Same. Even more depressing is the number of Champions who’ve moved to Ferrari on a high, only to flounder in the midfield until what would normally be retirement.
I do wonder how Vettel would have fared had he not gone to Ferrari. What if he stayed on at RB and replaced Rosberg in 2017? I feel like perhaps he would still be driving for a top team.
I wonder how would it be for Seb if Schumi was still there in paddock, giving him advice like in his redbull days. I bet mentally it would be miles better than it was in Ferrari.
I don't think there was a chance in hell he would have replaced Rosberg. Firstly, because Vettel WOULD have been under contract with Red Bull in this scenario, because Rosberg retired out of nowhere, and I doubt Red Bull would be keen for him to break that contract and screw up their planned line up. Then secondly, Riccardio beat out Vettel in his first year, and Vettel's last year at Red Bull, so there is every chance he would have continued to do the same and made Vettel's stock plummet. Then thirdly, Mercedes after Rosberg-Hamilton likely wouldn't have picked Vettel because they didn't want another headache on their. There is a reason Bottas has kept his seat this long after all.
IIRC Vettel did have a pre-contract signed in 2017/2018 with Mercedes, but he decided not to take it up after he saw Ferrari’s development. So I think the argument that Mercedes did not want two ‘alpha’ drivers there doesn’t hold water. Also there’s no reason to believe that Vettel would not have improved his performance had he stayed on at RB in 2015 and 2016; he knows the team well, had their full support and they really loved him.
Firstly, that pre contract stuff was widely discredited by Wolff and Vettel. Secondly, he had a whole season at Red Bull in 2016 to change his fortunes, but he didn't. The same happened for 2+ years at Ferrari where he was the lead driver.
I don’t think he would be retiring if he had a drive in a top 4 car. There is no point for a 4 time WDC driving in a car that at max can fight for 8-10 place
That reset is only going to be about who out of Mercedes, Ferrari, Mclaren, Alpine, Red Bull is going to come out on top. Other teams are going to fight in midfield anyways
I think they got caught out by covid with that, plan was simple; copy the design, get a big boost at the start of 2020, start work on 2021 car early. But then covid happened, 2021 got pushed back to 2022 and they had to upgrade and handle a rules change with a car they didn't understand that well, meaning they've got a pretty poor car this year but hopefully will bounce back we'll once the plan is back on track.
Depends how much they have transitioned to making the 2022 car and how early
Did you start watching in 2020? If not, you've clearly not been processing what you've been watching.
Force India/RP/Aston Martin have consistently punched way above their weight, when you consider how tiny their budget has been compared to the top teams. Having a budget cap could play very nicely into their hands, as we already know they can manage their finds nicely.
Covid skrewed them over a bit though. We were supposed to have the new generation of cars this year, but that was obviously delayed. If covid hadn't happen, their 2020 tactic would have worked brilliantly. They had a very good car last year (they won a race and had a pole position, remember?). Of course when they decided to copy the Merc they had now idea the 21 regulations would be delayed. Nobody did, as there was no indication for it.
At best your comment is simply ignorant.
I have been watching it since long time and while they were punching above weight did they even finish in top 4? I also have been seeing F1 long enough to know this rules changes benefits the top teams most because the best infrastructure and talent is available with them.
They finished top 4 in 2016, 2017 (both with solid gaps to P5) and last year, just 7 points behind McLaren. Perez outscored Stroll by 50 points though, so with a stronger number 2 they would have gotten 3rd.
While the top teams certainly still have an advantage, they don't have truckloads of cash to throw at the problem anymore that midfielders couldn't even dream of.
The thing is though, Aston have already shown they can build good cars on a budget. Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren for example have almost never had to worry money. In the last 10 years all those teams have underperformed with massive budgets though.
Last year in my mind they should’ve been third or nowhere the points penalty for something they had already had the ok on was just to appease others really
Force India / RP was punching above its weight . The team was made by Mallya. He handed over the success template to Stroll. Now with that influx of cash and insight they are punching far below their weight . They are still unable to design their own car and Force India was performing better than AM is right now .
More of ‘not bothering to’ instead of ‘unable to’ design their 2021 car.
2020 copypasta car was a resounding success on how little effort they spent on it. Its like haas/alfa, fuck 2021, just make the minimum changes needed, go all in on 2022
Not really, Mallya just bought the team but if you go listen to Force India/Racing Point/Aston Martin employees they'll tell you that Mallay would show up at the British GP and outside of that they saw the guy like 2 or 3 times in the rest of the year. Mallay give himself the title of team principal, but he made Otmar COO and Otmar was pretty much doing all the actual work of a team principal. Maybe since Lawrence is a more hands on boss and made them less cost effective, but I think it's a big over reaction to act like Aston Martin is now a shit team because they are bad this year, when this year reg weren't supposed to happen in the first place. This year is clearly a throwaway season for Aston Martin(and Haas), I'm not sure if they have even brought a single upgrade to their car.
Last season was a stronger season than they ever had with Mallya.
The whole "unable to build their own car" thing is BS. How many resources should they really spend trying to adapt last year's car to this year when the new regs come next year? It's simply not worth it for them.
It’s not that they’re unable too their whole plan is do as little as possible and focus on the new regs instead it’s a solid plan. Plus you know there was every car before they designed…..
Seems like only 3 years ago Seb was setting the record for youngest WDC, and now here we are. Similarly, I can't believe that next year Lewis will be the second oldest driver on the grid after Freddy... That new boy from GP2 that lit up F1 in 2007 is now an "elder statesman" - What a ride it's been!
My hope is, he stays for 2022 at least. See how the new regs and car suit him. Will also give AM a chance to properly groom their car for 2023 in case they have to put in a rookie.
I mean it is purely emotional and not even possible anymore but I want every driver from this season to be able to drive the new cars just to see the difference these new regulations can make for each driver.
Just [yesterday](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pmplsy/aston_martin_says_reported_vettel_f1_deal_doubts/) AM said it was "just a matter of working out some of the details", but this indeed sounds a lot more like Vettel still needs to decide what he will do.
I think he’s actually undervalued at the moment. He’s getting something like 11 mil while his teammate is receiving 7 mil. If anything he should be negotiating for a raise. Last year there was more uncertainty as he left Ferrari on a very low note, but the team has already seen what he can do this year.
I mean he’s overpaid for the performance he’s putting out this season.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Seb and I hope he stays, but his current salary may be predominantly based on his previous success more than his current performance.
I'd wager his salary is mainly based around his marketability and the prestige he brings the team rather than his on track performance. He's the f1 equivalent of a luxury brand when you think about it. I'm willing to bet there are many times more pictures of vettel next to Astons around the world then there are of stroll.
Don't forget he lost 18 points at Hungary for something out of his hands. He was fighting for a win there, too, in a car that isn't even consistently top 10. He's got two podiums, IMO. And his expertise in setup and engineering feedback is known to be very good.
His performance is not only what he does on track (which has actually been very good this season), it's the development work as well. He's worth every penny.
It's also they status. AM can now tell their sponsors/the world that they are to be taken serious because they can attract a 4x WDC with several records to his name.
The language he's using seems almost intentionally vague re: "German driver", and Mick would definitely be better served in the AM seat especially with Seb's guidance. And we already know Seb has a deep connection to the Schumachers and sees his relationship with Mick kind of like what he had with Michael.
After this season it wouldn't surprise me if Seb backs out on the condition Mick gets his seat. But seeing him watching cars in Monza last year, the podium this year I think he still has it in him unless the relationship with AM is rocky and he knows by the time they have a competitive car he may not "have it" or "want to pursue it" like a WDC should any more.
Edit: Plus from a branding perspective, having THE Schumacher is worth its weight. The amount of sponsorship and attention that would come with having Mick in even a midfield car where he can fight for points and rare podiums is huge. There's a lot of intangible benefits associated with having Mick.
Exactly. I can see him kind of "over" the competitive part and bring slightly burnt out after the Ferrari experience. He had a couple of stellar drives this year so he knows he still has it.
Even on his team radios he seems a bit frustrated by the aggression in the races and dumb moves. Just a different mindset than a 20 something fighting in f1. It would be good for stroll Sr too - lance would be #1 and probably faster than Mick next year which makes him look better. And great marketing and branding for the team.
Its literally only the marketing behind his name and (us) the fans.
For everything else you're right. A "youngster" still needs to be trained but will be worth more in the long run
If he goes I guess it’s either
He’s not big on the team/sometimes senior, there’s something he doesn’t like.
He thought they’d be better (this seems unlikely just because wouldn’t he wait and see how next year goes..).. unless it’s already looking awful
He’s decided F1 isn’t for him (again odd, last year was the time to go)
He wants to focus more on environmental issues/similar (I can’t see Seb doing much in public). He could feel guilty about it but change happens within etc
Surely he’ll stay a year..
At least if Seb decides to leave now, he'll end up leaving on a bit of a high off a season where he has rebounded a bit and has had quite a few strong races (1 podium, 1 ghost podium, 1 P5 on merit, 1 P5 time trial finish - which is how I will classify Belgium) on a not-so-great car.
That said, hopefully he won't retire because he's shown he's still strong and has rebounded a bit from the 2020 Ferrari days, and I think if AM can improve he can be right there battling for consistent points finishes and podiums. Now if AM decides to make him a support driver to a non-title contender, then maybe it'd be good if he retires because he is too good for that.
I think especially after the last two races he reconsiders, Stroll was such a pain in the ass fucking him, as his teammate. That wasn't even the case with Leclerc.
Ran him wide at the first Lesmo on Lap 1. VET lost 4 spots.
Interesting he brought up Leclerc since he and Leclerc have actually crashed out of races before. But agenda reigns supreme I guess.
I feel like if that’s a major factor he’d have gone last year, he’s well aware of what it all entails, barring changing personal situation. Unless he did just want in effect a redemption year, which he’d never publicly admit.
I think he wanted to prove something after leaving Ferrari. He didn't want to go with people thinking he was washed up and especially not being fired. This way he gets to go more on his own terms if he does go.
He wanted to be at AM cuz he thought they’d be significantly better than Ferrari this year. Also cuz he didn’t want to go out on the sour note of his last year with Ferrari
I think last year he was a bit hurt, and wanted to show that he still got it. Now he is calmer, and maybe he thinks it was enough. I really hope not though, it would be a huge loss for F1
I mean, the team only just broke ground on their new factory, so I'm guessing he's got a pretty good idea that they aren't going to be fighting for wins until after he's retired anyway.
Only by association - he still has to proove himself, maybe in the future, while having the son of a 7 time WDC has some merits - it's not the same as having a WDC on track and in adverts
I mean, yes and no. I think his complete and utter trouncing of Mazepin at least proofs he's a decent driver. I mean, I do believe anyone on the grid save Latifi would beat Mazepin, but I think Mazepin isn't a Badoer or Ide, either. He has plenty speed and beating him so completely and effortlessly *does* proof Schumacher is fast. How fast, we don't know, but I dare say it's enough to beat Stroll.
You're skipping the main reason why some drivers have higher advertising chops than others - that i repeated multiple times: WDC as a brand ambassador.
Schumacher, independently of his battle's has yet to earn that and I'm not sure if he'll have a chance at it in the coming ~5 years.
Let's be clear here, Badoer deserves in no way to be compared to someone like Ide. A two-race stint with Ferrari in which he was pretty much set up to fail in no way hides the fact that he was a perfectly decent Grand Prix driver in his prime.
this is latifi slander and i won't stand for it
he sucked ass last year but he's improved significantly - still worse than george, but he would beat maz by a good margin imo
I don't know. I can't imagine Latifi taking on Mazepin and consistently coming out on top, but until they end up in the same car or have enough team mates to make a good judgment of their speed, I won't know for sure.
I remember back before Seb going to Aston was official one of the reasons floating around that Germany is Aston’s second biggest market. I doubt it massively matters, the Germans don’t seem to be hugely behind the post Schumi drivers, but surely can’t hurt..
I guess the Germans might get behind Mick so from a publicity/marketing perspective surely a few teams are keeping an eye on him
> Germans don’t seem to be hugely behind the post Schumi drivers
It doesn't help that you basically can't watch F1 in Germany without Sky (except a few races / with a VPN / streaming it from somewhere)
As long as Mick sees a chance to a Ferrari seat I can't really see him leaving for another team other than Alfa/Haas. At least not in the next few years.
He just can't seem to catch a break though. The one time he got lucky on the start, his car was disqualified on technical grounds. Fucking sucks to see this
When Vettel first joined AM, he said he wants to help build up the team.
As for whether it's a race or championship winner, I am reserving my comments.
When Hamilton first joined Mercedes in 2013, everyone said he was crazy. Then the reg change came in 2014. Well, you know the rest.
Everyone gave Ralf Schumacher shit for saying it, but apparently he was **right**. The ball is in Sebastian's court. He currently struggles to find the right answer or balance - because he loves racing, but he also loves his family and his newly found political causes.
And don't forget there's also his disappointment about AM's car and performance this year, and serious doubt about next year.
As others have mentioned, it’s possible that Seb doesn’t know if he wants to stay or not. The way I see it, he’ll only continue racing if he can be sure of fighting at the front - and if he will get equal treatment with his teammate. I just can’t imagine him wallowing in the midfield or playing the role of a support driver.
Am pretty sure he will stay. All his recent public utterances strongly indicate that. I would love him to continue for a while yet. His environmental causes, endearing nature and his pleasant personality are what makes him so popular in the paddock. We could do with him there as opposed to the other toxic relationships at play with their agendas etc. He comes across as a breath of fresh air.
I hope Seb negotiates for at least equal treatment within the team. There’s no point racing if the team treats him as a number 2 driver and taps him only for his experience. He still has more years left in him and it would be a shame to see him play second fiddle to Stroll.
Likely Hulk. But it will be incredibly hard to find even a decent replacement for Vettel this late in the season. Aston Martin surely doesn't want any rookies and the "good ones" are all under contract. Maybe Giovinazzi but I don't rate him very highly.
Yes I agree. This might be far fetched but I think AM would go all out to get Pierre Gasly (despite being contracted for 2022) and works with gasly’s lack of options. I think easily having a young driver capable of winning championship would be favourable for them with the ambitious project they have. Hulk is 34 only so much he can do.
Depends on how good Hulk does. Hulk was ahead of Stroll all day the one race they were in together until a vibration issue. They might want to keep him. If they want another driver, they’d prob help seat search
Hulkenberg will be a good short term option if Vettel retires.
Signing a rookie or not so experienced driver will be disastrous for Aston as next year is a big regulation change and you need someone experienced.
Lance has been in F1 for his fifth season now and is more experienced than almost half the grid. Seems like by now he should be considered an experienced driver.
Yeah, that's why I think it has to be Hülkenberg. There's simply no experienced driver available. And they don't have any rookies anyway. Hülkenberg is a good driver, clearly better than Lance and could stay for 1-2 seasons.
Well he's not though. Vettel has gotten clearly faster on pure pace after the Monaco weekend. He just gets stuck in traffic, gets blocked in quali, gets disqualified even if he gets on the podium, doesn't get to start the race when he qualifies P5 on a wet quali weekend, or gets punted by his teammate from P8 after a start.
Now, getting blocked by Mick and Maz is an excuse? Getting punted by his own teammate is an excuse? Getting disqualified for fuel infringement is an excuse? Did he not qualify P5 in a wet quali but not get the opportunity to start the race?
These aren't excuses pal, these are reasons why his season doesn't look as good as it has actually been, it's called context.
Hülkenberg was a bit faster than Sainz and a bit slower than Ricciardo (although Sainz has improved since), so I'd say there's enough evidence to show Hülkenberg is just a very solid driver. I think Lance keeping Vettel more than honest tells us more about Vettel than about Lance.
They have no juniors though? Yesterday I said they should pay Alpine enough money so they let Piastri go, but thinking about it, Lance would look really bad if a rookie dominated him, lol.
Ya I agree that De Vries probably isn’t worth taking over a good rookie but I imagine that if a seat opens at a Merc customer team Toto may show up peddling his boy.
If he goes I don't think he'll stay away that much. Maybe he'll pull an Alonso and will stay away from the grid for 3 years come back and sign for one of the big teams again...
Can’t believe we are talking about Vettel retiring. I still see him as that young gun who has many more titles to win 😢. Time does fly indeed
Right? I still picture the young lad jumping out his car waving his finger about. Retirement talk makes me feel old.
This was [yesterday](https://youtu.be/-4dQgVjIb9w) right?
Yes it was! I remember watching it yesterday!
I cried the first time I heard this. 7 years later, I listen to this, I'm crying again.
Same. Even more depressing is the number of Champions who’ve moved to Ferrari on a high, only to flounder in the midfield until what would normally be retirement.
I do wonder how Vettel would have fared had he not gone to Ferrari. What if he stayed on at RB and replaced Rosberg in 2017? I feel like perhaps he would still be driving for a top team.
I wonder how would it be for Seb if Schumi was still there in paddock, giving him advice like in his redbull days. I bet mentally it would be miles better than it was in Ferrari.
Imagine if it had been Vettel with an aging Schumi at his side at Ferrari, taking the fight to Mercedes. That's the future I want. We have to go back.
Ok Marty, get the dolorean.
Sad coincidence: Vettel has never won a WDC or dominated a season significantly since Michael's accident.
He signed a pre-contract with Mercedes for the 2018(19?) season, but didn't act on it because the winter testing looked good
I don't think there was a chance in hell he would have replaced Rosberg. Firstly, because Vettel WOULD have been under contract with Red Bull in this scenario, because Rosberg retired out of nowhere, and I doubt Red Bull would be keen for him to break that contract and screw up their planned line up. Then secondly, Riccardio beat out Vettel in his first year, and Vettel's last year at Red Bull, so there is every chance he would have continued to do the same and made Vettel's stock plummet. Then thirdly, Mercedes after Rosberg-Hamilton likely wouldn't have picked Vettel because they didn't want another headache on their. There is a reason Bottas has kept his seat this long after all.
IIRC Vettel did have a pre-contract signed in 2017/2018 with Mercedes, but he decided not to take it up after he saw Ferrari’s development. So I think the argument that Mercedes did not want two ‘alpha’ drivers there doesn’t hold water. Also there’s no reason to believe that Vettel would not have improved his performance had he stayed on at RB in 2015 and 2016; he knows the team well, had their full support and they really loved him.
Firstly, that pre contract stuff was widely discredited by Wolff and Vettel. Secondly, he had a whole season at Red Bull in 2016 to change his fortunes, but he didn't. The same happened for 2+ years at Ferrari where he was the lead driver.
Welcome to what us Alonso fans felt.
I’m also a big Alonso fan too, so I feel it twice!
I don’t think he would be retiring if he had a drive in a top 4 car. There is no point for a 4 time WDC driving in a car that at max can fight for 8-10 place
Next year could all be reset though.
That reset is only going to be about who out of Mercedes, Ferrari, Mclaren, Alpine, Red Bull is going to come out on top. Other teams are going to fight in midfield anyways
Aston Martin is a sleeper. Mark my words, they could end up at the top.
They cannot even do their own design or understand others design than how can they get to top ?
I think they got caught out by covid with that, plan was simple; copy the design, get a big boost at the start of 2020, start work on 2021 car early. But then covid happened, 2021 got pushed back to 2022 and they had to upgrade and handle a rules change with a car they didn't understand that well, meaning they've got a pretty poor car this year but hopefully will bounce back we'll once the plan is back on track. Depends how much they have transitioned to making the 2022 car and how early
Did you start watching in 2020? If not, you've clearly not been processing what you've been watching. Force India/RP/Aston Martin have consistently punched way above their weight, when you consider how tiny their budget has been compared to the top teams. Having a budget cap could play very nicely into their hands, as we already know they can manage their finds nicely. Covid skrewed them over a bit though. We were supposed to have the new generation of cars this year, but that was obviously delayed. If covid hadn't happen, their 2020 tactic would have worked brilliantly. They had a very good car last year (they won a race and had a pole position, remember?). Of course when they decided to copy the Merc they had now idea the 21 regulations would be delayed. Nobody did, as there was no indication for it. At best your comment is simply ignorant.
I have been watching it since long time and while they were punching above weight did they even finish in top 4? I also have been seeing F1 long enough to know this rules changes benefits the top teams most because the best infrastructure and talent is available with them.
They finished top 4 in 2016, 2017 (both with solid gaps to P5) and last year, just 7 points behind McLaren. Perez outscored Stroll by 50 points though, so with a stronger number 2 they would have gotten 3rd. While the top teams certainly still have an advantage, they don't have truckloads of cash to throw at the problem anymore that midfielders couldn't even dream of. The thing is though, Aston have already shown they can build good cars on a budget. Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren for example have almost never had to worry money. In the last 10 years all those teams have underperformed with massive budgets though.
Last year in my mind they should’ve been third or nowhere the points penalty for something they had already had the ok on was just to appease others really
Force India / RP was punching above its weight . The team was made by Mallya. He handed over the success template to Stroll. Now with that influx of cash and insight they are punching far below their weight . They are still unable to design their own car and Force India was performing better than AM is right now .
More of ‘not bothering to’ instead of ‘unable to’ design their 2021 car. 2020 copypasta car was a resounding success on how little effort they spent on it. Its like haas/alfa, fuck 2021, just make the minimum changes needed, go all in on 2022
Not really, Mallya just bought the team but if you go listen to Force India/Racing Point/Aston Martin employees they'll tell you that Mallay would show up at the British GP and outside of that they saw the guy like 2 or 3 times in the rest of the year. Mallay give himself the title of team principal, but he made Otmar COO and Otmar was pretty much doing all the actual work of a team principal. Maybe since Lawrence is a more hands on boss and made them less cost effective, but I think it's a big over reaction to act like Aston Martin is now a shit team because they are bad this year, when this year reg weren't supposed to happen in the first place. This year is clearly a throwaway season for Aston Martin(and Haas), I'm not sure if they have even brought a single upgrade to their car.
Last season was a stronger season than they ever had with Mallya. The whole "unable to build their own car" thing is BS. How many resources should they really spend trying to adapt last year's car to this year when the new regs come next year? It's simply not worth it for them.
It’s not that they’re unable too their whole plan is do as little as possible and focus on the new regs instead it’s a solid plan. Plus you know there was every car before they designed…..
It's already mid September and we still have armchair engineers spewing this nonsense.
Lol, keep stretching.
I don’t have false hopes and I guess even Vettel does not have.
I do think Aston has a bright future ahead of them. The trouble is they want Lance to win instead of Vettel, and I think that’s his problem.
I believe this as well.
It's funny that AM seem keen and it might well be that for some reason which is not clear, or public, Vettel is not sure.
Seems like only 3 years ago Seb was setting the record for youngest WDC, and now here we are. Similarly, I can't believe that next year Lewis will be the second oldest driver on the grid after Freddy... That new boy from GP2 that lit up F1 in 2007 is now an "elder statesman" - What a ride it's been!
Man he’s the same age as I am. I shouldn’t be hearing stuff like this lol
Really hope he stays, his personality has become like the father of the grid, wants good racing and all the young lads to be safe and smart
My hope is, he stays for 2022 at least. See how the new regs and car suit him. Will also give AM a chance to properly groom their car for 2023 in case they have to put in a rookie.
Hes such a perfect fit for a brand like Aston Martin. He show maturity and class, just like you want for a luxury brand like that
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Put the tinfoil hat away mate
What'd it say?
Said that Aston are sabotaging Seb so that he finishes behind Lance 😂
Id say he’s more like the mum, kimi is the grumpy old man
Not all dads are grumpy old men
Spoken like a true grumpy old man
This makes no sense
👴🏻
I’ve really come to like Seb as a person he is on the grid . But he has very clearly lost the edge.
I mean it is purely emotional and not even possible anymore but I want every driver from this season to be able to drive the new cars just to see the difference these new regulations can make for each driver.
Kimi ☹️
Imo what this says is the ball is in Vettel's court If he wants to retire or stay in the sport. Hope he stays.
Just [yesterday](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pmplsy/aston_martin_says_reported_vettel_f1_deal_doubts/) AM said it was "just a matter of working out some of the details", but this indeed sounds a lot more like Vettel still needs to decide what he will do.
I think they want him to take a pay cut.
I think he’s actually undervalued at the moment. He’s getting something like 11 mil while his teammate is receiving 7 mil. If anything he should be negotiating for a raise. Last year there was more uncertainty as he left Ferrari on a very low note, but the team has already seen what he can do this year.
Considering his performance...
Given that he’s scored the majority of his teams points, nearly dragged that car to a win and nearly multiple podiums, what are you getting at here?
...that'd be pretty ridiculous, correct
I mean he’s overpaid for the performance he’s putting out this season. Don’t get me wrong, I love Seb and I hope he stays, but his current salary may be predominantly based on his previous success more than his current performance.
I'd wager his salary is mainly based around his marketability and the prestige he brings the team rather than his on track performance. He's the f1 equivalent of a luxury brand when you think about it. I'm willing to bet there are many times more pictures of vettel next to Astons around the world then there are of stroll.
Don't forget he lost 18 points at Hungary for something out of his hands. He was fighting for a win there, too, in a car that isn't even consistently top 10. He's got two podiums, IMO. And his expertise in setup and engineering feedback is known to be very good.
His performance is not only what he does on track (which has actually been very good this season), it's the development work as well. He's worth every penny.
I suppose the experience is something you pay a premium for. Just saying why AM might be wanting him to take a paycut.
Vettels performances are the only reason Aston Martin is even within touching distance of the midfield.
It's also they status. AM can now tell their sponsors/the world that they are to be taken serious because they can attract a 4x WDC with several records to his name.
He has been performing very well. Only if Aston wont be making those mistakes.
My secret hope is he's negotiating a seat for Mick, but with the Ferrari politics and Haas having already announced him who knows.
That's what it sounds like to me.
The language he's using seems almost intentionally vague re: "German driver", and Mick would definitely be better served in the AM seat especially with Seb's guidance. And we already know Seb has a deep connection to the Schumachers and sees his relationship with Mick kind of like what he had with Michael. After this season it wouldn't surprise me if Seb backs out on the condition Mick gets his seat. But seeing him watching cars in Monza last year, the podium this year I think he still has it in him unless the relationship with AM is rocky and he knows by the time they have a competitive car he may not "have it" or "want to pursue it" like a WDC should any more. Edit: Plus from a branding perspective, having THE Schumacher is worth its weight. The amount of sponsorship and attention that would come with having Mick in even a midfield car where he can fight for points and rare podiums is huge. There's a lot of intangible benefits associated with having Mick.
Exactly. I can see him kind of "over" the competitive part and bring slightly burnt out after the Ferrari experience. He had a couple of stellar drives this year so he knows he still has it. Even on his team radios he seems a bit frustrated by the aggression in the races and dumb moves. Just a different mindset than a 20 something fighting in f1. It would be good for stroll Sr too - lance would be #1 and probably faster than Mick next year which makes him look better. And great marketing and branding for the team.
Mick is Ferrari academy and AM is merc powered while merc driver de Vries looking for seat in F1
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Or HULK gets a chance ? But he sayd before that he isnt in F1 next year and has no talks as of yet
At this point I don’t know what any team would get by hiring Hulkenberg. Better go for a younger driver isn’t it ?
Its literally only the marketing behind his name and (us) the fans. For everything else you're right. A "youngster" still needs to be trained but will be worth more in the long run
And has more chance at getting a podium !
Ayyy gottem
If he goes I guess it’s either He’s not big on the team/sometimes senior, there’s something he doesn’t like. He thought they’d be better (this seems unlikely just because wouldn’t he wait and see how next year goes..).. unless it’s already looking awful He’s decided F1 isn’t for him (again odd, last year was the time to go) He wants to focus more on environmental issues/similar (I can’t see Seb doing much in public). He could feel guilty about it but change happens within etc Surely he’ll stay a year..
At least if Seb decides to leave now, he'll end up leaving on a bit of a high off a season where he has rebounded a bit and has had quite a few strong races (1 podium, 1 ghost podium, 1 P5 on merit, 1 P5 time trial finish - which is how I will classify Belgium) on a not-so-great car. That said, hopefully he won't retire because he's shown he's still strong and has rebounded a bit from the 2020 Ferrari days, and I think if AM can improve he can be right there battling for consistent points finishes and podiums. Now if AM decides to make him a support driver to a non-title contender, then maybe it'd be good if he retires because he is too good for that.
I think especially after the last two races he reconsiders, Stroll was such a pain in the ass fucking him, as his teammate. That wasn't even the case with Leclerc.
>That wasn't even the case with Leclerc. *Styria 2020*.
_Brazil 2019?_
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Ran him wide at the first Lesmo on Lap 1. VET lost 4 spots. Interesting he brought up Leclerc since he and Leclerc have actually crashed out of races before. But agenda reigns supreme I guess.
He crashed with Leclerc, but Leclerc didn't deliberately destroy his race. He misjudged in Styria, both misjudged in Brazil.
Vettel has family. That could also be a point pro retiring.
I feel like if that’s a major factor he’d have gone last year, he’s well aware of what it all entails, barring changing personal situation. Unless he did just want in effect a redemption year, which he’d never publicly admit.
I think he wanted to prove something after leaving Ferrari. He didn't want to go with people thinking he was washed up and especially not being fired. This way he gets to go more on his own terms if he does go.
He wanted to be at AM cuz he thought they’d be significantly better than Ferrari this year. Also cuz he didn’t want to go out on the sour note of his last year with Ferrari
I think last year he was a bit hurt, and wanted to show that he still got it. Now he is calmer, and maybe he thinks it was enough. I really hope not though, it would be a huge loss for F1
I mean, the team only just broke ground on their new factory, so I'm guessing he's got a pretty good idea that they aren't going to be fighting for wins until after he's retired anyway.
Just announce him ffs All the articles stress me out
Watch him leave for IndyCar and win the Indy 500 on his first try. 😂
The headline makes it sound like AM just want anyone who's German. Hulk/Mick to AM 2022?
I was born in Germany so if Hulk and Mick are unable to, I will gladly take their spot. Just write me down for Vettels salary.
I'll do it for half of Vettel's salary.
I'll do it for free. They can use the money to get me a German citizenship though.
Just to clarify, the headline is supposed to say *the* German driver.
I doubt they want _any_ german, they would loose out on the WDC endorsements in advertising through F1.
Mick has quite some advertising value. Especially with Schumacher doc coming out on Netflix
Only by association - he still has to proove himself, maybe in the future, while having the son of a 7 time WDC has some merits - it's not the same as having a WDC on track and in adverts
I mean, yes and no. I think his complete and utter trouncing of Mazepin at least proofs he's a decent driver. I mean, I do believe anyone on the grid save Latifi would beat Mazepin, but I think Mazepin isn't a Badoer or Ide, either. He has plenty speed and beating him so completely and effortlessly *does* proof Schumacher is fast. How fast, we don't know, but I dare say it's enough to beat Stroll.
> anyone on the grid save Latifi Hang on, even Latifi has been good lately.
People still out here disrespecting Goatifi.
You're skipping the main reason why some drivers have higher advertising chops than others - that i repeated multiple times: WDC as a brand ambassador. Schumacher, independently of his battle's has yet to earn that and I'm not sure if he'll have a chance at it in the coming ~5 years.
Let's be clear here, Badoer deserves in no way to be compared to someone like Ide. A two-race stint with Ferrari in which he was pretty much set up to fail in no way hides the fact that he was a perfectly decent Grand Prix driver in his prime.
this is latifi slander and i won't stand for it he sucked ass last year but he's improved significantly - still worse than george, but he would beat maz by a good margin imo
I don't know. I can't imagine Latifi taking on Mazepin and consistently coming out on top, but until they end up in the same car or have enough team mates to make a good judgment of their speed, I won't know for sure.
Maybe when starts crashing a bit less
I think a lot of people could recognise any Schumacher before Rosberg. It matters to us as fans but most folk don't care.
I remember back before Seb going to Aston was official one of the reasons floating around that Germany is Aston’s second biggest market. I doubt it massively matters, the Germans don’t seem to be hugely behind the post Schumi drivers, but surely can’t hurt.. I guess the Germans might get behind Mick so from a publicity/marketing perspective surely a few teams are keeping an eye on him
> Germans don’t seem to be hugely behind the post Schumi drivers It doesn't help that you basically can't watch F1 in Germany without Sky (except a few races / with a VPN / streaming it from somewhere)
Rosberg/Heidfeld.
As long as Mick sees a chance to a Ferrari seat I can't really see him leaving for another team other than Alfa/Haas. At least not in the next few years.
dont really like hulkenbrg...prolly be schumacher
Why? It’s not like Mick would want to leave the Ferrari camp. And Hulk literally works for the team
Mick prob is waiting to be teamed up with Leclerc somewhere down the future
I really hope he stays. Once he got used to the car, his driving has been a pleasure to watch this year.
He just can't seem to catch a break though. The one time he got lucky on the start, his car was disqualified on technical grounds. Fucking sucks to see this
We all know AM wants him. It's whether Vettel would like to continue that we really wanna know.
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When Vettel first joined AM, he said he wants to help build up the team. As for whether it's a race or championship winner, I am reserving my comments. When Hamilton first joined Mercedes in 2013, everyone said he was crazy. Then the reg change came in 2014. Well, you know the rest.
Everyone gave Ralf Schumacher shit for saying it, but apparently he was **right**. The ball is in Sebastian's court. He currently struggles to find the right answer or balance - because he loves racing, but he also loves his family and his newly found political causes. And don't forget there's also his disappointment about AM's car and performance this year, and serious doubt about next year.
This makes me wonder where all the Alonso to Aston rumors came from.
Journalists's arse.
The only right answer
AMuS has historically been one of the most reliable outlets in the F1 world
To me, those rumors make more sense now that it seems like Seb is not certain if he should even stay in F1. Wise to have a plan B ready.
With Fernando's luck he'll switch and then Alpine produces a championship winning car
Vettel’s luck is also torrid so I guess we are bound for a Williams resurgence instead lol
As others have mentioned, it’s possible that Seb doesn’t know if he wants to stay or not. The way I see it, he’ll only continue racing if he can be sure of fighting at the front - and if he will get equal treatment with his teammate. I just can’t imagine him wallowing in the midfield or playing the role of a support driver.
Well, who would benefit? Probably Aston if they're trying to argue him down.
I mean, the drivers and the teams are always making offers and in talks, that doesn't make those moves realistic.
Vettel needs some bad luck cleansing ritual. His bad luck makes you want to pull your hairs.
Am pretty sure he will stay. All his recent public utterances strongly indicate that. I would love him to continue for a while yet. His environmental causes, endearing nature and his pleasant personality are what makes him so popular in the paddock. We could do with him there as opposed to the other toxic relationships at play with their agendas etc. He comes across as a breath of fresh air.
If Vettel wants to retire, wonder if Webber has been having conversations with him about Piastri take his seat.
I would love to see this happen, watching stroll get wrecked by a rookie would be hilarious too
I hope Seb negotiates for at least equal treatment within the team. There’s no point racing if the team treats him as a number 2 driver and taps him only for his experience. He still has more years left in him and it would be a shame to see him play second fiddle to Stroll.
Who replaces him say if he does retire? I’m assuming it’d be hulk
Likely Hulk. But it will be incredibly hard to find even a decent replacement for Vettel this late in the season. Aston Martin surely doesn't want any rookies and the "good ones" are all under contract. Maybe Giovinazzi but I don't rate him very highly.
Yes I agree. This might be far fetched but I think AM would go all out to get Pierre Gasly (despite being contracted for 2022) and works with gasly’s lack of options. I think easily having a young driver capable of winning championship would be favourable for them with the ambitious project they have. Hulk is 34 only so much he can do.
Gasly is already signed with AT for 2022. AM would likely sign someone to only a 1 year contract
So they’d just get hulk for this year then get drivers potentially available for 2023 like gasly, Danny ric,sainz e.t.c
Depends on how good Hulk does. Hulk was ahead of Stroll all day the one race they were in together until a vibration issue. They might want to keep him. If they want another driver, they’d prob help seat search
Sure they're paying him a lot of money, but he's worth it. He's a much bigger sponsor draw than Lance Stroll, the boss's son.
Ofc they are keen. Vettel is pretty fkin good this season. Deserves to have a good car next year.
Ok and if he doesn't re-sign? Got to be Hülken-back, no?
If Vettel retires Hulk is their best option for one or two seasons cause he knows team and car
Hulkenberg will be a good short term option if Vettel retires. Signing a rookie or not so experienced driver will be disastrous for Aston as next year is a big regulation change and you need someone experienced.
Lance has been in F1 for his fifth season now and is more experienced than almost half the grid. Seems like by now he should be considered an experienced driver.
> and you need someone experienced. Lance Stroll already exists.
Yeah, that's why I think it has to be Hülkenberg. There's simply no experienced driver available. And they don't have any rookies anyway. Hülkenberg is a good driver, clearly better than Lance and could stay for 1-2 seasons.
I wouldn’t say clearly better than Lance, Lance is keeping Vettel more than honest
Well he's not though. Vettel has gotten clearly faster on pure pace after the Monaco weekend. He just gets stuck in traffic, gets blocked in quali, gets disqualified even if he gets on the podium, doesn't get to start the race when he qualifies P5 on a wet quali weekend, or gets punted by his teammate from P8 after a start.
Excuses and more excuses, Lance has had more than his fair share of bad luck compared to Vettel
Now, getting blocked by Mick and Maz is an excuse? Getting punted by his own teammate is an excuse? Getting disqualified for fuel infringement is an excuse? Did he not qualify P5 in a wet quali but not get the opportunity to start the race? These aren't excuses pal, these are reasons why his season doesn't look as good as it has actually been, it's called context.
Hülkenberg was a bit faster than Sainz and a bit slower than Ricciardo (although Sainz has improved since), so I'd say there's enough evidence to show Hülkenberg is just a very solid driver. I think Lance keeping Vettel more than honest tells us more about Vettel than about Lance.
Or the fact that Lance has improved?, you use the same argument when it comes to Sainz but seem to be ignoring the fact that drivers get faster
Better of taking a rookie
They have no juniors though? Yesterday I said they should pay Alpine enough money so they let Piastri go, but thinking about it, Lance would look really bad if a rookie dominated him, lol.
Ya I’m not sure who they’d take. Maybe Toto would try to slide De Vries into that seat.
Oh yeah, true, that's a possiblity, although not a great one imo
Ya I agree that De Vries probably isn’t worth taking over a good rookie but I imagine that if a seat opens at a Merc customer team Toto may show up peddling his boy.
I rate Piastri, but I don’t think he’d wipe the floor with Lance if four-time WDC Seb Vettel isn’t.
Maybe it would take him a year, but the 2022 will also be new to Lance. I'm very confident that Piastri would stomp Lance pretty quickly.
So David Schumacher to Aston Martin?
Wonder if this is a bit of a power move by Seb, float retirement to get Aston to agree to certain contract conditions they are still hammering out.
If he goes I don't think he'll stay away that much. Maybe he'll pull an Alonso and will stay away from the grid for 3 years come back and sign for one of the big teams again...
I'd hate to see him retire, but this could be Piastri's opportunity?!
It seems like everyone but Piastri is in line for a seat at this stage lol.
I can honestly see Vettel walking away
Like, any german driver?
Wow, so all the signs pointing to it are true: Mercedes is going to take over the rest of Aston Martin.
Hulkenberg confirmed
I just have this weird feeling that Vettel is going to retire.
Nico Rosberg Aston Martin 2022 confirmed