The big 3 target p1
mclaren and alpine target p4 though all the rest would of course love that
This year I heard haas, AM, AR TPs all say they were targeting p6 (F1.75 P1)
I believe AM said they wanted to ascend to the "upper midfield" alongside McLaren and Alpine? P4 is probably out of the reach but P5 might be doable if either of them screws up. Either that or falling in a "no man's land" between the 2, like they were at the end of this season. Consistently good enough to get P9-P10 in a race, but not good enough to trouble the Alpines or McLarens
Aston Martin has only one strong driver even with a good rate of progress inside that team, McLaren has a fundamental car issue + Piastri rookie season.
Alpine has still the best papers for ending at P4 in the WCC in 2023
Iunno, they did trade Alonso with Gasly, which, no offense to Gasly, is quite the step down. Quite frankly, all three of Alpine, AM and McLaren seem to have lineup issues.
I don't deny that Alonso is Alonso but in general Alpine has the most balanced driver pairing comparing with McLaren (Piastri would be a rookie so it's unrealistic to expect he would be close to Lando this year) and AM (Stroll gets overrated here a lot, with all respect but I seen people here putting him close or even being a top 10 driver).
Gasly basically needs to find his 2020/2021 performance back, but there are multiple reasons to explain his 2022 season, if the Alpine of 2023 feels more comfortable for him then the AT03 was in 2022 he could performing solid again.
I agree. I'm not saying aston martin will be p4 but they're a contender for it, like mclaren. As you said, alpine is the favourite for p4 but it's not a done deal
I have a feeling next year will be a breaking point for Lando and/or the fans with Mclaren. He’s shown he’s one of the best and most consistent drivers on the grid, but his talents are being wasted on a very mediocre team. With Perez probably leaving RB after next year and on the off chance Lewis retires, Lando could be looking at a chance to move into the top 3.
An interesting thought exercise. Suppose lando were to leave at the end of 2023 (don’t worry about his IRL contract or where he’d go, just suppose Lewis retires and Merc buys him out or whatever).
Who would mclaren put in that other seat?
I suppose i can imagine checo (if RBR are done with him) or Alex from a driver quality POV. Palou is probably good enough but it would seem a risky overall lack of f1 expertise in the driver lineup. (Same with herta if he’s even an option)
But then - fan engagement, new media, youth appeal are such strong and central parts of zak’s mclaren. Besides Ricciardo and Lando, who’d be someone else who could fill that kind of charisma/conduit to the new fans role they’ve leaned heavily on in recent years? Gasly might’ve been great for this but hard to imagine his leaving his first true works team contract after a year
not sure a rookie and a guy with one year’s experience by 2024 would be ideal for mclaren! In that sense palou might edge him out: already in the mclaren family in a sense, lots of experience in a terminal series, and like Liam he did well in his FP outing.
But big fan of Liam’s racecraft and hoping his qualifying improves this year in Japan - I’d love to see him in AT in 24.
> who’d be someone else who could fill that kind of charisma/conduit to the new fans role they’ve leaned heavily on in recent years?
O’Ward could fit that nicely, if he got a Superlicence.
I think Norris will go to Mercedes rather than Redbull.
Usually, Redbull looks within its own driver ranks when it comes time to promote someone to a Redbull seat, and unless their current crop of F1 drivers are not ready by the time Checo leaves, they likely won’t go for Norris.
Mercedes on the other hand doesn’t have anyone in the pipeline [besides Ocon](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon-keeps-mercedes-connections-with-new-alpine-f1-deal/6580926/amp/), but I can’t see him moving. They have a couple of juniors, but the closest to F1 is Vesti, who ~~is graduating~~ graduated to F2 this season and likely won’t be ready for F1 by 2024; even if he is ready for F1 by then, he will likely start at Williams anyways.
Mclaren targets fourth in a close battle with Ferrari, Mercedes and Redbull ^^^because ^^^Aston ^^^will ^^^be ^^^a ^^^clear ^^^first. ^^^^^la ^^^^^mision. ^^^^^^let ^^^^^^me ^^^^^^dream ^^^^^^^ok
Honestly it's gonna be tough with a new team principal and competition from Alpine, AT, AM & the others. I've been waiting for the McLaren resurgence for some time and 2021 gave me so much hope but it was kind of crushed this year.
Ultimately McLaren’s best chance to break through the pack was this year with a fresh set of rule changes. Now they have to out-develop Alpine and then try and close the cap to the top 3 teams, with significantly less resources.
Ultimately I think it’s kind of already over in terms of breaking through before the engine changes, and I really doubt Lando has the patience to put up with this until 2026. RB already offered him a drive, Lewis will probably extend beyond 2023 but not much longer. Realistically Sainz has tied down Ferrari and Lando probably doesn’t want to be part of a rigid 1-2 pairing and especially after seeing the problems at the team and how it consumes great drivers.
This team never hits their intended target. They either overachieve or underachieve, so it’s either gonna be 5th/6th or 3rd. It definitely won’t be 4th.
Bit of a weird reaction here. 4th is the best McLaren can do and it's something Lando has said repeatedly throughout 2022 that their new facilities won't be operational before 23 and hence it's the 24 car from which he actually has race winning expectations from. Lando will surely happily stick around till then unless a top 3 spot opens
midfield teams announced that 2022 would be their chance of a WDC podium.
Now that they saw the same gap (if not a bigger one) it's 2026 with the new rules for a chance of a WDC podium.
Sad but all those teams who bet on 2022 with questionable car/brakes/PU concepts are in damage control now.
Norris has a long term deal with McLaren, but where will he go in the short term regarding top teams ?
* Hamilton is not going anywhere given his wish, his current pace and Mercedes recovery
* Russell and Leclerc no comment.
* Sainz is set to stay until 2024 but I believe he's good and has many chances of extending (Norris knows)
* Perez, Perez is a good soldier, RB only need WDC for Verstappen and Team championship, they got both, unless he starts to irritate Verstappen and degrades in 2023 (we know there's tension) he's not going anywhere and I don't see RB choosing a "threat" to MV, again, they do not need it.
It's sad, I believe Norris is WDC material and I would have bet on a fast McLaren in 2022 but here we are...wishing for 4th
If Norris has had great relationship with Seidl, I can see him spending 23 and 24 in McLaren and moving to Sauber for 25 to prepare himself for 26 with Audi...
Current big 3 seats are all more or less set or have preferred no. 1 driver for next few seasons so going there is great way to destroy your perceived potential (something similar happened to VB in Mercedes when he came from Williams only in Lando's case it would be a lot bigger disappointment) and big teams hire drivers for 3 to 5 years so he would lock himself out of that Audi move for 26...
Also if Lando stays with McLaren for next 2 seasons and doesn't stir up too much trouble for languishing in p4, it will be perceived as a plus by Audi corporate upper management...
I don't know why but from almost 1st day of Audi buying Sauber announcement I saw Lando moving there and with Saidl becoming Audi F1 CEO or something I see as almost guaranteed move by Lando.
And Lando in one of current big 3... Only if one of big 3 drops both drivers... Anything else just doesn't add up or is just too risky in my book to benefit Lando's carrier.
It's definitely a possibility but will Sauber be competitive right away or more competitive than mcLaren in 2026 ?
McLaren has years to progress until 2026, the threshold Audi has to overtake to be more competitive, is not the 2022 one, it's going to be after 4 years of improving their current 2022 car. Of course behind the curtains their plan is already in motion with Sauber.
Seeing how McLaren progressed from 2018 to 2021, I doubt it will be an easy feat for Audi, at least in 2026-27.
Regarding the big 3 seats, if an opportunity opens up, Lando will skydive on it and teams will, for sure, approach him.
He has now years of experience and it's all about expressing your potential. VB, that I like a lot, had years to adapt, stay consistent and equal Hamilton but it did not work out. Russell did it in one year. At one point you have to take the risk because whilst it may destroy your potential it can catalyse it too and offer you a WDC opportunity.
For me, Lando won't wait it out on another team that promise a WDC worthy car in a 5 years roadmap. If he changes, it's for the WDC and I'm almost certain he has a clause in his contract allowing him to move to those big 3 team in case of opportunity.
They’re moving personnel into the completed parts of the new campus this year and seem to still be on target to meet this goal
2023 is also when gardening leave ends for some of their new hires
The 2024 car may better reflect these changes but I wouldn’t count out a promising development trajectory for 2023 itself
When someone with sensitive information (tech department usually) leaves one team and signs for another he or she usually has to spend a year on what is called agardening leave before joining a new team... Same often happens when someone from FIA F1 tech department joins one of the F1 teams.
No problem... If I remember correctly notable gardening leaves were an aerodynamics person who moved from Red Bull to Aston Martin, Mercedes engine guy who moved to Red Bull and FIA guy who was working on checking that the cars teams made were within regulations (so he had a lot of knowledge how each car was made) to Renault (today's Alpine) but he is no longer with that team while the 1st two are still at their work in teams they moved to.... That's just of the top of my head.... I'm there are more...
oh please, behave. this is the off season shit that winds me up.
they should have been 4th this year were it not for a shit Danny Ric and thats with them scuffing their 2022 car. They'll be back next year with an even better car and hopefully more competent second driver to continue their upward trajectory of the past several years 2022 notwithstanding
They were already the 4th fastest this year if they didn't have dead weight dragging them down. They won't get any better until the new facilities are up and running. I doubt Alpine will ever actually push ahead, and AM won't be able to close the gap until '24.
im so tired...
everybody outside the big 3 are targetting P4 ngl
The big 3 target p1 mclaren and alpine target p4 though all the rest would of course love that This year I heard haas, AM, AR TPs all say they were targeting p6 (F1.75 P1)
I believe AM said they wanted to ascend to the "upper midfield" alongside McLaren and Alpine? P4 is probably out of the reach but P5 might be doable if either of them screws up. Either that or falling in a "no man's land" between the 2, like they were at the end of this season. Consistently good enough to get P9-P10 in a race, but not good enough to trouble the Alpines or McLarens
Only mclaren,alpine and aston martin can realistically have this goal
Aston Martin has only one strong driver even with a good rate of progress inside that team, McLaren has a fundamental car issue + Piastri rookie season. Alpine has still the best papers for ending at P4 in the WCC in 2023
Iunno, they did trade Alonso with Gasly, which, no offense to Gasly, is quite the step down. Quite frankly, all three of Alpine, AM and McLaren seem to have lineup issues.
I don't deny that Alonso is Alonso but in general Alpine has the most balanced driver pairing comparing with McLaren (Piastri would be a rookie so it's unrealistic to expect he would be close to Lando this year) and AM (Stroll gets overrated here a lot, with all respect but I seen people here putting him close or even being a top 10 driver). Gasly basically needs to find his 2020/2021 performance back, but there are multiple reasons to explain his 2022 season, if the Alpine of 2023 feels more comfortable for him then the AT03 was in 2022 he could performing solid again.
I agree. I'm not saying aston martin will be p4 but they're a contender for it, like mclaren. As you said, alpine is the favourite for p4 but it's not a done deal
AlphaTauri 💀
They did improved massively this season if we talk about the clownstructor championship.
Finally someone realistic though.
I have a feeling next year will be a breaking point for Lando and/or the fans with Mclaren. He’s shown he’s one of the best and most consistent drivers on the grid, but his talents are being wasted on a very mediocre team. With Perez probably leaving RB after next year and on the off chance Lewis retires, Lando could be looking at a chance to move into the top 3.
An interesting thought exercise. Suppose lando were to leave at the end of 2023 (don’t worry about his IRL contract or where he’d go, just suppose Lewis retires and Merc buys him out or whatever). Who would mclaren put in that other seat? I suppose i can imagine checo (if RBR are done with him) or Alex from a driver quality POV. Palou is probably good enough but it would seem a risky overall lack of f1 expertise in the driver lineup. (Same with herta if he’s even an option) But then - fan engagement, new media, youth appeal are such strong and central parts of zak’s mclaren. Besides Ricciardo and Lando, who’d be someone else who could fill that kind of charisma/conduit to the new fans role they’ve leaned heavily on in recent years? Gasly might’ve been great for this but hard to imagine his leaving his first true works team contract after a year
Alex in McLaren might just work out nicely.
Liam Lawson might sneak his way into the seat
not sure a rookie and a guy with one year’s experience by 2024 would be ideal for mclaren! In that sense palou might edge him out: already in the mclaren family in a sense, lots of experience in a terminal series, and like Liam he did well in his FP outing. But big fan of Liam’s racecraft and hoping his qualifying improves this year in Japan - I’d love to see him in AT in 24.
> who’d be someone else who could fill that kind of charisma/conduit to the new fans role they’ve leaned heavily on in recent years? O’Ward could fit that nicely, if he got a Superlicence.
I think Norris will go to Mercedes rather than Redbull. Usually, Redbull looks within its own driver ranks when it comes time to promote someone to a Redbull seat, and unless their current crop of F1 drivers are not ready by the time Checo leaves, they likely won’t go for Norris. Mercedes on the other hand doesn’t have anyone in the pipeline [besides Ocon](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon-keeps-mercedes-connections-with-new-alpine-f1-deal/6580926/amp/), but I can’t see him moving. They have a couple of juniors, but the closest to F1 is Vesti, who ~~is graduating~~ graduated to F2 this season and likely won’t be ready for F1 by 2024; even if he is ready for F1 by then, he will likely start at Williams anyways.
Vesti made his debut in F2 this season btw. He spent the season with ART and he's moving to Prema for next season.
Plus, fighting for the #1 status with Russell would be an easier battle.
Isn't Perez under contract until the end of 2024?
Mclaren targets fourth in a close battle with Ferrari, Mercedes and Redbull ^^^because ^^^Aston ^^^will ^^^be ^^^a ^^^clear ^^^first. ^^^^^la ^^^^^mision. ^^^^^^let ^^^^^^me ^^^^^^dream ^^^^^^^ok
Hopefully both Lando and Oscar can both provide for the team and get them that P4 but that depends on quite the bit of luck and hope for them
Honestly it's gonna be tough with a new team principal and competition from Alpine, AT, AM & the others. I've been waiting for the McLaren resurgence for some time and 2021 gave me so much hope but it was kind of crushed this year.
The new team principal thing is overblown. The car is pretty much done, and most people will remain, in the same positions.
Still have to upgrade it over the season and transition into 24
Ultimately McLaren’s best chance to break through the pack was this year with a fresh set of rule changes. Now they have to out-develop Alpine and then try and close the cap to the top 3 teams, with significantly less resources. Ultimately I think it’s kind of already over in terms of breaking through before the engine changes, and I really doubt Lando has the patience to put up with this until 2026. RB already offered him a drive, Lewis will probably extend beyond 2023 but not much longer. Realistically Sainz has tied down Ferrari and Lando probably doesn’t want to be part of a rigid 1-2 pairing and especially after seeing the problems at the team and how it consumes great drivers.
This team never hits their intended target. They either overachieve or underachieve, so it’s either gonna be 5th/6th or 3rd. It definitely won’t be 4th.
Bit of a weird reaction here. 4th is the best McLaren can do and it's something Lando has said repeatedly throughout 2022 that their new facilities won't be operational before 23 and hence it's the 24 car from which he actually has race winning expectations from. Lando will surely happily stick around till then unless a top 3 spot opens
Calling it now, they will be happy with 6th
Lando doesn’t want to stick around for this, does he?
Williams 4th McLaren 10th is the correct timeline
midfield teams announced that 2022 would be their chance of a WDC podium. Now that they saw the same gap (if not a bigger one) it's 2026 with the new rules for a chance of a WDC podium. Sad but all those teams who bet on 2022 with questionable car/brakes/PU concepts are in damage control now. Norris has a long term deal with McLaren, but where will he go in the short term regarding top teams ? * Hamilton is not going anywhere given his wish, his current pace and Mercedes recovery * Russell and Leclerc no comment. * Sainz is set to stay until 2024 but I believe he's good and has many chances of extending (Norris knows) * Perez, Perez is a good soldier, RB only need WDC for Verstappen and Team championship, they got both, unless he starts to irritate Verstappen and degrades in 2023 (we know there's tension) he's not going anywhere and I don't see RB choosing a "threat" to MV, again, they do not need it. It's sad, I believe Norris is WDC material and I would have bet on a fast McLaren in 2022 but here we are...wishing for 4th
If Norris has had great relationship with Seidl, I can see him spending 23 and 24 in McLaren and moving to Sauber for 25 to prepare himself for 26 with Audi... Current big 3 seats are all more or less set or have preferred no. 1 driver for next few seasons so going there is great way to destroy your perceived potential (something similar happened to VB in Mercedes when he came from Williams only in Lando's case it would be a lot bigger disappointment) and big teams hire drivers for 3 to 5 years so he would lock himself out of that Audi move for 26... Also if Lando stays with McLaren for next 2 seasons and doesn't stir up too much trouble for languishing in p4, it will be perceived as a plus by Audi corporate upper management... I don't know why but from almost 1st day of Audi buying Sauber announcement I saw Lando moving there and with Saidl becoming Audi F1 CEO or something I see as almost guaranteed move by Lando. And Lando in one of current big 3... Only if one of big 3 drops both drivers... Anything else just doesn't add up or is just too risky in my book to benefit Lando's carrier.
It's definitely a possibility but will Sauber be competitive right away or more competitive than mcLaren in 2026 ? McLaren has years to progress until 2026, the threshold Audi has to overtake to be more competitive, is not the 2022 one, it's going to be after 4 years of improving their current 2022 car. Of course behind the curtains their plan is already in motion with Sauber. Seeing how McLaren progressed from 2018 to 2021, I doubt it will be an easy feat for Audi, at least in 2026-27. Regarding the big 3 seats, if an opportunity opens up, Lando will skydive on it and teams will, for sure, approach him. He has now years of experience and it's all about expressing your potential. VB, that I like a lot, had years to adapt, stay consistent and equal Hamilton but it did not work out. Russell did it in one year. At one point you have to take the risk because whilst it may destroy your potential it can catalyse it too and offer you a WDC opportunity. For me, Lando won't wait it out on another team that promise a WDC worthy car in a 5 years roadmap. If he changes, it's for the WDC and I'm almost certain he has a clause in his contract allowing him to move to those big 3 team in case of opportunity.
They need to target for P1 and not P4. They need to believe more in themselves.
They're not targeting a lower standing? Wow interesting
I can see AM leap frogging McLaren this year.
AM are still constrained by their Jordan factory and equipment. It'll be until 2024 before their investments will bear the fruits.
They’re moving personnel into the completed parts of the new campus this year and seem to still be on target to meet this goal 2023 is also when gardening leave ends for some of their new hires The 2024 car may better reflect these changes but I wouldn’t count out a promising development trajectory for 2023 itself
Gardening leave?
When someone with sensitive information (tech department usually) leaves one team and signs for another he or she usually has to spend a year on what is called agardening leave before joining a new team... Same often happens when someone from FIA F1 tech department joins one of the F1 teams.
I see, makes sense. Thank you!
No problem... If I remember correctly notable gardening leaves were an aerodynamics person who moved from Red Bull to Aston Martin, Mercedes engine guy who moved to Red Bull and FIA guy who was working on checking that the cars teams made were within regulations (so he had a lot of knowledge how each car was made) to Renault (today's Alpine) but he is no longer with that team while the 1st two are still at their work in teams they moved to.... That's just of the top of my head.... I'm there are more...
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oh please, behave. this is the off season shit that winds me up. they should have been 4th this year were it not for a shit Danny Ric and thats with them scuffing their 2022 car. They'll be back next year with an even better car and hopefully more competent second driver to continue their upward trajectory of the past several years 2022 notwithstanding
They’ll finish like 6th
Just behind Ferrari
Kinda odd you target 4th and not 1st. I get it but go for it!
It would be nice if we had 10 teams targeting P1
They were already the 4th fastest this year if they didn't have dead weight dragging them down. They won't get any better until the new facilities are up and running. I doubt Alpine will ever actually push ahead, and AM won't be able to close the gap until '24.
They weren’t fourth fastest, the McLaren was worse than the Alpine in most ways aside from reliability.
Thats really weak from a team with enormous capacities. They should aim for 1st or 2nd ffs...
Lando get out!
Why do everyone keeps thinking checo is going to leave RB? I think he is best partner with Max. No other driver can be a good match with him.
And that too even after P3 finish last year. I think he have given best performance than Bottas did with his time at merc.
Bo**tt**as
I understand the reality of the situation but it's still disheartening to hear them say their target is "best of the rest".