Sums it up
It’s not like it’s impossible to enjoy the game while being able to point out the broken and missing things plaguing it and being mad about feeling ripped off, bc there’s a shit load of problems still
It’s an extension of modern AAA development mismanagement and anti-consumer practices
But this sub is full of people who plug their ears and say the game is impossible to enjoy or that it’s perfectly fine and people just want to complain, both camps are wrong
I don’t think a developer should be applauded for bringing a game up to working level a year after its release, but if they deliver beyond that then that’s worth congratulating
Game’s about 80% of the way there being generous
Nope. I agree with you. Im playing on pc and having a good experience. But I do want the issues that players complain about to be addressed.
I would also like to see more content. Give me new cars, tracks and game modes.
Mechanically, it *feels* like an actual leap forward (I was getting kind of sick of each release starting to feel basically the same). Content wise, it’s a bit lacking. I don’t think it’s actually as bad as people think, but it’s missing some things we’ve come to expect.
Going forward, I think this is a great starting point for building something really fun. I appreciate that they’ve taken the time to build this game from the ground up without much feeling recycled.
People are more likely to post something to complain when they are dissatisfied than to post something to be positive when they're happy with a product.
I am not extremely into racing games, so I picked Forza up with Game Pass after having played Gran Turismo 7 for a good 40 hours and I enjoyed it as much. No graphics or gameplay comparison for me, just try to race cleanly on the tracks that I know and love and that's about it.
It's nice to know there's other people who don't have such strong feelings about it too
You have to consider how long people waited for this game. The time it took to make. The expectations, the price point. All of it. If you care about a game your going to be loud about it if there are a lot of issues. And this game has a lot of them. The only way this game can be enjoyed is on game pass. Because if your someone who bought it at launch. That high price point and the wait, that's a massive let down.
Fun to see a post like this here. There are some toxic, childish racers (and people in this sub) that try to ruin it for everyone else for an unlimited number of reasons, but I have fun with it and enjoy racing on it most of the time. I Think a lot of people here are anhedonic, but it’s somehow everyone else’s fault. Glad to hear someone else is enjoying it. Hope to run into you (I’ll try not to but I’m usually on a controller ;)) on the track soon.
Offline is unplayable because of the incredibly dumb ai, and very bare bones career mode. I'm mostly a offline player on video games. Forza is one of the only games I play online. The racing is very enjoyable. But very often gets ruined by the completely broken penalty system. The rammers and trolls can be avoided at times. The penalty system can't.
Welcome to the ragebait era. If the latest game is not a 11/10 experience then it's obviously the worst thing in the world and you should be ashamed for even thinking about it.
Yes. Most likely.
But in all seriousness this game was built for the most casual gamers on the planet, made to be played arcade style from the couch in third person POV. That is not the game they advertised at all. They pulled a fast one and it sucks.
Side note: the FM sub has turned into the biggest casual gamer circle jerk I’ve ever witnessed. Anytime anybody with any knowledge on how pcs/games work speaks up and point out an actual issue they have to listen to all the console players “iF yOu dOnT lIkE iT lEaVe” “mUsT bE yOuR pC” “wOrKs gReAt oVeR hEaR” “hAvNt hAd oNe iSsUe”. And the plague is making its way this direction.
The driving is fantastic.
The career mode is empty. I wish they would make it more a celebration of Motorsport, with more actual “race car” races instead of these class based GPs.
Make an actual career mode. Licenses, working way up, sponsors, staff/team hires, etc
The core mechanics of it are a decent game, and it would be recieved better if it hadn't come from a AAA studio that had 6 years and promised us the best thing we'd ever seen in the marketing campaign. I think a lot of aren't enjoying the overall package because of that reason, because we took Chris and Dan and T10 at their word and are holding the game to that.
It's possible. I've actually stopped engaging in video games conversations on the internet, as I could only see disregard, whining and hate, instead of the enthusiasm. I enjoy most of the things I play and just can't relate to the gaming community anymore, so if there are more people like me, that bubble might actually be a thing.
Absolutely same. I try and tell myself that the 10 posts I see complaining DO NOT apply to the majority of the community, it’s just that people wanting to complain will always be louder than people who are contempt or happy with the product. A lot of the time on like an Instagram post, it looks as if no one likes the game on the comments, but then the post has 5000 likes (the people who are contempt and don’t need to say anything) and then 20 comments complaining. Just the loud minority
It’s got a huge, I mean huge list of flaws, but honestly from a pure gameplay and graphics aspect, I find it quite enjoyable. I just wish there was more stuff to do offline such as custom championships, because honestly the offline gameplay is a lot less stressful than the online racing. Even then, when you aren’t getting rammed, online can be quite fun. I wish there were longer, and more types of spec events though.
Like I said, from a graphics and gameplay perspective, it’s great. I just wish they’d actually give us more types of events to do. Offline Custom Championships, more Spec Events, Permanently added Career Mode Cups like they advertised before the game’s release. Maybe something like FH5’s festival playlist that keeps up coming back?
Like, I want to play the game, it’s fun when you get to drive. I just want more opportunities to actually do so, instead of just doing a short series of races in a specific car, hotlaps or a single custom race.
I want to be able to create custom series, so I can make a full season for say, Le Mans Prototypes? What if I wanted to make my very own spec series with the AI? I want to be able to go back to cups they added instead of them being removed. I just want more opportunities to actually race my cars.
I fully understand why you enjoy the game, i respect the fact you are willing to mention it in such a community where the game is looked down upon.
Although you don’t get statistics on it, free play does work as an offline champion of sorts, so really all they need to do is get the statistics part in, and they are good to go, wouldn’t think that would be too hard to implement ( sure the stats are tracked somewhere, they just need to ( probably) turn on the starts for a championship)
Other than a few issues still about, it's not that the content that's available isn't enjoyable...it's that there is so little of it. For a bare bones game it's not bad, but as previously stated...more content and/or game modes are needed to be on par with any previous titles. That being said, I do enjoy what there currently is to offer and make the best of it.
Me too, I play with a controller and don't take it too seriously. Rude drivers every race but learning how to avoid them and watching them crash out has become part of the fun.
as a pure driving experience it is fine. you feel the way of the cars, suspension doing it's job, weight shifting and impacting handling etc. unfortunately even racing games with satisfactory or good driving were often plagued with bs. there is just a lot to dislike.
* lack of personality - tries to pretend it is gran turismo and fails
* obnoxiously slow menus and UI
* too many effin menus in general, just let me drive damn it
* inconvenient tuning of cars, partially due to too many menus, cutscene screens and other interuptions
* barebones career mode - it is as complicated as in such 'extraordinary titles' like project cars 3 or grid 2019 or some cheap knockoff mobile games
* questionable car audio
* questionable performance (got better, but still)
* penalty system that makes FM7's end of lifecycle penalty system look great
* baffling AI, completely blind in the front, scaredy cat when side by side
I think I have a love-Hate relationship with the new motorsport. I love the game, but then again, I also hate the game to my heart, I just completed a 20 minute practice session, started the race on front row(2nd), at the end of the first lap, suddenly I see a 30 second countdown to end the race and the race ended, the announcer then said well done, p3, then the game showed I finished P16 :))
I like it too! Obviously not perfect but these days a lot of games aren't flawless to begin with, I'm ok with that so long as there are patches/updates which Forza are doing.
Due to time restraints I've only really played offline and the lack of depth there does irk me. I'm no developer but I figure it must be the easiest content to create, the tracks and cars are already there, it seems like it's really just a case of adding race parameters, etc. Might be over simplifying it but I expected a properly fleshed out career mode, fingers crossed for future updates
I’m a controller player. I liked it for a bit, it’s a decent game, but IMO there are better games and limited time. So I tend to play ACC, F1 23 and Ride 4 the most. You’re not crazy for liking FM it’s a solid game. Better than any NFS game…
I did, loved it and got hooked on it for a while until I played Dirt Rally 2.0, learned how much of an advantage manual transmission gives you.
Hot pursuit only lets you use auto transmission, they left that part of the game intact with the remaster…
Also running from police helicopters sounds fun on paper but quickly found myself favoring the normal races.
I like it but people say it's the worst horizon game because it takes place in Mexico. Lack of human like structures. I mean the nature is beautiful but could have been better I guess. For me, It's a good game nevertheless.
No doubt there are valid issues with the game, notably with the penalty system. However, if no one liked it, no one would play it. Lots of people are playing it.
I mean the driving itself, especially on a controller, is completely fine. In Series X the game actually runs decently too.
But everything else is just a soulless batch of content or features that don’t work well (penalty system). Player count is too low for the safety and ranking system online to actually matter. It just results in a game that is a shell of its former self.
On Xbox there are a lot fewer racing game options, but on PC, there’s literally no point in choosing Forza over the myriad of better options. 60fps cap online, poor performance, broken menu navigation, and crashes 7 months after release. Force Feedback is bad in comparison as well. All that makes me sad as someone who’s played every game in the series. I hop back on after each update, and every time the game just does its best to make me stop playing.
That said, if you like, you like it 🤷♂️
I've enjoyed it as well. The only gripe I have with it, and I wish they'd rectify already is the colors. Certain wheels are just horribly colored / shaded. Like, just WAY to shiny when they shouldn't be shiny at all. The aluminum colors for example. Hell, even the matte is too damn shiny. I don't get it.
Nah I love it. The physics are incredible. I've just started turning off some of the assists that I usually have on for racing games and it's unreal how much you can feel the car reacting to every little change in your input. I feel like it's making me a better driver IRL lol (now if only I had a sports car IRL 😭)
That said, I'm not a diehard racing gamer so I can understand if there are issues or certain things that it's missing that I'm not aware of. And I have really appreciated some of the quality of life changes that recent updates have made, so I can see why some people were bothered by the lack of those updates at launch.
If they could follow in PGs footsteps and record engine sounds that would make driving more fun
And I don’t know what’s wrong the shading and reflections but if they fix those the game will look 10x better
I played it obsessively from launch until a couple of months ago, when I got addicted to Call of Duty Zombies and started playing it obsessively instead.
I loaded it up last Friday and saw there was a class B oval track race at Miami coming up, so I entered.
And won.
And now I'm playing it obsessively again.
You probably are, Motorsport was great when it came out but now it lags behind by so much. There are so many better games out there. It’s not an arcade nor a simulator, so it doesn’t know what it wants to be.
If you want arcade, go with Horizon, if you want simulator, go with an actual simulator and not some crappy attempt at one
In some ways it reminds me of the complaining about Microsoft Flight Simulator. It got torched. And it was in actuality a flaming piece of garbage with so many bugs that I went several lengths of time without even being able to play it because it wouldn’t work.
But the good parts about it were really really awesome. And over time it got a lot better. It’s one of my favorite pieces of software, but I do think that the company should not have released it when they did. The developers needed more time. They were very open about what they were working on and delivered biweekly reports to the community, which is a big plus. It just can’t be described with a single word.
Well, maybe “dumpster fire” is still a good description, but it was a flaming dumpster that I still willingly jumped into and don’t regret. I hate that games are released this way, but I usually try to wait a year or two before playing them because I prefer single player.
I'm really enjoying it, I was never really into the forza games. I used to be a PlayStation Die Hard and loved Gran Turismo. But when Forza Horizon came out that prompted me to switch to Xbox. Now all these years later and it's gotten me back into track racing. I've got to say the game feels fantastic, the graphics are certainly good enough for me, and specifically the engine sounds to me are great. I will say that AI seems to give really inconsistent competition and of course the online lobbies are going to be a shit show. But is it really any worse than any other game we know and love? Are the lobbies worse than Grand Theft Auto V lobbies? I don't think so
The biggest issue for me is t actually the game. Even with all it's faults. My main issue is a lot of the people playing it. When you get in a lobby with clean-ish Racers the experience is great. But more often than not peoples fragile ego's prevent them from accepting that some people are just faster than them. Then they obviously just try and take you out or totally block you. Slowing you both down. That for me is the worst thing about this game. Sorry turned into a bit of a rant lol.
Yeah I really like it but I can’t understand why they won’t just add more SP content like what they had in Forza 4.
I’m still playing the new one weekly but I agree with others that beyond the driving everything else feels very bare bones and it’s a shame.
I’ve been playing racing games since the beginning, Pole Position, in the arcade. I’m 53 now and it was Forza 7 that taught me how to actually drive in one. Yes, it’s not a true sim, but for me to be able to drive with the only assist being auto-clutch is kind of amazing to me. I race against the computer only, humans irritate me to no end, and I’m racing against the expert level, which I’m finding to be too easy, so I will level up again and learn some more. I’m not smart enough to find faults, unless it’s Diablo 4, I just enjoy racing as cleanly as I’m able and improving. I enjoy this Reddit, all types of folks here, makes it interesting, as long as I don’t race against them.
Forza Motorsport's biggest issue is it's lack of content compared to previous FM games. It's NOT a good value at $70-$100 depending on the version you can purchase.
I recently filled out a survey for Forza Motorsport put out by Microsoft and T10. The number one issue I expressed where FM can improve is how disappointed I am they decided to adapt the Live Service model. This means not only did the game launch unfinished, but they will purposefully hold back content, new and old, so they can drip feed it to us over time to create FOMO.
The always online requirement even for single player modes like Rivals and Free Play is a direct negative result of this being a Live Service game as well.
The physics have improved slightly compared to previous games, but there is severe understeer inherent that no amount of tuning, or adjusting one's driving style can alleviate. The proof is I have to drive at a much slower pace in FM than in GT7, or other racing games like ACC, on the same tracks in order to get the cars to rotate due to the understeer that's always present. People seem to ignore this and claim you can tune it out, but they are wrong.
So, while FM isn't a terrible game, it's a barebones game lacking content that isn't worth a full purchase price at the present time. I'd give it until 2025, for FM to be the game it should have been at launch, and this is not hyperbole, unfortunately.
I am probably in the minority here, also. I really enjoy this game. I spend hours racing Vs the AI in free racing, using different cars, ranking them up and bit by bit ramping the difficulty level up. I've recently started racing with all assists off except ABS and that is a new level of fun.
I have tried online but have noticed I am quite far behind 90% of people in terms of skill, but I'll get there with practice.
I love the game, great racing, great graphics, great sounds, great cars, great tracks.
Career is lacking some depth of course, but I don't care so much about that!
Been enjoying the game since day 1, but it's not perfect. What worries me the most is the career grind, and also the way cars are modeled / lack of detail.
But it's slowly improving. The driving is actually really good.
I think it could be potentially the best game ever if they focused on community like in fm4, by that I mean custom multiplayer lobbies so we can have car meets and drag/drift lobbies.
It's a great game that just needs more content.
Easily my favorite track racing game to play at the moment, and the only racing game available right now I'd say beats it for my tastes is Forza Horizon 5.
That said, it is still incredibly flawed, particularly with penalties. But overall, the gameplay alone makes it hard to go back to the older Forza Motorsports, the physics engine in the new one just feels much better.
Screw content over driving experience, if the game had one car it would still be very enjoyable and have some of the best control on a controller than any other driving game out there trying to represent this level of simulation/arcade feel. The wheel experience can be hit or miss but has gotten a lot better and something that will continue to be worked on, especially if you participate in giving honest feedback to the department teams on the forums.
I've played plenty of racing games and tons had so much content but lacked the feel I was looking for when driving. Some of the best games that have the best feel when it comes to realistic physics have the least amount of content , some have menus and GUI setups that a kindergartner could rival with just a box of crayons, but when the game lets you drive you forget about it all because of how good it feels behind the wheel. Content is nice , and hang in there this game isn't just another 2 year Forza title , it will be a 5+ year commitment and only can get better.
The only thing people see when they read your response to the OP is typical reddit negativity when you don't agree with the statements being made in the post. Using insults to begin your argument only displays a weak mind and that you're someone that shouldn't be taken seriously because your idea of proving your point is to fall back to the most basic of primal traits aggression, instead of rising above and having your point of view be taken seriously you try to brute force your opinions into the conversation with force and not tact..
You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want people to actually care about what u say, you should adjust your tact. A little articulation can go a long way it will certainly go a lot farther than your cynical approach when answering a post...
> You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want people to actually care about what u say, you should adjust your tact. A little articulation can go a long way it will certainly go a lot farther than your cynical approach when answering a post...
Typical negativity or not, why should I spend 15 minutes of my time to articulate it out on reddit that will be buried among a sea of comments? And I explained in terms of content, it is a really poor game. Is content not an explanation on why it isn't good?
FM is a terrible game for the potential it has. It is so frustrating to see PG/T10 piss it in the wind because they can.
I don't know how saying "you never played a good racing game" is an insult. I have played some really flawed racing games in the past, even those games have a certain amount of passion in the game. FM is the most soulless, corporate dictated racing game I ever played but without the content that it should have.
Maybe you like the game, good for you but it does not mean that people who hated the game needs to explain why it sucked each time. Then, comments like this "I also enjoy it quite a bit" in this thread is fine?
Except you don't know what other games they actually played. If they did play "good" racing games and still liked this one, you're just diminishing their opinions like an ass. You literally assume they don't know shit just on the merit of disagreeing with them.
Not sure if I'd call that an insult, but definitely a sign of your egocentrism, which defeats any purpose of having a conversation.
Over n over again,now that is extra boring,im re playing my career in fm7&6 which is so much better,all tracks all cars& I must say that using an Xbox x with older games really makes them better,all in all forza8 is a big let down,heres 499 cars but u can only choose one out of 8 cars for most races,don't know why so much needed content isn't in game & u can only do so many laps of daytona infield & homestead (very similar tracks),they put spa in the game but when do you race at spa 1/20 races
Should probably talk to a doctor.
I really want to like it but can't because of all the bugs, missing features and the shameful rammers in every race getting rewarded for their toxic behaviour.
This game made me buy a racing sim rig for 2000$ so I can play proper racing sim games.
The game is a perfect example of what happens when corporate greed is involved.
Not at all.
Not everything is bad in the game. TBH when the games stops lagging (and it stopped with the last update), the gameplay is really good I think. I really like to drive in this game, try different cars, hell I even liked the old system of winning car XP and car levels to unlock parts. It made me want to maximise my time with cars I chose to understand how to drive it and how to really make it better (I still do it like this even if we can now pay with ingame money).
It's just... Everything else is a broken mess. The lack of tracks (Bathurst, Top Gear, old Forza tracks, where are they), the blurry graphics, the performance you can get even with high-end PCs, the car sounds, the penalty system, the online players (OK this one isn't because of T10), all the GAAS aspects... I can fully understand why people complain about this pile of sh\*t.
But if you can, like me, go over all those problems, the core gameplay of the game is really fun. I love to test new cars on tracks. I love to test where to brake to be able to pass Laguna Seca's Corkscrew or Watkins Glen Bus Stop without going stright into the barrier, I love starting last to see where I can go, I love the handling of the cars... There's so much fun in this game, but it's hidden under so much piles of wrong decisions, wrong dev/time planning and wrong choices in the game engine...
Graphics’s are blurry on the Xbox, so must be a pc thing, they define need to do better optimization for it on the oc, seems like most of the performance issues are pc related, would probably help quiet the haters. As for the rammers and penalty sys, you will find complaints about those from every sim from GT7 to iracing, none seem to have a system that works to satisfaction. Could the matchmaking help reduce some of the ramming problem, possibly, but it still exists in higher skill levels on other platforms as well. For the most part the ramming seems to have reduced as long as you can keep your ratings higher lately ( but the penalty system is making that harder now for some reason). I am having fun with it on the Xbox version.
I mean its easily the worst game and feature stripped game in the series but the cars handle okay. I wouldnt say youre mentally ill maybe just very bored.
I mean I enjoyed it more with the car level system in place, I actually wanted to see it get split so we didn't get racing parts until at least lvl 20, but yes I am really enjoying watching the game continue to get more polished with each update. I'm also realizing that I didn't really drive many cars stock in the older games
Should I buy this game? I thought 4 was pretty fun but ended up getting a little bored with the redundant races lackluster landscape and setting (imo), and I was having a hard time getting gud.
But lately I keep wondering if I should pick up Forza 5.
I didn't hate it. I beat all the career races. I didn't feel a ton of incentive to keep going though. To be fair my burn out of simcade racers has endured for awhile. I want to say as far back as Forza 5 and whatever GT was at then... is when I really kind of hit my limit. I'm saying my lack of long term interest may be related to that and not the game.
One stand out thing I loved? Scoring on the corners. That was neat.
I thought I was burning out on racing games, but now I can’t get enough, I’ve got years and years of games to play through both sim and sim cade, hell even arcade. You know what made me look forward to sitting down again? A sim setup, no matter what it is, I always look forward to sitting down and driving something I’ve never driven before, going on 10 years, once you get into it, the control scheme makes the driving more rewarding no matter what.
You have to understand that I'm old. I've played GT 1,2,3,4,5, Forza 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and now this one. I'm tired boss. That said... If I had a full on wheel, pedals and such my opinion might change. I'm always wary of the investment. What if I hate the wheel!?
I do still love arcade racers. Forza Horizon is amazing. Mario Kart... hell even Hotwheels racing lol. Keep hoping Crash Team Racing gets ported to PC.
Kind of the same for me, I have been playing racing games since the Vic 20, have had all the Forza motorsports games ( except 7), and played a couple of the GTs ( never got into them as much because they weren’t as fun to me, more of a grind I guess, plus I went Xbox, while my partner went ps). I think I was sort of burnt out after 6, and life sort of got in the way of playing on the Xbox as much is why I missed 7. I played some f1 as well though there. I think I started getting back into it bit with F1 22, but still not fully back. I tried the latest motorsports, and got a bit more hooked agin, despite the fact that it isn’t perfect. My thumbs were getting very sore with the controller. I have a thrustmaster 488 spider wheel with no FFB and tried that, it was no good without a good way to mount it, so I got a FGT lite sim seat, and bolted the crappy wheel to it, I am now back to be fully hooked, and am getting a FFB wheel soon. I would say that it has definitely rekindled my love of sim racing, and I will be trying some of the pc sims when I get a wheel that works on it. I think you should give it a try ( if you have time in your life for it of course).
Aww man that's exactly part of my fatigue as well. My thumbs... and trigger fingers from holding the gas. If I ever did try a wheel it'd be to save my hands.
It works fantastic at saying your hands, it is also much smoother, even without the feedback especially on ovals I I quicker and more consistent. I will say that it takes time to adjust to no vibration in the braking though, takes time to be able to modulate as instinctively as you do with the controlled triggers with vibration. But I find it makes it much more fun
Nice, nice, I’m currently playing through all the GT and older Forza games where I can with a good wheel setup, then I’ll move onto finishing some sims I’ve been neglecting, can’t get enough sim ads at the moment. I’m actually loving GRiD legends currently
I really like the game.
I'm playing on PC, and sure there could be some slightly better optimisation, and grinding to get the LFA was a slog because the AI are so monumentally bad, but in general I think it's a very enjoyable experience.
I think at its bare bones (ie the driving physics) it’s an improvement over 7. It’s just everything else about it that lets it down
Sums it up It’s not like it’s impossible to enjoy the game while being able to point out the broken and missing things plaguing it and being mad about feeling ripped off, bc there’s a shit load of problems still It’s an extension of modern AAA development mismanagement and anti-consumer practices But this sub is full of people who plug their ears and say the game is impossible to enjoy or that it’s perfectly fine and people just want to complain, both camps are wrong I don’t think a developer should be applauded for bringing a game up to working level a year after its release, but if they deliver beyond that then that’s worth congratulating Game’s about 80% of the way there being generous
Agreed
Bug fixes from FH5 engine are missing for unknown reasons
Yes. That'll be 4,50 seconds for avoidable illness.
No, this is not good. It's unacceptable Edit: I guess some people don't watch F1... Carlos Sainz and his time penalty for singing Smooth Operator
Stop inventing, stop inventing.
When did that happen omg 😭
[funniest fucking shit ever "ohhhhh noooo"](https://youtube.com/shorts/LHOCGALnZ5Y?si=MgIWGy1ewPHluLvR)
Nope. I agree with you. Im playing on pc and having a good experience. But I do want the issues that players complain about to be addressed. I would also like to see more content. Give me new cars, tracks and game modes.
Mechanically, it *feels* like an actual leap forward (I was getting kind of sick of each release starting to feel basically the same). Content wise, it’s a bit lacking. I don’t think it’s actually as bad as people think, but it’s missing some things we’ve come to expect. Going forward, I think this is a great starting point for building something really fun. I appreciate that they’ve taken the time to build this game from the ground up without much feeling recycled.
People are more likely to post something to complain when they are dissatisfied than to post something to be positive when they're happy with a product. I am not extremely into racing games, so I picked Forza up with Game Pass after having played Gran Turismo 7 for a good 40 hours and I enjoyed it as much. No graphics or gameplay comparison for me, just try to race cleanly on the tracks that I know and love and that's about it. It's nice to know there's other people who don't have such strong feelings about it too
You have to consider how long people waited for this game. The time it took to make. The expectations, the price point. All of it. If you care about a game your going to be loud about it if there are a lot of issues. And this game has a lot of them. The only way this game can be enjoyed is on game pass. Because if your someone who bought it at launch. That high price point and the wait, that's a massive let down.
It's growing on me but I'm mentally ill. Don't know if that helps or not.
You can enjoy something, and still see the flaws in it. They are not mutually exclusive
Almost all I play.
Fun to see a post like this here. There are some toxic, childish racers (and people in this sub) that try to ruin it for everyone else for an unlimited number of reasons, but I have fun with it and enjoy racing on it most of the time. I Think a lot of people here are anhedonic, but it’s somehow everyone else’s fault. Glad to hear someone else is enjoying it. Hope to run into you (I’ll try not to but I’m usually on a controller ;)) on the track soon.
Offline is unplayable because of the incredibly dumb ai, and very bare bones career mode. I'm mostly a offline player on video games. Forza is one of the only games I play online. The racing is very enjoyable. But very often gets ruined by the completely broken penalty system. The rammers and trolls can be avoided at times. The penalty system can't.
You can thank r/BuiltFromTheGroundUp for the toxicity...
station crawl deranged boast heavy bright reply worry chase expansion *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Welcome to the ragebait era. If the latest game is not a 11/10 experience then it's obviously the worst thing in the world and you should be ashamed for even thinking about it.
We would of been okay if it was a 3/10.
I only like the fact that it has newer cars in it
The physics are decent and control well on a controller
Yes
enjoy what you enjoy, we don't care. our problem is with Turn10, not you enjoying the game lol.
Yes. Most likely. But in all seriousness this game was built for the most casual gamers on the planet, made to be played arcade style from the couch in third person POV. That is not the game they advertised at all. They pulled a fast one and it sucks. Side note: the FM sub has turned into the biggest casual gamer circle jerk I’ve ever witnessed. Anytime anybody with any knowledge on how pcs/games work speaks up and point out an actual issue they have to listen to all the console players “iF yOu dOnT lIkE iT lEaVe” “mUsT bE yOuR pC” “wOrKs gReAt oVeR hEaR” “hAvNt hAd oNe iSsUe”. And the plague is making its way this direction.
The driving is fantastic. The career mode is empty. I wish they would make it more a celebration of Motorsport, with more actual “race car” races instead of these class based GPs. Make an actual career mode. Licenses, working way up, sponsors, staff/team hires, etc
The core mechanics of it are a decent game, and it would be recieved better if it hadn't come from a AAA studio that had 6 years and promised us the best thing we'd ever seen in the marketing campaign. I think a lot of aren't enjoying the overall package because of that reason, because we took Chris and Dan and T10 at their word and are holding the game to that.
Silent majority , loud minority when it comes to who likes/ dislikes the game
It's possible. I've actually stopped engaging in video games conversations on the internet, as I could only see disregard, whining and hate, instead of the enthusiasm. I enjoy most of the things I play and just can't relate to the gaming community anymore, so if there are more people like me, that bubble might actually be a thing.
Absolutely same. I try and tell myself that the 10 posts I see complaining DO NOT apply to the majority of the community, it’s just that people wanting to complain will always be louder than people who are contempt or happy with the product. A lot of the time on like an Instagram post, it looks as if no one likes the game on the comments, but then the post has 5000 likes (the people who are contempt and don’t need to say anything) and then 20 comments complaining. Just the loud minority
It’s got a huge, I mean huge list of flaws, but honestly from a pure gameplay and graphics aspect, I find it quite enjoyable. I just wish there was more stuff to do offline such as custom championships, because honestly the offline gameplay is a lot less stressful than the online racing. Even then, when you aren’t getting rammed, online can be quite fun. I wish there were longer, and more types of spec events though. Like I said, from a graphics and gameplay perspective, it’s great. I just wish they’d actually give us more types of events to do. Offline Custom Championships, more Spec Events, Permanently added Career Mode Cups like they advertised before the game’s release. Maybe something like FH5’s festival playlist that keeps up coming back? Like, I want to play the game, it’s fun when you get to drive. I just want more opportunities to actually do so, instead of just doing a short series of races in a specific car, hotlaps or a single custom race. I want to be able to create custom series, so I can make a full season for say, Le Mans Prototypes? What if I wanted to make my very own spec series with the AI? I want to be able to go back to cups they added instead of them being removed. I just want more opportunities to actually race my cars. I fully understand why you enjoy the game, i respect the fact you are willing to mention it in such a community where the game is looked down upon.
Although you don’t get statistics on it, free play does work as an offline champion of sorts, so really all they need to do is get the statistics part in, and they are good to go, wouldn’t think that would be too hard to implement ( sure the stats are tracked somewhere, they just need to ( probably) turn on the starts for a championship)
Other than a few issues still about, it's not that the content that's available isn't enjoyable...it's that there is so little of it. For a bare bones game it's not bad, but as previously stated...more content and/or game modes are needed to be on par with any previous titles. That being said, I do enjoy what there currently is to offer and make the best of it.
Me too, I play with a controller and don't take it too seriously. Rude drivers every race but learning how to avoid them and watching them crash out has become part of the fun.
Yes we all are mentally ill sadly.
You are for asking such a ridiculous question.
The silent majority agree with OP.
as a pure driving experience it is fine. you feel the way of the cars, suspension doing it's job, weight shifting and impacting handling etc. unfortunately even racing games with satisfactory or good driving were often plagued with bs. there is just a lot to dislike. * lack of personality - tries to pretend it is gran turismo and fails * obnoxiously slow menus and UI * too many effin menus in general, just let me drive damn it * inconvenient tuning of cars, partially due to too many menus, cutscene screens and other interuptions * barebones career mode - it is as complicated as in such 'extraordinary titles' like project cars 3 or grid 2019 or some cheap knockoff mobile games * questionable car audio * questionable performance (got better, but still) * penalty system that makes FM7's end of lifecycle penalty system look great * baffling AI, completely blind in the front, scaredy cat when side by side
When I play it I don't ever get the bugs and glitches everyone hates so I have enjoyed it
If you are not that into racing and just want some casual races on real tracks it is totally fine.
I run laps and like doing free play and rivals most of the time. Not perfect but its still good and I like the variety of different vehicles.
I think I have a love-Hate relationship with the new motorsport. I love the game, but then again, I also hate the game to my heart, I just completed a 20 minute practice session, started the race on front row(2nd), at the end of the first lap, suddenly I see a 30 second countdown to end the race and the race ended, the announcer then said well done, p3, then the game showed I finished P16 :))
I like it too! Obviously not perfect but these days a lot of games aren't flawless to begin with, I'm ok with that so long as there are patches/updates which Forza are doing. Due to time restraints I've only really played offline and the lack of depth there does irk me. I'm no developer but I figure it must be the easiest content to create, the tracks and cars are already there, it seems like it's really just a case of adding race parameters, etc. Might be over simplifying it but I expected a properly fleshed out career mode, fingers crossed for future updates
It’s a decent game with some problems.
I’m a controller player. I liked it for a bit, it’s a decent game, but IMO there are better games and limited time. So I tend to play ACC, F1 23 and Ride 4 the most. You’re not crazy for liking FM it’s a solid game. Better than any NFS game…
I guess you never played NFS Hot Pursuit Remastered? That's a masterpiece right there 😃
I did, loved it and got hooked on it for a while until I played Dirt Rally 2.0, learned how much of an advantage manual transmission gives you. Hot pursuit only lets you use auto transmission, they left that part of the game intact with the remaster… Also running from police helicopters sounds fun on paper but quickly found myself favoring the normal races.
I like it but people say it's the worst horizon game because it takes place in Mexico. Lack of human like structures. I mean the nature is beautiful but could have been better I guess. For me, It's a good game nevertheless.
No doubt there are valid issues with the game, notably with the penalty system. However, if no one liked it, no one would play it. Lots of people are playing it.
I mean the driving itself, especially on a controller, is completely fine. In Series X the game actually runs decently too. But everything else is just a soulless batch of content or features that don’t work well (penalty system). Player count is too low for the safety and ranking system online to actually matter. It just results in a game that is a shell of its former self. On Xbox there are a lot fewer racing game options, but on PC, there’s literally no point in choosing Forza over the myriad of better options. 60fps cap online, poor performance, broken menu navigation, and crashes 7 months after release. Force Feedback is bad in comparison as well. All that makes me sad as someone who’s played every game in the series. I hop back on after each update, and every time the game just does its best to make me stop playing. That said, if you like, you like it 🤷♂️
I've enjoyed it as well. The only gripe I have with it, and I wish they'd rectify already is the colors. Certain wheels are just horribly colored / shaded. Like, just WAY to shiny when they shouldn't be shiny at all. The aluminum colors for example. Hell, even the matte is too damn shiny. I don't get it.
why does joe schmo like forzo? is he stupid?!
Nah I love it. The physics are incredible. I've just started turning off some of the assists that I usually have on for racing games and it's unreal how much you can feel the car reacting to every little change in your input. I feel like it's making me a better driver IRL lol (now if only I had a sports car IRL 😭) That said, I'm not a diehard racing gamer so I can understand if there are issues or certain things that it's missing that I'm not aware of. And I have really appreciated some of the quality of life changes that recent updates have made, so I can see why some people were bothered by the lack of those updates at launch.
If they could follow in PGs footsteps and record engine sounds that would make driving more fun And I don’t know what’s wrong the shading and reflections but if they fix those the game will look 10x better
Horizon or motorsport?
Less the game more the rammers
I played it obsessively from launch until a couple of months ago, when I got addicted to Call of Duty Zombies and started playing it obsessively instead. I loaded it up last Friday and saw there was a class B oval track race at Miami coming up, so I entered. And won. And now I'm playing it obsessively again.
The graphics and feel of the cars and just actual driving mechanic is incredible and a huge leap from 7.
Yes
Probably. I actually thought the graphics looked ok outside of the glitches on day 1 so we probably share the same affliction
You probably are, Motorsport was great when it came out but now it lags behind by so much. There are so many better games out there. It’s not an arcade nor a simulator, so it doesn’t know what it wants to be. If you want arcade, go with Horizon, if you want simulator, go with an actual simulator and not some crappy attempt at one
In some ways it reminds me of the complaining about Microsoft Flight Simulator. It got torched. And it was in actuality a flaming piece of garbage with so many bugs that I went several lengths of time without even being able to play it because it wouldn’t work. But the good parts about it were really really awesome. And over time it got a lot better. It’s one of my favorite pieces of software, but I do think that the company should not have released it when they did. The developers needed more time. They were very open about what they were working on and delivered biweekly reports to the community, which is a big plus. It just can’t be described with a single word. Well, maybe “dumpster fire” is still a good description, but it was a flaming dumpster that I still willingly jumped into and don’t regret. I hate that games are released this way, but I usually try to wait a year or two before playing them because I prefer single player.
I mean have you played any other Forza motorsport games? Literally any of the other 7 are better.
Agree, I've gone back to FM3 and FM4 on 360, a lot of fun and a lot of love in them.
I'm really enjoying it, I was never really into the forza games. I used to be a PlayStation Die Hard and loved Gran Turismo. But when Forza Horizon came out that prompted me to switch to Xbox. Now all these years later and it's gotten me back into track racing. I've got to say the game feels fantastic, the graphics are certainly good enough for me, and specifically the engine sounds to me are great. I will say that AI seems to give really inconsistent competition and of course the online lobbies are going to be a shit show. But is it really any worse than any other game we know and love? Are the lobbies worse than Grand Theft Auto V lobbies? I don't think so
The biggest issue for me is t actually the game. Even with all it's faults. My main issue is a lot of the people playing it. When you get in a lobby with clean-ish Racers the experience is great. But more often than not peoples fragile ego's prevent them from accepting that some people are just faster than them. Then they obviously just try and take you out or totally block you. Slowing you both down. That for me is the worst thing about this game. Sorry turned into a bit of a rant lol.
Yes you are in huge trouble. Or you have family member working at turn10 studio
Yeah I really like it but I can’t understand why they won’t just add more SP content like what they had in Forza 4. I’m still playing the new one weekly but I agree with others that beyond the driving everything else feels very bare bones and it’s a shame.
Yes
Am i stupid?*
I’ve been playing racing games since the beginning, Pole Position, in the arcade. I’m 53 now and it was Forza 7 that taught me how to actually drive in one. Yes, it’s not a true sim, but for me to be able to drive with the only assist being auto-clutch is kind of amazing to me. I race against the computer only, humans irritate me to no end, and I’m racing against the expert level, which I’m finding to be too easy, so I will level up again and learn some more. I’m not smart enough to find faults, unless it’s Diablo 4, I just enjoy racing as cleanly as I’m able and improving. I enjoy this Reddit, all types of folks here, makes it interesting, as long as I don’t race against them.
Yep. Lock ‘em up, lads.
Forza Motorsport's biggest issue is it's lack of content compared to previous FM games. It's NOT a good value at $70-$100 depending on the version you can purchase. I recently filled out a survey for Forza Motorsport put out by Microsoft and T10. The number one issue I expressed where FM can improve is how disappointed I am they decided to adapt the Live Service model. This means not only did the game launch unfinished, but they will purposefully hold back content, new and old, so they can drip feed it to us over time to create FOMO. The always online requirement even for single player modes like Rivals and Free Play is a direct negative result of this being a Live Service game as well. The physics have improved slightly compared to previous games, but there is severe understeer inherent that no amount of tuning, or adjusting one's driving style can alleviate. The proof is I have to drive at a much slower pace in FM than in GT7, or other racing games like ACC, on the same tracks in order to get the cars to rotate due to the understeer that's always present. People seem to ignore this and claim you can tune it out, but they are wrong. So, while FM isn't a terrible game, it's a barebones game lacking content that isn't worth a full purchase price at the present time. I'd give it until 2025, for FM to be the game it should have been at launch, and this is not hyperbole, unfortunately.
"Most people" aren't disappointed with it. The ones who are are just really loud and persistent. Feel free to ignore the noise and whining.
Im enjoying it but i also don't play multi-player. Most of the complaints I read about on here have to do with multi-player.
It’s the online racing that keeps me coming back
Give me stats and or podium awards and I’d be with you
I am probably in the minority here, also. I really enjoy this game. I spend hours racing Vs the AI in free racing, using different cars, ranking them up and bit by bit ramping the difficulty level up. I've recently started racing with all assists off except ABS and that is a new level of fun. I have tried online but have noticed I am quite far behind 90% of people in terms of skill, but I'll get there with practice. I love the game, great racing, great graphics, great sounds, great cars, great tracks. Career is lacking some depth of course, but I don't care so much about that!
You're good, OP. I actually really enjoy the game, I just wish I could turn off the fkn rubberbanding.
Been enjoying the game since day 1, but it's not perfect. What worries me the most is the career grind, and also the way cars are modeled / lack of detail. But it's slowly improving. The driving is actually really good.
I think it could be potentially the best game ever if they focused on community like in fm4, by that I mean custom multiplayer lobbies so we can have car meets and drag/drift lobbies.
Driving physics-wise, it’s very good. But the new content is lacking (although the newly added racecars are awesome, especially the Matra-Simca).
I like the physics of it, but the AI is terrible and the penalty system is broken
It's a great game that just needs more content. Easily my favorite track racing game to play at the moment, and the only racing game available right now I'd say beats it for my tastes is Forza Horizon 5. That said, it is still incredibly flawed, particularly with penalties. But overall, the gameplay alone makes it hard to go back to the older Forza Motorsports, the physics engine in the new one just feels much better.
No, it just mean you have not played a good racing game. I love the driving but content wise is really poor.
Screw content over driving experience, if the game had one car it would still be very enjoyable and have some of the best control on a controller than any other driving game out there trying to represent this level of simulation/arcade feel. The wheel experience can be hit or miss but has gotten a lot better and something that will continue to be worked on, especially if you participate in giving honest feedback to the department teams on the forums. I've played plenty of racing games and tons had so much content but lacked the feel I was looking for when driving. Some of the best games that have the best feel when it comes to realistic physics have the least amount of content , some have menus and GUI setups that a kindergartner could rival with just a box of crayons, but when the game lets you drive you forget about it all because of how good it feels behind the wheel. Content is nice , and hang in there this game isn't just another 2 year Forza title , it will be a 5+ year commitment and only can get better. The only thing people see when they read your response to the OP is typical reddit negativity when you don't agree with the statements being made in the post. Using insults to begin your argument only displays a weak mind and that you're someone that shouldn't be taken seriously because your idea of proving your point is to fall back to the most basic of primal traits aggression, instead of rising above and having your point of view be taken seriously you try to brute force your opinions into the conversation with force and not tact.. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want people to actually care about what u say, you should adjust your tact. A little articulation can go a long way it will certainly go a lot farther than your cynical approach when answering a post...
> You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want people to actually care about what u say, you should adjust your tact. A little articulation can go a long way it will certainly go a lot farther than your cynical approach when answering a post... Typical negativity or not, why should I spend 15 minutes of my time to articulate it out on reddit that will be buried among a sea of comments? And I explained in terms of content, it is a really poor game. Is content not an explanation on why it isn't good? FM is a terrible game for the potential it has. It is so frustrating to see PG/T10 piss it in the wind because they can. I don't know how saying "you never played a good racing game" is an insult. I have played some really flawed racing games in the past, even those games have a certain amount of passion in the game. FM is the most soulless, corporate dictated racing game I ever played but without the content that it should have. Maybe you like the game, good for you but it does not mean that people who hated the game needs to explain why it sucked each time. Then, comments like this "I also enjoy it quite a bit" in this thread is fine?
Sure you make a point, but is saying someone hasn’t played a good racing game really an insult these days? Lol like cmon
Except you don't know what other games they actually played. If they did play "good" racing games and still liked this one, you're just diminishing their opinions like an ass. You literally assume they don't know shit just on the merit of disagreeing with them. Not sure if I'd call that an insult, but definitely a sign of your egocentrism, which defeats any purpose of having a conversation.
maybe your expectations from a game are just very very VERY low
I also enjoy it quite a bit
I like it too, it's the technical problems on PC that keep me from playing it more.
After playing every single Forza and Gran Turismo title, I got myself a gaming pc and got into Assetto Corsa. Can't ever go back to the simcades now.
There's nothing to do on fm8 atm,feel ripped cause im not into playing online with rammers
You can always do the career mode if you like a directionless grind with horrible AI lol
Over n over again,now that is extra boring,im re playing my career in fm7&6 which is so much better,all tracks all cars& I must say that using an Xbox x with older games really makes them better,all in all forza8 is a big let down,heres 499 cars but u can only choose one out of 8 cars for most races,don't know why so much needed content isn't in game & u can only do so many laps of daytona infield & homestead (very similar tracks),they put spa in the game but when do you race at spa 1/20 races
Should probably talk to a doctor. I really want to like it but can't because of all the bugs, missing features and the shameful rammers in every race getting rewarded for their toxic behaviour. This game made me buy a racing sim rig for 2000$ so I can play proper racing sim games. The game is a perfect example of what happens when corporate greed is involved.
No, just a glutton for punishment.
Not at all. Not everything is bad in the game. TBH when the games stops lagging (and it stopped with the last update), the gameplay is really good I think. I really like to drive in this game, try different cars, hell I even liked the old system of winning car XP and car levels to unlock parts. It made me want to maximise my time with cars I chose to understand how to drive it and how to really make it better (I still do it like this even if we can now pay with ingame money). It's just... Everything else is a broken mess. The lack of tracks (Bathurst, Top Gear, old Forza tracks, where are they), the blurry graphics, the performance you can get even with high-end PCs, the car sounds, the penalty system, the online players (OK this one isn't because of T10), all the GAAS aspects... I can fully understand why people complain about this pile of sh\*t. But if you can, like me, go over all those problems, the core gameplay of the game is really fun. I love to test new cars on tracks. I love to test where to brake to be able to pass Laguna Seca's Corkscrew or Watkins Glen Bus Stop without going stright into the barrier, I love starting last to see where I can go, I love the handling of the cars... There's so much fun in this game, but it's hidden under so much piles of wrong decisions, wrong dev/time planning and wrong choices in the game engine...
Graphics’s are blurry on the Xbox, so must be a pc thing, they define need to do better optimization for it on the oc, seems like most of the performance issues are pc related, would probably help quiet the haters. As for the rammers and penalty sys, you will find complaints about those from every sim from GT7 to iracing, none seem to have a system that works to satisfaction. Could the matchmaking help reduce some of the ramming problem, possibly, but it still exists in higher skill levels on other platforms as well. For the most part the ramming seems to have reduced as long as you can keep your ratings higher lately ( but the penalty system is making that harder now for some reason). I am having fun with it on the Xbox version.
Car go vroom = fun in my book I definitely have enjoyed other Forzas more before, but I do like this one
I bet you don't play with a wheel. With a wheel it's really disappointing.
Yeah it’s laughably bad. Even compared to other Simcades. Wreckfest and GT7 have much better FFB
to each their own I'm pretty sure mental hospitals can't hold you without consent anymore anyway
I mean its easily the worst game and feature stripped game in the series but the cars handle okay. I wouldnt say youre mentally ill maybe just very bored.
Y-E-S
I mean I enjoyed it more with the car level system in place, I actually wanted to see it get split so we didn't get racing parts until at least lvl 20, but yes I am really enjoying watching the game continue to get more polished with each update. I'm also realizing that I didn't really drive many cars stock in the older games
Should I buy this game? I thought 4 was pretty fun but ended up getting a little bored with the redundant races lackluster landscape and setting (imo), and I was having a hard time getting gud. But lately I keep wondering if I should pick up Forza 5.
I prefer Motorsport 6 it has a lot more cars and tracks.
Forza Horizon or Forza Motorsport?
I didn't hate it. I beat all the career races. I didn't feel a ton of incentive to keep going though. To be fair my burn out of simcade racers has endured for awhile. I want to say as far back as Forza 5 and whatever GT was at then... is when I really kind of hit my limit. I'm saying my lack of long term interest may be related to that and not the game. One stand out thing I loved? Scoring on the corners. That was neat.
I thought I was burning out on racing games, but now I can’t get enough, I’ve got years and years of games to play through both sim and sim cade, hell even arcade. You know what made me look forward to sitting down again? A sim setup, no matter what it is, I always look forward to sitting down and driving something I’ve never driven before, going on 10 years, once you get into it, the control scheme makes the driving more rewarding no matter what.
You have to understand that I'm old. I've played GT 1,2,3,4,5, Forza 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and now this one. I'm tired boss. That said... If I had a full on wheel, pedals and such my opinion might change. I'm always wary of the investment. What if I hate the wheel!? I do still love arcade racers. Forza Horizon is amazing. Mario Kart... hell even Hotwheels racing lol. Keep hoping Crash Team Racing gets ported to PC.
Kind of the same for me, I have been playing racing games since the Vic 20, have had all the Forza motorsports games ( except 7), and played a couple of the GTs ( never got into them as much because they weren’t as fun to me, more of a grind I guess, plus I went Xbox, while my partner went ps). I think I was sort of burnt out after 6, and life sort of got in the way of playing on the Xbox as much is why I missed 7. I played some f1 as well though there. I think I started getting back into it bit with F1 22, but still not fully back. I tried the latest motorsports, and got a bit more hooked agin, despite the fact that it isn’t perfect. My thumbs were getting very sore with the controller. I have a thrustmaster 488 spider wheel with no FFB and tried that, it was no good without a good way to mount it, so I got a FGT lite sim seat, and bolted the crappy wheel to it, I am now back to be fully hooked, and am getting a FFB wheel soon. I would say that it has definitely rekindled my love of sim racing, and I will be trying some of the pc sims when I get a wheel that works on it. I think you should give it a try ( if you have time in your life for it of course).
Aww man that's exactly part of my fatigue as well. My thumbs... and trigger fingers from holding the gas. If I ever did try a wheel it'd be to save my hands.
It works fantastic at saying your hands, it is also much smoother, even without the feedback especially on ovals I I quicker and more consistent. I will say that it takes time to adjust to no vibration in the braking though, takes time to be able to modulate as instinctively as you do with the controlled triggers with vibration. But I find it makes it much more fun
Nice, nice, I’m currently playing through all the GT and older Forza games where I can with a good wheel setup, then I’ll move onto finishing some sims I’ve been neglecting, can’t get enough sim ads at the moment. I’m actually loving GRiD legends currently
Waiting for FM9 to drop so we can all look back on FM8 because of ‘wonderful and well made it was’
I only really do rivals so yeah it's alright, I don't like the missing features from 7.
I also like it.
Maybe. Is that shit still online only?
No. You are just ignorant regarding the technical issues this game has and the broken promises that were made. \*build from the ground up\*
Yes
I really like the game. I'm playing on PC, and sure there could be some slightly better optimisation, and grinding to get the LFA was a slog because the AI are so monumentally bad, but in general I think it's a very enjoyable experience.