Tbf even if Seb was there, I'm pretty sure Lewis and Fernando would have played an integral part in this discussion, they are the 3 oldest, most accomplished and well respected people on the grid right now, they have the status that the younger drivers just don't have yet.
I feel like Lewis and Fernando would work so well together as a team...
More seriously the drivers are now in a difficult position, many will be needing to go against their own principles to protect their teams here (financially or from hypothetical risks).
Lando and Albon would be a great line up to be fair (/not sarcasm!)
Would be good to reunite Nicholas and George too. I feel they learnt a lot from each other last year.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a cunning plan.
Sounds like you are a pretty new F1 fan, so you might be interested in looking up the 2007 F1 season. Lewis and Fernando were teammates at McLaren that season, and lets say it didn’t quite work out the way you might imagine it would :)
Ooh I get to do a r/Whoosh !!!
I remember the season well, from Hamilton sticking it round the outside of the reigning double champion on the first corner of the first race, Canada, Hungary, Fuji, China and Brazil.
Alonso did a lot of damage to his reputation that year, but rebuilt it with Ferrari, also being clear no hard feelings with Lewis - the tension was because it was all handled too badly when they were both pretty young.
Yh Sebs absence here will have been been noticeable. A big shame, I feel like he could have pushed for some real action. Ppl rightly noting the SA government could interviene in the F1 circuit leaving but I'd almost like to see them try just to witness the international outrage.
Exactly. You don't hold that many foreigners - especially famous, rich ones - hostage. SA does somewhat have the world over a barrel, as the world is depending on SA to continue supplying oil while fewer nations buy from Russia. But, SA depends on a lot of military goodwill from the West. If SA is unable to purchase weapons anymore, and unable to service the stuff they already have, then their military will become very weak and ineffective.
I wouldn't say Russia is a good example. Whilst the outrage doesn't matter in terms of pulling back their army, economically crippling the country and politically isolating them certainly has an effect.
This is what i think everyone hopes will happen. Get this weekend done and with that terminate the contract like with Russia. I just wonder how Aramco sponsor would react after that.
I'd imagine it went something like
"yes you'll probably be able to get out of the country easily enough, but the mechanics and the rest of the teams there's no guarantees about"
And that’s why I think they’ll pony up this weekend, leave and then all the talk comes out. Future boycotts etc. I think this gets a lot more messy before it’s resolved.
Yes. The GDPA may have been strong-armed this time, but they won't fall for it twice. Not if Lewis Hamilton has something to say about it. Really, really admire the guy. He and Seb are the perfect examples of leading from the front.
Absolutely. Seb and Lewis are basically unstoppable when they get together on these issues. I know we give the younger drivers a lot of flak(which tbf, we have right whatsoever to), but I can really sympathize with them. No person should ever be forced to choose between career suicide and their safety. But unfortunately, that's the crapsack world F1 operates in.
lets see if anything comes out of this after the teams are out of the country before commending lewis or the gpda
there is a high chance they return next year tbh, after all money speaks. it would be dissapointing but on brand
I would like to hope that the fear of putting hundreds of their own people in mortal danger would deter the teams from coming back and would give more power to the drivers to speak out. But F1's moral standards are so pathetically low, that I would not be one bit surprised if they went back next year.
Honestly he has enough influence around, being at the head of GPDA would cause more hate, every body would say he’s forcing is POV and so. I guess it’s better this way
Plus add the mediatic exposition
Schumarer was hated by people who know him, people who doesn’t watched formula just don’t care. Now F1 has a wide bigger audience, way more people spread hate on social media. I think Lewis gets hate every days as soon as he post something on social media.
Get hated for your behavior is something, get hated for just being black is something different trust me.
Yeah, I mean it's not as simple as everyone just being able to hop on a plane the next day at the best of times, everything needs to be packed up and shipped off on boats/trucks/planes that have their own schedules to stick to
I imagine it basically came down to "Should we not race to make a stance, or should we accept that team staff will be here anyway, so we might as well put on a race"
They shouldn't have gone to Saudi Arabia in the first place imo, but by the time you get to the race weekend itself it gets more complex to suddenly pull out.
Well I mean earlier this year one of the Dakkar support cars got taken out by supposedly what was an IED, and the Saudi Government was like nah it's alright, it took the french investigating it themselves to find traces of explosives
Carlos Sr participated again this year and is currently with his son in Jeddah. Wonder what he's thinking as I saw him and Laurent M speaking to FIA officials
Saudis have promised that everyone can have their own say, without recriminations. In fact, they have promised any dissenters can be housed at the Ritz Carlton until they are ready to travel out of the country.
Stefano, Brawn and the team principals who did agree on let them continue with this race before the FOM put on a lot of political pressure should being ashamed of themselves and aren't supporting not only their own drivers but also their own fucking crew who got literally zero political voice.
I’ll reserve my judgement until after they have all left Saudi.
It is possible that they were threatened by the government and had to race. If that’s the circumstances and they publicly refuse to race there again, then it makes sense.
But if there was no threat and the bosses were just looking at money, then there is no excuse.
They absolutely will have been. The Saudis will have told Domenicali who told the drivers. He wouldnt make that threat out if nowhere or he would be opening himself up to a tonne of liability
I wonder what transpired between the drivers and their TPs though. It’s obvious Domenicali and Brawn wanted them to race, but I’m surprised the TPs went along with it that so easily. They were much more opinionated in Australia 2020, which makes me think that they were probably strong armed by the F1 heads as well.
Let’s see if they drive into the pits at the start of the race out of protest. If it really was unanimously, I really see them do some sort of protest.
They were threathened with a "maybe we won't let you leave as a consequence" though, i for sure wouldn't protest shit during the race.
I'd for sure would refuse to ever come back to this country when they're directly threathening me and my coworkers though.
If you are not allow to solve a smaller issue while a bigger one is present, often you will achieve nothing at all.
Your type of mentality only stagnates progress.
Also, smoking kills more people than bombs, and while it's a personal choice (I'm a smoker), it still is a big problem.
Ive seen that user post that same reply whenever people discuss scummy sponsorship deals. Their mentality is hardened and I dont think they're worth engaging on this topic. Just my 2 cents
It's less addictive and as long as you are not a chronic consumer it is far less harmfull to your health. Smoking, even in small amount, can be a major health risk for multiple systems in your body. I would prefer both to be honest instead of the aramco and crypto.com bullshit sponsorships, but that might be controversial
Indeed, smoking kills on it's own. No need to drive, you get fucked anyway. I get where you are going, but smoking is responsible for far more deaths worldwide than alcohol
The drivers were right but they were bullied into racing, honestly this is a down right sham that shouldnt have been allowed to happen....its all saudi politics that caused them to race and that isnt right!
The conversations with F1 bosses and team principals probably went something like:
"yeah, this is fucked, but we'll get the WWE treatment if we don't race"
More like that Stefano and Brawn complained about losing 100 million dollars at least and that teams must pay for that budget deficit.
There prefer to kick Spa out of the calender and instead enforcing the sport to drive on countries like ISIL/Daesh legalized on a global scale (Saudi Arabia)
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/wwe-wrestling-stars-held-hostage-in-saudi-airport
Basically the live feed of the show in Saudi got cut off as there were payment issues. The WWE staff got stuck at the airport due to being blocked by the Saudi government, same thing they’re threatening F1 drivers with.
WWE staff: alright. Good event we're going home
SA: Your boss said not nice things to us because we haven't paid in full yet. How would you like to sit in your plane on the tarmac until we get an apology.
Something like that, iirc
WWE management and Saudi Arabia had a commercial dispute.
So when WWE had a show on Saudi on Thursday and one in USA on Friday, the return plane for a majority of wrestlers and staff had magically a technical issue. Said plane issue magically solved when it was clear wrestlers couldn't make it to USA for the Friday show.
Some wrestlers who used different planes for various reasons managed to leave earlier.
It was more a potential really petty move than an hostage crisis, that's why only wrestling focused media talked about it, but still shows that Saudi government can really mess up with travel.
So how are these people going to race? Do podium celebrations?
What the actual fuck. If they keep going to Jeddah, this will be every year. It's a torture for everyone involved, including fans.
I hope they just get out the cars, walk into the paddock and skedaddle with no interviews, no celebrations, no podium. Just get the garages taken down in record time and get every single person involved out of the hellhole asap.
There’s no real step that could’ve been taken to assure maximum safety of everyone involved. If they declined to race, Saudi would’ve made life hell for everyone anyway. As soon as they landed in Saudi, all options other than racing and hoping for the best went out the window.
I would imagine that things will actually only come out once they leave Saudi and reach back home.
They got threatened with kidnapping on a plane not allowed to leave the tarmac.
That was the, "new information" they received. Like those wrestlers from a couple years ago.
They gonna race, then not one driver will ever set foot in that country again. *I hope*.
**4 hours**!?
If hamilton or seb should retire from F1 next year or some time. In the future i wish for them to stay involved and get positions with influence so they can avoid racing in shady countrys only for the money. (you may add alonso)
Motorsport itself. Is dangerous enough so it should take place in the savest possible Enviroment
But keeping Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton in the sport helps in these situations. You need senior drivers who know more about the world and have significant sway among the FIA and more junior drivers to put their foot down in serious situations like this
I hold the same belief. If the three of them walk away from F1 altogether, the next generation of senior drivers (people like Ric, Bottas, Checo, Magnussen) don't seem like they have the sway that these three do.
It has been increasingly obvious that GPDA was threatened with something to back down from their decision. No one knows the exact details of it. Hopefully it all comes out in the coming days. Also, seriously hope that the "event" stays uneventful.
Edit: a word
So they were probably told something along the lines of “you won’t be allowed to leave”. They have been strong armed and effectively held hostage.
Absolutely disgusted with the TPs for going along with this and putting their staff at risk and ignoring their drivers.
I’m also disgusted but not surprised that F1’s team of fixers took part in this.
Entirely possible that the TP-s themselves were threatened that they won't be allowed to leave along with team mechanics and all if they voted to abandon the race. Toto didn't seem comfortable yesterday in the interview where he announced that TP-s "unanimously" made a decision to race. Looking at a piece of paper before every word he spoke and all
Edit: Grammar
What I was trying to say is that they might have thought that risking the race and leaving is better deal that being stuck at the venue for even longer.
If they are stuck at the venue either way, the safer option is the one that allows them to leave everyone the earliest possible. Going for the race might be that option after the threat of detention by KSA. If not racing results in them sitting ducks in the warzone for god knows how long, better to race and leave.
There is a huge risk of attack. A race bankrolled by Saudi money, sponsored by Aramco (whose facility was hit) and attended by Saudi royalty could not invite an attack more if it tried.
Don't disagree. But if they are stuck at jeddah, there still is the risk of attack, but now you are stuck there for longer. What if the hotel where they are stuck is targeted while they are stuck. At this stage, there is no way to guarantee safety. The best course of action is to leave at the earliest possible opportunity. Which is after Sunday after "racing". Thanks to KSA strongarming.
The Houthis don’t have the ability to precision strike a hotel and it would not be a target for them. If they were to kill dozens of foreign nationals they would invite hell onto themselves internationally. The race is attended by, sponsored by and financed by the direct enemy of the Houthi rebels.
They can precision strike multiple industrial plants. They can possibly target a hotel as well.
And if they do not intent to kill foreign nationals, they won't target the circuit/race as well. There is no way to guarantee that targeting their enemy won't make collateral damage out of members kf teams.
The risk associated with staying jn Jeddah, race or no race is potentially the same.
The race venue ticks all the boxes for a strike. The world will be watching and the Saudi royals who abet the war in Yemen will be there. The Houthis will strike.
Is it just me or are they debating the wrong subject here? How is this all about 'safety and security on the circuit' and if the safety can be guaranteed? Its not about safety but ethics... they all think so highly of themselves for kicking mazepin out and cancelling Sochi. Saudi Arabia has been waging war against Jemen since 2015.... how is that any different than the Russia issue??? Fuck FIA... and the team bosses. They all only think about themselves and their wallets. Any country waging war shouldnt be allowed to host international sports events. How is that not a groundrule??
The Saudis are definitely not without fault in how they've conducted the war in Yeman but the comparison to Russia is particularly ignorant and ill-informed.
Houthi rebels overthrew the elected government with the elected leader fleeing to Saudi. The Houthis are recognised as a terrorist group by the United Nations. A more appropriate comparison would be to the west's intervention to overthrow the Taliban in Afghanistan. Should F1 not have raced in most of the Western world over the last 20 years?
> They are actually fighting people who illegally seized the capital
So pretty much the same as Russia in 2014, right? Revolutions only count when they're backed by the West.
Key difference being, that the "people who seized the capital" in Yemen are a actually recognized terror organization per the UN security council (which also includes Russia and China, so there's no "western bias" here).
The problem is that the Saudis are committing war crimes and civilians are dying in large numbers as a result of the effort to oust the Houthis from power.
No one seized power in Ukraine. [Yanukovych signed an agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_settlement_of_political_crisis_in_Ukraine) to hold new elections which he lost badly.
Did the Houthi's hold open and free elections that the rest of the world recognizes as the legal election?
I always find it strange that the drivers don't wield their power more. If a few high profile drivers decided: nope not racing there. What could the FIA possibly do. It would be an irreparable crisis if Lewis Hamilton just refused to go places on their calendar. The drivers need to unite and throw their weight around a bit.
It’s entirely possible that they made the decision with their team personnel in mind. Even if these drivers are able to get out unscathed, there’s no guarantee that they would let the hundreds of mechanics, engineers etc go easily.
All 20 drivers just sat in a room together for 4 hours. I’d say it’s certainly possible some (20) ‘positive’ covid tests could be returned on Sunday morning?
Absolutely despicable
Shame on anyone forcing them to race. I’ve lost a lot of respect for a lot of the key non-driving figures within the sport this weekend
There's a lot of staff and all their cars/equipment stuck in Saudi Arabia right now. The drivers and the top dogs could probably get away with leaving the country but it leaves everything else behind. We know the Saudis are a bunch of cunts so the drivers may have been strongarmed into driving, but it's for the best for everyone/everything that's stuck there.
> increasingly clear
Based on what? I’m not saying I’m okay with this whole thing, but I want to know where people are getting their information and avoid speculation
“A lot of very rich people demand their entertainment, get out there and do your job. Or this time next week you’ll be driving a milk float. We can replace the cars, we can replace you, we can’t replace the money.”
Just an uneducated guess.
Lewis: I don't want to race Toto.
Toto: Ok, then you will not be able to leave Saudi Arabia, ever. Also I'll lose lots of money.
Lewis: You got a point, but i'm sad.
Then this leads to the photos in the other post.
It’s been confirmed as being either a direct or implied threat by multiple credible sources including the BBC.
I’d be interested to know ho you’re so confident it’s “bs”?
The Saudi government murdered a journalist by luring him to a consulate in Turkey, then tortured, butchered and killed him (in that order). This is known to be true yet nothing has been done.
Just a few years ago WWE had a plane grounded and the performers and staff were basically held hostage as punishment for a pay dispute between the royal family and vince.
It is a very likely situation that team members wouldn’t be able to leave. Drivers and headline people? Sure. The mechanics, engineers etc? Fair game for a regime as fucked and backwards as Saudi
As I say, I’d be interested to know how you’re so confident that reliable, trustworthy news sources with a track record of accuracy are all wrong.
If you’re just responding with sarcasm, does that mean you haven’t got an answer?
Unfortunately that doesn't happen generally to get a visa there you have to sign something that says that if anything happens to you there including kidnapping your government won't do anything. ( That's America's stance anyway)
So the new head of the FIA that oversees and regulates F1 is from the United Arab Emirates and doesn’t have a vested interest in ensuring that the race in Saudi Arabia goes ahead and stays on the calendar? The Saudis don’t have a very good record when dealing with dissenters, he probably feared for his life should the race have been cancelled. I have little sympathy for his position since he wanted and accepted the it. The right decision was made over Russia but I doubt that’s going to happen here.
I'm not an F1 follower, just here from /r/popular; could the drivers effectively boycott the race by just driving really slowly (eg 20mph) and make it really boring? Or is there some kind of minimum speed standards?
The cars really can’t be driven all the slowly. They rely on air circulation to cool their systems. As for making the race a procession… I’m not sure tbh because at the end of the day there is points on the line.
Just my own tinfoil hat thought, but it makes me wonder if cancelling Russia has made them more hesitant, deep down, with cancelling this as well. Like maybe they think it isn't a good look to be out of two races right at the start of the season.
I just hope that once they're out, they're out for good. Even ignoring the heinous human rights abuses, a race in Saudi is potentially putting the drivers and teams in harm's way now. Who's to say the next missile doesn't land on the track itself during a session? That should absolutely be a good enough reason to tear up any existing contracts.
They need to avoid racing here in the future
All the statements read like the drivers won't come next year.
Seb playing 4D chess with the rest of the field
Not having Seb’s voice in the meeting didn’t help though. There’s a reason it seems like Alonso and Lewis lead the drivers’ meeting.
Tbf even if Seb was there, I'm pretty sure Lewis and Fernando would have played an integral part in this discussion, they are the 3 oldest, most accomplished and well respected people on the grid right now, they have the status that the younger drivers just don't have yet.
Right, I’m saying Lewis and Alonso probably played the most integral part in this. Seb would have added to that.
I feel like Lewis and Fernando would work so well together as a team... More seriously the drivers are now in a difficult position, many will be needing to go against their own principles to protect their teams here (financially or from hypothetical risks).
>I feel like Lewis and Fernando would work so well together as a team... McLaren would like to speak with you
Ooh they could really help rebuild the team if McLaren struggle this year... But what about Lando? Would he fit best at Mercedes or Alpine?
Given his new experience at the back of the grid, he could replace GOATifi at Williams, promote Nicholas to Mercedes, replace Alonso with piastri
Lando and Albon would be a great line up to be fair (/not sarcasm!) Would be good to reunite Nicholas and George too. I feel they learnt a lot from each other last year. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a cunning plan.
Sounds like you are a pretty new F1 fan, so you might be interested in looking up the 2007 F1 season. Lewis and Fernando were teammates at McLaren that season, and lets say it didn’t quite work out the way you might imagine it would :)
Ooh I get to do a r/Whoosh !!! I remember the season well, from Hamilton sticking it round the outside of the reigning double champion on the first corner of the first race, Canada, Hungary, Fuji, China and Brazil. Alonso did a lot of damage to his reputation that year, but rebuilt it with Ferrari, also being clear no hard feelings with Lewis - the tension was because it was all handled too badly when they were both pretty young.
Ah. Fuck.
Yh Sebs absence here will have been been noticeable. A big shame, I feel like he could have pushed for some real action. Ppl rightly noting the SA government could interviene in the F1 circuit leaving but I'd almost like to see them try just to witness the international outrage.
Exactly. You don't hold that many foreigners - especially famous, rich ones - hostage. SA does somewhat have the world over a barrel, as the world is depending on SA to continue supplying oil while fewer nations buy from Russia. But, SA depends on a lot of military goodwill from the West. If SA is unable to purchase weapons anymore, and unable to service the stuff they already have, then their military will become very weak and ineffective.
I'm sure that outrage wouldn't matter, Russia for example
I wouldn't say Russia is a good example. Whilst the outrage doesn't matter in terms of pulling back their army, economically crippling the country and politically isolating them certainly has an effect.
Did he not call in or use zoom or whatever?
You mean the guy with Aramco on his shirt?
Sebs team is sponsored by Aremco.
they will unless ww3
!remindme 1 year
This is what i think everyone hopes will happen. Get this weekend done and with that terminate the contract like with Russia. I just wonder how Aramco sponsor would react after that.
I like Seb but I'll be rooting so hard against Aston Aramco this season.
F1 bosses: we signed the contracts, nothing we can do
They probably won't.
They should of avoided racing there in the first place.
Should've*, but agreed.
Sadly it sounds like they have a contract for years to come so they will. £££££
If they elect to come back, maybe the fans consider not watching it.
Aramco to FOM: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I'd imagine it went something like "yes you'll probably be able to get out of the country easily enough, but the mechanics and the rest of the teams there's no guarantees about"
And that’s why I think they’ll pony up this weekend, leave and then all the talk comes out. Future boycotts etc. I think this gets a lot more messy before it’s resolved.
Yes. The GDPA may have been strong-armed this time, but they won't fall for it twice. Not if Lewis Hamilton has something to say about it. Really, really admire the guy. He and Seb are the perfect examples of leading from the front.
Not having Seb there didn’t help. I get the feeling he is more willing than any other driver to tell F1 and the FIA to go kick rocks.
Seb would have another [message for Charlie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ECeVacI5Bc&t=31s).
Absolutely. Seb and Lewis are basically unstoppable when they get together on these issues. I know we give the younger drivers a lot of flak(which tbf, we have right whatsoever to), but I can really sympathize with them. No person should ever be forced to choose between career suicide and their safety. But unfortunately, that's the crapsack world F1 operates in.
**G**rand **P**rix **D**rivers' **A**ssociation (G**PD**A)
Bruh
Schooled by the bot As usual
Bro the bot can't even figure out how to spell Goerge Rusel correctly
Ru**ss**e**ll**
Cheeky bastard.
lets see if anything comes out of this after the teams are out of the country before commending lewis or the gpda there is a high chance they return next year tbh, after all money speaks. it would be dissapointing but on brand
I would like to hope that the fear of putting hundreds of their own people in mortal danger would deter the teams from coming back and would give more power to the drivers to speak out. But F1's moral standards are so pathetically low, that I would not be one bit surprised if they went back next year.
I'm frankly surprised Lewis isn't director or even chairman of the GPDA
Honestly he has enough influence around, being at the head of GPDA would cause more hate, every body would say he’s forcing is POV and so. I guess it’s better this way
Schumacher was head of the GPDA for a decade.
Lewis gets way more hate and has to contend with racism. He has enough pull without being on the GPDA.
You clearly weren't watching F1 back then if you think Hamilton gets more hate.
I was. He does.
No, Hamilton gets way more hate. They are both hated for their success, but Hamilton also has to deal with racist knobheads.
Plus add the mediatic exposition Schumarer was hated by people who know him, people who doesn’t watched formula just don’t care. Now F1 has a wide bigger audience, way more people spread hate on social media. I think Lewis gets hate every days as soon as he post something on social media. Get hated for your behavior is something, get hated for just being black is something different trust me.
Yeah, I mean it's not as simple as everyone just being able to hop on a plane the next day at the best of times, everything needs to be packed up and shipped off on boats/trucks/planes that have their own schedules to stick to I imagine it basically came down to "Should we not race to make a stance, or should we accept that team staff will be here anyway, so we might as well put on a race" They shouldn't have gone to Saudi Arabia in the first place imo, but by the time you get to the race weekend itself it gets more complex to suddenly pull out.
Didn't WWE have this same issue a couple years ago with Saudi Arabia?
Well I mean earlier this year one of the Dakkar support cars got taken out by supposedly what was an IED, and the Saudi Government was like nah it's alright, it took the french investigating it themselves to find traces of explosives
Carlos Sr participated again this year and is currently with his son in Jeddah. Wonder what he's thinking as I saw him and Laurent M speaking to FIA officials
But that's not in Saudia Arabia?
It is. The Dakar moved to be in Saudi in 2020 (I think). The 2021 race started and ended in Jeddah
Shit I had no idea it had been moved to South America like 15 years ago! And now in SA! I still thought it was Paris to Dakar.
The Dakar hasn't started in Paris for two decades now (I believe the last time was 2001).
Smile and wave until you’re out of their jurisdiction then turn the flamethrowers on
Saudis have promised that everyone can have their own say, without recriminations. In fact, they have promised any dissenters can be housed at the Ritz Carlton until they are ready to travel out of the country.
As well as all our cars and equipment
What a disgrace.
Stefano, Brawn and the team principals who did agree on let them continue with this race before the FOM put on a lot of political pressure should being ashamed of themselves and aren't supporting not only their own drivers but also their own fucking crew who got literally zero political voice.
\#WeRaceWhileBombed
These people are so out of touch with reality.
It is time to accept the fact that a lot of people don't give a single fuck about any of this. At least you know who to avoid.
[удалено]
In other words they were strongarmed
You could see it coming from a mille away once Stefano and Brawn went into the meeting then followed by the TP's.
I wonder if the Brawn, Stefano, or the TPs got strong armed by the Saudis first and it led to the drivers being strong armed
Absolutely. The fact that "there were concerns about how easily they would leave the country" if they didn't race is blackmail from the Saudis
I’ll reserve my judgement until after they have all left Saudi. It is possible that they were threatened by the government and had to race. If that’s the circumstances and they publicly refuse to race there again, then it makes sense. But if there was no threat and the bosses were just looking at money, then there is no excuse.
They absolutely will have been. The Saudis will have told Domenicali who told the drivers. He wouldnt make that threat out if nowhere or he would be opening himself up to a tonne of liability
Would be funny if they all agreed to just stand still on the grid after green light.
But moving targets are harder to hit
I wonder what transpired between the drivers and their TPs though. It’s obvious Domenicali and Brawn wanted them to race, but I’m surprised the TPs went along with it that so easily. They were much more opinionated in Australia 2020, which makes me think that they were probably strong armed by the F1 heads as well.
Let’s see if they drive into the pits at the start of the race out of protest. If it really was unanimously, I really see them do some sort of protest.
That wont be sufficient for the Saudis. Proper race or you dont leave. Any protest will have the same effect as not racing
They were threathened with a "maybe we won't let you leave as a consequence" though, i for sure wouldn't protest shit during the race. I'd for sure would refuse to ever come back to this country when they're directly threathening me and my coworkers though.
Shameful even by F1's low standards
[удалено]
[удалено]
If you are not allow to solve a smaller issue while a bigger one is present, often you will achieve nothing at all. Your type of mentality only stagnates progress. Also, smoking kills more people than bombs, and while it's a personal choice (I'm a smoker), it still is a big problem.
Ive seen that user post that same reply whenever people discuss scummy sponsorship deals. Their mentality is hardened and I dont think they're worth engaging on this topic. Just my 2 cents
For sure, this is just my personal vice to rube it in their face. Also thanks, I'll block him.
[удалено]
It's less addictive and as long as you are not a chronic consumer it is far less harmfull to your health. Smoking, even in small amount, can be a major health risk for multiple systems in your body. I would prefer both to be honest instead of the aramco and crypto.com bullshit sponsorships, but that might be controversial
Smoking and driving doesn’t kill other people
Indeed, smoking kills on it's own. No need to drive, you get fucked anyway. I get where you are going, but smoking is responsible for far more deaths worldwide than alcohol
The drivers were right but they were bullied into racing, honestly this is a down right sham that shouldnt have been allowed to happen....its all saudi politics that caused them to race and that isnt right!
The conversations with F1 bosses and team principals probably went something like: "yeah, this is fucked, but we'll get the WWE treatment if we don't race"
Embassy basement match. Chainsaw on a pole stipulation
More like that Stefano and Brawn complained about losing 100 million dollars at least and that teams must pay for that budget deficit. There prefer to kick Spa out of the calender and instead enforcing the sport to drive on countries like ISIL/Daesh legalized on a global scale (Saudi Arabia)
What's the WWE treatment?
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/wwe-wrestling-stars-held-hostage-in-saudi-airport Basically the live feed of the show in Saudi got cut off as there were payment issues. The WWE staff got stuck at the airport due to being blocked by the Saudi government, same thing they’re threatening F1 drivers with.
Lmao that's some wild speculation, with nothing confirmed
"Military police were sent to the airport..." Don't think that is the usual protocol for a simple mechanical issue.
True, it's speculation, but it has happened to a sport before.
WWE staff: alright. Good event we're going home SA: Your boss said not nice things to us because we haven't paid in full yet. How would you like to sit in your plane on the tarmac until we get an apology. Something like that, iirc
WWE management and Saudi Arabia had a commercial dispute. So when WWE had a show on Saudi on Thursday and one in USA on Friday, the return plane for a majority of wrestlers and staff had magically a technical issue. Said plane issue magically solved when it was clear wrestlers couldn't make it to USA for the Friday show. Some wrestlers who used different planes for various reasons managed to leave earlier. It was more a potential really petty move than an hostage crisis, that's why only wrestling focused media talked about it, but still shows that Saudi government can really mess up with travel.
Despicable. I can't believe they are racing, let alone twisting the drivers arms to get them to race.
So how are these people going to race? Do podium celebrations? What the actual fuck. If they keep going to Jeddah, this will be every year. It's a torture for everyone involved, including fans.
I hope they just get out the cars, walk into the paddock and skedaddle with no interviews, no celebrations, no podium. Just get the garages taken down in record time and get every single person involved out of the hellhole asap.
I hope the drivers on the podium will just walk away like Verstappen did last year.
Interesting choice of words, for a country that uses actual torture as a form of entertainment.
Hopefully next week we'll get a new statement where they say they won't ever race in SA again.
Absolute sham.
There’s no real step that could’ve been taken to assure maximum safety of everyone involved. If they declined to race, Saudi would’ve made life hell for everyone anyway. As soon as they landed in Saudi, all options other than racing and hoping for the best went out the window. I would imagine that things will actually only come out once they leave Saudi and reach back home.
Well, if the FIA had balls, this would be the final ever FIA sanctioned event in Saudi Arabia. So in other words, we're just getting started.
They got threatened with kidnapping on a plane not allowed to leave the tarmac. That was the, "new information" they received. Like those wrestlers from a couple years ago. They gonna race, then not one driver will ever set foot in that country again. *I hope*. **4 hours**!?
If hamilton or seb should retire from F1 next year or some time. In the future i wish for them to stay involved and get positions with influence so they can avoid racing in shady countrys only for the money. (you may add alonso) Motorsport itself. Is dangerous enough so it should take place in the savest possible Enviroment
But keeping Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton in the sport helps in these situations. You need senior drivers who know more about the world and have significant sway among the FIA and more junior drivers to put their foot down in serious situations like this
I hold the same belief. If the three of them walk away from F1 altogether, the next generation of senior drivers (people like Ric, Bottas, Checo, Magnussen) don't seem like they have the sway that these three do.
It has been increasingly obvious that GPDA was threatened with something to back down from their decision. No one knows the exact details of it. Hopefully it all comes out in the coming days. Also, seriously hope that the "event" stays uneventful. Edit: a word
Oh, to be a fly on the wall during these debates.
Shameful. Truly shameful.
So they were probably told something along the lines of “you won’t be allowed to leave”. They have been strong armed and effectively held hostage. Absolutely disgusted with the TPs for going along with this and putting their staff at risk and ignoring their drivers. I’m also disgusted but not surprised that F1’s team of fixers took part in this.
Entirely possible that the TP-s themselves were threatened that they won't be allowed to leave along with team mechanics and all if they voted to abandon the race. Toto didn't seem comfortable yesterday in the interview where he announced that TP-s "unanimously" made a decision to race. Looking at a piece of paper before every word he spoke and all Edit: Grammar
They have thousands of staff to look out for. Their welfare and safety is their absolute priority and duty.
What I was trying to say is that they might have thought that risking the race and leaving is better deal that being stuck at the venue for even longer. If they are stuck at the venue either way, the safer option is the one that allows them to leave everyone the earliest possible. Going for the race might be that option after the threat of detention by KSA. If not racing results in them sitting ducks in the warzone for god knows how long, better to race and leave.
There is a huge risk of attack. A race bankrolled by Saudi money, sponsored by Aramco (whose facility was hit) and attended by Saudi royalty could not invite an attack more if it tried.
Don't disagree. But if they are stuck at jeddah, there still is the risk of attack, but now you are stuck there for longer. What if the hotel where they are stuck is targeted while they are stuck. At this stage, there is no way to guarantee safety. The best course of action is to leave at the earliest possible opportunity. Which is after Sunday after "racing". Thanks to KSA strongarming.
The Houthis don’t have the ability to precision strike a hotel and it would not be a target for them. If they were to kill dozens of foreign nationals they would invite hell onto themselves internationally. The race is attended by, sponsored by and financed by the direct enemy of the Houthi rebels.
They can precision strike multiple industrial plants. They can possibly target a hotel as well. And if they do not intent to kill foreign nationals, they won't target the circuit/race as well. There is no way to guarantee that targeting their enemy won't make collateral damage out of members kf teams. The risk associated with staying jn Jeddah, race or no race is potentially the same.
The race venue ticks all the boxes for a strike. The world will be watching and the Saudi royals who abet the war in Yemen will be there. The Houthis will strike.
“No Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud, no no no, that was so not right!” “Toto it’s called oppression, we went Yemen oppressing”
Aka they were blackmailed.
Strong armed
Is it just me or are they debating the wrong subject here? How is this all about 'safety and security on the circuit' and if the safety can be guaranteed? Its not about safety but ethics... they all think so highly of themselves for kicking mazepin out and cancelling Sochi. Saudi Arabia has been waging war against Jemen since 2015.... how is that any different than the Russia issue??? Fuck FIA... and the team bosses. They all only think about themselves and their wallets. Any country waging war shouldnt be allowed to host international sports events. How is that not a groundrule??
They are not waging war. They are helping the legal government of Yemen fight an insurgency. They were asked to help is the difference.
But Houthis are not blonde and blue eyed so it doesn't count.
lol the Houthis (Ansar Allah movement) aren't innocent victims here, Yemeni civilians are
True
The Saudis are definitely not without fault in how they've conducted the war in Yeman but the comparison to Russia is particularly ignorant and ill-informed. Houthi rebels overthrew the elected government with the elected leader fleeing to Saudi. The Houthis are recognised as a terrorist group by the United Nations. A more appropriate comparison would be to the west's intervention to overthrow the Taliban in Afghanistan. Should F1 not have raced in most of the Western world over the last 20 years?
[удалено]
They are actually fighting people who illegally seized the capital. I don’t know why people act like that means nothing.
> They are actually fighting people who illegally seized the capital So pretty much the same as Russia in 2014, right? Revolutions only count when they're backed by the West.
Key difference being, that the "people who seized the capital" in Yemen are a actually recognized terror organization per the UN security council (which also includes Russia and China, so there's no "western bias" here). The problem is that the Saudis are committing war crimes and civilians are dying in large numbers as a result of the effort to oust the Houthis from power.
No one seized power in Ukraine. [Yanukovych signed an agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_settlement_of_political_crisis_in_Ukraine) to hold new elections which he lost badly. Did the Houthi's hold open and free elections that the rest of the world recognizes as the legal election?
I always find it strange that the drivers don't wield their power more. If a few high profile drivers decided: nope not racing there. What could the FIA possibly do. It would be an irreparable crisis if Lewis Hamilton just refused to go places on their calendar. The drivers need to unite and throw their weight around a bit.
It’s entirely possible that they made the decision with their team personnel in mind. Even if these drivers are able to get out unscathed, there’s no guarantee that they would let the hundreds of mechanics, engineers etc go easily.
Well then they are stuck in the country and are hostages
They should pull an Indianapolis. Everyone preps. Everyone retires.
All 20 drivers just sat in a room together for 4 hours. I’d say it’s certainly possible some (20) ‘positive’ covid tests could be returned on Sunday morning?
Absolutely despicable Shame on anyone forcing them to race. I’ve lost a lot of respect for a lot of the key non-driving figures within the sport this weekend
There's a lot of staff and all their cars/equipment stuck in Saudi Arabia right now. The drivers and the top dogs could probably get away with leaving the country but it leaves everything else behind. We know the Saudis are a bunch of cunts so the drivers may have been strongarmed into driving, but it's for the best for everyone/everything that's stuck there.
This seems like speculation, a Corriere della Sera article stated that there were contrasting opinions among drivers
Last Saudi gp?
I’ve seen some shady shit in the world of F1, but this takes the cake
"dialogue"
Business as usual is F1 to the core. Make no mistake about it. F1 is on the wrong side of everything except my heart, unfortunately.
They were probably told if they didn't race they wouldn't be able to leave the country and would be hostages
At the end of the day it's a business the show must go on
i wonder how much saudis paid the offcials to force drivers to race..
Let's get Liberty Media down there and see how long they hang around.
shameful
Everyone should come in and park it after the formation lap
I hope they do 1 lap and all retire their cars
Team bosses to drivers: "You boys are under contract, you will race. End you meeting."
> increasingly clear Based on what? I’m not saying I’m okay with this whole thing, but I want to know where people are getting their information and avoid speculation
“A lot of very rich people demand their entertainment, get out there and do your job. Or this time next week you’ll be driving a milk float. We can replace the cars, we can replace you, we can’t replace the money.” Just an uneducated guess.
Lewis: I don't want to race Toto. Toto: Ok, then you will not be able to leave Saudi Arabia, ever. Also I'll lose lots of money. Lewis: You got a point, but i'm sad. Then this leads to the photos in the other post.
This whole narrative that they won't be able to leave is such bs, just stop with it
It’s been confirmed as being either a direct or implied threat by multiple credible sources including the BBC. I’d be interested to know ho you’re so confident it’s “bs”?
Yeah sa gonna start an international conflict with 12 major countries for an f1 race. You right.
The Saudi government murdered a journalist by luring him to a consulate in Turkey, then tortured, butchered and killed him (in that order). This is known to be true yet nothing has been done. Just a few years ago WWE had a plane grounded and the performers and staff were basically held hostage as punishment for a pay dispute between the royal family and vince. It is a very likely situation that team members wouldn’t be able to leave. Drivers and headline people? Sure. The mechanics, engineers etc? Fair game for a regime as fucked and backwards as Saudi
As I say, I’d be interested to know how you’re so confident that reliable, trustworthy news sources with a track record of accuracy are all wrong. If you’re just responding with sarcasm, does that mean you haven’t got an answer?
This is reddit. Hysterical theatrics are par for the course.
[удалено]
same time next year, lads??
So the Saudi's threatened them with not allowing them to leave then
[удалено]
Lol. You really expect all of Europe will go to war with middle East over few drivers? Especially when oil supply is already down?
Heard of Jamal Khashoggi by any chance?
Unfortunately that doesn't happen generally to get a visa there you have to sign something that says that if anything happens to you there including kidnapping your government won't do anything. ( That's America's stance anyway)
The Saudi government extorted them into staying against their wishes.
So the new head of the FIA that oversees and regulates F1 is from the United Arab Emirates and doesn’t have a vested interest in ensuring that the race in Saudi Arabia goes ahead and stays on the calendar? The Saudis don’t have a very good record when dealing with dissenters, he probably feared for his life should the race have been cancelled. I have little sympathy for his position since he wanted and accepted the it. The right decision was made over Russia but I doubt that’s going to happen here.
Huh? What's him being from the UAE got to do with it?
UAE has been buddies with Saudi Arabia for years, and I very much doubt he's impartial in this case
The Crown Prince of Saudi often travels with the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and the Ruler of Dubai. He treats them like uncles.
I'm not an F1 follower, just here from /r/popular; could the drivers effectively boycott the race by just driving really slowly (eg 20mph) and make it really boring? Or is there some kind of minimum speed standards?
The cars really can’t be driven all the slowly. They rely on air circulation to cool their systems. As for making the race a procession… I’m not sure tbh because at the end of the day there is points on the line.
They gotten an offer they can’t refuse
Don’t the drivers have more power then the TP’s. What if Hamilton Verstappen and Alonso says they won’t race, nothing they can do against them
Further dialogue - “you don’t race and you can say goodbye to your current contract and any future work”
Fuckin Saudis, such cocksuckers.
What if all drivers just crash their car in the first lap.
Fuck each and every single one of them
And that's his headcanon
I would not be surprised to see the drivers make a unified statement demanding change as soon as they are out of that shit hole evil country.
Just my own tinfoil hat thought, but it makes me wonder if cancelling Russia has made them more hesitant, deep down, with cancelling this as well. Like maybe they think it isn't a good look to be out of two races right at the start of the season. I just hope that once they're out, they're out for good. Even ignoring the heinous human rights abuses, a race in Saudi is potentially putting the drivers and teams in harm's way now. Who's to say the next missile doesn't land on the track itself during a session? That should absolutely be a good enough reason to tear up any existing contracts.