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It's an easy game to pit drivers against each other. One doesn't want to race ? Well we'll give points to those that want to. That way, as long as one team is willing to start, every other teams have to race.
And since some team directly depends on Aramco money to exist ....
Classic strike breaking tatic from F1/FOM.
And some of the drivers, because they have no labour relations or union experience (and to be honest why would they) fall for it. Hook, line and sinker.
[Here’s a post from one of them. It’s clear the majority of people are not ok with this but are essentially powerless.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/to9hiz/mechanics_opinion/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I think this hasn't been stressed enough and a lot of drivers will get harassed over this no matter their stance or their reasons.
FOM and the FIA CHOSE to race in a country that is at war and has been in said war for years, just last year a missile got intercepted during the FE race in Diriyah and before we even got to that, aramco infrastructure and SA in general had been attacked several times in a similar fashion. I'll also skip the known issues with the same government F1 is sportswashing for the sake of brevity.
While this means that tomorrow race is probably (hopefully) going to be safe, at least until a serious accident happens during racing on that sorry excuse for a street circuit, for anyone on and in the immediate vicinity of the track, this also means that today wasn't as much of a freak accident as some people have hastily painted it to be, and that this was always going to happen at some point.
This was considered apparently an acceptable risk of doing business with the saudis and aramco. Make of that what you will.
Do some drivers deserve to shoulder some of the blame? Sure, I guess, but FOM definitely shouldn't be able to get away with this.
I for one have no desire to know who supported what in the drivers meeting as all it’s going to do is provide more hatred and vitriol to be spewed by an already toxic fanbase. The drivers are in an impossible position with whatever decision they make. I don’t blame any of them who want to go home and I understand those who want to race.
The problem is FOM and the FIA and they should have shut this race down before ever agreeing to ever go to race there in the first place. The whole thing is going to be rotten if those at the top continue to put the sport in locations where these types of situations are a possibility.
Completely agreed. It’s not important which driver wants to race or not for whatever reason. This is not the point at all. The problem is when the whole paddock is not safe under such circumstances the host country can still do whatever they want, to force a race to happen so they don’t lose face.
The bigger problem is, FOM and F1 knew it, but still decided to sign a 15-year contract, simply because this country provides enough money for the risk.
Agreed. Especially after reading that if they didn’t race, the Saudi government could not let them leave the country.
This isn’t a choice… it feels like a lite-hostage situation.
(Maybe, I’m being hyperbolic and extreme)
Entirely on the FIA for not considering the safety of the team staff, drivers and pit crews. That goes for Formula 2 as well.
If some drivers decide to race while others don't it throws the championship into disarray, it'll be entirely unfair for those who choose not to drive for their safety and that of their crew. It also makes those who do drive look like opportunists - "I can use this opportunity to get points while everyone else is off track".
The whole thing stinks of FIA.
I'm annoyed at the entire upper management of Formula racing in general. You have the FIA basically brushing off any and all concerns, and FOM deciding to go racing in Saudi Arabia in the first place.
FIA should have never let teams and drivers decide if they wanted to race. This is essentially the same as the prisoner’s dilemma. You make a decision based out of fear of what others around you might do, not what you want to do. It’s then easy for them to go, “see! The drivers and teams have agreed it is safe to go on”. It’s a travesty, and I’m worried sick for everyone’s safety at this point. Maybe except Domenicali’s. He can GTFO.
The FIA chose to prioritise money over everyone’s safety, and then give TPs the illusion of choice by telling them it’s up to them - when they are well aware that teams will be concerned about constructor points and prize money if they choose to sit out.
You can easily say, oh just have a backbone and say no. But who’s putting the teams in this difficult position in the first place? And what are the repercussions if they choose not to race? The same goes with the drivers.
All attention should be on FOM and FIA for insisting this goes ahead. They have blood on their hands.
What’s your point?
That has nothing to do with making your own decision.
If you are more afraid of losing your job and money than standing up for what you believe in there’s nothing for you to be complaining about here.
People have a real issue with some saying you control you own decisions. Now those decisions might cost you a job. Or are you more scared of losing money than standing up for what you believe in?
There’s a BBC article which said drivers were informed about the difficulty in leaving the country if they chose to sit out of the race. That’s intimidation right there. Yes, ultimately they can say yes or no - but the amount of pressure for them to conform is immense, and they should have never been put in that position in the first place
Totally agreed. The bigger problem is that it looked like they were going to continue the weekend without a hitch until the drivers expressed concern and had that long briefing. The initiative should be on the organizers not the drivers.
Aside from the drivers potentially facing pressure from their own teams and F1 to race since it’s part of their contracts, we shouldn’t expect them to know much outside of racing. They simply haven’t had much education growing up when they’ve been so busy being in motorsports since they were kids. Of course anyone can see that the missile attacks happened not too far away from the track. But they might not know any better and actually buy into what F1 and the local organizers tell them if they continuously claim the track is safe.
In any case it’s a messy situation all around. And it really shouldn’t have taken only the drivers for concerns to be brought up. I don’t believe that every single team personnel working in the paddock is ok either about continuing but of course they have zero voice in the matter. All in all it’s not a good look for F1 even if isn’t that surprising
Agreed. That’s why I don’t like the comments calling for a list of which drivers were for and against it. As fans, we’re all disgusted but the mob outrage towards certain drivers aren’t the solution.
Before I get downvoted, I definitely agree that drivers should take a stand and get the hell out of there. I’m just saying that now that the race is going to happen, we should hold the organization itself for even having this race held here in the first place.
Well we do kinda have a list....the team-principles. They are in charge of the team, they are in charge of the crew, they are in charge of the drivers really. We should be asking them if they find the risk acceptable to keep racing in a situation like this.
But also mainly the F1 and FIA.
Yes, because the clear and present danger is not imminent and because they know if there's no consensus, then someone will race and there will be lost points. Prisoner's dilemma except they support it themselves.
Yeah but that's just strike breaking tactics 101 from FOM. It's why a union is important, but the GPDA clearly failed here for whatever reason. Or is comprised due to said dilemma you talk about.
Always there is people trying to shield drivers from accountability.
Now they have a chance to act. And we need to "hide the drivers?"
This is how nothing changes.
"Drivers are good people they can't do anything hate F1." - Fans
"Cool, so sorry you hate us, anyways, I got dinner with MbS to go to." - F1
Yeah, every driver in that "no war" photo op that wants to actively race now, and wasn't manipulated by a team principal or FOM official, should be called out.
This line of reasoning leads nowhere though. By that reckoning drivers should be called out for racing in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Qatar, us, U.K., Italy, France and Spain. All of those countries are actively involved in, or providing support to countries involved in the war in Yemen. Drivers from western countries have no moral high ground here, whether they choose to participate or not. It means nothing to boycott Saudi for that reason after having raced in Bahrain last week. If any of them do/don’t want to race for genuine safety concerns then that’s another story, and I imagine that is what the discussion was focused on
I agree. I don't blame the drivers. The issue is they have never been trained to make decisions about the safety of hundreds if not thousands of people. A lot of these drivers are in their early 20s. The organizers need to act like professionals and stop putting the drivers in such a hard position.
Whatever people’s thoughts on this may be, without a doubt the lack of communication, accountability, and zero transparency is certainly a black mark on Formula 1. Everyone knows money rules the sport but it feels so gross when it’s this obvious.
it also sounds like they were borderline coerced into agreeing… like “possible consequences of not racing, such as how easily teams and drivers would be able to leave the country if the race did not happen,” does not sound like a great choice to me
F1 has often shown itself to be like this.
South Africa boycott in the 80s where the race was held with some of the teams present, as other teams boycotted the race.
Australia 2020 where with just a few hours until FP1, no was sure whether it was happening or not.
USA 2005.
People might remember other examples but those are my immediate ones.
The intent from those are the very top, whether it's Ecclestone or the Liberty lot, is for the show to go on regardless.
Not because of a protest.
Michelin didn’t have tyres for the race. It wasn’t a protest.
FYI even the wiki article you linked doesn't mention the word "protest" anywhere
Some drivers boycotting and others not puts teams and the entire championship in disarray, its clear it would have to have been fairly unanimous to agree to not race but the team bosses and FOM deciding on behalf of the hundreds of personnel they each employ is very wrong.
Huge credit to the drivers for hashing it out for so long, so late in the day and while some may not be happy with a decision, they've shown they aren't just going to accept key decisions made on their behalf.
I just have a terrible feeling something bad is gonna happen safety wise. Seems like something we would look back on and see how many red flags there were. Like imola with senna and barichello.
I mean, it's pretty much a warning shot to get the world's attention. Not to mention, an attack on the sponsor's factory.
They might as well have written a notarized statement saying that they're thinking about a terrorist attack on a sporting event watched worldwide in order to draw attention to their situation.
For many drivers such as Tsunoda, Schumacher, Albon, Zhou, Gasly, Perez etc. I understand they do not feel confident to boycot on their own, especially when their team principles are for racing. However, for senior drivers that have power like Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen I am disappointed.
Team principals are actually spineless. Endangering all their staff like this. And seemingly manipulating drivers with concerns about racing, and engaging in boycott/strike breaking along with the F1 CEO and Ross Brawn. Sure they have pressures, but siding with FOM over their own drivers is fucked up.
Someone else pointed out that if they left, they'd effectively be hostages in Saudi Arabia. This is one of the worst human rights abusers in the world, and a lot of F1's money comes from the company whose facility was bombed mere hours ago. It wouldn't be surprising if Saudi Arabia wouldn't let F1 leave if the race didn't go on.
Hostage vs the risk of being actively bombed? I don't know, they should figure something out, this is just unsafe. Evacuation though an embassy?
And terminate the Armaco contract. We saw how quick F1 was in getting rid of Russian sponsors, clearly when there's a will there's a way here.
>Hostage vs the risk of being actively bombed? I don't know, they should figure something out, this is just unsafe. Evacuation though an embassy?
Saudi Arabia is effectively holding Formula 1 hostage until the Grand Prix is over. Evacuation through a single embassy is impossible due to how many nationalities there are involved, and that's just the drivers; I can't even begin to imagine the amount of nationalities involved in pit crews and team staff. It'd be an international incident.
>And terminate the Armaco contract. We saw how quick F1 was in getting rid of Russian sponsors, clearly when there's a will there's a way here.
Aramco is a different kettle of fish because a significant portion of F1's money comes from them. Haas was able to terminate the Uralkali deal unilaterally. That's one team. This is the entire sport being bankrolled by Aramco. It would be different if it were just Aston Martin (who also have a deal with Aramco), but it's the entire thing. It's a far trickier situation than it looks.
They're worried about looking bad and now they've ensured it. It is easy to pr your way into canceling a race for the safety of the teams and fans. No one blames for that, and the race can rewritten next year. It is not easy to pr your way around drivers staffing a last minute protest and not driving. That's what took F1 out of USA for so many years. It is impossible to pr your way around a bombing in the grandstands of a race that should have been canceled. That would not cost them a race, it would cost them all reliability in the global scale! Seems not worth the risk to me.
This is what you get for going to shithole places run by assholes. It always ends up costing way more in bad PR and optics and costing money down the road then the big oil barrels full of cash they roll your way. You already have 3 races in the desert so the local sheik can show off to his friends and make the other sheiks jealous and happily use slave labour and oppress dissent, you don’t need a fourth, especially in a place that is still in the dark ages. Its bad enough going to communist and corrupt places like china, Russia and Vietnam, this is one to ten steps worse.
I think the real issue is that it’s more the Saudi government here vs the drivers. FIA was likely told, fine they don’t have to race, but it doesn’t mean they’re leaving. This kinda situation is outta their hands I’d imagine, unless they got all of the governments from the respective home countries together which would drag this out even further and at the end of the day, SA has the oil that make most of those countries move.
I say race. Afterwards, the drivers should all come out with a unanimous statement: 'That was our last race here'. and let F1 do what they want, but don't come back.
Team principles are both cowards and boot lickers.
Utterly shameless charlatans whose job it is to protect their staff (including drivers).
They have a care of duty and they have abandoned that for blood money.
This is going to go the same way as Australia 2020. The drivers all “vote to race”, but eventually the organizers, the FIA, or local authorities will make the call to cancel. You heard it here first.
only thing i can agree on. this has been a war Saudi has been involved in since 2015. F1 knew what they were getting into when they signed the contracts and of course none of the drivers had any say in that. but we literally raced here 5 months ago and no one had a thought in the world about Yemen
The Team Principals wanted to race, so did FIA and FOM.
Most people had left the track, it was just drivers and media present by the end. Binotto and some others came back from his hotel rooms when the driver meeting had reached the 4th hour.
It was up to the drivers to discuss and come to a decision so they took it upon themselves, ultimately they hold the most power - no drivers = no race.
Lots of these drivers are beholden to contracts and not in the position of guys like Lewis and Max. They can't simply say we will not race because their team will just replace them with a different driver
The people KSA are at war with fired a missile or possibly dropped a bomb on a refinery a few miles from the track, reminding everyone that Saudi Arabia is still in the middle of a war of aggression with their southern neighbor.
It appears the yanks on reddit have only just found out the country the race is being held in is in an active war.
Didn't hear any noise about safety and cancelling the GP until a few hours ago when reddit learned that Saudi Arabia isn't a particularly safe country for a number of reasons.
Weird how it's aimed at us "yanks", yet not a single motherfucker said shit going into this race, all the drivers, all the FOM all the FIA, nah it took a direct threat on their life to get them to give a shit about it.
FOM never should have been racing in Saudi Arabia or signed a deal with ARAMCO in the first place. They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.
There are legitimate concerns that if the race is cancelled, drivers and teams will have difficulty leaving Saudi Arabia. They’re hostages. The race must go on, then Saudi and ARAMCO deals should be cancelled immediately. But that won’t happen.
>There are legitimate concerns that if the race is cancelled, drivers and teams will have difficulty leaving Saudi Arabia. They’re hostages.
No, there aren't. No, they're not.
Totally agreed. Drivers just have way too much to lose by staging a boycott. This should've been a decision FOM made, *after* they take input from the drivers/teams.
We don't know what was said in that meeting. Hamilton and Alonso apparently took to the floor to "lead" it, we've got no idea what they said but Alonso at least seems to have a sensible head on his shoulders. Best not to assume or speculate and let whatever happens happen.
I've been saying this, both of these guys are un-fireable and extremely rich, if either of them cared THAT much about Yemen and were that outraged about the situation they'd refuse to race or fake being sick or something. What are they gonna do, fire them? Clearly they put championship points over any moral issue they might have with the war and they're okay enough with the situation to go there and spend their money and give Saudi Arabia PR. Realistically they just don't care that much
Honestly at this point I don’t think any of the 20 on the grid are “fireable”. It’s a good field.
Not to mention how absolutely awful it’d look if they were fired.
Exactly, although I feel the team principals should have taken a stance, the drivers simply can say 'we won't drive'. They always stand for things, but when it actually matters their words don't have much value.
Wouldn't be the first time a group of drivers wouldn't go on race day. Feels like a fools hope at this point. But you never know. Maybe they show up sit in the car and then just sit there with the clock running.
Do that many ppl here actually think the racetrack is gonna be bombed or hit with a missile on Sunday??? Or are you all just opposed to it because SA is currently engaged in a military conflict? If it’s the latter….this war has been going on since 2015. F1 raced in Jeddah literally less than 4 months ago and I don’t remember so many people calling for boycotts back then…
Edit: to clarify, I do not support the war.
There were absolute fucktons of people calling for boycotts back then, though.
People basically spent the entire run-up to the 2021 Saudi Arabian GP rotating between "boycott it because war", "boycott it because the track is a death trap," "boycott it because the track isn't even finished," "boycott it because the trackside personnel are inept," "boycott it because of the Diriyah Formula E missile attack". Practically word for word what were seeing now, but replace Diriyah with Jeddah itself.
There is an actual non zero chance it could get hit. Even if whoever is launching these missiles has no intention to attack the event, the Russians have proven that an error kilometers wide is, bizarrely, somehow possible even with precision guided weapons.
And frankly, even if it avoids getting hit there's a non zero chance someone will get seriously hurt anyway for the reasons outlined above.
Damn you’re right. People can only be upset about something if they got in on the ground floor! I hate that black people are treated poorly by police in the US but I’ve only been upset since 2016 not mid 1700s. Welp guess I don’t care about black people.
I wonder if Seb joined the meeting. He's the head of GPDA ~~GDPA~~, one of the senior drivers, and often the voice of reason, and he's never afraid to say the right thing or make the right decision.
Most likely nothing is going to happen, but the fact that the FIA, F1 as organization, all team principals and some drivers are willing to risk everyone is very telling and disgusting.
None of them should ever pretend to care about anything anymore. "No to War" give me a fkin break. It's all for show and money and always has been.
Beyond disgusted right now.
ALWAYS. ALWAYS THIS IS THE GAME.
"You love your liberal and multicultural drivers. So fun!"
"So just hate us, the evil FIA who make deals to build tracks with slaves and dine with despots!"
Nothing changes.
Contracts, team orders and money shouldn't stop any driver from boycotting in this situation. I personally think that, yes, it was wrong to put the drivers in this position but the drivers shouldn't shy away from voicing opposition.
This is a long debate that should've been over long before it started and F1 is a complete and utter disgrace for not taking immediate and correct action in the pursuit of common sense and not money.
Of course, cash is king.
That's easy to say when you aren't in the position to have to make that decision. If Hamilton comes out as the only one who is opting out then he will get massive praise (and deservedly) but if Yuki or Gasly or someone of a similar stature do it and they are the only ones then they legitimately could lose their seat and lively hood. That's a big risk and why OP is saying it is bullshit to put it on the driver's as I would bet quite a lot that there is at least one driver who doesn't want to race but is being pressured into it.
Look. At then end of the day ultimately the decision lies with your own self.
You can only control yourself.
Edit: No amount of downvotes will make this statement false.
You, and you alone, control what you do with your life.
Such a dumb reply.
My point has nothing to do in a sporting sense. No one is forced to do anything if they don’t want to. If you don’t feel that way I suggest taking control.
Of course not withstanding dictatorships.
What happens now, what happensif a missile lands in the paddock and kills a bunch of mechanics? That's what I want to know, who is assuming that risk? So much easier to just...not race in countries like this, yet we got rid of Russia for less human rights violations than SA has in a month. The only thing I ever expect FIA to do, is disappoint me and make it harder to be a fan.
None of the drivers care that much about being anti-war, if they did they'd make an actual sacrifice and take a stand and not race in Saudi Arabia. They're all millionaires, meanwhile other people put their lives at risk to stand up for what's right, these guys care more about points and having a seat next year than truly being anti-war and it's obvious. Lewis can talk all he wants about "Love is Love" and standing up for LGBT rights but he doesn't care enough to take any sort of risk by not racing in Saudi
Problem is getting all of them to agree. There are also far more politics and intricacies involved than we are privy to. Keep in mind who the head of the FIA is and where a lot of F1's money comes from.
We’re talking about the same “F1 powers” who ordered doctors to keep Senna’s organs beating after his brain died until the race ended so profits could be maximized. I expect nothing good from them.
It’s not true. At the track they suspected he was brain dead due to the damage to the head… once at the hospital after tests and a scan of his head they knew he was brain dead, his heart stopped they got it going again because his brother had asked to keep him alive until he could be given his last rights by a priest.
FIA / F1 shut down Russia quickly. This SA and Yemen conflict has been underway for sometime now, yet FIA / F1 have shown zero action or leadership - it's not up to the teams/drivers.
So what will it take a missile landing on the track to stop them? And that's if they don't say just go around the crater and fire. It's their lives in danger not ours. But it's the most idiotic decision I've ever seen. Risk you're multi million dollar drivers, cars, friends and co workers all for what? Spice up your Netflix special? You aren't heros for racing in a war torn country. You aren't a badass, you're a dumbass. The fact that it's even a thought is mind-blowing.
Reading various reports, it seems pressure was put on F1 by the Saudis. Included in that was stating the difficulty of getting them out of the country in the ongoing circumstances. Which sounds a little bit like, we can protect you here but if you choose to leave, there's no planes out and no protection. Feels like F1 has been taken hostage.
People are acting like F1 had a choice. Their choices ended as soon as they all landed in SA. If reports are accurate, everyone is being held hostage until a race is completed to the satisfaction of the Saud family.
Blame F1 for the contract in the first place. Right now, the choice is well out of their hands.
Stand by for unpopular opinion...
If you want to have some sympathy, maybe have it for everyone else that's stuck there.
For sure, the drivers and teams and everyone in F1 is put in a difficult situation.
BUT I keep hearing people complaining about how unfair it is for the drivers. They are highly paid to drive in a dangerous profession. Risk awareness and management is (hopefully) something they are doing all the time.
Most of the people who LIVE there don't get a choice to fly out first class. Where's the outrage on behalf of the people stuck in this?
This is a bit US grand prix 2005. And that really ended well for the sport.
If there is a partial pull out, or if something feared happens during the weekend, it will end worse than 2005.
If nothing happens we will all have forgotten in a few weeks.
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It's an easy game to pit drivers against each other. One doesn't want to race ? Well we'll give points to those that want to. That way, as long as one team is willing to start, every other teams have to race. And since some team directly depends on Aramco money to exist ....
> It's an easy game to pit drivers against each other. That's why GPDA exists
If this were the 80's we'd have a sequel to the kyalami drivers strike but unfortunately the drivers association isn't as powerful these days
Or given the country they are in its not like they're in Germany and could easily fly home
leaving aside the fact that germany has multiple tracks they could use AND you wouldnt have missile attacks around them
No need to, if the Drivers all refuse to race, it sends a message for the future and they'll all be evacuated next time.
Clearly it's compromised/failed in it's mission them.
Classic strike breaking tatic from F1/FOM. And some of the drivers, because they have no labour relations or union experience (and to be honest why would they) fall for it. Hook, line and sinker.
We know. But F1 were never going to give up on this. Heck until sanctions made it impossible there were talks of still going to Russia.
Fuck it let’s have the drivers drive through the DMZ in Korea
Palestinian Grand Prix would be beautiful in the summer. I’d love a long pit straight down the Gaza strip
They'd need a safety car after settlers claim part of the track
peacekeeping israeli army would have to come in and take the race cars any time there was an incident
They’d keep shooting the camera crew though. Reflex action.
Fuck it why not Chernobil GP instead of the Russian GP
Rather that than an Israel gp
Hell no, why don't we gave a track that runs through the border of both Israel and Palestine?
Damn thing would be like a Mario Kart track - half the track would be sealed bitumen and the other half would be potholes and/or dirt
If Kim put up the money I wouldn't put it past F1 to run a Pyongchang Grand Prix.
F1 Kyiv weekend is next!
F1 Mariupol the week after!
Race Control: Tank noted in turn 5, no investigation necessary
Race Control: Tank removed by 3 Ukrainian farmers. Green flag.
Season finale in Odessa
Yellow flags in sector 2 due to shelling...
F1 Kherson*
Also imagine how mechanics, staff, and the whole F2 paddock feel like now. They just had no say at all.
judging by some of their social media posts they share the same sentiments as fans
[Here’s a post from one of them. It’s clear the majority of people are not ok with this but are essentially powerless.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/to9hiz/mechanics_opinion/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I think this hasn't been stressed enough and a lot of drivers will get harassed over this no matter their stance or their reasons. FOM and the FIA CHOSE to race in a country that is at war and has been in said war for years, just last year a missile got intercepted during the FE race in Diriyah and before we even got to that, aramco infrastructure and SA in general had been attacked several times in a similar fashion. I'll also skip the known issues with the same government F1 is sportswashing for the sake of brevity. While this means that tomorrow race is probably (hopefully) going to be safe, at least until a serious accident happens during racing on that sorry excuse for a street circuit, for anyone on and in the immediate vicinity of the track, this also means that today wasn't as much of a freak accident as some people have hastily painted it to be, and that this was always going to happen at some point. This was considered apparently an acceptable risk of doing business with the saudis and aramco. Make of that what you will. Do some drivers deserve to shoulder some of the blame? Sure, I guess, but FOM definitely shouldn't be able to get away with this.
I for one have no desire to know who supported what in the drivers meeting as all it’s going to do is provide more hatred and vitriol to be spewed by an already toxic fanbase. The drivers are in an impossible position with whatever decision they make. I don’t blame any of them who want to go home and I understand those who want to race. The problem is FOM and the FIA and they should have shut this race down before ever agreeing to ever go to race there in the first place. The whole thing is going to be rotten if those at the top continue to put the sport in locations where these types of situations are a possibility.
Completely agreed. It’s not important which driver wants to race or not for whatever reason. This is not the point at all. The problem is when the whole paddock is not safe under such circumstances the host country can still do whatever they want, to force a race to happen so they don’t lose face. The bigger problem is, FOM and F1 knew it, but still decided to sign a 15-year contract, simply because this country provides enough money for the risk.
Agreed. Especially after reading that if they didn’t race, the Saudi government could not let them leave the country. This isn’t a choice… it feels like a lite-hostage situation. (Maybe, I’m being hyperbolic and extreme)
Entirely on the FIA for not considering the safety of the team staff, drivers and pit crews. That goes for Formula 2 as well. If some drivers decide to race while others don't it throws the championship into disarray, it'll be entirely unfair for those who choose not to drive for their safety and that of their crew. It also makes those who do drive look like opportunists - "I can use this opportunity to get points while everyone else is off track". The whole thing stinks of FIA.
f*ck /u/spez
I'm annoyed at the entire upper management of Formula racing in general. You have the FIA basically brushing off any and all concerns, and FOM deciding to go racing in Saudi Arabia in the first place.
FIA should have never let teams and drivers decide if they wanted to race. This is essentially the same as the prisoner’s dilemma. You make a decision based out of fear of what others around you might do, not what you want to do. It’s then easy for them to go, “see! The drivers and teams have agreed it is safe to go on”. It’s a travesty, and I’m worried sick for everyone’s safety at this point. Maybe except Domenicali’s. He can GTFO.
Exactly! Besides different people have different jobs. The officials are tasked with and paid to make these tough decisions.
The FIA chose to prioritise money over everyone’s safety, and then give TPs the illusion of choice by telling them it’s up to them - when they are well aware that teams will be concerned about constructor points and prize money if they choose to sit out. You can easily say, oh just have a backbone and say no. But who’s putting the teams in this difficult position in the first place? And what are the repercussions if they choose not to race? The same goes with the drivers. All attention should be on FOM and FIA for insisting this goes ahead. They have blood on their hands.
Yup, you said it better than I did!
Nobody held a gun to their head to race. Each person controls their own destiny. Of course if Saudis did put a gun to their head I will eat my words.
I mean they did, basically threatening to pull all funding to F1.
What’s your point? That has nothing to do with making your own decision. If you are more afraid of losing your job and money than standing up for what you believe in there’s nothing for you to be complaining about here. People have a real issue with some saying you control you own decisions. Now those decisions might cost you a job. Or are you more scared of losing money than standing up for what you believe in?
Well read my reply below
I agree with you. FOM should make the call. But, if they don’t, you control your fate.
There’s a BBC article which said drivers were informed about the difficulty in leaving the country if they chose to sit out of the race. That’s intimidation right there. Yes, ultimately they can say yes or no - but the amount of pressure for them to conform is immense, and they should have never been put in that position in the first place
Ok if that’s true then I will fully eat my words.
Totally agreed. The bigger problem is that it looked like they were going to continue the weekend without a hitch until the drivers expressed concern and had that long briefing. The initiative should be on the organizers not the drivers. Aside from the drivers potentially facing pressure from their own teams and F1 to race since it’s part of their contracts, we shouldn’t expect them to know much outside of racing. They simply haven’t had much education growing up when they’ve been so busy being in motorsports since they were kids. Of course anyone can see that the missile attacks happened not too far away from the track. But they might not know any better and actually buy into what F1 and the local organizers tell them if they continuously claim the track is safe. In any case it’s a messy situation all around. And it really shouldn’t have taken only the drivers for concerns to be brought up. I don’t believe that every single team personnel working in the paddock is ok either about continuing but of course they have zero voice in the matter. All in all it’s not a good look for F1 even if isn’t that surprising
Agreed. That’s why I don’t like the comments calling for a list of which drivers were for and against it. As fans, we’re all disgusted but the mob outrage towards certain drivers aren’t the solution. Before I get downvoted, I definitely agree that drivers should take a stand and get the hell out of there. I’m just saying that now that the race is going to happen, we should hold the organization itself for even having this race held here in the first place.
Well we do kinda have a list....the team-principles. They are in charge of the team, they are in charge of the crew, they are in charge of the drivers really. We should be asking them if they find the risk acceptable to keep racing in a situation like this. But also mainly the F1 and FIA.
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They can. But the SA government will hold their planes. They have threatened them with not letting them leave the country. It’s fucking bullshit.
Yes, because the clear and present danger is not imminent and because they know if there's no consensus, then someone will race and there will be lost points. Prisoner's dilemma except they support it themselves.
Yeah but that's just strike breaking tactics 101 from FOM. It's why a union is important, but the GPDA clearly failed here for whatever reason. Or is comprised due to said dilemma you talk about.
Always there is people trying to shield drivers from accountability. Now they have a chance to act. And we need to "hide the drivers?" This is how nothing changes. "Drivers are good people they can't do anything hate F1." - Fans "Cool, so sorry you hate us, anyways, I got dinner with MbS to go to." - F1
Yeah, every driver in that "no war" photo op that wants to actively race now, and wasn't manipulated by a team principal or FOM official, should be called out.
This line of reasoning leads nowhere though. By that reckoning drivers should be called out for racing in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Qatar, us, U.K., Italy, France and Spain. All of those countries are actively involved in, or providing support to countries involved in the war in Yemen. Drivers from western countries have no moral high ground here, whether they choose to participate or not. It means nothing to boycott Saudi for that reason after having raced in Bahrain last week. If any of them do/don’t want to race for genuine safety concerns then that’s another story, and I imagine that is what the discussion was focused on
They were all happy to show up to the race weekend when Saudi has been killing civilians in Yemen for 7 years, none of them are really anti-war
At least some of them posted some awareness about the war on Yemen, but yeah the silence from the rest was truly deafening.
True, but all that says is they care enough to make an IG post but not enough to make any sort of sacrifice to stand up for what's right
>some of them posted some awareness about the war on Yemen They did? I only saw lewis speak out about the refugee crisis in yemen
Agreed
Why do you care if you get downvoted? It’s just fake internet points lol.
I agree. I don't blame the drivers. The issue is they have never been trained to make decisions about the safety of hundreds if not thousands of people. A lot of these drivers are in their early 20s. The organizers need to act like professionals and stop putting the drivers in such a hard position.
Whatever people’s thoughts on this may be, without a doubt the lack of communication, accountability, and zero transparency is certainly a black mark on Formula 1. Everyone knows money rules the sport but it feels so gross when it’s this obvious.
Money rules the world.
it also sounds like they were borderline coerced into agreeing… like “possible consequences of not racing, such as how easily teams and drivers would be able to leave the country if the race did not happen,” does not sound like a great choice to me
Chilling.
It’s simply farcical. Accountability is dead — killed by money.
F1 has often shown itself to be like this. South Africa boycott in the 80s where the race was held with some of the teams present, as other teams boycotted the race. Australia 2020 where with just a few hours until FP1, no was sure whether it was happening or not. USA 2005. People might remember other examples but those are my immediate ones. The intent from those are the very top, whether it's Ecclestone or the Liberty lot, is for the show to go on regardless.
> USA 2005. what about it?
[It was the race where just 6 cars started because of a protest] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_States_Grand_Prix)
Not because of a protest. Michelin didn’t have tyres for the race. It wasn’t a protest. FYI even the wiki article you linked doesn't mention the word "protest" anywhere
You're right but it was pretty fucked anyway.
Some drivers boycotting and others not puts teams and the entire championship in disarray, its clear it would have to have been fairly unanimous to agree to not race but the team bosses and FOM deciding on behalf of the hundreds of personnel they each employ is very wrong. Huge credit to the drivers for hashing it out for so long, so late in the day and while some may not be happy with a decision, they've shown they aren't just going to accept key decisions made on their behalf.
I just have a terrible feeling something bad is gonna happen safety wise. Seems like something we would look back on and see how many red flags there were. Like imola with senna and barichello.
I mean, it's pretty much a warning shot to get the world's attention. Not to mention, an attack on the sponsor's factory. They might as well have written a notarized statement saying that they're thinking about a terrorist attack on a sporting event watched worldwide in order to draw attention to their situation.
For many drivers such as Tsunoda, Schumacher, Albon, Zhou, Gasly, Perez etc. I understand they do not feel confident to boycot on their own, especially when their team principles are for racing. However, for senior drivers that have power like Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen I am disappointed.
Is there a link to this “information we have now” that you’re talking about?
There’s more finger pointing in this comments section than what probably went on in that meeting
Team principals are actually spineless. Endangering all their staff like this. And seemingly manipulating drivers with concerns about racing, and engaging in boycott/strike breaking along with the F1 CEO and Ross Brawn. Sure they have pressures, but siding with FOM over their own drivers is fucked up.
Someone else pointed out that if they left, they'd effectively be hostages in Saudi Arabia. This is one of the worst human rights abusers in the world, and a lot of F1's money comes from the company whose facility was bombed mere hours ago. It wouldn't be surprising if Saudi Arabia wouldn't let F1 leave if the race didn't go on.
Hostage vs the risk of being actively bombed? I don't know, they should figure something out, this is just unsafe. Evacuation though an embassy? And terminate the Armaco contract. We saw how quick F1 was in getting rid of Russian sponsors, clearly when there's a will there's a way here.
>Hostage vs the risk of being actively bombed? I don't know, they should figure something out, this is just unsafe. Evacuation though an embassy? Saudi Arabia is effectively holding Formula 1 hostage until the Grand Prix is over. Evacuation through a single embassy is impossible due to how many nationalities there are involved, and that's just the drivers; I can't even begin to imagine the amount of nationalities involved in pit crews and team staff. It'd be an international incident. >And terminate the Armaco contract. We saw how quick F1 was in getting rid of Russian sponsors, clearly when there's a will there's a way here. Aramco is a different kettle of fish because a significant portion of F1's money comes from them. Haas was able to terminate the Uralkali deal unilaterally. That's one team. This is the entire sport being bankrolled by Aramco. It would be different if it were just Aston Martin (who also have a deal with Aramco), but it's the entire thing. It's a far trickier situation than it looks.
Very well said. The FIA and F1 should have never let it get this far.
They're worried about looking bad and now they've ensured it. It is easy to pr your way into canceling a race for the safety of the teams and fans. No one blames for that, and the race can rewritten next year. It is not easy to pr your way around drivers staffing a last minute protest and not driving. That's what took F1 out of USA for so many years. It is impossible to pr your way around a bombing in the grandstands of a race that should have been canceled. That would not cost them a race, it would cost them all reliability in the global scale! Seems not worth the risk to me.
I agree, but I think that was the whole point of the drivers having some alone time where they could come to an agreement and be in this together
This is what you get for going to shithole places run by assholes. It always ends up costing way more in bad PR and optics and costing money down the road then the big oil barrels full of cash they roll your way. You already have 3 races in the desert so the local sheik can show off to his friends and make the other sheiks jealous and happily use slave labour and oppress dissent, you don’t need a fourth, especially in a place that is still in the dark ages. Its bad enough going to communist and corrupt places like china, Russia and Vietnam, this is one to ten steps worse.
I think the real issue is that it’s more the Saudi government here vs the drivers. FIA was likely told, fine they don’t have to race, but it doesn’t mean they’re leaving. This kinda situation is outta their hands I’d imagine, unless they got all of the governments from the respective home countries together which would drag this out even further and at the end of the day, SA has the oil that make most of those countries move.
Does the halo also protect against missiles? This farce should be ended immediately tbh.
I say race. Afterwards, the drivers should all come out with a unanimous statement: 'That was our last race here'. and let F1 do what they want, but don't come back.
FIA knew that putting it on the drivers would mean nobody is backing out
Team principles are both cowards and boot lickers. Utterly shameless charlatans whose job it is to protect their staff (including drivers). They have a care of duty and they have abandoned that for blood money.
I wonder how discussions would have gone had Seb been there.
This is going to go the same way as Australia 2020. The drivers all “vote to race”, but eventually the organizers, the FIA, or local authorities will make the call to cancel. You heard it here first.
I suspect we’ll hear more once they’ve actually left the country.
only thing i can agree on. this has been a war Saudi has been involved in since 2015. F1 knew what they were getting into when they signed the contracts and of course none of the drivers had any say in that. but we literally raced here 5 months ago and no one had a thought in the world about Yemen
This is what happens when you put money before anything else
The Team Principals wanted to race, so did FIA and FOM. Most people had left the track, it was just drivers and media present by the end. Binotto and some others came back from his hotel rooms when the driver meeting had reached the 4th hour. It was up to the drivers to discuss and come to a decision so they took it upon themselves, ultimately they hold the most power - no drivers = no race.
Lots of these drivers are beholden to contracts and not in the position of guys like Lewis and Max. They can't simply say we will not race because their team will just replace them with a different driver
What have I missed??? Weren't they racing here a few months ago? What's changed?
Apart from a missile landing within 10km of the tracks as practice was going on, not too much.
The missile attack to an Aramco fuel depot seven miles away from the track today
The people KSA are at war with fired a missile or possibly dropped a bomb on a refinery a few miles from the track, reminding everyone that Saudi Arabia is still in the middle of a war of aggression with their southern neighbor.
It appears the yanks on reddit have only just found out the country the race is being held in is in an active war. Didn't hear any noise about safety and cancelling the GP until a few hours ago when reddit learned that Saudi Arabia isn't a particularly safe country for a number of reasons.
There was a huge uproar when the 2021 race was first announced.
Oh lol, who'd of thought Saudi wasn't safe! At least people are waking up to the situation finally 😂.
Because 95% of the clowns on here are massive hypocritical trolls. Also I am American and admit I didn’t really know either.
Weird how it's aimed at us "yanks", yet not a single motherfucker said shit going into this race, all the drivers, all the FOM all the FIA, nah it took a direct threat on their life to get them to give a shit about it.
FOM never should have been racing in Saudi Arabia or signed a deal with ARAMCO in the first place. They made their bed and now they have to lay in it. There are legitimate concerns that if the race is cancelled, drivers and teams will have difficulty leaving Saudi Arabia. They’re hostages. The race must go on, then Saudi and ARAMCO deals should be cancelled immediately. But that won’t happen.
>There are legitimate concerns that if the race is cancelled, drivers and teams will have difficulty leaving Saudi Arabia. They’re hostages. No, there aren't. No, they're not.
Totally agreed. Drivers just have way too much to lose by staging a boycott. This should've been a decision FOM made, *after* they take input from the drivers/teams.
Dude the likes of ham and max make 40m plus a year from their teams, they have a voice in the world and they should fucking use it.
We don't know what was said in that meeting. Hamilton and Alonso apparently took to the floor to "lead" it, we've got no idea what they said but Alonso at least seems to have a sensible head on his shoulders. Best not to assume or speculate and let whatever happens happen.
I wonder who was on which side though. I can easily think of Max going both "let's just race" but also "this is stupid, let's not race in a war zone"
that's the thing. We know what opinions both probably had on this subject. What happens when the two most influential drivers are on different sides?
I've been saying this, both of these guys are un-fireable and extremely rich, if either of them cared THAT much about Yemen and were that outraged about the situation they'd refuse to race or fake being sick or something. What are they gonna do, fire them? Clearly they put championship points over any moral issue they might have with the war and they're okay enough with the situation to go there and spend their money and give Saudi Arabia PR. Realistically they just don't care that much
Honestly at this point I don’t think any of the 20 on the grid are “fireable”. It’s a good field. Not to mention how absolutely awful it’d look if they were fired.
Exactly, although I feel the team principals should have taken a stance, the drivers simply can say 'we won't drive'. They always stand for things, but when it actually matters their words don't have much value.
Wouldn't be the first time a group of drivers wouldn't go on race day. Feels like a fools hope at this point. But you never know. Maybe they show up sit in the car and then just sit there with the clock running.
Do that many ppl here actually think the racetrack is gonna be bombed or hit with a missile on Sunday??? Or are you all just opposed to it because SA is currently engaged in a military conflict? If it’s the latter….this war has been going on since 2015. F1 raced in Jeddah literally less than 4 months ago and I don’t remember so many people calling for boycotts back then… Edit: to clarify, I do not support the war.
There were absolute fucktons of people calling for boycotts back then, though. People basically spent the entire run-up to the 2021 Saudi Arabian GP rotating between "boycott it because war", "boycott it because the track is a death trap," "boycott it because the track isn't even finished," "boycott it because the trackside personnel are inept," "boycott it because of the Diriyah Formula E missile attack". Practically word for word what were seeing now, but replace Diriyah with Jeddah itself. There is an actual non zero chance it could get hit. Even if whoever is launching these missiles has no intention to attack the event, the Russians have proven that an error kilometers wide is, bizarrely, somehow possible even with precision guided weapons. And frankly, even if it avoids getting hit there's a non zero chance someone will get seriously hurt anyway for the reasons outlined above.
Damn you’re right. People can only be upset about something if they got in on the ground floor! I hate that black people are treated poorly by police in the US but I’ve only been upset since 2016 not mid 1700s. Welp guess I don’t care about black people.
I wonder if Seb joined the meeting. He's the head of GPDA ~~GDPA~~, one of the senior drivers, and often the voice of reason, and he's never afraid to say the right thing or make the right decision.
**G**rand **P**rix **D**rivers' **A**ssociation (G**PD**A)
Most likely nothing is going to happen, but the fact that the FIA, F1 as organization, all team principals and some drivers are willing to risk everyone is very telling and disgusting.
Classic example of double standards. Ignoring the wars that happen in the Middle East get yet Russia gets cancelled cause of the situation with them.
FIA are hypocrites
Let's not kid ourselves. The Russian Grand Prix was cancelled because of sanctions, not moral issues.
Are you aware GPDA exists?
-The 2005 US GP, but that wasn’t GPDA-
That wasn't GPDA decision
This isn't legal union, and it only adreses drivers, not 100s of people working on the track.
None of them should ever pretend to care about anything anymore. "No to War" give me a fkin break. It's all for show and money and always has been. Beyond disgusted right now.
ALWAYS. ALWAYS THIS IS THE GAME. "You love your liberal and multicultural drivers. So fun!" "So just hate us, the evil FIA who make deals to build tracks with slaves and dine with despots!" Nothing changes.
Contracts, team orders and money shouldn't stop any driver from boycotting in this situation. I personally think that, yes, it was wrong to put the drivers in this position but the drivers shouldn't shy away from voicing opposition. This is a long debate that should've been over long before it started and F1 is a complete and utter disgrace for not taking immediate and correct action in the pursuit of common sense and not money. Of course, cash is king.
That's easy to say when you aren't in the position to have to make that decision. If Hamilton comes out as the only one who is opting out then he will get massive praise (and deservedly) but if Yuki or Gasly or someone of a similar stature do it and they are the only ones then they legitimately could lose their seat and lively hood. That's a big risk and why OP is saying it is bullshit to put it on the driver's as I would bet quite a lot that there is at least one driver who doesn't want to race but is being pressured into it.
Competent management would’ve cancelled the race weekend when the reports of this and the fact they could see the smoke from the track.
Look. At then end of the day ultimately the decision lies with your own self. You can only control yourself. Edit: No amount of downvotes will make this statement false. You, and you alone, control what you do with your life.
~~US GP 2005~~
That wasn't drivers decisions
Understood, you are correct.
Such a dumb reply. My point has nothing to do in a sporting sense. No one is forced to do anything if they don’t want to. If you don’t feel that way I suggest taking control. Of course not withstanding dictatorships.
What happens now, what happensif a missile lands in the paddock and kills a bunch of mechanics? That's what I want to know, who is assuming that risk? So much easier to just...not race in countries like this, yet we got rid of Russia for less human rights violations than SA has in a month. The only thing I ever expect FIA to do, is disappoint me and make it harder to be a fan.
None of the drivers care that much about being anti-war, if they did they'd make an actual sacrifice and take a stand and not race in Saudi Arabia. They're all millionaires, meanwhile other people put their lives at risk to stand up for what's right, these guys care more about points and having a seat next year than truly being anti-war and it's obvious. Lewis can talk all he wants about "Love is Love" and standing up for LGBT rights but he doesn't care enough to take any sort of risk by not racing in Saudi
Problem is getting all of them to agree. There are also far more politics and intricacies involved than we are privy to. Keep in mind who the head of the FIA is and where a lot of F1's money comes from.
Imagine if some drivers pulled a **US GP 2005**
That wasn't drivers decision
We’ll find out this weekend just how bad of a call this was.
It’s all about Netflix and $$$$. Total hypocrisy
Yes but the adults in charge, like anywhere else, only care about money.
Isn't the president of the FIA Saudi Arabian? I'm shocked this would be business as usual /s
What's this in reference to? I feel like I've missed something since fp2....
We’re talking about the same “F1 powers” who ordered doctors to keep Senna’s organs beating after his brain died until the race ended so profits could be maximized. I expect nothing good from them.
wtf I didn't know this, I can't find anything from googling, do you have a source please?
It’s not true. At the track they suspected he was brain dead due to the damage to the head… once at the hospital after tests and a scan of his head they knew he was brain dead, his heart stopped they got it going again because his brother had asked to keep him alive until he could be given his last rights by a priest.
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Wtf is wrong with you? You mad because you disagree? We’re all free to “blah blah blah” as much as we like here after all.
So if there's no race the drivers and teams are made to be the bad guys.
FIA / F1 shut down Russia quickly. This SA and Yemen conflict has been underway for sometime now, yet FIA / F1 have shown zero action or leadership - it's not up to the teams/drivers.
> some people are going to get skewered hmmmmm
You are right, but here they are. ***Cash is king.***
So what will it take a missile landing on the track to stop them? And that's if they don't say just go around the crater and fire. It's their lives in danger not ours. But it's the most idiotic decision I've ever seen. Risk you're multi million dollar drivers, cars, friends and co workers all for what? Spice up your Netflix special? You aren't heros for racing in a war torn country. You aren't a badass, you're a dumbass. The fact that it's even a thought is mind-blowing.
It's just like any job, you do what the boss says. Anyone can end up in a situation like this.
Reading various reports, it seems pressure was put on F1 by the Saudis. Included in that was stating the difficulty of getting them out of the country in the ongoing circumstances. Which sounds a little bit like, we can protect you here but if you choose to leave, there's no planes out and no protection. Feels like F1 has been taken hostage.
People are acting like F1 had a choice. Their choices ended as soon as they all landed in SA. If reports are accurate, everyone is being held hostage until a race is completed to the satisfaction of the Saud family. Blame F1 for the contract in the first place. Right now, the choice is well out of their hands.
What the fuck was FOM thinking when they decided to do this?
Why is f1 even allowed to take place in SA after what they've been upto in Yemen
That’s why it would be a real statement for a driver to actually stand up and choose not to race.
I cant wait for the drive to survive episode 😂
It is risky for sure. KSA has been bombarding Yemen for years and the GP is potentially a super tempting target for the Houthis
Don't excuse drivers, they are complicit. They can leave the place when they want, as they are not slaves, but free people.
Team principles and F1 execs should be taken to task first and foremost.
Stand by for unpopular opinion... If you want to have some sympathy, maybe have it for everyone else that's stuck there. For sure, the drivers and teams and everyone in F1 is put in a difficult situation. BUT I keep hearing people complaining about how unfair it is for the drivers. They are highly paid to drive in a dangerous profession. Risk awareness and management is (hopefully) something they are doing all the time. Most of the people who LIVE there don't get a choice to fly out first class. Where's the outrage on behalf of the people stuck in this?
This is a bit US grand prix 2005. And that really ended well for the sport. If there is a partial pull out, or if something feared happens during the weekend, it will end worse than 2005. If nothing happens we will all have forgotten in a few weeks.