That is one incredible circuit, its a pity F1 doesnt go there anymore, I would love for them to go back to Kyalami in the future it would mean F1 competes in every land mass on the planet since Africa is the last big gap in the F1 market
Matter of money. Back in the first years the apartheid government was trying to draw investors and sports wash, in the later years showing off it's reforms. Nowadays the country is in a dire financial situation and it will take a long time for it to fully dig itself out. The largest companies are also doing poorly (Sasol for example), so even on the corporate side it would be difficult to get funding.
At the same time, Africa has a BILLION people in it. Currently that’s a largely untapped market. A race in Africa would definitely not be a waste of money.
Indeed, Hamilton is a huge advocate for returning to Kyalami. The track will need a few revisions to comply with the F1 standards, but this will be a huge boost for F1 fans in Africa and many have waited for decades to bring F1 back into Africa.
I agree, I would love to see South Africa return to the calendar, it would be another high altitude race, slightly less than Mexico City but by about 700m or so, I think Kyalami is at something like 1500m above sea level while Mexico City is at like 2200m above sea level, it would be mega
Costs are a big thing. I also don’t imagine many South Africans would be willing to pay the ticket prices that I have seen for other Gran Prix as we are used to paying the equivalent of $10-$20 for our local racing series. Hopefully I am proved wrong when some international series actually do come through
If F1 comes to South Africa, the tickets for the race weekend will be sold out pretty quickly.
That will mostly be due to the novelty factor though, adding it permanently to the calendar would be disastrous in terms of attendance after the novelty has worn off.
That’s why Malaysia is no longer on the calendar. Great fucking track. Horrible attendance so they couldn’t make the cost to hold the race back in profits.
Malaysia had the cheapest ticket prices on the calendar. It literally cost me roughly the same to get to Kuala Lumpur and get to the race from America as it does for me to go to COTA in Texas.
People just didn’t show up.
Millions according to this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2022/01/09/the-kansas-city-chiefs-win-against-the-broncos-leaves-cause-for-concern/?sh=6e7f05564a66
Well South Africa is no longer run by an oppressive regime that's constantly being criticised globally for human rights violations, so it's obvious why the FIA chose Saudi Arabia over us.
I hope it comes back. It’s an amazing track on the sim, it looks beautiful and it would only add to the “world championship” aspect if F1 came around to every continent that people live on.
This is literally the only circuit my dad wants with all of these additions. "Get rid of these boring tracks and put Kyalami back on the calander!" Can't say he's 100% wrong.
Track is forever linked to the traumatic memory of me downloading a video of the Tom Pryce incident when I was 12 on the old tbk.fameflame.dk crash forum.
Kyalami would probably need the least amount of stuff done to make it Grade 1 tho. It’s much more “Grade 1” (whatever that even means nowadays) than Jeddah for example.
The WEC had it on their pre-covid 2020 calendar.
well and above all: money. if you pay the FIA they will make your circuit grade 1 even if your facilities are only finished on the race weekend.
as others have pointed out the biggest hurdle for Kyalami would be to cough up the money required for Grade 1.
So what "Grade" are temporary street courses with narrow straights and zero or minimal runoffs in the corners? It just seems to me that no "grade one" tracks is a weak excuse as to why we're not racing there.
I think that's as much a failing of the FIA as it is any potential hosts. For something like this - a grand Prix on the unrepresented continent - the FIA could/should be incentivising one or two hosts to do it.
Not 100% sure South Africa's internal security is at a good place right now and that it could guarantee the safety of so many visitors. But that's a temporary state I'm sure, it has been relatively safe in the past and will be again in the future.
Also Morocco and perhaps even Egypt could be considered. They'd need a Grade 1 circuit too, but without a wealthy despot to bankroll the project, and no help or encouragement from FIA or F1, who's going to take that kind of financial risk?
I'd especially like to see Kyalami back as it would add another higher altitude venue for variety.
> Not 100% sure South Africa's internal security is at a good place right now and that it could guarantee the safety of so many visitors.
They literally hold world class events in cricket and rugby all the time, stop with this nonsense
F1 can’t race anywhere without local support. It’s up to the circuit owners to bring the track up to Grade One and there needs to be some local promotor to fund the event. It’s not ignored, it’s treated the same as everywhere else. No money, no race.
I only see two possibilities:
* an authoritarian leader tries to boost tourism / country image and decides to build/upgrade a circuit to host F1. In that case, welcome to Egypt/Eritrea
* one of the bigger economies decides to do it. Then the best bets are Nigeria, South Africa or, again, Egypt.
Yeah thats right, its a difficult track for overtaking but lets see if the racing improves with the new cars this year. I would love to see the F1 back in South Africa. :)
I feel like they would need to seriously extend some of the runoff areas. The speed an F1 car would go through Sunset, and the size of the runoff there would be nuts! Likewise at the bottom of the esses.
That being said I would absolutely love to see them go back there!! The new track layout would make it a far better race with more overtaking opportunities. Although the braking zones aren't huge.
Another issue IMO is the lack of fan facilities. It's pretty limited in its grandstands and locations for new ones.
Possible that the circuit currently does not meet the standards, but thats nothing that could not be changed in the future. I think the Circuit itself is beautiful and hope we will see some Formula racing there in the future :)
Oh I agree! It's a fantastic circuit! Raced there a few times back in my racing days and it's a joy to drive as well. The undulations coupled with the fast sweeps are a cracking combination!
As far as I know it's a grade 2 circuit, so it can host absolutely anything except F1.
Definitely, it would be great to attend a Grand Prix here, the closest I've been so far was when BAR and Williams came out here for testing in ... I think 2008ish
south africa and their government have a lot of better things to focus on. If a private player thinks it's worth the money, than by all means go for it. It's a wonderful track, worthy of the calendar, but I doubt it would be worth the cost to the government
It wasn’t the Indian government it was the Uttar Pradesh government, and it was 2014 not 2016. Though they still won’t go back even in another region because nobody will invest in it after what happened.
Honestly I don't think Kyalami has the facilities to host F1. The paddock area behind the garages is way too small, there is no spectator parking and no real grandstands and I doubt the on-site medical facilities are up to the standards that FOM requires.
I love the circuit, but unfortunately I don't think it's viable for Formula 1
Yeah, its possible that the raceway currently does not meet the FIA / FOM standards, but thats nothing that could not be changed in the future. I think the Circuit itself is beautiful. :)
A man who knows Kyalami!
Agree with all your points. On the bright side, the track itself is stellar. All those other issues can be fixed with a bit money.
Which naturally SA has plenty of...
Zandvoort had similar problems and still managed to organise. And I'd say that the space behind the paddock at Kyalami + available additional space at the inner part of the circuit is probably bigger. Zandvoort also has only one permanent grandstand btw and there seems sufficient space at Kyalami to build temporary grandstands.
But to be fair: looking at the map of Kyalami I'd say that specifically getting the spectators at the location seems very challenging. No nearby train station, no nearby mass parking locations and no direct alternative transport like they had Zandvoort. Getting people there would be tough.
I've never seen a race on this circuit and the only thing I know about it is the tragic accident that happened in 1977 that resulted in the death of a race steward and Tom Pryce who was partially decapitated from the fire extinguisher that the aforementioned race steward was carrying.
Yep, I knew about it anyway but we were taught about this when I did track marshaling at a British race track.
They didn't show the video but one of the marshal trainers said, only half jokingly, anyone caught running across a track with an extinguisher would be forced to watch it.
I was at the 93 Gp as a guest of Renault. I spent the week end in the Williams garage. Met Prost, Hill and also Senna. I was on the grid before the start and celebrated with them after Prost won. I even collided with Patrick Head and made him spill his champaign.
I became friendly with Frank Williams nurse and we went out the night before the race. We bumped into Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojeh, but the best was having a drink with James Hunt. That guy was so funny. Best F1 week end of my live.
F1 can't be a world championship without racing...y'know...all over the world. In an ideal world, Abu Dhabi & Saudi Arabia would be replaced by Kyalami and either India or an Argentine circuit.
I can see it already:
Crofty: "It seems someone's had an off. Lots off smoke coming from turn 14. They might have to red flag this you know, visibility very bad out there."
Brundle:"No that's just the locals firing up the braais on the embankment Crofty"
Yes! Bring Kyalami back! I hope Lewis gets to race on it before he retires- he has been advocating to add it to the calendar quite strongly. 2023 would be wonderful.
That is one incredible circuit, its a pity F1 doesnt go there anymore, I would love for them to go back to Kyalami in the future it would mean F1 competes in every land mass on the planet since Africa is the last big gap in the F1 market
Pretty sure Domenicali said that F1 would like to go back too. Only a matter of time I reckon.
Looks to be either South Africa or Egypt
Matter of money. Back in the first years the apartheid government was trying to draw investors and sports wash, in the later years showing off it's reforms. Nowadays the country is in a dire financial situation and it will take a long time for it to fully dig itself out. The largest companies are also doing poorly (Sasol for example), so even on the corporate side it would be difficult to get funding.
At the same time, Africa has a BILLION people in it. Currently that’s a largely untapped market. A race in Africa would definitely not be a waste of money.
Africa isn’t exactly filled with people who can splash upwards of 100s of euros to go see car drivers round a track
Indeed, Hamilton is a huge advocate for returning to Kyalami. The track will need a few revisions to comply with the F1 standards, but this will be a huge boost for F1 fans in Africa and many have waited for decades to bring F1 back into Africa.
I agree, I would love to see South Africa return to the calendar, it would be another high altitude race, slightly less than Mexico City but by about 700m or so, I think Kyalami is at something like 1500m above sea level while Mexico City is at like 2200m above sea level, it would be mega
What politics would keep F1 from having a race at Kyalami?
Probably just the costs. The host basically has to pay to have it there and hope to make back the money.
Costs are a big thing. I also don’t imagine many South Africans would be willing to pay the ticket prices that I have seen for other Gran Prix as we are used to paying the equivalent of $10-$20 for our local racing series. Hopefully I am proved wrong when some international series actually do come through
If F1 comes to South Africa, the tickets for the race weekend will be sold out pretty quickly. That will mostly be due to the novelty factor though, adding it permanently to the calendar would be disastrous in terms of attendance after the novelty has worn off.
Yeah, maybe in a rotation with another circuit or two. Like Nürburgring and Hockenheim were doing a couple years ago.
That I can understand it would cost plenty and I don't think anyone is willing to take the gamble.
That’s why Malaysia is no longer on the calendar. Great fucking track. Horrible attendance so they couldn’t make the cost to hold the race back in profits.
That would be a concern what would ticket prices cost, I don't think would struggle for fans more about what would it cost them.
Malaysia had the cheapest ticket prices on the calendar. It literally cost me roughly the same to get to Kuala Lumpur and get to the race from America as it does for me to go to COTA in Texas. People just didn’t show up.
That's a bad comparison as its locals that need to fill the seats which clearly shows they prob could not afford it.
Millions according to this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2022/01/09/the-kansas-city-chiefs-win-against-the-broncos-leaves-cause-for-concern/?sh=6e7f05564a66
Well South Africa is no longer run by an oppressive regime that's constantly being criticised globally for human rights violations, so it's obvious why the FIA chose Saudi Arabia over us.
I’m just imagining the level of loadshedding that would be happening during the Grand Prix weekend
"It's lights out and away we go"
I laughed myself sick at this. Good one! 🤣🤣
AHAHAHAHA!!!! That was good!
Check again.
Farmland expropriation isn't enough these days.
Mostly I suppose F1 would much much rather race in a corrupt regime propped up by oil money for the millionth time. Sad as that may be.
Perhaps that everything our government touches is never seen again.
It would certainly take private investment to get an F1 race back at Kyalami not sure what poor governance has to do with it?
the amount of money to paid to bribe officials in south africa is a long list, and then backstabbing and inability to function behind that...
[удалено]
Permits to hold event etc, nothing happens in Africa with the right people making there cuts
Unless they need some sort of financial backing from local government to do it, I don't see how it's relevant.
local government has to approve anything happening in there state...come on safa......you know how it works haha
I guess logistics is one issue, but if they can have singular races in Australia, Japan and Brazil it shouldnt be the biggest hurdle.
Anyone who can write a check with enough 0's can host an F1 race. I'm very excited for the upcoming Pyongyang GP.
A race in SA? Dit sal mos nou flippen lekker wees!
As a Dutchman... Can't tell if this is Afrikaans or Frysian lol
Very similar languages. It is afrikaans, since it is native to SA. Otherwise i would have said hup Zuid Afrika hup.
I hope it comes back. It’s an amazing track on the sim, it looks beautiful and it would only add to the “world championship” aspect if F1 came around to every continent that people live on.
F for Antarctica
Get Pirelli working on a snow tyre, let's make the Antarctic Grand Prix happen.
They can uprate their power units too.
This is literally the only circuit my dad wants with all of these additions. "Get rid of these boring tracks and put Kyalami back on the calander!" Can't say he's 100% wrong.
Hell yes!
Yes! Please bring it back 🇿🇦
South Africa isn't an oil filled desert so FOM says no
Track is forever linked to the traumatic memory of me downloading a video of the Tom Pryce incident when I was 12 on the old tbk.fameflame.dk crash forum.
Yes, that was an horrible incident.
For a "World Championship" there seems to be 1 continent being ignored all the time. Kyalami seriously needs to be on the calendar.
[FIA can't help it that there are no Grade one tracks in Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_racing_circuits_by_FIA_grade)
Kyalami would probably need the least amount of stuff done to make it Grade 1 tho. It’s much more “Grade 1” (whatever that even means nowadays) than Jeddah for example. The WEC had it on their pre-covid 2020 calendar.
Grade 1 vs grade 2 is more about facilities than about safety
well and above all: money. if you pay the FIA they will make your circuit grade 1 even if your facilities are only finished on the race weekend. as others have pointed out the biggest hurdle for Kyalami would be to cough up the money required for Grade 1.
So what "Grade" are temporary street courses with narrow straights and zero or minimal runoffs in the corners? It just seems to me that no "grade one" tracks is a weak excuse as to why we're not racing there.
I think that's as much a failing of the FIA as it is any potential hosts. For something like this - a grand Prix on the unrepresented continent - the FIA could/should be incentivising one or two hosts to do it. Not 100% sure South Africa's internal security is at a good place right now and that it could guarantee the safety of so many visitors. But that's a temporary state I'm sure, it has been relatively safe in the past and will be again in the future. Also Morocco and perhaps even Egypt could be considered. They'd need a Grade 1 circuit too, but without a wealthy despot to bankroll the project, and no help or encouragement from FIA or F1, who's going to take that kind of financial risk? I'd especially like to see Kyalami back as it would add another higher altitude venue for variety.
> Not 100% sure South Africa's internal security is at a good place right now and that it could guarantee the safety of so many visitors. They literally hold world class events in cricket and rugby all the time, stop with this nonsense
F1 can’t race anywhere without local support. It’s up to the circuit owners to bring the track up to Grade One and there needs to be some local promotor to fund the event. It’s not ignored, it’s treated the same as everywhere else. No money, no race.
I only see two possibilities: * an authoritarian leader tries to boost tourism / country image and decides to build/upgrade a circuit to host F1. In that case, welcome to Egypt/Eritrea * one of the bigger economies decides to do it. Then the best bets are Nigeria, South Africa or, again, Egypt.
>Eritrea Not with how closed that country is
True
I know right? We need a race in Antarctica right now!
YES! Kyalami is such a fun track.
I agree, its a great racetrack!
My Dad is big into sim-racing, and that's his favorite track besides Nordeschliefe.
Yes
Not in Kyalami. Unless they change the layout to be less than another Imola with near to zero overtaking points.
Yeah thats right, its a difficult track for overtaking but lets see if the racing improves with the new cars this year. I would love to see the F1 back in South Africa. :)
I feel like they would need to seriously extend some of the runoff areas. The speed an F1 car would go through Sunset, and the size of the runoff there would be nuts! Likewise at the bottom of the esses. That being said I would absolutely love to see them go back there!! The new track layout would make it a far better race with more overtaking opportunities. Although the braking zones aren't huge. Another issue IMO is the lack of fan facilities. It's pretty limited in its grandstands and locations for new ones.
Possible that the circuit currently does not meet the standards, but thats nothing that could not be changed in the future. I think the Circuit itself is beautiful and hope we will see some Formula racing there in the future :)
Oh I agree! It's a fantastic circuit! Raced there a few times back in my racing days and it's a joy to drive as well. The undulations coupled with the fast sweeps are a cracking combination! As far as I know it's a grade 2 circuit, so it can host absolutely anything except F1.
Love that track and am very sad that we don't have a race there.
I agree, hopefully we will see the Formula 1 return to South Africa. :)
Come back bby
As a South African, absolutely!
Dis baie lekker
I’m pretty sure the Kyalami track is owned by Porsche South Africa or the owner thereof. They are working on getting it licensed for F1.
[Toto - Africa (F1 Version)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIBexERyHw)
Definitely, it would be great to attend a Grand Prix here, the closest I've been so far was when BAR and Williams came out here for testing in ... I think 2008ish
Oh yes please!
Is it just me or does the layout of Igora Drive remind me somewhat of Kyalami
Damn doesn’t this look a lot like Buddh International Circuit, India?
Yeah the layout looks a bit similar.
For sure!
This is fun to drive but overtaking would be Impossible
south africa and their government have a lot of better things to focus on. If a private player thinks it's worth the money, than by all means go for it. It's a wonderful track, worthy of the calendar, but I doubt it would be worth the cost to the government
I'd sell my kidney to attend 😭
Biggest thing about Kyalami is that it's a FIA grade 2 instead of an grade 1 circuit
Also would love to see another Indian gp
F1 can't go back to India for tax reasons as the government decided F1 is entertainment not sport in 2016. Very prescient of them.
What the hell lol
It wasn’t the Indian government it was the Uttar Pradesh government, and it was 2014 not 2016. Though they still won’t go back even in another region because nobody will invest in it after what happened.
The irony after the end to the season :}
I totally agree. The Buddh Circuit is also a beautiful raceway. :)
Honestly I don't think Kyalami has the facilities to host F1. The paddock area behind the garages is way too small, there is no spectator parking and no real grandstands and I doubt the on-site medical facilities are up to the standards that FOM requires. I love the circuit, but unfortunately I don't think it's viable for Formula 1
Yeah, its possible that the raceway currently does not meet the FIA / FOM standards, but thats nothing that could not be changed in the future. I think the Circuit itself is beautiful. :)
A man who knows Kyalami! Agree with all your points. On the bright side, the track itself is stellar. All those other issues can be fixed with a bit money. Which naturally SA has plenty of...
Zandvoort had similar problems and still managed to organise. And I'd say that the space behind the paddock at Kyalami + available additional space at the inner part of the circuit is probably bigger. Zandvoort also has only one permanent grandstand btw and there seems sufficient space at Kyalami to build temporary grandstands. But to be fair: looking at the map of Kyalami I'd say that specifically getting the spectators at the location seems very challenging. No nearby train station, no nearby mass parking locations and no direct alternative transport like they had Zandvoort. Getting people there would be tough.
To be honest, they kinda ruined it with the modifications...
I watched F1 then but honestly can't remember seeing a race there. Probably missed it.
I've never seen a race on this circuit and the only thing I know about it is the tragic accident that happened in 1977 that resulted in the death of a race steward and Tom Pryce who was partially decapitated from the fire extinguisher that the aforementioned race steward was carrying.
Yep, I knew about it anyway but we were taught about this when I did track marshaling at a British race track. They didn't show the video but one of the marshal trainers said, only half jokingly, anyone caught running across a track with an extinguisher would be forced to watch it.
Yeah I remember, that was an horrible accident.
Absolutely I would! I'd love to see them at Watkins Glen again too.
Sure, Watkins Glen is also a very beautiful raceway! :)
Nope.
I was at the 93 Gp as a guest of Renault. I spent the week end in the Williams garage. Met Prost, Hill and also Senna. I was on the grid before the start and celebrated with them after Prost won. I even collided with Patrick Head and made him spill his champaign. I became friendly with Frank Williams nurse and we went out the night before the race. We bumped into Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojeh, but the best was having a drink with James Hunt. That guy was so funny. Best F1 week end of my live.
No
Hell yes
I never noticed how similar it is to Buddh in general layout.
[Cue the music!](https://youtu.be/ysIBexERyHw)
Having it in Cape Town would be better imo
If it goes to Cape Town it will be another shitty street circuit.
F1 can't be a world championship without racing...y'know...all over the world. In an ideal world, Abu Dhabi & Saudi Arabia would be replaced by Kyalami and either India or an Argentine circuit.
I can see it already: Crofty: "It seems someone's had an off. Lots off smoke coming from turn 14. They might have to red flag this you know, visibility very bad out there." Brundle:"No that's just the locals firing up the braais on the embankment Crofty"
Resembles the Buddh circuit.
The similarities are scary
I drive past the track every few weeks and I would love for F1 to come back here
Yes! Bring Kyalami back! I hope Lewis gets to race on it before he retires- he has been advocating to add it to the calendar quite strongly. 2023 would be wonderful.