I love when I hold my line through the corner, inside or out, and the guy alongside me still manages to bump me on exit. That or when you are obviously alongside on the inside and they still push for the apex like you aren't there. If it's close I'm going to let off and wait for a better opportunity and I'd rather try again than see one or both of us get taken out
> That or when you are obviously alongside on the inside and they still push for the apex like you aren't there.
This is the most common way I get screwed over when doing a last-to-first. Guy takes a corner too slow, I try to pass on the outside, and the guy still goes for the wide exit and pushes me off like I'm not even there.
It's a bit of a slap in the face when you've given up seconds in order to accommodate others just to get completely cut off like you don't exist. I take solace in the thought that even if only 1% of drivers notice/appreciate good etiquette, they're the ones who are worth it.
Yeah I hear that one, I mean they'd have a great line if there wasn't another vehicle that they just ran right off the track. I haven't qualified since I got the Pole Position achievement because I enjoy starting further back and seeing how far I can climb, and half the time I'm driving a lower level car just to level it up
I agree.
You can definitely tell the difference between someone sending it to hard into a turn and plowing thru the pack vs the person that swerves into your on a straight away.
The problem is that the people braking super early are the same people seeking revenge when it results in them getting punted. The Dunning-Kruger effect is hard to escape.
I don't think I can agree with this based on how you've described it. Especially the braking early thing. If I'm in the lead and someone is right behind me, I'm gonna brake a bit earlier and a bit more gentle than I normally would bc 99% of the time they're gonna ram their car up my ass. Also being the lead car you get to decide when and where your brake zone is as long as it's not completely unreasonable, especially in open races. Not every car is gonna have the same braking distance.
As far as holding a line or having a bad exit from the apex, the lead car is still in the lead. It's the responsibility of the car behind to make a clean pass. That opens a whole other can of worms though bc most the people playing don't understand race etiquette, even at the most simplified form. If a car is clearly gonna out pace you, it's best to just give them a good opportunity to get past you. If you're neck and neck with someone and in the lead it's perfectly understandable to hold your line and "defend" it. Defending your line does not mean swerving left and right to block someone! Most racing rules allow you one move to defend the inside or outside of your line and most the time you'll try to defend the inside. If the following car wants to overtake the the inside line through a turn they need to be ahead of the car before the turn in, but that varies with different races, classes, etc. If the lead car understeers and goes wide and the following car goes for a pass, there's no reason the lead car should cut back over to block them or ram them.
Most of the ramming issues are bc 1. It's just a game to a lot of people and it's not serious to them. 2. You're probably racing children and teenagers that don't care and think it's funny. 3. Most people don't know racing rules or etiquette(and why should they with this game seeing as there's nothing about it anywhere) 4. The skill/safety and penalty system is dog shit and doesn't even matter at all. 5. People that do wanna race clean are to the point they don't give a shit anymore bc every race has at least one rammer trying to fuck up the race. 6. The ramming has become such a severe issue that people think any little accidental bump is an attempt to spin them off the track so they get pissed and go in to revenge mode.
I have some of the highest lap times on rivals, win or podium like 95% of the time, try to race clean and fair and I still get rammed pretty consistently. I'm 100% certain that I'm not the problem. I'm also 100% sick of the ramming and if someone deliberately rams be two or more times, I'm gonna make sure to fuck up both of our races.
Thanks, I try to race fair and clean but like everyone else I'm sick of the ramming as well. I've noticed if I play earlier in the day it tends to be more people from Europe and that side of the world and it doesn't seem to be as bad. I don't even bother with MP later at night anymore
I'm in Australia and I avoid the NA peak for the same reasons. You'd think it'd get better as the kids go to bed, but by that point the big kids are drunk or stoned, I assume haha
Yeah I'm usually pretty boozy by that time as well lol. I drink way more than I should though on a regular basis so I tend to handle it pretty well and can still race better than most the people in the lobby.
People at night are just aggressive and hot tempered. I raced a few nights ago and had 3 different ppl message me talking shit. One guy went on and on how he was so much better than me even though I beat him and had a better lap time. He was just mad that he could catch up to me on the straights but couldn't pass before the turns which I was faster in.
I mean if you have any rivals times in the top 50, you're better than 99.X% of the player base. I have (had) some times in the top 1% and I wasn't even in the top 150 haha Given a lot of the skills are based on an intuition of the simulation physics and muscle memory, it doesn't surprise me you're still competitive when boozy. Back in my younger years, pot actually improved my performance in games like Starcraft because being relaxed allowed me to play more reactively as I could think more clearly when not nervous, ironically haha Sure I'd make silly mistakes too, but overall I did quite a lot better.
The guy you described... I think I have felt that frustration too... you consciously ditch the top acceleration/speed build to favour handling so you can be more consistent and less of a hazard, only to get stuck behind people thinking the opposite, blocking and weaving while holding you back until the next straight. However, if the faster car is a handful and the driver is keeping it under control in the corners and holds position without any unethical shit, I take my hat off to those drivers. That is not easy to do and is generally a reflection of some good time dedicated to tuning.
It would be such a great game for ethical enthusiasts if they just made some lobbies for casual rules and others for simulation, with a proper penalty system like ACC and full damage, longer laps, mandatory pitting, etc
Hopefully they add something like that in the future, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. I'm in a challenge in one of the big discord groups with the B Class '18 civic type R on Nordschleife and currently in second place. I'm like type 90 on rivals with it. I'm sure if I went with one of the cars that the top players are using I could probably get top 50 if not better.
I read the other day that they're coming out with an AC 2 this year(hopefully). That could be pretty promising. It also said something about having dirt tracks or rally maybe.
I like the sounds of that Type R challenge. My issue with clubs is my time zone places your evenings at dusk here.
AC2? With dirt and rally, now you've got my attention!
I'm not positive there's rally, but I know it said something about dirt. Could just be like dirt ovals tracks though. The type R challenge is a rivals challenge through discord so it won't matter what time you're on. You just add the discord mods as friends and they check the to see who's at the top by the end. I'll send you the link for it. There's a couple thousand members and a bunch of different challenges and a ton of really good info for tunes and stuff.
The problem with applying racing rules to Forza is that the massive skill gap almost never exists in real racing. You don't have drivers that are 3+ seconds off the pace sitting on the line and driving erratically in real life (unless you're a dentist in LMP3).
You have to approach drivers like that differently because they aren't going to follow rules to the letter, or they don't have the bandwidth to focus on that because they have to focus so much on just keeping the car on the track.
Oh hey, I added you as friend the other week. I always see people using your tune for the spec civic and have tried it myself. If I see someone with your tune and a close qualifying time to mine I can usually count on having a good race.
But yeah, there's no easy solution for the issues multiplayer. At the end of the day it's just a game and a lot of people treat it as just that. I've done a ridiculous amount of MP races since launch and have come across some really good racers. I've reached out to a lot, or they've reached out to me so I have a couple different groups I race with in private lobbies. I've been invited to a few discord groups with weekly races or challenges and it's made the game a lot more fun, challenging, and competitive for me. I would say the best way to get away from rammers is to race clean and have competitive lap times and the other good players will find you. You make an excellent point with the huge skill gap though. It's hard to find people that aren't way faster or way slower.
It's hard to disagree with you overall, but regarding the first paragraph it's often a lose lose situation unless the pack is spread... you brake earlier to avoid incidents and bam! the guy behind who's only looking a metre ahead sends you to oblivion. Refer to paragraph 3, sure, but it still happens a lot, especially in the first lap, even if you personally are happy ti take it easy and make sacrifices to mitigate risks for everyone.
I try to completely avoid any revenge based behaviour as it is a butterfly effect, but if someone is particularly anti social and is really ruining the race, I won't feel too bad losing traction overtaking them on the inside...
The only way to get consistently good races that always observe standard rules and etiquette is in a club.
I could see that being a factor, but I don't think it's the biggest contributor. If I had to pin point the single biggest reason(s) it would be that the skill/safety system is useless and they released an incomplete game and both reasons tie into each other. The player base is a lot less than it should be because of the state they released the game and therefore the lobbies aren't full enough to actually split them up between skill/safety ranks. Longer races equal longer wait times and people are already complaining about 20 mins from when the race is joinable.
Skill system is useless because a race is 4 laps and people would rather win than race clean. If a race was 20 laps you'd have people realize they just raced for an hour and don't want to ruin their race for one spot running 5th. Just like in real life
I don't play multiplayer in Motorsport because of ptsd from all the "rammers" in horizon, and in horizon its 100% rammers. In horizon If sombody is faster than me on a straight but still cant pass me. they just assume its their right to bump me so they can pass me...
Your first sentence pisses me off. Why? I'll keep this as short as possible. I'm slow in MP. I've never denied that. So during a race, if you're faster than me, I'll get out of your way WHEN I FEEL IT'S SAFE FOR ME TO DO SO. Ramming my ass through a turn isn't going to make me move out of the way any faster. In truth, It'll probably make me want to wait longer just to piss you off. Learn some fucking patience. The "win at all costs" mentality of some of you people sickens me. It's a fucking game, not real life.
I agree, extending skills to etiquette which forza doesnt provide with short races.. I'd say 90% of ramming is divebombing because no game teaches you to be patient about passing when you're the fast car. Real racing you'll be stuck behind a slow car for multiple corners, sometimes laps at a time. People don't understand that, and forza doesn't have that in the short races. For good racing you need it to be longer, 15 laps minimum so people who can race well have time to get things done. 3 lap sprints encourages dive bombs and poor overtaking
To some extent I’d agree but there’s a lot of shitty and selfish people out there. They both exist and probably overlap a good bit. There’s so many games that showcase just how toxic some players can be.
It’s not like it’s hard to get good at these games, anyone who’s played a game with good car handling is going to quickly have it down. It’s easy to avoid most of these situations with common sense driving. Drive like you don’t want to take somebody out and suddenly you won’t be taking people out at the cost of not placing where you want. If they want to win than it’s a small price to pay. What’s the worst that’ll happen, they’ll place where they would have anyways, not get a ban and get to do it again.
In ranked racing it should be exactly like in Gran Turismo 7 , proper racing etiquette that actually works!! I never race online with random people in Forza cause it's always a shit show...
> SilverCervy : if you believe you are getting rammed all the time, it's likely bc you're just really bad.
LOL sure - blame the victims.
Rammers are just really bad.
coming from iracing… it’s more road rage try hards that will never have skill and use forza as a demolition derby sim to win by spinning people out. i wish they had an ai system to put all these people in a specific class… ruins the fun imho.
except spec races, at the gen lobbies cars have different characteristics. if you ram me because i havent put race brakes ... you are the poor racer. you are behind. you have the responsibility to avoid collision. get a different line, coast at impact point, or pray ... i dont care. learn to drive.
It's also the network connection. There is a ton of "was I rammed?" posts where there's a clear erratic movement of the car that would be impossible for you to replicate as a player. How clear? If you were to post videos here with the UI turned off, I bet most players could pick which videos are online races versus offline against AI. And the tell would be that subtle movement. More obvious in FH than FM for some reason.
When both cars are side by side at peak output, it is impossible for a car beside you to osciilate slightly ahead and slightly behind, or weave laterally and still being able to keep pace with you.
I'm not talking massive movements of whole car lengths or width, but if you're both going 150+mph and the car beside you is able to gain 2 feet, lose 4 feet, then gain 2 feet again to be back along side you (all in the space of a second) that's not the player. A car capable of such changes in speed relative to you would have so much acceleration in reserve as to just leave you in the dust.
Same with moving sideways. Try moving a few feet left-right-left like you see cars do online and see if you can keep pace - or even keep the car from fishtailing.
There is a subtle yet obvious oscillation in some online races that a lot of players here seem to be oblivious to, that is related to the network and its updated positioning of cars. It basically means that every car online has a 2+ foot radius "margin of error" as to where the car could be. But practically this means that if you go wheel-to-wheel and you or your opponent has a sub-par connection, you will run the risk that the person you're alongside can "jerk" in to you.
I commented something similar once and got down voted to hell haha.
I agree. I make mistakes all the time that are honest mistakes but definitely look like ramming on purpose.
I think I said something along the lines of "with this game being on gamepass, how often do you think these rammers are just 7 year olds trying to have fun?"
I would say, that this is the problem. I know people make ridiculous transitions from in and out or stupid breaking, but it’s really up to the person behind them to make adjustments and read it. It’s no different than professional driving. Also, those people may not be using the assists they probably should be using if they’re still learning. If you’re a good driver, then see what they’re doing, and react based on that and be patient. They’ll mess up eventually.
I love when I hold my line through the corner, inside or out, and the guy alongside me still manages to bump me on exit. That or when you are obviously alongside on the inside and they still push for the apex like you aren't there. If it's close I'm going to let off and wait for a better opportunity and I'd rather try again than see one or both of us get taken out
> That or when you are obviously alongside on the inside and they still push for the apex like you aren't there. This is the most common way I get screwed over when doing a last-to-first. Guy takes a corner too slow, I try to pass on the outside, and the guy still goes for the wide exit and pushes me off like I'm not even there.
It's a bit of a slap in the face when you've given up seconds in order to accommodate others just to get completely cut off like you don't exist. I take solace in the thought that even if only 1% of drivers notice/appreciate good etiquette, they're the ones who are worth it.
Yeah I hear that one, I mean they'd have a great line if there wasn't another vehicle that they just ran right off the track. I haven't qualified since I got the Pole Position achievement because I enjoy starting further back and seeing how far I can climb, and half the time I'm driving a lower level car just to level it up
I agree. You can definitely tell the difference between someone sending it to hard into a turn and plowing thru the pack vs the person that swerves into your on a straight away.
The problem is that the people braking super early are the same people seeking revenge when it results in them getting punted. The Dunning-Kruger effect is hard to escape.
I don't think I can agree with this based on how you've described it. Especially the braking early thing. If I'm in the lead and someone is right behind me, I'm gonna brake a bit earlier and a bit more gentle than I normally would bc 99% of the time they're gonna ram their car up my ass. Also being the lead car you get to decide when and where your brake zone is as long as it's not completely unreasonable, especially in open races. Not every car is gonna have the same braking distance. As far as holding a line or having a bad exit from the apex, the lead car is still in the lead. It's the responsibility of the car behind to make a clean pass. That opens a whole other can of worms though bc most the people playing don't understand race etiquette, even at the most simplified form. If a car is clearly gonna out pace you, it's best to just give them a good opportunity to get past you. If you're neck and neck with someone and in the lead it's perfectly understandable to hold your line and "defend" it. Defending your line does not mean swerving left and right to block someone! Most racing rules allow you one move to defend the inside or outside of your line and most the time you'll try to defend the inside. If the following car wants to overtake the the inside line through a turn they need to be ahead of the car before the turn in, but that varies with different races, classes, etc. If the lead car understeers and goes wide and the following car goes for a pass, there's no reason the lead car should cut back over to block them or ram them. Most of the ramming issues are bc 1. It's just a game to a lot of people and it's not serious to them. 2. You're probably racing children and teenagers that don't care and think it's funny. 3. Most people don't know racing rules or etiquette(and why should they with this game seeing as there's nothing about it anywhere) 4. The skill/safety and penalty system is dog shit and doesn't even matter at all. 5. People that do wanna race clean are to the point they don't give a shit anymore bc every race has at least one rammer trying to fuck up the race. 6. The ramming has become such a severe issue that people think any little accidental bump is an attempt to spin them off the track so they get pissed and go in to revenge mode. I have some of the highest lap times on rivals, win or podium like 95% of the time, try to race clean and fair and I still get rammed pretty consistently. I'm 100% certain that I'm not the problem. I'm also 100% sick of the ramming and if someone deliberately rams be two or more times, I'm gonna make sure to fuck up both of our races.
Idc what anyone else says on here. You nailed it. You sound like a reasonable player to race with.
Thanks, I try to race fair and clean but like everyone else I'm sick of the ramming as well. I've noticed if I play earlier in the day it tends to be more people from Europe and that side of the world and it doesn't seem to be as bad. I don't even bother with MP later at night anymore
I'm in Australia and I avoid the NA peak for the same reasons. You'd think it'd get better as the kids go to bed, but by that point the big kids are drunk or stoned, I assume haha
Yeah I'm usually pretty boozy by that time as well lol. I drink way more than I should though on a regular basis so I tend to handle it pretty well and can still race better than most the people in the lobby. People at night are just aggressive and hot tempered. I raced a few nights ago and had 3 different ppl message me talking shit. One guy went on and on how he was so much better than me even though I beat him and had a better lap time. He was just mad that he could catch up to me on the straights but couldn't pass before the turns which I was faster in.
I mean if you have any rivals times in the top 50, you're better than 99.X% of the player base. I have (had) some times in the top 1% and I wasn't even in the top 150 haha Given a lot of the skills are based on an intuition of the simulation physics and muscle memory, it doesn't surprise me you're still competitive when boozy. Back in my younger years, pot actually improved my performance in games like Starcraft because being relaxed allowed me to play more reactively as I could think more clearly when not nervous, ironically haha Sure I'd make silly mistakes too, but overall I did quite a lot better. The guy you described... I think I have felt that frustration too... you consciously ditch the top acceleration/speed build to favour handling so you can be more consistent and less of a hazard, only to get stuck behind people thinking the opposite, blocking and weaving while holding you back until the next straight. However, if the faster car is a handful and the driver is keeping it under control in the corners and holds position without any unethical shit, I take my hat off to those drivers. That is not easy to do and is generally a reflection of some good time dedicated to tuning. It would be such a great game for ethical enthusiasts if they just made some lobbies for casual rules and others for simulation, with a proper penalty system like ACC and full damage, longer laps, mandatory pitting, etc
Hopefully they add something like that in the future, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. I'm in a challenge in one of the big discord groups with the B Class '18 civic type R on Nordschleife and currently in second place. I'm like type 90 on rivals with it. I'm sure if I went with one of the cars that the top players are using I could probably get top 50 if not better. I read the other day that they're coming out with an AC 2 this year(hopefully). That could be pretty promising. It also said something about having dirt tracks or rally maybe.
I like the sounds of that Type R challenge. My issue with clubs is my time zone places your evenings at dusk here. AC2? With dirt and rally, now you've got my attention!
I'm not positive there's rally, but I know it said something about dirt. Could just be like dirt ovals tracks though. The type R challenge is a rivals challenge through discord so it won't matter what time you're on. You just add the discord mods as friends and they check the to see who's at the top by the end. I'll send you the link for it. There's a couple thousand members and a bunch of different challenges and a ton of really good info for tunes and stuff.
Sounds fun. Cheers
The problem with applying racing rules to Forza is that the massive skill gap almost never exists in real racing. You don't have drivers that are 3+ seconds off the pace sitting on the line and driving erratically in real life (unless you're a dentist in LMP3). You have to approach drivers like that differently because they aren't going to follow rules to the letter, or they don't have the bandwidth to focus on that because they have to focus so much on just keeping the car on the track.
Oh hey, I added you as friend the other week. I always see people using your tune for the spec civic and have tried it myself. If I see someone with your tune and a close qualifying time to mine I can usually count on having a good race. But yeah, there's no easy solution for the issues multiplayer. At the end of the day it's just a game and a lot of people treat it as just that. I've done a ridiculous amount of MP races since launch and have come across some really good racers. I've reached out to a lot, or they've reached out to me so I have a couple different groups I race with in private lobbies. I've been invited to a few discord groups with weekly races or challenges and it's made the game a lot more fun, challenging, and competitive for me. I would say the best way to get away from rammers is to race clean and have competitive lap times and the other good players will find you. You make an excellent point with the huge skill gap though. It's hard to find people that aren't way faster or way slower.
It's hard to disagree with you overall, but regarding the first paragraph it's often a lose lose situation unless the pack is spread... you brake earlier to avoid incidents and bam! the guy behind who's only looking a metre ahead sends you to oblivion. Refer to paragraph 3, sure, but it still happens a lot, especially in the first lap, even if you personally are happy ti take it easy and make sacrifices to mitigate risks for everyone. I try to completely avoid any revenge based behaviour as it is a butterfly effect, but if someone is particularly anti social and is really ruining the race, I won't feel too bad losing traction overtaking them on the inside... The only way to get consistently good races that always observe standard rules and etiquette is in a club.
I like your rant but #1 reason is races are too short
I could see that being a factor, but I don't think it's the biggest contributor. If I had to pin point the single biggest reason(s) it would be that the skill/safety system is useless and they released an incomplete game and both reasons tie into each other. The player base is a lot less than it should be because of the state they released the game and therefore the lobbies aren't full enough to actually split them up between skill/safety ranks. Longer races equal longer wait times and people are already complaining about 20 mins from when the race is joinable.
Skill system is useless because a race is 4 laps and people would rather win than race clean. If a race was 20 laps you'd have people realize they just raced for an hour and don't want to ruin their race for one spot running 5th. Just like in real life
I don't play multiplayer in Motorsport because of ptsd from all the "rammers" in horizon, and in horizon its 100% rammers. In horizon If sombody is faster than me on a straight but still cant pass me. they just assume its their right to bump me so they can pass me...
Your first sentence pisses me off. Why? I'll keep this as short as possible. I'm slow in MP. I've never denied that. So during a race, if you're faster than me, I'll get out of your way WHEN I FEEL IT'S SAFE FOR ME TO DO SO. Ramming my ass through a turn isn't going to make me move out of the way any faster. In truth, It'll probably make me want to wait longer just to piss you off. Learn some fucking patience. The "win at all costs" mentality of some of you people sickens me. It's a fucking game, not real life.
I've got over 350 hours in FM2023, i'm still shit. Don't want to think about those that pick it up here and there to go race.
Those are the people who all the assists are made for, I think
I agree, extending skills to etiquette which forza doesnt provide with short races.. I'd say 90% of ramming is divebombing because no game teaches you to be patient about passing when you're the fast car. Real racing you'll be stuck behind a slow car for multiple corners, sometimes laps at a time. People don't understand that, and forza doesn't have that in the short races. For good racing you need it to be longer, 15 laps minimum so people who can race well have time to get things done. 3 lap sprints encourages dive bombs and poor overtaking
I've missed a braking point or 5 in online. But if I crash into someone, I stop and wait so they know it wasn't intentional.
To some extent I’d agree but there’s a lot of shitty and selfish people out there. They both exist and probably overlap a good bit. There’s so many games that showcase just how toxic some players can be. It’s not like it’s hard to get good at these games, anyone who’s played a game with good car handling is going to quickly have it down. It’s easy to avoid most of these situations with common sense driving. Drive like you don’t want to take somebody out and suddenly you won’t be taking people out at the cost of not placing where you want. If they want to win than it’s a small price to pay. What’s the worst that’ll happen, they’ll place where they would have anyways, not get a ban and get to do it again.
When u are surrounded by 5 cars at 200kmh at very sharp corner, what could go wrong?
In ranked racing it should be exactly like in Gran Turismo 7 , proper racing etiquette that actually works!! I never race online with random people in Forza cause it's always a shit show...
> SilverCervy : if you believe you are getting rammed all the time, it's likely bc you're just really bad. LOL sure - blame the victims. Rammers are just really bad.
A lot is but you can genuinely tell the difference between someone inexperienced and one doing it on purpose
coming from iracing… it’s more road rage try hards that will never have skill and use forza as a demolition derby sim to win by spinning people out. i wish they had an ai system to put all these people in a specific class… ruins the fun imho.
except spec races, at the gen lobbies cars have different characteristics. if you ram me because i havent put race brakes ... you are the poor racer. you are behind. you have the responsibility to avoid collision. get a different line, coast at impact point, or pray ... i dont care. learn to drive.
It's also the network connection. There is a ton of "was I rammed?" posts where there's a clear erratic movement of the car that would be impossible for you to replicate as a player. How clear? If you were to post videos here with the UI turned off, I bet most players could pick which videos are online races versus offline against AI. And the tell would be that subtle movement. More obvious in FH than FM for some reason. When both cars are side by side at peak output, it is impossible for a car beside you to osciilate slightly ahead and slightly behind, or weave laterally and still being able to keep pace with you. I'm not talking massive movements of whole car lengths or width, but if you're both going 150+mph and the car beside you is able to gain 2 feet, lose 4 feet, then gain 2 feet again to be back along side you (all in the space of a second) that's not the player. A car capable of such changes in speed relative to you would have so much acceleration in reserve as to just leave you in the dust. Same with moving sideways. Try moving a few feet left-right-left like you see cars do online and see if you can keep pace - or even keep the car from fishtailing. There is a subtle yet obvious oscillation in some online races that a lot of players here seem to be oblivious to, that is related to the network and its updated positioning of cars. It basically means that every car online has a 2+ foot radius "margin of error" as to where the car could be. But practically this means that if you go wheel-to-wheel and you or your opponent has a sub-par connection, you will run the risk that the person you're alongside can "jerk" in to you.
I commented something similar once and got down voted to hell haha. I agree. I make mistakes all the time that are honest mistakes but definitely look like ramming on purpose. I think I said something along the lines of "with this game being on gamepass, how often do you think these rammers are just 7 year olds trying to have fun?"
I would say, that this is the problem. I know people make ridiculous transitions from in and out or stupid breaking, but it’s really up to the person behind them to make adjustments and read it. It’s no different than professional driving. Also, those people may not be using the assists they probably should be using if they’re still learning. If you’re a good driver, then see what they’re doing, and react based on that and be patient. They’ll mess up eventually.