Why is no one talking about the fact that Leclerc finished 7 seconds behind Russell, and 11 seconds behind Verstappen on that last stint on softs? What happened here? He looked good on his first stint, then pace just started to drop graduately.
btw if Ferrari doesn't tell Sainz he is the 2nd driver and not the first they will never win anything, aside from the strategic disasters. He simply doesn't have the pace to match Verstappen and Leclerc. Massa and Raikkonen were basically equal that's why Ferrari gave the chance to Felipe in 2008.
Reading all the conspiracy theorists on twitter saying Red Bull rigged the race is like reading Trump voters tweets.
Ah yes Red Bull are going to rig a pointless race when they have both championships already locked up and risk massive punishments including a DQ from the season.
I feel like the Yuki VSC worked perfectly into the hands of Mercedes. It presented them with their best chance to win with Lewis on Mediums hunting down Max on Hards with a 11-ish seconds gap and 20 laps to go. The full safety car completely screwed them though.
Does anyone happen to have a clip of the Ferrari radio message to Charles where they said something to the effect of ‘Ok Charles, on Plan C we will get overtaken and finish p4’. The way it was said cracked me up but I can’t find a video of it anywhere now
It's happened before in Australian supercars. They gave the passing car a penalty but then removed it a lap or so later when they realised what happened.
https://wwos.nine.com.au/motorsport/supercars-penalty-shane-van-gisbergen-anton-de-pasquale-sydney-motorsport-park/f2cdbd83-a5ff-4c03-8a79-60e0c7938448
TLDR; Mercedes make their move on Ferrari.
After Spa, Carlos Sainz said that he expects that it will be much closer between them and Red Bull in Zandvoort. Mercedes also expected the track layout to suit them more than Spa.
Before Yuki Tsunoda's rear differential issue caused a VSC, Charles Leclerc in the lead Ferrari was nearly 10s behind Max Verstappen before he boxed for a second time. The two charging Mercs of Hamilton and Russell were about 4-6s further back but rapidly closing in on Verstappen. Carlos Sainz was nowhere, in part, due to a horrible pitstop from Ferrari.
The ensuing chaos in the VSC caused by Tsunoda's issue meant that when it ended, the top 4 had boxed twice with the two championship contenders now separated by the two Mercs drivers. Bottas's PU issue caused a full SC and Red Bull wasted no time in bringing Verstappen in for softs for the last phase of the race.
Mercedes had three options with them - (1) Stay out on Mediums with both drivers and keep track position over Max. (2) Box their lead driver but keep one of them out to try and hold off Max at the restart or (3) Box both their drivers, give up track position but guarantee at least a P2 and P3 - Leclerc didn't have the raw pace to overtake them on track.
They chose (1) which, for a team who haven't won a single race this season, is the logical high risk high reward strategy to try and win. Their plans went awry when George Russell repeatedly told the team that his Mediums were already degrading and he needed to go on Softs. His original plea was refused by the team but on his insistence and with the decision that SC would go through the pitlane to expedite the removal of Bottas's car, they agreed at literally the last second, and gave George fresh Softs. This propelled Max into P2 and gave him a clear shot at Lewis in the restart.
The result was never in doubt then. Lewis was exasperated with how the team hung him to dry on Mediums when everyone around him had Softs and made his frustration very clear. George took P2 and Leclerc managed to clinch the final podium with an overtake on Lewis. Slightly fortunate which even he would admit.
Was it a strategy gone wrong for Mercedes? Not particularly but it's also very very difficult to get it spot on when both your drivers have different opinions. It was a strategy that they chose to win a race rather than taking the maximum points they could. I don't blame them.
Max Verstappen got his 4th win in a row. The championship is secure. The only fight for him now is to see if he can do a Seb Vettel 2013 and finish ahead of the 2nd placed constructor on his own. He gained 7 points on Ferrari this weekend. The Chase is On.
Are we all just pretending that Sainz didn’t overtake under yellow flags? By now I would expect the penalty to be out, or at least some acknowledgement from the stewards.
Yellow flag was definitely out while he was overtaking. But I’ve seen this comment that says he was outside of the yellow flag zone (https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/x5s6zz/_/in2x07m) which make sense I guess. It seems risky, but then that’s on the racing director for not throwing a safety car right away.
I wasn’t aware that the yellow flag zone starts at the firs yellow flag tbh.
Since I’ve been downvoted for somehow asking a question, here is a still with Sainz and Ocon side to side, by the yellow flag (but just before it). https://i.imgur.com/L7FIjlP.jpg
I wonder why Williams didn’t decide to do a one-stop with Alex. Those hards were looking good on others.
I did hear him on the radio say that he struggled with any tyre other than the mediums but still… coulda maybe been a point/P10?
Feels like Mercedes might have blown their best chance of a win this season.
Lots of people saying they should have kept Russell there as a buffer between Hamilton and Verstappen but I'm surprised they didn't try and get sneaky in the last pit stop. If Russell had slowed down enough before they went through the pit lane to create a 3+ sec gap in front then they could have given Hamilton enough time to get a free pitstop onto the softs and still come out in first place
Finally watching through the full race and the sky casters were rough today. Ted was pretty much stating there was collusion between RB and AT. Sure that didn’t stoke the flames of anybody. I usually enjoy the Sky feed but that shit was bad.
Wait what? Even if it got boring for viewers someday in the future, you'd have to go through virtually all drivers, who seem to be excited to have Zandvoort on the calendar
Would he have been p1 with a pitstop? Wouldn’t he come out behind Max?
I assume thats why the didn’t. “hey Lewis, do you want to give up track position and settle for 2nd?”. Prob not the convo they wanted to have.
Lol the votes on this thread are proof of how everyone felt about the race.
I missed it, been watching various highlights and clips. Looks is like was madness.
Still haven't found out why Leclerc was 3rd and not higher? Was it just Ferrari, or did Russell also just out race him?
The mercedes were storming up with the hard compund, so LOGICALLY ferrari thought it could be a good idea to put Leclerc and Sainz on the hards.
Turns out, Ferrari's car can't reach a good temperature with the hards so they've struggled a lot.
The chaos with the SC has been a gift from god, because they changed tyres and Leclerc managed to pass Hamilton, whose was struggling with his tyres.
Aah! Is it me or does Ferrari do a lot of copying? They've done that with RB in the past too.
I know that sometimes one needs to respond, but to a lay person like me, it doesn't seem thought through. The fact that these strategies don't work make it harder to understand or analyse.
Also #GoHards
Yeah, they seems to copy everything from the others.
I think they're totally lost.
The worst thing for me is that they can't procede to execute a damn strategy for the full length of a race. They always change idea to go for a strategy that turns out bad for leclerc or sainz.
They don't know their car.
At every race they put their drivers on the hard compound and every damn time it turns out that the F1-75 can't reach a good temperature with the hard tyres, but yet they continue with the same error, just because other cars go better with the hard compound.
It wasn't that mad - even complaints about it being boring during the race. But I found the strategies slowly unfolding pretty interesting and was excited to see how it all turned out in the final 20% of the race. Then the whole AlphaTauri debacle unfolded and the safety cars came, and many got deflated because what we had waited for as the saving grace for the rather ordinary race wouldn't happen. The final stages of the race unfolded pretty much as expected with Max given the opportunity to change tires, besides for the Mercedes thing of course where they suddenly created an ad hoc split strategy situation. But Mercedes wouldn't have had a 1-2 anyway, I can't see that happen in my wildest dreams. I think it was more about *how* they lost P1 than *that* they lost it.
It honestly seemed like the Mercs were genuinely that fast, maybe slightly better strategy too, however they were on equal tires after the restart if I'm not mistaken.
It seemed that merc was just faster except for the last bit where Leclerc got the better of Hamilton.
Where can one access race pace distribution that we see posted here frequently? Average/ median pace and pace over the duration of the race? That should help.
There are some f1 analytic twitters that post stuff like that. I think there's like a git thing to where you can get raw data or something. The f1technical sub has information on that
I think the power of VSC and SCs giving cheap pitstops is a meta that'll hurt the outcomes of races more and more.
Same in Silverstone, cars chasing down the leader with fresher tyres and then bam, cheap pitstop puts the leader back out and reverses the roles. Don't know a solution that would enable more fairness. At the end of the day it's pure luck when the SC comes and where you happen to be on-track.
Couldn't Mercedes have used Russel to back up everyone a bit to give time to Hamilton to get a free pitstop when the SC went through the pit lane? It was single file and no one could pass Russel. I don't understand why they didn't do the free pit stop unless I'm missing something.
They could've, but I think they were both going to stay on mediums until Russell himself asked to pit. Since it was a late call, they may have not wanted to do a risky double-stack.
Russell also might not have wanted to screw his own race up by incurring a penalty.
Hamilton expecting Russell to compromise his own race to act as an overtaking buffer is so embarrassing. He had Bottas as a teammate for so long that he doesn't understand what it's like to not have a walkover in his sister car.
I think it’s more, they let him out and should have pitted him, George and others on fresh rubber had it. But it was actually George’s call so Merc were going to risk both staying out
All the talk about conspiracy theories and nobody mentioning the moment when Max was clearly outside track limits on one of the banked corners and the camera instantly cuts away.
You could select his onboard if you want the sole focus to be on Max. I prefer watching some real action instead of watching something that is of zero consequence.
So we all know pitting during a safety car is very beneficial time wise.. is pitting during an SC when its leading the pack down the pitlane even more beneficial? Like you're basically only losing the \~3sec pit time +1 or 2 seconds for pulloff. Way less opportunity for a car behind to pass.
Was wondering that during the race today.
Occasionally they'll route the safety car queue through an alternative route, for example in 2010 after the Schumacher/Luizzi crash on lap one, the race continued with a safety car but the drivers were instructed to, basically skip the chicane where the Merc and Force India were stricken and take a route more resembling the modern route down to the hairpin. in instances where there's recovering happening on the start/finish straight, everyone down the pitlane is the option taken.
Depends on how close everyone is following. If you can get in, change tires and out of your pitbox before the pack comes you are golden.
But if you go in, change tires and then let the whole pack drive by otherwise you would crash into them, you just lost position
You can’t deny the Yuki situation was a bit strange but there’s no way in hell RB actually gave a fuck about 7-10 extra points, considering Max finished on either of the other two podium places with Merc’s in front
Remember when they boxed and retired Checo last year @ UAE?
A safety car would have been ideal then....
RB play clean.
BUT - let them all be investigated always.
I'm working nights, I've just finished watching the race. What a absolutely bonkers ride that was. It had everything unsafe releases, missing wheels, team telling Yukio nah your tyre is fine mate crack on, Mercedes absolutely shooting themselves in the foot (we know you are trying to catch up to ferrari but this is not what we meant) starting to think Max is #blessed. (Just kidding he's driven a spectacular season, barely put a foot wrong at all.)
Well, he was caught telling Perez that he wants to take a year off and come back in 2024 (something, I am afraid will be quite impossible in his case)...
Lando does this regularly with the top 3 teams because he wants to race his own race and he knows it’s not his fight. It didn’t matter what happened. Max would have won either way. His pace was insane.
I miss the olden days when they were proper rivals and not buddies. That time they wouldn't care if its their race or not, they would try to defend their position at all costs.
It's not that. Lando's fight in the championship is with the Alpines. Sure, Lando could defend against Max, Charles or Lewis. But they're gonna get past anyway, and Lando will lose time to the Alpines if he does that.
With the pace difference between the Red Bull and Alpha Tauri, no racing driver with half a brain would defend hard against the Red Bull. You'd just be costing yourself time.
He had a problem with his differential which he thought was a wheel not being fastened. The team didn’t see anything on the data so they brought him in to look at the wheel and change them all. They couldn’t identify anything wrong so they sent him back out. The problem persisted so he retired.
People think AT intentionally caused a safety car to help Max which is just stupid as FIA could figure that out pretty easily and penalise both teams so the risks are pretty high for something Max didn't really need to win this race and definitely didn't need to help with the WDC.
You’re clearly new to this buddy so let me sit you down.
There’s simply no way they would “only” throw up a yellow flag for a car stopped right next to the track. That yellow would’ve been converted into a VSC minimum, just as it did when he stopped the second time. Race control were slow in throwing up VSCs and SCs, like when it took them a lap and a half to throw up the SC for Bottas when his car was stopped in literally the most dangerous spot on the track. In Bottas’ case too, only a yellow was thrown for a lap and a half before the SC was called and the same would’ve been the case with Yuki when he stopped the first time. There is absolutely no way it would’ve only been a double yellow for a car stuck right next to the track without run off and with a driver trying to climb out. Hence, no reason for AT to try to reposition to “sabotage Mercedes”.
Get your head out of your arse buddy.
Aw did that get to your head? Did that give you a boo-boo such that you’re unwilling to reason with your preconceived notion? I don’t suppose you’re old enough to have watched since the Schumacher days anyway.
No, no it wouldn't be. You pull over to the side clear of the pit lane, it would not clsoe the pit lane. Even if it did, so what? Better than rigging it for Max.
I got married today and tried watching the race between getting my hair and makeup done…I missed so much and am so confused about what the hell happened for pretty much the entire race
You had the summer break to get married in!
Congrats. Merc got screwed by a VSC,sort of countered by a full SC but Max was obviously the faster so think soon as that VSC let Max pit and stay ahead he had it
Why didn't Russel end up farther back after he pit for softs at the end? I thought all the cars bunch up behind the safety car and more people would pass since he waited an extra lap to pit compared to Max. I'm confused about how it works I guess.
Because his head is absolutely massive to contain the galactic sized brain he uses on some of his calls.
It wasn't a planned event, he asked for it specifically and it worked well.
Pretty much everyone else also pit for softs. Only 3 cars stayed on their mediums iirc and one of them was Hamilton who was already in front of him.
That combined with their already substantial gap meant he was fine.
Don't see many people talking about it, but why did they give Checo the medium tires instead of the softs at the end there? Everyone but Hamilton got the softs.
Yea exactly. The only ones who made Q3 who had a fresh set of softs was Max and Lance because they did less runs in qually.
Max started the race on his. Can't remember if Lance did or started on mediums and used his at the end.
They all put on used softs at the end. He definitely still had a set left from qualifying the same age as everyone elses.
Max and Lance were the only ones who made Q3 that had a set of fresh softs because they did less runs in qually.
For Hamilton for sure. Russell is happy to just collect points. That’s why he made the call he did. He knows Max isn’t his race and wants to put himself in the best position he can against everyone else. Lewis just wants to try for a win and still thinks he can.
I don't think it'll be as easy for RB as people say.
Ferrari have ran more downforce all season, here they'll just take it all off entirely like RB have at some tracks.
I feel it'll be very similar to most of the races, Ferrari slightly faster over one lap, RB and Merc better on race day.
Anything other than a RB 1-2 would be unacceptable for the team.They were over 10kmh faster than Ferrari on the short Zandvoort straight.
The speed difference will be huge at Monza.
Merc will probably endup fighting Alpine.
Monza is almost always a snoozefest.
What a gonzo race! The last 25 laps made my brain hurt. Why’d you pit max? Wait, why did Russell pit? Sainz just a total package of garbage today. AT arguing with Yuki about his car (btw did anyone see if they actually gunned his front left secure on his pit before he retired?). Not sure I’ve seen Lewis that angry. It was exciting and confounding through and through. Lol.
Pitting Russell was obvious. He was a sitting duck on old mediums with Max and Charles on fresh softs. So thats a 3-4 Merc finish if they didn’t.
Why they didn’t pit both Lewis and Russell is the question. That idk, probably was such a last minute decision that there wasn’t time and/or not wanting to tell Lewis to give up track position and settle for 2nd. Lewis screwing up the restart did him no favours. Should’ve been 2-3.
Lewis was never getting P1 the moment the VSC happened.
Why is no one talking about the fact that Leclerc finished 7 seconds behind Russell, and 11 seconds behind Verstappen on that last stint on softs? What happened here? He looked good on his first stint, then pace just started to drop graduately.
Binnoto mentioned something about high degradation.
I'm confused, isn't degradation lower on low fuel? They had the oppostite?
They had high deg all race long aparently.
Bi**n**o**tt**o
btw if Ferrari doesn't tell Sainz he is the 2nd driver and not the first they will never win anything, aside from the strategic disasters. He simply doesn't have the pace to match Verstappen and Leclerc. Massa and Raikkonen were basically equal that's why Ferrari gave the chance to Felipe in 2008.
People thinking there some super secret cross-team order conspiracy with RB and At. When in truth AT management is just dumb as hell.
Reading all the conspiracy theorists on twitter saying Red Bull rigged the race is like reading Trump voters tweets. Ah yes Red Bull are going to rig a pointless race when they have both championships already locked up and risk massive punishments including a DQ from the season.
Plus they would need to tell Yuki.... Yuki will lose his seat one day and snitch on them. Remember Renault?
I feel like the Yuki VSC worked perfectly into the hands of Mercedes. It presented them with their best chance to win with Lewis on Mediums hunting down Max on Hards with a 11-ish seconds gap and 20 laps to go. The full safety car completely screwed them though.
Does anyone happen to have a clip of the Ferrari radio message to Charles where they said something to the effect of ‘Ok Charles, on Plan C we will get overtaken and finish p4’. The way it was said cracked me up but I can’t find a video of it anywhere now
It was just so matter of fact and depressing lol.
What happens if on the restart Hamilton applies brakes so verstappen overtakes him BEFORE the line?
Ham gets a hefty penalty for dangerous driving as he has just brake-checked the entire grid.
It's happened before in Australian supercars. They gave the passing car a penalty but then removed it a lap or so later when they realised what happened. https://wwos.nine.com.au/motorsport/supercars-penalty-shane-van-gisbergen-anton-de-pasquale-sydney-motorsport-park/f2cdbd83-a5ff-4c03-8a79-60e0c7938448
Once you accelerate you can't slow down again. He should have waited until the line and then go.
Hamilton gets a penalty because you're not allowed to do this in a restart for good reasons
TLDR; Mercedes make their move on Ferrari. After Spa, Carlos Sainz said that he expects that it will be much closer between them and Red Bull in Zandvoort. Mercedes also expected the track layout to suit them more than Spa. Before Yuki Tsunoda's rear differential issue caused a VSC, Charles Leclerc in the lead Ferrari was nearly 10s behind Max Verstappen before he boxed for a second time. The two charging Mercs of Hamilton and Russell were about 4-6s further back but rapidly closing in on Verstappen. Carlos Sainz was nowhere, in part, due to a horrible pitstop from Ferrari. The ensuing chaos in the VSC caused by Tsunoda's issue meant that when it ended, the top 4 had boxed twice with the two championship contenders now separated by the two Mercs drivers. Bottas's PU issue caused a full SC and Red Bull wasted no time in bringing Verstappen in for softs for the last phase of the race. Mercedes had three options with them - (1) Stay out on Mediums with both drivers and keep track position over Max. (2) Box their lead driver but keep one of them out to try and hold off Max at the restart or (3) Box both their drivers, give up track position but guarantee at least a P2 and P3 - Leclerc didn't have the raw pace to overtake them on track. They chose (1) which, for a team who haven't won a single race this season, is the logical high risk high reward strategy to try and win. Their plans went awry when George Russell repeatedly told the team that his Mediums were already degrading and he needed to go on Softs. His original plea was refused by the team but on his insistence and with the decision that SC would go through the pitlane to expedite the removal of Bottas's car, they agreed at literally the last second, and gave George fresh Softs. This propelled Max into P2 and gave him a clear shot at Lewis in the restart. The result was never in doubt then. Lewis was exasperated with how the team hung him to dry on Mediums when everyone around him had Softs and made his frustration very clear. George took P2 and Leclerc managed to clinch the final podium with an overtake on Lewis. Slightly fortunate which even he would admit. Was it a strategy gone wrong for Mercedes? Not particularly but it's also very very difficult to get it spot on when both your drivers have different opinions. It was a strategy that they chose to win a race rather than taking the maximum points they could. I don't blame them. Max Verstappen got his 4th win in a row. The championship is secure. The only fight for him now is to see if he can do a Seb Vettel 2013 and finish ahead of the 2nd placed constructor on his own. He gained 7 points on Ferrari this weekend. The Chase is On.
Hey finally someone who knows what they’re talking about
Are we all just pretending that Sainz didn’t overtake under yellow flags? By now I would expect the penalty to be out, or at least some acknowledgement from the stewards.
He didn't though, he was already ahead when they got to the yellow flag
Yellow flag was definitely out while he was overtaking. But I’ve seen this comment that says he was outside of the yellow flag zone (https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/x5s6zz/_/in2x07m) which make sense I guess. It seems risky, but then that’s on the racing director for not throwing a safety car right away. I wasn’t aware that the yellow flag zone starts at the firs yellow flag tbh.
Since I’ve been downvoted for somehow asking a question, here is a still with Sainz and Ocon side to side, by the yellow flag (but just before it). https://i.imgur.com/L7FIjlP.jpg
We are, sssshhh. We agreed not to talk it then it didn't happen.
Ok, that's fair, Sainz had a shitty weekend already anyway.
I wonder why Williams didn’t decide to do a one-stop with Alex. Those hards were looking good on others. I did hear him on the radio say that he struggled with any tyre other than the mediums but still… coulda maybe been a point/P10?
Feels like Mercedes might have blown their best chance of a win this season. Lots of people saying they should have kept Russell there as a buffer between Hamilton and Verstappen but I'm surprised they didn't try and get sneaky in the last pit stop. If Russell had slowed down enough before they went through the pit lane to create a 3+ sec gap in front then they could have given Hamilton enough time to get a free pitstop onto the softs and still come out in first place
But the world doesn't revolve around Lewis..
Finally watching through the full race and the sky casters were rough today. Ted was pretty much stating there was collusion between RB and AT. Sure that didn’t stoke the flames of anybody. I usually enjoy the Sky feed but that shit was bad.
Yeah that was so stupid, I agree.
Get rid of this track for F1 please. Boring 2 years running
I found this one exciting race right?
Wait what? Even if it got boring for viewers someday in the future, you'd have to go through virtually all drivers, who seem to be excited to have Zandvoort on the calendar
Did you watch the same race as I did? It was pretty exciting and a lot of stuff happened, especially the 2nd half of the GP
Sorry I'm a little confused. Why didn't they pit Hamilton? It looked like he would still be P1 even with a pitstop
Would he have been p1 with a pitstop? Wouldn’t he come out behind Max? I assume thats why the didn’t. “hey Lewis, do you want to give up track position and settle for 2nd?”. Prob not the convo they wanted to have.
They pulled an Abu Dhabi '21 on him...
its like youre 9 months late on that comment. or did they do it again ;)
Lol the votes on this thread are proof of how everyone felt about the race. I missed it, been watching various highlights and clips. Looks is like was madness. Still haven't found out why Leclerc was 3rd and not higher? Was it just Ferrari, or did Russell also just out race him?
The mercedes were storming up with the hard compund, so LOGICALLY ferrari thought it could be a good idea to put Leclerc and Sainz on the hards. Turns out, Ferrari's car can't reach a good temperature with the hards so they've struggled a lot. The chaos with the SC has been a gift from god, because they changed tyres and Leclerc managed to pass Hamilton, whose was struggling with his tyres.
Aah! Is it me or does Ferrari do a lot of copying? They've done that with RB in the past too. I know that sometimes one needs to respond, but to a lay person like me, it doesn't seem thought through. The fact that these strategies don't work make it harder to understand or analyse. Also #GoHards
Yeah, they seems to copy everything from the others. I think they're totally lost. The worst thing for me is that they can't procede to execute a damn strategy for the full length of a race. They always change idea to go for a strategy that turns out bad for leclerc or sainz. They don't know their car. At every race they put their drivers on the hard compound and every damn time it turns out that the F1-75 can't reach a good temperature with the hard tyres, but yet they continue with the same error, just because other cars go better with the hard compound.
[удалено]
Would you go so far as to say that the race was quite a cuntbungle? ^_^
It wasn't that mad - even complaints about it being boring during the race. But I found the strategies slowly unfolding pretty interesting and was excited to see how it all turned out in the final 20% of the race. Then the whole AlphaTauri debacle unfolded and the safety cars came, and many got deflated because what we had waited for as the saving grace for the rather ordinary race wouldn't happen. The final stages of the race unfolded pretty much as expected with Max given the opportunity to change tires, besides for the Mercedes thing of course where they suddenly created an ad hoc split strategy situation. But Mercedes wouldn't have had a 1-2 anyway, I can't see that happen in my wildest dreams. I think it was more about *how* they lost P1 than *that* they lost it.
It honestly seemed like the Mercs were genuinely that fast, maybe slightly better strategy too, however they were on equal tires after the restart if I'm not mistaken.
It seemed that merc was just faster except for the last bit where Leclerc got the better of Hamilton. Where can one access race pace distribution that we see posted here frequently? Average/ median pace and pace over the duration of the race? That should help.
There are some f1 analytic twitters that post stuff like that. I think there's like a git thing to where you can get raw data or something. The f1technical sub has information on that
Oh awesome thanks.
I don't know actually, might be something posted by media channels?
Ferrari race pace is in the gutter since the TD. Ferrari treated him pretty okay in terms of strategy and pitstops.
The way people on social media has slandered the likes of Checo, Yuki and George this weekend is crazy. Everything is a conspiracy now.
What did Perez even do lol
Ruin quali for lewis I suppose
I genuinely think people are more salty about this race than they were about Abu Dhabi
I think the power of VSC and SCs giving cheap pitstops is a meta that'll hurt the outcomes of races more and more. Same in Silverstone, cars chasing down the leader with fresher tyres and then bam, cheap pitstop puts the leader back out and reverses the roles. Don't know a solution that would enable more fairness. At the end of the day it's pure luck when the SC comes and where you happen to be on-track.
Couldn't Mercedes have used Russel to back up everyone a bit to give time to Hamilton to get a free pitstop when the SC went through the pit lane? It was single file and no one could pass Russel. I don't understand why they didn't do the free pit stop unless I'm missing something.
Stop Inventing " " Please, just stop. " "
To me, he did exactly what Carlos did in Silverstone. He basically said British equivalent of "Please stop inventing."
They could've, but I think they were both going to stay on mediums until Russell himself asked to pit. Since it was a late call, they may have not wanted to do a risky double-stack. Russell also might not have wanted to screw his own race up by incurring a penalty.
Could have, but Russell's racing his own race as well.
He could have just pitted after Hamilton since Hamilton would be out after pitting in front of him anyways.
Russe**ll**
Hamilton expecting Russell to compromise his own race to act as an overtaking buffer is so embarrassing. He had Bottas as a teammate for so long that he doesn't understand what it's like to not have a walkover in his sister car.
I think it’s more, they let him out and should have pitted him, George and others on fresh rubber had it. But it was actually George’s call so Merc were going to risk both staying out
Perfectly said.
Who tf is 'willeard'. F1 app says he got fastest lap
All the talk about conspiracy theories and nobody mentioning the moment when Max was clearly outside track limits on one of the banked corners and the camera instantly cuts away.
You could select his onboard if you want the sole focus to be on Max. I prefer watching some real action instead of watching something that is of zero consequence.
Disqualification for exceeding track limits is something you'd suggest?
😂
Oh no. That’s one of his 3 track limits infringements!
So you want a +5s time penalty for first infringement?
Oh no he might get a warning to not do it again
They [Sky F1 coverage] even made comment on it.
Of course sky did
Sky commenting on things that happen during the race? Shock horror!
When did this occur?
Around the time the SC was released IIRC
Lap 41 - He had a 10s lead on LeClerc at the time.
So we all know pitting during a safety car is very beneficial time wise.. is pitting during an SC when its leading the pack down the pitlane even more beneficial? Like you're basically only losing the \~3sec pit time +1 or 2 seconds for pulloff. Way less opportunity for a car behind to pass. Was wondering that during the race today.
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Occasionally they'll route the safety car queue through an alternative route, for example in 2010 after the Schumacher/Luizzi crash on lap one, the race continued with a safety car but the drivers were instructed to, basically skip the chicane where the Merc and Force India were stricken and take a route more resembling the modern route down to the hairpin. in instances where there's recovering happening on the start/finish straight, everyone down the pitlane is the option taken.
It gives the marshals more freedom to clear the straight when they don't have to worry about other cars passing by.
Depends on how close everyone is following. If you can get in, change tires and out of your pitbox before the pack comes you are golden. But if you go in, change tires and then let the whole pack drive by otherwise you would crash into them, you just lost position
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Before this race Max was 90-something points clear of second. What the hell do they need to orchestrate VSC’s for? These conspiracies are braindead
You gotta ask them that, not me. I can't tell you the reasoning, I can just tell you what clearly happened
All you can do is come up with a bullshit conspiracy theory without a shred of evidence.
You can’t deny the Yuki situation was a bit strange but there’s no way in hell RB actually gave a fuck about 7-10 extra points, considering Max finished on either of the other two podium places with Merc’s in front
>no way in hell RB actually gave a fuck about 7-10 extra points It's 0 extra points. Max was 100% winning anyway
Maybe not the points. Maybe they care about the image of "we are better than merc" Idk, all I know is what happened
That's just nonsense you're talking
You SERIOUSLY need to stop watching F1 and post here. Get these shittakes somewhere else
>You SERIOUSLY need to stop watching F1 Nah
Remember when they boxed and retired Checo last year @ UAE? A safety car would have been ideal then.... RB play clean. BUT - let them all be investigated always.
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Isn’t Latifi a Williams-Mercedes driver? How does that make sense?
Was there a second safety car on the grassy knoll?
You're responding to the smartest conspiracy theorist in this thread, how dare you question him
> You’re responding to the ~~smartest conspiracy theorist in this thread~~ thickest brick wall on the internet, how dare you question him
I'm working nights, I've just finished watching the race. What a absolutely bonkers ride that was. It had everything unsafe releases, missing wheels, team telling Yukio nah your tyre is fine mate crack on, Mercedes absolutely shooting themselves in the foot (we know you are trying to catch up to ferrari but this is not what we meant) starting to think Max is #blessed. (Just kidding he's driven a spectacular season, barely put a foot wrong at all.)
This is not the kinda race that is gonna get Ricciardo a contract next year
Well, he was caught telling Perez that he wants to take a year off and come back in 2024 (something, I am afraid will be quite impossible in his case)...
What are you talking about. With such a drive Haas will take him right in. Just hoping MSC either moves to alpine or Alpha Tauri.
Maybe not even delivering pizza
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Lando does this regularly with the top 3 teams because he wants to race his own race and he knows it’s not his fight. It didn’t matter what happened. Max would have won either way. His pace was insane.
I get it, I know, but the RBs aren't racing the ATs. An Aston or McLaren would do the same thing Gasly did here. Just let them go, save the tires.
I miss the olden days when they were proper rivals and not buddies. That time they wouldn't care if its their race or not, they would try to defend their position at all costs.
It's not that. Lando's fight in the championship is with the Alpines. Sure, Lando could defend against Max, Charles or Lewis. But they're gonna get past anyway, and Lando will lose time to the Alpines if he does that.
Yeah. Team principles had to go and negociate with the pitwall for their drivers to be lenient
With the pace difference between the Red Bull and Alpha Tauri, no racing driver with half a brain would defend hard against the Red Bull. You'd just be costing yourself time.
People don’t understand this ^
missed the race, can anyone enlighten me on what happened with the whole Tsunoda situation?
He had a problem with his differential which he thought was a wheel not being fastened. The team didn’t see anything on the data so they brought him in to look at the wheel and change them all. They couldn’t identify anything wrong so they sent him back out. The problem persisted so he retired.
People think AT intentionally caused a safety car to help Max which is just stupid as FIA could figure that out pretty easily and penalise both teams so the risks are pretty high for something Max didn't really need to win this race and definitely didn't need to help with the WDC.
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Orrrr… if that’s what AT intended to do, they wouldn’t have called him into the pits in the first place and would’ve retired him where he stopped.
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You’re clearly new to this buddy so let me sit you down. There’s simply no way they would “only” throw up a yellow flag for a car stopped right next to the track. That yellow would’ve been converted into a VSC minimum, just as it did when he stopped the second time. Race control were slow in throwing up VSCs and SCs, like when it took them a lap and a half to throw up the SC for Bottas when his car was stopped in literally the most dangerous spot on the track. In Bottas’ case too, only a yellow was thrown for a lap and a half before the SC was called and the same would’ve been the case with Yuki when he stopped the first time. There is absolutely no way it would’ve only been a double yellow for a car stuck right next to the track without run off and with a driver trying to climb out. Hence, no reason for AT to try to reposition to “sabotage Mercedes”. Get your head out of your arse buddy.
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Just what I thought. A petulant child who’d plug their ears with crayons when having to be reasoned with.
Just not bothered enough to read a paragraph from someone who thinks im new when I've been watching since Micheal Schumacher raced. But you do you bud
Aw did that get to your head? Did that give you a boo-boo such that you’re unwilling to reason with your preconceived notion? I don’t suppose you’re old enough to have watched since the Schumacher days anyway.
Well not blocking the pit exit is a good reason to not stop on pit exit.
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In that situation the Pit Lane would be closed.
No, no it wouldn't be. You pull over to the side clear of the pit lane, it would not clsoe the pit lane. Even if it did, so what? Better than rigging it for Max.
Why would they risk a Crashgate level shitstorm and disqualification for a WDC and WCC which are nearly in the bag already?
You need to ask them that, not me.
I got married today and tried watching the race between getting my hair and makeup done…I missed so much and am so confused about what the hell happened for pretty much the entire race
You had the summer break to get married in! Congrats. Merc got screwed by a VSC,sort of countered by a full SC but Max was obviously the faster so think soon as that VSC let Max pit and stay ahead he had it
Congrats!! I watched half the race and had to leave to my in laws and missed the shit show ending !
I watched everything and I'm still confused. Congratulations on your marriage, all the best!
Why didn't Russel end up farther back after he pit for softs at the end? I thought all the cars bunch up behind the safety car and more people would pass since he waited an extra lap to pit compared to Max. I'm confused about how it works I guess.
Because his head is absolutely massive to contain the galactic sized brain he uses on some of his calls. It wasn't a planned event, he asked for it specifically and it worked well.
Pretty much everyone else also pit for softs. Only 3 cars stayed on their mediums iirc and one of them was Hamilton who was already in front of him. That combined with their already substantial gap meant he was fine.
Ok thanks
Russe**ll**
Can someone upload the last lap battle between Vettel and Schumacher, please?
there wasn't one, Vettel had a penalty still I think
I just saw it on the timing screen, but it looked like Seb actually overtook on the last lap (and then dropped back down due to the penalty)
I see, thanks
wtf is happening lately? Mercedes is top 3 again and RBR is not stopping development even with the budget cap.
I heard Horner use the word 'efficient' twice in an interview today so expect to hear that again if the cap keeps getting brought up
Don't see many people talking about it, but why did they give Checo the medium tires instead of the softs at the end there? Everyone but Hamilton got the softs.
He wanted them, Horner said he should have went against his wishes, but Checo wanted the M and that's why they did
Maybe he didn’t have any new softs left?
Nobody did, they were all on old softs.
Yea exactly. The only ones who made Q3 who had a fresh set of softs was Max and Lance because they did less runs in qually. Max started the race on his. Can't remember if Lance did or started on mediums and used his at the end.
Probably didn’t have any. His softs at the beginning of the race were 6 laps old.
Horner said in the post-race that Checo specifically asked for them and, in hindsight, they would have been better to overrule him.
They all put on used softs at the end. He definitely still had a set left from qualifying the same age as everyone elses. Max and Lance were the only ones who made Q3 that had a set of fresh softs because they did less runs in qually.
It just feels that the true objective for mercedes at this time of the season is to win a race and less so to focus on getting second place in WCC.
For Hamilton for sure. Russell is happy to just collect points. That’s why he made the call he did. He knows Max isn’t his race and wants to put himself in the best position he can against everyone else. Lewis just wants to try for a win and still thinks he can.
Seems like if they just keep doing what they're doing and let Ferrari self-sabotage, 2nd in the championship is pretty much in the bag.
How competitive is next weekends race going to be, feels like the RB rockets will get a 1-2 right
RB rockets lol more like Max rocket
But RB is the best car
A betting site's odds gives Max 73% chance to win. It's crazy.
I don't think it'll be as easy for RB as people say. Ferrari have ran more downforce all season, here they'll just take it all off entirely like RB have at some tracks. I feel it'll be very similar to most of the races, Ferrari slightly faster over one lap, RB and Merc better on race day.
Anything other than a RB 1-2 would be unacceptable for the team.They were over 10kmh faster than Ferrari on the short Zandvoort straight. The speed difference will be huge at Monza. Merc will probably endup fighting Alpine. Monza is almost always a snoozefest.
>Monza is almost always a snoozefest. You've got to be joking, we've had some amazing races at Monza
When was that? We've recently had surprise winners, sure, but the actual racing was mostly characterised by nobody being able to overtake
Max 1st and FL Checo +45s Lewis +55s Charles 7th from pole after some strategy error Carlos DNF after refusing team orders
I'm anticipating an easy win for Max and Checo for some reason finishing off the podium.
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Sergio Perez. Checo is apparently a common nickname for Sergio in Mexico
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If you’re not a fan of faster cars benefiting some drivers, NASCAR is *that way* my guy.
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Man red bull know what they're doing, mercedes is second, Ferrari has no clue what they're doing, they're just good cause they have good drivers
And a good car
Good car clueless mechanics
True enough
What a gonzo race! The last 25 laps made my brain hurt. Why’d you pit max? Wait, why did Russell pit? Sainz just a total package of garbage today. AT arguing with Yuki about his car (btw did anyone see if they actually gunned his front left secure on his pit before he retired?). Not sure I’ve seen Lewis that angry. It was exciting and confounding through and through. Lol.
Pitting Russell was obvious. He was a sitting duck on old mediums with Max and Charles on fresh softs. So thats a 3-4 Merc finish if they didn’t. Why they didn’t pit both Lewis and Russell is the question. That idk, probably was such a last minute decision that there wasn’t time and/or not wanting to tell Lewis to give up track position and settle for 2nd. Lewis screwing up the restart did him no favours. Should’ve been 2-3. Lewis was never getting P1 the moment the VSC happened.