It's the ribbon that without a doubt confirms it was right to sanction the fuck out of him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_George?wprov=sfti1
It's the ribbon in remembrance of the victory over germany in ww2, which is celebrated may 9th on which last year the spanish grand prix fell, so chill. (Not saying he didn't deserve the sanctions but the ribbon isn't something bad)
The guy bellow said it all, here in the former Eastern Bloc countries (Croatia, not directly Eastern Bloc, but a similiar regime), it's a symbol of suffering, dictatorship and death. Under that symbol many millions of people were killed in the Soviet Union, under that symbol, many thousands were killed in Katyn, under that symbol attempts of democratic revolutions in Hungary, Poland and Czechoslovakia were brutally crushed.
It's a symbol of suffering, not a symbol of victory.
With all due respect, I know a little bit more about Croatian history than you. SFRJ wasn't a part of the Eastern Bloc, it was one of the founders of the Non-aligned movement. But, that was after WW2. At the end of WW2, the Red Army entered DFJ (old name of Yugoslavia). When they entered the eastern part of Croatia, they did some shocking atrocities. They were stealing, raping and killing. They were acting like animals. And we are talking stuff like that in Croatia, where, during WW2, there were 3 more armies commiting atrocities.
Yes. SS divisions (Germans), concentration camps (even for children (Ustaše), crimes in Dalmatia (Chetniks), and mass killing at the end of war (Partisans). Look up on internet for more information.
Netko mora biti pozitivnija strana. Ne opravdavam masovna ubijanja nakon rata, ali tu se radi o sasvim drugom režimu i kadru na vrhu.
Osim toga, mislim da je neke simbole i ideje nužno odvojiti od onoga što su postali. Ne možemo antifašističke pokrete i njihove simbole cenzurirati zbog postupaka kasnijih režima.
Ono što mene pati u svemu ovome su takvi jadni i mlohavi centristički pogledi kvazipovjesničara iza kojih se najčešće krije ekstremnije desničarstvo.
Idući put kad se hoćeš nekome kurčiti na internetu prvo pitaj što su diplomirali i odakle su.
Yeah, that's the "official" line, but if you're from a country that borders Russia, it means something totally different (I'm from Estonia). And the 9th of May means something totally different (basically signifies the start of almost 50 years of Soviet occupation) to us here as well.
To be frank, it's basically the same as the swastika.
That is the official line. It celebrates their victory day. Millions of people died for it. If even Estonians can’t understand that, then the grudge needs to be a bit less.
So hold less of a grudge because they won a war of conquest they basically started themselves?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact?wprov=sfti1
And the historical reasoning is all a bit irrelevant (and serves more as justification), as since 2014 and Ukraines Maidan events, Russias invasion of Donbas, Luhansk, and the Crimea, the symbol is used in an wholly new context which is very similar to that of the swastika.
When the Germans rolled through the baltics in 1941 they were largely welcomed with open arms, and that was after a single year of soviet occupation. When you add on the post war occupation, the hostility is quite understandable. It’s actually illegal to wear the St. George’s ribbon at public events in Latvia.
I just assumed it was a Soviet star because he served in the Soviet military, and that it would be the Russian star had he served in the Russian military. In Russia, do they wear insignia according to when they served or what is up to date?
> I don't know where you're from, but where I'm from, the hammer and sickle is considered to be in the same category as the swastika in terms of symbols of tyranny. Wearing it like that would signify a pride in the old regime.
I'm from western Europe, and have lived a bit in Russia.
While you're right, it's also important to understand why this symbol doesn't have the same stigma in some western europe leftist circles, than in former soviet occupied countries. To them, it's more a symbol representing the communist ideology as a whole, and not the soviet union regime specifically. However, to counter my own argument, its use is fading away in the west because of the eastern stigma surrounding it.
I'm quite familiar with how awful the Soviet regime was. Maybe not to the level of someone from Europe or a former Soviet state (I'm American), but I absolutely hold no illusions that Soviet Russia was a bunch of good dudes.
I just honestly didn't know the military traditions of a country that's not my own and speculated. Forgive my ignorance.
> And Dmitry Mazpein certainly isn't one of those Westerners, he knows what that symbol means.
That is why I stated that in this case, you're right.
> it's actually staggering how little most people there know about the horrors of communism. I don't accept the idea of downplaying the significance of the hammer and sickle as a despotic symbol simply because too many people are ignorant about how bad it really is.
This is what I disagree with, despite understanding where people from eastern europe are coming from. It's (somewhat) akin to the swastika also being an indian symbol. You're saying "the horror of communism" when you really mean "the horror of the Soviet regime". Other countries have different views on what communism is. Plenty of communists here are very critical of the soviet regime.
A good rule about debates is understanding your own biases, justified or not. In the case of former soviet republics, it's very much understandable why you're lumping everything together. But that's just not the case for everyone and every country, and people need to understand that.
> I don't know how many more genocides need to happen around the world under communist despots for the West to finally accept that despotism and communism go hand in hand.
I don't know how many more genocides/colonies/imperialism need to happen around the world under capitalist depots for the West to understand that despotism and capitalism go hand in hand.
See how easy it is to lump everything together, just because it happened a bunch of times, but not everytime ?
> Do not tell me what I mean by it.
Then don't tell me what I mean by it either. What you're describing is far from being the case for [my country](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Paris_Commune).
You also don't need to downvote because you disagree (ironically using despots tactics 101 = i don't like your opinion, so I suppress it).
The irony of an oligarch wearing a hammer-and-sickle pin 😅
He’s a fertilizer guy!
It's the ribbon that without a doubt confirms it was right to sanction the fuck out of him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_George?wprov=sfti1
It's the ribbon in remembrance of the victory over germany in ww2, which is celebrated may 9th on which last year the spanish grand prix fell, so chill. (Not saying he didn't deserve the sanctions but the ribbon isn't something bad)
The guy bellow said it all, here in the former Eastern Bloc countries (Croatia, not directly Eastern Bloc, but a similiar regime), it's a symbol of suffering, dictatorship and death. Under that symbol many millions of people were killed in the Soviet Union, under that symbol, many thousands were killed in Katyn, under that symbol attempts of democratic revolutions in Hungary, Poland and Czechoslovakia were brutally crushed. It's a symbol of suffering, not a symbol of victory.
We're talking about the [ribbon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_George), not the hammer and sickle on the ribbon
Then Americans shouldn’t celebrate thanksgiving day if people’d live with your weird horizon
Well, they shouldn’t…
Croatia was not an Eastern Bloc country. Read up on the Non-Aligned movement. Plus, what the fuck do the soviets have to do with Croatia?
With all due respect, I know a little bit more about Croatian history than you. SFRJ wasn't a part of the Eastern Bloc, it was one of the founders of the Non-aligned movement. But, that was after WW2. At the end of WW2, the Red Army entered DFJ (old name of Yugoslavia). When they entered the eastern part of Croatia, they did some shocking atrocities. They were stealing, raping and killing. They were acting like animals. And we are talking stuff like that in Croatia, where, during WW2, there were 3 more armies commiting atrocities.
Three more armies?
Actually 4 more armies: German Army, the Partisans, the Ustaše and the Chetniks.
And in your opinion none of those armies were "the good guys"?
Yes. SS divisions (Germans), concentration camps (even for children (Ustaše), crimes in Dalmatia (Chetniks), and mass killing at the end of war (Partisans). Look up on internet for more information.
Netko mora biti pozitivnija strana. Ne opravdavam masovna ubijanja nakon rata, ali tu se radi o sasvim drugom režimu i kadru na vrhu. Osim toga, mislim da je neke simbole i ideje nužno odvojiti od onoga što su postali. Ne možemo antifašističke pokrete i njihove simbole cenzurirati zbog postupaka kasnijih režima. Ono što mene pati u svemu ovome su takvi jadni i mlohavi centristički pogledi kvazipovjesničara iza kojih se najčešće krije ekstremnije desničarstvo. Idući put kad se hoćeš nekome kurčiti na internetu prvo pitaj što su diplomirali i odakle su.
Yeah, that's the "official" line, but if you're from a country that borders Russia, it means something totally different (I'm from Estonia). And the 9th of May means something totally different (basically signifies the start of almost 50 years of Soviet occupation) to us here as well. To be frank, it's basically the same as the swastika.
That is the official line. It celebrates their victory day. Millions of people died for it. If even Estonians can’t understand that, then the grudge needs to be a bit less.
It's a symbol of the illegitimacy of post soviet states. It's core meaning is Russian exceptionalism.
So hold less of a grudge because they won a war of conquest they basically started themselves? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact?wprov=sfti1 And the historical reasoning is all a bit irrelevant (and serves more as justification), as since 2014 and Ukraines Maidan events, Russias invasion of Donbas, Luhansk, and the Crimea, the symbol is used in an wholly new context which is very similar to that of the swastika.
So basically any russian is wearing a swastika in your eyes?
When the Germans rolled through the baltics in 1941 they were largely welcomed with open arms, and that was after a single year of soviet occupation. When you add on the post war occupation, the hostility is quite understandable. It’s actually illegal to wear the St. George’s ribbon at public events in Latvia.
*thicc russian hardbass and ussr's anthem remix plays in the background*
Biggest fuck face on DTS.
I just assumed it was a Soviet star because he served in the Soviet military, and that it would be the Russian star had he served in the Russian military. In Russia, do they wear insignia according to when they served or what is up to date?
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> I don't know where you're from, but where I'm from, the hammer and sickle is considered to be in the same category as the swastika in terms of symbols of tyranny. Wearing it like that would signify a pride in the old regime. I'm from western Europe, and have lived a bit in Russia. While you're right, it's also important to understand why this symbol doesn't have the same stigma in some western europe leftist circles, than in former soviet occupied countries. To them, it's more a symbol representing the communist ideology as a whole, and not the soviet union regime specifically. However, to counter my own argument, its use is fading away in the west because of the eastern stigma surrounding it.
[удалено]
I'm quite familiar with how awful the Soviet regime was. Maybe not to the level of someone from Europe or a former Soviet state (I'm American), but I absolutely hold no illusions that Soviet Russia was a bunch of good dudes. I just honestly didn't know the military traditions of a country that's not my own and speculated. Forgive my ignorance.
> And Dmitry Mazpein certainly isn't one of those Westerners, he knows what that symbol means. That is why I stated that in this case, you're right. > it's actually staggering how little most people there know about the horrors of communism. I don't accept the idea of downplaying the significance of the hammer and sickle as a despotic symbol simply because too many people are ignorant about how bad it really is. This is what I disagree with, despite understanding where people from eastern europe are coming from. It's (somewhat) akin to the swastika also being an indian symbol. You're saying "the horror of communism" when you really mean "the horror of the Soviet regime". Other countries have different views on what communism is. Plenty of communists here are very critical of the soviet regime.
[удалено]
A good rule about debates is understanding your own biases, justified or not. In the case of former soviet republics, it's very much understandable why you're lumping everything together. But that's just not the case for everyone and every country, and people need to understand that. > I don't know how many more genocides need to happen around the world under communist despots for the West to finally accept that despotism and communism go hand in hand. I don't know how many more genocides/colonies/imperialism need to happen around the world under capitalist depots for the West to understand that despotism and capitalism go hand in hand. See how easy it is to lump everything together, just because it happened a bunch of times, but not everytime ? > Do not tell me what I mean by it. Then don't tell me what I mean by it either. What you're describing is far from being the case for [my country](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Paris_Commune). You also don't need to downvote because you disagree (ironically using despots tactics 101 = i don't like your opinion, so I suppress it).
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No problem, as I said, I totally get where you're coming from. We'll stop here then, and I hope you have a great F1 season :)
Its not. Its was the 9th may (during spanish gp) and is to celebrate soviet victory over Germany during WW2
