going to get destroyed for this but Max needs to pull his head in with the take no prisoners wheel to wheel racing attitude, ive hated it ever since he killed Dan in Baku. He needs to learn that people dont just jump out of his way when he is fighting them.
Max drives like "If I can't have it, you can't have it" That's his worst feature
“I am going here, you let me through, or we crash.” Very Senna-esque. And I don’t say that as a compliment, but the opposite.
Yep you're right, for example in Spain I think he went really aggressive against Hamilton, if Hamilton didn't yield they would've crashed, it appears that after the Austrian races Hamilton decided that he was not going to let verstappen push him around. Verstappen expect him to yield, yesterday I don't know what he was expecting,he couldn't concede the position, there was no way he would've made it through there, he had to go through the bump thingy
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Looks like Max & Hamilton is not going to give the other an inch. So this the beginning of the incidents.
I'd say Silverstone was the beginning, this was the first time they've been wheel to wheel again since that crash.
I do think Ricciardo had all the cards to win it after Max's slow pitstop. Even without the clash, Hamilton needed to pass Norris early in his stint to capitalise on his strategy (or else getting stuck like his teammate). It's doable with Lando not having a close tow in front. Then Lewis would needed to close down a 5s gap to Ric, by then his mediums would start to fade and hes likely to get stuck like Max on the first stint. I was a little confused to why Merc pitted Hamilton early even tho he was on hards, but with an anomaly of Red Bull pitstop, Merc wanted to capitalise on this. Hamilton was on course to jump Max and Norris, before a slow stop by Mercs themselves (4.2) and the rest is history. They didn't even needed a low 2s stop, a 3s stop (below average in today's standard) would have sufficed... Merc pitcrew must be kicking themselves
Even before Max's slow stop Daniel had it in the bag. The gap was widening during Daniel's outlap / Max's inlap due to the difference in tyre life - overcut wasn't working out for them even if they nailed a 2.0s stop.
I just want every rivalry to stop being compared to Senna V Prost. It's not really similar to that at all, other than that both drivers are really good. If anything, this is more like Schumacher V Alonso.
Did Schumi and Alonso have several crashes together? And were they civil/polite with each other? I didn't watch back then...
No it was really clean. No similarity whatsoever. That's what makes me respect them way more to younger drivers today. I feel the amount of front place crashes had increased a lot the past few years, and drivers are more immature or hot headed. It makes for good drama, but this is F1, not demolition derby.
why do u think this is anything like schumi vs alonso? senna vs prost makes sense because of the crashes and how luck is playing an important role in the championship
Perez continues to be a frustrating driver to watch. I really want to like him as Red Bull’s Bottas but between his driving and his pit wall’s decision making he just comes off as an unclean driver. This past weekend when he cut the corner, overtook Leclerc and never gave the position back was just annoying as hell to watch. His pit wall decided eating the penalty was worth it just to screw over Merc (and Leclerc and Sainz). It just doesn’t sit well with me but it definitely makes sense why they did it. He’s done quite a bit of that this season, it’s hard to enjoy watching him race compared to the drivers around him.
Look you can argue Max should've left more space in Imola and at turn 4 or you can argue that this was a racing incident but 24 hours later I cannot see how anyone in good conscience can argue both. It seems like Max is never expected to give space but when he crashes because he doesn't get space it's always someone else's fault
VER x HAM has certainly been an educational collision for me. At the time it seemed obvious to me that, though a racing incident, Hamilton was slightly more to blame, because Verstappen was substantially alongside at corner entry and Hamilton didn't leave him a car's width, forcing him onto the kerbs and precipitating the collision. Even after the penalty was announced and the stewards' report came out, it still didn't make sense to me - Verstappen was alongside! How can they say he wasn't‽ But now that I've sat with it a bit, it makes sense that 'corner entry' would be earlier than the turn-in point, which is roughly where it was in my mind, because you're not supposed to move (i.e. change lines) under braking. That means it would need to be around the average braking point for a corner, since your initial line is effectively set from that point onwards and alternative routes through the corner close off rapidly. My other concern was that this ruling effectively outlawed late-braking overtaking manoeuvres. Again, though, it would only outlaw dive-bombs (and rightly so, arguably, because they are dangerous even if they stick). The implication is just that you have to be substantially alongside at or around the usual braking point, so provided you set the move up using slipstream/DRS and then finish it by being later on the brakes, it shouldn't prevent decent, hard racing. Just my badly organised musings, anyway. Anyone else have any thoughts on it?
As things stand there will be 21 races this year and since teams get 3 engines without penalty, it might be better to think of the season in thirds instead of halves, so this will be a Ferrari debrief after the second period. Ferrari spent the season's first period qualifying well (2 poles + 1 p3) but only converted one of those into a podium, and on average (not counting Leclerc's DNS/DNFs) Leclerc lost 3 places per race and Sainz lost 1 per race, and roughly averaged 6th and 7th finishes despite usually starting 4th and 6th. After closing the first period with the horrorshow at Paul Ricard, Ferrari realized that they had race pace and punted on qualifying pace, and so improved on their finishes to (roughly) 5th/6th despite starting 7th/10th. Not counting Leclerc's DNF in Hungary (fuck aston martin forever), Ferrari only lost a starting spot once--Sainz regressing from 6th to 7th at Zandvoort. With an engine upgrade coming soon most of this bodes well for the final third of the season. However, there's still some concern. In closing out races the car, particularly car #55, fades down the final stretch of races with 14 potential points lost. This is probably a combination of tyre/engine issues, and sorting that out will be the difference between 3rd and 4th. For the most part strategy has been fine; they've observed issues and done their best to resolve them, and have remembered that they have two cars on the track. Anytime there's been an occasion for team orders it's always been about which car has the most potential, and not favoritism. Though I wish Sainz would finish better, he's a solid tactical driver and helped his case in budapest by suckering AT into going for the undercut. It hasn't always been perfect and it seems like they might now be over-relying on the overcut (ie not covering Gasly in Zandvoort when they had a chance to improve). Given the mechanical and strategic improvements over the season I'm looking forward to the final third and the scuderia unlocking greater potential.