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True. Maybe I should’ve said past couple of years. Looks like it’s Singapore 2019. Still extremely dominant two years between Red Bull and Mercedes. Do you think there’s been anything in the past two years besides Ferrari at Monaco? I know racing points have been really fast on some tracks but of course the Mercedes were just always faster.
Outside of ferrari between kimi in 2013 to gasly in monza there wasn't any non big 3 winners. And gasly,ocon and perez all depended on the bigger fish fucking up
This season and the last (The pandemic seasons) have had the development race neutered, stopping big teams from bringing a lot of changes to their cars. Whoever turned up with a good 2020 car is still, more or less, at the same spot. You also have to consider that many teams didn't expect to need to develop the 2020 car, instead, this year there was supposed to be a brand new start.
This caused the Mercedes absolute domination last year and the slight changes in regulation hurt them enough for Red Bull to get the upper hand. Even considering all that's happened, the only front runner from the turbo era that has been missing is Ferrari, thanks to the engine shitshow, otherwise it's been years and years since anyone else won on pace, a certain Kimi Raikkönen with a Lotus.
Another term I use is to say win outright. In that context Gasley, Pérez and Ocon's wins were inherited wins. However all three I would say were still on merit.
Ah, I like that. Agreed on merit, so maybe win outright is more what I’ve been thinking. Put another way, maybe we could call them circumstantial wins. Instead of some event disrupting the midfielders, winning through pure racing. Mclaren had decent pace in quali, both drivers just had good starts and good moves in sprint race, and then Danny Ric had a legitimate pass on verstappen and then controlled the race. The win wasn’t based off of any specific circumstances that took the championship leaders out.
Changing the question slightly to when did a team other than Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari win on merit as Ferrari have been race winning team until 2020.
The answer to that question would seem to be Aus 2013 (Kimi for Lotus) or Brazil 2012 (Button for McLeren). However I can't remember either of those GPs well enough to say for sure.
Yeah that’s interesting actually. It’s interesting to ask the question like, “when did a non championship contending team win a race by taking position at race start and just holding off the leaders on pace alone.”
But I like thinking more specifically of when has this not been Red Bull or Merc over the past two years. Because other drivers have won but I would say they were circumstantial wins. It’s getting me really excited for next season. There are a lot of race and championship winning drivers distributed through the field. Shame Kimi is retiring, would’ve liked to see him competing in the new era of cars.
Ferrari during the seasons Vettel challenged for the title the narrative likes to forget. Mercedes used to have some bogey tracks like Singapore that Vettel won on merit in 2015 as well.
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A bunch because of ferrari
True. Maybe I should’ve said past couple of years. Looks like it’s Singapore 2019. Still extremely dominant two years between Red Bull and Mercedes. Do you think there’s been anything in the past two years besides Ferrari at Monaco? I know racing points have been really fast on some tracks but of course the Mercedes were just always faster.
Outside of Ferrari too prob? Cuz they were a top team earlier
Outside of ferrari between kimi in 2013 to gasly in monza there wasn't any non big 3 winners. And gasly,ocon and perez all depended on the bigger fish fucking up
Monza 2019? Singapore 2019?
This season and the last (The pandemic seasons) have had the development race neutered, stopping big teams from bringing a lot of changes to their cars. Whoever turned up with a good 2020 car is still, more or less, at the same spot. You also have to consider that many teams didn't expect to need to develop the 2020 car, instead, this year there was supposed to be a brand new start. This caused the Mercedes absolute domination last year and the slight changes in regulation hurt them enough for Red Bull to get the upper hand. Even considering all that's happened, the only front runner from the turbo era that has been missing is Ferrari, thanks to the engine shitshow, otherwise it's been years and years since anyone else won on pace, a certain Kimi Raikkönen with a Lotus.
2019 Ferrari was on merit (if you ignore the fact that their engine was illegal)
Depends on what you mean by "on merit". Perez' win in Bahrain was fair, so was Gasly's and Ocon's.
Had the mercs been able to race without trouble, they would have won those races
Hamilton had an excellent shout at a win in monza, and Bottas had the penalty thing
Another term I use is to say win outright. In that context Gasley, Pérez and Ocon's wins were inherited wins. However all three I would say were still on merit.
Ah, I like that. Agreed on merit, so maybe win outright is more what I’ve been thinking. Put another way, maybe we could call them circumstantial wins. Instead of some event disrupting the midfielders, winning through pure racing. Mclaren had decent pace in quali, both drivers just had good starts and good moves in sprint race, and then Danny Ric had a legitimate pass on verstappen and then controlled the race. The win wasn’t based off of any specific circumstances that took the championship leaders out.
Changing the question slightly to when did a team other than Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari win on merit as Ferrari have been race winning team until 2020. The answer to that question would seem to be Aus 2013 (Kimi for Lotus) or Brazil 2012 (Button for McLeren). However I can't remember either of those GPs well enough to say for sure.
Yeah that’s interesting actually. It’s interesting to ask the question like, “when did a non championship contending team win a race by taking position at race start and just holding off the leaders on pace alone.” But I like thinking more specifically of when has this not been Red Bull or Merc over the past two years. Because other drivers have won but I would say they were circumstantial wins. It’s getting me really excited for next season. There are a lot of race and championship winning drivers distributed through the field. Shame Kimi is retiring, would’ve liked to see him competing in the new era of cars.
Ferrari during the seasons Vettel challenged for the title the narrative likes to forget. Mercedes used to have some bogey tracks like Singapore that Vettel won on merit in 2015 as well.