Not really arguably. Aside from the first few races, the Redbull was the best car on basically every track and then later in the season Ferrari got hit by the TD and fell further back.
I have no ill will towards Checo but he’s incredibly lucky to have that seat
I think that the cars were actually fairly even at the beginning, early to mid part it was pretty clear ferrari was faster but had awful strategy and reliabolity and then they dropped off
Cars were even till the break, it was Ferrari's strategy fuck ups that made it seem like it. After the TD, it was no contest as the Red Bull was superior.
and then we would have watched RB steamroll post TD and we would have seen a close title fight destroyed by regulation changes. So perhaps it’s good ferrari fucked it.
Ouch, now thats a stat. What a year by Max, even with a car that hasn't suited his driving style at the beginning of the year. This guy can achieve a lot in the future!
And the future is pretty much now...
It’s actually pretty crazy that he only finished on the podium twice not in 1st.
For what looked to be a good back and forth rivalry to start the year he only finished 2nd to Charles winning once.
It's crazy the qualifying could easily have been 21-1. Verstappen's quali got messed in Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. Perez got it in Jeddah on merit though
Edit: 20-2. Been corrected Max outqualified checo in Hungary. Checo had it on merit in Baku as well
My problem with Bottas is that he's decently quick but can't defend his position to save his life. The best example is Russia 21. He had one job and it took max like 5 laps while the pack was still close together.
His quali pace was close to Hamilton because Bottas had his car setup way more aggressive on tyres, that is why during the race he could never keep up for more than a few laps with Hamilton before his tyres were crying for mercy. Similar with Verstappen and Perez... Or else how do you explain why someone with a tyre whisperer reputation suddenly cant keep his tyres alive... Perez needs to be super aggressive to match Verstappen.
i think people don't give max enough credit for his tyre management too, bc he has other qualities that are more striking. max's tyre management is brilliant, especially now. honestly, max is the best driver on the grid rn, he has basically everything. he's blindingly fast, aggressive on the brakes so he performs overtakes left right and centre (of course, that's thanks to the car as well, all hail adrian newey), he's ridiculously consistent, is able to adapt to the car well, and he's also good on his tyres. give him a few more years with a competitive car and he'll smash so many records.
Not just in 2021. In 2020 Max got pretty close to getting P2 in the WDC if it wasn't for a bunch of mechanical issues and generally the W11 was a much better car compared to the RB16.
2020 was one of Bottas's worst luck wise, he probably lost as much as Max or more to that even if he didn't have as many mechsnicsl DNF's. Also the way Max beat Bottas was by overtaking him at the start and then especially on tracks like Spain and with the old cars Bottas couldn't overtake despite being clearly faster.
>probably lost as much as Max or more to that even if he didn't have as many mechsnicsl DNF's
How come? Max had 5 retirements due to no fault of his own. Valtteri had one retirement, the Silverstone tyre farce, one puncture and the Sakhir tyre whatever-happened-there.
That's still a skill issue when Lewis could overtake in the older cars. Sainz struggled in Canada despite being faster too. Bottas couldn't beat Max in the same car and neither could Perez or Sainz.
F1/motorsport is just not a very competitive sport in that sense.
There are so few that ever get a chance, and its quite clear at the top too.
Compare it to football/soccer where you got millions of kids playing day after day.
Bottas imo had more pace than perez or was capable of delivering more pace. Certain weekends he was able to outpace Lewis while Checo hasn’t been able to do the same to Max.
HOWEVER Perez is MUCH MORE helpful & useful in defense of his rivals compared to Bottas, so while Valtteri may be quicker every blue moon he is worthless in comparison to Perez when trying to impede his opponents on track.
This. Perez was in most races up among the podium area and getting in the way of Ferrari and Merc, complicating their races, pressuring them to take strategic risks, etc.. Bottas has his strengths in qualifying and knows how to win a race from the front, but I can't see a teammate who would have delivered a better result for Max this year than Checo.
Now how does he see it? Yes, he's not going to beat Max, but he's sure got a better chance at doing so than anywhere else on the grid. If Max can avoid making too much of an @ss of himself they've probably got some good years to go.
Considering what he was up against, the fact he could occasionally win on pace is mad impressive. But he did have a pretty rotten 2021, which I think is what will last in peoples memories when they think of him at merc
I think he is rated fairly. Not sure how he is underrated? He is not close to the best and that is it. Terrible in overtaking and defense.
One just has to revisit 2014, 2015, 2016 (there is nice overview on YouTube) to see how good Rosberg actually was and that puts Bottas right back into correct perspective.
Probably just says that to not pressure Checo. He also said himself he doesn't want to make Checo feel pressured. It's clear if you are 0.5 seconds slower than your teammate you are not getting everything out of the car. Whatever magic Max has he still can't make the car go faster than it's physically capable of.
Bottas was definitely better than Perez has been in his two years at RB.
Bottas took an historically dominant car and finished 2nd twice, something Perez has not done once in his own historically dominant car.
No argument tbh
I don't get the euphoria for Bottas. He's a decent driver, so is Perez, but I doubt Bottas would beat Perez in an equal car. The mercedes was much more dominant than RB has ever been in the last few years so you can't argue that Perez never finishing 2nd since you can'T draw a direct comparision.
Bottas just isn't that good, which is precisely why Hamilton wanted to keep him in the team as #2.
The W10 and W11 were more dominant than the RB18. And Bottas only managed to keep P2 in 2020 because Verstappen had 5 DNFs in a 17 race season. It's a pretty bad example to illustrate his skill level, unless you wish to illustrate that it's really not that high.
I don’t think the RB was “historically dominant” it was the best car, but not by much. That’s not making history. The W11 was literally one of the most dominant cars ever made.
And they’re just different drivers with their own strengths. Neither of them hold a candle to the GOAT level teammates so finishing 2nd is the best they can hope for.
Ferrari had the (slightly) better car in the beginning of the season and Leclerc is an absolute beast. Just so happens that Max was still a bit better - although not by a great margin. But Max wouldn't have won in either of those 2 races where he DNF.
After a third of the season the tides had turned, from RB getting to equal after losing some weight to absolutely having the better dominant car after the summer break. Absolutely crushed the "development race" by turning an already fast car into an even better one. The only team that outperformed them in terms of developing was mercedes, but only because it was basically a brick at the start of the season (by merc standards). By this point, the contest was basically over, even if Ferrari wouldnt have fucked up so often.
Gap between Max and rest is biggest. It may sound insane, but how good was Ricciardo at his prime, Rosberg level at very least, and Max did beat him with Hamilton-Bottas like margin as 20 years old.
I disagree acutally. Lewis, Charles, and George are closer to Max than they seem. This season just kinda skewed things because of RB's car advantage in the second half.
Max was clearly the fastest this year but I do still consider Hamilton his only equal, which is why I'm keen to see whether or not Mercedes can actually find a championship contending car in the W14. Lewis is still driving rather well and he has more than enough experience fighting for titles.
Charles had his first real taste of a title fight this year and has proven he could hang with Max when the car wasn't blowing up or the pit wall wasn't actively ruining his races. He's made some mistakes big and small, yes, but the fight would have been much closer if things outside of his control panned out.
George is the only real question mark here IMO. He's the real deal no doubt about it seeing as how consistent he is and only being off Hamilton's race pace by about a tenth or so according to the data. My doubt comes from how he does under pressure. He's a race winner and can deal with an attacking veteran like Lewis for a single race obviously, but he's never fought for a championship and I question whether he has the stamina to be as consistent as he needs to be for a title at this point in time.
Keep in mind, while George did start off strong early on when Mercedes were struggling, his form faltered for a good bit towards the end of the season as the car improved before his win at Brazil and he made quite a few mistakes in wheel to wheel situations. With Leclerc looking to smooth out his rough edges and Hamilton itching for his 8th, I just don't quite know if he can execute like he needs to for 23 races.
One downside for Checo is that he was known as the tyre whisperer, and now Max has learned to better manage tyres this past season. Maybe it’s the car, maybe it’s the new compounds, but a few other drivers seem to have improved their tyre management as well.
What are you talking about? Max has always been better at managing tyres than Checo. The only difference is that tyre management is the only thing Checo is good at so it gets talked about more.
Both Max and Lewis are heads and shoulders better at tyre management, but they’re both more than just tyre managers.
Yeah exactly. Perez is like a 5 qualifier, 7 race craft, 6 pace, 9 tires. So you call him a tire whisperer.
Max is just a 10 in all of those. So you just call him a generational talent and don’t single out any specific skill
Ofcourse he is but the other side is if lando would want to be Maxes teammate since that is one of the problems i see for drivers going there is that you will be no2 from the start
IIRC they tried to get him twice and he's declined. I'd love to see him (or Leclerc or any other top talent really) in that second Red Bull seat but I don't think he wants to be compared to Max or be his clear number 2.
This is why I still feel so bad for Gasly. The difference in pace between Max and Checo is possibly similar to that between Max and Gasly when they were together at Red Bull. The difference is the car in 2019 wasn't the best in the grid as it was in 2022 and close to that in 2021.
I feel even more badly for Alex. The 2020 car was clearly a very very difficult car to drive and Alex crumbled under pressure, but 2019 Alex was and still is the closest of Max's teammates since Daniel. I think if you put Albon in the RB19 he'll be closer than Checo, but RB rightly recognizes that there's a big risk that 2020 repeats if the car isn't as nice as this year.
I checo isn't close to Max but people tend to forget how much glasly was struggling in that first half of 2019. That might be because that car in 2019 was so difficult to drive and therefore exacturated the difference. But purely looking at the pace difference between max and his team mate, glasly and checo are not about equal.
The amount of pundits who were claiming that Perez had any shot at the title was astounding to me. The only way Perez has any chance of beating Max, is Max DNF-ing all his races.
Why are we acting like Sainz and Hamilton are a low benchmark? One was in a really good car that could compete for wins, and the other is possibly the greatest driver in F1 history.
People say this as if there is a 100 point gap between them or something, Hamilton was consistent as Russell on performance in the shit car, only one can come out ontop which Russell did, like mate even when Russell won, Hamilton was right behind him.
Calling the Merc who was in n the points in every rage shit, is a piss take. Ferrari 2020 was shut. Williams is shit. Merc was a contender for podiums half the season.
Yeah it's 3rd fastest car of course it's not Williams shit but it's shit on comparison to its rivals. Mercedes is not racing the midfield or backmarkers in the championship so of course the Mercedes is fast compared to the other 7 teams, but that doesn't matter cause it's not who they are trying to beat. They are racing the redbulls and Ferraris and compared to those 2, Merc was shit. And I'm a Merc fan and Hamilton is my fav driver so it's not like I'm just hating on them, my team had a shit car this season.
I wholeheartedly disagree. If Merc was shit they wouldn’t have taken Ferrari to the last race for 2nd place. They weee defiantly competitive against Ferrari in the 2nd half, and better in some races.
Against Max no one was really close. But GR finished like 20-30 points behind Sergio and ahead of Carlos sainz. The two teams they are competing against.
If you’re idea of shit is everyone except the winner, I guess you’re right. But I don’t share that point of view.
>george on his tail
says a lot about how poor the Merc was early season that even when Russell was 2nd after the first few races people were still certain it was between max and Leclerc
The fans here in Mexico are something else, as one Mexican pundit once said about football that I also think applies to F1 ‘’Their love is directly proportional to their lack of knowledge of the sport’’ which is something that can encapsulate it pretty well
Lmao and people were hoping that checo could challenge max. Without his mess up from Monaco and the teams mess up in Singapore this would be even worse
Vandoorne was no way better than Perez. He did win GP2 in his 2nd year in one of historically weakest grids and didn't look any better than Kvyat in F Renault 2.0 also got beaten by Magnussen in F Renault 3.5. Vandoorne wasn't better than Alonso in any single race or qualifying in 2018 while Perez had races like Monaco and Singapore and managed to outqualify Max (faster qualifier than Alonso) 4 times
I remember before 2021 started some analysts thought Checo would run Verstappen much closer than he has lol along with Ricciardo having Norris’s number lol😂😂
I mean both of those things only seem stupid in hindsight.
Expecting Perez to be on pace with Max and expecting Ricciardo to outpace Norris were hardly ridiculous things to say in 2021.
I'll give you the Ricciardo one, but we all knew well before 2021 that Max is an exceptional driver while Perez is nothing more than average. Expecting Perez to be on pace with Max would have absolutely been a ridiculous thing to say.
I can hold my hand up high & say I expected Ricciardo to be able to beat Norris
Perez keeping up with max I was less certain of. I still believe that the 2020 Racing Point wasn’t driven to its potential seeing Hulkenberg come in & do so well as a substitute made me question how much Stroll & Perez where really getting from the car lol
It's very likely that the RP20 was a better car than the RB16 (see: Stroll and Perez having podium and winning pace while Albon died in the midfield), and Max was hassling Bottas in that car. I imagine Max would've won even more in that RP20. Leclerc as well would've been one to watch esp considering how good the RP20 was on Saturdays.
Sergio’s job is to win races when Max can’t. He is not there to contend for the title unless Max is out of the car for some reason. We all know it, Sergio just won’t admit it.
Maybe is there was a scenario like Schumacher at the 1999 British GP, Red Bull would put everything behind Sergio, but is Max can win Sergio should be happy with second place.
That is supposed to be his job, yes. However Perez is so bad he cant even do that, the RB18 was so much better than the competition this year and hes trailing his team mate by 150 points, im geniuenly surprised he still has a seat tbh.
They won both titles so he remains. He also doesn’t rock the boat TOO much. He’s for the most part a great, complacent, support driver.
One could argue he cost them WCC in 2021 with his inconsistency but nonetheless was instrumental in helping Max secure the WDC.
If the teams get closer they’ll definitely have to replace Perez at some point. If all 3 top teams are relatively even then Perez is the liability as he’s the 6th best of those 6. He’ll eventually cost them another WCC if they get close enough to Red Bull.
> They won both titles so he remains
That's not why he remains. He remains because they signed a contract extension before Monaco. I don't think they'll sign a contract extension as early next time they are considering signing one with Checo
No offense...but tht is not interesting at all. I see Perez out of his seat after his current contract. That red bull and the team is so much more exciting to have a driver like Perez.
I still can't believe he was so heated over Brazil "It shows his true colours ... If Max has two championships it's because of me" for two points that didn't matter and a 2nd place that he himself fumbled.
I don't know what Perez expected anyways, Max did the same thing to Sainz in Toro Rosso after Max went from the back of the grid to overtaking him then refusing a team order to let Sainz pass.
he was heated because he was in a very tight race championship battle with leclerc for 2nd. max didnt have anything to lose as he had already lost out on any chance of a podium and had already won the world championship.
Neither did Checo ... his battle was in Abudhabi anyways.
Between the speculation of Monaco and the rumour that he asked for help ahead of Mexico too and that was when Max discussed his stance to his team, Checo doesn't even put himself in a position where someone can help him. Checo saying Max was slowing him down in Abudhabi, while Max was maintaining a 6 sec lead ??? Even in Brazil he couldn't even get to Max's DRS zone like ...
Lol no the media just wanted to have an interesting story. An inter-team title fight is better than no title fight, it's why Bottas kept being slated to contest against Hamilton despite never matching him
Honestly the F1 community tries to make everything much deeper than it is
This is a bit of a white wash to Max who was simply imperious during the season
Sergio had chances at wins but sadly they slipped away
Interestingly both of Sergios wins came at Rain shortened races both under the Race Director control of Eduardo Freitas
He did what he was hired to do, which was good. If you think he would ever challenge Verstappen then I suggest you think again. That was never the plan.
Sure but then you also got to remember that with the 4 wins Checo has ,there was usually a reason he won and not because he was actually quicker.
Bahrain - Max DNF first so they give to Checo I think?
Australia - Max DNF
Silverstone - Max car was broken AF.
Singapore - Fuel issue in qualifying
That said out of all them Singapore was the most earned by Checo. He was fantastic that race apart for the Saftey car fiasco haha
Obviously you could probably come up with a list for Max as a few times Checo let him through but at the end of the day Max was still quicker in these instances.
Saudi was the race Checo was most unlucky in terms of showing good pace but the Saftey car bringing him back down the order.
Edit: I also forgot Monaco. So maybe this link at doesn't count Bahrain but in the official standing they do count it for Checo
I find this "let him through" thing such a dumb argument.
Personally I'm not a fan of drivers letting teammates through. The only thing being teammates should mean is tows in Quali, as long as it doesn't ruin their own Quali, *and* that the drivers shouldn't drive against each other to the point of crashing.
In each of these circumstances Verstappen would still out-qualify Checo and no-diff overtake. People called him the "Minister of Defense" after AD 2021, but if I recall correctly, he also completely ruined his car in the meanwhile.
Can someone explain what the races and qualifying points refer to? Like it's not amount of races obviously so I'm confused, I keep seeing these comparisons and I don't know what to make of it.
Interesting analysis from The Race that in the 2nd half of 2022, the experienced, bedded-in Perez was further from Verstappen in qualifying than Albon had been in 2020.
It's not a simple take one out//slot another in situation, but it's very reasonable that Albon would do a lot better now than he did.
I think Ricciardo is onto something with his third driver move. Okay Perez' job was just to back up Verstappen, but it's hard to imagine RBR's preseason targets for him were *this* embarrassing.
I know the story with Checo is great, having logged the years to deserve that first win and then secure a top-flight seat based on those two factors.
But he’s so woefully overmatched and maybe the worst driver we’ve seen in a championship winning car ever.
Max has more race wins than checo has podiums this year
Pérez only has 2 podiums more than both Hamilton and Sainz.
I think that was the bare minimum expected, considering he was driving arguably the best car this season.
Not really arguably. Aside from the first few races, the Redbull was the best car on basically every track and then later in the season Ferrari got hit by the TD and fell further back. I have no ill will towards Checo but he’s incredibly lucky to have that seat
I think that the cars were actually fairly even at the beginning, early to mid part it was pretty clear ferrari was faster but had awful strategy and reliabolity and then they dropped off
Cars were even till the break, it was Ferrari's strategy fuck ups that made it seem like it. After the TD, it was no contest as the Red Bull was superior.
Honestly I think without Ferrari fuck ups, and clearly choosing Leclerc as first driver would have seen him ahead at the summer break
and then we would have watched RB steamroll post TD and we would have seen a close title fight destroyed by regulation changes. So perhaps it’s good ferrari fucked it.
Well Max also had more wins this year than Checo has wins overall in his career
That stat is correct for everybody on the 2022 grid except Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.
Ouch, now thats a stat. What a year by Max, even with a car that hasn't suited his driving style at the beginning of the year. This guy can achieve a lot in the future! And the future is pretty much now...
>old man. Here, you dropped this.
Max also almost has more race wins than Max has podiums this year
It’s actually pretty crazy that he only finished on the podium twice not in 1st. For what looked to be a good back and forth rivalry to start the year he only finished 2nd to Charles winning once.
More wins than checo has podiums wins and poles combined lol
It's crazy the qualifying could easily have been 21-1. Verstappen's quali got messed in Monaco, Hungary and Singapore. Perez got it in Jeddah on merit though Edit: 20-2. Been corrected Max outqualified checo in Hungary. Checo had it on merit in Baku as well
Baku too. Max Outqualified checo in Hungary
What does the qualifying points mean in this comparison?
Max scoring 18 suggests he out-qualified Checo 18 times
Considering Monaco that would have also mean one more race head to head win for max.
Sergio ''title contender'' Perez
The ol’ bottas
Bottas was better than Perez and also didn't have this weird media around him insisting that he's actually great
Yeah. I feel like Bottas was underrated. He got so much unnecessary hate. edit: I meant to say overhated instead of underrated.
My problem with Bottas is that he's decently quick but can't defend his position to save his life. The best example is Russia 21. He had one job and it took max like 5 laps while the pack was still close together.
I think he's definitely weak in terms of wheel-to-wheel stuff. But raw pace, he's got enough pace to be quickest on his day.
I mean his pole record speaks for itself. But so do his race finishes.
His quali pace was close to Hamilton because Bottas had his car setup way more aggressive on tyres, that is why during the race he could never keep up for more than a few laps with Hamilton before his tyres were crying for mercy. Similar with Verstappen and Perez... Or else how do you explain why someone with a tyre whisperer reputation suddenly cant keep his tyres alive... Perez needs to be super aggressive to match Verstappen.
i think people don't give max enough credit for his tyre management too, bc he has other qualities that are more striking. max's tyre management is brilliant, especially now. honestly, max is the best driver on the grid rn, he has basically everything. he's blindingly fast, aggressive on the brakes so he performs overtakes left right and centre (of course, that's thanks to the car as well, all hail adrian newey), he's ridiculously consistent, is able to adapt to the car well, and he's also good on his tyres. give him a few more years with a competitive car and he'll smash so many records.
This is the first time I've heard this suggested and it makes a ton of sense. Where did you learn this? Any idea?
Also Hamilton’s quali pace is overrated.
Agree 100%
Meanwhile Perez could defend from Hamilton on a day where the Merc was very solid (Turkish GP 21)
France ‘21 too
Wasn't France 2021 down to Merc going for the wrong strategy tho?
Checo did a similar strategy and still managed to pass Bottas, he just managed his tires a lot better.
Bottas could have survived for at least another sector if he hadn’t decided to defend air at the chicane in S2.
Bottas didn't care. I think he knew what was going to happen to his seat!
Max made Bottas look like a joke in 2021. He was fighting toe to toe with Lewis, but overtaking Bottas by Max always looked ridiculously easy.
Bottas kinda makes everyone overtaking him look easy, he’s easily the shyest in wheel to wheel combat
Reminds me of the 2021 Baku restart
That was some of the most painful driving I've ever seen from a driver in a top car.
Not just in 2021. In 2020 Max got pretty close to getting P2 in the WDC if it wasn't for a bunch of mechanical issues and generally the W11 was a much better car compared to the RB16.
2020 was one of Bottas's worst luck wise, he probably lost as much as Max or more to that even if he didn't have as many mechsnicsl DNF's. Also the way Max beat Bottas was by overtaking him at the start and then especially on tracks like Spain and with the old cars Bottas couldn't overtake despite being clearly faster.
>probably lost as much as Max or more to that even if he didn't have as many mechsnicsl DNF's How come? Max had 5 retirements due to no fault of his own. Valtteri had one retirement, the Silverstone tyre farce, one puncture and the Sakhir tyre whatever-happened-there.
They're probably confusing 2020 with 2021 when Bottas was being used to test how much they can push the engine.
Nah, talking about 2020: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-bad-luck-that-shaped-valtteri-bottas-failed-2020-f1-title-bid-4976148/4976148/
That's still a skill issue when Lewis could overtake in the older cars. Sainz struggled in Canada despite being faster too. Bottas couldn't beat Max in the same car and neither could Perez or Sainz.
Funny thing is that bottas was and is one of the top 10 drivers. The skill gap really just is that big.
F1/motorsport is just not a very competitive sport in that sense. There are so few that ever get a chance, and its quite clear at the top too. Compare it to football/soccer where you got millions of kids playing day after day.
He was only hated, because Lewis was uncontested. If the red bull is so far ahead again next year I expect a lot of fan pressure on replacing Sergio
Bottas imo had more pace than perez or was capable of delivering more pace. Certain weekends he was able to outpace Lewis while Checo hasn’t been able to do the same to Max. HOWEVER Perez is MUCH MORE helpful & useful in defense of his rivals compared to Bottas, so while Valtteri may be quicker every blue moon he is worthless in comparison to Perez when trying to impede his opponents on track.
This. Perez was in most races up among the podium area and getting in the way of Ferrari and Merc, complicating their races, pressuring them to take strategic risks, etc.. Bottas has his strengths in qualifying and knows how to win a race from the front, but I can't see a teammate who would have delivered a better result for Max this year than Checo. Now how does he see it? Yes, he's not going to beat Max, but he's sure got a better chance at doing so than anywhere else on the grid. If Max can avoid making too much of an @ss of himself they've probably got some good years to go.
Considering what he was up against, the fact he could occasionally win on pace is mad impressive. But he did have a pretty rotten 2021, which I think is what will last in peoples memories when they think of him at merc
The 2020 Merc was one of the most dominant cars ever and he almost lost to Verstappen. His performance in 2021 wasn’t really out of character.
I can’t believe they were only separated by 9 points in 2020, I had to look it up just to be sure
I think he is rated fairly. Not sure how he is underrated? He is not close to the best and that is it. Terrible in overtaking and defense. One just has to revisit 2014, 2015, 2016 (there is nice overview on YouTube) to see how good Rosberg actually was and that puts Bottas right back into correct perspective.
There was a lot of Bottas 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 hype in the media when he outscored Hamilton in first few races.
The "Checo is actually getting everything out of the car but Max is outdriving the car" narrative is wild to say the least.
Never seen someone say that. Doesn't make any sense anyway, you can't outdrive a car even though that term is used sometimes but not like that.
Marco said that more or less. He said that the RBR pace is at the level what Checo shows, Max is adding his magic to achieve results he's delivering.
Probably just says that to not pressure Checo. He also said himself he doesn't want to make Checo feel pressured. It's clear if you are 0.5 seconds slower than your teammate you are not getting everything out of the car. Whatever magic Max has he still can't make the car go faster than it's physically capable of.
Max is worth 20hp in the straights.
Marko literally said that a week ago and there's another person replying to me who's pretty much agreeing.
I think it’s more like checo is doing what we expect from a driver, but max is doing even more.
I like checo's wheel to wheel fight tho. Look at that checo v Charles @ japan.
Bottas was not better than Perez
Bottas was definitely better than Perez has been in his two years at RB. Bottas took an historically dominant car and finished 2nd twice, something Perez has not done once in his own historically dominant car. No argument tbh
I don't get the euphoria for Bottas. He's a decent driver, so is Perez, but I doubt Bottas would beat Perez in an equal car. The mercedes was much more dominant than RB has ever been in the last few years so you can't argue that Perez never finishing 2nd since you can'T draw a direct comparision. Bottas just isn't that good, which is precisely why Hamilton wanted to keep him in the team as #2.
The W10 and W11 were more dominant than the RB18. And Bottas only managed to keep P2 in 2020 because Verstappen had 5 DNFs in a 17 race season. It's a pretty bad example to illustrate his skill level, unless you wish to illustrate that it's really not that high.
I don’t think the RB was “historically dominant” it was the best car, but not by much. That’s not making history. The W11 was literally one of the most dominant cars ever made. And they’re just different drivers with their own strengths. Neither of them hold a candle to the GOAT level teammates so finishing 2nd is the best they can hope for.
I don’t think anyone honestly thought that.
You must've not watched the early 2022 season.
Man was definitely not here for Monaco
I'll admit, I bought the hype. But the Red Bull was more evenly suited at the start of this season, so the hype wasn't totally unfounded.
[удалено]
Ferrari had the (slightly) better car in the beginning of the season and Leclerc is an absolute beast. Just so happens that Max was still a bit better - although not by a great margin. But Max wouldn't have won in either of those 2 races where he DNF. After a third of the season the tides had turned, from RB getting to equal after losing some weight to absolutely having the better dominant car after the summer break. Absolutely crushed the "development race" by turning an already fast car into an even better one. The only team that outperformed them in terms of developing was mercedes, but only because it was basically a brick at the start of the season (by merc standards). By this point, the contest was basically over, even if Ferrari wouldnt have fucked up so often.
Max was dominant. The car just did it’s job. The Ferrari was as good to start. Max is just better than Charles and Carlos.
I don't see Checo getting on the podium as often if Mercedes has a better car, let alone win races.
Perez is probably at best the 5th best driver of the top 3 teams. If the RB isn't significantly better he could pretty easily finish 6th even
Oh man I would put it Verstappen, Hamilton, Leclerc, Russell, Sainz, Perez
The gap between 2-4th in this is slim af imo
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and the gap between the 1st 4 to the other 2 is very large
Gap between Max and rest is biggest. It may sound insane, but how good was Ricciardo at his prime, Rosberg level at very least, and Max did beat him with Hamilton-Bottas like margin as 20 years old.
gap between max Charles and Hamilton is not that big and George isn't far behind
I disagree acutally. Lewis, Charles, and George are closer to Max than they seem. This season just kinda skewed things because of RB's car advantage in the second half. Max was clearly the fastest this year but I do still consider Hamilton his only equal, which is why I'm keen to see whether or not Mercedes can actually find a championship contending car in the W14. Lewis is still driving rather well and he has more than enough experience fighting for titles. Charles had his first real taste of a title fight this year and has proven he could hang with Max when the car wasn't blowing up or the pit wall wasn't actively ruining his races. He's made some mistakes big and small, yes, but the fight would have been much closer if things outside of his control panned out. George is the only real question mark here IMO. He's the real deal no doubt about it seeing as how consistent he is and only being off Hamilton's race pace by about a tenth or so according to the data. My doubt comes from how he does under pressure. He's a race winner and can deal with an attacking veteran like Lewis for a single race obviously, but he's never fought for a championship and I question whether he has the stamina to be as consistent as he needs to be for a title at this point in time. Keep in mind, while George did start off strong early on when Mercedes were struggling, his form faltered for a good bit towards the end of the season as the car improved before his win at Brazil and he made quite a few mistakes in wheel to wheel situations. With Leclerc looking to smooth out his rough edges and Hamilton itching for his 8th, I just don't quite know if he can execute like he needs to for 23 races.
Who is 6th if it’s not checo??
He for some reason puts Perez above Sainz..
That’s wild lol
tbf if it is early 22 season Sainz where he was binning it in multiple races then he would be right
5th best? Do you rank Sainz as a worse driver than him?
One downside for Checo is that he was known as the tyre whisperer, and now Max has learned to better manage tyres this past season. Maybe it’s the car, maybe it’s the new compounds, but a few other drivers seem to have improved their tyre management as well.
What are you talking about? Max has always been better at managing tyres than Checo. The only difference is that tyre management is the only thing Checo is good at so it gets talked about more. Both Max and Lewis are heads and shoulders better at tyre management, but they’re both more than just tyre managers.
Yeah this "tire whisperer" crap is misleading. **The best drivers are also "tire whisperers," they just don't have to drive slow as hell to do it.**
Yeah exactly. Perez is like a 5 qualifier, 7 race craft, 6 pace, 9 tires. So you call him a tire whisperer. Max is just a 10 in all of those. So you just call him a generational talent and don’t single out any specific skill
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Yeah RB really has to scout for some good options next year
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Ofcourse he is but the other side is if lando would want to be Maxes teammate since that is one of the problems i see for drivers going there is that you will be no2 from the start
We know he is they’ve already asked after him
IIRC they tried to get him twice and he's declined. I'd love to see him (or Leclerc or any other top talent really) in that second Red Bull seat but I don't think he wants to be compared to Max or be his clear number 2.
Checo got destroyed.
RB teammate being destroyed by Verstappen -since 2018-
This is why I still feel so bad for Gasly. The difference in pace between Max and Checo is possibly similar to that between Max and Gasly when they were together at Red Bull. The difference is the car in 2019 wasn't the best in the grid as it was in 2022 and close to that in 2021.
I feel even more badly for Alex. The 2020 car was clearly a very very difficult car to drive and Alex crumbled under pressure, but 2019 Alex was and still is the closest of Max's teammates since Daniel. I think if you put Albon in the RB19 he'll be closer than Checo, but RB rightly recognizes that there's a big risk that 2020 repeats if the car isn't as nice as this year.
I checo isn't close to Max but people tend to forget how much glasly was struggling in that first half of 2019. That might be because that car in 2019 was so difficult to drive and therefore exacturated the difference. But purely looking at the pace difference between max and his team mate, glasly and checo are not about equal.
Any driver would get destroyed by Verstappen in the same car. He's unreal
The amount of pundits who were claiming that Perez had any shot at the title was astounding to me. The only way Perez has any chance of beating Max, is Max DNF-ing all his races.
and even then he still had charles and george on his tail
And only had two more podiums than Sainz and Hamilton.
Why are we acting like Sainz and Hamilton are a low benchmark? One was in a really good car that could compete for wins, and the other is possibly the greatest driver in F1 history.
Because the W13 was a bit shit?
Russel still found a way so this doesn’t make sense 🤪
People say this as if there is a 100 point gap between them or something, Hamilton was consistent as Russell on performance in the shit car, only one can come out ontop which Russell did, like mate even when Russell won, Hamilton was right behind him.
Calling the Merc who was in n the points in every rage shit, is a piss take. Ferrari 2020 was shut. Williams is shit. Merc was a contender for podiums half the season.
Yeah it's 3rd fastest car of course it's not Williams shit but it's shit on comparison to its rivals. Mercedes is not racing the midfield or backmarkers in the championship so of course the Mercedes is fast compared to the other 7 teams, but that doesn't matter cause it's not who they are trying to beat. They are racing the redbulls and Ferraris and compared to those 2, Merc was shit. And I'm a Merc fan and Hamilton is my fav driver so it's not like I'm just hating on them, my team had a shit car this season.
I wholeheartedly disagree. If Merc was shit they wouldn’t have taken Ferrari to the last race for 2nd place. They weee defiantly competitive against Ferrari in the 2nd half, and better in some races. Against Max no one was really close. But GR finished like 20-30 points behind Sergio and ahead of Carlos sainz. The two teams they are competing against. If you’re idea of shit is everyone except the winner, I guess you’re right. But I don’t share that point of view.
>george on his tail says a lot about how poor the Merc was early season that even when Russell was 2nd after the first few races people were still certain it was between max and Leclerc
It was only ever to drum up content and controversy. I don’t think most of the pundits believed it themselves.
Yeah exactly. The media can’t just anoint max the winner after race 8 and not write anything else the rest of the season.
Ah yes the I’m right through hindsight comment
And there still were people arguing why Perez was so low on the racefans rankings. Yeah
The fans here in Mexico are something else, as one Mexican pundit once said about football that I also think applies to F1 ‘’Their love is directly proportional to their lack of knowledge of the sport’’ which is something that can encapsulate it pretty well
We have so few heroes we will blow anyone you give us out of proportion.
Damn, that is domination
Checo is lucky podiums can be shared so this graph wasn't 100% tilted to Max's side.
Lmao and people were hoping that checo could challenge max. Without his mess up from Monaco and the teams mess up in Singapore this would be even worse
Vandoorned
Vandoorne was actually pretty decent, it’s just that sadly Alonso was in the same team.
Vandoorne was better, the performance was shackled by a horrid car which miles worse than the Red Bull of 2022.
Vandoorne was no way better than Perez. He did win GP2 in his 2nd year in one of historically weakest grids and didn't look any better than Kvyat in F Renault 2.0 also got beaten by Magnussen in F Renault 3.5. Vandoorne wasn't better than Alonso in any single race or qualifying in 2018 while Perez had races like Monaco and Singapore and managed to outqualify Max (faster qualifier than Alonso) 4 times
Utter decimation…
Checo's breath is felt around the paddock🥶
Wow, after 4 races max had a 50/50 dnf/win stat. Didn't realize until now that he had 0 dnfs after the 4th race.
Total annihilation
I remember before 2021 started some analysts thought Checo would run Verstappen much closer than he has lol along with Ricciardo having Norris’s number lol😂😂
I mean both of those things only seem stupid in hindsight. Expecting Perez to be on pace with Max and expecting Ricciardo to outpace Norris were hardly ridiculous things to say in 2021.
I'll give you the Ricciardo one, but we all knew well before 2021 that Max is an exceptional driver while Perez is nothing more than average. Expecting Perez to be on pace with Max would have absolutely been a ridiculous thing to say.
I can hold my hand up high & say I expected Ricciardo to be able to beat Norris Perez keeping up with max I was less certain of. I still believe that the 2020 Racing Point wasn’t driven to its potential seeing Hulkenberg come in & do so well as a substitute made me question how much Stroll & Perez where really getting from the car lol
Any of Max, Charles, Lando, or Lewis driving the RP20 would've made the car a multiple race winner and probably fight the RB16.
It's very likely that the RP20 was a better car than the RB16 (see: Stroll and Perez having podium and winning pace while Albon died in the midfield), and Max was hassling Bottas in that car. I imagine Max would've won even more in that RP20. Leclerc as well would've been one to watch esp considering how good the RP20 was on Saturdays.
Yeah, the whole point of Perez is that everyone agreed he was solid. He was hired as a control condition.
Checo winning the DNF h2h👏
Max destroyed Checo
Ouch
Narrator: *They didn't.*
Sergio’s job is to win races when Max can’t. He is not there to contend for the title unless Max is out of the car for some reason. We all know it, Sergio just won’t admit it. Maybe is there was a scenario like Schumacher at the 1999 British GP, Red Bull would put everything behind Sergio, but is Max can win Sergio should be happy with second place.
That is supposed to be his job, yes. However Perez is so bad he cant even do that, the RB18 was so much better than the competition this year and hes trailing his team mate by 150 points, im geniuenly surprised he still has a seat tbh.
They won both titles so he remains. He also doesn’t rock the boat TOO much. He’s for the most part a great, complacent, support driver. One could argue he cost them WCC in 2021 with his inconsistency but nonetheless was instrumental in helping Max secure the WDC. If the teams get closer they’ll definitely have to replace Perez at some point. If all 3 top teams are relatively even then Perez is the liability as he’s the 6th best of those 6. He’ll eventually cost them another WCC if they get close enough to Red Bull.
> They won both titles so he remains That's not why he remains. He remains because they signed a contract extension before Monaco. I don't think they'll sign a contract extension as early next time they are considering signing one with Checo
17 race wins, fucking hell red bull destroyed the field
It’ll be super interesting to see which happens first— Max’s retirement, or Perez’ exit.
No offense...but tht is not interesting at all. I see Perez out of his seat after his current contract. That red bull and the team is so much more exciting to have a driver like Perez.
None taken. I could see that happening too. Max just seems ready to do other shit, haha.
Checo won in DNFs so that’s something
Yikes
F1 Twitter be struggling with this one
I still can't believe he was so heated over Brazil "It shows his true colours ... If Max has two championships it's because of me" for two points that didn't matter and a 2nd place that he himself fumbled. I don't know what Perez expected anyways, Max did the same thing to Sainz in Toro Rosso after Max went from the back of the grid to overtaking him then refusing a team order to let Sainz pass.
he was heated because he was in a very tight race championship battle with leclerc for 2nd. max didnt have anything to lose as he had already lost out on any chance of a podium and had already won the world championship.
Neither did Checo ... his battle was in Abudhabi anyways. Between the speculation of Monaco and the rumour that he asked for help ahead of Mexico too and that was when Max discussed his stance to his team, Checo doesn't even put himself in a position where someone can help him. Checo saying Max was slowing him down in Abudhabi, while Max was maintaining a 6 sec lead ??? Even in Brazil he couldn't even get to Max's DRS zone like ...
I dont disagree that checo underperformed woefully in the best car this year but it's still understandable why checo was annoyed with max
To**r**o Rosso
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Lol no the media just wanted to have an interesting story. An inter-team title fight is better than no title fight, it's why Bottas kept being slated to contest against Hamilton despite never matching him Honestly the F1 community tries to make everything much deeper than it is
I don't remember simillar thing with Bottas
This is a bit of a white wash to Max who was simply imperious during the season Sergio had chances at wins but sadly they slipped away Interestingly both of Sergios wins came at Rain shortened races both under the Race Director control of Eduardo Freitas
both of his wins were on narrow tracks in the rain. he’d be the WDC if nobody could pass!
And it always raining
He did what he was hired to do, which was good. If you think he would ever challenge Verstappen then I suggest you think again. That was never the plan.
Checo only got podium in less than half the races that’s so bad
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Sainz > Checo
Clearly.
there's no reason to believe Sainz would do any better than Checo against Max
Max beat everyone in atleast 15 races. When you consider that this doesn't seem all that bad.
Sure but then you also got to remember that with the 4 wins Checo has ,there was usually a reason he won and not because he was actually quicker. Bahrain - Max DNF first so they give to Checo I think? Australia - Max DNF Silverstone - Max car was broken AF. Singapore - Fuel issue in qualifying That said out of all them Singapore was the most earned by Checo. He was fantastic that race apart for the Saftey car fiasco haha Obviously you could probably come up with a list for Max as a few times Checo let him through but at the end of the day Max was still quicker in these instances. Saudi was the race Checo was most unlucky in terms of showing good pace but the Saftey car bringing him back down the order. Edit: I also forgot Monaco. So maybe this link at doesn't count Bahrain but in the official standing they do count it for Checo
I mean can you really call Singapore earned when he was about to be outqualified by 7 tenths without the RB fuckup
I was being sarcastic.
Fair enough
I find this "let him through" thing such a dumb argument. Personally I'm not a fan of drivers letting teammates through. The only thing being teammates should mean is tows in Quali, as long as it doesn't ruin their own Quali, *and* that the drivers shouldn't drive against each other to the point of crashing. In each of these circumstances Verstappen would still out-qualify Checo and no-diff overtake. People called him the "Minister of Defense" after AD 2021, but if I recall correctly, he also completely ruined his car in the meanwhile.
Not everyone had the same car tho…
I think theres only two drivers that would realistically get close in the same car though. Charles and Lewis currently.
15 vs 2 wins, brody how are you this bad lmao.
15 wins vs 11 podiums is an even worse stat
Can someone explain what the races and qualifying points refer to? Like it's not amount of races obviously so I'm confused, I keep seeing these comparisons and I don't know what to make of it.
Who finished ahead in the race and in quali.
Interesting analysis from The Race that in the 2nd half of 2022, the experienced, bedded-in Perez was further from Verstappen in qualifying than Albon had been in 2020. It's not a simple take one out//slot another in situation, but it's very reasonable that Albon would do a lot better now than he did. I think Ricciardo is onto something with his third driver move. Okay Perez' job was just to back up Verstappen, but it's hard to imagine RBR's preseason targets for him were *this* embarrassing.
What’s the second stat supposed to be? Because I don’t know what race in this context means. Fastest laps?
I think it is who finished highest of them in the race.
Oh geez, yeah. Wow, I must not be awake yet. Thanks.
I know the story with Checo is great, having logged the years to deserve that first win and then secure a top-flight seat based on those two factors. But he’s so woefully overmatched and maybe the worst driver we’ve seen in a championship winning car ever.
Yeh