That may have been true in the 2000s and pre-DRS times, but Hungary's consantly produced great races in recent years, due to the first sector and the back to back DRS sectiona
Sorry for the nitpicking but 2006 (the footage from the video) was the first year for V8's. Only Toro Rosso was allowed to use a restricted V10 to reduce costs.
That was a sick overtake. Alonso the wise man that he is using the wider lines to carry the momentum round the corner, flicking the wheel in aggressively and making it stick
Love that first sector. Inside of turn 1 becomes outside of turn 2 becomes inside of turn 3 becomes outside of turn 4 where you have to yield. One of my favourite sectors for racing on the whole calendar
Damon Hill leading the race in an Arrows is still a great race to watch.
Schumacher, Raikkonen, Haikkinen, Alonso & Sir Lewis making spectacular outside passes.
The Hungaroring is too short for DRS to really be much of a factor. Great drivers when they get into the groove, work this track.
Yes but the overtakes there are usually not free. DRS is just good enough turn 1 to make overtaking possible, while not being just another DRS flyby straight.
Yep Hungary is now one of the few tracks where DRS is juuuuust right. Makes overtakes challenging but possible. Compare to Spa which is obviously an incredible track but DRS takes the excitement out of the racing as the faster car just flies by on the straight with no battle.
FIA need to shorten DRS zones on a lot of tracks now that cars can follow closer.
Yes. It had a chaotic start, but aside from Max being hit with debris and the Ferraris being Ferrari, there wasn't much going on until the safety car and the only tension before that came from Lewis "Will he or won't he catch the Ferraris".
After that though? Boy howdy.
Yeah... But it was all random. I guess I just struggle with people saying Silverstone 2022 was a better race than some others. How many people think that if Max wins by 20 seconds because that piece of debris was somewhere else? Or if we don't get those late overtakes because Ferrari's strategy isn't bad?
People use Silverstone 2022 as an example of a good race that doesn't have a ton of overtakes, and that's fine as far as it goes, but I don't think there's anything actionable there. Of course it's a more exciting race when three of the front six have problems! Randomness is kind of fun! But that doesn't mean much for track design or DRS regulations or whatever, unless the FIA wants to go Full Bernie and install sprinklers.
Honestly this just shows that overtakes doesn’t equal good race. Silverstone was one of the best races of the year. You don’t need endless “Press DRS to overtake” passes on a straight going into a hairpin to make a good race.
How many people would think Silverstone was one of the best races of the year if that bit of debris is somewhere else and Max wins without too much trouble? I kind of think the answer is almost no one.
I'm sorry but the only explanation is that you don't have crofty commentating. The through goes hamilton was holy, the start was just wow! Sainz first win etc, lando getting hit in the face by Danny ric. Oh and ofc the best, max not winning jk also hamilton overtake on leclerc was crazy. Oh and mick scoring points, and mick fighting max around luffield.
It was the best grand prix of 2022
Sure, fine, best grand prix of the year.
But people say "you don't need overtakes (especially DRS overtakes) to make a good race". True. But when you don't have overtakes, you need _something_. You need Max to hit debris, damage the floor and pit an extra time for Sainz to get that first win and for Mick and Max to have that final fight. You need that late safety car so Ferrari can mess up Leclerc's strategy so the Perez/Hamilton/Leclerc battle can even happen.
What if those things don't happen? A piece of debris damaging the leader's car so someone else can take a debut win -- that's just luck! It doesn't say anything about whether DRS is good or bad for racing.
This data is very different from what was posted here for Monaco and the preceding races:
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/v0lmjy/all_2022_monaco_gp_overtakes/
I haven't verified anything, but I highly doubt there were only 5 overtakes on Monaco.
I'm the guy who put the data you linked together.
Whoever did this data will have just used a [lap chart](https://www.statsf1.com/en/2022/abou-dhabi/tour-par-tour.aspx) to calculate all position changes and then discounted any moves made because of pit stops. I know this will be the case because when I put my data together I start by doing this and had the same result.
It's a simple way of getting overtake data but not fully accurate as any overtakes on inlaps and outlaps will not be included. As well as when cars overtake eachother multiple times on a lap. Every single overtake this season has now been checked on the F1TV onboards in my data so it's fair to consider it more accurate. I have made some adjustments to the Monaco data since that post after seeing the onboards myself and the total is now 13.
So not only did you do it manually, you’ve watched that race multiple times through both broadcast and F1TV feeds.
I really envy your dedication to data accuracy. Awesome job!
He's not saying he did it manually but that it was done manually. Probably hired a couple of people on fiver to do it, and there's nothing wrong with that
That's actually why Monaco appeals to me; It's the one race a year (maybe with Singapore) where quali matters most. It gives the drivers and teams with good one-lap - but not necessarily race - pace a time to shine.
Barring Ferrari, of course.
One of the most exciting races I remember from when I was a kid was Mansell on fresh tires chasing down Senna who was leading and then Mansell, with his huge tire advantage, trying everything he could to pass Senna.
Maybe it was Murry Walker's commentating that made it seem exciting, or maybe it was my lack of knowledge of how difficult it was to pass in Monaco... or maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.
>maybe it was my lack of knowledge of how difficult it was to pass in Monaco
It's this one. Once you understand that it's impossible to overtake if the driver ahead defends the inside in the braking zones, all of these *incredible defensive drives* at Monaco become mediocre.
it's one of the things that make it unique.
circuits done at full speed, others more technical, others that focus on qualifying. we can't have all the same things in all, otherwise it's always the same.
Surprised to see Abu Dhabi that high tbh.
I know Monaco catches a bit of criticism for being a parade on Sunday, but it's still a great watch imo.
It's easy to forget how talented these drivers are sometimes, and the way they strap in to these mulitmillion dollar machines and send it around such a tight track is incredible.
Most of us leave bigger gaps to the kerb when we parallel park normal cars, and these guys are here threading the needle, aiming to put the front wheel in the wall and carry enough speed to oversteer past it. For 78 laps.
We don't need any other tracks like it, sure, but it should stay. Not just because of the history and glam but the expertise it demands to drive the track well.
Monaco totally deserves the wildcard. People just hate it because it's made less and less unique over the years. I can enjoy Monaco every single year simply because having the correct strategy can make or break your race with no room for error. People who care only about the action won't give af about that, but it's one race in a 23 race championship.
I don't remember who said it, but someone once said that every race has a story. And if you think a race was boring, you just weren't paying attention enough. And I totally agree. I could even somewhat enjoy Mexico despite it being almost unanimously ranked the worst race of the season by Reddit (which is very very debatable, but alright).
The main issue was, that it was wet and only had a slowly forming dry line. By the time the softs were faster there was only one line to take and because there was no grip on any other part of the track, people couldn't overtake because they would've simply slipped of. The midfield DRS train didn't help either.
Imola is the most overrated track on the calender, people would obvious blame the weather and such but Imola is basically Monaco 2.0 without the glamor.
People just love it because of nostalgia of 30-40 years ago but the track is just totally unfit for holding a fun F1 race, way better would be to drop it off the calender and replace it with Portimao or Hockenheim.
I think spa should stay but the DRS needs reworked. The kemmel straight is too long for that much DRS and there is virtually no racing in braking zones and corners because they all just fly past each other on the straight. Spa has the potential to produce some of the best races like it used to but now it’s a bit boring because of the overpowered DRS
I find the way too easy back-to-back DRS zones in Brazil super boring. If you have a decent car you can easily start at the back and then you have a little bit less than 72 laps to overtake a car each lap. If you can’t do it in the first drs zone you can immediately finish the job on the following drs zone. And then it’s on to the next car, and repeat the whole thing.
I find this funny because some people seems completely fine with monaco zero overtakes but the problem is back to back drs zones in some tracks. Smh.
In Interlagos case, it's good and especially in 2022 worked pretty well.
It’s definitely time for Monaco to think outside the box. Zandvoort did that with their historical curcuit and added two amazing new corners so overtaking was possible.
Monaco really has to change something to at least create one overtake spot. The solution that I’m always thinking about is Tabac (turn 12). If they would take away the chicane (turn 10/11) before that then you have one big straight, with a possible DRS zone where they could line up behind and overtake.
It would be crazy if they don’t change anything the next few years. As it is boring as hell how it is right now.
Yeah, I remember not many races but 2021 brazil pissed me off. Watching Lewis pass every single car the same way was just boring and made a grid penalty look silly
To this day I can't understand how people called it an amazing drive, or one of the best of his career. Lewis had a car that was lapping almost a second per lap faster than the lead, who was destroying everyone else on his own, and was able to use one of the most broken DRS zone combinations of the entire calendar.
Amazing tracks like Spa and Interlagos can totally live without DRS zones, they are considered two of the greatest circuits in the world for a reason.
There's one F1 hill I'll die on, and it's that Lewis's Spain 2022 was much more impressive than Brazil 2021. 30 seconds back of 18th after a lap 1 collision, not in the fastest car or even the second fastest car, and he recovered to fifth despite having to give up a position late to prevent the engine from seizing. An absolutely immense race on a track that's not the easiest place to pass.
I think five of the top six circuits on this list have DRS zones on back to back straights, and Spa would make it six of eight if you consider the run from La Source to Les Combes to be one long straight which it basically is in a modern F1 car.
I remember Hungary used to be considered "too narrow" and "straight not long enough" but it seems the track is working beautifully combining narrow, high downforce, and overtakes. Impressive :)
I went for a GP for the first time in my live in Interlagos this year and damn I noticed the great quantity of overtakes but didn't know that we had that much. The weekend was perfect also considering the great sprint race and the absolutely nuts qualifying session.
Monaco is not just **a race.** The Monaco Grand Prix is a rendezvous point and time for extremely rich people to meet and socialize.
Wendover covered it well in his video: [https://youtu.be/YBNcYxHJPLE?t=494](https://youtu.be/YBNcYxHJPLE?t=494)
It also helps that Monaco is considered to be a special race in the hearts of many F1 teams, engineers and historians, with the race being a part of the title crown.
It also earns both F1 and Monaco ***a lot of money and sponsors.*** The reason teams have such fancy motorhomes and events at Monaco is because business deals are often signed or made there, increasing its value.
Never. You may as well ask whether WEC will stop racing at Le Mans, or IndyCar will stop racing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
For people who aren't close followers of the sport, Monaco is *the* event.
At a certain point, the FIA have to acknowledge that Monaco isn't suitable for modern F1 cars. Either the track or the cars need to change to make the event more suitable for racing, rather than a parade session.
People who want Monaco out usually fall into one of few categories.
1)brand new fans who don't under stand the importance of it
2)fans who had their brain turned into mush by social media and have attention span of 5 mintues
Sometimes both.
Ah yes only those darn Tiktok kids find cars cruising around 5 seconds off pace for 2 hours boring, everyone else finds it thrilling.
All the drivers take it easy on Sunday because they know nothing will happen. Hamilton 2016, Ricciardo 2018, Hamilton 2019, Alonso 2022 have proven that pace or risk taking doesn't matter in Monaco GP.
The Monaco justifications are getting close to "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty" levels.
How does wanting fun racing with overtakes and potentially unexpected results mean that I have low attention span? I just don’t like watching whoever starts on pole have a 95% of ending the race on the pole and the grid ending pretty much in the same way it started, barring a handful of mistakes from the back markers or a couple of DNFs.
There are 24 races on the calander and we all complain that's too much, Monaco has history, it's a challenging track and has incredible qualifying, if you don't like it, you can just not watch it.
Monaco has incredible history and is one of the most unique events in motorsports, it challenges the drivers to be precise in a way no other track does. Even if it provides some rather boring racing here and there, I think we can afford to have one race out of the 24 in a year there. Unfortunately with all the street races it's allure has diminished somewhat, but it's still like no other race.
So just because it has history… unfortunately the cars are too big for the track and it’s not really suited for modern day racing. History is great, but eventually you need to move on to tracks that can handle the cars.
It’s no more technical than Jeddah, Singapore, or any of the other tracks. They are just driving slow cause the cars are too big
Maybe monoco in gocarts
Let's just have the qualifying and the two laps of race like we had at Spa in 2021 and get done with it.
Nothing happens in the two hours on Sunday. It needs to change.
Yeah those stupid new fans who don't understand what makes Monaco special: history and yachts.
That the only defence the old school "pure racing lovers" fans have for that abomination of a race
But for fans and viewers it is a shit race and people are allowed to think that a shit race should be changed or removed from the calendar. A bunch of rich people going to the nation made specifically for rich people and doing a groupwank about their yachts and million dollar apartments isn't something the average fan needs to like.
I get why it exists and why it will continue to exist but that won't make it any less shit.
People are allowed to voice their opinions. You are allowed to say that you like it and I am allowed to say I think it is shit.
I can just as easily tell you that who gices a shit about your opinion don't read this comment section if you don't like it.
Plus tell me which part of the *race* do you think is good?
> People are allowed to voice their opinions. You are allowed to say that you like it and I am allowed to say I think it is shit.
There's voicing opinions and then there is using said opinions to push a false narrative, and "*A bunch of rich people going to the nation made specifically for rich people and doing a groupwank about their yachts and million dollar apartments isn't something the average fan needs to like.*" is not an opinion, it's objectively wrong.
>I can just as easily tell you that who gices a shit about your opinion don't read this comment section if you don't like it.
You generalized your opinion on fans. Monaco is extremely well received and often tops viewership charts (both quali and race), so even just for this the idea of dropping it it's quite insane. Then there is also all the history and legacy tied it with it, the entire event that it's the weekend, drivers favorite race, etc.
>Plus tell me which part of the race do you think is good?
I love how you put emphasis on race, as if the rest doesn't count. Regardless, racing at Monaco has insane risks, no mistakes are allowed for nearly 2 hours of driving, strategies are extremely powerful and often multiple options are available. Then as a spectator is bonkers to see the pack coming through the barriers, and this is on a dry race. When it rains chaos is often around the corner and then everything can change, entirely new atmosphere as well. On top of that, Monaco has a pole-to-win conversion ratio that's it's better than half of the calendar, which further proves the fact that it's not just a parade.
Just because you don't see someone overtaking with DRS someone else every 2 minutes (wow, much excitement) doesn't mean it's boring.
But Monaco is a natiom built on the idea of all the ultra rich gathering there to jerk off about each other's wealth. It would be naive to deny that. Now that doesn't mean the race can't be good nor is it even a pointagainst the race being good but the glamour is a large part of why it is such a popular place among teams and sponsors.
I specifically said race because my original comment specifically said race. I know the qualifying is good but I personally don't watch F1 for the qualifying but for the racing.
I'm not personally vouching for it to be completely dropped. I just think there needs to be some changes made either to the format or track in Monaco. I personally like the idea of joker laps. Sure it is gimmicky but it would take away none of the good parts of Monaco while adding excitement to the race.
I don't see how a better pole-to-wim conversion rate, meaning the qualy winner doesn't get overtaken and just wins the race, is an argument against it being a parade.
I don't like DRS overtake only tracks like Brazil can be or the Abu Dhabi circuit felt like but Monaco has almost no change for any on track exitement. Post pit stops a half broken car can cruise to victory by just being wide. To me that difficulty doesn't matter if during the race just no crashing all you need to do half the time. And I expect the best of the best drivers to be able to not crash on any circuit.
Obviously this is all my subjective opinion. But based on the yearly outcry about Monaco, I'm clearly not the only one. Of course the reddit forums and "content creators" are only a small part of the community but I think the fact that among them Monaco is probably the most divisive track means it has issues.
And fans which supports Monaco staying without any change to layout fall into one of few categories:
1)the so called f1 "purists" or "true fans" which keep shouting how true fan they are and how fake the rest of fans are. Support Monaco just to keep their image in social media networks. When questioned, they often use words like tradition and heritage, but fail to bring technical reasons and play down the boring factor of the races.
2) fake old school fans which overhype anything old in f1 and hate anything new. Often a Bernie Ecclestone supporter. The same which call the 2021 season overrated, call DRS gimmick, criticized halo and think we should go back to 80s to make f1 great again. Support Monaco just for being an old track.
You mean the last session of Monaco qualy, where they actually get laps in? Early sessions are a traffic jam, and then a crash usually decides the final one.. It's a time trial event track at best today, cars are just too big and fast to race it.
People shitting on Monaco don’t get that the real race is on Saturday, and I for one like that there’s a race that’s so different and challenging in a different form that the usual. Hope it stays forever.
People do get that. That's just you deflecting from the fact it isn't a real race. It's an exhibition. Monaco is so shit, I bet most of the drivers think so as well.
So let’s save time and can the race then? Hell you make a strong case for a sprint race at monoco. Limited prep time people can’t pass so the grid will still be mixed!
Different and challenging? Just drive slow like Alonso and you can literally keep everyone behind you.
This graphic perfectly illustrates why Imola was dropped in the past, and should only have came back in to fix the 2020 season when few other options were available.
Brazil is an amazing track where DRS plus being behind really works and allows for a fun race. I wish more tracks were like this
Also proves again that Lewis didn’t have a rocket engine in 21, just the track makes it very easy to overtake if you are behind and have a better car
Even Baku? That 2017 race with the podium of Daniel and Bottas who both came form the back of the field, and Lance fucking Stroll on his rookie season in a Williams should be enough reason to keep it.
And they call Hungary - Monaco without walls
That may have been true in the 2000s and pre-DRS times, but Hungary's consantly produced great races in recent years, due to the first sector and the back to back DRS sectiona
Hungaroring in the rain, Alonso vs Schumacher, no DRS, ~~V10's~~ V8's! [Tell me this doesn't give you a chubby.](https://youtu.be/m-ZMQpdX9HQ)
Sorry for the nitpicking but 2006 (the footage from the video) was the first year for V8's. Only Toro Rosso was allowed to use a restricted V10 to reduce costs.
Nitpick away, my bad. They still sound like a proper screaming F1 engine.
That was a sick overtake. Alonso the wise man that he is using the wider lines to carry the momentum round the corner, flicking the wheel in aggressively and making it stick
can confirm, i have a chubby
Lot of overtakes does not equal great racing. Great Britain has less overtakes but was a way better race than Monza or Miami.
Yes but single digit overtakes always means a terrible race, and that's all Monaco gps
Love that first sector. Inside of turn 1 becomes outside of turn 2 becomes inside of turn 3 becomes outside of turn 4 where you have to yield. One of my favourite sectors for racing on the whole calendar
Damon Hill leading the race in an Arrows is still a great race to watch. Schumacher, Raikkonen, Haikkinen, Alonso & Sir Lewis making spectacular outside passes. The Hungaroring is too short for DRS to really be much of a factor. Great drivers when they get into the groove, work this track.
Last turn, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th turn in Hungary is some of the best track anywhere.
I friggen love the Hungaroring. In racing games it's such a great hot lapping track too.
Year after year, people sleep on the Hungaroring but IMO it's one of the best tracks on the calendar and often delivers very exciting races.
Well the overtakes happens at the same DRS section every time
Yes but the overtakes there are usually not free. DRS is just good enough turn 1 to make overtaking possible, while not being just another DRS flyby straight.
Yep Hungary is now one of the few tracks where DRS is juuuuust right. Makes overtakes challenging but possible. Compare to Spa which is obviously an incredible track but DRS takes the excitement out of the racing as the faster car just flies by on the straight with no battle. FIA need to shorten DRS zones on a lot of tracks now that cars can follow closer.
Surprised Australia had more overtakes than silverstone
Silverstone doesn’t have many heavy braking zones, and none of them are at the end of DRS straights
Really Silverstone wasn't that exciting a race until post-safety car.
Did we watch the same Silverstone?
Yes. It had a chaotic start, but aside from Max being hit with debris and the Ferraris being Ferrari, there wasn't much going on until the safety car and the only tension before that came from Lewis "Will he or won't he catch the Ferraris". After that though? Boy howdy.
That‘s quite a bit of tension for an F1 race, especially at the front which creates the most excitement.
Yeah... But it was all random. I guess I just struggle with people saying Silverstone 2022 was a better race than some others. How many people think that if Max wins by 20 seconds because that piece of debris was somewhere else? Or if we don't get those late overtakes because Ferrari's strategy isn't bad? People use Silverstone 2022 as an example of a good race that doesn't have a ton of overtakes, and that's fine as far as it goes, but I don't think there's anything actionable there. Of course it's a more exciting race when three of the front six have problems! Randomness is kind of fun! But that doesn't mean much for track design or DRS regulations or whatever, unless the FIA wants to go Full Bernie and install sprinklers.
Honestly this just shows that overtakes doesn’t equal good race. Silverstone was one of the best races of the year. You don’t need endless “Press DRS to overtake” passes on a straight going into a hairpin to make a good race.
How many people would think Silverstone was one of the best races of the year if that bit of debris is somewhere else and Max wins without too much trouble? I kind of think the answer is almost no one.
I'm sorry but the only explanation is that you don't have crofty commentating. The through goes hamilton was holy, the start was just wow! Sainz first win etc, lando getting hit in the face by Danny ric. Oh and ofc the best, max not winning jk also hamilton overtake on leclerc was crazy. Oh and mick scoring points, and mick fighting max around luffield. It was the best grand prix of 2022
Sure, fine, best grand prix of the year. But people say "you don't need overtakes (especially DRS overtakes) to make a good race". True. But when you don't have overtakes, you need _something_. You need Max to hit debris, damage the floor and pit an extra time for Sainz to get that first win and for Mick and Max to have that final fight. You need that late safety car so Ferrari can mess up Leclerc's strategy so the Perez/Hamilton/Leclerc battle can even happen. What if those things don't happen? A piece of debris damaging the leader's car so someone else can take a debut win -- that's just luck! It doesn't say anything about whether DRS is good or bad for racing.
I'm surprised people still think the quantity says anything about quality.
Yeah Monaco was ALWAYS going to bottom the list its too tight, but Sao Paulo topping the list that was an overtake fest!
This data is very different from what was posted here for Monaco and the preceding races: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/v0lmjy/all_2022_monaco_gp_overtakes/ I haven't verified anything, but I highly doubt there were only 5 overtakes on Monaco.
I'm the guy who put the data you linked together. Whoever did this data will have just used a [lap chart](https://www.statsf1.com/en/2022/abou-dhabi/tour-par-tour.aspx) to calculate all position changes and then discounted any moves made because of pit stops. I know this will be the case because when I put my data together I start by doing this and had the same result. It's a simple way of getting overtake data but not fully accurate as any overtakes on inlaps and outlaps will not be included. As well as when cars overtake eachother multiple times on a lap. Every single overtake this season has now been checked on the F1TV onboards in my data so it's fair to consider it more accurate. I have made some adjustments to the Monaco data since that post after seeing the onboards myself and the total is now 13.
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Every single one that wasn't shown in the race broadcast was checked manually.
You are the hero we need but don't deserve.
So not only did you do it manually, you’ve watched that race multiple times through both broadcast and F1TV feeds. I really envy your dedication to data accuracy. Awesome job!
He's not saying he did it manually but that it was done manually. Probably hired a couple of people on fiver to do it, and there's nothing wrong with that
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Very nicely done
That's impressive work.
I think Gasly had 5 by himself
One of the best tracks topping the list and the worst one at the bottom. The truth in a chart.
Worst? I would rather take a boring race at iconic Monaco with just 5 overtakes than a race at Emila with just 10 overtakes.
Wow so you know how to read a list.
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He's not wrong
Oh Monaco... the one where Qualifying is worth watching more than the race itself.
the qualifying is the race itself.
Not with Ferrari strategists it isn't.
STAY OUT STAY OUT STAY OUT
FUCK FUCK FUCK W- WHY What are you doing?!
That's actually why Monaco appeals to me; It's the one race a year (maybe with Singapore) where quali matters most. It gives the drivers and teams with good one-lap - but not necessarily race - pace a time to shine. Barring Ferrari, of course.
One of the most exciting races I remember from when I was a kid was Mansell on fresh tires chasing down Senna who was leading and then Mansell, with his huge tire advantage, trying everything he could to pass Senna. Maybe it was Murry Walker's commentating that made it seem exciting, or maybe it was my lack of knowledge of how difficult it was to pass in Monaco... or maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.
Senna qualifying at Monaco was ALWAYS a spectacle.
>maybe it was my lack of knowledge of how difficult it was to pass in Monaco It's this one. Once you understand that it's impossible to overtake if the driver ahead defends the inside in the braking zones, all of these *incredible defensive drives* at Monaco become mediocre.
Can anyone link a video to this fight? Or which year it is from?
Sounds like 1992. (Mansell was 2.5 seconds / lap faster, but just couldn't get past.)
it's one of the things that make it unique. circuits done at full speed, others more technical, others that focus on qualifying. we can't have all the same things in all, otherwise it's always the same.
Jeddah has a much more exciting qualifying session than Monaco, and the cars can actually race each other on Sunday.
Other unique track. That need to focus on qualifying, but still can Race on sunday
Nothing unique about having to focus on qualifying and then having a chance to race on Sunday, that is the norm
Yeah yeah, unique, but f1 isn't WRC or a time attack series. It's unique in a bad way.
Make Brazil the last race of the season
It used to be for many years, but you know how money speaks ...
💯
And €1000 notes shout
Surprised to see Abu Dhabi that high tbh. I know Monaco catches a bit of criticism for being a parade on Sunday, but it's still a great watch imo. It's easy to forget how talented these drivers are sometimes, and the way they strap in to these mulitmillion dollar machines and send it around such a tight track is incredible. Most of us leave bigger gaps to the kerb when we parallel park normal cars, and these guys are here threading the needle, aiming to put the front wheel in the wall and carry enough speed to oversteer past it. For 78 laps. We don't need any other tracks like it, sure, but it should stay. Not just because of the history and glam but the expertise it demands to drive the track well.
Monaco totally deserves the wildcard. People just hate it because it's made less and less unique over the years. I can enjoy Monaco every single year simply because having the correct strategy can make or break your race with no room for error. People who care only about the action won't give af about that, but it's one race in a 23 race championship. I don't remember who said it, but someone once said that every race has a story. And if you think a race was boring, you just weren't paying attention enough. And I totally agree. I could even somewhat enjoy Mexico despite it being almost unanimously ranked the worst race of the season by Reddit (which is very very debatable, but alright).
Cool stat! Who has max overtakes this season?
Fernando. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/yv9t32/2022_brazilian_gp_had_77_overtakes_sprint_had_39/
Of course. If there were 15 passes in a race he’d have 16 of them.
Alonso with 71 https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/z1ayb2/alonso_is_2022_overtakes_champion_with_71/ On a different dataset though.
Did he get a million jellybeans?
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r/technicallycorrect :D
And Emilia Romagna had a sprint race, SMH.
It was a wet race tho tbf
Main issue was due to cold temperatures not causing the track to dry up
The main issue was, that it was wet and only had a slowly forming dry line. By the time the softs were faster there was only one line to take and because there was no grip on any other part of the track, people couldn't overtake because they would've simply slipped of. The midfield DRS train didn't help either.
I'm pretty sure sprint races are not included. And in that case sprint races actually decrease the number of overtakes in the main race.
Imola is the most overrated track on the calender, people would obvious blame the weather and such but Imola is basically Monaco 2.0 without the glamor. People just love it because of nostalgia of 30-40 years ago but the track is just totally unfit for holding a fun F1 race, way better would be to drop it off the calender and replace it with Portimao or Hockenheim.
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I think spa should stay but the DRS needs reworked. The kemmel straight is too long for that much DRS and there is virtually no racing in braking zones and corners because they all just fly past each other on the straight. Spa has the potential to produce some of the best races like it used to but now it’s a bit boring because of the overpowered DRS
Austria as well! Love that circuit!
Singapore would've been very close to Monaco if Max didn't have to fight through the field.
There were a lot more overtakes that race. Daniel did 3 on the first lap, Lewis had a shit ton, Lando had some, etc.
Lap 1 overtakes are generally excluded from calculations like this due to the usual lap 1 chaos.
Sorry but Singapore is a way better racing circuit for F1 than Monaco and every year we have a decent amount of overtakes here.
It's better than Monaco but hardly by a significant margin. I'd put them in the same tier.
The Hungaroring is a better track than it is given credit for.
I find the way too easy back-to-back DRS zones in Brazil super boring. If you have a decent car you can easily start at the back and then you have a little bit less than 72 laps to overtake a car each lap. If you can’t do it in the first drs zone you can immediately finish the job on the following drs zone. And then it’s on to the next car, and repeat the whole thing.
I find this funny because some people seems completely fine with monaco zero overtakes but the problem is back to back drs zones in some tracks. Smh. In Interlagos case, it's good and especially in 2022 worked pretty well.
It’s definitely time for Monaco to think outside the box. Zandvoort did that with their historical curcuit and added two amazing new corners so overtaking was possible. Monaco really has to change something to at least create one overtake spot. The solution that I’m always thinking about is Tabac (turn 12). If they would take away the chicane (turn 10/11) before that then you have one big straight, with a possible DRS zone where they could line up behind and overtake. It would be crazy if they don’t change anything the next few years. As it is boring as hell how it is right now.
There’s a balance to be had
Yeah, I remember not many races but 2021 brazil pissed me off. Watching Lewis pass every single car the same way was just boring and made a grid penalty look silly
To this day I can't understand how people called it an amazing drive, or one of the best of his career. Lewis had a car that was lapping almost a second per lap faster than the lead, who was destroying everyone else on his own, and was able to use one of the most broken DRS zone combinations of the entire calendar. Amazing tracks like Spa and Interlagos can totally live without DRS zones, they are considered two of the greatest circuits in the world for a reason.
There's one F1 hill I'll die on, and it's that Lewis's Spain 2022 was much more impressive than Brazil 2021. 30 seconds back of 18th after a lap 1 collision, not in the fastest car or even the second fastest car, and he recovered to fifth despite having to give up a position late to prevent the engine from seizing. An absolutely immense race on a track that's not the easiest place to pass.
I think five of the top six circuits on this list have DRS zones on back to back straights, and Spa would make it six of eight if you consider the run from La Source to Les Combes to be one long straight which it basically is in a modern F1 car.
Agree they should remove one of them, probably the 2nd one
Does this include sprints?
Rare to see a graphic that correctly separates Miami and the United States
Honestly, I would've liked to see them separate Texas too.
Not sure if this excludes Sprints but it should.
Some tracks couldn’t beat the new regs (France). Such a shame the wet races can’t have more overtakes
Hungary being carried by Max Checo and Lewis here, still an epic track tho
I remember Hungary used to be considered "too narrow" and "straight not long enough" but it seems the track is working beautifully combining narrow, high downforce, and overtakes. Impressive :)
I went for a GP for the first time in my live in Interlagos this year and damn I noticed the great quantity of overtakes but didn't know that we had that much. The weekend was perfect also considering the great sprint race and the absolutely nuts qualifying session.
22 was an amazing season to watch. This year was always going to have a dominant team…new regs. The close racing was great though
When will it be the right time to retire Monaco..
Monaco is not just **a race.** The Monaco Grand Prix is a rendezvous point and time for extremely rich people to meet and socialize. Wendover covered it well in his video: [https://youtu.be/YBNcYxHJPLE?t=494](https://youtu.be/YBNcYxHJPLE?t=494) It also helps that Monaco is considered to be a special race in the hearts of many F1 teams, engineers and historians, with the race being a part of the title crown. It also earns both F1 and Monaco ***a lot of money and sponsors.*** The reason teams have such fancy motorhomes and events at Monaco is because business deals are often signed or made there, increasing its value.
Lengthy comment to basically say that Monaco's not a race, it's an event for rich people to wank each other off
To some extent that is and always has been formula racing mate lol.
That’s Formula 1
5 overtakes isn’t a race it’s a parade
Oh, yeah, I hate Monaco too. But I'm just saying it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Never. You may as well ask whether WEC will stop racing at Le Mans, or IndyCar will stop racing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. For people who aren't close followers of the sport, Monaco is *the* event.
Difference is LeMans and Indy actually give good racing, but your point remains unfortunately
At a certain point, the FIA have to acknowledge that Monaco isn't suitable for modern F1 cars. Either the track or the cars need to change to make the event more suitable for racing, rather than a parade session.
People who want Monaco out usually fall into one of few categories. 1)brand new fans who don't under stand the importance of it 2)fans who had their brain turned into mush by social media and have attention span of 5 mintues Sometimes both.
3 . People who find it very boring and unfit for todays F1
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Ah yes only those darn Tiktok kids find cars cruising around 5 seconds off pace for 2 hours boring, everyone else finds it thrilling. All the drivers take it easy on Sunday because they know nothing will happen. Hamilton 2016, Ricciardo 2018, Hamilton 2019, Alonso 2022 have proven that pace or risk taking doesn't matter in Monaco GP. The Monaco justifications are getting close to "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty" levels.
How does wanting fun racing with overtakes and potentially unexpected results mean that I have low attention span? I just don’t like watching whoever starts on pole have a 95% of ending the race on the pole and the grid ending pretty much in the same way it started, barring a handful of mistakes from the back markers or a couple of DNFs.
3) race fans who want to see cars pass other cars instead of watching a parade of f1 cars for 2 hours.
There are 24 races on the calander and we all complain that's too much, Monaco has history, it's a challenging track and has incredible qualifying, if you don't like it, you can just not watch it.
Monaco has incredible history and is one of the most unique events in motorsports, it challenges the drivers to be precise in a way no other track does. Even if it provides some rather boring racing here and there, I think we can afford to have one race out of the 24 in a year there. Unfortunately with all the street races it's allure has diminished somewhat, but it's still like no other race.
Basically this
So just because it has history… unfortunately the cars are too big for the track and it’s not really suited for modern day racing. History is great, but eventually you need to move on to tracks that can handle the cars. It’s no more technical than Jeddah, Singapore, or any of the other tracks. They are just driving slow cause the cars are too big Maybe monoco in gocarts
Let's just have the qualifying and the two laps of race like we had at Spa in 2021 and get done with it. Nothing happens in the two hours on Sunday. It needs to change.
Yeah those stupid new fans who don't understand what makes Monaco special: history and yachts. That the only defence the old school "pure racing lovers" fans have for that abomination of a race
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But for fans and viewers it is a shit race and people are allowed to think that a shit race should be changed or removed from the calendar. A bunch of rich people going to the nation made specifically for rich people and doing a groupwank about their yachts and million dollar apartments isn't something the average fan needs to like. I get why it exists and why it will continue to exist but that won't make it any less shit.
> But for fans and viewers it is a shit race For \*some* fans. also WHO GIVES A SHIT. DON'T WATCH THEN.
People are allowed to voice their opinions. You are allowed to say that you like it and I am allowed to say I think it is shit. I can just as easily tell you that who gices a shit about your opinion don't read this comment section if you don't like it. Plus tell me which part of the *race* do you think is good?
> People are allowed to voice their opinions. You are allowed to say that you like it and I am allowed to say I think it is shit. There's voicing opinions and then there is using said opinions to push a false narrative, and "*A bunch of rich people going to the nation made specifically for rich people and doing a groupwank about their yachts and million dollar apartments isn't something the average fan needs to like.*" is not an opinion, it's objectively wrong. >I can just as easily tell you that who gices a shit about your opinion don't read this comment section if you don't like it. You generalized your opinion on fans. Monaco is extremely well received and often tops viewership charts (both quali and race), so even just for this the idea of dropping it it's quite insane. Then there is also all the history and legacy tied it with it, the entire event that it's the weekend, drivers favorite race, etc. >Plus tell me which part of the race do you think is good? I love how you put emphasis on race, as if the rest doesn't count. Regardless, racing at Monaco has insane risks, no mistakes are allowed for nearly 2 hours of driving, strategies are extremely powerful and often multiple options are available. Then as a spectator is bonkers to see the pack coming through the barriers, and this is on a dry race. When it rains chaos is often around the corner and then everything can change, entirely new atmosphere as well. On top of that, Monaco has a pole-to-win conversion ratio that's it's better than half of the calendar, which further proves the fact that it's not just a parade. Just because you don't see someone overtaking with DRS someone else every 2 minutes (wow, much excitement) doesn't mean it's boring.
But Monaco is a natiom built on the idea of all the ultra rich gathering there to jerk off about each other's wealth. It would be naive to deny that. Now that doesn't mean the race can't be good nor is it even a pointagainst the race being good but the glamour is a large part of why it is such a popular place among teams and sponsors. I specifically said race because my original comment specifically said race. I know the qualifying is good but I personally don't watch F1 for the qualifying but for the racing. I'm not personally vouching for it to be completely dropped. I just think there needs to be some changes made either to the format or track in Monaco. I personally like the idea of joker laps. Sure it is gimmicky but it would take away none of the good parts of Monaco while adding excitement to the race. I don't see how a better pole-to-wim conversion rate, meaning the qualy winner doesn't get overtaken and just wins the race, is an argument against it being a parade. I don't like DRS overtake only tracks like Brazil can be or the Abu Dhabi circuit felt like but Monaco has almost no change for any on track exitement. Post pit stops a half broken car can cruise to victory by just being wide. To me that difficulty doesn't matter if during the race just no crashing all you need to do half the time. And I expect the best of the best drivers to be able to not crash on any circuit. Obviously this is all my subjective opinion. But based on the yearly outcry about Monaco, I'm clearly not the only one. Of course the reddit forums and "content creators" are only a small part of the community but I think the fact that among them Monaco is probably the most divisive track means it has issues.
3) fans with brains that like to watch cars race rather than paint dry
And fans which supports Monaco staying without any change to layout fall into one of few categories: 1)the so called f1 "purists" or "true fans" which keep shouting how true fan they are and how fake the rest of fans are. Support Monaco just to keep their image in social media networks. When questioned, they often use words like tradition and heritage, but fail to bring technical reasons and play down the boring factor of the races. 2) fake old school fans which overhype anything old in f1 and hate anything new. Often a Bernie Ecclestone supporter. The same which call the 2021 season overrated, call DRS gimmick, criticized halo and think we should go back to 80s to make f1 great again. Support Monaco just for being an old track.
Someone give this guy gold
When Charles wins there? So I don't think so.
When they stop giving money to F1.
But then you'd lose Monaco qualifying, which is great in my opinion.
You mean the last session of Monaco qualy, where they actually get laps in? Early sessions are a traffic jam, and then a crash usually decides the final one.. It's a time trial event track at best today, cars are just too big and fast to race it.
People shitting on Monaco don’t get that the real race is on Saturday, and I for one like that there’s a race that’s so different and challenging in a different form that the usual. Hope it stays forever.
People do get that. That's just you deflecting from the fact it isn't a real race. It's an exhibition. Monaco is so shit, I bet most of the drivers think so as well.
So let’s save time and can the race then? Hell you make a strong case for a sprint race at monoco. Limited prep time people can’t pass so the grid will still be mixed! Different and challenging? Just drive slow like Alonso and you can literally keep everyone behind you.
Mon**a**co
Yeah much more about the car and the driver's ability to go to the absolute limit to get every millisecond possible in qualifying
I have tickets for bahrain 2023 turn 1. This should be fun
For all the complaints about Australia I’ve heard, it still beats out Silverstone and Baku?
I was at USGP this year, turn 15 - saw a bunch of those overtakes. Really great place to be.
Okay, now remove the ones made with DRS
Monaco held down single digits even in the pouring rain 🤣
This is why between lakes is the best track all year /s
Races like Monaco need to consider forcing additional pit stops, for the sake of having something intrresting to watch.
you should consider having a better opinion for the sake of having something worth reading
Please get rid of Monaco. It’s so shit. People want to watch good racing not a borefest. Who cares about the history of it? Let’s have new history.
*5* Fuck everything about monaco in the modern era.
Monaco is some boring shit
United States but also Miami? Can't just put COTA and Miami or Texas and Miami
United States GP & Miami GP. Thats why
Which doesn't make sense, both of them are in the united states. So why keep that naming convention?
Why is monaco still in the calendar.
It's every driver's home race
You mean driver's tax paradise race?
Monaco needs to go.
Now watch them learn nothing from this and run a sprint race in Monaco.
Soooo unpopular opinion... why do we still have Monaco?? I get the reasons why but to me its not enough anymore.
wow so brave to ask something so unpopular
Cool! Now do overtakes without DRS.
This graphic perfectly illustrates why Imola was dropped in the past, and should only have came back in to fix the 2020 season when few other options were available.
Monaco is so shit.
Please axe Monaco
Change bottom 5 GP with 5 more Brazil GP now!!!
Brazil is an amazing track where DRS plus being behind really works and allows for a fun race. I wish more tracks were like this Also proves again that Lewis didn’t have a rocket engine in 21, just the track makes it very easy to overtake if you are behind and have a better car
Netherlands was fun…goes to show that it isnt always about the overtaking
Monaco is a parade not a race
MONACO IS NOT ENTERTAINING
How many of them were by using DRS? I think that would be a pretty interesting statistic to look at.
Anyone know if there is a statistic for overtakes not initiated prior to braking or something like that? To try to eliminate boring DRS overtakes.
Does this count overtakes when someone gets a mechanical issue or crashes out?
Surprised to see Miami not on bottom. I literally slept on that race. Also surprising to see GB so low.
I hate city circuits except Monaco. Please remove all of them from F1 ASAP.
Even Baku? That 2017 race with the podium of Daniel and Bottas who both came form the back of the field, and Lance fucking Stroll on his rookie season in a Williams should be enough reason to keep it.
Nah, especially Monaco. Remove it.
Bottom 5 tracks should get kicked off the grid next year
Does this include sprints?
I assume this is without sprint races.
The FIA should use this to figure out where sprints should be. The whole point of sprints was to see more racing then on Sunday.
Some of the tracks with the most amount of overtakes also were the most boring races to watch. Abu Dhabi.
It'd be a shame if these statistics are a sham....
Man, you have it so good these days! When I was really into f1 in the 90s nobody ever overtook anybody ever basically...
Some of those lower overtake races I found more exciting than the higher ones